The big problem with Prismatic Titan.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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prismatic titan's grenade is pretty strong. i think that's pretty much the only thing people think is actually fun about prismatic titan. really, the main problem comes down to feeling like there's only 1 or 2 total viable setups for prismatic titan and they're both heavily melee driven, with 2 of the 5 aspects, arguably 3, feeling useless in day to day play.
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"nothing to do with shaving on that one... just really trying to find a segway" LOL. nice.
That ad intro had me coughing from how hard I laughed
Do a titan only gm.
Give Titans the Strand Mini Gun super
you should do a video with just ads, it'll be a blast
So many of titans’ aspects in general are based off of melee so whenever melee is discouraged through nerfs or game design, it pretty much hurts Titan viability way more than hunters or warlocks
And the aspects hardly play into the keywords of the subclass. Majority of them are get more melee damage or gain hp regen and if they do it’s not good enough.
Been saying this for over a year. It's not that Titan mains complain about melee being nerfed per se. The issue is, Bungie has pigeonholed Titans into having melee for their main identity and then they penalize you for using a melee! It's annoying! Titans feel the same way about using melee abilities all the time as warlocks feel about being stuck on well. Hope that clears it up for anyone that doesn't run Titan lol
Not Hunters. It doesn’t matter to them lmao.
If only Bungie would stop making utterly stupid AOE blast bosses that punish your existence.
Of all of the classes Titans seems to be the one Bungie struggles with the most. Their kit has just been shoe horned so much into punch all of the things that it's lost any flavor. Banner of war and twilight arsenal were great additions. I think going with more ally buffs would be great additions to the titans tool kit. As it stands, I have largely stopped playing my Titan as it just feels bland.
TDT posted a video on this topic today as well that goes into some much deeper problems that the Titam class has as a whole, well beyond just Prismatic and affecting every Titan subclass. In a nutshell, both Hunters and Warlocks can do certain things that Titan's simply can't, and nearly everything that a Titan can do, a Hunter or Warlock can do more efficiently and effectively. The video is a great watch in combination with this one.
I think the biggest problem with prismatic titan (at least in the middle game boss dps is mostly due to lacking useful supers) is what i like to call "the loop" warlock have the devour "loop", hunters have the stylish executioner "loop," titans have... knockout? Really? That's it? There's no loop there. It doesn't feed back into itself. You use your melee, and then it goes back on cooldown again, and you have to wait. Meanwhile, the warlocks are spamming bleakwatcher turrets with devour active, and the hunters are punching everything that moves while invisible. There IS senergy there, but the name of the game is uptime, and titans just dont have it.
The loop is there people just don't play it. It seems that most folks forget that every punch is empowered when you have knockout going. But randomly spamming the punch button on every enemy is asking to get yourself killed lol
The titan loop is more diamond lances from what I see. Everything feeds into it and diamond lances are strong just not, strong and generally stasis does better AND stasis has better support thru stasis shards
Exactly, the only thing titans have is melee and there are hardly any busted builds you can run to have up the charge most of the time.
@CleopatraKing diamond lance needs to spawn off of subclass verb kills/kills on subclass verb affected targets. Stylish executioner does that, and has an 11x more potent buff.
You can use skullfort but if you miss or someone takes that one kill you are basically dead in the water
This feels like it’s the culmination of Bungie design philosophy for Titan biting them in the butt. Titans have relegated to just being the melee/tanky class even when Stasis and Strand were introduced Titan still retained a melee centric style while Hunters and Warlock got something unique while retaining to their respective designs.
Now you have the ultimate subclass with slightly limitless possibilities and Titan still remains as the punch class
the thing is now Titan being tanky anymore really doesn''t matter. You can get slammed twice by a cyclops with 100 resilience and you dead! The nerfs to guardians and the buffs in difficulty for every activity melts everyone.
@@rufiorufioo very true and that just makes things worse for Titans since what do they really have going on right now nothing to being overshadowed by the other two classes
The new void super for titans is a MAAAAAAAASIVE welcome though. Finally a long range nuke super. With 3 bonus roaming mini supers
Bungie: “Titans are the melee class!”
Titans: *Uses potent melee builds*
Bungie: “Not like that! ):
Bungie: "Titans are the melee class"
Also Bungie: Gives Hunters the ability to increase their melee damage through their melee ability, but makes Titans use an Aspect to do it.
They news to give us back one two punch peregrine greaves shoulder charge that was a fun time
@@CrayonConsumerLXIX That would just be a bandaid. Titan needs a deep look into it's main fantasy, if not a whole head to toe re-work. Not just giving back 1 hyper-op combo because it was fun.
At least having Roaring Flames, Offensive Bulwark or Knockout empowered melees count as power melees is cool.
Oh wait, that got nerfed as well...
@@constantine7249that was one of the worst nerfs bungie ever made and was so dumb, especially because when roaring flames shipped with solar 3.0 it originally did not make your normal melees into powered melees and bungie said that was a literal bug and fixed it, allowing for the interaction to work
I love how historically the class that has had the most OP skill and broken supers has been Hunters and even Warlocks back in D1 with the self-rez, but Bungie was like "We need to make sure Titans aren't broken. We don't want them running amuck. After all they are the least popular class. Can't have them thinking they're special."
I’m loving the ad jumpscares. Nice quiet video discussing Titan’s gameplay loop then YOU KNOW WHAT’S HARD TO REPLACE? YOUR BALLS
It not that deep
@@omensoffate Unlike me in your mom
@@omensoffate calling this comment deep is like being mad at a puddle you stepped in as if it soaked your pants
be careful for the torsion y'all
Thanks for the heads up
The sentiment is much older than Salvations Edge. Where did we unironically use Titan in Pantheon, except Atraks? Bubble has been useless for years. Cuirass was the only saving grace and has been powercrept - if you can actually hit the boss because why would Bungie want to fix that..
I feel like Into the Fray would be a great addition over Drengrs. It would fit the whole melee theme with the bonus regen on woven mail, giving you and your team huge buffs with woven mail, and give tangles ANY reason to exist on prismatic outside of a way to proc threaded blast for this episode exclusively Edit: plus it doesnt really have any "strand identity". It's a strong aspect, but it doesn't make a build on its own for strand, similar to how they picked the other aspects.
True, out of all the strand aspects they could have used, they chose the most useless one. Abeyant Leap on the exotic class item doesn't give woven mail on suspend despite the icon literally being a chestplate. Sure you could use regular Abeyant Leap but then why not just use it on strand where it would be way more useful
Banner of war/into the fray with consecration will be great
When I saw it was damn drengrs on the prismatic that was the moment I decided to switch to warlock for the moment. Drengrs is just laughably unfun to me, I knew not to expect banner but drengrs totally killed it for me. Yay i get to press a button and suspend a guy for 2 seconds before waiting 30 to do it again. Doesn't even synergize with the thruster dodge in any useful way
@@Calebe428that’s what i love about bungie. with titans it’s either nerf too hard or buff too much. i have no idea how there isn’t a middle ground but good god.
@IzanamisBurden honestly the only reason i use abeyant on prismatic is for the prismatic grenade. The only good thing about titan
I think it's kinda funny that when a titan is meta, its mostly uninended. Banner of war with grapple punch, storm nades, launch Lorely, and abeyant leap (more of suspend in general, but titan has the best access to it).
and then bungie "fixes" it and it becomes trash lol, or atleast just decent meanwhile hunters are nuking bosses for free
@Calebe428 you'd think they'd have learned their lesson with strand titan. No clue why they thought stylish should be able to get max multiplier on grapple
It's because the only way titans are meta in PvE is with melee 1-2 punch shenanigans, and not because they have utility or uptime. The exception was touch of thunder inmost light, but aside from that, it's always big punch dps, which doesnt work in a lot of places BY DESIGN
@@deklinmorrissey8123 to be fair getting stylish on grapple isnt exactly consistent. using grapple takes you out of invis, so youd need to invis as you start the grapple. the only way that build works in the damage share from tether but thatll quickly kill your syntho uptime
@CatWithThumb yep, you're right. It might be exploited like strand titan though. Not likely to be used by anyone not going to the utmost optimal
I think it's worth noting that all 5 aspects require being in the fray, but there's no into the fray defense. Even diamond lance requires you to go pick it up.
I feel like diamond lance should just spawn, take a second to lock on a target and be sent on a ballistic trajectory to a target as a form of ice flare bolts for titan but different
@@ethan3625I agree it’s too much time n effort to go n pick up the diamond lance and find an ad that’ll it’ll be worth using one cuz half the time it probably ain’t worth risking to pick up the lance so it should just spawn and find an enemy to track n attack on its own. The whole loops on having to pick up the diamond lance just to freeze an enemy isn’t satisfying at all, it feels like a chore.
Prismatic is supposed to have unique interactions between underused/weak aspects and exotics that lead to synergies in builds that otherwise wouldn't be possible (ex: getaway artist + helion + bleak watcher). Prismatic Titan doesn't have any synergy between the chosen options. Any synergies they would have gotten were preemptively reworked/nerfed (ex: thruster + drengr's) or are just worse than playing the regular subclasses.
Not to mention the clear balancing bias when it comes to the chosen aspects for each class. Each prismatic class has an aspect with 2 fragment slots which can be assumed to be the strongest aspect out of the options. I don't know how a dev thought devour was on the same level of a nerfed knockout.
Yeah feed the void giving devour on ability kills that gives a full heal, grenade energy, and has a timer that can be refreshed giving the same benefits on every kill really shows how bad knockout is.
On top of that I get that prismatic is about buff stacking and using elemental pickups to gain ability energy. But it needs something that gives ability energy since subclass verbs just aren't enough on their own with strand tangles being the biggest offender being kinda useless outside of strand subclasses.
Hunter still has the same kinda problem outside of combination blow there isn't much to build into but stylish executioner is still a great aspect with great synergy with the prismatic subclass.
Knockout wasn't nerfed though? I won't argue that it's as powerful as Devour by any means, but it was absolutely buffed.
@@cryw1092Melee buff doubled, cool not really noticeable unless you’re using consecration or thunderclap. Reworking health regen for a chunk sounds nice until you realize a melee kill on a champ only gives about half a bar of health in itself which in endgame ain’t gonna help much.
The very least they could do is add Melee energy on melee kills and/or debuffed targets.
@@Dumlandthere is more stuff you can build into. I don’t understand this concept of everyone obsessing over melee builds. At what point does become just plane meta following and lack of creation. Not denying titans lacking, but Jesus man it’s like entire D2 community is fixated on melee builds right now
my thought exactly. when i saw titans aspect i was like alright, titan team thought; lets bring in stuff that is underused from other sub clases so it gets a bit more love. while warlock team had a clear vision that they wanted prismatic warlock to be the "helping buddy generator" even the speaker exotic is healing turret one. ON THE OTHER HAND hunter team went: lets bring all the best stuff from all the other sub classes that we have over here. bring the stasis slow. bring tethers. bring invisibility. bring COMBINATION BLOW. solar? bring golden gun of course. and lets put another golden gun on a GUN
Encounters don't want us to be in melee. Name a boss that won't rip your health bar in half and knock ya back 20 feet that is also NOT flying or floating outside the map. If they want Titan to be a Punch Merchant, they need rewarded in all encounters for it. Any other class who could build melee has four other options. Titans don't have other options. We punch. I've been grumbling that when we hit damage phase on half these bosses, it isn't WORTH it for me to super. Either it gets me killed to the architects or I spend a third of the meter chasing the fucker down and I coulda used that time to apex rocket spam and if my best Boss DPS in half of these encounters could be done by a Redjack holding my guns, then I think there's an issue. Before someone says it, I know Pyrogale does great damage. I know Thundercrash does great damage. (Half because they are fire and forget supers) But there are fights that you CAN'T do that. Not that it isn't metah. That doing that will at best result in no damage or at worst, get you killed. (See Pyrogale missing damage because of a 6 inch lip you missed.) They build bosses to punish you for assuming you're safe, and they treat the melee Titan like a flatfooted Warlock. You get booped, you lose damage, you might still die. Everyone else is 80% of the time, safely away throwing their damage at range and keeping a lookout for attacks and using cover.
bungie bad design flaw. im now convinced the only titan mains in their office is the janitor.
Titan just feels very monotonous when I look at my saved loadouts on titan all of them are melee based and it was that that eventually got me to swap over to warlock after so long. Where with each warlock build I can specialize into something else playing titan it's just melee over and over again with the strongest options being the strongest because it's the only thing that can keep u alive in melee range even in high end content.
@Dumland this is pretty much how I feel too. I'm a titan main but man since final shape, I have started playing my warlock and I have so much more fun and control over in game situations.
I think a really good way to describe the issue comes around 9:30 where datto says that all the titan prismatics builds are just the same builds we use with the other classes… but weaker, giving zero incentive to use the build on prismatic vs using the normal build
I don’t know if that’s the take, synthos titan dominated melee builds for at least 4 years straight. Which also included glaive and sword builds. Putting combination blow way behind titan melee builds. I think they nerfed way too many titan exotics. Synthos didn’t really need to be touched so but for some reason they don’t like when titans do absurd melee damage. Bonk hammer also didn’t really need touching the build was funny as heck and powerful.
@@royalminnis9855 very true!
@royalminnis9855 I find it funny how glaives were supposed to be thee weapon for Titans then they gutted glaive synergy with synthocepts whilst in the same season releasing a exotic armor for hunters that gave them better synergy with glaive than Titans 😂 Titans are jokes now dawg
I miss when Titans were the soldier class. Give us an aspect similar to knock em down that rewards weapon slaying. More viable grenade builds.
Same I want something similar to banner of war but instead of healing it makes nearby enemies more likely to attack u as u get more kills and deal dmg, your lethality also increases with a slew of buffs. U can combo that with banner of war or into the fray if it was on prismatic to be the ultimate tank build.
Another issue with prismatic Titan- Unbreakable: all of the grenades prismatic Titan has available are either the longest or 2nd longest grenades. If we had ONE short recharge grenade it would be more viable but the base cooldown is far too long without any good way to refresh it.
Still unbreakable might be the worst thing ive used in the game, very sub par damage for very sub par defence duration
Make unbreakable damage a buff to the next grenade thrown and give it a general elemental debuff based on the type
@@senate2674Fr it should have been an alternate class ability to barricade and thrusters. Like a passive aggressive class ability would have been huge but since it’s an aspect it has to be gigabuffed for it to be any good or give everyone an extra aspect slot to equip.
Ever since picking titan in D1 I've wanted them to be the heavy weapons/bullet storm with ARs and MGs class. I really want the devs to lean into that either in a new class or with options in the existing ones. Give Actium a giga buff with a damage perk and orb generation for rapid fire weapons too.
Actium should grant Target Lock to auto rifles and machine guns when equipped.
I agree that Actium needs a buff, but speaking personally, nothing is more boring in damage metas than "stand in well and shoot your heavy" and machine guns require that in a way other archetypes simply don't. (LFRs to some extent also.)
What I'd really like for Titan DPS, aside from maybe revitalized supers, is some way to pair Hazardous Propulsion together with strong Thruster regeneration on Arc or Prismatic, so that you could get more of those off per DPS phase than you currently can.
I love being a bullet sunami, but I get it being boring for a raid or dps scenario. Hazardous is rad, giving it more synergy would be amazing!
Technically, I think Titans might have access to some of the most exciting endgame DPS options right now (Still Hunt Celestial hunters excluded), given that you can roll Spirit of Star-Eaters and Spirit of Eternal Warrior onto one class item, allowing for a beefed up super like Twilight Arsenal that then transitions smoothly into massive dps on an aligning heavy like Edge Transit. (plus Hazardous Propulsion exists for all of the rocket lovers out there)
@LOVEMUFFIN_official Nobody is dragging Hazards into GM or Raid content, you are insane.
The biggest problem with prismatic titan is the aspect choices and the exotic class item exotic perk choices, the exotics they choose are so terrible that the only real thing you need is inmost synto. (Make baby hammer come back when you press the melee button and put it in prismatic)
Exactly. Those are the only two good exotics on Titan. All the other Titan exotics are subpar in terms of usability.
Contact isn’t good? Star eaters? Assassins cowl?
I feel like this just proves that titans are in fact crayon munchers and only use things told to them by content creators. I saw video of titan bad, it true.
@@theguardianwolf7206 The problem is Titans need Inmost Light on Stoicism since their prismatic toolbox doesn't include devour (grenade regen) or gambler's dodge (melee regen) which feed to ability loops.
As Spirit of Inmost Light is the first slot, you cannot run Assassin's cowl for invisible. Star Eaters is mid for Titans since it takes forever to launch 3 axes compared to a Nova Bomb. So your DPS isn't good for a nuke (Celestial GG / Nova Bomb) and you still deal less damage than a Star Eaters Nova Bomb lock (highest damage nuke in the game), although admittedly twilight is better in PVP for multiple kills as long you don't get shot while locked in the air.
That leaves Contact, which allows your Consecration to stun overloads or Synthoceps for general melee damage. So there isn't much choice.
Though I supposed you can make Scars / Armament work too.
@@theguardianwolf7206 contact sucks, star eater has 1 useful super that takes a year to cast and cowl is not as useful in titan
I haven’t read any comment like this anywhere so I’m going to put it out there: I think there is an element of certain aspects being so good that it is these aspects being available that make or break prismatic.
Here is what I mean. Take warlocks as an example. It is not that their stasis kit is amazing. It is bleak watchers that are. If you remove bleak watchers from their kit, their level of being able to freeze becomes comparable to that of titans and hunters. However, bleak watcher as an aspect is so potent that you can sort of abandon the stasis class entirely while having it without many consequences.
In this sense prismatic works as a bonus for warlocks, as it allows them to unleash the strongest (and also the most boring!) of their stasis aspect.
(In fact bleak watchers are so potent that you could give warlocks just that and nothing else and they would still be fine…)
A similar thing happens with the arc kit for hunters, which really just depends on the loop of combination blow + dodge. Again, prismatic comes as a bonus, since the rest of the arc kit is not really essential.
Similarly, hunter invisibility is comparable to bleak watchers in potency. Once you give it to prismatic, you made the class very potent by doing that alone.
With titans, I think there is less of that. Overshields do not compare to invisibility. Banner is the aspect I can maybe think of, but it was left out. Same with the aspect that generates sunspots.
As a warlock, the way I’ve always seen titans is as stalwart shields-men; sword in one hand shield in the other. With a brutish and destructive capability. They had honorable mysticism about them, like warlocks are inscrutable and mystical, or hunters compassionate, daring survivalists. But I feel the fantasy has separated from gameplay, mostly for titan. It suck’s seeing them basically crayon eating punchers. Especially when the game kinda doesn’t handle cqc well.
Three colors of fist and just as useful as a white crayon :D
We did the master Salvation's Edge challenge today. I started on prismatic but after a while switched to strand because survivability and melee regen are much higher than on prismatic.
Also its crazy how many benifits combination blow gives: stacking damage buff (up to 300%), hp back, start health regeneration , full class ability back.
For titan you have to use at least an aspect + exotic to get the same effect.
Bro Titans can’t get anywhere close to that self contained loop.
Strand BOW still goes hard. The issue is that it's the only truly viable end game build.
Hazardous Propulsion and the concept behind it should be what Bungie focuses on for Titan if they aren't going for a tank class. Turn us into Mr. Torgue
I remember when we were all like aww dammit 5th subclass is just green first of havoc but it ended up being pretty good. Still wish we had a stasis or strand machine gun super but the new super is awesome with star eaters so its a start!
I’d like unbreakable to last longer when used, do more damage and grant grenade energy based on damage blocked with maxing out the meter fully refunding it. I want to see all the barricade abilities on the class item work somewhat with thruster. I want to see more ways for the fragments to tie back into Titan aspects more and for the aspects to interact with one another more. It’s not unfun, just overshadowed and generally frustrating in comparison to warlock or hunter prismatic in higher tier activities.
it just needs to be good LOL
I'm so glad multiple content creators are mentioning this. I was getting so frustrated with Prismatic in general--even more so with Titan. I really hope Bungie fixes it soon.
All i want is for Titans to be THE TANK CLASS
And for Hunters to be the fastest class in the game
It's Nerf, or nothing
In Titan’s case, it’s Nerf
@@the1theonlyg248 unfortunately 😢😢
In Titan's case with Bungo: It's nerf AND nothing.
@@Guile_The_Exile yep, that’s destiny for you
And oh boy, what a nerf thats gonna be
Bungie developers treat Titans like tanks, but they see tanks as battering rams and completely ignore the giant gun on top.
Hazardous Propulsion is what the Titan kit should have focused into instead of different coloured ways to punch something. Remember Ranger and Colossus from Anthem? Artillery, cannons, miniguns, flamethrowers, rocket salvos, just HEAVY WEAPONS.
I'll even give you a lore reason. Sunbreakers learn to use their hammers not just as weapons but more like they're originally invented for, to BUILD. So they start making all the weapons listed above and then some.
Yea it amazes me how we don’t have a super that’s just a giant lmg with a shit ton of ammo n proc ignitions or something like it could be like golden gun for hunters. Hell even an aspect that lets u spawn the rise of iron axe and you get its full kit just like in d1. They don’t ever build into the fantasy aspect at all for titans. Or the more kills we get the stronger we get by dealing more dmg n becoming more resistant on kills but enemies are more likely to attack you so it can be like a taunt in a mmorpg.
Or just like u said with anthem n the colossus, the titan can consume the barricade to summon a turret n depending on your super or something it could be different ones like arc is a Tesla tower jolting nearby enemies, solar is a flame turret n it could be dismountable n used manually by the titan only like stuff like that.
I like that description. Tanks aren't just big things that run into things, they have cannons that can dish out pain from quite a ways away. Titans don't get the part though for some reason.
I would kill for this. Just some form of artillery subclass. I love my armamentarium, but I'm always reminded that it never defined the titan, yet it was a staple in D1 and made me into a walking mortar.
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I wish Titan be the "heavy weapon and heavy ammo" class again.
The only time recently where I've appreciated a defensive role on a team was during the Excision GM, two Ursas were amazing there. Otherwise I don't really see defensive titans anywhere.
yesss that was me in my run. i miss running ursas or alpha lupi and banner shield to protect my team or generate a TON of orbs for them so they can go ability crazy. that alone made me realize that not only are titans in a bad spot but the game itself has strayed from having encounters that allow titan to shine. we had instances where it made sense to have a titan defend you. everything is designed around warlocks having a well and hunters instant max dps.
i remember how in the harder difficulty menagerie against the taken ogre boss or in black armory forge mode when we were all under power, having a banner titan was CLUTCH in shielding everyone
I wish so hard we got Into the Fray instead of Drengrs Lash as the supercharged aspect for Prismatic Titan. Give it the Diamond Lance treatment and make any ability kills spawn Tangles. Really gives the Identity of being crazy tanky to the Prismatic Titan bc they could easily stack Woven Mail and other forms of resistance.
So I've been a Titan main since D1 and there has always been a lack of care for the class as a whole. Some nerfs that affected utility like the shoulder charge nerf expending energy or the lack of any movement utility makes the class hard to play. My favorite thing in D1 was the ability to Titan skate, it gave a power fantasy of a fast, hard hitting tank. You had a factor of aggression that no other class could match. But now not only are we the slowest class but we don't have any way to close the gap. Ward of Dawn nerf made no sense, it wasn't even utilized to even warrant that change. Overall I think they have to redefine what the class means. Preferably some more movement abilities and a super that isn't in your face. We have no utility outside of CQC. And if that's the direction we're going with, then make a way for us to get in and out quickly. Just my two cents.
Should have talked about titan classes in general because its not just prismatic that has these issues
Titan is the epitome of “Live and die by the sword”
at this point its moreso just dying
I was really enjoying Prismatic Titan, but then I realized that was because it let me play Stasis Titan with good melee options.
I really want to see someone make a build for unbreakable aspect because i think its a really cool concept.
I’ve got a really good one I’ve been using on Void Titan, it uses armamenteruem and offensive bulwark and a few fragments that let me get orbs + devour on an Unbreakable kill which I can spam up to 3 times consecutively because of armamenteruem
Trust me when I say I tried, ursa furiosa buried bloodline devour momentum transfer everything to get that grenade back and make it as useful as possible, it's just not worth it. It needs to be more resilient in difficult content, i've been killed straight through it multiple times, and it just needs to do more in general, throwing a normal grenade tends to be of more value in almost every situation.
Same, but you can't use it during transcendence, which is kinda stupid. You can loop it fairly reliably on void, though.
I used it with no backup plans, Offensive bulwark and perfect paradox. It's a nice loop and you have to play super aggressive to keep your over shield and unbreakable constantly proccing.
Spirit of the bear and verity makes that aspect very strong
As a Titan main, I'm glad the community is coming together to say Prismatic Titan is a one-trick pony with melee spam. We need more versatility. Please, Bungie, make us Prismatic Titans better.
The problem with titans is that they struggle to keep up with the three main types of traits a fireteam needs, being ad-clear, support and boss dps. Warlocks have historically just been the apex class for ad clear and support, while hunters and titans have always been fighting over being the highest damage class. While titans have an amazing damage set up with strand melees, it can be very situational compared to the hunter’s amazing ranged dps of still hunt and celestial. When it comes to prismatic, titans are very melee oriented as well, which can be tricky in harder content.
I think it would be cool if titans were weapon specialists, with perks fragments and aspects that play into heavy and special weapons. Imagine if you could run a shotgun primary titan build, with machine guns granting buffs to teammates...
Came here fast as FUCK boi for some pro-titan content and the transition into the balls content has tripped up the gerbil in my head.
Lmfaoo this legit made me laugh. Also HELL YEAH Titan CONTENT IS ALWAYS WELCOMED.
Honestly, this feels all too familiar.
I’ve been a titan main for years now, and this sentiment of titans being useless had always been there.
Even back when bubble synergised with warlocks’ well, you only needed a max of 1 titan for the ulti, every other titan felt like a liability to most people. And it didn’t help that every fireteam needed a well, but bubble was just a nice bonus.
So as long as I’ve been playing, titans had that identity crisis of not being best at anything (well, maybe apart from personal survival, titan gave me an easy time in all my flawless raids), and all of this simply peaked in Final Shape.
Let's be honest... Titans... We're useless in endgame content, our supers are useless and very niche, our exotics aren't good unless its for something that's niche as well, and we're not able to do anything without the other 2 classes doing it, and being better than us! Bungie gave us nothing to use and ran with it. As a Titan main, I've been playing the other classes more than Titan because the other classes have more usefulness than my main character and I will find myself being kicked from SE, for running it on Titan.
This touches alot on the problem i kind of have with Prismatic in general, most of the builds with it essentially just copy a previous build from a specific subspec (combo blow etc) and i feel like part of the issue with the defensive builds is made worse by the fact that ppl now end up with restoration, devour, woven mail etc stacked from the same build meaning that theres less incentive for defensive abilities.
Melee builds will never be viable in higher end content cause no matter how protected you are at -20 to -25 light you’re still going to get nuked by the smallest enemy even up close
Titans, the "tanky punch monkey" class that gets both out-tanked (Renewal + Crytarachne's class item) and out-punched (Caliban + Liars class item) by Hunters.
2:00
Words of wisdom right there
Titans having an identity crisis realising that all they can do is punch but with different flavors is kinda funny lmao
TDT made a really good video talking about how titans have no identity and nothing unique to them, even suggested some changes
But this has been a problem for years now, I've never interested that much in playing titan because of this, almost all of its builds are around punching, the most unique one I've used was the og stasis+stronghold, but even that got nuke over years, they removed the instant heal on parry(doesn't seem but its a game changer), added banner of war which is not bad but completely overshadowed stasis and now they nerfed lament survivabilty and damage on top of all that, is it still usable yes but its not as fun as it once was
it's frustrating bc we only occasionally get melee builds, and then they're immediately nerfed AND designed out of future content... so what are we left with
Can I just have some more grenade-based builds on Titan again? HoIL and Ashen Wake aren't doing it for me like they used to, and while Unbreakable is fun, it doesn't feel very grenade-like. I can do more than punch things!
seriously!! Ashen wake was my favorite build pre subclass 3.0. Despite what anyone might say, Bungie absolutely stealth nerfed it. it was a slight adjustment but but it was enough to drastically impact the ability cycle of it in pve. i religiously ran it so i could tell it was noticeably different and not viable as it used to be. coupled with the fact that they nerfed the hell out of sunspots, which i still do not understand as bleak watchers on warlock are far more oppressive than sunspots ever were. i really don't get why bungie nerfs titans so much. we absolutely have been nerfed more than warlocks and hunters its crazy
What sucks about the Prismatic Titan kit isnt just the Melee focus to be successful, its the low survivability with it, part of why Bonk hammer and Banner of War were so loved were how you could play aggressive and it would keep you alive while using your melee for whatever you want, theres no bonk, no sunspots, no banner, unless you make a lot of orbs or use buried bloodline there isnt much uptime with things like devour or woven mail either, and the only source of Overshield outside the artifact is Unbreakable which can have a lengthy cooldown based on your discipline stat, meanwhile you get combo blow on hunters and devour on warlocks that let you play at least somewhat more aggressive and restoring health as you kill enemies, it just would be nice to have something as part of the kit vs just from orb generation which can be harder for multikills outside your super in higher end content
Here's another thing about Unbreakable: Whenever I use it to block enemy attacks, the enemies stop attacking. What kind of fantasy is that, Bungo?
watching that titan prismatic grenade bounce off the taken blight will never not make me snicker
TDT made a really good video highliting this issue as well. Glad to see people talking about the titan problem more.
Great minds I suppose huh?
I would LOVE to know if you think its an identity problem too as well as if the rest of the classes besides prismatic should be updated
The other subs needs buffs too. Arc has been dead since storm nades got nerfed, void since HOIL, and stasis has never been good. Titan has 0 flexibility either. You melee, or you swap classes
I had some ideas of how I would change the subclass. I'm a Warlock main so the Titan mains can let me know how they would like them.
So to start, I restructured Prismatic with 2 goals, to eliminate redundancies and to add sustain of any kind.
To start with the melees
Shield Throw -> Shield Bash
Hammer Strike -> Throwing Hammer
Shield Bash gives a full overshield on kill for better sustain than the partial OS the throw provides and does more danage than Hammer Strike. Hammer Throw is iconic to Titans and provies Cure on pickup.
For Grenades, I thought they were mostly fine and varied with playstyle and all are effective. I decided to switch Suppressor to Scatter grenade but I don't have a strong opinion here.
For Supers, i realized that Hammer of Sol is useless compared to Twilight Arsenal and Bladefury so I'd prefer Burning Maul as a more unique and usable choice.
Aspects are tricky. My first thought here was to look at Drengr's Lash and Diamond Lance because they, in essence, have the same function. After looking at the Stasis aspects, I came to realize Behemoth's aspects are really only good on Behemoth and that DL was the most subclass agnostic so I chose to keep it. There are 2 options with Strand aspects: convert the lash into Into the Fray or Banner of War. I think BoW would be more balanced without Grapple but would step on the toes of Knockout, the only real Arc aspect choice. Although, I'm not opposed to having both. What I decided on was Into the Fray but more opened up. Have it give Woven Mail on any elemental pickup, destroying a tangle or Diamond Lance, and on Super activation. I think the danage reduction of Woven Mail is a different type of sustain that still synergizes with Knockout.
I must also acknowledge the preference to switch Consecration for Sunspots. In which case, I'd switch Drengr's to Flechette Storm.
I also switched up some Class exotic perks and changed in which column they are.
In column 1, Abeyant is switched for Icefall Mantle. Maybe not the most meta pick but it does offer a different playstyle.
Also in column 1, Alpha Lupi becomes Lorely Splendor. A good sustain choice that does cost your barricade. It'd work whether Prismatic had Sunspots or not so it'd be impossible to make more but is a better sustain IMO.
In column 2, Severance Enclosure becomes Peregrine Greaves. I thought Severance and Point Contact were redundant together and that Point Contact was more desirable since it doesn't require kills. Peregrine would also give any reason to choose Shield Bash over other choices and can pair with Assassins Cowl.
In column 2, Eternal Warrior becomes Pyrogale. Eternal Warrior may be somewhat helpful but its boring. Pyrogale would only offer the Burning Maul buff and not the Consecration buff. I also didn't want Pyrogale and Star Eaters to be in separate columns for balance reasons.
Maybe I'm off base with some of this but I tried hard to create more synergies and make different gameplay loops and for it to be mostly viable.
Into the Fray would be the easiest possible fix for Titan. Not only do you get access to Woven Mail, but you get melee recharge rate while in it, which would actually give Titans some form of ability regen. Abeyant doesn’t even need to be removed at that point. All you’d need to do is switch which half of the exotic is active and it’ll be fine
Prismatic titan needs quite literally 2 changes IMO. Replace unbreakable with Controlled demo and make it work with Drengrs Lash and Diamon lances. Gives offensive power to crowd control and another avenue for sustain from range. Also brings use to shield throw as a ranged melee. This would give that real prismatic interaction where you have an avenue to truly combine light and dark abilities. Also put spirit of Cadmus in the second Column. make it so you can make lances from behind your barrier but it doesn’t generate crystals on enemy impact. This would give a meaningful way to combine titans crowd control abilities and have a multi pronged crowd control loop based around your barricade which would be pretty cool
Yeah prismatic titan feels like it has no synergy for survivability while being aggressive, you cant get devour(except if you have buried bloodline),stasis shards dont give you frost armor and health back, strand without an exotic cannot give you woven mail easily. I went back to a void titan, and I get overshield/devour nonstop, I can weaken enemies (which works great with artifact). Can constantly heal myself and teamates with the detonation aspect. And with doomfangs with gravitons get my super back quickly and get 4x void weapon damage... Even a shatter build on behemoth has more survivability with having 36% damage reduction for 13 seconds that refreshes on shard pickup while healing you. Strand is just banner of war and can do whatever lol. The light and dark subclasses can easily build into a tank that can support/deal damage. But prismatic has just baffled me lol
I feel like if i was at bungie i would want to completely rework titan into a gunzerker style class. Pop a super and overcharge your weapons and abilities a bit like song of flame warlocks, but instead make the barriacade a mobile shield that reduces incoming damage and buffs outgoing damage like volt from warframe. Then you have the frontline tank aspect of the fantasy mixed with the actual ranged damage aspect.
Even sitting at 100 strength giving a base cooldown of 57 seconds and with the Facet of Balance I find myself stuck without a melee charge. Then I get to sit there and watch as my hunter teammate dodges punches then dodges and keeps that loop going. It makes titan feel lackluster.
I've been enjoying a shatter build on prismatic titan, using a hoarfrost exotic class item and glacier grenades and veglas curve. Thunderclap is very good for smashing lots of crystals at once
My opinion has arrived
Jokes old now bud
When i used twilight arsenal i realised that its the first shutdown super for titans compared with the other clasess, its a one and done and you stay in the same place unlike T-crash
I would also like a full revision on stasis man it stills feels underpowered :(
I’m not even gonna lie, stasis Titan’s super can crank MASSIVE damage with the right build, like, the highest in the game. However, what bosses feasibly are going to let you slam the ground right in front of them without booping you or killing you? Not even to mention that the majority of bosses move around, making your attacks wasted if they do much more than stand absolutely still, and that’s if the boss is even ABLE to be hit with the attack to begin with.
@@hammyboi891 the omega damage was beacuse of a bug that caused the cristals to explode twice wich was fixed when TFS launched, i have not made any damage test tho maybe its still doing that omega damage but yeah i agree about the bosses thing. I would like a buff on some cooldowns, my main problem is the uptime with stasis titan.
why is bungie so afraid of melee? Like, what aversion is there to punching things? Bungie nerfs scouts/snipers because they consider them "safe" options, but when it comes to melee, the unsafest option, they just....nerf it more? I'm not saying titan shouldn't be reworked to something else, but like if titan was at the very least the defacto punch class and wasn't outclassed by hunters/warlocks it'd help a lot more.
The thing about melee builds is this: if a character is capable of wading into melee with difficult enemies and surviving, they're basically going to be incredibly hard to kill even in some other context. So far D2 hasn't really been great about designing encounters where being in short range is actually a helpful strategy--usually it's either intended to be part of the challenge (think anything where difficult adds spawn near a zone or plate you need to be standing on), or it's a bad idea entirely (the "boss stomp oneshots you" era). Plus, with explosive weapons frequently being the best DPS choice historically, that's another reason you're gonna wanna put ten meters or more between you and your target.
If you've played Hades 2, you've likely encountered a few boss attacks that threaten the entire room EXCEPT the spaces directly next to them. Can't think of a D2 boss that does anything like that.
Facet of Command + Two Tail Fox + new exotic chest piece.
I never had so much fun with my titan before, then the nerf happened 😭
i actually do really like Unbreakable and Drengr's Lash with Abeyant leap for gms, yeah they dont syngergize but its nice to have woven mail and void overshields stacking and to have a bunch of crowd control with transcendence
I like the part where the prismatic titaned and then the guardian and witness kissed
banner of war and the ability to throw tangles for healing just like with strand would be awesome!
This is why people really enjoyed arc Titan with heart of inmost light when we had the previous charged with light mechanic. It made storm grenades insanely strong and gave titans a viable build that wasn’t just melee. It even worked pretty well on void too. But the changes to HoiL and charged with light, and the nerfs to storm grenades really killed any viable non melee build for titans.
At least with strand and solar they have great survivability and have better aspects than prismatic titan.
Currently unbreakable with solar grenade is doing like more damage than its should and its absolutely crazy. It may get fixed but until then its been a blast ,literally. Cheers.
As a Hunter main I started on Hunter, went to Warlock next, then to Titan in terms of unlocking prismatic and wow the difference is insane. Hunters have a bunch of engaging options for when you decide to swap off double nighthawk, and warlocks easily have the best starting kit, just throw on osmiomancy and you have basically unlimited up time with cold snaps. Titans don’t seem to have abilities that synergize well outside the 1 or 2 obvious builds and I think part of that is the abilities Bungie decided to give to prismatic Titan have the slowest cooldowns on average. They need something to better tie these abilities into reducing the cooldown of the others more than just momentum transfer and impact induction imo.
In a game where, at higher difficulties, everything 1 shots you being in melee range is a pretty fucking bad idea
My Titan teammates in the current Glassway GM are absolutely destroying champs with Prismatic. Prismatic Titan might have one useful build but at least it's really strong.
That’s true. I’m a Titan main doing the same thing. I feel strong. But nothing feels new. And I can’t stray from the one good thing because the rest is lacking
If it's up to me, i'd do the next:
1- unbreakable will regenerate grenade energy based on the bar up to 50%
2- put that aspect that gives woven mail and melee regen "forgot its name"
3- Make void overshield gives bonus melee damage based on how much overshield the titan has "passively" like warlocks with thredlings, up to 30%, maybe?
4- give caliban and mabye nizarecs sin? Could give insane regen, but come on, we're already at that point
Side note: while im ok with hunters doing crazy melee damage hunters should NOT be able to do it better than titans no matter what
Glad I'm not crazy for thinking this. So many things Prisma Titan got all feel like they do the same thing. Instead of being a multi-element subclass where you can pick a bunch of different things, it's a subclass where almost everything does the same thing but you can pick the element they're assigned to.
I would love to see the banner shield from sentinal titan get the same treatment as the unbreakable aspect. It would give sentinel titans a place in endgame pve to provide support and then damage. Whether it be from an exotic or a rework I think it would be awesome.
TDT made a great point saying “Prismatic Titan isn’t the problem, it’s where it came from that’s the problem.” I think prismatic Titan has only highlighted the problems that’s titans have been dealing with for a while now and they do need some serious love. I would love to see them get something that would make them fit more in the “battlefield commander” fantasy instead of just “bonk”
The big issue i see with titans in general, is that they don’t offer strong neutral game ability loops like combinations blow hunter or sunbracer warlock and if they offer any they are pretty vulnerable like skullfront.
This could be traced back to a lack of synergy inside the subclass, or an overfocus on the melee attack, which leads to one or two strong abilities, but not to cohesive builds.
Still advocating for a full class rework to making hard light guns like a strand double minigun and other things like that and a shield only titans have and some utility powers that are better.
I really enjoy Diamond Lance with Drengr combined with the new rocket chestpiece. It really nukes stuff in regular stuff up till the master nightfall. idk about GM or contest but insta-nuking every elite and champion by hitting the thruster next to them and watch them as they are strung up and getting missle rained on.
I played Titan quite a bit in Pantheon and Onslaught, and the months leading up to Final Shape. I played that entire campaign on Titan first, but switched to Hunter and haven't touched it since. I miss my Titan and hope they dial back their concentration on melee.
My Huneter feels like more of a Titan than my titan does rn
What it boils down to me is that Titan is easily identifiable as "the Melee Class". Hunters aren't bottled into one identity that I can think of (they have a vast variety of possible builds) and Warlocks are essentially "the Space Wizard", but that is also such a broad term while also offering the player tons of other build variations. Titans just don't have that. It's essentially "pick your favorite melee flavor." It's very boring imo.
When using drengrs lash with repulser, it actually doesn’t send out a shockwave that suspends. It instead places a tangle in your places which explodes 2 seconds later and suspends targets it hits.
the grenade shield aspect can be used to block dmg from the witness shape attacks, so you can stand in it even if dmg is hitting to confrim your glyph breaker
titan axes super with star eaters is just so nice, just under 1mil. when surges were still a thing, i managed to get just under 1mil below a still hunt nighthawk hunter by using axes super, stasis linear and cloudstrike with the auto loading mods, i was not matching the surges with anything other than the linear either. 6.3m on witness
From my knowledge the only 2 titans that finished the day 1 raid were using strand and void. The choices for the void and solar super clash with the aspects. Example Maul and Consecration work well together with Pyrogale, and Shield works with Unbreakable with Ursa. By only having 1 of these is hinders the setup slightly making the basic void and solar sets just better than Prismatic. i used the banner shield and Unbreakable for the legendary story when playing with friends because it was the best option for supporting my friends (the ammount of super regen and orb dropps i had was insane). Whenever add clear was over prismatic just couldn't sustain itself due to having to kill with a melee to get anything going. I did better in that fight with Solar, Strand and Void than i did with Prismatic due to the detrimental design philosophy. Drengir isn't worth without Leap equipped, ice lance is less effective without icecap, and arc in general either needs point contact or skullfort, which both need melee kills to be worth using.
-Glacial Quake is great damage but you are completely defenceless when using it.
-Hammer is just worse without sunspots,
-Thunderclash when it doesn't phase through the boss (this happens so often i just refuse to use it anymore) is just ok damage now (even with falling star it feels weaker than ever).
-Blade barrage is decent but has no range so bad for ranged and airborne bosses.
Twilight is great, but it is still completely outclassed by other classes damage outputs.
Just changing the Aspects is going to be a huge endeavour, since the class item was designed for those aspects it would make all class items with perks connected directly have to be changed or they would be useless.
I said before, I wished they went ahead with the strand flamethrower. Either that or I had an idea for a titan ranged ult. Imagine a blend between roaming and one shot. I imagined two arm cannons being summoned, and when you press the ult button you can roam and shoot stuff with them, if you held the button then you combine both arm cannons and shoot off a big blast.
I'm tired of the amount of melee roaming supers titans have. I haven't switched off the new void super since it's one of the only ranged supers we have that deal decent damage in a short amount of time.
I’ve always felt that in end game, I’m playing the game on hard mode as my Titan. Like "X class can potentially do X thing easier" but I’m "sticking with my chosen main and gritting it out til I get this done" - with the exception of pre-nerf Banner of War destruction (which lol look at that Hunters can do it now)
Since Well was so dominant for the majority of D2, it always felt like Titans don't have that "defensive class" identiy they sort of had in D1 with Bubble. The Bubble is all-together worse than the Well for DPS in my opinion. They could buff banner shield and make that a thing but for me personally, holding a Banner Shield is a boring thing to be doing in a Raid environment while my friends are all unleashing hell on our enemies and at least Warlocks can fire their weapons while standing in the well they just dropped. It's a complex issue I acknowledge that. Maybe we just need to be able to add more supportive capability to our teams. Bastion I feel is an excellent part of the Void kit that helps teammates. More of that.
As far as support (and forgive my lack of knowledge of H&W - but afaik - Hunters get Omni-Occulus to help with survivability, Warlocks get Cenotaph and Speaker's Sight. Titans get... more gloves
Prismatic Titan
Aspects- Knockout, Dreg's Lash
Facet/Fragments- Hope, Balance, Courage, Purpose, Protection
Super- Thundercrash (For Amplified) or Bladefury (For Woven Mail)
Grenade- Pulse Nade
Melee- Frenzied Blade
Class Ability- Preferably Thrusters due to low cooldown, but any is ok
Class exotic- Spirit of Inmost Light/Armamentarium
Must have Mods-
(Helm)-
Hands On (more opportunities due to 3 charges), Dynamo
(Arms)-
Momentum Tranfer, Impact Induction, and grenade kickstart
(Chest)-
Fill 3 with Charged Up for Max 6 Stacks
(Legs)-
Stacks on Stacks, Absolution
(Class)-
Powerful Attraction, Distribution
[Can fill in the rest of mods to match content that you are running.]
Gameplay loop-
Essentially ability spam/loop with Spirit of Inmost Light and Facet of Balance. To start loop, use Class Ability to suspend (dark debuff), throw pulse grenade (multiple hits with pulses count to Impact induction, also with Facet of Dominance if chosen will jolt for mini-stun and more damage with Facet of Courage), can use melee to finish enemies and activate Momentum Transfer. Active Class Ability to scoop up nearby Orbs to reduce cooldown of abilities. Repeat loop.
Lmk what you guys think
Datto is quite literally the only creator I watch the ad reads for. The creativeness is unreal
I actually really like using Drangr's Lash on Prismatic as it lets me put bigger mini-boss enemies on hold making them easy to setup up for then igniting them with Consecration as well as being another darkness debuff to help charge Transcendence, plus I use Rally Barricade with Facet of Hope so I'm throwing them around basically every 10 seconds. (Also plays nicely into HoiL since I wanna be cycling all my abilities with that anyway.)
It would really hurt my playstyle if that was removed just because players aren't willing to experiment, if anything I feel like Knockout is bait on Prismatic and taking that is what is narrowing people in further and in some ways I wish it was a revised Touch of Thunder that effects the other grenades instead since I use Pulse Grenades with the Jolting fragment. (Though I get neither of the other two Arc Aspects really would mesh all that well together without really changing them.)
For me adds just melt at -20 content from all getting ignited making me feel like an aggressive killing machine even in endgame content, I honestly like how in the fray I can be on Prismatic and has quickly become my favorite Titan subclass to play, I just go full crayons on the enemies.
If I were in charge of deciding which aspects go onto prismatic this is what I would pick: Flechette storm, sol Invictus, diamond lance, bastion, Knockout.
The only thing that I've been enjoying for prismatic titan is with second chance. it has some usability at longer ranges and it does pop barriers in one throw. It has synergy with the episodic artifact as well with the weaken -> overshield and doing extra damage to weakened enemies with void weapons.
At the very least I've been able to use shiver strike for the first time without being dragged by the rest of stasis titan and its one of the most fun abilities I've used. Only problem is that you need to have monte carlo glued to you so you can actually use the damn thing more than once per activity
Drenger's lash should be swapped with flechette storm and void should be controlled demolition. Make controlled demo work with ignition and shatter AND make it to when the explosion hits an enemy they then also explode and if that explosion hits the first enemy they explode again, allowing for infinite explosions granting titan an interesting gameplay
You said it perfectly, in a world where I mained solar titan for 6 months, it feels the same but with 3 melees lol and no healing nades.
I have found Diamond Lance + Drengr's with Pulse nades, Sentinel Shield, Thruster and HoIL to be fun. It kinda devolves into throwables spam but it's at least something *other* than just trying to melee everything (although the Lances and Tangles spawning amidst enemies still means the loop puts you in the fray)
They should add into the Frey and make it so that elemental pickups give you woven mail. And control demolition
I've had a lot of fun deliberately playing non-consecration builds on Prisma titan just to limit test the kit, and I think some smaller changes to existing abilities would go a long way. Unbreakable is loads of fun, but needs a duration increase; using it with 2 grenade charges via armamentarium feels great, almost as if it should be the default behavior. A range increase would also help; it works a lot like Handheld Supernova, and it feels the range should be brought up to similar levels. Though one big drawback of Unbreakable is its lack of synergy with spirit of inmost light or HoIL as it doesn't trigger, so that functionality also improve it greatly. Diamond lance still feels behind other aspects, and some improvements to its area of effect and direct impact damage need to be brought up to levels closer to tangles, even if that costs us a cooldown increase, and it would start to feel like a viable choice outside of the free fragment slot. We also really need an aspect to help Hammer of Sol, since almost none of the spirits synergize with it outside of Star Eater, and even then, in my testing it was the weakest feast of light empowered super by about 25-30%.