Hi Jim. Bianca V3 arrived this a.m. FWIW, I got the Black in order to tone down the shiny kitchen objects visible from my living space. Pulled some plug-and-play shots to satisfy it works well enough to get me going tomorrow. Then the fun begins. I bought my first machine on your reccomendation--the Isomac Tea. Been through a few "very last machine" I'll ever buy since. Maybe this time I mean it.
Thanks for the great video. How does the taste of espresso produced here using flow variation compare with espresso produced by the Berrezza Straega using pressure variation? Which tastes better?
My full review, including a comparison of the Bianca and Strega, is here: www.home-barista.com/blog/lelit-bianca-review-t54489.html Brief answer: There is very little difference. The Bianca is easier to control and can do longer shots. This only makes a difference for very light roasts and very long shots.
Is there any reason why you start the process with the valve almost fully open and then decrease the flow for pre-infusion? Usually the videos show that the FSD is open 1/8 of a turn at the very beginning, at which point the pre-infusion occurs.
Prior to the pressure rising, the only thing that is happening is that the space above the puck is filling with water. There is very little soaking into the puck at this point. So there is no point throttling the flow and wasting time. But if you are not in a hurry; you can let the flow trickle in and it won't make a difference in the result.
@@HBsJim Thanks! I thinks, for me it's easier to start with 1/8 an not to touch the FCD until the first droplets than find the point of 2.5-3 bars (that would be much easier in a machine with pressure profiling like Flair or Crem ONE PROFILER, but, anyway, I am not in a hurry).
Hi Jim! This was a really good video, thank you. I am waiting for my Bianca to arrive, so quite eager to start playing around with this. Hope I can bother you with a question related to grinder, as I understand you are fairly well versed on the subject: I am moving from a Mignon Specialita to a Lagom P64 in a couple of months as well. Being a Norwegian, most of my coffee here in Scandinavia are medium-light roast, and I also do some pourovers. This indicates that I should look to the new unimodal burrs, but I see some experiences that these burrs grinds a bit closer to zero + are faster flowing. Will this potentially make profiling shots like you demonstrated problematic? Would I be better oss with High Uniformity + maybe keep the Specialita as my pour-over grinder? Your thoughts would be very appreciated :)
I'll be interested in hearing your experience. I've played with unimodal flat burr grinders at friends' places, but never tested one thoroughly. There are now a few 64mm, SSP burr, single dose grinders out there at reasonable prices; so it would be good to get a sense of their espresso performance. Olease post your thoughts on home-barista.com when the time comes. I'll be especially intererested in how well they feed at finer grind settings, since this is where the standard espresso flat burr grinders have difficulties.
Hi Eirik, I'm using the Bianca and the Lagom P64 (with the original unimodal burrs - "unimodal v1") with light roasts for over a year now. I can tell you that these burrs grind a lot finer than standard flat burrs, however, you won't notice it when you look at the flow. Fines are practically missing which means that when you are doing longer preinfusion you will certainly grind too fine that results in uneven flow (channeling). The flow will be too fast, body is missing due to low pressure (= low extraction of lipids) and the acidity will be muted. The best practice is to do a ramp up with full or slightly reduced flow and then once the pressure is up close the paddle to a 20-30° opening. That prevents an extreme acceleration in flow and the pressure will naturally fall to perhaps 3-5 bars resulting in a flow rate between 2,5 and 3,0 ml/s. The taste will be much clearer than classic flat burr extractions and the acidity is balanced even with a short preinfusion because the grind is so fine. The unimodal burrs are great burrs if you know how to use them. The unimodal v1 are a little more extreme but still manageable. If you love pourovers I would look at nothing less than the new unimodals.
@@Sonus1002 Really appreciate your input Max! I ordered with the new v2 / Multipurpose burrs, so I might expect slightly more fines (?). Out of curiosity, have you experimented with RPM? I have heard that theoretically there should be a little more fines when grinding at higher RPM, but if this have any real world effect is another matter.
@@80Entreri Yes, the v2 produce more fines + can come closer together because the sharp edges are flattened to little triangles. So the pressure drop I am experiencing (3-5 bar) is probably less severe with your burrs. There will be slightly more body and less clarity. I did experiment with RPM in the beginning and stopped doing it. I always run at max RPM. I'm not completely sure how it affects taste but please feel free to experiment. However, I did a grind size analysis at a filter grind level and found that a higher RPM produced a slightly (!) more homogenous grind size distribution. The differences are marginal in contrast to other variables like grind size, temperature, flow rate, etc.
Hi Jim: long time follower. Why did you choose the Bianca, over say Dalla Corte Mini, or a Breville DB with needle valve mod, or now the Decent DE1+? Also, you seemed to have by-passed the “Vesuvius rage” ?
I like machines I can control on the fly, so the DE1, where the profile is preprogrammed, is not my style.. Needle valve mods have been done by many people on HB, but I'm not that DIY. And I kind of like that the needle valve that was on the original preproduction E61s has made a comeback.
Hi which baskets are you using here? I'm interested to use 15g as well but I find the stock ones too big. Also, which grinder are you using to get a fine Turkish grinds? I'm using a Rancilio Rocky and On almost at 0 but I can't seem to get that low flow it seems to flow really fast for me. Thanks
I use standard Faema/Cimbali pattern double baskets, although the ones marked "microfine," which have better machining. They do have a lot of room for 14 to 15 gram doses ; but I genraally find a lot of headspace, by adding some time to the preinfusion, makes the basket more forgiving. I'm in a minority here, most espresso-heads like VST and Strada style basket, that are sized for their intended dose and grind.
@@nusstu I use large conicals. In the video, I used a Compak with the 68mm conical set; now I use the more single dosing friendly Niche Zero with the 63mm Kony set.
One issue I've had with this machine is it's first and second pull are completely different, very low flow, high bar, on second pull, even when waiting 5 minutes. Have you run into any similar issues?
Not personally, but some people have. There is a bug on the first year's PID controller in warming up from idle (not from a cold start). It shows ready in about 10 minutes, but will run cool until about 20. Contrawise, the cold start will overheat until about 20 minutes after start up. However, the display blinks until it is ready. The Bianca is a very fast warm up machine for an E61. But you do need to give it 20 minutes to get to its proper equilibrium.
Jim it seems you use a lot of machines. For someone who just like to pull good shots for lattes would you recommend flow control or will I just waist coffee and get frustrated.
A double boiler is nice forlattes, since the extra steam pressure makes doing them much easier. Unless you have pregnant lady levels of taste acuity, the profiling capability won't really show up in milk drinks.
HBsJim Hala it’s funny you say that. I am laying next to a pregnant lady right now. I think I am going to pull the trigger on a linea mini. The Bianca seems like such a great value, but just had a latte at crema in Nashville and it blew my mind (made on a linea pb2?). Anyway the upgrade from the breville barista will be great. Thanks for the response sir.
I'm not sure, but I think it would bee very close. The Bunn Turkish burrs are a bit better than the Compak at its very fone settings. But the Niche has a softer taste and may be able to use a slightly coarser grind for the same effect. In any case, one can adjust the preinfusion time to match different grind coarseness.
The steam power is the same as many other double boiler E61s, so it is not a unique feature of the Bianca. The steam boiler is 1.5 liters, and can be set up to 1.75 bar (135 C) . At this setting, it steams 150 mL of milk in about 10 seconds. Lelit delivers a steam tip with smaller holes for those who prefer slower steam times
@@HBsJim your reviews were fine, steaming length effects generally on steaming boiler from drop down pressure and buildup. My concern was this through viewing most reviews, great machine as well as your reply.
Hi Jim, great video! If you compare the Bianca and the ECM thechnica V pid. Which one should be better if you didn’t have to use the pressure profiling? I am not a big fan of the wood on the Lelit.
I haven't used the Technica, so I can't say for sure. But it is not a dual boiler machine, and HX E61 machines require flushing for temperature control, and are in general a lot more fussy to use.
The quality of straight espresso is about the same for both machines. I prefer the Bianca because it can make coffee at all brew ratios from espresso to drip, and use all grind sizes. Ever wonder what something half way between espresso and brewed coffee tastes like? The Bianca can do it. That said, it's not something I do a lot; but mostly when I'm in a mad scientist mood.
HBsJim thank you so much 😊. I am new to home made espressos with these types of machines, and it is difficult without personally tying them to narrow the field. Your videos convey the virtual taste as well as the actual process, and this is quite helpful.
Why isn't the pressure dropping when you are lowering the flow? When you increased the flow the pressure response looked fairly smooth but when you dropped it, it seemed too slow and not as responsive.
The two are related, but not in lockstep, since the resistance of the puck to flow mostly decreases during the shot (leading to a faster pressure drop than flow drop. What you saw indicates that the puck's resistance was increasing. It's not impossible, but it's rare.
@@HBsJim so, that happens when the coffee is really fine? In this case, this won't be as rare as we thought because the entire purpose of having long preinfusions or brewing at low pressure for a longer time is to be able to extract from a really fine grind. Btw, I've even noticed this on Whole Latte's videos as well.
@@NANA-gy7yx You're probably right. The solubles from the top of the puck are reabsorbed at the bottom before they flow into the cup. Perhaps with a fine grind, the pucks resistance at the bottom can grow due to this. It would make for a good discussion on home-barista,com (plug, plug)
I have three or four scales that go to 0.1 gram resolution, have a max weight of 1000 grams and are about 2 inches square. They use two or three AA batteries and cost around $10 to $15 dollars on Ebay or Amazon. Typing in "scales 0.1g" in Amazon will get you lots of choices
Thank you for the demonstration. My Lelit Bianca V3 has just arrived. I am about to start exploring flow profiling.
Enjoy.
Hi Jim. Bianca V3 arrived this a.m. FWIW, I got the Black in order to tone down the shiny kitchen objects visible from my living space. Pulled some plug-and-play shots to satisfy it works well enough to get me going tomorrow. Then the fun begins.
I bought my first machine on your reccomendation--the Isomac Tea. Been through a few "very last machine" I'll ever buy since. Maybe this time I mean it.
An original alt.coffeeer. This one's a lot more fun and joy than the Tea. E61 boxes have come a long way; on line information exchange, not so much.
Makes my little Rancilio Silvia appear quite low-brow.
Great video, thanks!
Is there a reason why you don't purge and flush between shots?
Thanks for the great video. How does the taste of espresso produced here using flow variation compare with espresso produced by the Berrezza Straega using pressure variation? Which tastes better?
My full review, including a comparison of the Bianca and Strega, is here: www.home-barista.com/blog/lelit-bianca-review-t54489.html
Brief answer: There is very little difference. The Bianca is easier to control and can do longer shots. This only makes a difference for very light roasts and very long shots.
Is there any reason why you start the process with the valve almost fully open and then decrease the flow for pre-infusion? Usually the videos show that the FSD is open 1/8 of a turn at the very beginning, at which point the pre-infusion occurs.
Prior to the pressure rising, the only thing that is happening is that the space above the puck is filling with water. There is very little soaking into the puck at this point. So there is no point throttling the flow and wasting time. But if you are not in a hurry; you can let the flow trickle in and it won't make a difference in the result.
@@HBsJim Thanks! I thinks, for me it's easier to start with 1/8 an not to touch the FCD until the first droplets than find the point of 2.5-3 bars (that would be much easier in a machine with pressure profiling like Flair or Crem ONE PROFILER, but, anyway, I am not in a hurry).
Hi Jim! This was a really good video, thank you. I am waiting for my Bianca to arrive, so quite eager to start playing around with this. Hope I can bother you with a question related to grinder, as I understand you are fairly well versed on the subject: I am moving from a Mignon Specialita to a Lagom P64 in a couple of months as well. Being a Norwegian, most of my coffee here in Scandinavia are medium-light roast, and I also do some pourovers. This indicates that I should look to the new unimodal burrs, but I see some experiences that these burrs grinds a bit closer to zero + are faster flowing. Will this potentially make profiling shots like you demonstrated problematic? Would I be better oss with High Uniformity + maybe keep the Specialita as my pour-over grinder? Your thoughts would be very appreciated :)
I'll be interested in hearing your experience. I've played with unimodal flat burr grinders at friends' places, but never tested one thoroughly. There are now a few 64mm, SSP burr, single dose grinders out there at reasonable prices; so it would be good to get a sense of their espresso performance. Olease post your thoughts on home-barista.com when the time comes. I'll be especially intererested in how well they feed at finer grind settings, since this is where the standard espresso flat burr grinders have difficulties.
Hi Eirik,
I'm using the Bianca and the Lagom P64 (with the original unimodal burrs - "unimodal v1") with light roasts for over a year now. I can tell you that these burrs grind a lot finer than standard flat burrs, however, you won't notice it when you look at the flow. Fines are practically missing which means that when you are doing longer preinfusion you will certainly grind too fine that results in uneven flow (channeling). The flow will be too fast, body is missing due to low pressure (= low extraction of lipids) and the acidity will be muted. The best practice is to do a ramp up with full or slightly reduced flow and then once the pressure is up close the paddle to a 20-30° opening. That prevents an extreme acceleration in flow and the pressure will naturally fall to perhaps 3-5 bars resulting in a flow rate between 2,5 and 3,0 ml/s. The taste will be much clearer than classic flat burr extractions and the acidity is balanced even with a short preinfusion because the grind is so fine. The unimodal burrs are great burrs if you know how to use them. The unimodal v1 are a little more extreme but still manageable. If you love pourovers I would look at nothing less than the new unimodals.
@@Sonus1002 Really appreciate your input Max! I ordered with the new v2 / Multipurpose burrs, so I might expect slightly more fines (?). Out of curiosity, have you experimented with RPM? I have heard that theoretically there should be a little more fines when grinding at higher RPM, but if this have any real world effect is another matter.
@@80Entreri Yes, the v2 produce more fines + can come closer together because the sharp edges are flattened to little triangles. So the pressure drop I am experiencing (3-5 bar) is probably less severe with your burrs. There will be slightly more body and less clarity.
I did experiment with RPM in the beginning and stopped doing it. I always run at max RPM. I'm not completely sure how it affects taste but please feel free to experiment. However, I did a grind size analysis at a filter grind level and found that a higher RPM produced a slightly (!) more homogenous grind size distribution. The differences are marginal in contrast to other variables like grind size, temperature, flow rate, etc.
@@Sonus1002 Thank you so much for sharing this! Really look forward to the grinder showing up in a few months (late November shipment on my unit) 👌
Thank you very much for this video!
Hi Jim: long time follower. Why did you choose the Bianca, over say Dalla Corte Mini, or a Breville DB with needle valve mod, or now the Decent DE1+? Also, you seemed to have by-passed the “Vesuvius rage” ?
I like machines I can control on the fly, so the DE1, where the profile is preprogrammed, is not my style.. Needle valve mods have been done by many people on HB, but I'm not that DIY. And I kind of like that the needle valve that was on the original preproduction E61s has made a comeback.
HBsJim Thanks. I’m still with the Strega, thanks to you, which John Borolla modified. But that Bianca paddle is right up my alley.
Hi which baskets are you using here? I'm interested to use 15g as well but I find the stock ones too big. Also, which grinder are you using to get a fine Turkish grinds? I'm using a Rancilio Rocky and On almost at 0 but I can't seem to get that low flow it seems to flow really fast for me. Thanks
I use standard Faema/Cimbali pattern double baskets, although the ones marked "microfine," which have better machining. They do have a lot of room for 14 to 15 gram doses ; but I genraally find a lot of headspace, by adding some time to the preinfusion, makes the basket more forgiving. I'm in a minority here, most espresso-heads like VST and Strada style basket, that are sized for their intended dose and grind.
@@HBsJim Thanks I'll try to source for those baskets. Also, what grinder do you use to get Turkish grinds?
@@nusstu I use large conicals. In the video, I used a Compak with the 68mm conical set; now I use the more single dosing friendly Niche Zero with the 63mm Kony set.
One issue I've had with this machine is it's first and second pull are completely different, very low flow, high bar, on second pull, even when waiting 5 minutes. Have you run into any similar issues?
Not personally, but some people have. There is a bug on the first year's PID controller in warming up from idle (not from a cold start). It shows ready in about 10 minutes, but will run cool until about 20. Contrawise, the cold start will overheat until about 20 minutes after start up. However, the display blinks until it is ready.
The Bianca is a very fast warm up machine for an E61. But you do need to give it 20 minutes to get to its proper equilibrium.
Jim it seems you use a lot of machines. For someone who just like to pull good shots for lattes would you recommend flow control or will I just waist coffee and get frustrated.
A double boiler is nice forlattes, since the extra steam pressure makes doing them much easier. Unless you have pregnant lady levels of taste acuity, the profiling capability won't really show up in milk drinks.
HBsJim Hala it’s funny you say that. I am laying next to a pregnant lady right now. I think I am going to pull the trigger on a linea mini. The Bianca seems like such a great value, but just had a latte at crema in Nashville and it blew my mind (made on a linea pb2?). Anyway the upgrade from the breville barista will be great. Thanks for the response sir.
Bought the Bianca and atom 75 titanium burrs. Couldn’t bring myself to spend the extra coin. Have a great day
@@4040mwilson I hope you enjoy the machine as much as I do.
Hi do you think you can achieve this kind of shot with the niche and bianca combo
I'm not sure, but I think it would bee very close. The Bunn Turkish burrs are a bit better than the Compak at its very fone settings. But the Niche has a softer taste and may be able to use a slightly coarser grind for the same effect. In any case, one can adjust the preinfusion time to match different grind coarseness.
No any Bianca owners reviewed steamers power all are concerned showing profiler lever system..
The steam power is the same as many other double boiler E61s, so it is not a unique feature of the Bianca. The steam boiler is 1.5 liters, and can be set up to 1.75 bar (135 C) . At this setting, it steams 150 mL of milk in about 10 seconds. Lelit delivers a steam tip with smaller holes for those who prefer slower steam times
@@HBsJim your reviews were fine, steaming length effects generally on steaming boiler from drop down pressure and buildup. My concern was this through viewing most reviews, great machine as well as your reply.
Hello sir. Where did you buy this machine? Send the link online market, please. Thank you
I got mine from 1st Line Coffee. They are the US distributor. Google Lelit Bianca for distributors in your area.
Hi Jim, great video! If you compare the Bianca and the ECM thechnica V pid. Which one should be better if you didn’t have to use the pressure profiling? I am not a big fan of the wood on the Lelit.
I haven't used the Technica, so I can't say for sure. But it is not a dual boiler machine, and HX E61 machines require flushing for temperature control, and are in general a lot more fussy to use.
Do you have a preference between the Lelit Bianca or the Bezzera Strega?
The quality of straight espresso is about the same for both machines.
I prefer the Bianca because it can make coffee at all brew ratios from espresso to drip, and use all grind sizes. Ever wonder what something half way between espresso and brewed coffee tastes like? The Bianca can do it. That said, it's not something I do a lot; but mostly when I'm in a mad scientist mood.
HBsJim thank you so much 😊.
I am new to home made espressos with these types of machines, and it is difficult without personally tying them to narrow the field.
Your videos convey the virtual taste as well as the actual process, and this is quite helpful.
Why isn't the pressure dropping when you are lowering the flow?
When you increased the flow the pressure response looked fairly smooth but when you dropped it, it seemed too slow and not as responsive.
The two are related, but not in lockstep, since the resistance of the puck to flow mostly decreases during the shot (leading to a faster pressure drop than flow drop. What you saw indicates that the puck's resistance was increasing. It's not impossible, but it's rare.
@@HBsJim so, that happens when the coffee is really fine? In this case, this won't be as rare as we thought because the entire purpose of having long preinfusions or brewing at low pressure for a longer time is to be able to extract from a really fine grind.
Btw, I've even noticed this on Whole Latte's videos as well.
@@NANA-gy7yx You're probably right. The solubles from the top of the puck are reabsorbed at the bottom before they flow into the cup. Perhaps with a fine grind, the pucks resistance at the bottom can grow due to this. It would make for a good discussion on home-barista,com (plug, plug)
@@HBsJim Do you suggest a new thread or just reply to the post of this vid?
@@NANA-gy7yx It's a forum, read around a bit and post as you think best
Interesting video
Very interesting, thanks.Can I ask what scales you use for weighing the dose? My scales are far too small to use like this
I have three or four scales that go to 0.1 gram resolution, have a max weight of 1000 grams and are about 2 inches square. They use two or three AA batteries and cost around $10 to $15 dollars on Ebay or Amazon. Typing in "scales 0.1g" in Amazon will get you lots of choices
really interisting that padle profilling. Boring is the price, about 3k dollars ):
Think about $4 -5 for a 6oz cup of coffee every day from your local coffee shop. How much a year vs at home?
if you were to use the decent machine you wouldn't mess up your blew ratio