The Herd of Black Sheep: Goth's Conformity Crisis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- I've been Thinking a lot lately - often after blazing up the Good Stuff - about the motivations behind why it is that listening to a certain type of music, should make people decide to adopt such a specific style of dress - it's strange & interesting, & as such, this shall be the first of two-to-a-few videos delving into some theories as to our true motivations for certain modes of gothic style, & the different tribes & mindsets within the community - this video, obviously, being the fact that some of us see goth clubs as a place to let loose & dress up, with no rules at all, while others clearly take the opposite stance, & see goth clubs as places full of rules, with strict dress codes nearly amounting to a uniform, & I find it very interesting... But yes - I didn't use a single picture of anyone here, who I thought looked anything other than fantastic...until you realise it's not self expression; it's a uniform. I went to my first goth festival at just 16, & therefore realised from the very beginning that a 'classic' goth look only works if you're The Only Goth In The Village - fill a whole town with Classic Goths, & you can't tell anyone apart. After that, I realised dressing 100% Classic Goth wasn't the way I wanted to be, & that's especially important in the internet age; social media WILL crush your ego if you dress identically to every other nu-goth or deathrocker; you WILL compare yourself, & get overly self-critical. For me, my ears stick out too much to really rock a deathhawk, my feet are too long and narrow already to look good in winklepickers; if I tried to stuff myself into that box, sure, I'd be Deathrock af, but I'd also look like a jug-eared clown-footed 'other one' compared to all the 'hot ones' who actually suit that style.
tl;dr - I really recommend moulding your style, to your own physical strengths & weaknesses, just like Black Friday with her very trad look, that she's customised into such a beautiful cartoon character that fits her facial features & body type so beautifully, ditto Adora Batbrat with the makeup & eyebrows that suit her so well, but make me look like an angry crazy person when I tried them out, lol, & the clothing that flatters her long lean body, or Psychara with her drapey nature-witch aesthetic that looks so pretty on her delicate little frame, or Antistorm.png with their endlessly original spins on androgynous extraterrestrial makeup - a customised look will always flatter you more than trying to fit someone else's uniform at all costs
...& yes; don't fear the reaper--uhh, the elitists! XD That video is On My To Do List - I ain't heard anyone really that pop that bubble yet the way I see it, soo...wotch this space C;
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"If you want to be a non-conformist you just have to dress like us and listen to the same music we do"
_ Goth Kid from South Park
You can't be an non-conformist if you don't drink coffee!
God I love Michael
I absolutely love the Goth kids on South Park. The coolest thing about them is they make fun of the emo kids , listen to awesome goth music, and have great comebacks. 😆😆😆😆🖤🖤🖤🦇🦇🦇
Everytime i see it im just like... Yeah... Unfortunately thats how most of the alternative youth feel about whatever group they are gatekeeping for whatever reason
Henrietta is my favorite!
lol the cybergoths trying to decide amongst themselves which colour power rangers they're gonna be
Yeah yeah. Funny but kinda true.
You made me spit My Tea and then stort IT i hope you're happy..
I WAS DYING WHEN SHE SAID THAT. XD XD XD
This cracked me up. I guess Goth is Juggalo now 😂
I was the blue one! ...and the only one in my school.
Maybe if the elitism wasn't so prevalent in the goth subculture, people wouldn't feel the need to dress like a goth cliché to fit the mold. It's always baffled me how a subculture that prides itself on being non-conformist has this fixed mindset of "You're not goth if you don't do this or that". It's a sad paradox, really.
You see it in a lot of alternative subcultures.
Try going to a metal concert in something else than a band shirt
Elitism in goth culture is a myth that is milked by goths to maintain the thought of “if there’s elitism then this culture is elite, and I’m part of it”. There’s no elitism, it’s just “goth” period
Same shit with punk rock its all a b.s. trend🤣
I think elitism happens because there are a lot of people who get into a subculture because of the “look” most of us who learn about a subcultures existence is through the clothing. We see the people part of different subcultures wearing particular styles, and we think it’s cool and want to be apart of it. A lot of kids just think that goth or punk or metal is just a fashion statement forgetting that these are subcultures and fashion is just a piece of it. Yes, the essence of subcultures is non conformity. But when a subculture becomes more popular than kids want to be apart of it so they can feel cool. A lot of kids who associate themselves with the goth subculture look down on “normies” they think their better because they aren’t following the trend. However in actuality they’re just following a different trend it’s kind of trendy to be different. Elitists are trying to protect something they value but the way they go about it is wrong.
Fuck Elitists!
I think this 30 minute video can be summed up in a simple Monty Python quote:
Brain: You're all individuals!
Crowd: [in unison] Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
Crowd: [in unison] Yes, we are all different!
Man in crowd: I'm not...
Crowd: Shhh!
"He's not the Messiah.."
When I was attending drivers Ed training as a teen, a normal looking girl mocked me for not looking like a fan of The Cure band. She said I don't look like a Cure fan and that she has always loved The Cure. I realized I was wearing a long black skirt with a red top. I had makeup on and heavy white foundation with eyeliner. This short haired curly blond girl was wearing no makeup, a white shirt, blue sweat shorts with a blue hoodie and jogging shoes. I assumed I made her feel bad because I looked more goth then she did? It's crazy.
holy shit that's amazing
@@gallimead ...he's a very naughty boy!"
@Snutih en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Life_of_Brian
Don't shit on Goths named Brian.
Bang. On. I get the "you're really not goth enough to be goth" all the time because I don't fit the goth mould.
I'm gunna admit I havent work all black in ages, i went hard when i was at my 4 year and more than half my wardrobe is still my unique brand of goth (its actually still growing despite it all)
Well the positive in it When "they say ur not goth enough". Means u are Goth. They dont say "your not goth". Just ur not Goth enough. I got that "Yr not Goth ." Of others Goths at home. Because I love to experience difference styles, my own taste. And it still in some category. But when before I startet as a baby bat, when I was 18. I learned that Goth means ur expresse urself, u making urself an artist. And is in all darkness. Where I lived I didnt have internett, or tv or youtube. Only the social, Cd, goth club. And those at home looked more like metalheads who cald them self Goth. And some where victorian. Those who had money or made them self. And then I came to the big city where the "real" existed. I was sooo ribbed off. They treaden me like a garbage. I was so chocked. So i stoped cald my self Goth at that time and cald my self metalhead, punk or something. But had a brooken goth heart many years. And now Im 34 and started go back Goth again from last year. Because I just give it a fck and noe Im a happy, proud Goth woman. :) So be proud for who you are. Are u goth, feel like goth. Dream like goth. Lisning like Goth. Then fuck them! Ur are goth! 😎🖤☠🤟
@@ElinIngridHemsen Aww thank you so much!! You're awesome
Lol I get it try being a minority goth lol feel like u never fit in then ur like fuck it :)
I'm so Goth that I feel comfortable looking completely ordinary.:D
I'm not a goth but I'm a metalhead and this standardised look problem is certainly a problem in our community. I dress pretty boring and definitely don't fit the look which causes it's own problems with people calling me a poser and stuff (especially as a woman). All you need to be metalhead is love metal!
hydra9on Same! I retired my band shirts a while ago and now dress boring/nerdy. People always look surprised when I start listing my favourite bands.
@@suspiriadoom They're always like, "I never ever would've thought you're into all that stuff"
hydra9on Yeah, haha! I secretly enjoy to see people getting confused :P
with metalheads the only thing ive heard of fashion wise thats an issue is patch jackets. i personaly love them , in the progress of making one myself but its not just how very similar they all look its the elitism that people show towards whatever bands you have on there . ( took me a long ass time to start doing one of my own as i was scared i was not 'metal ' enough which is dumb af i know)
The problem is that people feel the need to categorise.
It comes down to the same old thing of people being scared of anything new and unknown thing.
"bUt yOU DoN'T hAVe bLacK HaiR" - all my life as a Goth. I just don't look good in it!
Same!
"Wha??? Green hair???? PINK EYESHADOW???? That's not goth! "
Or even better "you don't paint your nails? I thought every goth had long black nails"
🤦♀️
Saaaame! (I know it's black in my profile pic but it's been green for most of the last 5 years)
Aha me too! I’ve got the almost white streaks in the front of my hair which I change the colors frequently
Same! Red hair over here because I look so bad with black hair.
Oh yes. Me too.
I really hate the "so goth" leggings that Killstar has. It's like "oh my goth, I can't wear something casual without plastering that word all over me. I can't let my knowledge, or passion for the subculture speak for itself on days when I can't go all out." It seems so lazy and insecure to me. Also, I would like to see patches of lesser known goth bands, or goth bands from the '90s more often.
I saw a bag on Killstar that was mocking McDonald's and it said McGoth. Wtf? I don't get it.
Erinn Enchanted I don't get it either.
Killstar is evil
There's been a Mc Goth meme going round for a long time. They must be cashing in on the meme.
I tag any photos I have when I'm eating McDonald's with mcgoth xD
Also I buy my black tights from Kmart. But I do own and legitimately love a lot of killstar stuff. It just depends on different tastes.
I could listen to you waffle for hours
Agree
Same
same
same
Agreed
i think a lot of copying comes from people who have spent so long unsure or afraid to try that they dont know their style yet but theyre just desperate for that feeling of relief when you finally look in the mirror and see you as yourself. and then you can sort of backtrack and start shaping it into your own thing
Katherine Couch Precisely. You can rack your brain all day trying to figure it out yourself but without influence, it’s hard to envision. As the old saying goes, you don’t know what you don’t know.
True, I really believe that the “standard goth look“ is a safety blanket for the ones who know that the goth community is where they belong but don’t know how to find their place in it.
@@Milenaiguess yep - they’ll find their way
Oh my god... I love you. You don't have a problem addressing the elephant in the room.
If I openly had the same rants I'd probably get black balled from parties lol. Goths don't like to get called out for their conformity. The people in my scene are such desperate social climbers, so nobody is going to challenge how things are.
This is perfect! I am a goth who also happens to be a metalhead, and both of the subcultures that I fit into give me so much shit for aligning with the other. People give me nonsense in the metal scene for having goth patches on my jacket and vice versa. It's so nonsensical! How dare I be something beyond a Hot Topic or Punk Rave advertisement!?
it's weird, even in the 90s it wasn't really like that, there was a lot of different styles and people embracing different mixtures and taste and getting along without a bunch of unnecessary judgements, it was a lot of fun too. I lived in several big cities at that time and there were good vibes when you went out, it didn't even matter if my style matched the scene. music actually has the power to unite people still. I just hope people don't use every damn thing as an excuse to divide as humans. much love, keeping being you! 👊💕👊
Kristy Kelly exactly! 👋💕👋
I'm a goth metalhead too. I love both genres.
@@mortchen5494 goths never admit the crossover 🙄, and metal heads act stupid to goth music like they have no idea what to make of it and that bugs me. I love Punk, Metal and industrial occasionally Goth rock and other goth genres and both punks & metal heads act stupid about my christian death patch on my pants.
I feel like this was a goth Ted talk. And holy shit loved it. Thank you Dorain for put the effort into the videos you do. It feels so nice to people complain about problems and that world isn't perfect. I have a shit load of medical metal issues. Just hearing other people call out bullshit is so therapeutic. Loves of love ~ kristian.
I'm a 54 year old man. No goth friends, no role models, no alpha-clones to model myself on, I've never been in the room with 'the hot one'. DIY and thrift has always been my way of combatting conformity. I am the first rate version of me. Great video Dorian, as usual. P.S. I suspect that Cybergoth has died here in Australia and it's interesting that in the photo you showed all the Cybergoths were women.
DIY and thrifting! Yes!
I'm 44 and I don't remember anything but thrift store shopping and sewing/modifying my own clothes when I was young. It felt great to dye, rip, see everything to how I wanted it.
Fully into DIY stuff. Cloths and funiture. I just wish i was a quicker seamstress. i got like 30 projects in the waiting. and that i do stuff like normal tshirts and pants for myself, as in regular wear doesnt help. XD
If you’ve never been in a room with “the hot one,” maybe you were the hot one lol!
The thing is that it's not just goth anymore . It's like all alt fashions have decided you have to look a certain way to be apart of that particular group. I think vintage styles and lolita are a good example of this.
This seems to be an issue in almost every subculture,niche group, etc....le sigh
Le sigh is right
I don’t fit in with “regular” people but I don’t feel welcome in the goth community either because I don’t listen to solely or enough goth music and don’t strictly wear black. Oh well, lonely vampire life forever for me :)
Nightwalker 4202 same!
Me too!!!
Saame
Me and metal. I don't like a lot of the *precious grandfather of metal* bands. And everyone is like *WELL. YOURE NOT A REAL METALHEAD THEN KDKSSKKASSDS*
Hey... Don't worry about the music, if you like some of the aesthetics, then that's great. Go about breaking molds. Truly, be honest with yourself . Like what you like. Be you.... THAT is Goth...that is independent . Courageous! And to me, almost 50 ... Is what Goth has always been about !! That does include music.... I adore everything from Jazz, Classical ... Gregorian chanting . Also Sisters of Mercy and the Goth Standards as well... But what makes you stand out , and memorable to others is if you hold true to your own aesthetic . Don't sell yourself short.
Me: not goth enough to hang out with the goths, not normal enough to hang out with the normies.
(I do like to dress a lot in black, though. Maybe I can be a soft goth).
You can be whatever you want to be, my love. That is the joy of it.
You don't have to know and pretend to be into the "it" bands of the moment; you don't have to follow fashion, and you most certainly, never need to conform.
Life is shitty enough at the best of times, so revel in your uniqueness and creativity till the Grim Reaper comes a calling.
Goth light
@@moonbeammuse2767 Thank you for your kind words. The thing is I am more into heavy metal, indie rock and stuff. I rarely listen to goth music, though I do appreciate the creativity behind it. Most of the time I don't dress up because I'm too lazy for it, but I do own some clothing items that can be considered goth. I guess some days I feel goth, some don't, and as our beloved host said, goth is a subculture full of elitism. I would love to go to a goth club and experience the scene, but sadly, where I live is not possible.
You sound more like an alternative inbetweener like myself 👍
I'm the same. I've always been shit at putting on make up and doing hair. I was typically too goth to hang out with the normies and not goth enough for the goth people.
Last year I went to the WGT and there was this awesome unique looking guy and there was „Front Line Assembly“ written on his back.
And the band was actually playing at the day.
So I just went there because this random guy looked fabulous and I had a lot of fun there.
• karl kokett • love that, love them, really had no idea they still played!😃
This is why I love you. You have your own style and you're always mixing it up.🖤 hurray for individualism.
This is exactly why even at my "gothiest" when I was a teenager/early 20's, I never liked being called "goth." I begrudgingly accepted it because it was easier for others to describe me, but I corrected them as much as I could. I bought a few cool goth clothing pieces I was able to save up my lunch money to eventually buy (lol, the things I did, haha), but 95% was DIY (and I loathed winklepickers, or any pointy shoes for that matter). I went out of my way to find underground bands that a lot of people hadn't heard of (which was difficult back in the 90's when you didn't have the net and I took chances through descriptions in the back of music magazines and catalogs). These days, my roots are still very much in Goth and Industrial music, but I've branched out so much. My music tastes are extremely eclectic and I've incorporated all of that into my wardrobe. I may get inspiration from things I find aestheticly pleasing, but I'm a mix of many alternative subcultures and I think that's how it should be.
I just saw Black Friday's recent apt tour videos and while some of her stuff is really nice, I feel like a lot of that would have appealed to me more when I was very young. Watching those videos made feel so overwhelmed by too much of the same thing, I wouldn't be able to live in such a small box of the same thing. It makes her happy, so that's great on her, she can do/like what she wants, but it was all way too stereotypical and not unique enough for me. Maybe it's because I've always been a loner then and now, but the more something looks cloned, the more I just stray away from it...
Your comment resonates with me so much. I was a teen in the 90s and people called me goth, sometimes hippie-goth but I never called myself that. The feeling of being pigeonholed is actually quite depressing. I wouldn't call myself a loner but most definitely a misfit of sorts and I'm totally comfortable with that. Hmmmm
to be fair, there are alot of people that are in love with goth but are not endowed with the gift of creativity.
I actually miss seeing the CyberGoths out at the club! I thought they were cute as hell! I don't think there's anything wrong with color coordinating with your friends. They probably did it for an event.
My Wyfe has a more vampire aesthetic and wears corsets while I, of course, do the Deathrock thing. We often color coordinate so that we match when we go out. If we decide to do purple we each wear whatever version of purple we have available to us, from our fingernails to our makeup to our outfits. It's fun to have someone to dress up with!
Regarding the “oh no, she’s wearing the same dress as I am” thing (at about 14:03 - I am 60 years old, and you just explained to me why anyone cares about someone else wearing the same dress as they are wearing. I never understood why anyone cared.
Tina exactly! all it means is you both have good taste, and you could probably get good shop recommendations from them~
To me, back when I was a teen, the modern goth community was about admiration and acceptance of people being different but now it seems more like an elitist fashion show about who can be the most "different" while also fitting the criteria of what this new generation considers to be "goth".
I've always described myself as more "punk" but honestly, I think the whole "goth, emo, punk" label thing is a bit of a dick waving contest these days. Most of these kids don't even know what real, historical goths are and where it all came from.
Thank you!! I’ve had people say I’m “not goth enough” cause I have a different style! My makeup is minimalist, just some eyeshadow and lipstick. I don’t have black hair ect. I wear mostly black clothing and I do like killstar but it’s not ALL I wear. I mix and match! I make it my own! Thanks for talking about this!
I am 52, and I identified as a punk in 77', so saw the birth of Goth before it was labelled as such, living in Manchester until I was 19, then off to the alleged home of goth, Leeds to university.
On reflection, we saw fashion trends like studded belts, boot straps, Cuban heels etc, thought hey, that looks good, and went about emulating them, to be part of a crowd of people we admired, but times were hard, and many of us went down the DIY route that punk was embracing as well, it felt natural, was looked upon as a positive, and helped us to spot like minded individuals to befriend.
Like all subcultures though, the commercialisation of the scene has led to a stagnation of creativity compared to the explosion in the early years, we laughed at the old school teddy boys back then for their rigid uniform, and thirty odd years on, there will be young people laughing at the goths in Whitby I'm sure, it's just the circle of life!
I am so glad I was part of the whole punk scene back then, but I won't pretend we were all unique from the word go, we did copy the bands and so on if we saw a look or a mannerisms or a dance move etc that took our fancy, for many different reasons, poverty was often the mother of invention, as well as the DIY ethic which seems to have been lost since those heady days, and the judgemental element was not quite as prevalent as it reportedly is now, but it still existed make no mistake! (judging ones peers may well be a mechanism to weed out those in the scene or group who aren't serious, or invested I suppose, childish but there you are, it's a defence mechanism).
I still do go to goth nights and WGW occasionally, still into my punk and alternative music and lifestyle/look, but it's a scene devoid of energy and inspiration compared to the early days, to the surprise of no one. Occasionally I do come across a band who blow me away, or an individual happily rocking their own style and that's enough to cheer me right up, I'm not sure where I'm going with all this, maybe just to say to all those people who feel they need to conform that it's ok to do that, and to those that don't, always be brave because we all need you 😀
Finally, I think the politics in punk really shaped the goth and alternative scene, anger over inequality and injustice fuelled the creative output of the pioneers, like the Southern death cult/ death cult/ cult (other emotions were available), if you can keep that at the heart of your existence then the rest flows more readily, rather than treating the genre as a fashion statement alone 🤔
Back in the '90s (already in my late 20's early 30's), I DJ'd in a 1960's paisley pastel ballgown for about 4 months. I never got weird comments from my fellow goths. Unfortunately, even then I saw people becoming homogenized within the community. I used to joke about how Hot Topic was destroying originality but they were never the only ones. ~Cat
The irony is that Hot Topic is no longer an alternative store. It kind of lives up to its name now, as fandom central. They've got an entire wall of Pop figures! That's not a bad thing at all (and I did just get an entire Goth outfit from there recently, along with Castlevania merch), but any Goths that only shop at Hot Topic are... limiting themselves.
@@nyxshadowhawk I didn't think of it as an alternative store then, but being older I was used to finding clothes at thrift stores to make my outfits out of. Thrifts stores have changed too. I go in Hot Topic occasionally just to see what the cool kids are doing nowadays. LOL
👋💕🎧I'm totally imagining you djing in that, love it!! I had a similar style then too, and it still plays into my current designs and styles.
@@highpeacetess I am still a mix of different designs and styles too. Probably comes from being a teen/adult in the 80's, when thrifting was the way to go. I just don't found to many great retro finds anymore.
I see so many well made points and parallels to your killstar video. I think it's quite become a "holier than thou" mindset, almost like a contest that determines who's the "gothest" in an elitist mindset. I quite agree, so very well said.
Gothier than thou lol. I think goth is about the music. The fashion follows if you are into that thing, but for me i dont do the makeup all the time. As for clothes, i am in all black most of the time but thats my preference. I dont do killstar- its my own style. I so agree with Dorian!!!
I completely agree. Sometimes it's fun to look like a stereotype, but it's always /more/ fun to make it your own, make it unique. I'm an extremely creative person, and although I'm often dressed down, I truly enjoy allowing that creativity flow into all parts of my life including my style. I am also disappointed when I see people blatantly choosing to look like another person, rather than being inspired by their style.
Looking great, Dorian! Always love your rants.
... The first time I stumbled into Zigzag - Birmingham, 1985, it was full of punks, skins, rockers, alternatives (I considered myself this at the time); pretty much anything that wasn't mainstream, trendy shit. It was FUCKING AWESOME! I felt immediately at home. I was fifteen at the time.
I bought my boots at Jade, jewellery at the old Oasis, or nicked it from my nan. I also garnered her cocktail gloves and marquasite rings. I nicked my grandad's paisley pajama tops, cravats and overcoats. And bought my clothes from the Rag Market, Blitz Geist (a second hand, retro clothing, books and accessory shop in Harbourne), and jumble markets. We were a hodge podge of brokeness and creativity; poverty being the mother of invention. I'm glad the seedlings of the subculture, flourished and didn't die a death as some trends have done. However, being able to buy a goth uniform and not even knowing or appreciating its musical roots, flies in the eye of everything we EVER stood for.
P.S, I bought a pair of winkle pickers simply for nostalgia's sake. Platforms were too '70s, and a reminder of our parents; something all teenagers want to avoid with a passion! Haha!
I seem to have rambled, somewhat.
Hey-ho, it's an ethos I still hold dear as I rapidly approach my 50th birthday, later this year. Eeek! ❤❤❤
The diy aspect seems dead which is why everyone looks so generic.
To be fair, in my nearly 20 years of being involved in various subcultures, I’ve never heard anyone refer to themselves as a “nonconformist”. Subculture is culture, so it has cultural norms. I think people are worried about the “anything can be goth” mentality because they’re worried it’s going to get diluted and then mean nothing. And I do think you’re right a lot of young goths don’t have the experience to realize the scene is a lot more open than the internet and commercial stuff presents. Sometimes copying is the start of something you’ll make your own later, so I try to be patient with the baby bats especially since I was one! I think I filled the late 90s/early 00s “mall goth” stereotype for a long time, but now I’m much different and try to take influence from a lot of different goth and goth adjacent things. I’m making a zine to reflect this, to try and show the eclectic nature of dark culture, especially what’s new or less appreciated. One of the places I’m going to leave them is Hot Topic since that’s where so many people get started with underground culture. As cynical as people are about that store, it does bring new blood in and I’m hoping to guide people in a less commercial way (the zine will be free, maybe a dollar, I’m gonna make it work). I want to be encouraging like you are on this channel! Also for the young ones on here: be different! People love it more than you think. The snobs are fewer than the internet conveys. Do know goth and it’s history and styles but for influence not duplicating. You’ll figure it out. 🖤
Dorian, I feel like every video you have made as of late speaks to my soul. It’s as if you and I are riding the same wavelength because I have been spending a lot of time pondering on the things you have been speaking on. Dorian’s House of Waffling is my favorite place to be. I remember my baby bat days where I would spend hours and hours customizing my clothing and all of my spare time in record stores and niche shops looking for the perfect patches, studs and spikes; Such a great time in my life. This was a lovely video to watch after a good old smudging and spiritual cleansing. 🖤
this is a very important video. some months ago I started to know more about goth and I was insecure about doing new things because I was new to the sub culture, I was wrong! goth is about uniqueness and love!
I'm a young goth. When you explained the whole thing with picking an identity it was the same thing for me but with emo. I would only wear things the fit the emo mold and I forced myself to listen to stereotypical emo music. I almost fell into this same whole with goth. But this year I've been far more experimental. I started getting clothes that I liked and not because there "goth". I mean a funky 70s style button up and a 70s pink and purple velvet dress with funky patterns definitely aren't what is "goth". I've slowly kinda gotten away from the whole Siouxsie makeup and created a eye look that makes me far happier and is more me and was taken from how I draw eyes in my artwork. The lines I draw on the button of eyes may look like shit but aleast it was something that came out me.
The mold even went down to my artwork. I felt that all my art had to be overly spooky and that everyone I drew had to look like a death rocker. I wasn't properly expressing myself in anyway I would put away ideas because they weren't "goth".
This is random but since you are also a Billy Martin/PZB fan, I actually painted "Lost Souls" on the back of a vest since that book is very important to be.
Honestly I felt so great when you showed the picture of the ginger goth at 6:01. I've seen very few ginger goths. Bright red or maroon hair, sure, but not a natural shade of red. And it's made me self-conscious, because I LOVE being ginger and I love how it looks against my black clothes, but sometimes I worry that it'll just... take away my goth cred? I don't know. I've had bright red hair, blond hair, black hair, purple hair, pink hair. I've been goth since I was 14 and I've rocked a lot of colors. So far, ginger has made me happiest. So it's nice to see a vintage goth look with ginger hair. Thank you so much for this video!
My baby sister is a ginger goth and I agree that it looks amazing with the black clothes! I tend to stray a bit more jewel toned with my red hair because it works better with my coloring (and I tend to wear a lot of jewel tones anyway so it's also an aesthetic thing) but when I was in high school I also did the whole ginger goth thing and used to get so much shit for it. I nearly pulled a muscle in my middle finger from how often I was using it! Now I make sure my sister knows not to take shit from anyone who says she's a poser or not goth enough because she isn't dying her hair at 9 years old.
@@KassMcCormack You sound like an awesome sibling, and your sister sounds adorable!
@@darkfairybites She's the cutest! She's basically a mini-me! She lives in Colorado with our dad but a few months ago they came out to visit so I took them to Disneyland and the look on her face when she was riding the Haunted Mansion was priceless!
There's absolutely nothing wrong with red hair it's stunning and stands out rock it with pride
@@pobbrett3244 Thank you so much, you're very sweet.
I loved this psychological breakdown of style and identity. This is why you’re great Dorian, you got a brain and you use it, you observe the world around you so well! This is a conversation I’ve been having in my head for years, glad to hear someone else notices these things as well.
I actually started to include "non-traditional "goth clothing in my woredrobe. My favorite thing atm is joggers. They are warm, comfy and have pockets.
It is hot af rn so I sadly can't wear them.
I do agree that we goths don't do a lot of DIY anymore. I think do with newer goths not having time or money to do it.
Punk is the same way
You should make series of this
Or just expand on it
Even metalheads
Emos
I saw this a lot on r/goth. A majority of the people posting were gen Z who would post pics of their outfits all of which looked very much like the others. It was constant corsets, a million chokers, so much makeup, hair on the trad goth way, and so many accessories that would be sensory nightmares for me. I posted a picture of my own goth look, which I’ve adapted to be office casual due to working five days out of the week all day long. The comment I got was, “It’s cute, but thats more dark mori.” I had no idea what dark mori was until I looked it up. I think that my style really blends that with what you might call casual goth and office goth. But it’s my style that I mixed without really knowing a whole lot about subtypes. I came about due to having to dress within the bounds of a conservative office environment and also having sensory issues. I also listen to a bunch of music and don’t limit myself just goth genre. I honestly don’t care what anyone listens to. If someone tells me they’re goth, I don’t question. I don’t even care if they’re “posing” or whatever. It is what it is.
My thoughts exactly! Within my circle of friends, none of us have the same look. We are all individuals with our own style. I think people seem to have trouble differentiating
between fantasy on the internet and real life right now. It's pretty strange to see. I was in highschool in the 80s, and no one dressed alike back then (especially the freaks) except maybe the popular girls with their izods and penny loafers. You are absolutely right, showing up at school or a dance dressed like Siouxsie would have been the same as showing up dressed as Madonna. Everyone recognized that look right away. It was cool to take elements of their style and make it your own, but not ok to be a clone of genre icon. Great video as always.
I don't think that it's necessarily always conformity. Some things, like winkle pickers, are just things that happen to fall into the aesthetic that many goths enjoy (because we obviously DO have similarities in our likes and dislikes, that's why we bothered to build a subculture and smack a label on it). I personally would describe my style as very unique, even within the subculture, but I think that there may be many others who simply aren't creative. Not everyone can diy or create awesome looks themselves, that's why people may look to others and take inspiration from them. It obviously gets a bit weird when they fully copy another's style, but as long as they find a look they feel beautiful in, that's fine with me. Those big brands are a completely different topic, I absolutely agree that these only encourage people to forsake their creativity and buy something that looks like a uniform instead.
People accused other people of not being goth enough
I go through cycles of, “I am myself, I don’t have to fit a mold of goth/alternative” and “I need to get these clothes, these shoes, check these boxes, compare yourself to popular goths you look up to!” and I need to slap my wrist every time it happens.
I am an ever evolving person and I don’t need that mentality.
You’re awesome, I love listening to you.
Thank you once again for taking some more pressure off of my shoulders 😅
I’m 23 years old and I no longer care about goth elitists not validating me as being one of them. My style changes with the seasons, and definitely doesn’t look stereotypical at first glance. My inspirations for my look I would have to say are:
Hippie Goth, boho, faerie, nymph, spirit, phantom, gypsy, witch, old soul, Renaissance girl, romantic, gothic Disney Princess, gothic horror, and vampire.
Those are the looks I usually go for when I’m not dressed for work 😉.
I’m currently experimenting with crocheting gothic style items to wear in order to save money.
I’ve got the “you’re not a proper goth bc you wear colour (occasionally)” from a few people who know nothing about the subculture...
I'm 'not a goth' because I wear hippie patterned lightweight clothing in summer. It's all black and white but apparently being comfortable and not dying of heat stroke is not goth enough.
I'm not part of the goth community but YT recommended this video to me. Your video was super interesting, and your points can be applied to many aspects in life. Very cool.
I feel like no matter what we dress like. Arriving anywhere with my female friends get us ranked by hotness.
Yrp. That happens regardless of subculture, style, etc. I'm short and chubby so i always feel like I'm the not hot one when I hang out with my best friend.
I'm 29yo, and I still have no idea what I want to do with my life xD
What you want to do with your life, well that's easy, The Man decides you off his bailout, if you don't have anything specific like I do trying to progress through a position of student to work and then just focus on me beyond this, they're going to force you to pick by blocking you off. A once limitless world will reveal to you the joys of economic salvation life.
This is the most relatable thing I've seen
@@RedWinter88 Unfortunately its the truth, the status quo of post-60s society, were they had a clear chance at fixing everything, now they're proudly playing God+Satan witnessing the world be in ruins since they stereotyped everything down to no inclusion, you get no value from whatever you yourself would like to do, you're constantly forced into a indoctrinating, assimilating game of turning boss syndrome button on or turning survival mode on, if that's not it you're ending up in direct problems with the Fed, you will face their modern Crusade or you will unleash a modern Crusade of your own, which despite the comedy I'm using, is a humanitarian issue that most likely may not be fixed, we may end in nearby future living in global Mumbai slums because of these assholes.
The meaning of life is a deep topic which people who near die don’t even know
Mine is ‘eat well sleep well and be happy’
Of course need some money to support life so I work
When I was young in the 80's and even in the 90's, I was very concerned about fitting in. But you grow out of that mentality, hopefully, as you mature. Now I'm in my mid-50's, and fitting in with the goth kids is far from my mind. I wear what I like, and often that means black and at least semi-gothy, but sometimes I want to wear something more colorful and light. It just depends on how I want to express myself that day. I'm sorry I was so worried about conforming when I was younger, but that's ok. Goth wasn't a phase for me, but conforming to strict goth style was. :) Edit to add: It doesn't bother me if someone wants to be a "Black Friday clone" or whatever. Some people just totally fall in love with an aesthetic and run with it, no matter the inspiration. It only bothers me if they're shitty about it and point fingers at others for not being goth enough. That's not cool. But it's always more interesting when someone is an original.
Very well said!! 👏👏👏
So true ! I'm 50 , I was a Mod in the 80's . This was called Youth Subculture. As an adult ,I don't need to wear clothes to show people who don't care anyway , what I'm into . It's all a bit silly ,frankly.
@@shaunw9270 the scooterists still ride our Vespas and Lambrettas, though. 👍
loved hearing your perspective, thanks for sharing ! 💕
I wore orange lipstick amongst my black lipstick wearing friends at a party last week and felt really awkward for the first 5 seconds, I then re-applied my lipstick is the bathroom and thought hell yeah I love this colour!
You have to be comfortable in yourself and comfortable with the possibility of being seen as a misfit. The people who reject you based on your appearance are not worth your time.
Not one to class myself as ‘goth’ due to my more metal/rock inclined music taste, but regardless, the pressure of needing to know who you are as a teenager is all too real😂.I definitely think being uncertain of your identity and interests is a big factor in why we feel as though we have to choose one specific subculture or style, and you’re not wrong about trying to conform to stereotypes, think I’ve been too concerned with doing that. Still finding my identity (particularly in terms of fashion style), but thank you for putting this into perspective: feeling more encouraged to explore all my interests even if they might not seem to go together 😂
I completely agree with this. My style is derived from punk/grunge but I still consider myself goth. Even my music tastes are all over the place. Sure I listen to The Cure and whatnot but I still love my Nirvana, Green Day and Gorillaz. Just because you dont look like a "typical goth" doesn't mean you're not goth.
I totally remember going to the goth clubs in the 90s in basically my underwear and lingerie. My parents were like "where the hell are you going?!" hahahah
Can't wait for your elitist rant.
This is my experience: when I first started being goth I was a 12 year old who just listened to Voltaire,Emilie Autumn, blutengel and ASP. I was one of those corset and long black skirt goths with super long brown hair (Victoria Frances style right?) I then had an emo phase and then I returned to my goth nature but now I don't look like a typical goth especially when I don't dress up but I still consider myself a goth cause you don't have to look like the perfect goth,you have to feel it! It's an inner thing! Then obviously,be the way you like but make it your own
I mean the thing is, yes, a lot of goths look similar, especially in the little subcategories, and it seems against the bases of the subculture that some look pretty much alike - but you know, unlike the mainstream trend we choose to be this way. "Self expression" and being "different" mostly refers to "different from the mainstream" imo. Being different from anyone else is kind of the opposite of belonging to a scene, since you actively are a member in that scene because you found your tribe. Goth in itself is a very small scene compared to all of the population, so if you see a goth in a subway the person still stands out even tho they may be the most generic Killstar goth ever. So I think you don't have to re- invent the wheel outfit-wise.
I do absolutely agree on the Batcave jackets, they all look the same and it bugs me. Thats why I put very unusual bands on mine, everyone knows that I probably listen to Bauhaus when I have big hair, haha. And I think we can all do better on being more creative with our outfits. But also it depends on where you are going. For example on Gothic Pogo in Leipzig this year were the most creative, amazing individuals in one place I have ever seen, knowing that places and people like this exist really gave me hope for the entire scene. 🖤
"If you wanna be a nonconformist, you have to dress just like us and listen to the same music we do." Lol this is why I don't feel the need to define myself as a particular subculture of goth, I just wear whatever looks good to me and listen to whatever music I like.
I've always found the music to be more important than the image. I consider myself goth because gothic rock is my favourite genre. The make up and attire is just a bi-product but not essential to me. I think variety is the spice of life and it's nice to see people who do something genuinely different but at the end of the day life is too short to waste time judging others. Just dress how you want to dress it doesn't make you any less or any more goth to dress in a way that isn't 100% bog standard basic stereotype goth. We base too much on the looks now and that was never what goth started off as. It wasn't a competition or a fashion show it was about enjoying great music. Just do what you want to do! Right now i feel like listening to Xmal Deutschland so I'm gonna go do that lol 😅👻✌️🦇🌹🕸️
Finally someone who is on the right page the art always comes first
But what if you don't listen to gothic rock?
@@frankgonzalez966 i absolutely agree Frank 😎👍
@@nyxshadowhawk then that's your decision. There's no right and wrong about it just what works for you but if you don't listen to gothic rock but dress in a way associated with the goth subculture then I'd say you are more someone who just appreciates the gothic aesthetic rather than being a traditional "goth" in the rooted meaning of the term.
@@mark-alexmorridian7239 Although I can see where you're coming from, I disagree vehemently. If I tick every single goth box, except I prefer Nox Arcana over Bauhaus, suddenly I'm not a Goth! I just "appreciate the gothic aesthetic." I know this isn't what you're trying to say, but it's the equivalent of saying "you can't sit with us" because I don't like the right music. It encourages babybats to listen to music that they don't really like in order to be considered part of the in-group, and isn't that against the whole point of Goth?
It's not the Goth label that I care about. I don't care so much about calling myself Goth, but I do care about being a part of a community of like-minded people. I don't want to be excluded from that community because of one little thing. In my opinion, Goth IS the aesthetic. It's liking spooky stuff, whatever that may mean! The music is just a part of it. And besides, if the subculture is to survive, it's got to evolve. That music is 40 years old by now. Where do you think it will be in another 40 years?
And the "rooted meaning of the term" is a bit of a ridiculous story. First it referred to Germanic tribes, then it referred to architecture erroneously associated with those tribes, then it described literature about spooky things set in buildings with gothic architecture, and then it referred to music that explored the same themes as the literature, and then it referred to the subculture that sprang up around the music. There is no "rooted meaning."
I agree .......I just dress what takes my fancy. I'm alternative and like to experiment with looks. I'm 47 so I think maturity has enabled me to be who I want to be day to day. As a younger girl though I did follow the (black scene like souxie) xx
I have always despised having something the same as someone else, it's one of the main reasons I love DIY. I actually ended up wearing the same dress as another alternative girl in my year to prom. That made me widely avoid most branded clothing from then on 😂
sounds like a boring life
OMG this makes me think of myself when I was younger. I was such a try and desperate for people to accept me as "Goth". Now I'm 22 and I don't worry about it anymore. I wear what I want and I like what I like. Some people think its cringe because I wear Halloween themed tops all year round but it makes me happy and some of the puns on the T-shirts I find endlessly amusing. I also like horror and creepy themed clothing and accessories instead of elegant. I also enjoy listening to music and have a varied music taste. I don't see why I should restrict that. I have been to a Damned concert and they were amazing and I would love to see The Cure live, but that's because I love their music not to earn Goth points XD
"They've already taken blue or pink you gotta be orange" 🤣 This is so true and it's not only a thing with cybergoth of course.
I'm not goth but you totally inspire me to step into my own and for that I thank you!
Brave. Persuasive and intelligent. It stimulates so many trains of thought about (non-pretentious) authenticity and how we grow and develop the freedom to create the expression which matter and who is truly the judge of this. When we meet people we know what rings true and what doesn’t. Relevance and survival does depend on this. Btw saw Siouxsie and the Banshees in 1982 at Hammersmith she had the force and genuineness which expressed itself as not needing any validation. Love the content your growing into with this channel.
I have light blonde hair. That has been my biggest insecurity for a long while og being goth. I have dyed my hair red, but have now stopped. I needed this rant, so thank you! I will keep being myself, and dying my hair if I so please or keeing it blonde if I feel like it. And sewing my own things. You rock!
I'm goth on Friday, punk on Wednesday, hippie on Saturday, naked on Sunday, high class thuggerina on Thursday, dumpster fire on Wednesday, and pencil in whatever I want on Tuesday
I hope your name is a Dresden Dolls reference, I don't run into other fans often enough, online or irl.
@@cocobutter3175 but of course, Amanda Palmer is one of my absolute favorite musicians
You have just said so much truth I cant believe it!!! I'm an old 60 yr old lady who has always been an old hippie. My generation it was all about expressing yourself. I love to see goth and all the different looks. Be yourself .if anyone cant accept you in whatever way you express yourself it's their problem not yours. You rock .
Hm.
If you want to be a clone or heavily inspired. You do you.
I'm 32 years old and since I was 14 I tried to be "unique" and stay away from chlichès at all costs. Which was the wrong path for me. I tried so much to be unique, I forgot to be myself. It's a bit complex. So now I enjoy beeing chlichè. Bats to meeee!
And I stongly oppose your views about "the hot one" and "the other one". No matter how diffrent you dress, people will mark one as "the hot one". If your not the hot one your not the hot one. And I think we've got bigger fish to fry. Please excuse my english. I hope I got my point across and I would love to discuss other opinions.
That's true that people will always compare everyone to everyone else but she means that comparison is instantaneous when you wear the same thing as someone else. Like, it's easy to judge what person is hotter than the other, and after hanging out with the same group of people you become desensitized to it. That is until 2 people wear the same thing, it's an instant competition that should not be happening at all
This
I love this... I could listen to you all day long. I have to admit all this frenzy is making me uneasy. I gave up looking goth/alternative for years and started getting back into seeking it out in last couple of years. Health issues sadly ruin the joys of everything including the goth lifestyle. Seeing the cost of everything out there made me panic a tad and the direction of "goth hauls". All I can do is the makeup, maybe hair and my Doc Martens and my DIY stuff- but this insanity with the home decor outside of holidays- and ready made clothes and accessories. I like some of it, some tends to be kitschy to me and too crafty/cookie cutter like. It would be nice to be able to splurge a little like leather coats, loads of leather boots/bags but ultimately... I like being unique and NO I don't want to be a clone. Being somewhere, anywhere with the same clothes as someone else would mortify me. But I admit I would be selective on premade goth accessories or clothing would be nice cuz at my age, thrifting is a challenge. My city has no thrift stores... none... it's tragic
“Death rock” is the original name for “Goth.” Before “Goth” became a thing. Tells you how old I am. My ex used to hang out with Roz at the Veil in La.
Honestly thank you for this. Ive been getting into the goth scene/subculture for a few years now, but still very much consider myself new. Lately (mostly since my coworkers started calling me goth more often) Ive been feeling like Im "not goth enough" because i dont fit into this mould that you mostly see. Its been holding me back a bit from going to goth nights, and immersing myself more into the community, both online and in person. To hear somebody I really respect in the community say that I dont have to fit that mould and I can keep wearing/being my own style of goth is very comforting. I feel like the elitism is killing off some of the creativity and freedom of what it means to be goth, or "alternative" in general. Its like you said, people are sticking to these "by the book" looks so nobody will question them, and to avoid the gatekeepers, but the thing Iove most about being goth/"alternative" is that ive never been a "by the book" type of person. Self expression is so important, and I dont want to be a copy of anybody else, Ill keep being me.
Honestly the thing that I love about being alternative/goth is that I can just wear whatever I like? I have a fashion instagram where I post anything from my own take on cybergoth/cyberpunk to casual goth to steampunk, gothic with lolita influences, etc. I just like playing around with style a lot. That creativity in self expression to me is part of being goth.
Life is too short for you to try to fit in. It’s always better to be yourself. I always enjoy your riveting waffles. This is exactly the kind of thing anyone of any subculture/culture should hear. Thanks again! 🖤🦇
I enjoy how your commentary is like an unapologetic slap to the face!
I really enjoyed your waffle on newer goths. I am a new goth, and think of myself as a closet bat. Your explanation on newer goths having an identity crisis is very true. For example I’m living in a group home away from friends and family and due to moving I have trouble with people. Because of that I don’t “fit in” and have an identity crisis myself. I feel like I’ve found a sanctuary(as you stated) in gothic culture and I’m trying to learn and absorb all that I can. Tbh I appreciate your uploads and I found that this video hit very close to home. Thanks for the videos, I always look forward to gothic uploads 🖤🖤🖤
Well, the problem is not cybergoth, deathrock and so on and so on
The naked truth is: All goth "subgenres" gone commercial and have therefore become "standardized".
I think it is our duty as "older experienced" bats to turn this shit around and try to showcase the individuality which was back then one of the pillars of the goth subculture.
I think Killstar suck balls, but what pisses me off the most are the famous "goth instagram models/influencers"- White skinny bitches looking all the same claiming to be the "gothest of em all" with their copy+paste looks...
( Insert a dramatic vomiting pause here )
You’ve hit the nail on the head! I’m more punk/black metal so a lot of my style coincides with “goth” the way I like to frame it kinda like this “all makeup is makeup and there’s no difference, black eyeshadow makes me happy, pink eyeshadow can make
Someone else happy, in the end we are both wearing the same amount of makeup, there’s no difference between us and and there’s more to both of us then makeup, we are both expressing our best selves and that is something that should celebrated.
I'm a goth. I hate conformity. To show my individuality I wear a suit and tie and keep my hair short.
The part where you said that when you’re a loner in school, you have a harder time forming an identity really hit home for me.
The DIY aspect should be brought back.
honestly I often see it go two ways,
Because of social media theres so much to get inspired from nowadays. You see pictures and brands and outfits and hairstyles everywhere.
However this either results in people thinking they have to look like that to be goth, instead of taking small things and let it inspire them to try what is really ''them''
Or it results in people who absolutely do not want to be the same as everyone else and actively avoid well known brands, tv shows, bands etc.
In both cases, they let other people influence what they do, like or wear.
So my advice is always to look for what YOU like, and what you like to wear and what looks good on you and what makes you happy and feel like life is worthwhile and not be to worried about looking like everyone else or not looking like everyone else, because if that happens it happens but you are the one who has to look at it the most so make sure you like it.
I tend to look towards Nina Hagan now for inspiration because she always put her own spin on style.
I've always looked up to her style and lately I've been having so much fun taking inspiration from her and boy George in an incredibly annoying combination, it's been so much fun, and Nina, yeah, she's so good to go to for inspiration, not feeling this look, well, there's pages of others to look at!
Speaking as a baby bat (only late last year i realized my love of the goth subculture), its definitely very tempting to copy other goths. It took me a bit to stop wanting to copy every 20+ year old goth I saw on the internet. I think a lot of it, as you said, comes from a lack of identity teenagers have, but I also feel like it comes from those of us who don't want to be seen as posers and ... Become the "posers" and cliches we so feared. Me and friends used to try to go out of our way to seem cool to adults who shared our interests, which usually led to a lot of copying and behaviour mimicking unfortunately.
Watching your content and seeing your looks has inspired me to find my own identity in the spooky, dark, macabre things ive always loved, thank you! I've taken inspiration from some people of course, namely my new love for teased hair, but I've definitely learned to branched out in my style more because of people like yourself ❤️
Oh that was much longer than i thought it'd be ,,,
I find alot of this applys to some punk scenes as well everyone's got the manufactured patches and the same stud placements etc.
Both subcultures used to have such a good DIY aspect.
I very much loved goth style as a preteen and throughout being a teenager. I was very intimidated by older goths as they consistently insisted I had to be a certain way to be goth, and I just haven’t ever been able to force myself into being that specific way liking specific music and only dressing in specific clothing. I still do very much love the aesthetic. I wish someone had told me something like this back when I was trying to get into the goth scene
Completely agree about the band patches. If you are going to make a battle jacket, pick some unique/newer bands to showcase rather than the same 10 patches that you see on every damn goth DIY 😆
Exactly lol
Soooo happy you made this video. It needed to be said. I definitely fell into this a few years back and one night looked around at all my friends at the goth club dressed exactly the same, dancing the same, and looking down on people that didn't fit into our specific mold of how to dress, what to listen to, etc. and was really taken aback by how I even got there and had to do some serious self evaluation. Ended up kind of stepping away from that group of people and taking a bit of a break from the scene as well. Still love goth now but I didn't want to be as actively involved once I realized that over the years I became no better than the bitter elder goths who gave me shit when I first started coming out and made it so imperative for my younger self to feel like I had something to prove in order to be allowed in the scene.
About the jacket part:
I made myself one of these “ stereotypical”
Jackets and it’s my pride and joy. Yes I’m trying to find more obscure/current artists to put on my jacket( have a few pins, no patches yet) but it’s easier said than done to do so.
Let me explain:
Its easier to put together a “ different” kind of jacket when you know how draw or paint. If you can’t draw or paint like myself you are left with online or local sellers. Now I’ve found both types to be limited in the variety of bands they have. Going to a band’s bandcamp/ website is good for current bands, but if you want a band that broke up and isn’t one of the big ones,it’s almost impossible.
I think it would be better to critique artists/ companies who don’t make a variety of patches/ pins rather than the goths making the jackets themselves. I’m certain goths would have a greater variety of goth bands on if they were more widely available.
(I may just be really sensitive on this because I put a ton of time, effort and a little bit of my soul into my jacket. I couldn’t care less if it’s cookie cutter; I made it myself and it really makes me happy to wear it.)
Anyway, i hope anyone who reads this has a good day.
Aww. Definitely don't take that to heart. I bet your jacket is awesome. I'm currently working on one of my own, and I'm just going to try and put what I want and not worry too much about what other people will think.
Just like any company logo for uniforms and hats.. you can get a patch printed at a uniform embroidery store
oh my god... your look in the second part of the video is STUNNING! I am actually physically stunned. The colours and the highlight are perfect
#fuckgothbeautystandards
When i was a kid, i fell into the “goth uniform”. I’m 35 now & own a dog walking company... I have a tan from being outside and I cannot always wear black. I do however go to goth concerts and purchase music from goth artists.
Lets not be so quickly to judge someone for not “looking goth enough”.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE this commentary! You hit the nail on the head from start to finish and its something I have been dealing with since starting my journey into the Goth community over 15 years ago. I remember people telling me online that I was not Goth because I had blonde hair! A BLONDE DEATHHAWK?!!!? **GASP** Or that I liked Industrial music and trad Goth-Rock. I never had the pointy boots aha. The thing is I never looked at people to copy them, I just always did my own thing! I love to DIY my own clothes and painting patches etc. Now that I am a 30 yr old Goth I don't have the crazy hair, don't wear the makeup anymore, I mainly wear bandanas and DIY hats (im balding EWWW growing old sucks) so I assume most of these deathhawk, pointy boot goths (not that there's anything wrong with that fashion) would call me a poser lol. When you get to a certain age you just don't care! I know who I am and what I like! I don't need to cling onto a this over done cliche to fit in. I think what help shape me is being Goth in a small town in MINNESOTA! There is almost no Goth scene over here, no Goth clubs, and almost everyone here dresses like rappers and soccer moms. Ack! I had nobody to copy really. I mean people on the internet help me draw influence but those people are band members and that's about it. It was more like the people around me would copy everything I was doing and it would bother me. Anyways, you are so wise, keep doing what you are doing.
"Im an emo kid, non conformist as can be, you'll be non conformist to if you look just like me..."
i agree, people now feel like they can just appropriate any look without understanding it... i was really angry about it for awhile
I am 35 years in the culture and all i ever wear to a club are Doc Martens, black jeans and a shirt. None of the other "goths" here in germany ever called me "not goth enough".
LOVE THIS! This has been bugging me since people have been commenting on my meme page saying "I can't be goth cause I can't dress that way but I love the music." Trying to be uniquely you is suppose to be the super fun part of goth fashion, when you try to be a copy cat or "perfectly different" all the time it just causes stress and anxiety and that's just not worth it.
I couldn't agree more with this, goth is about an alternative lifestyle and being individual. Dressing like everyone else defeats the whole purpose, be yourself, thats the point 🦇💜🦇
I’m definitely a younger goth and have only been in the scene for nearly 2 years. I can relate to a lot of what you talk about. When I started, it was much easier to clone what others look like so I felt like I fit in. I started creating my own style, but I think that it’s still a lot more difficult purely because I’m not a very creative person. I struggle to create outfits or a look that looks amazing but also different and unique.
My look has also never been extreme. I worry that I’ll look like others, but I also never get comments about my look and so I feel a little insecure sometimes that I need to look more trad goth.
Anyway thanks for the video! I wish it were easier for me to be creative whilst also creating a look that feels representative of me.
Wow this whole subject just reminded me of Devo's song "freedom of choice".
I needed this. I'm a baby bat and really feel like I'm not 'doing it right' and I've forgotten that its about doing whatever the hell makes me feel good!