In an online world filled with self claimed "experts", it's so refreshing to see someone who actually knows and loves what he's talking about. Props man
you are absolutely correct, i dont know much about the physics of audio but this guy is helping me out a lot!! he is definitely the best on youtube if not the entire internet, makes me sad that he only has 57k followers.
Nice to find somebody that really knows what they're talkin about in-depth! Been brainstorming for a while on what dimensions and type of cabinet that would work best for the forward cab of my Stepside bread truck. Thank you for the great educational content.
About twenty years ago, I used WIN ISD software to design a 6th Order Parallel Tuned Band Pass with a Radio Shack 8 inch woofer. It was quite impressive, and I had people swear I was using a 15s in my enclosures. I still have one of the pair and currently use it for my PC sub.
I don’t know how actually useful it will be, but this channel has yet to be anything less than absolutely fascinating. It looks like I’m going to be spending the Easter break searching out the rest of your posts Thanks for your time and effort!
Ahhh, the knowledge (and Team Toxic Bass flashbacks). Thanks for the deeper understanding of design and how it can change the logistics of your build. Its not the gear, its having an understanding of what the gear can do. Audio tailoring.
I have been a fan of your content for about 4 or so years. I live nearby in Tucson and my passion is car audio! I go to bed dreaming about different audio setups every night! I love your passion and knowledge of the subject. Maybe someday we will meet since you live within a hour of here. Thanks for the great videos!
I wanted to thank you for your videos. I have always built sealed boxes just out of simplicity and never looked into ported boxes because of it. I have learned a lot binging your vids the past few days.
My wife too gets louder & louder & louder & louder & louder & louder & Poof !!!! Lol thank you Peter for yet another amazing tutorial video... Awsome & educational as always !!!!
Another excellent and informative video. It is impressive to see how your video production quality has improved so much in in a half year. Certainly redoing the previous "Counting Enclosure Orders" one for the sake of those prone to motion sickness would be a valuable contribution, even if it was just an edit with the same sound track an diagrams only.
At some point, please remake your 'Counting Bandpass Orders" video from the Audio Dynamics vlog. The content is excellent but it would be great to see it redone with your improved production value (and the lack of a shaky POV camera). It would also be great if you could delve into the capacitive, resistive and reactive concepts. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Informative as always Pete. I concur with +Dylan Harrison. Taking into account that rooms and cars both have various sizes to them, how a larger or smaller box and design + location can all be pushed toward reaching your target sound. I think these would be great topics for vlogs. Hi Sophie!
This is the best I have heard this explained. I notice that you often talk about making an enclosure more inductive or capacitive. I am sure it has to do with moving those control points up and down a a decent explanation would be amazing. I have been searching the interwebs for what feels like years and I cannot find anything on the subject that doesn't require a Phd to understand.
I too would love to recreate the 8th order and and put it on a spl meter. I have so much fun using different different designs and driver's. Especially those combinations that really shouldn't be used together. Sometimes, though, they have surprising results.
Best videos on the internet regarding enclosure and loudspeaker design - really great content! Would love for you to dive a little bit more into the differences between capacitive, resistive and inductive loads etc. as well as how you may go about designing a sealed enclosure accounting for the 4th order bandpass effects of a vehicle cabin.
So basically sealed is 2nd order because it only has the subwoofer to radiate sound. Ported/passive radiator is 4th order because of the active driver and the passive port/radiator working together. 4th order bandpass has the active driver basically in a sealed box with a port/passive radiator on top of that. 6th and 8th are just more complex versions of 4th order bandpass. I’m probably dumbing it down but that’s my understanding of it. Or what I gathered from watching the video at least.
I really love your videos. I like the way you explain things, and while i struggle to keep up at times, im always eager to learn more and am usually sad when your videos end. Thank you for your contributions! You are amazing at what you do.
I have learned that there are some class d amplifiers that happen to be quite efficient. So, efficiency in a sub box is interesting as well. Some efficient subs tend to now go very deep and typically the ones that hit the bottom notes tend to not be very efficient.
You're correct about group delay (charge storage) with high order filters. But high order filters can also (especially when the damping factor is poor; eg, most passive networks) be synonymous with moving coil transducers "ringing" as they try, but fail, to follow the SPL-descent that the sharp Xover slope describes/defines. This 1 reason why (in speaker/monitor design) you often (but not always) see high order Xovers (4th order and higher) usually implemented in active systems; where there is no passive network between the amplifier output stage and the transducer itself; therefore optimizing damping and other Xover design considerations. Appreciate that here, in this video, you're mostly talking about acoustic filters, as opposed to electric filters. Still, there are always compromises, as high order acoustic filters introduce some funky considerations to the impedance/phase plots.
One topic of interest for me: the dynamics of a sound wave propagating through a room. Specifically, topics such phase, delay, and waterfall graphs from measuring tools like REW, and constructive/destructive wave interactions when dealing with multiple subwoofers in a room. Thanks!
What could be done with all the air movement and pressure from subwoofer output? Possible involve water 💧 🤔 or metal to produce another frequency or spectical of some sort. Could it be used to create energy or a portal?? The circular shape of a voice coil has not been revolutionized yet. Square subs are funny; they have circle voice coils also 😆
Airspace and subwoofers. Give a nice explanation of how they truly correlate and if going bigger or smaller than recommended affects the output and logetivity of the driver?
I need a 2 to 1 6th order box that is tuned to 25hz rear and 50hz for 2 12s. What i need is all the details to what i need to cut each board to and what ones in order to put them together. I need someome who has the ability to do so.
It would be very interesting to hear you discuss the Western Electric horns (12, 15, 16, etc.), air column, horn length, and frequency responses. Another great vid. Thanks.
I've built an 6th and an 8th, the 8th is a triple reflex type, tuned to 39, 75 and 105 Hz. The driver is just an entry level Orion Cobalt 10 inch, rated at 200 watts RMS, with an F/S frequency of 39 Hz. I built if for my car, and it's by far the loudest 200 watts I've herd, and it compliments rock, especially considering the Bass Guitar's lowest note is roughly 41 Hz. It was very experimental, and i'm far from an expert. My 12 inch Alpine type R is in a 6th order, that is loud, but it it's only good for hip-hop, rhythm and blues, Electronic music, as it starts topping out at 70ish Hz, the 8th however gets well into the 120- 130 Hz. And yes it's a beast, like 40 Kg.
Love fabfilter plugins !!! This was cool! How does the acoustic order affect the sub’s power handling? How do you determine the correct amount of power for a sub in a ported or bandpass? I usually read about a sub in a sealed enclosure taking more power vs sealed or bandpass, can you please elaborate as to why? Also it may be good to have concrete info from an experienced designer like you to talk about on series vs parallel tuning. Just some ideas for content! Thanks for the vid!
I'm curious as to what a horn does with control points. It must be like a 4th order but with a port with multiple resonant frequencies or a continuous resonant range, although it takes up a lot of space to do this.
In my opinion 6th order bandpass is as sweet spot. Lower range, 2 control points and not much distortion. Only drawback in my eyes is it's size. For as compact design as possible you have to sacrifice a lot and spend huge amout of time with calculations and design for compromiss.
Is it possible to use a “free air” subwoofer to design only the front portion of a 4th order bandpass to fire into and then direct the port output to a rear deck in a car?
I don't suppose you could do a free consultation for me on what box I should build and what subs I should pick with my specific budget, space, and power constraints, could you?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, time, and efforts. I can see this as my "the place it started" point and good sense would make me run away right this minute but now I have questions... haha. I'm from the era where Jensen 6x9" coaxs and 20wpc booster were an awesome upgrade, and not surprisingly I still have the old Radio Shack book on speaker enclosures from about the same era (70's) One of the projects is a multiple chamber bandpass but I can't tell what order it is because the primary chamber is vented to the front of the box as well as the secondary chamber. Both chambers have a front facing port and it's a 2:1 ratio box they reported tuning to 35/70hz. I don't get what the primary chamber port to the front and speaker facing the front does to the order count though. My guess is 8th order because of the three ports, two chambers. That search for tuning math and a better understanding of order counts leads me to here and your excellent content. Now, after watching this a couple of times, I tried finding your 5.25 design. I fear it's lost in the webs. I'm really interested in the tuning part and I'd love to find it if the design is still posted somewhere. Any pointers would be fantastic. Thanks!
Some engineers at Bose modeled group delay from cascaded vents and chambers and found they could cascade about 10 chambers before group delay became objectionable in listening tests. Now, that's Bose talking, but somebody did try it. I learned this from a former Bose engineer who designed many of their stereo speakers from the 1990s (though not the Acoustimass cube systems).
Ok ok I have to ask you a question or few. I have a small light duty pickup truck that I am using to grasp on to what was my youth. In this single cab s10 I have the intentions of a sound system that is not just loud (where my issues and concerns lay), but also be very musical. Is a 8th order hybrid or a fourth order enclosure something I should continue to explore? To do this, I am very aware that I would need to put the enclosure in the bed and cut through to the cab. Now as I am trying to grasp at my youth, I am not trying to bring along the ignorance I had in tow. Before I do something crazy like this I would love some solid advice. Anything that you could add would be greatly appreciated. If you would like any additional information, feel free to contact me.
I know this is an old video, and I have tried googling about more information, specifically the first style 8th order Bass reflex style box which I had never heard of before. I have seen the style where the sub is contained in the chamber (bandpass) but never one not in a bandpass style enclosure. If I get one built, how do I protect my subs from a masked clip or the group delay?
I Know this an old video but figured Id ask here since its relevant. You mentioned group delay and it makes sense to me on paper but when thinking about the way its been described to me it doesnt seem like it should change. It has been described to me as the mass of air in the port is essentially coupled to the woofer, if that is the case shouldnt the output of the port happen with woofer movement?
I would love to learn about how to design higher order types of enclosures. Sort of a basic "how to approach the topic without getting too nuts" type of video, that would be quite nice^^
Do Isobaric setups sound tighter / faster / better? i.e 4 cu foot encosure on one amp (w/one driver) vs. two 2 cu foot enclosures on two amps (four drivers) I assume having four times the drivers, and twice the power to get the same spl / response curve must come with dramatically more solid & controlled results?
Hey I've done a hell of a lot of business with you over the years...and wish you would consider doing your blueprints designs again....not just under the AD brand
Scouring TH-cam, I can’t find a single video about designing boxes above 2nd order with the exception of 4th. I think I understand tuning frequency with port length, but is there a way to adjust the Q? How does one model this with free software or a good old fashioned calculator if necessary?
I'm very interested in higher order enclosures. my current issure is im interested in designing and building a series 6th order enclosure. I designed and been sucessfull in designing and building 6th order parrallel enclosures but can find verylimited info on series configurations. Mainly people saying dont do it. Which makes me want to do it more lol. Hooe you can help
you need to make a video explaining and maybe graphing how lets say a 4th order bandpass in a wall makes the cab and window down become a 6th order. I think not many people understand this and you cover in other videos but not directly. thanks
Ya it’s still the old formula for bandpass boxes they hide distortion. But I figure since bass is glamorized distortion anyway-Go for it! Audio is such a kool hobby to have I’m always learning stuff especially from you. You rock!! Can you do a push and pull 8th order?? I like ultra low bass. I hear some people will build a “piston” type rig just to simulate low bass.
Can you explain the pro/cons of a 6.5th order car audio enclosure. I believe the subwoofers on the outside of the enclosure give a supercharging effect on the air flow.
Is there any way to model/simulate all these acoustic orders? Also can you do a vid on the principles of how helmholtz's resonance ties into all the different orders? Loving these vids man
You can model pretty much Anything with Akabak. I originally posted the 8th order equations (as they were given to me) back in 1997 on the diysubwoofers page. Very tedious, and they don't allow for any experimentation. Akabak will let you model anything you can write a script for.
@@HexiBase What did you study to get into this field of designing enclosures ? Is there a specific course one has to do to get into your field of work?
horn loaded subwoofer cabinets, I see little on this topic from you Pete. Of all of the enclosure designs I see this as the most under appreciated and with modern DSP all the old draw backs are negated... as with high order band pass enclosures the horn loaded enclosure is large but efficient, certain applications allow the use of these designs such as Professional audio many times.
true, they are large, Hoffman's iron law: large, efficient, and low... pick any two and the third will be the opposite!!! for horns they are efficient and go low but they are not small
Horns are not that big and they can get low, there are designs that easily drop into the low 30hz range. Have you seen: Danley Sound Lab subs, Speaker Plans 1850, LAB Sub, Turbosound TSW218, JTR Growler, Martin Audio WLX, BFM Tuba or Titan series horn loaded subwoofer designs to name a few. To be too large to not be practical is subjective to say the least. Don't dismiss them for the rest of the world because they don't have useful application for you. I happen to use a large bank of horn loaded subwoofers in my mobile dj rig and they do a great job and they run on 1/4 the power that a direct radiator bass reflex rig would require to be equally as loud. Good luck finding a stack of 18" pa Subwoofers that can play down to 28-30hz with any real authority.!!!
i want to design an 8th order bass reflex for a skar audio IX-10 as a fun project to see how well a cheap sub can perform in a well designed box as kinda testament to how the box if just as if not more important than the sub itself anyone got any help with this?
This is very intriguing! I'd love to know how to design these kinds of enclosures, but couldn't find anything about this niche topic. Any help is appreciated!
Subwoofer box seems like a muffler. in subwoofer box the more barrier it has the louder it gets, why the muffler gets silent when it has a barriers in it while the engine and the speaker are both producing sounds?
G'day Pete, Yay Team ! Very interesting..., thanks for posting. The DottarNomad is currently camping at Yollara, beside Uluru ; in the Red Heart...(!). Have a good one, ;-p Ciao !
Awesome job buddy! One from hundreds knows his stuff... :-) But again, carefully with the efficiency. These enclosures are not THAT efficient. Very big chunk of that is that the enclosure just can load the driver. That also means there will be lowe impedance, more current, more power, therefore more sound. The box does add some efficiency, but not all of it, at all....
So an eighth order is creating multiple frequency spikes per say as opposed to a t line which lowers the spikes and fills in the dips? Also which one is more efficient? Could either one of these be used in a high wattage spl build with the added benefit of having a broader bandwidth?
Can you please comment on how much group delay is too much for typical music listening? It would be interesting to hear recordings of a driver in a low group delay enclosure and in a high group delay enclosure. eg what does 5ms vs 40ms vs 100ms sound like?
@@HexiBase Thanks for the reply, this is a much more specific answer than anything else I could find. Feeling fortunate to have found your channel, and I'm looking forward to seeing more from you. I also subbed to AD's channel.
In an online world filled with self claimed "experts", it's so refreshing to see someone who actually knows and loves what he's talking about. Props man
I can only add to that. This one is real :-)
you are absolutely correct, i dont know much about the physics of audio but this guy is helping me out a lot!! he is definitely the best on youtube if not the entire internet, makes me sad that he only has 57k followers.
@@lustmatt4 well now he has double XD
instaBlaster.
Nice to find somebody that really knows what they're talkin about in-depth! Been brainstorming for a while on what dimensions and type of cabinet that would work best for the forward cab of my Stepside bread truck. Thank you for the great educational content.
About twenty years ago, I used WIN ISD software to design a 6th Order Parallel Tuned Band Pass with a Radio Shack 8 inch woofer. It was quite impressive, and I had people swear I was using a 15s in my enclosures. I still have one of the pair and currently use it for my PC sub.
Roughly how gigantic would one be for a Sundown X15 subwoofer? curious cause i can only guess it would be the size of a small car hahaha
finally someone on youtube that can explain the "voodoo" parts of bass enclosures.
I don’t know how actually useful it will be, but this channel has yet to be anything less than absolutely fascinating.
It looks like I’m going to be spending the Easter break searching out the rest of your posts
Thanks for your time and effort!
Ahhh, the knowledge (and Team Toxic Bass flashbacks). Thanks for the deeper understanding of design and how it can change the logistics of your build.
Its not the gear, its having an understanding of what the gear can do. Audio tailoring.
I have been a fan of your content for about 4 or so years. I live nearby in Tucson and my passion is car audio! I go to bed dreaming about different audio setups every night! I love your passion and knowledge of the subject. Maybe someday we will meet since you live within a hour of here. Thanks for the great videos!
Only he doesn't live in Tucson anymore....
I wanted to thank you for your videos. I have always built sealed boxes just out of simplicity and never looked into ported boxes because of it. I have learned a lot binging your vids the past few days.
My wife too gets louder & louder & louder & louder & louder & louder &
Poof !!!! Lol thank you Peter for yet
another amazing tutorial video...
Awsome & educational as always !!!!
Another excellent and informative video.
It is impressive to see how your video production quality has improved so much in in a half year. Certainly redoing the previous "Counting Enclosure Orders" one for the sake of those prone to motion sickness would be a valuable contribution, even if it was just an edit with the same sound track an diagrams only.
At some point, please remake your 'Counting Bandpass Orders" video from the Audio Dynamics vlog. The content is excellent but it would be great to see it redone with your improved production value (and the lack of a shaky POV camera). It would also be great if you could delve into the capacitive, resistive and reactive concepts. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I liked the pov camera
Pete I'm always so happy and excited to see you and to be watching your TH-cam videos. 👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Aye
Informative as always Pete. I concur with +Dylan Harrison. Taking into account that rooms and cars both have various sizes to them, how a larger or smaller box and design + location can all be pushed toward reaching your target sound. I think these would be great topics for vlogs. Hi Sophie!
Pete, you've done it! PS Audio is advertising on your video now! Awesome! Props to ya man!
This is the best I have heard this explained. I notice that you often talk about making an enclosure more inductive or capacitive. I am sure it has to do with moving those control points up and down a a decent explanation would be amazing. I have been searching the interwebs for what feels like years and I cannot find anything on the subject that doesn't require a Phd to understand.
Good to see you back man...always enlightening
Just found the channel and it's great. Thanks for the simple and clear explanations on a variety of complicated topics. Keep them coming.
I too would love to recreate the 8th order and and put it on a spl meter. I have so much fun using different different designs and driver's. Especially those combinations that really shouldn't be used together. Sometimes, though, they have surprising results.
Best videos on the internet regarding enclosure and loudspeaker design - really great content! Would love for you to dive a little bit more into the differences between capacitive, resistive and inductive loads etc. as well as how you may go about designing a sealed enclosure accounting for the 4th order bandpass effects of a vehicle cabin.
I love the group delay comment turning red.. haha.
Great format and subject matter!
Amazing information sir. Subscribed. Been looking for content like this for soooo long. Keep it up
So basically sealed is 2nd order because it only has the subwoofer to radiate sound.
Ported/passive radiator is 4th order because of the active driver and the passive port/radiator working together.
4th order bandpass has the active driver basically in a sealed box with a port/passive radiator on top of that.
6th and 8th are just more complex versions of 4th order bandpass.
I’m probably dumbing it down but that’s my understanding of it. Or what I gathered from watching the video at least.
My new fav vids to watch...awesome ..the Yoda of sound
A regular VLOG is returning!?!!?! I am excite!!!!
Miss the vlogs. Nice info
I'm curious about the 8th order bandpass you made, do you have a link to the forum page?
I really love your videos. I like the way you explain things, and while i struggle to keep up at times, im always eager to learn more and am usually sad when your videos end. Thank you for your contributions! You are amazing at what you do.
I have learned that there are some class d amplifiers that happen to be quite efficient. So, efficiency in a sub box is interesting as well. Some efficient subs tend to now go very deep and typically the ones that hit the bottom notes tend to not be very efficient.
Peter, Thank you so much for these video's. I remember following your suggestions on the various forums many years ago.
I can't believe I didn't find this sooner.
Informative information, Pete.
motional feedback drivers would be a nice topic to cover
You're correct about group delay (charge storage) with high order filters.
But high order filters can also (especially when the damping factor is poor; eg, most passive networks) be synonymous with moving coil transducers "ringing" as they try, but fail, to follow the SPL-descent that the sharp Xover slope describes/defines.
This 1 reason why (in speaker/monitor design) you often (but not always) see high order Xovers (4th order and higher) usually implemented in active systems; where there is no passive network between the amplifier output stage and the transducer itself; therefore optimizing damping and other Xover design considerations.
Appreciate that here, in this video, you're mostly talking about acoustic filters, as opposed to electric filters. Still, there are always compromises, as high order acoustic filters introduce some funky considerations to the impedance/phase plots.
This answered some of the questions i had. Thank u.
One topic of interest for me: the dynamics of a sound wave propagating through a room. Specifically, topics such phase, delay, and waterfall graphs from measuring tools like REW, and constructive/destructive wave interactions when dealing with multiple subwoofers in a room. Thanks!
What could be done with all the air movement and pressure from subwoofer output? Possible involve water 💧 🤔 or metal to produce another frequency or spectical of some sort. Could it be used to create energy or a portal??
The circular shape of a voice coil has not been revolutionized yet. Square subs are funny; they have circle voice coils also 😆
Airspace and subwoofers. Give a nice explanation of how they truly correlate and if going bigger or smaller than recommended affects the output and logetivity of the driver?
I need a 2 to 1 6th order box that is tuned to 25hz rear and 50hz for 2 12s. What i need is all the details to what i need to cut each board to and what ones in order to put them together. I need someome who has the ability to do so.
Ha! Those are my box pictures!
I was just going to say that I built your free design years ago. I still use it in my home gym.
"Toxic Bass" I believe was watermarked on the design.
Do you still have the plans? Sounds like a fun project.
@@Willowfiasco I'm sure I do. I'll have to look around on my server.
@@Willowfiasco What's your email?
@@Steven--- axanrobert@hotmail.com
It would be very interesting to hear you discuss the Western Electric horns (12, 15, 16, etc.), air column, horn length, and frequency responses. Another great vid. Thanks.
Very informative! I like it! Id love to see more videos like this one!
I've built an 6th and an 8th, the 8th is a triple reflex type, tuned to 39, 75 and 105 Hz. The driver is just an entry level Orion Cobalt 10 inch, rated at 200 watts RMS, with an F/S frequency of 39 Hz. I built if for my car, and it's by far the loudest 200 watts I've herd, and it compliments rock, especially considering the Bass Guitar's lowest note is roughly 41 Hz. It was very experimental, and i'm far from an expert. My 12 inch Alpine type R is in a 6th order, that is loud, but it it's only good for hip-hop, rhythm and blues, Electronic music, as it starts topping out at 70ish Hz, the 8th however gets well into the 120- 130 Hz. And yes it's a beast, like 40 Kg.
Love fabfilter plugins !!! This was cool! How does the acoustic order affect the sub’s power handling? How do you determine the correct amount of power for a sub in a ported or bandpass? I usually read about a sub in a sealed enclosure taking more power vs sealed or bandpass, can you please elaborate as to why? Also it may be good to have concrete info from an experienced designer like you to talk about on series vs parallel tuning. Just some ideas for content! Thanks for the vid!
I'm curious as to what a horn does with control points. It must be like a 4th order but with a port with multiple resonant frequencies or a continuous resonant range, although it takes up a lot of space to do this.
You are the man win it comes to acoustic
Yeah. You are not drown out in this video with loud background music. I just subbed.
In my opinion 6th order bandpass is as sweet spot. Lower range, 2 control points and not much distortion. Only drawback in my eyes is it's size. For as compact design as possible you have to sacrifice a lot and spend huge amout of time with calculations and design for compromiss.
Is it possible to use a “free air” subwoofer to design only the front portion of a 4th order bandpass to fire into and then direct the port output to a rear deck in a car?
Awesome explanation, thanks!
I don't suppose you could do a free consultation for me on what box I should build and what subs I should pick with my specific budget, space, and power constraints, could you?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, time, and efforts. I can see this as my "the place it started" point and good sense would make me run away right this minute but now I have questions... haha.
I'm from the era where Jensen 6x9" coaxs and 20wpc booster were an awesome upgrade, and not surprisingly I still have the old Radio Shack book on speaker enclosures from about the same era (70's) One of the projects is a multiple chamber bandpass but I can't tell what order it is because the primary chamber is vented to the front of the box as well as the secondary chamber. Both chambers have a front facing port and it's a 2:1 ratio box they reported tuning to 35/70hz. I don't get what the primary chamber port to the front and speaker facing the front does to the order count though. My guess is 8th order because of the three ports, two chambers.
That search for tuning math and a better understanding of order counts leads me to here and your excellent content. Now, after watching this a couple of times, I tried finding your 5.25 design. I fear it's lost in the webs. I'm really interested in the tuning part and I'd love to find it if the design is still posted somewhere. Any pointers would be fantastic. Thanks!
We want to see the box being built
well said pete! you could also mention the destruction of transients in an 8th too as a bad point lol x
He did mention higher group delay which is what causes poor transients.
Hope you and Sophie have been doing well.
Thanks for sharing, you explain things in a helpful way.
Some engineers at Bose modeled group delay from cascaded vents and chambers and found they could cascade about 10 chambers before group delay became objectionable in listening tests. Now, that's Bose talking, but somebody did try it. I learned this from a former Bose engineer who designed many of their stereo speakers from the 1990s (though not the Acoustimass cube systems).
Hah! Group delay is objectionable way before 10 chambers. Bose were experts at that with only 2 chambers.
I love these videos
Thanks this gave me better insight in to the system I am going to build...
I really enjoy your videos, even i dont understand everything. But this video is so good explained, i understood everything... almost =)
Cool, didnt know that an 8th order are series too. That means when a put an 4th order in my car, the car itself lasts in an 8th order, thanks man;)
You are amazing, love your videos, and the information you give is so cool and rare to find , if that makes an sense. Thank you 👌❤
Ok ok I have to ask you a question or few. I have a small light duty pickup truck that I am using to grasp on to what was my youth. In this single cab s10 I have the intentions of a sound system that is not just loud (where my issues and concerns lay), but also be very musical. Is a 8th order hybrid or a fourth order enclosure something I should continue to explore? To do this, I am very aware that I would need to put the enclosure in the bed and cut through to the cab. Now as I am trying to grasp at my youth, I am not trying to bring along the ignorance I had in tow. Before I do something crazy like this I would love some solid advice. Anything that you could add would be greatly appreciated. If you would like any additional information, feel free to contact me.
I know this is an old video, and I have tried googling about more information, specifically the first style 8th order Bass reflex style box which I had never heard of before. I have seen the style where the sub is contained in the chamber (bandpass) but never one not in a bandpass style enclosure. If I get one built, how do I protect my subs from a masked clip or the group delay?
I would love to see a design for a single 10
I Know this an old video but figured Id ask here since its relevant. You mentioned group delay and it makes sense to me on paper but when thinking about the way its been described to me it doesnt seem like it should change. It has been described to me as the mass of air in the port is essentially coupled to the woofer, if that is the case shouldnt the output of the port happen with woofer movement?
yo Pete, nice to see you again.
I would love to learn about how to design higher order types of enclosures. Sort of a basic "how to approach the topic without getting too nuts" type of video, that would be quite nice^^
Used to watch your "guess what's in the trunk" vids back in the day
Do Isobaric setups sound tighter / faster / better?
i.e 4 cu foot encosure on one amp (w/one driver)
vs.
two 2 cu foot enclosures on two amps (four drivers)
I assume having four times the drivers, and twice the power to get the same spl / response curve must come with dramatically more solid & controlled results?
let's just be very real. I missed you man. Hope your back.
Hey I've done a hell of a lot of business with you over the years...and wish you would consider doing your blueprints designs again....not just under the AD brand
Check his vid before this he is doing designs again publicly whether AD drivers or not.
Scouring TH-cam, I can’t find a single video about designing boxes above 2nd order with the exception of 4th. I think I understand tuning frequency with port length, but is there a way to adjust the Q? How does one model this with free software or a good old fashioned calculator if necessary?
I'm very interested in higher order enclosures. my current issure is im interested in designing and building a series 6th order enclosure. I designed and been sucessfull in designing and building 6th order parrallel enclosures but can find verylimited info on series configurations. Mainly people saying dont do it. Which makes me want to do it more lol. Hooe you can help
you need to make a video explaining and maybe graphing how lets say a 4th order bandpass in a wall makes the cab and window down become a 6th order. I think not many people understand this and you cover in other videos but not directly. thanks
Hi! Love your videos...
What is the smallest 4th or 6 order 12 inch sub box I can build for the deepest bass ? For a hatchback vehicle
Ya it’s still the old formula for bandpass boxes they hide distortion. But I figure since bass is glamorized distortion anyway-Go for it! Audio is such a kool hobby to have I’m always learning stuff especially from you. You rock!! Can you do a push and pull 8th order?? I like ultra low bass. I hear some people will build a “piston” type rig just to simulate low bass.
Love this channel
Can you explain the pro/cons of a 6.5th order car audio enclosure. I believe the subwoofers on the outside of the enclosure give a supercharging effect on the air flow.
The build will contain 6 subs in a 6th order. 4 subs will be in the enclosure and 2 subs will be outside facing the cabin of the vehicle.
th-cam.com/video/-mcVc8UQIJ0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/svYpFktjejY/w-d-xo.html
@@HexiBase do you see any pros/cons for this enclosure?
@@HexiBase Thank you for your time and responding.
Is there any way to model/simulate all these acoustic orders? Also can you do a vid on the principles of how helmholtz's resonance ties into all the different orders?
Loving these vids man
You can model pretty much Anything with Akabak. I originally posted the 8th order equations (as they were given to me) back in 1997 on the diysubwoofers page. Very tedious, and they don't allow for any experimentation. Akabak will let you model anything you can write a script for.
@@HexiBase What did you study to get into this field of designing enclosures ? Is there a specific course one has to do to get into your field of work?
hey hexi! is there any software that would help us design rather more complicated boxes such as this?
horn loaded subwoofer cabinets, I see little on this topic from you Pete. Of all of the enclosure designs I see this as the most under appreciated and with modern DSP all the old draw backs are negated... as with high order band pass enclosures the horn loaded enclosure is large but efficient, certain applications allow the use of these designs such as Professional audio many times.
They are underappreciated because they need to be really large even when folded.
true, they are large, Hoffman's iron law: large, efficient, and low... pick any two and the third will be the opposite!!! for horns they are efficient and go low but they are not small
@@justingillette8287 Horns generally don't very low at all. As I stated they have to be very very large. So large as to not be practical.
Horns are not that big and they can get low, there are designs that easily drop into the low 30hz range. Have you seen: Danley Sound Lab subs, Speaker Plans 1850, LAB Sub, Turbosound TSW218, JTR Growler, Martin Audio WLX, BFM Tuba or Titan series horn loaded subwoofer designs to name a few. To be too large to not be practical is subjective to say the least. Don't dismiss them for the rest of the world because they don't have useful application for you. I happen to use a large bank of horn loaded subwoofers in my mobile dj rig and they do a great job and they run on 1/4 the power that a direct radiator bass reflex rig would require to be equally as loud. Good luck finding a stack of 18" pa Subwoofers that can play down to 28-30hz with any real authority.!!!
tapped horn video next
What software do you use to calculate higher order cabinets and some of the crazier designs?
I compete in car audio... I have 4 resilient sounds 18s on 4 2ohm 8k amps... what would you charge me to design a box?
I would LOVE a link to the project you speak of at the 2:00 minute mark.
Yea me too, I have looked high and low
1:18 Without the port and chamber on the very right it´ll be a 6th,right?
Not sure you are seeing this but what the heck, the project you spoke of a the 2:00 mark, Plz post a link. Thank You!
What are your thoughts on a folded horn enclosure?
i want to design an 8th order bass reflex for a skar audio IX-10 as a fun project to see how well a cheap sub can perform in a well designed box as kinda testament to how the box if just as if not more important than the sub itself anyone got any help with this?
I just got a M&K MX 350 Sub is it just the polarity that makes it Push Pull instead Isobaric?
Question: Why are FIR or Allpass filters better for groupdelay on subwoofers?
can you share your dayton 5" design and modeled spl?
I 2nd this
This is very intriguing! I'd love to know how to design these kinds of enclosures, but couldn't find anything about this niche topic. Any help is appreciated!
WinISD free software allows you to design some. Have a try.
Subwoofer box seems like a muffler. in subwoofer box the more barrier it has the louder it gets, why the muffler gets silent when it has a barriers in it while the engine and the speaker are both producing sounds?
G'day Pete,
Yay Team !
Very interesting..., thanks for posting.
The DottarNomad is currently camping at Yollara, beside Uluru ; in the Red Heart...(!).
Have a good one,
;-p
Ciao !
Sealed is the best. It’s just a 2nd acoustic order.
Awesome job buddy! One from hundreds knows his stuff... :-) But again, carefully with the efficiency. These enclosures are not THAT efficient. Very big chunk of that is that the enclosure just can load the driver. That also means there will be lowe impedance, more current, more power, therefore more sound. The box does add some efficiency, but not all of it, at all....
So an eighth order is creating multiple frequency spikes per say as opposed to a t line which lowers the spikes and fills in the dips? Also which one is more efficient? Could either one of these be used in a high wattage spl build with the added benefit of having a broader bandwidth?
How to optimize the listening experience for more seated positions in car ?
Can you please comment on how much group delay is too much for typical music listening? It would be interesting to hear recordings of a driver in a low group delay enclosure and in a high group delay enclosure. eg what does 5ms vs 40ms vs 100ms sound like?
@@HexiBase Thanks for the reply, this is a much more specific answer than anything else I could find. Feeling fortunate to have found your channel, and I'm looking forward to seeing more from you. I also subbed to AD's channel.