Jordan Peterson - Why Creative People Fail At School
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2023
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This is something I thought was extraordinarily cool. What predicts academic ability, for example, at the University of Toronto? Is intelligence, obviously, but also conscientiousness. The correlation between creativity and grades at the U of T is zero . You know, it's easy to be cynical about that.
But one of the things you have to understand about creative people is that they continually step outside the domain of evaluation structures...Jordan Peterson - Why Creative People Fail At School
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#education
The education system wants you to be smart enough to follow orders but not enough to question them
Frrr
Brilliant! True!
The clotshot was a prime example of this.
@@thystaff742 The most extreme, colossal, alarming case in history. They're not letting us out of it now, either.
Because schools start from religion and company. But they never obey what they do is copying. Which is the reason they bluff when someone ask them for help that is different among the rest. They will keep failing if they can only the is measure people for the sake right. Because but not doing things for totally right. For them if this measured we are sure for success even not. We only do is just sustain what we but never maintain what we have.
Creative people don't fail at school. School fails creative people.
The issue is that we live in a dictatorial regime that licenses and accredits schools, and therefore "legislates truth."
And even worse, the people believe that they consent to their government, because the government tells them so. They will never question this lie.
Yeah so true 🥲
So right! ❤
You are absolutely right!❤
Because schools are dictatorial institutions that serve an all-powerful government.
I was at an art school in Munich. I had a different style of drawing compared to others in cladd. I was praised by my fellow students but my teacher was insisting that I'm not doing it the orthodox way. I was punished for being creative and having my own style. She actually managed to make me leave art and turn my creativity into media. Today I'm a successful filmmaker, photographer and Digital artist. I hate school
Jeez that was close
Remember, u are a good painter. REMEMBER.
@@seriousguy2160 this is how Holocausts happen
Glad you found a creative path. Rarely do the most creative people become teachers
I feel you lol.but at that same time I like learning new things
As someone who is considered creative, I struggled a lot in school. I think it was probably because I was always thinking of new ideas and stories. I used to draw quick sketches in class and once I got caught and was told to throw away my drawings. I literally cried because of that so during recess I said I had to use the bathroom but I snuck over to the trash can and pulled the still undamaged sketches out and took them home that afternoon. I still have them today 6 years later.
Bravo! NEVER let ANYONE dictate to you 'how to be' or 'what to do'.
I'd have fired that teacher on the spot. That was abusive to you. (Both my parents are teachers and they'd have been appalled by that sort of behaviour by your teacher).
@@andreaandrea6716 my parents were pretty upset about the whole situation
@@mustin07doesgaming Oh! Good! You were blessed with good parents!
Being creative can help you see solutions others don’t though. Maybe it’s not easy to measure with grades consistently, but creative people find solutions to problems that others wouldn’t visualize
@@usernameonutube SO true!
Thank you! I am an artist and I struggled in school immensley. My father is a doctor, my brother a lawyer. My former husband a computer scientist. I always felt from another planet. I always was incredibly creative since childhood. But in my former jobs it was not welcome at all. Now I am 55 years old. I quitt my job, because I couldn`t take it anymore! Now I just paint, because I am an artist. And finally I am happy!!!
I'm happy for you!! Being a creative person, it's difficult to feel fulfillment in what one does. You feel like a caged animal.
How much in savings do you have?
Crap.. I'm a creative person and just landed a job in IT. Im scared. But i do feel like i kinda have to be somewhat creative with people, it's a helpdesk job so i know i still will need my customer service creativity at least.
Maybe you're starseed
If your really creative you can find a way to leverage it. Don't follow your passion, bring it with you.
If a creative person shuts down or suppresses his creativity, he becomes destructive. If he cant destroy anything in the outside world, he turns on himself and become self-destructive. Creativity is like a severe itch, if you don't scratch it, you go crazy.
People tend to tell me I'm creative and I somewhat agree. But I also am quite lazy, I can work on something then be weeks and months without doing anything, until the itch arrives. I envy those who have the "grindset" mentality who are constantly pushing themselves.
You cannot not be creative, that's your nature. Whether your creative expression is recognized by the society is irrelevant. You are constantly creating your reality, you are constantly creating yourself. You can see real creativity is much more profound than societies standards of creativity. Only problem is most people create their reality and themselves unconsciously. Conscious creativity is the goal. @@GoldenLeafsMovies
This is so accurate, literally what's happening to me. I feel like I'm going crazy every day I'm not creating (I'm a writer) but rotting away in my room and wasting time on TH-cam and social media.
Same. I'm so addicted to TH-cam. I don't like to work jobs, it's like when I work I feel mentally drained. I don't even know if I am creative, if I am I don't know where to start. At the moment I'm stagnant in life. I be trying to come to TH-cam, search on Google to look for directions in life, but here I am now still in bed. 😂 @senekiss
My fellow creatives, always remember the golden rule: be prolific, not perfect. Keep producing, and you'll make it.
To be creative you often have to have a very analytical mind. Sometimes it’s easy to overthink a simple question in an exam for example whereas in art you have so many considerations to observe before you produce a successful painting. You are thinking outside the box all the time.
To be creative means you ARE analytical or vice-versa.
Those two things are synonymous but I believe creativity is usually always prescribed to artists like photographers and painters or sculptors but never to architects, engineers or even plumbers, electricians and mechanics.
The analytical side of ones brain works by having the ability to create strong visualizations from which the solutions can flow whether how to cleverly route a hot water supply around an obstacle or applying a paint technique to create a specific mood.
Many people associate creativity with artistic endeavors or with uniqueness. It never occurs to them that by simply making something one is being creative in some fashion.
I struggled in school. Sensory overload. I loved drawing and writing stories. I could manage and predict the worlds I created in my mind.
Thats very cool man.
Same with me
Im a creative person too.
I had some trouble in high school because i didnt see any relevance to 90 percent of what was being taught.
You are expected to cram useless knowledge into your head for years and i hated that.
Also it was so boring and there was no individual approach to students because we are all different and we cant all learn the same way and the same subjects,especially not if they are boring to us.
if you found 90% of stuff irrelevant you arent necessarily creative, you are just stupid
Math instruction is aimed at people who can memorize formulas and apply them by rote. The summer after I took Algebra I was helping my neighbor build some stairs for his deck. He said "I'm going to show you how to read a framing square." We cut out wood triangles to support the stair treads, and in the process, I finally realized how the Y = mx + b slope/intercept formula relates to the line on a graph. In three dimensions, with lumber, it made a whole lot more sense.
Cool story man.@@AcmeRacing
Boring indeed! Because it is geared to benefit girls, by mostly women teachers...they expect boys to act and learn like girls! If not they put em on drugs. That in itself is reason enough to reject public indoctrination/education.
Nailed it.
This is why me and my 3 closest friends in school were at the top of the class in drafting. We almost never paid attention. We were in the back of the class making up things while the other kids were doing "exactly" what they were told.
I also graduated at the bottom 7% of my high school class, and now make well over 100k per year consistently.
I hated school and school hated me.
I did horrible in school but fell in love with machining at the young age of 12. The problem i see now at 40 with the skills I have is that everyone thats “above” me has no clue how to do what I do and mob rule still keeps me suppressed.
My god, I have never heard myself summed up so perfectly. It brought tears to my eyes that for 80 years, I thought I was the odd one, the outlier, the one that just didn’t fit. How many times in elementary school I got sent home because I wasn’t listening. Then they gave me an IQ test and it was so high they didn’t tell my mother the results until I had graduated-barely.
The only way to graduate from University or College is to submit materials that are either in a format that the teacher believes in or totally left-wing liberal snowflake political correct language.
I am sorry you never met an adult who could have helped you the way Gillian Lynne got help.
Same here! I was always scoring at "Genius Level" but the school system tried to keep that info from me and my Parents for years!
And this was over 50 years ago!
Hilarious !! I got Escorted to the Principal's Office to face the SAT Detective. They had no Concept of what the heck I was, so the Logic ran that I had Somehow gotten Hold of all the Test Answers. They tried to Interrogate it out of me. I was just Happy it wasn't about the other , you Know,.. Thing. 😅
@@brianmclaughlin4419weed?
Absolutely everything he said! I found school boring so I ignored it. The teachers were so boring that I couldn't keep track of what they were say even if I tried. Homework? Nope! Classwork? Sort of! I did not care to solve the math problems in order to figure out the "secret" message. I got very used to passing time in school and no one knew how to motivate me. Shame wouldn't do it. My dad raging out at me didn't either. I had a few teachers that managed to engage my attention. A social studies teacher would bring a story every class and invite us to discuss it. A math teacher just said to me "You seem to manage yourself well so just keep doing what works". I actually learned in his class but was sabotaged later by a grand standing ego maniac math teacher. I could go on but there is a lot of pain and frustration back there.
It's shocking how much I relate to this. Algebra and geometry was simply too uninteresting to me. When my English teacher had the class acting out Julius Caesar instead of simply reading it, I became very invested in it. It was fun, appealing, and it made me WANT to do the homework. Before his class, my previous English teachers just had the class read the stories from the textbook. It was so drab and boring even when the story should be FANTASTIC. Academia smothers creativity to death. One teacher taught me that in one hour.
There are some 'Separate Reality' tricks for getting Math Answers without knowing any Math. I doubt I could Explain how it's Done.
@@brianmclaughlin4419 Yeah, I know some people manage to get a hold of the teachers companion textbook.
It really depends on the discipline. You can use your creativity to feign intelligence. I studied Physics in college, I'm not that intelligent but I'm extremely creative. Turns out my creativity gave me the ability to solve very difficult physics problems that my fellow classmates that undoubtably had a higher IQ than me were incapable of solving.
Intelligence comes in many forms though, and IQ tests only cover one side of it. If the tests somehow managed to incorporate inspiration & creativity into them, I'd be willing to bet you'd score higher than your classmates.
In fact, it's weird to me how much value we put in IQ, when in reality it's those with ideas who are usually the leaders in society, and the high IQs usually end up working for them. Put another way, in a few years I bet AI will be able to do 90% of the things that those with a high IQ are able to do. The areas they excel at such as quick calculations and recognizing patterns, AI already have them beat. I believe what AI will struggle with most are precisely the things you and other creative people are good at, such as exploring fresh new ideas that have never been dreamed of before.
That's amazing. I was never able to learn physics as it was just streamed to the bright students
I'd love to know about the design physics is it ?
That's not feigned intelligence, it's superior intelligence. A creative person is always intelligent, but an intelligent person is not necessarily creative. I was able to solve problems that even the test-givers didn't understand, despite having the answers, because I looked for solutions that others didn't.
Thats intelligence. Dont kid yourself
“It’s like you put an extrovert into an isolated jail.”
As an aspiring filmmaker studying software engineering, I’ve never felt more identified. At times I compare Engineering University to a jail because I can’t do my Stop Motion short films because of all the stupid stuff I have to do for university. I’m ridiculed for that, but I can’t do my creative stuff and that feels like a jail. It feels so liberating to actually sit down and create stories, and actually animate them.
Hopefully one day I’ll become that filmmaker I aspire to be.
You're a social engineer you know that
@@kamogeloswrt9494 I don't think you know what that means.
Just go into film, do anything you cam make a living at.
I feel exactly the same way. I've gone back to university at 35 year old to study sport rehab (basically MSK physio), something I've been interested in for years. But as interested as I am in health and fitness and biology I've got an equal amount of interest and desire to write and talk about films. I've come to realise these past few years that film is my true passion.
It's worse than jail, it's working in a coal mine, with no light.
Its amazing there's so many people speaking out about being creative. Ive had my own struggles as creative person and honestly it was hard and frustrating. I got diagnosed with depression in 2022 and currently im planning to practice self compassion for my depression, confidence, and trust in myself for me. Don't give up everyone and don't let people's words affect your mental state they don't understand what you're going through. You matter.
Stay *far away* from pharmaceuticals. They are the death nail for all creative people.
All true and especially relevant to those who are creative.
Thanks buddy, you too! 🎉 I struggle with depression too but im learning every day to be kind and forgive myself. When im hard on myself i think "how would i speak to my friend in the same position?" and adjust my self voice to match that
Black lives matter🎉 🌈🏳️🌈🌈🏳️🌈
Creative people often suffer from depression.
I always struggled in school from the very beginning. It wasn't until my adult years that I recognized that I wasn't stupid, but that my brain worked differently than the average person. That coupled with virtually non-existent parents and little discipline made for a crazy, painful childhood and school experience. My husband and I decided to home school our children and, along with them, I was permitted to have the school experience all over again. It was most marvelous and I enjoyed it immensely. My daughter-in-law recently told me that I was very creative, but I never saw myself that way. So, hey, maybe I really am!
Art is my very makeup. I sleep, dream, and breathe art. 24/7. No one fostered this in me a kid. It was just there. Always there. School stifled this so much. Now I have a grandson who doodles, draws, creates and gets in trouble for it. His mind is a constant idea. I am so sad to see it being diminished.
Every Piece of Schoolwork I ever did had cartoons adorning every white space. And I would Get that dopey "Test" Part in the middle done so fast I didn't even care if it was filled in "Right".
My mind was elsewhere.
I'm now 80 yrs old, totally happy with decisions I made in my life, but the best advice I got from my guidence councilor, back in the 60s was get out of school,
School is where you are rewarded for memorizing information that may or may not be true.
School is where you are indoctrinated to become compliant consumer/producers.
School is a safe environment for angry adults who are legally allowed to torment helpless children.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach...and resent the creative student with every cell inside them.
School is a place to train 'normies' how to be good cogs in the machine.
(By normie I mean: people who aren't mindful (act purely on habit/impulse) who let society decide their goals/values).
86% of people dislike being introspective. Most people hate being in their own head. This is who school is for.
Pink floyd?
Not entirely true. There are students who want to learn more about something in contrast to creative students who want to know something and do something outside of the convention.
It's also a place where Millions upon millions of kids receive some learning they would otherwise not get from their parent and or parents. What's your alternative?
@@dr.emilschaffhausen4683 The alternative is some other model of education. There are many. Home schooling. Self-education. Tutoring. Programmed instruction. The latter, particularly, has been made more plausible by the computer revolution. The other modes have always been plausible. Another possibility, depending on the person, is apprenticeship combined with instruction in secondary subjects. People usually think of apprenticeship as associated with skilled crafts and trades but it can associated with white collar work also. This form of apprenticeship does not preclude later attending college.
The idea of sending people to work at the age of 14 is anathema to American society. If the alternative is having kids, especially the males, running the streets with no adult supervision or contact, maybe it is better to have some certain segment of the kids go to work at 14. Very seriously, this issue is not exclusive to the minority community in America although it is not so visible within the white community.
You're not king of the mountain. There is no default position which must be accepted as valid absent the presentation of proof that some other position is valid. Kids do learn something in the present system. All of the alternatives I have described are proven too.
The same goes for creatively minded educators. They get crucified, branded as incompetent and worked out of the system. These same individuals are often adored by their students.
In my experience, some of the best educators are those who chose to become teachers later in life. They have a lot more life experience and knowledge to draw from while they are teaching compared to teachers who became teachers right out of school.
My problem is that I'm very creative while also having a proclivity to break rules.
I've had many jobs in my life and my chief enjoyment in all of them was finding and exploiting the loopholes in their various rule structures, meaning that I'm really good at appearing to do everything that's asked of me while hardly doing anything at all. Creative people need an outlet. Mine just happens to be of the devious sort.
I'm kind of a bastard really.
Do you recognize patterns of behavior too? That's my problem as well. I'm creative but can be systematic. It was almost impossible to punish me as a child because I would question everything if the punishment wasn't consistent I wouldn't accept it. The reason for punishment was to teach me that there were consequences to my actions as I became an adult, since most of the consequences tried on me weren't remotely enforceable if I was the adult they were trying to teach me to be, then the punishment was invalid to the goal. My grandfather was the only person who consistently found a way to be logical and oh man he had to think through everything. But he was a master carpenter, math and beauty were his trade.
Work for a living and be creative on your own time. Unless you can make money with your creations.
@@dr.emilschaffhausen4683Respectfully must Disagree. Play to your Strengths. I was admonished that I "Could Not make a Living doing THAT!! ", and had another (deadly Boring) Profession Shoved in my Face. But, I knew at 4 years old what my Path was. I got kicked out and Cut off. But paid my own Way thru 6 years of College in Horrid, Continual Poverty.
And Years of working my way up the Quality ladder. I got there. But only I cared. And, yes I would have to say I'd do it Again. Creative is not to be Denied. 😊
Jolly Good, Mister Bastard.
Wow, this video hit me on so many levels. So many analogies and tidbits that are exactly me. I'm a creative problem solver that would love to invent things (I have SOOO many ideas) but I don't have the network available to develop them or the finances available to pay people to help me create them.
But sooner or later my exact idea comes out and gets me zero credit or reward. I love FINDING problems so I keep having projects for solutions that are within my grasp. It's what keeps me going. I'm also an extrovert too!
You sound like me x
@@perprerp is this advice coming from someone who "produces?" Easier said than done. I agree that only having the idea is not going to award me money so I focus my creativity on things that actually ARE within my reach like sports and games.
@@perprerp I invent sports and other games. I also create my own sports equipment and upgrades for said sports. These aren't the ideas I am trying to do for money...they are hobbies and things I enjoy that thankfully draw a good crowd. I'm not going to spend money getting degrees in fields I don't have experience/skill in with the hopes that it's going to turn my ideas into profits. I'm 42. Going into more debt and losing how many more years of my life for the "chance" that one of my ideas takes off vs hoping to meet someone who IS skilled already who likes one of my ideas and has a desire to help me bring it to fruition will be a lot easier...and cheaper (in both money and time).
I am also an inventor. I also invented a flame that does not emit smoke. A lamp that can not be blown by air. Yeah, it sounds fictional but I really created it. And I am still able to create them. I have many inventions that never been seen on this modern world. Lols. Due to lack of financial support and inappropriate courses.
By the way, that lamp has no glass to protect it self from air. But you can't blow the flame unless you know how.
I had a part-time job teaching test prep for the GRE and the GMAT. Standardized tests are really good at measuring your ability to take standardized tests, but that's about all they really measure. Teaching my students about the grading criteria for the essay gave them a serious score boost, because graders were taught to look for a few specific things. Spelling and grammar were relatively minor concerns; they were more interested in arguments supported by 2-3 examples. Memorization of a few key Algebra and Geometry rules would save test takers loads of time too.
Back when I was in college, I often thought to myself that in college you are allowed to do almost anything you want except think. You are fine as long as you memorize what they tell you, question nothing, and give them back exactly the answers they want.
Just like a programme
When I took the police entrance exam the test was set up in such a way that there was usually a very clear morally and intellectually sound answer. But no, it was actually a disguised personality assessment test. They weren't looking for people who knew the right answer, they were looking for people who knew THEIR right answer. On my second test after realizing the trick, I made it to the interview stage. I wasn't picked, thank God for that. As I gave up on that foolish path.
Thank You, there's no words to describe how validated I felt watching this video. I was always just barely passing my grades and felt frustrated that I wasnt gonna amount to anything, thankfully, because of this feeling I started to start writing a book online as a last ditch effort and man, did it felt therapeutic to express my creativity for the first time in a productive way. Still writing and posting chapters to this day and I have no regrets. Thank you for this video, here's my like and subscribe
I think that a rational path for creative people who do’t want to starve in a hovel while creating their art is “micro-creativity” in a useful skill. This would entail building a skill set in some practical, in-demand field and then, once established, taking a creative approach to executing the craft and problem solving. Thus the creative will have an outlet for their creativity, to say nothing about the funds necessary to carry on with their “macro-creative” pursuits on their own terms (on their own time, on their own dime). The hazard with this approach is that so much mental energy is spent on the practical pursuit that there is little left for the purely creative pursuit. But this can be consciously managed.
You need to read Vladimir Nabokov's short Story about the penniless Composer. It was in a Collection called A Russian Beauty, which is itself a Great Short Story.
I sucked at school.
I knew I wasn't dumb because in the 9th grade they gave me a test to determine my skills, and I was tested at a sophomore college reading level.
The test had determined that I would be a good musician or actor.
I forget what the test was called, but it was accurate in its diagnosis of my creativity.
I am a singer/songwriter/beat maker, EmCee, poet and novelist.
I am 54 and now have an IQ of about 140. I am self taught, through reading and studying at Libraries.
For years, I checked out books, sometimes 6 at a time. And I would go home and study. I would get educational videos and break them down as well, writing out what I have learned and quizing myself.
I cant say I relearned science application and things like that, such as the mineral chart, etc... because I dont have an interest in those fields.
This is where the indoctrination centers of America are doing it wrong!
They treat all children the same academically.
Its kinda like giving ALL WOMEN THE SAME SIZE BRA!!!
People are very different from each other when it comes to interests, passions, desires and skillsets.
What one person lacks in dexterity, another might excel in, and make the perfect athlete. One person might grasp music theory or algebra while another person struggles to understand it.
The differences in us are phenomenal and yet, we are similar in so many other ways.
I feel in order to properly educate... A persons personality and character traits must be acknowledged and stimulated first.
Curriculum has been replaced with corporate agenda and indoctrination.
Political and corporate agendas have no place in the classroom!
Every person learns different and has different interests. Until this corporation we call a country recognizes that, we will continue to have an ineffective educational system.
😂The bra example is perfect
For real tho 😂
When I was a very young Lad in second grade.
I began to exhibit these creative traits.
Plus all the later excepted Short attention with high curiosity in Artistic thoughts.
But, they stuck me in the " special class ",
Rode the short bus, after testing me.
What I learn was, " to have DISDAIN for not only education, but teachers.
I was beaten and ridiculed for my expressive
thinking.
To this day, I hate school. I am A poet and rail against those in " go along get along types ".
I was in those special learning classes too. Anything that wasn’t art, drawing related, even writing stories, I failed at and struggled with. Was bullied myself for it too. Had to repeat prep in primary school. Also wore glasses because I couldn’t see the board.
Haha, yep. They gave me an IQ test and couldn't understand how I did well on it but made terrible grades.
How come the best creative people go through the worst shit 😒 ?
@@user-mv9nt6ed8k As I believe back in my
time Pryor these ideas in so many Avenues,
in how the educational system finally saw numbers which they had advocacy to change the the learning experience.
@@PaulKMF1 , I Q. Test ?!
My Mother told me I had A test done.
She said, I tested at 173. But I was held back in 1st grade ? Yeah, I'm no Math person.
But I am a history and word Man with A level of Imagination that you cannot Measure.
Which way back then, they only wanted to teach the black en White method in
Old Standards.
Thank you so so much for providing such an amazing video. I appreciate your efforts 😊.
There were a cluster of creatives growing up who were the ones who struggled in school and had overpowering anxiety, and then you had the cluster I was in where we could get the grades but we didn't pretend it meant much of anything--it always felt like robotic imitation rather than any understanding. Post-school life has it's pros and cons, but at least it leaves room for you to approach things your own way, which lets you actually get a grasp of the information you have to work with. During school I just turned off and coasted with indifference until those hours are up (and I learned best outside of school), but post-school I look back at it as something awful.
I have been told by many that I am a phenomenally accomplished person. My forthcoming book catalogues all of it. I left school in my senior year of college because my academic advisor (PhD) told me to “Have a more realistic goal” after I explained my career goals.
I'm a doctor of business administration, and for many years, I've said, "If somebody tells you you have a great idea, it may be good, but it won't be great. The great ideas are the ones everybody says are crazy until somebody makes them work." In 1854, when Colonel Edwin Drake said he was going to drill for oil, everybody laughed at him. Until Drake actually succeeded at it in 1856, nobody had every gotten oil from the ground; they got scooped it up when it bubbled to the surface in a swamp. Likewise, Walt Disney's business advisors urged him not to create a full-length animated movie. They said that nobody would watch a cartoon that long. I could give you many other examples.
Very true
Like the Wright brothers and flight.
@@priscaezema721 Right. The Wright Brothers were high school dropouts.
I know exactly what you mean. I was always the divergent type. Not like all the rest. Making me a loner in school. Interacting with all groups but never belonging to one. The out of the box thinking and also creative solutions is what has made me a great consultant and standing out from the crowd. As I am like nobody else.
Also in job interviews people don’t want yes-sayers, but critical thinkers.
If people want the critical thinkers, why aren’t we teaching more of that in schools?
In Job interviews, they Prefer Sheep. Baa !! 🐑🐑🐑🐑 🐑. Lots of Sheep.
Always drew in school. In and out of art classes. I’d always draw in my books. Other subjects other than art I struggled in. Always been good at art, puzzles etc.
Always had learning difficulties, needed extra help, had those extra learning, “special needs” ish sessions with other people who struggled with learning too.
Got picked up from school early in the day for a couple hours to a learning clinic to help my brain keep up.
All fine now at 23.
Your life will be much more interesting than most. Keep expressing yourself the way you like. It doesn't have to bring in money, but it will bring meaning.
I totally agree with you, it’s very hard for a creator to leave an idea just because people don’t understand it, because at the moment he/she share the idea, a massive amount of thinking has been spend on it; and I think that’s why sometimes they become unhappy because others don’t perceive things as the creator who think it’s simple.
I think we better work in a term, where some will be responsible to translate the idea in a more social and community terms.
Because most creators, don’t do well explaining their work in a simple terms.
Any way; good talk
I'm a creative person. I loved to draw and paint. I absolutely hated school. I was so glad when I finally graduated. Because I thought I'd never go back. But my maternal grandmother who raised me, enrolled me in a local community College that I really didn't want to go to, using some money set aside for my education, by my biological father. I find this to be very true. I completely agree with Jordan Peterson on this. I knew exactly what I wanted to do with my life, but never had any opportunity. Thank you.
I’m so grateful hearing this whole thing 🙏 hallelujah
This is SO LOVELY to hear! Once again, I hear Jordan Peterson speak and can breathe that much more easily, because ... THAT is what happens when someone speaks the Truth. You relax.
This so reminds me of when I was in college. I was in the advertising program and I had a very different way of creating, my professor actually said that’s not the way it’s done (and of course he gave me a lower grade). Then years later the same style I had created in college began being used in ad agencies.
I got Flunked in an Art History Class because as Soon as that Teacher Started gushing about Picasso, I chose to Knock the Old Fraud off his Undeserved Pedestal and reveal where his Every Idea actually Came From. In great detail.
She did not Like That. Much.
I went to a private college to become an illustrator. In my third year I entered seven pieces in the student exhibit. All seven won first place. At the end of my fourth year my professors told me ‘we don’t know what to do with you.’
I'm creative but I was also very academic and did well at school. I did a test a few years ago and it turns out my brain operates at 50/50. So I'm equally creative as much as I am logical.
I think my brain is about the same . What kind of test was it?
Same here, i am a creative individual and never struggled in school/college 😅 in fact, my graphic/creative mind been a blessing while analyzing and solving problems/situations, i guess some of us have the best of both worlds 😊
Absolutely brilliant and true! Thank God for Dr Peterson 👏🏻👏🏻
I remember in high school I took a poetry course, and with each topic written, I found that my thoughts and experiences differed from my fellow students. I was pleasantly surprised to find my classmates and teacher so encouraging and accepting of my poetry and prose. I was told that it was cutting-edge and ahead of its time, but not to worry, in 10 years it will be the norm of expressions.
I love this. It drains creativity until I am a not creative of thought now as it has been drummed out of me by concrete thinkers.
Touche 😅
"The correlation between creativity and grades is zero."
I think people are overlooking this?😅 It means how creative you are doesn't affect your grades at all
Actually at the graduate levels, there's a NEGATIVE correlation between intelligence and creativity, since schools are all about verbatim rote-memorization.
@@SovereignStatesman You meant to say, a negative correlation between _academic performance_ and creativity.
Well the best grade in art class still saved my graduation 🤷🏼♂️👀
Wow!!
Renovation window and door installer here.
You have to think on your feet to be good in my industry and that’s some good for thought!
Jordan is a generational mind!!
This really resonated with me. I've spent my entire life struggling to fit in or find a way to contribute creatively as an independent.
I'm both conscientious and creative. It's a rare dual ability. Like, I follow rules. To give you an example, I was in a Creative Writing course--it's amazing that the perfect opportunity to share this story arises the day after I think about it--and my one poem was written on a system of criteria. He was telling us a thing to write, for each one, and I had written it into a narrative structure. And mind you, the criteria was graded on following the pattern he gave. So, each of the ten points, would be docked if you didn't follow one of them.
So... He gave it, and I had written it into a narrative structure, and then he said "Write a line that doesn't make sense." And, I chose not to follow that. He looked at it, docked my paper one point. And then came up to me the next day, and said, "You didn't follow this one rule, so I knocked off one point." I was perfectly okay with that, because the exercise was to teach you discipline. Which, is something a Grand Master artist gains. And that I was okay with--I still got an A for the project, and an A for the course--but that was an interesting point. I still follow that measure today, when I build outlines, or do creative things, I follow a structure of rules and create within those rules. I'll break them occasionally, when the artistic merit needs it too...
But, I've spent 20 years learning grammar, syntax, punctuation, I can diagram a sentence, can correctly describe about 100 different philosophies, have knowledge on all the most significant religions, and some dead ones. I am well studied on Ancient History, and British and American History--up the point of the War of 1812, which is where I think I ended my one long poem, which is going to be expanded when I have the creative juice to do it.
Like, you have to be disciplined as an artist, and I'd think the truly gifted artists, like Michelangelo or Leonardo, weren't just creative, but also conscientious. Or someone like Tolstoy or such. Goethe is another fine example of a conscientious artist. Or Dali was very conscientious, though highly neurotic.
I think it depends on the subject. Openness to Experience is the psychological determinant of creativity. It is also the determinant of curiosity. I am high on OTE so I am curious about the past, about languages, about philosophies. If I studied literature or languages or history or philosophy, I believe I would do well because I am curious about these things. But if you're OTE and you're studying law or business or something like that its going to be hard because there is no real room for curiosity or creativity, there are only rigid rules. That's why he uses law and business admin as examples.
@@priscaezema721 Yeah, that's true. You don't want creative accountants or lawyers. But, most creative people in Law become Judges. It's kind of what distinguishes a Judge from a Lawyer. As there's a sense a Judge has, that a Lawyer does not. Which is invariably, when to bend the law to get to the right judgment.
@@BKNeifert Very true,
In the cases we study, we see a lot of judges with creative approaches to making decisions and analysing the law. In Nigeria where I'm from for instance, apart from having some of our own great judges, we are also influenced by British cases and the precedents of their judges especially the greats and these are the people, that in a way, make the laws which are then followed by lawyers.
I am quite sure that I have heard in either Jordan’s talks or other well established psychologist that creativity along with humour show high levels of intelligence. I feel most people tend to assume that academic souls are the be all, end all, to all of our perceived accomplishments. The world has to have various personality types to maintain and achieve all that we need to live and have as resources. Academic and cerebral people help make the world go around economically , creative people especially involved in the performing arts or sensitive roles help nourish our souls. Everyone has something to offer… but not all will be appreciated or valued. That is my bumper sticker thought for today.😮
A great example of this happened to me not long ago. I was in Year 12 Orientation and getting ready for the Media subject. The teacher provided us with some simple techniques for Idea Generation as we were starting our media projects (which could be short films, photo series, music videos, etc) like brainstorming, SCAMPER, forced relationships, rapid ideation and zero drafts. Which was great, what went wrong was that we were then eventually told that we HAD to use these methods and we were going to get graded by how well we work with these methods. Just conscientiousness and working with the only things they're familiar with.
Thank you so much man! As an artist, back in grade school my teachers doesn’t accept creativity and art at all, all we did was full of academics and pressure, my whole life I was broken by teachers saying I won’t have a future if i’m not smart enough, I remember being humiliated by my one teacher that hated me alot for being creative and easily distracted, or annoying all the time, she was so irritated of me that she often enjoys me getting embarrassed on public, she would often throw away or crample my drawings, other teachers as well, I also never knew that I actually had adhd on my whole childhood which caused me to burst out on conversations all the time or have a wide range of imagination, I was diagnosed with that condition late at my teenage years, I have grown to have depression and anxiety, but fortunately I’m doing great so far, although i’m still learning to accept my true self that i am enough.
Also update i’m finally going to an art school I hope and pray I’ll do well tho.
I am probably in the creative category and I was historically a poor student. I loved writing stories and drawing pictures when I was a kid and then as a a teen I developed a love of making music and I still do. I did poorly throughout school until high school and college (maybe making music made me more conscientious). I think the reason I did well in my undergraduate degree is mostly because I found shortcuts to teach myself material (e.g. I would force myself to sit in the front row of class and I recorded lectures and listened to them on my drive home or when going to sleep). I would have liked to go onto graduate school but it was a gamble financially and I was tired of being a broke student. I work in a job that is the antithesis of creative but it's a means to survive. I still write and record music in the evenings. Although I am limited on time, creative projects keep me up and supposed to go to sleep early. So that is slipping but I hope I carve out time to continue. My son is very creative but he is also a great student, perhaps he just has a high IQ like his Mom.
I am, or was a very creative person. I could learn creative/artistic abilities instantly after 1 try and usually mastered it. School was torture for me. I was always singled out, constantly ridiculed and bullied because I was different. Thus, my journey into true failure began. I was never seen as valuable in the workplace nor were my ideas listened to or the good ideas were stolen by psychopaths who'd backstab anyone to get ahead. Now I've no inspiration or creative spark any more. I'm kicked away in my room watching what remains of my pathetic existence pass me by. I guess all that's left is to just whither away and die. All hope is lost. 😢
It makes sense. Although the creativity vs academic correlation may be on a continuum or spectrum, like introverted vs extraverted. Very few people are all the way on either end of the line. Years ago, I worked with many people who were strongly creative, and I have a hard time imagining them doing anything else except art, music, or drama. But many of my friends were a mixture. They moved more to the middle of the line, maintaining a degree of creativity, while having the skills to make the process work. But even then, I have a friend who is extraordinarily gifted with a paint brush, but can also repair and restore antique sewing machines. And those are only two things in a long line of accomplishments most people can only dream of. But what Dr. Peterson says here makes so much sense as to why some students don't thrive in an academic setting.
I was thinking this for some years, of course on a simplistic way, but its awesome that someone confirms it in detail.
It’s cuz it’s hard to learn math when you’re doodling all day… but you get really good at doodling.
My Career, in Short. Always took really good care of my hands, they were my Wealth.
Otherwise, I can only Flip Hamburgers.
I struggled in school to concentrate and wasn’t academic. I would daydream and preferred just walking the streets than going to school. I was a bad student. Outside of school I got top marks in music, piano, ballet. Almost went to a Ballet school where I had a place but had a foot problem, it wasn’t meant to be. Yes some children will just struggle in school and he labelled wrongly as unintelligent or lazy. I just hated the place.
He hit the nail on the head! I’ve got all these ideas, but I don’t have the skills/creative team/money/connections/audience to make them work for me. All I can do is build on my own with what little I have access to; and while I do receive compliments on my craft, it is nowhere near the amount of attention I’d need to have a following that would make my talent sustainable.
Being creative sucks because it’s, like he says, “High risk, high reward”
Doesn't "Suck,". It's malleable to your Intent. Maybe Honing your Pattern of "Grinding it Out" needs some Laser beam work. Get Serious !! No one said it was a given, magical gift. You must go do the Thousand Steps, all of them steeply uphill. Ask me how many job interviews I've done. 500 maybe ? And I'm way up at the Top levels. Average People can NOT See the Value you Offer them. Most idiots in HR are truly thick. Their Bosses are often Thicker.
It keeps you Humble.
I truly love the way you presented this topic/video.
The graphics/visual "drawing" approach....
Talking is good, but talking with "pictures" (well done pictures/graphics) is better!!
Some people are more visual learners or people who learn by doing and some people are more book smart which frankly imo only measures your short term memory which is what tests are. Some people have better long term memory than short term memory yada yada. Traditional school system does not work for everyone and i can debate this for years.
A gift and a curse ☹️
Wow! This is so much needed in my career. Thank you !!!!!!
i need a video on the pros of creativity and how creative people succeed in different fields
I need advice badly. I'm at university and failing every class. My dream best case scenario would be creating tv shows, specifically Disney-channel-esque cartoons, with my brothers who are just graduating high school - we've been working on projects such as that for the last 2 years (1 main project mainly)
I'm going burning money and wasting time taking required classes I don't care about and subsequently fail.
I'm also possibly not succeeding because I don't want to move ahead - I'm scared to grow up and apart from my brothers.
I will for sure disappoint and embarrass myself and my family if I stop going to university and pursue the incredibly cheaper masterclass and basically free online self-education that I believe holds more value than any expensive, mindtwisting, time-wasting university that doesn't teach you how to thing or problem solve (I'm only applying these conclusions to the art-related fields, I think university is great for other fields, like doctors and things) I really would like to quit, work part time to keep my living, and self-make my skill in the animation, writing, etc crafts.
I also have been very without social life here at university however, and I know that is a bad thing - on one hand I'm scared to succeed or attempt anything without my brothers. On the other hand, I desperately wish I enabled myself to gain friends who are working on big dreams - but that can not happen since I'm keeping myself stagnant.
if anyone has any advice I really would appreciate it. I'm so stuck in a web of little white lies and half truths and conversation avoidance it just leaves my head whirling
Need someone to talk to❤
agreed, therapist and support structure can help a lot. Especially they can help dig up more core problems that prevent you from moving forward. Or maybe even that you don't want to move in that direction even though you convinced yourself that it was a good for you. Good luck, I hope you find relief quickly, but has long you don't give up things you get better. (i can't make a dignostic, but:do you love yourself?) @@MusikAfrica.01
Start part-time “little acts of rebellion” - dedicate some, even minor, time to it on evenings or weekends.
Get an online course to start on it, see how it goes, how does it feel. See if you can join a club or community or offline course dedicated to what you want to do - it might be hard to self-discipline alone and at home, especially under pressure of living out of alignment, but when you’re a part if community with regular in-person meetings - staying on track & working on developing your skills etc is way easier.
See if you can dedicate more time to it during holidays / summer break. Maybe you can find a volunteer program or related summer job. ❤
No advice but prayers for you 🙏
Ask your art professors for advice- I’m assuming you are doing a creative major. Tell them the same thing.
Ask the guidance counselor or school therapy clinic as well. If you are halfway see if there is a way to graduate early, ask whatever office that is too. You are correct you did not need the degree and it is a lot of money esp if you are going into debt for it. It can help in the professional corporate world but if you are not in a high paid field like UX design it’s practically for no point. You’d just be using all your creativity to make someone else’s vision come to life.
See if there’s an associates degree you’re eligible for now.
Hajime Isayama is one of the most creative writers of 21st century. He was shunned by publishers because he had a ridiculous story with poor drawing skills to back it up. But he got lucky with one publisher and the rest is history. I think the same thing happened to Einstein.
High risk high return yessss and totally worth the risk. I've done crazy, amazing things no one else would have thought possible.
Definitely described me, both the positive and negative of a creative person.
School sucks!!!!!
This reminds me of the quote by Gore Vidal “The unfed mind devours itself’.
Thank you Mr. Peterson!
0:40 so basically in order to assess people in certain categories, rather than looking purely at results you generally have to evaluate what is common. So you dont get creativity, you get the people who are best at doing what is expected, not necessarily the people who are THE best.
More great words from J.P. 💖
JP's insights like that are SO smart!
💯% I struggled in school for always oversteping boundaries. Its not that i try to, its just hard to distinguish these boundaries. I went through years of watching classmates understand the "undefined" boundaries when i always felt like i needed nore clarity. I went through all of college thinking there was something wrong with me.
Now i for a marketing company that recognizes creativity. I get a ton of praise for innovation, but in my mind i feel like im just doing the normal job. Over 2 years of working for my company, i have innovated several projects that now have become standarded deliverables that my company performs with clients.
I finally fit in somewhere. Im recognized for my ability to innovate by my company and coworkers. Im happy now, it feels good to know Im not actually stupid, i just think differently.
Please Tell Safeway/Albertsons Never to Run Another Monopoly Game Promo. Please.
as someone who lost its creativity due to miscomunication with others, lack of people interested around and full of college assigments (even on weekends) it feels exacly like an extroverted trapped in solitary confinement. wish me luck to recover it during vacations or next semester
Very creative video, thank you for your inspiration towards creativity.
Thank you Jordan, yet again!
this is why they tell creative people to never quit. maybe the right time will eventually be, as long as you continue to create and at a higher and higher level. I still have hope!
It was back in an 8th grade math class we were given a single math problem to solve for homework over the weekend... The initial problem to solve was easy, since I took one look at it and already knew the answer, and resisted simply blurting out the answer as class ended... And since I was an over achiever, and had already read our whole textbook, I figured I would do something special. Over the weekend, I constructed a page full Rube Goldberg of mathematics that used everything in the class textbook to derive the answer. In my mind, I was trying to demonstrate to the teacher that I had mastered all the material.... And I will never forget my shock when I got the paper back with the score "C -" and written in red the simplest way to derive the solution... When I confronted the teacher and tried to make an argument for myself, she replied saying something to the effect that "You aren't here do that, you are here to do it the way we tell you to."
Without even realizing it, from that moment on... A version of me was created and put forward to the world that had nothing but contempt for its existence but was necessary for survival... with the real version of me being hidden away. I will acknowledge, it was my fault for trying to win a game that was rigged from the start.
When I was in "Oberstufe" (kinda what some might know as high school) in Austria there wasn't a school that really captured what I needed. I liked to write, draw, had interest in video editing and filmmaking. But there wasn't really the right school for me, so I was forced to adapt. And like you said, creative people who can't be creative more or less die within. It was so much to do, so much to study, half of it didn't even interest me. It was more than a fulltime job, it was supposed to be my life and that just didn't work. It led to demotivation and low focus and because of that to bad grades, even in subjects I previously liked ór thought they were interesting but it was just so much and I always felt this creative energy imprisioned, wanting to break out. And when I went to the school psychologist in hopes she might know a way to balance both she just said the same useless thing as everyone else: "Focus on school"
Well, that's the reason I came to her, I can't!😂
But, at the end, focusing less on school and a little more on myself, although it led to bad grades (but I had good grades in my Matura exams👍), ultimatley led me to where I'm now, studying filmmaking in Vienna. And finally I feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be!
It's hard to be creative. For most of your time at school, your goals won't align with the state's goals, you might even feel like an outcast at times, get very little to no help from teachers to improve your skills, some people may even call you dumb because they think bad grades are a sign of low intelligence (wich is still a common missconception I'm afraid) and others won't just simply not believe in you.
Just never let others take you down, if others say "You can't" then you say "Let's see about that!"
Your comment speaks so much to me, I’m currently in Oberstufe and this is exactly how I feel. I still somehow manage to get good grades but I feel my interest and concentration vanishing with every week. I’m just sketching or working on my story during classes because I can’t get myself to care for what we’re supposed to learn. Most of it doesn’t make sense to me. I have so many ideas I want to work on but I have a tight school schedule that doesn’t allow me a lot of free time. But when I’m not creative I quite literally go into a state of sadness where I don’t have energy. I have to be creative because otherwise I feel like I’m betraying myself and not fulfilling my purpose. Extroverts gain energy from being around other people, I gain energy from doing art or writing stories.
I hate my situation right now and I think it’s only a matter of time until that shows in my grades.
Brilliant analysis
it took me to be 42 years old to not only find out i’m originally left-handed (i was forced to be a righty, but didn’t know until a few days earlier) and since there is a high correlation between that and being creative, it finally makes sense now. I’ve ALWAYS been the crewtive type in technologies but always downplayed it as a mere hobby. Indabbled in music where i performed very well… but downplayed it as a mere hobby. In school i struggled immensely until later in my academic years when i was given chances to come up with my own concepts.
My world is technically now turned upside-down and i’m re-tracing everyting
High risk high reward. Ill live this way, thanks. You can keep your rules.
A masterclass in 4 minutes. Amazing 👏👏👏🍻
So true. Every day of my life I’m creative in some way. I cannot relate at all to do non creative people. They cannot relate to me. Thank you mr Peterson.
Very true
Fascinating stuff
Yeah, I've done projects that were outside of the typical way projects or lectures should be done in college and I never could grasp how a college presentation should be done. It took me awhile to get how to write academically because I was so used to creative writing.
I have such a high visual learning ability it was interfering with my math and other classes. It became so bad during class that my brain would run wild with stories and distract me from the lesson. Today, thanks to the decisions of the teachers and the shrinks at the time, my math skills are still remedial. I struggle to force my brain to remember important numbers and have to fall back on repeating them over and over before I use them. But. Boy can I DM and write my own RPGs stories and am learning art and painting. Idk if I am a failure or just a lost cause but there was never an attempt to help me. Only bash my way of thinking and hammer me back into line with the other students. Thankfully I learned the whole 'don;t quit your 9-5' bit Jordan was talking about. At least I can make money as a cog but as a creative I have NO clue what to do with myself.
Wowwwwww this makes sooo much sense to me finally I can make sense of this
I failed miserably all throughout K-12. It was not from a lack of effort. I ended up joining the military and when I left the military I returned to my local community college. Part of the orientation required I take a learning test. The showed I was a purely auditory learner and the learning center showed me how to orient myself in class for success. Had I known this in my early education I would have not had to suffer failure after failure.
I use to build things all the time cuz I loved it. I'd come up with so wild ideas and build them and most of the time they worked and if they didn't work at first I'd keep tweeking it until it does work. Now I haven't built anything in years and Ive kinda went into a depression cuz my wife asks me why to any of my ideas. It makes sense now that creative people are happy when there making some and unhappy when there not.
As someone who’s really good at school (I haven’t really struggled with school) but also has adhd and is super creative I’ve learned to keep it inside of my head I’m and then when I get the chance like when I made my movie I go all in on my creativity and go insane
I find reward in finding multiple solutions to one problem
I'm creative and prefer to improvise things with a dense base of skills to improvise from. I cannot memorize anything unless i repeat the doing of it 100's of times...
I'm glad i found a career in mountain bike trail building because each environment is different, there are a different set of problems for each job, and most times get to express creativity with my work with the shape of banked turns and jumps. Alot of the job involves putting a chaotic environment into order in an efficient manner which i enjoy the problem solving aspect of
I'm a creative person and have owned my own drafting-design business for 30 years. While my skill is needed, I have never been able to sell my ideas; instead they are stolen from me. What you say makes sense. I have withered when I had to do a menial representative job. To me it's like mowing grass which I can do in my sleep. While mowing grass, I'm dreaming about how to make something work better. I have had many ideas, but have failed to create, or sell them.
Appreciate the video
This is so me. I was a C student with as many D's as B's. I had A's in Art and Ceramics. During Spanish class I was busy designing aircraft. I got good grades in typing class which I took because I love writing fiction. I did get a B in Algebra once. Woohoo! I just couldn't get my butt to study for tests the night before like others could.
Spot on
@Jordan Peterson, You the greatest