Technically, once the vehicle is spaded, then it is stock. As in it's matching what it could do in real life. So when you first unlock it, it's nerfed and the process of spading is actually really the process of un-nerfing it.
Exactly, MIG-21s and F-4 Phantoms without heat-seeking missiles??? The missiles were their main weapons, the cannons were secondary! And don't even get me started on engine performance and fuselage structural integrity! In real life a B17 could withstand multiple Flak shots and a B17 once even withstood a BF109 ramming it. In WT, a couple of shots or a single 37mm round makes your tail fall off, WTF?!
@@Fred_the_1996 ever heard of "flak bait"? Look it up, it's about a b-18 that took over 1,000 rounds and flew home, or "ye old pub" a crippled b-17 that was spared by a German because it was so crippled, but it flew back.
The grind is a real source of pain. I come home excited to play some War Thunder after a hard day at school, and then War Thunder makes me wish I was still in school.
Gaijin: We will raise the rewards by 50% Player base: ...there’s a catch. Also Gaijin: We will also raise the cost of limiting factors by 50% Player base: surprised pikachu
Or at least just some fixes, reasonable cost. I don't think it's wrong to have some cost, since people should try to stay alive - otherwise suicide bombing etc. becomes more of a problem (again). But I think it's utter bs that they scale with vehicle performance. Either balance them or leave them be. I always loved the Yaks (15, 17, 23) in ground forces as scouts and to protect against enemy CAS but 30k repair cost? With radar SPAA in the same game? That removes a gigantic part of the income, even for a decent win as a premium player. And it's probably impossible to deal with as a f2p player. Or the fact that premium copies of a tech tree vehicle usually have waaay less repair cost for ... reasons. They already make more money. The repair system is completely messed up. But not a wrong thing to have in general.
@@LipziG3R Yes Repair Cost is a thing that should stay in war thunder but some tanks have such a high repair cost that no one plays them like the T26E-E1 Super Pershing, American T-34, Ferdinand etc. And if i die in those tanks i need like 5 kills to make like 3-4K SL profit without premium im a F2P player and i like the game sorry for bad English English is not my first language ;)
@@epico1598 I think the dynamic repair cost is a good idea but maybe more personalized? surely seeing your average profit for a vehicle and adjusting is barely more difficult than doing it for the entire player base at once
Lost a sim game. 21 air kills, 19 of them "players". 68,000 sl. Lost most of it to repair. There is no reason that should be the case. The grind is complete bullshit.
The hamsters do their best but they keep being overworked and dying. Gaijoob can't look after its players, so why might anyone think they can look after the hamsters?
@@lucasodelta2591 at the end of the day war thunder is a video games, and all video games are business. If it wasn’t for the couple of players that purchase stuff the majority of people would not even have the opportunity to play for free.
not removing them, that'd be too big of a step for the snail + can't remove key death punishment feature, but instead heavily heavily heavily lowering them
Low tier = fun tier Next to no grind, no pain in terms of cost, you just play and enjoy yourself It also isn't bullshit like top tier with it's thermals and ATGM's, even when we had press accounts with everything unlocked and 20m silver lions we played only 1 game of Tier 5 tanks before we hated it, it's not even fun from a gameplay perspective, let alone a economy one!
I was grinding for the Yak-15 and just gave up. 3 kills and 1 death on my Stock Yak-9P and I end up with less silver lions at the end of the round than I started with! The grind is just broken
ALthough I wouls say there is fun to be had even in high br matches, it is much less straight-forward and much much harder than low tier, I can totally see why a lot of people consider the grind not-worthy, AS I DO TOO, Gaijin fix your game ffs
Yea...I got the F35 Sabre during the holidays then got a premium account...This was in December and I’m gonna get the F4C in 100k rp. I started this game in august 2020. It sucks how I need money to progress but if you are gonna spend like I did, get it on discount.
There needs to be a split between pre and post ww2 vehicles in seperate tech trees similar to what they did with the naval ships. That way they can have seperate ques, attract players to their favorite eras and reduce the grind.
@@kaijuslayer3334 Could also fix a lot of decompression issues. They could easily split it into generations instead of tiers, where intergenerational planes (like harriers) round up to a higher gen cuz of missile technology. It could also fix the absurd difference in technology for variants (Mig21F and Mig21bis are only 1.0 BR apart). I heard they plan on adding the f-14 with no decompression. I think gaijin balances jets as if they're prop planes and it just cant work that way.
most content creators are saying the same thing, the grind is killing the game and I refuse the believe that Gaijin hasn't seen these... So at this point it seems like they want the game to die.
@@jacobabra6166 wouldn't call it a knock off being very different and I doubt that is the reason. What I've heard the corporate side of Gaijin tends to over rule the actual developers in the name of profit and this is the result
If they remove the incentive to spend money, it doesnt matter if the playerbase triples overnight. Without people buying shit, Gaijin has no reason to invest in the game and there's either a total content drought or they just shut the game off.
@@nnn4376 while that is correct that they need to have an incentive to spend money but pumping out one overpowered premium after the other is not a sustainable way of doing it, nor is it one that helps with player retention or enjoyment
Air SB/EC player for 7 years (with Premium for all that time) I play all nations (but only aircraft) and have unlocked and spaded everything rank V and lower. Now working my way throught Rank 6. But it has taken me 7 years and thousands of hours and I only just unlocked every aircraft in one nation last weekend. Just 8 more nations to go. Something seriously wrong with the progression system. A good player with a premium account should be able to unlock everything in a year. An FTP player in 18-24 months. It's the reason I haven't gone on to tanks or ships -I don't want another 7 year grind.
This is how I felt but tanks can be really enjoyable, it feels like logging in to war thunder for the first time and it’s nice to learn about new tanks. Plus 1.0 is like the best tank br available. There’s a reason why more people play tanks then planes
Good story. This is the reason I basically stopped grinding at about 7.x for tanks and 8.x for planes. I’ve unlocked most of most trees but I haven’t bothered to actually purchase the vehicles. If I want missile thunder I head to DCS and my KA50, FA18, Mig 21 bis or F16. If I want modern tanks, Arma III. WT does WWII, Korea and mid/early cold war well. Anything more modern just annoys me with the compromises made - too small maps, inconsistent thermals across vehicles, and a lack of data networking that should be in anything past the 80s. My suspension of disbelief just breaks. I do think WT looks magnificent, better than anything else but the gameplay/simulation elements break down with modern styles (IRL) of combat. And it becomes more of a game, less of a mil-sim lite, which is what brought me to WT in the first place. And the higher the BR, the worse the salt and frustration, both mine and everyone else’s.
@@julianmorrisco Agreed. Another youtuber said they play WT from WW2 to Korea and play DCS or Arma for modern weaponry. WT grind for more modern shit is just too much and too glitchy.
This is the most neatly packed Warthunder review I've seen. I love the extensive comentary, and different angles of the problems. Thank you 10/10 review
Stona is one of the worst community managers I've ever seen in any game. Whenever someone brigs up reasonable points in a calm way they get just entirely ignored. But if they get frustrated they get warnings, locks and bans. He's just talking to himself at this point, in most news and threads. It's ridiculous.
@@xuanbuithanh8532 Stona is a community manager in the WarThunder forums who loves to ban people or at least delete their messages in the forums whenever he doesn't like them. Essentially a forum mod with a god complex, who thinks he's important.
I am glad he made this video, as a somewhat average player to warthunder the grind is a bit to harsh upon rank 5. It's also annoying to hear higher tier players telling us lessers to "get good"
Me, intentionally only grinding to 4th rank in any given tree because I couldn't care less about the 5th+ teir vehicles Gaijin "You weren't supposed to do that"
For those wondering what THAT video was about I shall link it here th-cam.com/video/j0pJZGXQmWI/w-d-xo.html . The video's original intention was to show how air sim was a fairly broken and abused game-mode (much to the detriment of those who enjoy it) but if I am being honest I completely missed the point I was trying to make and the video turned out to be more of a giant, elitist rant - and if there is one thing I can't stand in video game culture it is elitism or gatekeeping. So I gave myself a thorough mental arse-kicking for my error and reminded myself of the real problem that has to be addressed: the grind. I also want to thank EVERYONE for their feedback on that video, be that positive or negative. I read through every comment (believe me it took a while) and there truly were some great points, conversations, arguments and counter arguments made, and for the whole it was very civil and well done. After several requests I have actually re-listed that video, but the clickbaity thumbnail is gone and the video description steers people to watch this one instead. Keep being wonderful you lovely people
i feel there should atleast be a hard cap of SL-LOSS at around 0 SL. so even in a really awful battle where you would otherwise loose lets say 6k SL or more instead of loosing SL the game simply rewards you with none.
But then no one would have the need to pay their way out of a Silver Lion debt with GE so I guess we’ll just have to suffer because there’s clearly no solution to this problem (that doesn’t at all hurt Gaijin’s bottom line).
Wow. What an impressive young man you are. I was one of those who questioned the tone and the accusatory style of the video in question, I did not expect the level of maturity shown in this one as a response. If my comment came across as a bit passive-aggressive, that wasn’t my intention but I just re-read it and I can see how it might look that way. Anyway, I am hugely impressed, especially since I hail from the same neighbourhood as you do and more recently I’ve just felt a strong cringe at the online behaviour of some of our country/state-men (they are always men, well, boys). I will follow your online output with interest. It’s not every day I come across a gen-z or millennial showing this level of emotional maturity and insight. Keep it up. I hope I know your parents (I’m probably the same age, roughly) and someday I can tell them what a good job they’ve done.
Haha I appreciate it! Its always good to keep an open mind and know when you're on the wrong footing with things. I turn 30 soon, so hopefully I'll still qualify as "young" for at least another five years 😅
I used to be a really ragey player about 2, 3 years ago. I recently started playing again, and I vowed to completely change my mentality. I was going to stop caring about the game too much. If I lose a game, big deal. If I waste a booster, big deal. get 1 shotted 3 times in a row in a without getting any points, big deal. If I get shot down in the first 2 minutes with a big booster on, big deal. Shit happens. Just have fun. Enjoy the experience. Stop worrying so much. And I gotta say, with this mentality somehow this has been the most profitable month of grinding I've ever had. With no premium account, I managed almost 3 million sl, and about 500k rp across all my trees. In less than a month, I already finished 3 tanks, and 6 planes, 2 of which are jets. And I'm 1 jet away from my first rank VI jet. Just shows how a simple mentality change can have a massive effect. Pretty applicable irl too tbh
You mentioned having unlisted that first video so I'm glad I just happened to catch it in my recommended videos list before then or else who knows if I woulda come across this one. Good stuff, mate. And I know I'd definitely be more inclined to return to the game if they decompressed the BRs and lightened the grind so that it's more in line with what it was several years back which was a far more reasonable time investment, IMO. Also Lord have mercy the US players that equip bombs and rockets and groundpound immediately in air RB...just one facet in the shitshow of US teams seemingly always losing in my experience.
Yeah, you're right. I'm a US player and I kept doing that for a long time. I saw another vid like TeaRex' that "suggested" to stop doing that. Now I start out trying clear out enemy fighters then rtb to re-arm with bombs/rockets.
The part about playing with a squadmate in ground battles is understated. Having someone cover your flank or simply getting twice the firepower can be incredible. Me and my friend have single handedly steamrolled enemy teams, not unusual for us to get 8-10 kills each, but we are usually around 5-7. When I play alone I am way less consistent, getting around 2-5 kills. In air battles its also very practical if you know there is always someone to get the enemy off your tail or to coordinate attacks. Also, if you work close together you are almost always guaranteed to get the "Best Squad" Award, so you can easily get 1 million Lions by completing that wager.
im almost done with my german tank tech tree, without spending any real life cash but.. well... i did get lucky on my boxes and got 1 million sl two times which boosted me a ton
I mean back when i did spend money on this game (about 2017) i got 1 month of premium and got from the P-51 d30 to like the f86 f2. This is of course while also playing different countries including tanks. Since then I've unlocked many high tier vehicles in other trees and and fully unlocked the US air tree. I have probably 1/3-1/2 of the vehicles in this game (not including helis or ships bc who tf cares) in about 2500 hours. I personally don't think the grind is bad and i fucking hate that this is what's getting the most attention rather than the mountains of bugs that ACTUALLY degrade a player's experience in this game. And plus the grind has only gotta easier with each patch coming with a reduction in many vehicle's unlock costs just with more content/choices, please do tell me would it be faster to grind to the (used to be top tier) F-86F-2 then or now?
I finished researching the entire German tech tree for planes without any money spent on the game but I did get 2 free talismans for my 109 k4 and my ta 152 c3 which helped me a bunch
Seriously, I have been playing this game for 6 years now, and let me tell you, the RP problem has only gotten worse. I remember about 4 years ago you could grind out a vic with little to no issue (without premium), now I get about 4-5 kills a match, 3 assists. and maybe a cap and I only get around 2k RP without premium. This is fucking absurd and it's going to kill the game.
And it also got MUCH worse by Gajin reorganizing the tech trees so that you now need to research and purchase almost every vehicle in the the tech tree. You can no longer skip as many useless vehicles as one used to making the grind process SO much longer and so much more annoying.
@@tomwoggle9411 WTF? Sounds horrible. Getting through British tank tree was already a pita, and now you’re saying *every* tank has to be unlocked? Fucking hell, those bastards are getting so damn greedy.
I think one of the worst parts of WT's Grind is when you finally get on the edge of unlocking jets they severely up the cost of buying them. At the beginning of tier 4 buying and assigning a new plane is only around 150,000 but by the end of tier 4 it's 310,000, and if you want to actually but a jet it's like 370,000 sl. I make around a 10,000 increase on my best games. I would have to play around 370 of my best games excluding the insane amount of time to actually unlock it first.
Great video I play the game free I stay at tier 2 and 3 and play the Great Britain RB with the hurricane and spitfire and have a great time using the joystick the repair cost are cheaper and in the real world the pilots of ww2 were assigned one plane and that is what they used during their time as a pilot except for some who lived long enough to get a different plane When I was in the Air Force back in 1967 I was at a usaf base in England for 3 1/2 years all i saw were f100 jets So at 72 I enjoy flying the hurricane and spitfire no need to grind can not live long enough to get all the planes ha The game is great fun without having to spend a ton of cash Thanks again for a great video
Eh, to be honest I would be okay with the grind if the game was fun to play. I have some gripes with the game design itself, but Gaijin also made the game to be as frustrating as possible to force people to fork over their money.
@@GovGenMarcusKerenskyidk man, I run premium and I'm always on the losing team, I'm not good at the game but I usually finish top 5 at least. I'd say I lose 80% of the matches I play because my team NEVER plays the objectives. They spawn, run into the moshpit and die. Edit: I play arcade a lot. So it's probably why
by far you are the best honest content creator....... the others are just show bis...just like ...money..and give me a like!!! and i do this and that thx for your honesty
A years worth of grind non stop 24/7 is the only way I see myself making any progress in this game. Also you hit the mark when you said free to play players stop around 5.3, I just got to 6.0 an I can say without a doubt that low tier is where I’ll be remaining for my time on warthunder. As short as that may be.
i remember tiger 2 h 15 kills no deaths only 60k sl sad part right now is that i got 2 rank 6 jets that have been researched but i cant afford the 2.7 million buy costs 1 year update: i was able to afford the 2 jets after taking advantage of a sale, but i now i have several other rank 6 and 7 jets to get and i make like 40k after a really good round in a ground rb match and my meaning of a good match is used liberally
If you cant get the sl then wait for discounts. Rank 6 jets will cost much more than what the statcard says because of the repair costs you will have to go through to fully spade them, so keep that in mind.
26:30 I usually just return to Airfield and J out at that point. I save on repair costs and the enemy team gets their win. I even let enemy Bombers land and J out after agreeing to it in chat, I believe it is the gentlemen way to end the game.
Great video, appreciate it, you should reach out to spit and ash they are saying the same thing. If enough content creators get together y’all can make a difference!
There is another problem with mid game and this is something me and my friend are constantly being hammered and that's dealing with vehicles that are two tiers higher than I can somewhat forgive an enemy being a tear higher than me but at the same time it's demoralizing when you get one shot by something that's clearly not supposed to be a part of this match
I was a new player and played warthunder for a month or 2, but had to uninstall as I found the interface way too confusing, and with a lack of decent tutorials i felt i was unable to properly play the game, and no amount of 7-year-old yt tutorials could help. Then there was the grind. Even just getting up to tier 4, the grind for a single vehicle wasn't too bad but then they just slap you in the face with a "must own X number of vehicles of previous rank before you can buy this". I wasn't prepared to spend such an absurd amount of time playing the game so i uninstalled. I had this conversation with myself multiple times, reinstalling and uninstalling warthunder several times, but now it's staying off my computer for good. I can't be fucked with this enormous grind.
Even today in 2023 this is still a relevant video. I was so excited to finally unlock the HSTV-L and ADATS. The excitement was quickly replaced with frustrated sadness looking at the RP and SL cost of the modules. Grinding through top tier battles with no thermals and slow engines is pure pain. I have virtually stopped playing top tier because of it, independent of the other top tier issues like CAS/Helicopters/Drones.
This exactly. Surely the devs could cover their costs if the game was 30-50 pounds to buy straight up. Then they could have a decent and achievable grind and everybody's happy
idk what else i had to say other than thank you, this is such a relief & helpful tips / advices for low tier player like me who's obv new to the game. especially because i enjoy AB more than RB (which kinda makes me feel insecure sometimes) and i don't think i'm doing really well rn so i'm grateful for this explanation. mad respect king 👑
Oh god, I remember when the first Leclerc was added. I rushed it, and when I bought it, I just add 50K SL left. And then I had to do the grind with only HEAT-FS. And then I went bankrupt in 20-25 games, almost not enough to get just parts and FPE, and I had to go back to low tier games. Now I need to make sure to keep have at least 2 millions SL in case they suddenly decide to not only add Russian top tier but also a French one from time to time (the only nation that I have top tier). And yeah, boosters are extremely important. Once earned 500K SL in and uptiered game at 7.7 in tank RB without premium. And for tank RB, go to discord, that’s life saving to have teammates. We have a French non official discord with dozen of people online at the same time, so I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of English discord with even more people online. Also, a rule in air RB I would want people to respect, is that if you have a fighter plane, go for other fighters and let others heavier attackers go for bombers. I hate seeing ta152 going for pe8 while Do335 are alone against p51D
I personaly never understood repaircosts, its not like i think "oh i cant afford the repair, lets put money in". Only thing it does is calling it for the day.
I watched the first video multiple times and agreed on nearly everything you said in that video. I currently dont have nearly that much sl to even play some of my favourite planes because if i take them out in air rb ( I am mainly a bomber pilot) and even do well (destroy 2 bases) I lose some sl or earn like 2k so I just play current lineups in multiple countries and DONT repair them and wait to the next day and then again thats my strategy. Love your vids tho.
I wish they had split the modern (1970+) and the classic(1930-1965) tech trees so new players can play the modern vehicles without days of grinding, but still keeping it for the remaining of the trees.
Well, I can’t say I have a problem with silver lions, I have like 2 million of them, but I can say it’s totally relatable when it comes to RP, especially researching modules
Excellent explainations in the How does the grind work? section. If I had never played war thunder before, I feel like I would have understood it perfectly.
(I haven’t watched the Full vid so this might be aswerd soon)What I hate about war thunder is that the game isn’t pay to win... it’s pay to play (hear me out!) when you get into BR 4 up repair cost, ammunition, the vehicle itself, spading. Cost a humongous about of silver lions! Now I am lucky enough that I can afford premium ect. but my friend isn’t, and he hasn’t, for months, had more than 100,000 silver lions for a long period of time and it limits his time to grind the game in a few days of me having premium I have caught up to him for a 3.7 tank (he was 5.7) to his rank and I’m now going past him. Also the repair cost for high-tier jets is wayy to high. You have to get about 2 or more kills if you die to brake even with the silver lions and I love this game but this needs to change and giygin (i dont know how to spell it, don’t judge) proberly will ignore this but I pray to whoever will make this happen make them change it please! someone! (Sorry for the essay)
been playing war thunder for almost 5-6 years from time to time. reason of the time to time is because of the grind system and me being a f2p player. after all those years i was only able to research tier 4 and give up there.
Personally, I like to stay at 2.7 BR Tank Arcade because at worst I get 20min Repair Time and somewhat decent SL payout (around 2k upwards) and I don't need to worry too much about being UpTierd because I can somewhat destroy those 3.7's
Argument for space climbers, bombers and otherwise: I might be losing out on SL and tanking my time, ect, but for all my teammates who died its super helpful. The win gives them those few hundred extra lions and rp for the time they did put in. You might be losing in the long run, but its really helpful for your team (if you are def gonna ein by running that is).
I just bought my first tier 3 medium tank and immediately went back to tier 2 when I realised the repair cost of my new tank exceeded my average SL earnings... Feels great...
Agreed especially on SL. I have been a premium player for years even with premium vehicles and it's been probably like 3-4 years since I have had over 3mil silver lions. I could grind mindlessly with the Japanese Corsair or the Moffett but that gets boring. I'd rather be rewarded for playing whatever I want to play.
As a new WT player I really appreciate this video. I am tempering my expectations going in. I was a unicum in both WoT and just burnt out on WoWS as a superunicum due to all the BS from WG. I am actually fine playing mid-tier and learning the game and getting good at it. It can be rough playing stock vehicles. Really unfortunate that Gaijin seems almost as scummy as Wargaming. I wish there was more competition for these type of games and developers that you don't hate in a game you want to love.
I first played war thunder in mid 2020(I now have about 700 hours in the game), and joined for the modern vehicles. However on my grind to the higher tiers I fell in love with the ww2 aspect of the game. I originally had the mindset of gettin to top tier completely free to play, but lost that at rank IV in tanks and rank III in planes. Instead of giving up because of the grind I play lower tiers and other nations when I need a break from my main. I also recommend that if your not super determined to get to top tier asap that you play both planes and tanks at the same time so that you don’t get discouraged.
I agree with everything stated in this video. I’ve been playing WT since long before ground forces were even added, it’s always been a favorite of mine. That being said, it’s hard for me to play now because of how grindy it has become. New vehicles being added should be exciting and fun, instead I just think to myself “I will literally never be able to play that vehicle”. It’s really sad to see because I want to enjoy my time in the game like the old days, but it’s just too hard now.
Starting to wonder how many more videos like this the community has to produce before Gaijin starts listening and implements changes. I can talk for myself when I say, the grind is the single biggest thing that kept me at distance from this game since I first signed up in 2013. Instead I've invested much more time into WoT, which was still grindy for a beginner but in fact got easier once you put in some time to train up some crews and accumulate a bit of Credits. In a lot of ways I would consider WoTs grind much more well-rounded than most games I've played thus far and they even made it *EASIER* a couple of years ago, when they implemented 'blueprints', that reduce the research cost of any chosen vehicle and can be earned through playing (arguably it's too easy now because WoT has the opposite trend of WT: they push newbies into higher tiers as soon as they join the game). However this distance to WT might've had a plus side too... I didn't quit! I keep coming back in for regular visits with lots of playtime before it gets boring again and the realization starts kicking back in that I'll never be able to fly some of my favourite planes or drive my favourite tanks just because I'm a regular who's also got a life besides WT. From 2013 until now, the 17th March 2021, my highest ranked vehicles are the Jpanther, Kingtiger (P), Bf-109 K-4, and FW-190 D-9... (I have bought the Henschel Kingtiger, the Panther II, the 105mm Tiger, the Ta-152 H-1 and the Alouette heelo but can't yet afford to put them into lineups/ crew training/ buy modules/ afford repair costs [K-4 has almost 20k at this point in time]). I have also started to move up the American tech tree until the 105mm Sherman & the F6F-5 and Russian ground forces up to the T-34-57, ZiS-5 KV, and ASU-57... I'm almost at the 8 year mark for this game, yet it feels like I've not accomplished anything in comparison to other games that I've played for less than 2 years. At last, this game really stands in a unique position in the gaming market and it has a huge potential. It just seems that Gaijin trusts another path of long time investment than the community and it's a real shame they don't seem to open up to the idea of attracting old aswell as new players through the phun and stimulative gameplay instead of *InSeRt ShInY nEw ToYs HeRe* and *DrOwN tHe CrItIcIsM iN cOnTeNt* way they chose. Closing point: I love this game and have done so for a long time, but I still don't see myself comitting to the amount of absurdities this game throws at one in constant fashion for a prolonged time. cleep kalm and suffer on o7 TheSteelDrummer
That's why alot of players only bring 1 tank or plane into the game to expensive to run other tanks in a match. The other problem that pushes new players away is cold war vs WW2 they really need a barrier between the 2
best game recently had around 80k sl but only 9k research points it takes forever finally tier V germany but thats only tanks havent touched planes yet
Man the tip when it comes to ground RB was on point. Staying mobile and doing stuff is hugely important. I remember when I struggled with SL at around 7.0 BR. So naturally my instinct made me "play safer" so I don't lose my tank early. But because of how rewards are calculated, having 5 kills in a quick flash with 15mins of afk camping is less rewarding then charging in, capping half a point, pinging someone with your MG, and dying in 3 shots. And one of my friends quit the game because he couldn't make SL. He would also get scared of losing his tank, camped at the back, and maybe got a few kills occasionally. But if he died he wouldn't spawn more tanks if we were losing. Claiming that it was just going to be waste since he might get spawn sniped.
When my main account got banned a while back ago, i took a break before returning around the beginning of 2020. I started a fresh account and with a lot of free time and played war thunder continuously for over 200 days, (i know this because of the login rewards). Anyway, ive only spent 10 dollars on the account (mostly going to cosmetics) and ive just scratched the surface of V rank in the Russian tech tree (ground forces). And this is coming from a experienced player who has been playing war thunder since 2016 off and on with around 500+ hours under my belt. So i think its safe to say that yes, the grind is pretty bad and could be a lot better. Time and time again, my friends have been turned off by war thunder whenever i try to get them to play. Its not even because they dont like the game, they all think its a cool concept and is a breeze of fresh air compared to world of tanks, its just the pay to win mechanics war thunder tries to push. Leopards, BR compression, repair costs, the increasing need for Golden Eagles; it all just makes the game feel like true shit and has frustrated me more than ever. I know you've probably heard this many times before, but it really truly is a love hate relationship. War thunder knows there's not a single game like it, so they exploit it to the extreme. So, the lesson here? Just dont spend money. The less war thunder earns, the more they'll rule out pay to win mechanics, and actually start fixing their game. Please make sure to advise any of your friends trying out the game, or new players in general just to not spend money. Its a waste of time, and truly isn't worth it. Maybe after war thunder fixes their game ill be willing to spare a few extra dollars.
The grind a year later stays the same. Im a free to play player that is currently STILL grinding out the American tech tree. The thing is, i have the money and would be willing to give Gaijin money, but the main thing preventing me from that is the current state of the game. If Gaijin gets their shit together, i would actually pay for some stuff. This sounds tough, but remember, spite is historically one of the most powerful motivations.
Is there a info source where I can see exactly how many tickets each objective in air-sim is worth? Regardless of the rewards I’m competitive so I want to win, but being new to the gamemode I’m not really sure what I should be putting a priority on. If it makes a difference, I average an air kill about every 4-5 minutes
I've always found that tier 3 is the sweet spot for fun, at least for flying. But sometimes just tier 1 biplanes can be such blast as long as the map is not too big.
Indeed, I gave up when I reached T5. Even if you do ridiculously good but lost a couple vehicles, you’ll just be barely in the positive even with premium. And if you lose outright… just cry in the corner or open your wallet. I go back from time to time to WT using my T3/4 war machines. Still fun but Gaijin won’t taste a cent from me again.
@Caelesti Gladii I'm trying to grind to t4 for the major allies and axis trees, I have some t5 mostly in Brit and Russia, but no high tier jets, too painful to repair. I shut off automatic repair and wait days to fly t5 stuff to repair for free. The only way I can slowly earn silver lions.
I totally agree with the grind because I started this game like 1 month ago and I'm on tier 3 in America planes and its soo hard to get someone down because they shot you twice and you're down
I'm going to uninstall this game when I get home today. Thank you for the clarity. I've never paid a cent for this game in ~100hrs of playing over years and I never will.
I remember I first started playing at the beginning of the Pandemic for about a month, started with a few days of premium and a US tier 1 premium from a TH-cam promotion. In that month, I jumped around a bit trying various modes and nations. Settled on going with US and made it to the M22. Played for another few weeks this year in late may and made it to the M3 Lee. This grind is ridiculous.
It was the real airs that through me off the game. My brother plays one handed due to an accident when he was young and for him ,someone who just wants to play for fun , he is at a massive disadvantage due to this system
@@SuperDeinVadda I'm using the Type 90 stock. Gaijjn nerfed NATO HEATFS and now the entire Russian top tier is 10.3 so you only face enemies with ERA. It's almost physically impossible to generate RP and the modules are extremely expensive. By far one of the worse gaming experiences I had. I took a 1 year break from the game, after this joke I might take another.
@@SuperDeinVadda that happens for what 5 games? It's apart of seeing how it makes your tank better equipped w parts...you dont, or probably shouldn't play 59 battles w out unlocking parts mod....parts mod should be first to unlock imo
@@starfighter1043 yeah no shit. Still if your tank get its in the barrel you can just j out and go again. Where is the fun in that? Especially high tier tanks need alot of exp. To unlock anything. I don't mind the grind fir new vehicles. But grinding modules is just not fun at all.
i once got a 900% RP booster from the war bond shop (didn't even know they existed), got into a battle that went really well and came out with 80k RP without premium
War Thunder's grind is terribly long, designed to be difficult, and predatory at heart. Not sure if I'll get any engagement, but if anyone is interested, I am more than happy to explain Gaijin's predatory game design.
And here I thought the grind was too much when I started playing in 2015. I quit in late 2017 after 500~ hours at tier IV in the US, USSR, and German aircraft tech trees. I never even played tanks.
I am a casual player who's been playing War Thunder for near enough 3 years. I chose not to focus on a single nation because if I'm playing the same thing over and over again I get bored; I like to switch it up a bit. I have the US and Germany trees up to rank 5 and tbh I cannot stand ground RB anymore, and have instead pretty much resorted to playing assault ground arcade, getting the 300% booster (If my group doesn't suck and we win; that's a coin toss in itself) and then going to arcade where I can at least get some kills before I either get flanked or bombed. While I have spent money on premiums before, most notably on the premium Jumbo (with a discount), I am not going to spend more money on a game that effectively punishes you for playing it. IF the game was fun (as it was for me before, hence why I bought those premiums), I would be glad to put some money into it, but I am not going to waste money on this game when it is clear the people behind it are clearly using me and all players as cash cows. The game got really bad for me this year, it just wasn't as fun as it had been the previous year, and I couldn't figure out why. I originally blamed it on myself, thinking I had gotten lazy, but the truth soon dawned on me that the reason why this was happening was the introduction of the battle pass. The BP is pretty much a year-round event, and that means that people are ALWAYS on event mode; they will throw team playing out the window and resort to ugly tactics because they are desperate to complete their dailies.
![WarThunder- Ultimate ground forces beginner guide [2018/2019]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FrvTloSWZ6Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![WarThunder- Ultimate ground forces beginner guide [2018/2019]](/img/tr.png)
Technically, once the vehicle is spaded, then it is stock. As in it's matching what it could do in real life. So when you first unlock it, it's nerfed and the process of spading is actually really the process of un-nerfing it.
*The Prophecy Is True*
Exactly, MIG-21s and F-4 Phantoms without heat-seeking missiles??? The missiles were their main weapons, the cannons were secondary! And don't even get me started on engine performance and fuselage structural integrity! In real life a B17 could withstand multiple Flak shots and a B17 once even withstood a BF109 ramming it. In WT, a couple of shots or a single 37mm round makes your tail fall off, WTF?!
@@Fred_the_1996 ever heard of "flak bait"? Look it up, it's about a b-18 that took over 1,000 rounds and flew home, or "ye old pub" a crippled b-17 that was spared by a German because it was so crippled, but it flew back.
@@B-enjoyer yep, and the All American, which was rammed by a BF109, and became the Mostly American and a Tiny Bit German
So true 😂
The grind is a real source of pain. I come home excited to play some War Thunder after a hard day at school, and then War Thunder makes me wish I was still in school.
lmaooo xD
Oh my god same, its a 2nd job
Pfp matches the comment
Aliens from mars have school too?
I feel u brooo
Gaijin: We will raise the rewards by 50%
Player base: ...there’s a catch.
Also Gaijin: We will also raise the cost of limiting factors by 50%
Player base: surprised pikachu
Nah if they reduce something they won't raise the other factor equally...they'll raise it more
*gayjined*
That is just devaluing SL in order to make people's existing currency more worthless...
@@Ypog_UA devaluing sl bc there's a fixed ge price for sl (even though it always was the worst way to spend ge)
that is basically inflating the economy, and then saying "HEY EVERYONE IS A MILLIONAIRE NOW, WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING!"
I would grind like crazy if there were no repair costs
Edit: 1k+ likes HOLY
Or at least just some fixes, reasonable cost. I don't think it's wrong to have some cost, since people should try to stay alive - otherwise suicide bombing etc. becomes more of a problem (again).
But I think it's utter bs that they scale with vehicle performance. Either balance them or leave them be.
I always loved the Yaks (15, 17, 23) in ground forces as scouts and to protect against enemy CAS but 30k repair cost? With radar SPAA in the same game? That removes a gigantic part of the income, even for a decent win as a premium player. And it's probably impossible to deal with as a f2p player.
Or the fact that premium copies of a tech tree vehicle usually have waaay less repair cost for ... reasons. They already make more money.
The repair system is completely messed up. But not a wrong thing to have in general.
@@LipziG3R Yes Repair Cost is a thing that should stay in war thunder but some tanks have such a high repair cost that no one plays them like the T26E-E1 Super Pershing, American T-34, Ferdinand etc. And if i die in those tanks i need like 5 kills to make like 3-4K SL profit without premium im a F2P player and i like the game sorry for bad English English is not my first language ;)
Same
@@LipziG3R Either that or nerf rewards on a crash, so people are more careful with how they fly their plane.
@@epico1598 I think the dynamic repair cost is a good idea but maybe more personalized? surely seeing your average profit for a vehicle and adjusting is barely more difficult than doing it for the entire player base at once
Lost a sim game. 21 air kills, 19 of them "players". 68,000 sl. Lost most of it to repair. There is no reason that should be the case. The grind is complete bullshit.
same i got the same problem, i do like 25k of bobming with b29, but every sl ends in repair or loss
Are you the Ho-229 player who kepy slapping me around
@@activeregent8889 nah lol it was a 3.7-4.7
What tier are you playing?
@@ghosty5875 that’s because you’re using a B-29... look at the repair cost of it. what do you expect
"All of the game is running online 24/7"
Gaijin server hamster: ...and I took that personally
The hamsters do their best but they keep being overworked and dying. Gaijoob can't look after its players, so why might anyone think they can look after the hamsters?
the files cat threatened to eat him if he didnt take brakes from time to time
Grinding "tips" by Gaijin:
1. Give
2. Us
3. Your
4. Wallet
Grinding tip from frustrated players:
1. Just uninstall.
Its a free to play game, how do you expect them to make money?
@@GTBANNA premium vheicles, cosmetics, anything except corw functions
@@lucasodelta2591 at the end of the day war thunder is a video games, and all video games are business. If it wasn’t for the couple of players that purchase stuff the majority of people would not even have the opportunity to play for free.
@@GTBANNA most players have maybe 10% of all vehicles
That's why the game just sucks
But what do you expect from Russians who are hungry for money
I think removing repair costs could massively improve the economy and the player enjoyment
not removing them, that'd be too big of a step for the snail + can't remove key death punishment feature, but instead heavily heavily heavily lowering them
Agreed
@@rowbotia at the very least dying shouldn't feel like I'm filing for bankruptcy
@@casualspawnpeeking3680 I agree
Lowering it for sure, hate some games where I come out with only a 1k positive
Low tier = fun tier
Next to no grind, no pain in terms of cost, you just play and enjoy yourself
It also isn't bullshit like top tier with it's thermals and ATGM's, even when we had press accounts with everything unlocked and 20m silver lions we played only 1 game of Tier 5 tanks before we hated it, it's not even fun from a gameplay perspective, let alone a economy one!
A wild Nordern has appeared! Yeah I tend to avoid all tier 5 stuff outside air Sim tbh. Too many bugs and balancing issues, especially in RB!
naaa i just did Brits 3.3 got up to 4.3.... did USA 4.7 got up to 5.7 ...its like every game just gets uptier
I was grinding for the Yak-15 and just gave up. 3 kills and 1 death on my Stock Yak-9P and I end up with less silver lions at the end of the round than I started with! The grind is just broken
ALthough I wouls say there is fun to be had even in high br matches, it is much less straight-forward and much much harder than low tier, I can totally see why a lot of people consider the grind not-worthy, AS I DO TOO, Gaijin fix your game ffs
I'm stuck at teir three, low tiers arnt safe for those who can't get 2-3 kills and a zone cap per match
This game makes ea look like that they care about the players.
At least it doesnt make you pay $50 for the game itself first
@@leojennings2438 well not having to pay still doesn’t make it better
@@Chlosephene well, better but not best. Not even remotely xD
this makes me wonder wich is greedier
EA or gaijin
@@leojennings2438 But they do take out 60$ for an Aircraft/Tank.
I have to say, premium account REALLY helps a lot which is a bit sad since I try to play as free to play as possible
I can't try, I can't use muny :(
@@nunomiguel555 same :/
Even just premium vehicles
Yea...I got the F35 Sabre during the holidays then got a premium account...This was in December and I’m gonna get the F4C in 100k rp. I started this game in august 2020. It sucks how I need money to progress but if you are gonna spend like I did, get it on discount.
@@angelafl7738 same times :(
Gaijin: Adds 1 shell to ammo capacity
Also Gaijin: "Yep. +2.0 BR"
There needs to be a split between pre and post ww2 vehicles in seperate tech trees similar to what they did with the naval ships. That way they can have seperate ques, attract players to their favorite eras and reduce the grind.
That is... honestly a good idea. That was a great change for naval battles. I’d love to see a separation like that for the post WW2 vehicles.
@@kaijuslayer3334 Could also fix a lot of decompression issues. They could easily split it into generations instead of tiers, where intergenerational planes (like harriers) round up to a higher gen cuz of missile technology. It could also fix the absurd difference in technology for variants (Mig21F and Mig21bis are only 1.0 BR apart). I heard they plan on adding the f-14 with no decompression. I think gaijin balances jets as if they're prop planes and it just cant work that way.
What do you know. World of tanks did this. At least for Xbox.
Ive been saying this for months
Trees for strikers, bombers, fighters
great idea
most content creators are saying the same thing, the grind is killing the game and I refuse the believe that Gaijin hasn't seen these... So at this point it seems like they want the game to die.
They probably want everyone to play their BF5 knock-off Enlisted
@@jacobabra6166 wouldn't call it a knock off being very different and I doubt that is the reason. What I've heard the corporate side of Gaijin tends to over rule the actual developers in the name of profit and this is the result
Russians, am I right?
*Play laugh track*
If they remove the incentive to spend money, it doesnt matter if the playerbase triples overnight. Without people buying shit, Gaijin has no reason to invest in the game and there's either a total content drought or they just shut the game off.
@@nnn4376 while that is correct that they need to have an incentive to spend money but pumping out one overpowered premium after the other is not a sustainable way of doing it, nor is it one that helps with player retention or enjoyment
Air SB/EC player for 7 years (with Premium for all that time) I play all nations (but only aircraft) and have unlocked and spaded everything rank V and lower. Now working my way throught Rank 6.
But it has taken me 7 years and thousands of hours and I only just unlocked every aircraft in one nation last weekend. Just 8 more nations to go. Something seriously wrong with the progression system. A good player with a premium account should be able to unlock everything in a year. An FTP player in 18-24 months. It's the reason I haven't gone on to tanks or ships -I don't want another 7 year grind.
This is how I felt but tanks can be really enjoyable, it feels like logging in to war thunder for the first time and it’s nice to learn about new tanks. Plus 1.0 is like the best tank br available. There’s a reason why more people play tanks then planes
Their system clearly works well if it made you pay for premium account for 7 years! ;)
you paid premium for 7 years, gaijin got exactly what they wanted
Good story. This is the reason I basically stopped grinding at about 7.x for tanks and 8.x for planes. I’ve unlocked most of most trees but I haven’t bothered to actually purchase the vehicles. If I want missile thunder I head to DCS and my KA50, FA18, Mig 21 bis or F16. If I want modern tanks, Arma III. WT does WWII, Korea and mid/early cold war well. Anything more modern just annoys me with the compromises made - too small maps, inconsistent thermals across vehicles, and a lack of data networking that should be in anything past the 80s. My suspension of disbelief just breaks. I do think WT looks magnificent, better than anything else but the gameplay/simulation elements break down with modern styles (IRL) of combat. And it becomes more of a game, less of a mil-sim lite, which is what brought me to WT in the first place. And the higher the BR, the worse the salt and frustration, both mine and everyone else’s.
@@julianmorrisco Agreed. Another youtuber said they play WT from WW2 to Korea and play DCS or Arma for modern weaponry. WT grind for more modern shit is just too much and too glitchy.
This is the most neatly packed Warthunder review I've seen.
I love the extensive comentary, and different angles of the problems.
Thank you 10/10 review
the saddest part is that Gaijin doesnt care and Stona and Catweazle will lock your thread and give your account warning points for challenging them.
Why tf do we just accept this shit and keep playing the game
@@angeloc1340 no real competition
Stona is one of the worst community managers I've ever seen in any game. Whenever someone brigs up reasonable points in a calm way they get just entirely ignored. But if they get frustrated they get warnings, locks and bans. He's just talking to himself at this point, in most news and threads. It's ridiculous.
@@LipziG3R Can you please tell me who is Stona?
@@xuanbuithanh8532 Stona is a community manager in the WarThunder forums who loves to ban people or at least delete their messages in the forums whenever he doesn't like them. Essentially a forum mod with a god complex, who thinks he's important.
I am glad he made this video, as a somewhat average player to warthunder the grind is a bit to harsh upon rank 5. It's also annoying to hear higher tier players telling us lessers to "get good"
The game having too much grinding just made me stop playing. I occasionally do testflights with premium planes if I get bored.
Did you know you can do testflight missions? I just learned this today after about 7+ years of play :/
@@abroamg only with planes you own tho
Exactly what I’ve began doing
Joke's on Gaijin I'm almost exclusively interested in playing things that existed before 1945
Me, intentionally only grinding to 4th rank in any given tree because I couldn't care less about the 5th+ teir vehicles
Gaijin "You weren't supposed to do that"
@@PerishingPurplePulsar I’m going to be grinding jets. Probably my favourite ranks will be 4/5, but the 6/7 vehicles will be fun once in a while.
That is very true and exactly what I am doing. Get all WW2 vehicles, it's the only thing I am interested in playing.
Yeah but gaijin keep making the ww2 vehicles fight postwar tanks with lol pen rounds and stabilisers.
@@markjackson7650 That's only a problem with late war heavies it seems. Well excluding the R3 and EBR
For those wondering what THAT video was about I shall link it here th-cam.com/video/j0pJZGXQmWI/w-d-xo.html . The video's original intention was to show how air sim was a fairly broken and abused game-mode (much to the detriment of those who enjoy it) but if I am being honest I completely missed the point I was trying to make and the video turned out to be more of a giant, elitist rant - and if there is one thing I can't stand in video game culture it is elitism or gatekeeping. So I gave myself a thorough mental arse-kicking for my error and reminded myself of the real problem that has to be addressed: the grind.
I also want to thank EVERYONE for their feedback on that video, be that positive or negative. I read through every comment (believe me it took a while) and there truly were some great points, conversations, arguments and counter arguments made, and for the whole it was very civil and well done. After several requests I have actually re-listed that video, but the clickbaity thumbnail is gone and the video description steers people to watch this one instead. Keep being wonderful you lovely people
fuck Ground RB I guess.
Years of asking for a change to the grind system nothing happens, 1 video about how to actually earn sl and rp in the game the get rid of it!
i feel there should atleast be a hard cap of SL-LOSS at around 0 SL.
so even in a really awful battle where you would otherwise loose lets say 6k SL or more instead of loosing SL the game simply rewards you with none.
But then no one would have the need to pay their way out of a Silver Lion debt with GE so I guess we’ll just have to suffer because there’s clearly no solution to this problem (that doesn’t at all hurt Gaijin’s bottom line).
Wow. What an impressive young man you are. I was one of those who questioned the tone and the accusatory style of the video in question, I did not expect the level of maturity shown in this one as a response. If my comment came across as a bit passive-aggressive, that wasn’t my intention but I just re-read it and I can see how it might look that way. Anyway, I am hugely impressed, especially since I hail from the same neighbourhood as you do and more recently I’ve just felt a strong cringe at the online behaviour of some of our country/state-men (they are always men, well, boys). I will follow your online output with interest. It’s not every day I come across a gen-z or millennial showing this level of emotional maturity and insight. Keep it up. I hope I know your parents (I’m probably the same age, roughly) and someday I can tell them what a good job they’ve done.
Haha I appreciate it! Its always good to keep an open mind and know when you're on the wrong footing with things.
I turn 30 soon, so hopefully I'll still qualify as "young" for at least another five years 😅
I used to be a really ragey player about 2, 3 years ago. I recently started playing again, and I vowed to completely change my mentality. I was going to stop caring about the game too much. If I lose a game, big deal. If I waste a booster, big deal. get 1 shotted 3 times in a row in a without getting any points, big deal. If I get shot down in the first 2 minutes with a big booster on, big deal.
Shit happens. Just have fun. Enjoy the experience. Stop worrying so much.
And I gotta say, with this mentality somehow this has been the most profitable month of grinding I've ever had. With no premium account, I managed almost 3 million sl, and about 500k rp across all my trees. In less than a month, I already finished 3 tanks, and 6 planes, 2 of which are jets. And I'm 1 jet away from my first rank VI jet. Just shows how a simple mentality change can have a massive effect. Pretty applicable irl too tbh
I can't stop worrying about it, because of repair costs, but I will have to try this
Any updates
You mentioned having unlisted that first video so I'm glad I just happened to catch it in my recommended videos list before then or else who knows if I woulda come across this one. Good stuff, mate.
And I know I'd definitely be more inclined to return to the game if they decompressed the BRs and lightened the grind so that it's more in line with what it was several years back which was a far more reasonable time investment, IMO. Also Lord have mercy the US players that equip bombs and rockets and groundpound immediately in air RB...just one facet in the shitshow of US teams seemingly always losing in my experience.
I ended up re-listing it, just with less clickbaity thumbnail
Yeah, you're right. I'm a US player and I kept doing that for a long time. I saw another vid like TeaRex' that "suggested" to stop doing that. Now I start out trying clear out enemy fighters then rtb to re-arm with bombs/rockets.
@@RX552VBK How does that work? do you take the bombs/rockets and dump then taking off, then rearm later?
@@alexanderboccaccio4261 I believe if u go and land at your airfield and get repaired you can then j out and change your armment
The part about playing with a squadmate in ground battles is understated. Having someone cover your flank or simply getting twice the firepower can be incredible.
Me and my friend have single handedly steamrolled enemy teams, not unusual for us to get 8-10 kills each, but we are usually around 5-7.
When I play alone I am way less consistent, getting around 2-5 kills.
In air battles its also very practical if you know there is always someone to get the enemy off your tail or to coordinate attacks.
Also, if you work close together you are almost always guaranteed to get the "Best Squad" Award, so you can easily get 1 million Lions by completing that wager.
2-5? how does that work? the average should be 1, right?
Imagine the attention people will get if they said: "I completed the entire American tech tree without spending any money or free GE apps"
im almost done with my german tank tech tree, without spending any real life cash
but.. well... i did get lucky on my boxes and got 1 million sl two times
which boosted me a ton
@@SymmbolZS ;-;
@@SymmbolZS I literaly allmosz had the 1 000 000 sl but it baited me and then it came back on 10 000 sl
I mean back when i did spend money on this game (about 2017) i got 1 month of premium and got from the P-51 d30 to like the f86 f2. This is of course while also playing different countries including tanks. Since then I've unlocked many high tier vehicles in other trees and and fully unlocked the US air tree. I have probably 1/3-1/2 of the vehicles in this game (not including helis or ships bc who tf cares) in about 2500 hours. I personally don't think the grind is bad and i fucking hate that this is what's getting the most attention rather than the mountains of bugs that ACTUALLY degrade a player's experience in this game. And plus the grind has only gotta easier with each patch coming with a reduction in many vehicle's unlock costs just with more content/choices, please do tell me would it be faster to grind to the (used to be top tier) F-86F-2 then or now?
I finished researching the entire German tech tree for planes without any money spent on the game but I did get 2 free talismans for my 109 k4 and my ta 152 c3 which helped me a bunch
Seriously, I have been playing this game for 6 years now, and let me tell you, the RP problem has only gotten worse. I remember about 4 years ago you could grind out a vic with little to no issue (without premium), now I get about 4-5 kills a match, 3 assists. and maybe a cap and I only get around 2k RP without premium. This is fucking absurd and it's going to kill the game.
And it also got MUCH worse by Gajin reorganizing the tech trees so that you now need to research and purchase almost every vehicle in the the tech tree. You can no longer skip as many useless vehicles as one used to making the grind process SO much longer and so much more annoying.
@@tomwoggle9411 WTF? Sounds horrible. Getting through British tank tree was already a pita, and now you’re saying *every* tank has to be unlocked? Fucking hell, those bastards are getting so damn greedy.
Excellent video, love the tips you gave for each game mode. Really enjoy these long winded videos, keep up the great work.
I think one of the worst parts of WT's Grind is when you finally get on the edge of unlocking jets they severely up the cost of buying them. At the beginning of tier 4 buying and assigning a new plane is only around 150,000 but by the end of tier 4 it's 310,000, and if you want to actually but a jet it's like 370,000 sl. I make around a 10,000 increase on my best games. I would have to play around 370 of my best games excluding the insane amount of time to actually unlock it first.
I tried to play arcade and kept crashing into the ground because of server issues.
Classic Australia moment
Finally a speaking man from the heart of most player (especially old player)...
I hope the devs watch this and really listening to this
Great video I play the game free
I stay at tier 2 and 3 and play the Great Britain RB with the hurricane and spitfire and have a great time using the joystick the repair cost are cheaper and in the real world the pilots of ww2 were assigned one plane and that is what they used during their time as a pilot except for some who lived long enough to get a different plane
When I was in the Air Force back in 1967 I was at a usaf base in England for 3 1/2 years all i saw were f100 jets
So at 72 I enjoy flying the hurricane and spitfire no need to grind can not live long enough to get all the planes ha
The game is great fun without having to spend a ton of cash
Thanks again for a great video
So what plane did you operate irl?
Sir I salute u for your duty to your country
I love tier three battle and the British air tree is my favourite.
Eh, to be honest I would be okay with the grind if the game was fun to play. I have some gripes with the game design itself, but Gaijin also made the game to be as frustrating as possible to force people to fork over their money.
I am convinced that the match maker is rigged. Premium players get put on teams with high skill players, and pits them against potato F2P teams.
@@GovGenMarcusKerenskyidk man, I run premium and I'm always on the losing team, I'm not good at the game but I usually finish top 5 at least. I'd say I lose 80% of the matches I play because my team NEVER plays the objectives. They spawn, run into the moshpit and die.
Edit: I play arcade a lot. So it's probably why
by far you are the best honest content creator....... the others are just show bis...just like ...money..and give me a like!!! and i do this and that thx for your honesty
A years worth of grind non stop 24/7 is the only way I see myself making any progress in this game.
Also you hit the mark when you said free to play players stop around 5.3, I just got to 6.0 an I can say without a doubt that low tier is where I’ll be remaining for my time on warthunder. As short as that may be.
Lmao I'm at 7.7 and I want to die
i remember tiger 2 h 15 kills no deaths only 60k sl
sad part right now is that i got 2 rank 6 jets that have been researched but i cant afford the 2.7 million buy costs
1 year update:
i was able to afford the 2 jets after taking advantage of a sale, but i now i have several other rank 6 and 7 jets to get and i make like 40k after a really good round in a ground rb match
and my meaning of a good match is used liberally
If you cant get the sl then wait for discounts. Rank 6 jets will cost much more than what the statcard says because of the repair costs you will have to go through to fully spade them, so keep that in mind.
@@alexs8395 yeah i know going to take a while though
but by then i would have already bought them at full price
Some really good stuff here. Thanks mate!
26:30 I usually just return to Airfield and J out at that point. I save on repair costs and the enemy team gets their win. I even let enemy Bombers land and J out after agreeing to it in chat, I believe it is the gentlemen way to end the game.
I managed to work out a truce once, I got to kill ground forces and the bomber got to bomb all the bases 😊 that was wholesome fun
Wait, you guys can chat?
@@thiccboi156 we could til russia did le epic troll to ukraine
I think the removal of repair cost would already help a ton
Great video, appreciate it, you should reach out to spit and ash they are saying the same thing. If enough content creators get together y’all can make a difference!
This helps a lot, ive been playing warthunder since 2016, its now 2021 and im only in rank 5, and thats only in the british techtree
about the air arcade domination game mode with the ground targets, 90% of the time a p-47 just rushes and bombes em all with like 2 bombs.
May I recommend when your flying the Do 335 you key bind the 103 30mm. That way you can save the 20mm for aircraft and SPAA targets.
There is another problem with mid game and this is something me and my friend are constantly being hammered and that's dealing with vehicles that are two tiers higher than I can somewhat forgive an enemy being a tear higher than me but at the same time it's demoralizing when you get one shot by something that's clearly not supposed to be a part of this match
Yeah, I'm getting tired of seeing "Rank Doesn't Matter" awards and "Loss" at the end game screen.
My whole friend list won't play this with me cause of the crazy absolutely crazy economy system. I love simulation mode.
I was a new player and played warthunder for a month or 2, but had to uninstall as I found the interface way too confusing, and with a lack of decent tutorials i felt i was unable to properly play the game, and no amount of 7-year-old yt tutorials could help. Then there was the grind. Even just getting up to tier 4, the grind for a single vehicle wasn't too bad but then they just slap you in the face with a "must own X number of vehicles of previous rank before you can buy this". I wasn't prepared to spend such an absurd amount of time playing the game so i uninstalled. I had this conversation with myself multiple times, reinstalling and uninstalling warthunder several times, but now it's staying off my computer for good. I can't be fucked with this enormous grind.
Even today in 2023 this is still a relevant video. I was so excited to finally unlock the HSTV-L and ADATS. The excitement was quickly replaced with frustrated sadness looking at the RP and SL cost of the modules. Grinding through top tier battles with no thermals and slow engines is pure pain. I have virtually stopped playing top tier because of it, independent of the other top tier issues like CAS/Helicopters/Drones.
Great Video!
To be honest i would've rather had the game be like 20-30 Dollars and a good econ and acceptable grind times , than this...
This exactly.
Surely the devs could cover their costs if the game was 30-50 pounds to buy straight up.
Then they could have a decent and achievable grind and everybody's happy
idk what else i had to say other than thank you, this is such a relief & helpful tips / advices for low tier player like me who's obv new to the game. especially because i enjoy AB more than RB (which kinda makes me feel insecure sometimes) and i don't think i'm doing really well rn so i'm grateful for this explanation. mad respect king 👑
Oh god, I remember when the first Leclerc was added. I rushed it, and when I bought it, I just add 50K SL left. And then I had to do the grind with only HEAT-FS. And then I went bankrupt in 20-25 games, almost not enough to get just parts and FPE, and I had to go back to low tier games.
Now I need to make sure to keep have at least 2 millions SL in case they suddenly decide to not only add Russian top tier but also a French one from time to time (the only nation that I have top tier).
And yeah, boosters are extremely important. Once earned 500K SL in and uptiered game at 7.7 in tank RB without premium.
And for tank RB, go to discord, that’s life saving to have teammates. We have a French non official discord with dozen of people online at the same time, so I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of English discord with even more people online.
Also, a rule in air RB I would want people to respect, is that if you have a fighter plane, go for other fighters and let others heavier attackers go for bombers. I hate seeing ta152 going for pe8 while Do335 are alone against p51D
Do335 vs P-51s are fun, big fast fucks vs the slower 51s
I personaly never understood repaircosts, its not like i think "oh i cant afford the repair, lets put money in". Only thing it does is calling it for the day.
27:14 he kills me in the bf110
lol
@@reyzharpratamaheriansyah1706 yes
What a video to pull up to see whether I wanted to play this. Thank you for not wasting my time lmao
I watched the first video multiple times and agreed on nearly everything you said in that video. I currently dont have nearly that much sl to even play some of my favourite planes because if i take them out in air rb ( I am mainly a bomber pilot) and even do well (destroy 2 bases) I lose some sl or earn like 2k so I just play current lineups in multiple countries and DONT repair them and wait to the next day and then again thats my strategy. Love your vids tho.
I wish they had split the modern (1970+) and the classic(1930-1965) tech trees so new players can play the modern vehicles without days of grinding, but still keeping it for the remaining of the trees.
Well, I can’t say I have a problem with silver lions, I have like 2 million of them, but I can say it’s totally relatable when it comes to RP, especially researching modules
Well. I could spend 2 millions right now to buy the unlocked stuff I have. And then about 10 more.
2 millions won't do much in high tier.
Excellent explainations in the How does the grind work? section. If I had never played war thunder before, I feel like I would have understood it perfectly.
(I haven’t watched the Full vid so this might be aswerd soon)What I hate about war thunder is that the game isn’t pay to win... it’s pay to play (hear me out!) when you get into BR 4 up repair cost, ammunition, the vehicle itself, spading. Cost a humongous about of silver lions! Now I am lucky enough that I can afford premium ect. but my friend isn’t, and he hasn’t, for months, had more than 100,000 silver lions for a long period of time and it limits his time to grind the game in a few days of me having premium I have caught up to him for a 3.7 tank (he was 5.7) to his rank and I’m now going past him. Also the repair cost for high-tier jets is wayy to high. You have to get about 2 or more kills if you die to brake even with the silver lions and I love this game but this needs to change and giygin (i dont know how to spell it, don’t judge) proberly will ignore this but I pray to whoever will make this happen make them change it please! someone!
(Sorry for the essay)
This is true
I'm free to play never bought anything and I had 1.5mil sl
This is probably the best essay I’ve seen on yt
buy some ge for him
@@Lucky_MiTo. Same, if you can do good you'll get the money you need, trust me on that one, I'm at 1.3 mil rn using the ol tiger
been playing war thunder for almost 5-6 years from time to time. reason of the time to time is because of the grind system and me being a f2p player. after all those years i was only able to research tier 4 and give up there.
Personally, I like to stay at 2.7 BR Tank Arcade because at worst I get 20min Repair Time and somewhat decent SL payout (around 2k upwards) and I don't need to worry too much about being UpTierd because I can somewhat destroy those 3.7's
Ground arcade is extremely underrated
I get 20 to 30k a game at 3.0 arcade
@@nebulostheparticleman yeah low br arcade is one of the best game modes for money
Bruh the way to make more SL was best , well done
Argument for space climbers, bombers and otherwise: I might be losing out on SL and tanking my time, ect, but for all my teammates who died its super helpful. The win gives them those few hundred extra lions and rp for the time they did put in. You might be losing in the long run, but its really helpful for your team (if you are def gonna ein by running that is).
I just bought my first tier 3 medium tank and immediately went back to tier 2 when I realised the repair cost of my new tank exceeded my average SL earnings...
Feels great...
Something you did not really mention about the sales is that they most often show up near holidays
Yeah like the Christmas sale that happened not to long ago
Agreed especially on SL. I have been a premium player for years even with premium vehicles and it's been probably like 3-4 years since I have had over 3mil silver lions. I could grind mindlessly with the Japanese Corsair or the Moffett but that gets boring. I'd rather be rewarded for playing whatever I want to play.
As a new WT player I really appreciate this video. I am tempering my expectations going in. I was a unicum in both WoT and just burnt out on WoWS as a superunicum due to all the BS from WG. I am actually fine playing mid-tier and learning the game and getting good at it. It can be rough playing stock vehicles. Really unfortunate that Gaijin seems almost as scummy as Wargaming. I wish there was more competition for these type of games and developers that you don't hate in a game you want to love.
i just got into the game its enjoyable but the issues u brought up are extremely valid for even beginners
I haven’t experienced dopamine in years now
I first played war thunder in mid 2020(I now have about 700 hours in the game), and joined for the modern vehicles. However on my grind to the higher tiers I fell in love with the ww2 aspect of the game. I originally had the mindset of gettin to top tier completely free to play, but lost that at rank IV in tanks and rank III in planes. Instead of giving up because of the grind I play lower tiers and other nations when I need a break from my main. I also recommend that if your not super determined to get to top tier asap that you play both planes and tanks at the same time so that you don’t get discouraged.
I agree with everything stated in this video. I’ve been playing WT since long before ground forces were even added, it’s always been a favorite of mine. That being said, it’s hard for me to play now because of how grindy it has become. New vehicles being added should be exciting and fun, instead I just think to myself “I will literally never be able to play that vehicle”. It’s really sad to see because I want to enjoy my time in the game like the old days, but it’s just too hard now.
Thank you for not making this a social experiment
Starting to wonder how many more videos like this the community has to produce before Gaijin starts listening and implements changes.
I can talk for myself when I say, the grind is the single biggest thing that kept me at distance from this game since I first signed up in 2013. Instead I've invested much more time into WoT, which was still grindy for a beginner but in fact got easier once you put in some time to train up some crews and accumulate a bit of Credits.
In a lot of ways I would consider WoTs grind much more well-rounded than most games I've played thus far and they even made it *EASIER* a couple of years ago, when they implemented 'blueprints', that reduce the research cost of any chosen vehicle and can be earned through playing (arguably it's too easy now because WoT has the opposite trend of WT: they push newbies into higher tiers as soon as they join the game).
However this distance to WT might've had a plus side too... I didn't quit!
I keep coming back in for regular visits with lots of playtime before it gets boring again and the realization starts kicking back in that I'll never be able to fly some of my favourite planes or drive my favourite tanks just because I'm a regular who's also got a life besides WT.
From 2013 until now, the 17th March 2021, my highest ranked vehicles are the Jpanther, Kingtiger (P), Bf-109 K-4, and FW-190 D-9... (I have bought the Henschel Kingtiger, the Panther II, the 105mm Tiger, the Ta-152 H-1 and the Alouette heelo but can't yet afford to put them into lineups/ crew training/ buy modules/ afford repair costs [K-4 has almost 20k at this point in time]).
I have also started to move up the American tech tree until the 105mm Sherman & the F6F-5 and Russian ground forces up to the T-34-57, ZiS-5 KV, and ASU-57...
I'm almost at the 8 year mark for this game, yet it feels like I've not accomplished anything in comparison to other games that I've played for less than 2 years.
At last, this game really stands in a unique position in the gaming market and it has a huge potential. It just seems that Gaijin trusts another path of long time investment than the community and it's a real shame they don't seem to open up to the idea of attracting old aswell as new players through the phun and stimulative gameplay instead of *InSeRt ShInY nEw ToYs HeRe* and *DrOwN tHe CrItIcIsM iN cOnTeNt* way they chose.
Closing point: I love this game and have done so for a long time, but I still don't see myself comitting to the amount of absurdities this game throws at one in constant fashion for a prolonged time.
cleep kalm and suffer on
o7 TheSteelDrummer
Year later and no better. I've been poking back at it but I used to grind hardcore.
Nailed it here.
That's why alot of players only bring 1 tank or plane into the game to expensive to run other tanks in a match. The other problem that pushes new players away is cold war vs WW2 they really need a barrier between the 2
Been playing this game for over half a decade, and I still can't fathom how anyone has those high tier vics...
best game recently had around 80k sl but only 9k research points it takes forever finally tier V germany but thats only tanks havent touched planes yet
just came back to this vid again researching last tier V now then for another break
Man the tip when it comes to ground RB was on point. Staying mobile and doing stuff is hugely important.
I remember when I struggled with SL at around 7.0 BR. So naturally my instinct made me "play safer" so I don't lose my tank early. But because of how rewards are calculated, having 5 kills in a quick flash with 15mins of afk camping is less rewarding then charging in, capping half a point, pinging someone with your MG, and dying in 3 shots.
And one of my friends quit the game because he couldn't make SL. He would also get scared of losing his tank, camped at the back, and maybe got a few kills occasionally. But if he died he wouldn't spawn more tanks if we were losing. Claiming that it was just going to be waste since he might get spawn sniped.
Why would you play a game if you are scared of loosing it?
The only time in my almoast 3000 hours that i used a 800% booster i got in a sim match that had 8 min left XD
Boosters bring more cash and a shit ton of bad luck
Change my mind
@@DontSayEasy cant argue with this assessment
@Jacob Abra nice. i mean i dont care about wt anymore since i quit
As a new player I'm just enjoying tier 2-3 air RB in different nations, and the grind problem is nonexistent
When my main account got banned a while back ago, i took a break before returning around the beginning of 2020. I started a fresh account and with a lot of free time and played war thunder continuously for over 200 days, (i know this because of the login rewards). Anyway, ive only spent 10 dollars on the account (mostly going to cosmetics) and ive just scratched the surface of V rank in the Russian tech tree (ground forces). And this is coming from a experienced player who has been playing war thunder since 2016 off and on with around 500+ hours under my belt. So i think its safe to say that yes, the grind is pretty bad and could be a lot better. Time and time again, my friends have been turned off by war thunder whenever i try to get them to play. Its not even because they dont like the game, they all think its a cool concept and is a breeze of fresh air compared to world of tanks, its just the pay to win mechanics war thunder tries to push. Leopards, BR compression, repair costs, the increasing need for Golden Eagles; it all just makes the game feel like true shit and has frustrated me more than ever. I know you've probably heard this many times before, but it really truly is a love hate relationship. War thunder knows there's not a single game like it, so they exploit it to the extreme.
So, the lesson here? Just dont spend money. The less war thunder earns, the more they'll rule out pay to win mechanics, and actually start fixing their game. Please make sure to advise any of your friends trying out the game, or new players in general just to not spend money. Its a waste of time, and truly isn't worth it. Maybe after war thunder fixes their game ill be willing to spare a few extra dollars.
The grind a year later stays the same. Im a free to play player that is currently STILL grinding out the American tech tree. The thing is, i have the money and would be willing to give Gaijin money, but the main thing preventing me from that is the current state of the game. If Gaijin gets their shit together, i would actually pay for some stuff. This sounds tough, but remember, spite is historically one of the most powerful motivations.
Is there a info source where I can see exactly how many tickets each objective in air-sim is worth? Regardless of the rewards I’m competitive so I want to win, but being new to the gamemode I’m not really sure what I should be putting a priority on. If it makes a difference, I average an air kill about every 4-5 minutes
I've always found that tier 3 is the sweet spot for fun, at least for flying. But sometimes just tier 1 biplanes can be such blast as long as the map is not too big.
Indeed, I gave up when I reached T5. Even if you do ridiculously good but lost a couple vehicles, you’ll just be barely in the positive even with premium. And if you lose outright… just cry in the corner or open your wallet.
I go back from time to time to WT using my T3/4 war machines. Still fun but Gaijin won’t taste a cent from me again.
@Caelesti Gladii I'm trying to grind to t4 for the major allies and axis trees, I have some t5 mostly in Brit and Russia, but no high tier jets, too painful to repair. I shut off automatic repair and wait days to fly t5 stuff to repair for free. The only way I can slowly earn silver lions.
"the average player will be lucky to get top teir in a year" dude i have been playing this game for 5 years now and 5.7 is my maximum BR
I totally agree with the grind because I started this game like 1 month ago and I'm on tier 3 in America planes and its soo hard to get someone down because they shot you twice and you're down
Wait, you can change vehicle setup by j-ing out at an airfield?
The whole booster=up tier may not be 100% true but someone did actually test this theory and it did come back positive
I'm going to uninstall this game when I get home today. Thank you for the clarity. I've never paid a cent for this game in ~100hrs of playing over years and I never will.
FW-190 A4 got me a loooot of money in air arcade... In terms of ground, the premium T-34-57 is absolutely amazing.
i only play pve and it took me few years to unlock whole us tank tree so it is decent
I remember I first started playing at the beginning of the Pandemic for about a month, started with a few days of premium and a US tier 1 premium from a TH-cam promotion. In that month, I jumped around a bit trying various modes and nations. Settled on going with US and made it to the M22. Played for another few weeks this year in late may and made it to the M3 Lee. This grind is ridiculous.
"...would increase que times..." - Gaijin
It was the real airs that through me off the game. My brother plays one handed due to an accident when he was young and for him ,someone who just wants to play for fun , he is at a massive disadvantage due to this system
The grind is not the problem the problem is the economy
Playing stock tanks without spare parts and fire extinguisher is just torture.
So yes the grind IS a problem
@@SuperDeinVadda I'm using the Type 90 stock. Gaijjn nerfed NATO HEATFS and now the entire Russian top tier is 10.3 so you only face enemies with ERA.
It's almost physically impossible to generate RP and the modules are extremely expensive. By far one of the worse gaming experiences I had. I took a 1 year break from the game, after this joke I might take another.
@@SuperDeinVadda that happens for what 5 games? It's apart of seeing how it makes your tank better equipped w parts...you dont, or probably shouldn't play 59 battles w out unlocking parts mod....parts mod should be first to unlock imo
@@starfighter1043 yeah no shit.
Still if your tank get its in the barrel you can just j out and go again.
Where is the fun in that?
Especially high tier tanks need alot of exp. To unlock anything.
I don't mind the grind fir new vehicles. But grinding modules is just not fun at all.
The grind is a issue. It takes forever to unlock a new vehicle that instantly gets you up-tiered and annihilated.
i once got a 900% RP booster from the war bond shop (didn't even know they existed), got into a battle that went really well and came out with 80k RP without premium
War Thunder's grind is terribly long, designed to be difficult, and predatory at heart. Not sure if I'll get any engagement, but if anyone is interested, I am more than happy to explain Gaijin's predatory game design.
And here I thought the grind was too much when I started playing in 2015.
I quit in late 2017 after 500~ hours at tier IV in the US, USSR, and German aircraft tech trees. I never even played tanks.
how to turn off automatic repair and automatic ammunition refill?
Uncheck the check marks at the bottom right corner of the nations menu bar...thank me later
I am a casual player who's been playing War Thunder for near enough 3 years. I chose not to focus on a single nation because if I'm playing the same thing over and over again I get bored; I like to switch it up a bit. I have the US and Germany trees up to rank 5 and tbh I cannot stand ground RB anymore, and have instead pretty much resorted to playing assault ground arcade, getting the 300% booster (If my group doesn't suck and we win; that's a coin toss in itself) and then going to arcade where I can at least get some kills before I either get flanked or bombed. While I have spent money on premiums before, most notably on the premium Jumbo (with a discount), I am not going to spend more money on a game that effectively punishes you for playing it. IF the game was fun (as it was for me before, hence why I bought those premiums), I would be glad to put some money into it, but I am not going to waste money on this game when it is clear the people behind it are clearly using me and all players as cash cows.
The game got really bad for me this year, it just wasn't as fun as it had been the previous year, and I couldn't figure out why. I originally blamed it on myself, thinking I had gotten lazy, but the truth soon dawned on me that the reason why this was happening was the introduction of the battle pass. The BP is pretty much a year-round event, and that means that people are ALWAYS on event mode; they will throw team playing out the window and resort to ugly tactics because they are desperate to complete their dailies.