Surface Laptop 7 vs MacBook Air M3 - The ULTIMATE Battle
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- Which do you like best, and why?
👉 Our Snapdragon Review: • Snapdragon CoPilot+ La...
🏅Surface Laptop 7: howl.me/cmIYOg5tTjt
🛒 MacBook Air M3: howl.me/clL0EQNB1f2
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► Timestamps
00:00 Intro
00:25 Build Quality & Portability
01:29 Display
02:26 Keyboard
02:56 Trackpad
03:17 Performance
06:18 Battery Performance
07:12 Speakers
07:47 Connectivity
09:00 Stability
09:56 Value, Pricing, and Upgradeabiliy
10:39 Conclusion
11:48 So long and thanks for all the fish
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Our Snapdragon Laptop Analysis: th-cam.com/video/elpeaSO0MtY/w-d-xo.html
🏅Surface Laptop 7: howl.me/cmIYOg5tTjt
🛒 MacBook Air M3: howl.me/clL0EQNB1f2
Pls 🙏🙏🙏 Show the truth about the NPU!!!!
Apple M3 and Apple A17 Pro have an identical NPU. It's mean they have 35 TOPS in INT8 and 18 TOPS INT16 / FP16. Snapdragon X Elite has 45 TOPS INT8.
Thanks So much for the valuable content.
Thought of buying Windows Surface Laptop, after watching your Videos I just dropped my plan. I am a programmer and looking for Laptop.
I have a 2 laptops in my List, Could you please help me which one should I buy
1. 650 $ - Lenovo Ideapad 5 14" 2-in-1 Touchscreen Laptop - AMD Ryzen 7 8840HS - WUXGA (1920 x 1200) - Windows 11|16GB RAM|1 TB SSD OR
2. 799 $ ASUS Zenbook 14 inch OLED WUXGA Touch Laptop AMD Ryzen 7-8840HS 16GB RAM 512GB SSD Jade Black
You can buy Mac much cheaper. Why did you show Best Buy for Surface and apple official store for Mac?
I always say this: if you are testing the battery, test it until it completely runs out. Apple’s battery percentage is a scam. It decreases much slower initially and then increases the speed of reduction once it reaches lower percentage levels. On the other hand, Surface shows a steady decrease. This is not an assumption; I tested it, and this is the case with most Apple devices.
We are definitely planning to do this. We are a small team, but as we grow we are hoping to switch to this test. Hopefully very soon
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
True
@@JustJoshTech Stop using that as an excuse.Souds silly
fantasies
Of course its not possible to design perfect score system but in my opinion stability, performance or display should have bigger impact on final score than for example speakers. Things like crashing during call, keyboard not working or problems with charging in a NEW computer should result in substracting at least 10 to 15 points. These are major problems after all, not only small inconviences.
I totally agree. Whether or not it sounds okay when you use the speakers is not on the same level of importance as whether or not a computer can straight up work right. The scores should definitely be weighted on importance.
That ad stuff would be a deal breaker for me 😢
It depends where are you from, no ads in Europe
@@vladyslavmykhalyuk3252 What? I'm in Italy and I had to turn off all the notifications to avoid all the ads. It was a torture.
@@mrdosancos13687 From where i live. we get no ads. no need for youtube premuim
@@vladyslavmykhalyuk3252 Yeah, i've never understood this ad complaint. I'm in the UK & never see ads. I am pretty particular about how my laptop is set up & i'm pretty ruthless in tweaking the setting to my liking, so maybe i've done something to disable them?
It's easy to turn off those notifications. I have the 13.8 inch version of the laptop. No ads now
I would recommend adding a repairability score. The new surfaces are a monumental upgrade over the previous versions. Even taking the devices apart is so easy now.
yes, i also agree with it. earlier they were unrepairable. but now the chassis is changed and can easily be repaired. battery is component that needs repair every 3-4 years.
anyone who is considering a macbook probably doesn't give a hoot about repairability. If their laptop breaks they'll just get a new one
We're thrilled that you're a fan of the Sensel-powered haptic touchpad in the Surface Laptop 7!
Y'all eating synaptics' lunch rn 😅
As I wrote in a Reddit post I hope you guys at @SenselInc adapt the scroll behavior.
It has way to little to no momentum on short but fast 2 finger swipes.
Besides that I am a huge fan of these new touchpads and very glad finally having these types of touchpads in a windows laptop.
For battery test it should be done at a fixed workloads. Not running cinebench with different pc/cpus giving different results. One CPU is working harder than the other.
I feel like performance per watt does kinda fulfill this, but good point
AND CB24 is running natively on the Air and via emulation on a Surface
@@alexanderzhulin3528 CB24 is native on Surface too. CB23 is x86_64 only, but C24 has ARM64 version for Windows too.
@alexanderzhulin3528 it's native on Windows too.. but why do you don't even consider the possibility to get worst battery because of the 3x more power cores.. M3 only have 4 power cores but X Elite have 12 (even the M1 ultra only had 16 power cores, but they needed almost the same amount just to beat the basic chip..), more cores use more power (and 3x more power cores should give you 3x better performance not just 50% better..)
@@TamasKiss-yk4st I thought CB24 is not yet compiled for windows on ARM, my bad.
Didn't you just publish a video bashing LTT for their testing, just to publish this and confirm their results, only to add a smidge of additional context?
Why are you contradicting yourself so fast?
I had the same thought
Alex Ziskind still has the best way for testing these new laptops
Watt/performance issue he pointed out. And yeah that’s a big deal. Unless I’m missing something
LTT sucks.
He’s not. Surface Laptop won by 0.01% against M3 MacBook Airs. When M4 MacBook Airs launches in September, Apple will regain the crown.
Battery life on X is disappointing. Qualcomm clearly exaggerated. Looks like my next purchase would likely still be an AMD
I'm waiting for my Zenbook S16 to arrive at the end of the month and I'm definitely hopeful and keeping my fingers crossed, so I'm with you there. However, in the meantime, I'm messing around with the 15" SL7 and the battery life has been fantastic for my use case. Obviously it's not quite what's advertised but it is definitely an all day battery even with screen at max brightness.
I thinks it’s because of windows high performance mode being used. It can use up to double the wattage for similar tasks as the recommended while only providing less than %20 performance gain. They should have a better automatic power draw option for the snapdragon
I'm not exactly an Apple fanboy, but It seems a bit weird that one could point out some seemingly pretty huge (IMO) disqualifiers like intermittent crashing/lockups, a large number of missing/incompatible apps, or super-intrusive advertising (that often can't be turned off by mere mortals) and still declare that laptop the winner especially when the alternative doesn't have any of those issues. It seems adding up the numbers are sort of arbitrary since if you added Software Compatibility, Security, Privacy, or UX categories the MBA would pull far ahead (maybe a geometric mean might help, maybe not). Ignoring all that, I think the real question I'd ask someone looking to buy one of these laptops is to ask is if paying 10% less is worth having a system that is so much less reliable/stable that it'll lock up or not charge a noticeable percentage of the time, or that will have constant popups/ads for the lifetime use of a product (basically, built in instrusive malware!). Seems a bit crazy that anyone would put up with that to me.
This. Maybe I am biased since I own an M3 Air myself, but Windows on Arm just isn't the future... yet. The M3 Airs are the third generation of their lineup, and as such have immense advantages like a fully-functioning ecosystem of apps & features, software stability & availability, the comparison just isn't fair. And when Josh gave the MacBooks the score of only 4 points for connectivity when Surface has ONE whole USB-A port over the Air is ridiculous (the extra monitor you can power with the Snapdragon is useless if it's only at 30Hz, might as well not be included in the comparison), that was a weird choice in giving the Surface laptops an edge in that case. Did they even mention the power draw when connected to all these displays?
Not to mention that the power draw of the MacBooks means you can perform the same intensive tasks than the Snapdragon laptops can for 2 - 3 times longer is an insane plus for Apple. For any amateur or even a professional photo/video editor, the MacBooks are a clear win just for the power efficiency alone (8W compared to 35W at max load is crazy good, and deserves an 11/10 score).
MacBooks are still the king of battery life while staying mobile, and these Snapdragon Elite chips are only here to fix the Windows sleep problems that have plagued that platform for decades now. They can't *touch* the MacBooks in actual efficiency as of yet.
to be fair, he also didn't mention the issue with right to repair on macs while those surface laptops are pretty repairable.
Why?
I will tell you why and keep it 100% with you. In today's age, nobody gives two sh!ts about privacy or right to repair. People got used to it. Macs don't score any additional point on "privacy" or "security" because it doesn't make a difference in the real world. People would rather their laptops looked good than have upgradable ram or storage. And if people really cared about privacy, then they wouldn't be using tiktok/snapchat/instagram/[insert dystopian corpo here]. They would be using something like linux/graphineos combo without social media.
Arguing that Apple treats their customers better than Microsoft, and that Apple doesn't see you as a bag of money to be milked is funny. If that was the case then MacOS would make it less expensive to sign and compile the code, and they wouldn't send hashed of programs you run to heir HQ. Choosing between Apple and Microsoft literally doesn't matter. Microsoft and Apple are equal and saying otherwise just makes it likely to end up on one of the 4chan /g/ humor threads.
Well, he said, it isn't a clear win and depends on the use case. I for example have no issues with my laptop whatsoever, but I don't game and only use Arm native apps, except for one exception and that also works fine.
I use the M3 Air for C++ development on Linux. I'm quick to admit that I'm not a general user.
The project I work on requires developing and testing target software for Linux/Intel. Both laptops can run Linux on a VM for ARM architecture. But... Microsoft is nowhere close to supporting development of Linux/Intel, because if you want to do development for Intel architecture you need to either cross compile (not an option in our build environment and means I can't actually execute tests) or emulate (not virtualisation) Linux on Intel which means woeful performance and not energy efficient.
What Apple has up their sleeve is the ability to run Intel binaries on a Linux on ARM VM by using Rosetta 2 for Linux. This is a massive game changer for my development work. If Microsoft implements that Prism thing for Linux on ARM to efficiently run Intel binaries then it can compete in this space.
i think i turned off ads in my windows because i havent seen any
5:25 This is probably the most important part for me. The only reason I still use a macbook is cuz I want it to stay cool during moderate tasks like zoom calls, discord screen share or download big files from the web, and I still cant find any windows laptop that can compete it while having a similar battery life
Wait - 5/10 stability and u gave it an 83?? That should be a 50 at most - the flat score weights are nonsense. Stability should be a score ceiling - if ur crashing it doesn’t matter how nice the speakers/screen/keyboard are.
name me one program which isn't vscode, ms office, adobe product or chrome, doesn't run on those machines and is needed by a person which buys an ultrabook.
What? It shut off in the middle of a zoom call and the keyboard stopped working in word…. Those are basic tasks… there’s two programs for u. You basically cut out all corporate workers and students -- if all you're gonna do is dork around on the internet just buy a chromebook or cheap ipad - save yourself $1000.
If pressing 2 buttons keeps you from rejoining the call, you had a pretty good life.
In about a month or so those issues will be gone. Microsoft is really making a push into arm. I think that josh didn't take many points for the lack of stability, because it wasn't really an issue for him. He has been testing those laptop for about two weeks and those two issues are the only ones he had encountered. Most people don't manage nuclear reactors for a living. They can live with that. Besides, it will only get better from now.
It's pretty obvious @Rojfos that you bought one and are in the early stages of extreme denial. "Oh it shut off during a call?" -- no problem just reboot and join the call and they might have it sorted in a few months. LOL what... People are going to keep these things for years - he had two fails in two weeks...
My M1 MacBook Air also had kernel panics when new, but they're now completely gone. I'm glad I didn't consider it a dealbreaker and return it.
So LTT wasn’t wrong then?
Thought the same thing. LTT surely was, and this verdict is misleading.
@@sebastian_harnisch What am I missing here?
Galaxy book 4 pro (16 inch) please...Also I loved this video. These kinds of comparisons against other laptops with points really makes it easier for a potential customer to make the right decision. Hope u keep this up ❤❤
Just don't buy Samsung laptops
@@Silent_poet Why not?
@@Silent_poet U dont have an idea do u? Ik samsung laptops are too pricey and shit. But the non 360 16 inch does not have the problems of the 14 inch or the 360. Ive ordered mine. I'll be putting up a review in a few days
Don't ever do shockface again..
😮
Kid😂😂
True
Adding up the points is kind of pointless, when all of these categories aren't nearly of the same importance. Who cares about connectivity when you can't use your laptop because of some random issue? Who cares about slightly more performance, when in most cases you have to use a performance destroying translation layer? I use both windows and a macbook and I prefer windows, but I don't think I'd recommend a snapdragon laptop to anyone, if they ask me, especially when I'd have to be the support.
I get you, but it's basically an average, because everybody weights differently each category.
@@Winnetou17Battery life and stability are clearly more important than stuff like the Wifi version, it's not even close.
@@Winnetou17 I agree that per category scoring is actually useful since it lets a user decide what matters to them, but it does seem like there needs to be a pass/fail line, and if you're going to total it up for an overall winner, it clearly needs to be multiplicative or weighted in some ways or something. You could have the fastest laptop in the world, but if it had 10 minutes of battery life, could it be recommended to anyone? Similarly, you could have an extremely cheap laptop (such a great value!) but if it has an unpleasantly bad display that makes it a pain to use. Or lets say it is clearly better in every category, but has hard lockups/crashes multiple times a day - even if the average score is highest, could you say that it is the winning laptop over one that does everything decently well but has rock solid stability? If not, then it's the scoring system/conclusion that's wrong and needs to be corrected.
@@marceldiezasch6192 Yes, thouuugh, I really hope you didn't got influenced by that crazy "where are the web page render tests?" guy/gal. Because battery life and stability were each a category on its own, Wi-Fi wasn't, so it already was significantly less important in the score.
Also, while battery life is extremely likely not not be improved (though these are very new and clearly not fully polished devices, so there's hope) the stability in general is likely to improve, because it's mostly based on the software, drivers & firmware (basically all software) which can be improved as time goes by, and especially so in this case. Also, the stability was pretty heavily penalized.
@@lhl I do think that there is a pass/fail line. If any of the cases you mentioned would've been present, this video would'n've existed in the first place, as a "competition" like this would not have been put by Josh or whatever other channel.
Also that fastest laptop in the world, but can only last 10 minutes ? I would get that. I already have a desktop replacement, a heavy 17" inch laptop (heavy because it's almost 8 year old, back then people were surprisingly able to have and carry 4 kg laptops, somehow today nobody can) which I never planned to use on battery and never did. The GPU cannot be turned off (doesn't have Optimus, even though some laptops from that era have) and I don't think it was ever good more than several hours on battery save and 1 hour on a decent performance profile. The battery is literally an integrated UPS.
And before that I had a Toshiba laptop that had terrible cooling and in just 2 years (of pretty heavy use, admitedly) the battery died. By that I mean that the laptop would not boot with the battery connected, even if plugged to the wall. But would boot if the battery was disconnected and the laptop was plugged to the wall. Which is how I used it for another 1/2 a year before I got this laptop.
That cheap laptop would also be very useful when you have 1-2 external monitors, like I do at work.
But I got your point. The Surface laptop doesn't seem to be so gimped. The stability was not good, but wasn't that gigantic of a deal either if, from multiple laptops, they had only 3 problems in more than a week. Below the average, but still usable by most people.
Thank you for your substantive work, which I’m sure is continuing to earn the confidence of the community.
He awarded the Surface the win (and points) for having WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6....but did ZERO web rendering tests? I bet the MBA M3 CRUSHES the Surface in ANY webpage rendering/loading test.....WiFi 7 or not ! ...and yea, no point deductions for hardware lockup and software crashes (on everyday basic tasks) on the Surface....Really ???
I must say I'm disappointed by your perspective! Battery life and stability are very important for laptops. Most of the users simply do not know if their software is going to work in the future. A snapdragon based laptop should not even be considered until we get full app support for ARM. How can it win your test if there are stability problems even with basic tasks? You have called out LTT on misleading consumers. I feel the same with this video! FYI, I do not support Linus whatsoever. I don't even watch his videos anymore due to lack of critical information. If you would have made this video 6 months later, then it might have been justified. But as of now, your verdict is wrong.
He awarded the Surface the win (and points) for having WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6....but did ZERO web rendering tests? I bet the MBA M3 CRUSHES the Surface in ANY webpage rendering/loading test....the perfect platform AGNOSTIC testing available!! .....WiFi 7 or not ! ...and yea, no point deductions for hardware lockup and software crashes (on everyday basic tasks) on the Surface....Really ???
I just feel like his ratings are missing a weighting system.
There is no way Wifi 7 instead of Wifi 6E should be worth the same as having better battery life or higher performance.
For non-pro-users stability is not as important as it is for people who use their device for their job. I couldn't use a laptop for daily web conferences when it randomly crashes; but if you just want a high quality device for media consumption, stability is just not that big of a deal.
@@marceldiezasch6192 If you bring an order to the different ratings with some higher valued and some lower, different ordering systems would have to be specified to different user profiles as well. For example: Better battery life is completely irrelevant for those who use their device plugged in the whole time. There is no useful general weighting system.
5 points off for stability for the surface watch the video apple fanboy
What color is the dark macbook air? Seems too dark for space grey and not blue enough for midnight?
I've said for years that the Windows laptop best suited to compete with the MacBook Air is the Mircosoft Surface Laptop. It seems that Microsoft has been listening to the complaints that a lot of user have. However, I'm majorly disappointed in the rating of the new keyboard. IMO, the Surface Laptops used to that best laptop keyboards around it wasn't close. They've gotten away from that in recent models and I don't understand why.
Have you tried putting hands on. New Surface Laptop has the best keyboard! Try it in Bestbuy or somewhere before making assumptions.
Josh, for programming preferences, its not highlighted which you used to do. Any plans? Java, Python, Go, Rust all have ARM compatibility and same as IDe and Docker and WSL etc. Would be good to have detailed one if possible.
It can't be, it takes a long time for Word to run on my Air m1, have you completely unloaded it from RAM on a Mac?
Love this comparison. It's straight forward and data driven. Both machines are great for the right person.
Hate to ask a dumb question, but how do I know for sure which apps will run on the Surface?
I think it is a great question, and I want to learn more about it
You're welcome for the fish Josh!
Also, the x elite laptop performed amazingly. Very surprised that it was overall better yet there's so many puppets hating them in the comments.
IMO it's a mix of people either loving Macs/Intel/AMD or people that bought an X Elite device believing they could play AAA games on high settings (something that was never claimed by Qualcomm). There's of course also a few people that bought these without checking if their very specific software could run on it or not.
It's absolutely valid not to like these, their option is simply not to buy them.
Apple fan boys are bashing it. MacOs is horrible and not more stable than a proper windows machine. Windows on ARM will add another flavor to the OS. X86-64 for desktop and ARM on portable devices
Well, who would hate “one of their own” or their products? A little bit of history. In 2019, three former Apple engineers left Apple to form Nuvia, a company specializing in designing ARM based chips. Nuvia was purchased by Qualcomm in 2021 for a cool 1.4 billion dollars and for that amount, Qualcomm purchased Nuvia’s intellectual property rights and their top engineering talent. Those three former Apple engineers, who worked on the M1 chips and founded Nuvia also joined Qualcomm. Of course, one of those engineers also happened to be the former CHIEF CPU architect at Apple. Three years later, the PC world is blessed with essentially an updated M1 chip design now known as the Snapdragon X Elite and X Plus family of ARM chips.
But a computer is more than the chip that powers it. And so far, Apple’s computer designs enjoy a demonstrated advantage in power efficiency and hardware reliability. When the soon to be released M4 family of chips going into Apple laptop computers become available, IMO, Apple will still maintain a two year hardware chip advantage over Qualcomm’s family of laptop chips.
You keep saying the surface is great for people doing light tasks, ie web and office applications. Aside from locally running MS Office, do you think there is any significant advantage to running WoA over ChromeOS right now? Assuming you could find similar performance ARM chips in both.
I need to check more ChromeOS laptops, which we haven't done yet - but my hypthosesis is it will come down to the quality of the overall device. Alot of ChromeOS laptops seem to be rather cheap, but I do know there are some expensive ones. This is a great video idea, let me see if we can get one in (premium priced ChromeOS laptop)
There is a huge advantage to WoA for some users. As a .NET developer, I used my previous WoA 2-in-1 as my travel development/work machine, and I plan to use my Surface Pro 11 in the same way. The ability to run Visual Studio and other proper development tools is huge. For similar purposes, a Chromebook or an iPad Pro would be completely useless to me.
Great vid as always Josh and team. Focused on results and and facts.
Would love to see a comparison between core ultra and x elite in this format, with the 2 best devices. It could be spectre vs surface 7, as it beat the x elite in battery test and do not have any of the compatibility issues...
What a great and fair review. I am still on the bench. This review will help me to make a decision soon. Thank you.
The scoring on this video makes no sense. It’s all over the place and really inconsistent 👎🏼
What we should have said is "We are here to bring you the facts, our scoring though is subjective. Feel free to adjust based on how you see it, or even weight our scores differently based on what's important to you." I thought this was implied, but I should have made it clearer. That being said we did think very hard about each score. So effort did go into them
*If only Surface had MORE GPU power* 😢😢😢
Credo che tra un anno ce l’avrà e avrà nvidia come scheda video
Thanks. What might be an upgrade to this, that has an OLED touch?
Are you kidding? Advertising and a fan to get rid of heat leading to lower efficiency means the surface is a sad laptop. No chance of me buying a laptop with a fan ever again. And advertising is absolutely a deal breaker.
At the moment you really can't recommend the Snapdragon Arm laptops due to too much incompatibility. Naturally things will improve overtime but following your personal recommendation (as of time of video publish date) that the Surface is better is bizarre. I'd hate to spend that much money and find that half the apps I run are emulated due to no Arm version and thus slower, let alone totally incompatible apps leading to worse stability. The Macbook on the other hand, we know it's stable, highly unlikely to randomly just turn off and software compatibility is top notch, even the older apps running under Rosseta.
Excellent presentation! I really really like your format!
Are you certain the NPU numbers were at the same precision?
The NPU numbers he's published is just for the NPU itself. But remember a GPU can do heavy lifting (e.g. look at 4090 which completely decimates all NPUs even though its a general GPU) and the M3 has a very decent 10 core GPU (those 2 extra cores come in handy here).
The job of the NPU is to be more power efficient, but overall the M3 Air is still very power efficient even during these AI tasks.
Why wasn’t system bloat/adware it own 1 to 10 score? Seems as important as the other factors. Basically you said Mac is 10 and Windows is 9. That seems very generous to Windows.
ONE point deducted for spqmming ads LOL!
Hi Josh, I really appreciate all your laptop reviews and how much effort you put into them, but there's a huge problem - which isn't your fault - pricing outside the US.
Comparing the US prices from your website to the best prices in Germany:
• Default MacBook Air M1 | 699$ vs 789€
• Zenbook 14 OLED 2024 | 799$ vs 999€
• Default MacBook Air M2 | 799$ vs 949€
• Surface Laptop 7 13 2024 | 999$ vs 1199€
• Yoga 9i 14 2-1 2024 | 1299$ vs 1847€
Also many of the Lenovo laptops aren't even availabe with the exact configuration.
I know you can't change much about this problem but I hope I can get your attention.
Thanks Josh and team…another balanced and comprehensive review!!👍🏼
He awarded the Surface the win (and points) for having WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6....but did ZERO web rendering tests? I bet the MBA M3 CRUSHES the Surface in ANY webpage rendering/loading test.....WiFi 7 or not ! ...and yea, no point deductions for hardware lockup and software crashes (on everyday basic tasks) on the Surface....Really ???
Josh is putting himself in a difficult position: criticizing someone else rather harshly (rightly so, in my opinion), but then drawing a misleading conclusion himself. Why? Would have been a very informative and balanced video otherwise. Still appreciate the hard work put into this video.
You didn't feel my conclusions were reasonable? Which were... It depends on what you value as to which is right for you. I personally would buy the Air based on my use case, but many people would prefer the Surface base on theirs
@@JustJoshTech Honestly no! The problem is not so much the additional context you provide. In fact, you do a fantastic job there!
The problems:
a) Just summing the points for each category distorts the results massively.
b) Declaring the Surface the winner when it clearly has major compatibility and stability issues is not reasonable, and many seem to agree.
One could argue that it's fine for simple tasks. Until it crashes. And we software devs might have a chance to somehow fix it (sometimes), but the people buying it for simple tasks might not.
I hate all those ADs on the Windows laptops. You only subtracted one (1) point? Maybe it's time to get a Mac?
What a terrible piece of journalism, i hope you dont influence people to buy the heap of shit surface over a stable macbook
That was clearly mentioned in the video. Did you see the section on stability?
1:36 There is a mistake. You mark MacBook Air 13 und 15.
1:39 and here too.
Josh, what do you think about OLED laptops? You reccomended Zenbook 14 oled in one video, as one of the best laptop in 2024, but I wonder if those laptops are safe from the screen burn in.
Nice. Say, how are Snapdragons selling compared to Intel models?
Given that other manufacturers have been able to achieve thin bezels with good cameras and other sensors, the notch on the MacBook is looking like more and more outdated for a premium laptop, and is probably a choice they should revisit.
great review mate! problem is microsoft in europe is too expensive, the plus version is 1300 euros while i can get the m3 air for 1099 euros. but i did really like the surface laptop 7, just needs more software tweaking and better prices in here..
IMPORTANT: if some of those points are for you not as important then others, maybe you focus more on battery life then on accessibility, then you can list all those criteria and multiply those points from 1 to 100% being 100% the most important one. after you have done this sum all those numbers up and you have your own true winner
what if you go for the macbook 256gb and 16gb ram config and then get an external ssd
One question, in surface laptop Can I charge the laptop through the USB C ports?
You can. Just be aware occasionally it doesn't. You may have to close the lid and open it or restart the laptop. So after you plug in, just double check it registers as charging
Yours and Pete Matheson's videos feel like the best on these new machines. The hype train has been unreal. Still nice machines and optimistic for gen 2/3 on these.
Excellent overview, thanks
The lack of software compatibility on the surface laptop 7 is not a win. It can't even run exam proctoring software, which is a must for ANY student (particularly in college). Having to worry about the laptop shutting down in the middle of a project, presentation, or test is also not acceptable. Very disappointing and misleading by Microsoft.
Because of this, the Macbook wins for me and most students.
yes I'm just gonna wait 1-2 years to buy snapdragon laptop 😂😂
The MacBook can't run that either except through Rosetta 2, which is good, but not perfect.
Give it time; the Surface Laptop will eventually get the software, otherwise, bug the company making said software or switch software.
Proctoring software? Must for college students? What the fuck? Of all the software you could have said you said one of the worst software for the user privacy and autonomy over their system? Yikes.
@@cameronbosch1213 Lol. After all these years my Surface Pro 5 is still full of bugs. Microsoft doesn't give a fuck.
@@itIsI988 I didn't say use a Surface product. I said don't use a Mac.
The Achilles heel of the Qualcomm Elite SoCs is their GPU. Qualcomm should allow laptop manufacturers to pair their Elite SoCs with Nvidia GTX GPUs. If they did that, it appears that they would be nearly as fast as the $5000 MacBook Max laptops. Based on Qualcomm's success in the mobile phone arena, once they get their compatibility and reliability issues worked out and they allow Nvidia discrete GPUs to be added to their SoC, they could dominate Apple. It is clear that Qualcomm knows how to build powerful, energy-efficient CPUs for their SoCs. If they greatly improve their GPUs they connect to their SoC, and optimize their SoC to work with the most used software applications, they will sell a LOT of laptops because people are getting tired of Apple's arrogant attitude towards its customers.
Hey Josh. With regards to your surface charging issues, it is not only for arm devices. It's a surface issue. My Pro 7+ has issues connecting to its surface charger. That's an Australian one so it's not an arm problem, just a surface issue. Not sure why tho.
Josh you are always so good at cutting through BS but this video wasn't really hitting the mark. The connectivity being 4 vs 8 just for Wi-Fi 6E vs 7...like...what? That difference alone could've made the MacBook win. Also, declaring a winner for screen without testing flickering or color accuracy (gamut ≠ accuracy). And design is simply subjective so how do you rate them the same when one laptop wobbles on a desk and is heavier (plus they have different UI design and software build quality).
You declare the surface a winner for those seeking light tasks and basic apps with native arm support but the MacBook is simply more reliable for these customers who likely have not much programming + tinkering experience. That means they probably prefer the MacBook having no advertisements, no crashing, no fan noise. These things alone are a much bigger deal than how your video makes them seem. I think it would be helpful to point out that the price increase seems worthwhile for most in this regard.
Very, very few people would truly be happy and not run into issues with these new snapdragon laptops. They're not inherently bad, but they are first gen and buggy. And Josh, you of all would know that products should not be bought for the promise of a less buggy or more feature packed future.
Hope this is a helpful piece of criticism. I absolutely love your team's effort and this video is still great! Y'all got this.
I should have made it clearer.... Connectivity included ports. This is a new thing for us. Technically ports are Connectivity. But we should have said "Connectivity & Ports" before we showed the Score.
Re your second point, thats why I said a) It depends on what's important to you, and b) I personally would buy the Air
Microsoft appears to be unwavering in its support to transitioning to ARM based computers. Apple has gone through these kinds of things in the past and created huge headaches for developers, but they did mostly catch up. I'm sure that developers will start to move to ARM for Windows when they see that Microsoft is all in and users demand it as well. Might take a while though to get there, but these new ARM laptops clearly show what the future looks like for Windows on ARM.
I’m always extremely confused why we never talk about the MacBooks at their lowest possible price which comes from the student discount section on Apple’s website that is available to everyone regardless of being a student or not
You get student discounts on the Surface devices as well, so that's pointless. You have to evaluate a product by their regular price.
@@rowaystarco The difference is that the Microsoft student discount actually requires a valid email and verification. It also expires after a certain time. The Apple Store student discount is limited to 1 product per year per account but who’s buying that many laptops. The Apple student discount shouldn’t even be considered a “discount”. It’s quite literally a lower price. That’s why it’s fair to compare them
How can a laptop win any race with 5/10 for stability point. Now you are the LTT!
As usual, excellent real world comparisons. I've been keeping an eye on the new Snapdragon laptops as a replacement for my wife's aging VivoBook S15, but I'm holding off until Microsoft works out the stability and compatibility issues.
Well done comparison! However, I wonder how big the cross section of people who would consider Windows over MacOS, or vice-versa, when I see comparisons like this. Maybe it's larger than I know, but I am 100% Windows, but considered MacOS b/c of battery life over the past few years. I am happy that I don't have to switch now that the Snapdragon chips are as good, or better. I am a happy owner of a Surface Laptop 7 13.8". It's perfect for my mobile use cases, and I have a powerful desktop that I use for AAA gaming, which MacOS would have never been able to replace for me and neither can the Windows on Arm laptops. Either way, I appreciate the fair albeit fully subjective review. Great job!
Hey Josh. I am gonna start studying IT this summer, and i was wondering if you can recommend me a laptop for that? Some of the tasks that i will be doing, is programming, networking and running virtual machines.
Mate, we are literally writing the script for this video right now! Hang tight. Should be out late next week
@@JustJoshTech Thank you❤️
Hey Josh, can you make a video on Linux compatibility on Snapdragon Elite processors? Or a short post.
Nothing bootable yet despite Qualcomm demoing Ubuntu pre release
@@shApYT yeah I really would like to use Linux on it. No way I'm using Microtrash Trashdows
@@shApYT yeah I'd like to use Linux on it. Really can't stand Windows
@@yugalkhanal6967 same
@@yugalkhanal6967 go Asahi
A 7 for the macbook display? Have you even compared the contrast and the blacks on them? The blacks on the Air is incredibly better compared to the Surface Book 7. Not to mention the glossy finish on the Surface making it a pain to use in bright environments. The only thing going for the Surface's display is the 120Hz display. The image and the resolution is much better on the Air
Even though tough, this is a worthy comment
@@JustJoshTech also I would be interested how many lines of code you can comfortably see on each display
I had high hopes for these Surface ARM laptops but they just aren't ready for a production environment.
I can't have a laptop that might not be able to run certain programs, crashes on others, and is generally unreliable.
Maybe the 2nd gen will be better, assuming Microsoft continues to focus on Windows for ARM.
Frankly, you should've expected a first gen to not be ready for a production environment, especially at launch. It might be ready in 1 year. And it should (for their sake) be ready with the 2nd generation.
If the first generation wont get better a second wont help at all. Youll need to watch software development.
I would like to give a recommendation in testing laptops. Can you also show how the UEFI looks like, and what all options and settings they provide? This will be good for messing around or troubleshooting purposes, that you have access to a lot of these settings. OEMs have a very bad habit to lock down a lot of such firmware features, and for me, it has been really annoying. For example, changing the CPU voltage (either for undervolting, or troubleshooting purposes), lifting power limits, etc.
4:46 Not sure if conclusions from the power draw comparison was reflected accurately. The surface is not using an integrated storage like macbooks among many other components and also has its fans running during the test. I think the design of the components of the Surface are intentional, sacrificing efficiency in favour of repairability and versatility.
Beside the issues with crashing and compatibility - I really would like to switch to a portable long-lasting windows machine without any fan noise and powerful enough to render videos and picture editing. So I had higher hopes, that the Snapdragon would be a breakthrough for windows users.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to do silent video and photo editing for hours on the go, there is no way around a MacBook and if you choose the oldest iteration, they aren't that expensive. Sadly, I miss a lot of Windows applications, which wouldn't run on Mac OS (but I doubt they will run with ARM windows machines).
The Mac running rock solid while the Windows machine keeps crashing? Oh well, some things never change...... >:-)
My Pro 11 has not crashed yet, some unsupported games crashed, but those games would not launch on a Mac eitehr.
This is.. an unusual situation though. *Turn humor on.. yes things never change >:)
@@rowaystarcoGuess that you never run Adobe. Kind of important to professionals.
@@tringuyen7519 Because there's Davinci that professionals also use. Adobe is a POS software company.
2015 windows HP laptop hasn’t crashed once. But ok apple fanboy
Josh and team putting out the best, most relevant, objective laptop content right now!
Gotta love it!
It seems that Windows on Parallels on a Mac is more stable than the one on other machines natively. And that software compatibility... nobody is giving 1300€ just for light task. MBA with M1 can do that for years from now.
yep - totally agree. I would much rather have a stable machine than a beta product for this price.
Stability in this test, certainly not the experience across many M series MacBooks at work, simple tasks like using Finder can be quite buggy.
I believe some catergories like Performance and stability should have more weightage than other. So, same scoring system shouldnt be used for those.
If you go to the their website, you can see a chart of the results, then you use whatever multipliers you wish to emphasize certain categories. For example you could multiple Performance and Stability x2. Conversely, you could also de-emphasize certain other categories as well.
if you really cared about performance then you wouldn't be using an ultrabook
Absolutely agree -- it's like reviewing a car and going 'This car is super awesome, I mean sometimes it shuts off on the highway, but other than that, HIGHLY RECOMMEND!' Hold up... what?
He awarded the Surface the win (and points) for having WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6....but did ZERO web rendering tests? I bet the MBA M3 CRUSHES the Surface in ANY webpage rendering/loading test.....WiFi 7 or not ! ... and yea, no point deductions for hardware lockup and software crashes on the Surface....Really ???
@@goobfilmcast4239 performance includes web browsing. wifi7 makes a huge difference when downloading data
Incredible well detailed comparison josh
Great review as usual but i have to disagree on scoring.. how's marginal differences in connectivity given a difference of 4 points (in favour of surface), but annoying ads deduct only 1 point. Ads make a noticeable difference in user experience.
This feels so pro surface..
For connectivity, we were including ports. I should have made that clearer. I will in future. Hope that helps
Subscribed for the ad spamming penalty! Very much deserved 😂
The knock I have with these types of reviews is that influencers rarely take longevity into account in their reviews. I would appreciate reviews which examine performance, a year after release. It's easier to give glowing reviews to new hardware. My question is: will these laptops survive the test of time? 3 or 4 years down the road, which of these will still be in use?
Add the annual cost of Office/Productivity/Creativity software on the Surface.
With any Windows PC the cost of software means it starts getting more expensive about 15 months after purchase.
That's ignoring the endless Apple support you get from Apple Stores. On Win dows you are on your own except for hardware support and that runs out at the end of the warranty.
When do you guys can get your hands on the new ASUS TUF A14?
Really interested to see how the new Zen5 CPUs perform.
I need a new laptop as I am starting college in September. My program is Computer Systems Technician and will only support the use of a Windows laptop. I initially found the surface laptop a potentially good choice, but it seems like it's not going to be very reliable. Another choice that seems like it may be good is the asus zenbook. Would you recommend it as a good choice, or should I be looking at something else?
Given your role as primarily a windows system technician, I would probably go with a machine that is not Windows for ARM, and is instead non-ARM Windows 11. You will run less compatibility risks. Just look at his other recent recommended laptop suggestions that are not Snapdragon. But, if you get this, you'll probably be ok in the long run.
@Kinetic79 Thank you for your advice. Yes, after my research, it seems like I should just stay clear of any of the new ARM based laptops. What I should have clarified in my original comment is that the asus zenbook I was looking at was one with the new intel ultra processors. Although after looking at the requirements for my program and what's available right now, it really seems like I can't go wrong as long as I pick a non arm laptop from one of the bigger name companies like asus, lenovo, hp, etc.
I will go on with my M2 MacBook Air thank you.
I would
I watched this video on my phone on my lunch break today and liked it so much i chose to watch it again now in high res on my studio display at home. What a great comparison, and I think you were pretty fair, if maybe a little tougher on the MBA than I would have been (though you gave thoughtful reasons for the lower scores). The biggest issue with the Air for me (I'm a Mac guy, BTW. I only use Windows for work because I have to) is the lack of 120hz. I wouldn't even mind the IPS panel. It feels like a wasted opportunity for Apple not to offer a 120hz display option since I would gladly pay for that. I really want the thinness of the MBA but I am forced to use a MBP because i really value the higher refresh rate. I do a ton of reading on my computer, and scrolling while reading text is plain more enjoyable with 120hz vs 60. (With that said, I think it is also about time we get a high refresh rate first party display from Apple; i am pretty sure that current gen ports can handle a 5k 120hz display, and I am quite confident Apple can make that work. Quinn from Snazzy Labs explained that pretty well in a video some months or maybe a year ago.)
Thank you nice comment
Whelp.
How the Lenovo X runs in few months is what I'm most curious about.
Mostly because I hate the notch and bezels on my M2 air. I thought I'd get used to it but it's just the laziest design on the market.
I do appreciate the unbiased and level headed coverage.
I'd be keen to see the 2nd gen Qualcomm processors when they have more competition from intel and AMD and have had time to figure out performance/watt better.
Great video. Please compare Surface Laptop Studio 2 and 14 inch MB Pro, as well.
can you cover the news of linux on xelite pls.?? what is happening with linux on arm. I remember seeing a video where ubuntu was running on xelite in the qualcomm event..
The NPU comparison is ridiculous for 2 reasons: (1) Apple gave 18 TOPS as a the max performance for FP16, the numbers of the SDXE are for INT8 which is much faster. (2) the theoretical max performance is much less important than whether the NPU is utilised regularly by the OS - Apple does this since a decade with their A series chips and now since 4y with the M series.
By the way: single core performance is much more important for every day (work) usage than multi core.
No, I’m not an Apple fanboy but a 30y windows user who switched 3y ago to MacOS and enjoyed this as a huge relief
If I have to watch YT and doing basic finger scrolling coupled with very light gaming... Why not just get a tablet with KB and mouse?
I dunno, perhaps X Elite is far more suitable for Chrome OS?
I recently discovered your channel and have generally liked your laptop tests. However, your subjective scores seem laughably biased against Apple in certain areas. I'm sorry, but a MacBook Air keyboard is not a 6 in any world, and the Surface Laptop's trackpad is not a 10 (especially when they don't even bother to size it up on the 15" model). This resulted in the MacBook Air "losing", which is pretty ridiculous for anyone that doesn't run Windows-exclusive software. I say this as someone that uses Windows and Mac machines.
Firstly, thank you. I should have said this in the video. "Our scores are subjective, and we encourage you to weight them as to what's important to you. We just want to present you with information to help you do that". As it is dependent on your use case
Josh is excelling in these reviews. His presentation is clear, concise, and informative, making it easy for everyone to understand. Imagine if everyone performed their jobs as diligently as you do. 10 of 10 for your video! 👏
Would be nice to see how these ARM behaves in 1 year and do this video again. If compatibility gets perfect, it will be a clear win for Surface (and Windows/Microsoft).
In the UK, the MB Pro 14 M3 16GB/1TB is only £150 more expensive than the Surface Laptop 15, which has the same specs! So, I would say that a fairer comparison would be these.
Also, you are comparing Apple Store MB Air prices when retailers offer them for much less. For example, the base M2 has been as low as $800! In the UK, the MB Air 16GB/512GB on Amazon is £50 cheaper than the Surface Laptop 13 with the same specs. So you are misleading people on the value part, as I suspect at Amazon US, the Air prices will be much lower than you stated. Influencers tend to "forget" that if you want to buy an Apple device, you must buy from third-party retailers, as Apple rarely reduces its store pricing. Remember, Apple now sells off-the-shelf 16GB configs available for discounts.
Basic printer drivers issue and no Google drive is just crazy. God know what other apps and drivers will not work on snapdragon. Stability issues you mentioned is a non starter!!!! Omg
It's the first step in right direction for windows on arm and MS nailed it, It will get better overtime but the 2nd and even the 3rd gen of these chips will be so good with performance and efficiency.
When M1 was released, it had many issues so eventually it should get better for these guys.
Really glad you included the X Plus model of SL7. X Elite in that chassis is a waste of money.
There's a misunderstanding about the RAM capacity. The surface laptop is not using the unified memory architecture as Apple's platform. So the 16G RAM on the surface laptop equals 8G RAM plus 8G VRAM. However, on the MacBook, the GPU data doesn't need to copied again from memory. The RAM utilization will be much efficient on Apple platform. Thus, the experience of 16GB Surface Laptop is more close to that of 8G MacBook Air (maybe 10G if exists). For example, If you run a game like Baldur's Gate 3, you can see much memory（RAM and VRAM) usage on the laptops using the Snapdragon SoCs.
Are people still believing the 8GB = 16GB marketing hype? It's been tested, and it's really not true.
@@dansanger5340 It’s true not marketing. I tested native games on M1 Pro and windows. The ram usage is much lower.
I was really hoping for (almost)fanless and cool (temperature) experience when doing office work... Looks like I must wait a few years more.... using my noisy Surface Laptop 4 =D
Love your reviews!
I must have an exceptional Surface Laptop 7 15-inch model because I haven't had any crashes and none of those pop-ups. I don't game on it, so no issues on that end. MS Office work very well and so does Outlook. I'm guessing some people are having issues and some aren't. After some firmware updates those bugs should be worked out.
Using a MacBook, I played an old game on Crazy Games, which used HTML5, and the graphics flickered and disappeared while playing. If any computer can't handle browser games reliably, it's junk at any price.
Not bad for there first try to beat apple m series
This basically comes down to do you need Windows, MacOS or either? If you the answer is either it suggests you're not a power user and truly pick whatever you like with the caveat that the Windows ARM may require a bit more fiddling to get some apps to work. If Microsoft continues to fine tune Windows on Arm the experience may get better.