I think dockside is a good representative for a broader problem in card design, and that's the overdependance on artifacts as ramp. If land ramp weren't an exclusively green thing, and was spread throughout the color pie, we'd see fewer signets and talismans, and less fuel for the dockside engine. Personally, I think it would be an oversight to not include treasure hate in your commander decks right now, but that's just me.
@@thetrinketmage Leyline of Singularity should see more play in general, it's hilarious. Karaki's war Mage, March of the machines, Karn, Silver Golem, Maelstrom Pulse, viridian Revel. I think the only color that would really struggle with this might be mono black.
yeah, having pther colors ramp but with some sort of restriction would be a change id like to see, white can stay the way as it is, or maybe get more enchantment based ramp, maybe red could have aggresive low cost creature that get a one time combat damage trigger that ramps, maybe blue could have something with spells, like if you cast 3 or more spells this turn or something, and maybe black could have a death trigger that only triggers once, and then just keep green at unconditional ramp
The card is not just a mere stax piece it does not only hate on artifacts and enchantments it's a combo piece and a ritual on a stick that gets abused over and over again. It invalidates cards like blood moon, back to basics, winter orb that don't see any real play thanks to the game warping effects dockside has on the game/format as a whole. The card is problematic and warrants a banning for cEDH reasons that I've outlined anyone who disagrees is wrong and does not understand what game balance or design is.
I have a copy that I was going to throw in Brudiclad, whenever I get around to building it, just because it produces a ton of tokens. As for banning it, I'm sure once someone on the rules committee gets tired of losing to a deck running it, they'll ban it.
Yeah, I think WOTC is at the point is that they want to keep cards from being banned and reprinting them because to hold the value for their product. For example Dockside Extortionist, the One Ring (One Ring is now declared "Evergreen") and more. They know when the card is good just because it is good and manipulate the printing, well I cannot blame them because they gotta make bank in some way otherwise it will worsen their company value (Which is bad currently because of all of the stuff recently). But I dislike instead of having healthy, more gradual and disperse cards which can punish interestingly broken behaviors or avoiding them of happening in the color pie, or banning the cards which are the biggest perpretrators of it that they just print a one broken card that will shoot it's price super high because it counters that bad behavior, thus creating another one. Commander is a social format, but they need to understand there are three audiences in commander. The strangers at LGS, the group of friends and the CEDH, and still excluding each type of player there is (Flavorful, Jank, Combo...). LGS groups have a real time struggling to regulate each other because the banning list is way too open which can lead to bad moments even if people discuss beforehand, group of friends can gather and talk and CEDH is it's own beast. I think it is fair because of how the game is huge to separate at least the casual and the CEDH or some type of new fan made format spark up now. (I want to one day try to make something to add to the commander format, which helps in gameplay people be able to do something to balance against the person who is popping off. But it will be an addon to the format like Planechase, so people will not need to change their decks.)
I run dockside in every deck with red hoenslty. It's LITELRY so good, and I really care about goblin synergies I sacrifice this guy and reanimate him so many times over for literly all the treasure
Rhystic study. That card is just so annoying to keep track of. A casual player like myself just can't keep up. MTGO notifies but in RL people try to hide it all the time.
Dockside is 100% the most busted card in the format right now. I'm so sick of seeing it. It makes so many win cons too easy to achieve and creates overwhelming value for nothing at all.
Insane ramp also. Having 10+ mana turn 2. Especially for a 2 drop, it's ridiculous, AND it's saturating the format. Pretty much every deck that runs red 🙄
You just described the format itself. Range of motion. That's the design of commander in the first place, kind of ironic to shit on one card that defines the difference between commander and all other formats, especially considering Dockside IS banned in 11 of the 14 main formats. Own it.
wtf are you talking about? There is sol ring, mana crypt, arcane signet, smothering tithe, mana vault, tailsman. Dockside is not needed for the game and it is not healthy for the game, "if you don’t like it counter it." that is not an argument
the card is busted and frankly hard to not go off with... its a great choice for a ban i think even besides the fact that along with pretty much all the others goblins in magic, its a disgusting antisemitic caricature
Banned? Lol. No. Yes it can go infinite but its too easy to stop. Also ive had a fatal 4 way where i only get a couple treasures on plenty of occasions. Def wouldn't ban this one.
It’s not just that it can go infinite but dockside is the best creature overall. It provides resources in a way nothing else does and the whole game warps when the card comes into play because it becomes all about blinking and cloning it. If it was just a combo piece I wouldn’t think it needs to be banned either
@@thetrinketmage Oh don't get me wrong. It has disgusting potential. Id say it's definitely top 5 non-legendary creatures (only because hullbreacher is banned in commander 🙌) but I can't honestly say its the best creature. Like most creatures in magic, its entirely situational. I've literally had a fatal 4 way where I had Dockside in hand but couldn't play it until like turn 9 or 10 just to have it make 2 treasures. Which btw, thanks to debatably the most OP non-legendary creature in my opinion, Hullbreaker Horror, I didn't even get to see hit the floor.
@@thetrinketmage Hullbreaker is putrid. Flash, can't be canceled, and can return anything, spell or nonland, to its owners hand for the price of a brainstorm, thrill of possibility, hell even a lotus petal or a tormods crypt. It makes cancels that can't be canceled not work if that says anything. And if Rite of Replicated its literally Game Over lol.
I like the idea in theory but without mana rocks non green decks will fall way to far behind so every most decks will run some. And if each opponent has 2 rocks dockside is still -4 mana which is enough for many loops
gotta love that just playing two of the five available permanent types constitutes being "greedy". Dockside isn't busted, people should simply only run lands and creatures, yes, very smart.
@@thetrinketmagethis card is what gives mono red decks a legit chance against faster blue decks. It’s an interesting card and it keeps red relevant in the meta. You play stacks I’m surprised you have such a hard stance against it. Love your videos but I really disagree with you here
This aged well ..
One of my fondest memories is, when a friend played his dockside, created a huge amounts of treasures and I played Bane of Progress next turn
It is done.
Everytime I draw this card, there is like one artifact on the battlefield :D
It can happen… but honestly it’s few and far between
skill issue.
Hold onto it it can be game winning later on in the game. Unfortunate nonetheless.
This was Prophetic
I think dockside is a good representative for a broader problem in card design, and that's the overdependance on artifacts as ramp.
If land ramp weren't an exclusively green thing, and was spread throughout the color pie, we'd see fewer signets and talismans, and less fuel for the dockside engine.
Personally, I think it would be an oversight to not include treasure hate in your commander decks right now, but that's just me.
I think treasure hate is still a meta call. If your meta has a lot of green it might no do enough. What are your favorite treasure hate cards?
@@thetrinketmage Leyline of Singularity should see more play in general, it's hilarious. Karaki's war Mage, March of the machines, Karn, Silver Golem, Maelstrom Pulse, viridian Revel. I think the only color that would really struggle with this might be mono black.
@@samuelhowarth9994 great choices
Those are some good choices! Honestly I’ve been thinking about making a video about Singularity for a whole that cards is hype
yeah, having pther colors ramp but with some sort of restriction would be a change id like to see, white can stay the way as it is, or maybe get more enchantment based ramp, maybe red could have aggresive low cost creature that get a one time combat damage trigger that ramps, maybe blue could have something with spells, like if you cast 3 or more spells this turn or something, and maybe black could have a death trigger that only triggers once, and then just keep green at unconditional ramp
The card is not just a mere stax piece it does not only hate on artifacts and enchantments it's a combo piece and a ritual on a stick that gets abused over and over again. It invalidates cards like blood moon, back to basics, winter orb that don't see any real play thanks to the game warping effects dockside has on the game/format as a whole. The card is problematic and warrants a banning for cEDH reasons that I've outlined anyone who disagrees is wrong and does not understand what game balance or design is.
Boy, I have a surprise for you
Love the content you've been putting out - Dockside Gunn
I have a copy that I was going to throw in Brudiclad, whenever I get around to building it, just because it produces a ton of tokens. As for banning it, I'm sure once someone on the rules committee gets tired of losing to a deck running it, they'll ban it.
Yeah, I think WOTC is at the point is that they want to keep cards from being banned and reprinting them because to hold the value for their product. For example Dockside Extortionist, the One Ring (One Ring is now declared "Evergreen") and more. They know when the card is good just because it is good and manipulate the printing, well I cannot blame them because they gotta make bank in some way otherwise it will worsen their company value (Which is bad currently because of all of the stuff recently). But I dislike instead of having healthy, more gradual and disperse cards which can punish interestingly broken behaviors or avoiding them of happening in the color pie, or banning the cards which are the biggest perpretrators of it that they just print a one broken card that will shoot it's price super high because it counters that bad behavior, thus creating another one. Commander is a social format, but they need to understand there are three audiences in commander. The strangers at LGS, the group of friends and the CEDH, and still excluding each type of player there is (Flavorful, Jank, Combo...). LGS groups have a real time struggling to regulate each other because the banning list is way too open which can lead to bad moments even if people discuss beforehand, group of friends can gather and talk and CEDH is it's own beast. I think it is fair because of how the game is huge to separate at least the casual and the CEDH or some type of new fan made format spark up now. (I want to one day try to make something to add to the commander format, which helps in gameplay people be able to do something to balance against the person who is popping off. But it will be an addon to the format like Planechase, so people will not need to change their decks.)
I run dockside in every deck with red hoenslty. It's LITELRY so good, and I really care about goblin synergies
I sacrifice this guy and reanimate him so many times over for literly all the treasure
Rhystic study. That card is just so annoying to keep track of. A casual player like myself just can't keep up. MTGO notifies but in RL people try to hide it all the time.
Dockside is 100% the most busted card in the format right now. I'm so sick of seeing it. It makes so many win cons too easy to achieve and creates overwhelming value for nothing at all.
Insane ramp also. Having 10+ mana turn 2. Especially for a 2 drop, it's ridiculous, AND it's saturating the format. Pretty much every deck that runs red 🙄
@@Kage999 you’re literally a worse deck if you don’t run red because of this card. 100% needs banning.
What about Thoracle?
You just described the format itself. Range of motion. That's the design of commander in the first place, kind of ironic to shit on one card that defines the difference between commander and all other formats, especially considering Dockside IS banned in 11 of the 14 main formats. Own it.
❤
Trinket mage just mad that he ain't as good as a creature lmao
(jk, I agree)
ding ding ding
Agreeeeeee (me never playing red so this dosent effect me)
Dockside is way too good... I think it should go!
There isn’t any good reason to ban dockside but I would say there is reasons why it could be banned.
Man this sucks now 🤣🤣
God forbid non green decks get a little ramp if you don’t like it counter it.
wtf are you talking about?
There is sol ring, mana crypt, arcane signet, smothering tithe, mana vault, tailsman.
Dockside is not needed for the game and it is not healthy for the game, "if you don’t like it counter it." that is not an argument
Yes put my dockside in the graveyard exactly where I want it (rubs hands) -a rakdos player
nah it's fine.
wrong
@@voluntarism335 nope
@@lunarlight3131 wrong
@@voluntarism335 nope
@@lunarlight3131 wrong
the card is busted and frankly hard to not go off with... its a great choice for a ban i think even besides the fact that along with pretty much all the others goblins in magic, its a disgusting antisemitic caricature
That's pretty fucked up you think all Jewish people look like goblins bro
Please explain what about the art makes you think of jews? is it the green skin or him being 3 feet tall? The fancy 3 pointed hat maybe?
Banned? Lol. No. Yes it can go infinite but its too easy to stop. Also ive had a fatal 4 way where i only get a couple treasures on plenty of occasions. Def wouldn't ban this one.
It’s not just that it can go infinite but dockside is the best creature overall. It provides resources in a way nothing else does and the whole game warps when the card comes into play because it becomes all about blinking and cloning it. If it was just a combo piece I wouldn’t think it needs to be banned either
@@thetrinketmage Oh don't get me wrong. It has disgusting potential. Id say it's definitely top 5 non-legendary creatures (only because hullbreacher is banned in commander 🙌) but I can't honestly say its the best creature. Like most creatures in magic, its entirely situational. I've literally had a fatal 4 way where I had Dockside in hand but couldn't play it until like turn 9 or 10 just to have it make 2 treasures. Which btw, thanks to debatably the most OP non-legendary creature in my opinion, Hullbreaker Horror, I didn't even get to see hit the floor.
@@thetrinketmage Hullbreaker is putrid. Flash, can't be canceled, and can return anything, spell or nonland, to its owners hand for the price of a brainstorm, thrill of possibility, hell even a lotus petal or a tormods crypt. It makes cancels that can't be canceled not work if that says anything. And if Rite of Replicated its literally Game Over lol.
@@horimotogp1031 nice to know that you're retarded
Maybe try not playing so many artifacts and enchantments thus making your opponent's dockside so good. Greedy players deserve to get punished.
I like the idea in theory but without mana rocks non green decks will fall way to far behind so every most decks will run some. And if each opponent has 2 rocks dockside is still -4 mana which is enough for many loops
gotta love that just playing two of the five available permanent types constitutes being "greedy".
Dockside isn't busted, people should simply only run lands and creatures, yes, very smart.
what a braindead response, playing out 2 artifacts and your other 2 opponents doing the same thing is not "greedy"
get lost troll
@@thetrinketmagethis card is what gives mono red decks a legit chance against faster blue decks. It’s an interesting card and it keeps red relevant in the meta. You play stacks I’m surprised you have such a hard stance against it. Love your videos but I really disagree with you here
Cope seethe hater.