ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Want to submit a design? Watch here to find out how - • How to Submit a Sub Bo...
Enquiries? nsvaudio @gmail.com
Chapters:
0:00 Design Overview
2:49 Impedance Sweep
6:51 Open Air Listen
11:25 Bass Demos
13:54 DB Testing
18:15 Results
18:42 Open vs Closed results?
21:03 Size Matters
23:05 How to Submit - บันเทิง
![ทททททททท #27 [หลุยส์ เค โตมายังไง ณ สระบุรี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CaKoYw_Xmtg/mqdefault.jpg)
Yoo you should totally at the end of a season make a finale episode where you build the top box and test it in a car to compare the score with the results you got on the mini scale, this would prove people that this is accurate testing!
Freakin incredible! Absolutely massive! Glad you were able to print it. Thanks for another awesome episode Sam.
This is really innovative! I can only imagine the time invested in these videos. Must be cool being the pioneer of scale building subwoofers. Just awesome!
Thanks!
My favorite series in all of TH-cam ever. Let's keep it going. Maybe make a series on how to build an enclosure for a specific subwoofer based on its T/S parameters and test the enclosure.
Yes, Bill Fitzmaurice did a great job on designing this Enclosure.
?
@@lunam7249 This is a Bill Fitzmaurice design. FOR SURE
@@lunam7249 Bill Fitzmaurice is the person who designed this subwoofer
Hmm, you must be Bill? 😑😑😑😑😂
Performance vs. size is exactly what I want to know! For those of us who still need to fit a family in a car but want killer bass, we need as much bass in a small size as possible. Thank you for this! This is the highlight of my week!
use the car as an enclosure... m.th-cam.com/video/3A5YsQz459M/w-d-xo.htmlm22s
Bass reflex with aero port.
If U need more, add more boxes
@@sMASHsound depends on the woofer aswell, some have a large VAS and need a large enclosure, if you need low space requirements, a (pair maybe even) shallow mount woofers are probably the best option as you can make the box flatter and stretch it out more
@@sMASHsound I am running a standard ported box, I haven't heard to many bass reflex boxes that have good bandwidth. I might have to give one a try but with the extra space they take up, wouldn't just running twice the subs in a ported box make sense?
Truly enjoying every episode. Any chance you can add all the episodes to the Boom Or Bust S1 playlist?
The Sumo wrestler of enclosures! 👍🏻🔊
I think it's also valid to do a separate scoring on accuracy or lowest distortion too as if someone goes to the trouble to build a complex design you'd want it to sound good.
Agree for SQ...
I dont believe i just found your channel i absolutely love it bro thank u so much for what u r doing
That reminds me of the Cerwin Vega Bass bin from back in the day. They were loud as hell.
Bill fitzmaurice design for the tuba!
Excellent idea on scoring based on "efficiency" of space. As soon as I saw that thing, I was thinking, that thing is going to take up half the cabin!
Best Series on TH-cam.
I'm still loving this series, so glad you had the idea for the series! Can't wait for the next video.
I like the idea of rating them on physical size as it makes a lot of sense as your benchmark could easily be in someone’s daily driver hatchback but the big ones would need a full transit van which moves to goalposts quite drastically
I just found this series, so awesome.
The way you explain things and the way your mind puts it together is awesome to listen to and watch. This is seriously aome of the best audio related content going. Always a like and a comment for the algorithm. Thanks for doing these Sam, you da man!
Nice to see a Bill Fitzmaurice design on here, after I suggested the Autotuba.
BILL FITZMAURICE ALL THE WAY
My local dB drag competition has a single driver class. I work in the professional audio industry so I've always thought about how a horn would work in the car. This video will probably drive me to do this for next year's build with a Zv5 12.
A horn box with a zv5 will be insane 👀. But really big though. You will definitely hit 150db's
Horn box like the vid has been done before, it’s loud but for space is takes up it’s louder to go with a normal ported / 6th box
@@DeafeningSounds It's not just about going low and loud, it's also about doing so with distortion so low that it can hardly be measured, let alone heard. In that regard no other configuration comes close to a folded horn.
Horns work very well in cars, but not the THT. It goes at least an octave lower than you want in a car. The 'HT' stands for Home Theater. That, or a real theater, is the only application that it's suited for.
Awesome series!
I think comparing the size at the end would be really great. You could probably take the external volume of the smallest enclosure as a base, and then for each doubling of volume above that, your box has 6 subtracted from it's score.
If you went from 1-12, to 2-12 inch for example, it supposed to be +3Db, but from my test results thats only attainable @ very low wattage. It usually works out closer to +2 Db, this also pertains to power increases,= supp. to be +3 Db if you double power, but i usually see around +2 Db. Same goes for enclosure sizes example: ported 1Cu. Ft. Net Vs 2Cu. Ft. Net=+2Db, ball parking it.
I'm not sure because you have around 3dB sentitivity potential per doubling of cab volume. So 6dB would be a bit harsh a penalty, for a single driver box with power limits. The advantage of a multi driver box is more power handling, yet similar efficiency to the single driver large box. Also each driver has its size range. A ported is more efficient at low bass in the smaller enclosures, but becomes a one note wonder unless you use more drivers and displacement. Then 6th order and horns/tapped horns take over for better broadband efficiency not just at a port tuning frequency.
@@TimpBizkit yeah, I was making the assumption of doubling the drivers and power. But if you only doubled the drivers and kept the power the same then 3 db would be more accurate
@@blakebrockhaus347 I think ported beat sealed for power density. For very small enclosures, passive radiators at high power levels will have less compression than the long skinny port needed to tune them low if they are small. I can't think of something more power dense than ported, though I've modelled a 6th order that picked up 5-7 dB sensitivity on the mid and upper bass for a 50% increase in size. I'm wondering what a 6th order passive radiator could do, perhaps with two different passive radiator tunings, or a port for the high tuned side with the woofer internal.
In PA territory, Tom Danley talks about the power density of tapped horns, particularly when it comes to driver cost economy, because it is easier to produce tougher drivers with lots of displacement, than large lightweight cone drivers that handle a lot of power and displacement. There are other designs that are sealed and power dense, but not very efficient (Devialet Phantom) and so you have to chuck tons of power at them to beat the small enclosures and consequently heavy cone woofers to lower the resonant frequency.
To design 6th order parallel I usually start with a ported box with a slight hump at tuning (search Chebyshev response) then I stick another chamber with half the volume and double the tuning frequency. I haven't bothered with series tuning. It's hard to get them flat and tuning ports within an enclosure is more difficult because the second chamber changes the tuning, either by putting a "sealed" box in front of the ports, or making a super long port with an expansion chamber in the middle depending on frequency. The response will be slightly rising, but I figured it's the best space economy, especially in a car when cabin gain will pick up the lower notes.
Thank you! I really appreciate what your doing
Fantastic video!!! Love your stuff bro!!! Keep doing what your doing!!!!
Love this show. What a treat to experience this with you!
Listening to the demo tracks I'm thinking it'll be the new leader... commenting as watching.
I have two of these in my theater and is 132db at the listening position with 50 volts to each driver.
I'm glad you finished this
This series is always a win!
Dang.. another good one.. keep up the good work
So cool! Good times!
Dude, you've got to test the SQ darkhorse, Infinite Baffle!
A single scaled 12 isn't gonna do much 😂
@@barevids Which I think is a valuable point to make. It would have a very different response curve from all of the enclosures. Side note, the boom or bust playlist only contains the first 4 episodes.
Let's see that!
@@aosorio3 it's gonna be like 112db lol 😂
I want to see an Infinite Baffle and a Sealed just for the science.
I have two suggestions:
1. Do a sine sweep and find the best operating frequencies for the enclosures
2. See how loud they can get at their best frequencies.
Yes! Finally, I saw this. The Tuba HT has lost decibels in 45hz and gained again in 60hz, why? Only a bass sweep with the graphic of the frequency response can show the real good enclosure.
This reminds me of some classic Pro sub monitors from Vega and Peavey... they would shake your bones at the club!
Saludos desde México, another great episode 💯
this guy in his videos is so cheerful that you tend to forget the engineering thats behind this projects. these days i had in my hands a faital 3fe22 wich i loaded with a "nautilus" bass reflex on a 0.5l enclosure box (loaded to not exceed excursion on his resonant frequency range +-10hz. just to have some fun with the friends. i didnt had my oscilloscope set to 1x measurement but 10x not knowing that i procedeed measuring the frequency response of the driver not at 1w 2v but at 100w 20v. needless to say that my ears got blasted into the shadow realm while my measurement mic placed at 1m picked up 142.5 on a sinusoidal sweep at some point. Have fun thats all that it matters! (btw the driver survived and its still rocking hard on a 2.1 system)
Lmao! 😂😂😂
Love it BRO!!!
When you are talking loud. You need to specify frequency. I would also want to know which is louder. One sub in a massive box or several subs in smaller boxes that equal the same volume. Without going too crazy my frequency target is 20hz. I want that to be very loud, clean and require as little power as possible on a large scale.
Aww hell yea I've been commenting about trying this!
Been waiting for this
Hopefully Sam dose the imperial...
We definitely need to get this channel views up😃 guys share this video with a billion of your close friends 😄
you should make a play list with these test songs so people like me can test our enclosures with it but in full size 😂 👌
I just want a copy of bass can you hear me in a copy as he has it playing
Good job on the designer/submitter (Jeff)... Thats a huge box..however do the the imperial??? Enjoying this series..) tons..
So many variables,(wooffer size,fs,sq, x maxx)the door open vs door closed as an example... Sam ur doing the audio enthusiasts a favor... enjoying this so much...
Im pretty sure this one will do very well
Mad respect for what you doing here, absolutely insane and I love it. However mate, scaling acoustic frequencies and such manner doesn't work towards real life situation. Inherent flaws are vast and run deep in such testing measures. Even in industrial setting with true anechoics and solid structures, scaling in such manner is inherently flawed. It's close but far from truly close. I still think it's badass that you're taking the time to do so because all in all, in a manner it's not far off from the truth how things would be on large scale. But trust me my friend it is far from true reality. Huge fan of your channel love your content no matter what! Cheers,
- Robert
Folded horn designs were the preferred type as u say in pro pa systems.very efficient at of course certain frequencies. Also favoured in the dub reggae scene.memoties of a Jamaican club when dozens of these built with chip board and stacked up.bonquers!!!!
I had six of the full sized THT's, did dub shows with them back in the day.
I do not miss hauling them around!
Whats a better setup nowadays? For mobile dub shows
@@blamuk Hoffman's iron law is unbeatable. You can have low, loud, or a small bin. Pick two.
There are numerous considerations you have to make. How low does it actually need to get, realistically? How loud? Will people actually appreciate the extra low end, or will an absolute slamming kickdrum do? Do you have the packspace? How much power draw can you deal with?
While I loved that system, the packspace and horns being finicky inside venues for placement, along with people not being used to such low distortion in the bass region are reasons I'm looking into a tapped horn setup, while keeping the t39s I have for venues they'll work in. I'll likely endup with keystones myself, but there are plenty of plans around to lookup (ss15 or tham's seem popular and are an ez build) ymmv
Build stuff, experiment, have fun!
@@Endmass I used 60hz in subs too, but after learning to play drums I realized that there is much more to music than just sub-bass. The feeling of the kick drum and bass guitar in the chest is very good!
@@nuen7825 I was told by an old engineer "be sure to have a solid kickdrum, its the cake. Anything lower is frosting"
A cake that's all frosting is a shit cake. The cake itself has to be on point, and you might get away with a bit less frosting.
This still holds true to genres that people think are all sub 60hz. They're not really, especially the harmonics.
@@Endmass I decided that the ported box I could make in the space of a Tuba 24 was much more efficient and handled more power, and the driver cost was not significantly more expensive relative to the output by the time you've forked out for 2 high excursion 10s like 3010lf. 8 cubic feet external you can have 99dB 2.83V 1m flat to 40Hz with an 8 ohm speaker. The Tuba 24 judging by the graphs is rolled off into the low 90s by then. I'm curious as to whether they even up with the V plate and multiples.
Very informative and interesting, thank you 🙏🏽 what sort of equipments/programs do you use for measuring? Looking to learn more
Definitely SPL vs. Box Volume needs to be considered, as we're talking about a car audio environment. It's why I chose to go with two 12s in a sealed box for my car audio build, and just tossed power and DSP at them until I got what I wanted. And because they're sitting in the spare tire well, I still have full use of the trunk space when I want to use it.
Someone needs to submit an 8th order BP design for this project, with the resonance frequencies chosen to be the same or close to, the test frequencies. Should be able to hit at least three of them... 🙂
I think passive radiators win for output from tiny enclosures.
I built its little brother the Tuba 30 for home stereo use with a single 12" (Dayton Reference driver in this case), and I'm not sure I'd build the HT with anything under 15" or possibly a 2x12". Amazingly efficient and clean bass, much more than necessary for my application, but even the Tuba 30 being 30"x30"x18" in my build as opposed to the HT's recommended 48x48x24 takes up a great deal of space and took about $200 in Baltic birch to build even before 2020 spiked wood prices.
Tapped horn for the winn.
I've been waiting for this one.
👏
Wait. I could be categorizing it wrong. Lol
Yes you are, a Tapped horn uses/vents both sides of the cone to atmosphere whereas the one in this video is a front loaded horn & has a sealed section.
@@HashDogg06 i kinda thought i was miscatogorizing it.
But my hope is someone will submit one eventually.
You need an adjustable volume attached to the test chamber to account for the box being tested --
and set gain at the impedence dip -- we can't change our settings when in competition that has multiple tones
That's a good point!
I love these videos! When you do the winner vs. X# drivers in the same space, I think you need to try 2 configurations. 1st is testing the box size to cone area comparison alone, with 15W still driving the 4 subs (typical series parallel.) 2nd one you send the new box the 60w, for people who wonder, "What if I run it at 4 ohm and one sub now, then wire it down as I go." I think some people will go for the most volume for watt approach and spending the money on the lumber for the fancy box is preferred, while others don't mind chasing power issues down the road and would prefer the cone area and wattage per dollar approach and would put box money into high power low impedance amps.
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Really cool series so far!
Fantastic idea! I think I will! 😊
Thank god for no chuffing. Does the change in venue have any effect? If the open door is on the side nearest the wall, wouldn't it load off the wall? I would think that it would get louder the closer you get to the wall until you hit the sweet spot and then you're getting too close to the wall and the volume goes back down. Like how when you have a sub box in the trunk facing backwards it gets louder and quieter depending on if it's towards the front of the trunk or towards the rear of the trunk and there's a sweet spot. In the case of the wall, does it getting louder inside or just outside?
Loaded horn enclosures are the most efficient possible enclosure design ...
You big up an interesting point. Do you think adjusting the test cabin volume to be consistent with the displacement of the speaker enclosure? Would that variable be worth controlling?
Maybe but it would get complicated as the placement of the extra volumes would also affect the scores.
Have you heard of Klipsch speakers? Namely their folded horn design patented in 1946? Nick named the K-Horn, I heard ONE of these back in the 70's driven by a Harman/Kardon Citation 12 power amp at MODERN SOUND in Brick Town NJ. All I can say is WOW!!! Google the history of the Klipsch. Another monster speaker they had on display was the JBL Paragon? It was a huge piece of furniture with two woofers. AH YES! THE 70'S!
Jbl still makes speakers like That. Like the Everest DD66000
I could have tell u the horn loaded would be the loudest that's what we run on our country the most in car audio
This box is the best sounding 1 to date!
If there was an equivalent full size driver, a collab with a cab builder to see the winner full scale would be a cool finale
Would this work with a 12" subwoofer?
Little idea maybe for next season you can order more of these drivers so we can also compare a transmission line or horn enclosure with a bass reflex that has 2 or 4 drivers (which might take up around the same amount of space)
nice cool season. kindly try a tapped horn
i will when one gets submitted!
seeing the "fins" on the output port of this design made me wonder about something. Do you know what a diffuser is on a car an how it works? Would adding fins to the curved areas of the port help to smooth out air/sound and change how it performs
I'd LOVE to see a 3 to 1 4th order "walled" in this set up!
the decaf Astra has a 4 and a half order enclosure as the owner calls it. The cabin area is used as a part of the port.
in the pro audio field, i saw and used these all of the time... usually with 18inch drivers at the smallest
Tuba 60, Titan 48 and DR250
The DR250 is more for amplifying kick and midrange than actual sub bass.
now we need a tiny variant of the BFM T60 PA Sub, but you'll need a room or large van scaled chamber cause they're freaking huge
Or the T-48, T-45, T-39, or the T30! Depends on what you want more- lower or louder.
@@monkeysuncle2816 well yeah, they're all awesome
Great video, so when you had it outside the car, you said i t was really loud but with not even registering on the watt meter. So does that mean, if you wanted efficient, low power sub woofer (but size didn't matter) you could have 1000 watts on a sub in there rather than 4000 watts on 4 subs if you can't upgrade your stock electrics.
Yep, but 1000w across 4 subs would probably still be louder than 1000w into this one... Would depend of course ☺
I’ve been thinking about something with these and wondering if another test may be in order. While the 15 watts may be consistent with those that have enormous amounts of power on tap, since different frequencies are being tested, I wonder what would happen if the amp had the gain/volume set at a consistent point (like how it would be in our cars) and then let it play with whatever the wattage may be with the rise at that frequency. Just curious as to how that may change things up. Thoughts?
It's a good idea. I suggest too measuring the THD and capping the amplifier output where THD exceeds 25%.
15w only scales to 500w lol. That would equate to using a 800-1000w Amp.
Hey Sam, could you tell me a few recent Rockford amp models that are full bridge? Thanks bro
The disadvantage of using 4 of the Basline Box vs the Tuba HT is the need of 4 times of power/amplifiers/$$$ to get a greater result; but the Tuba HT does seem to get the job done for a home application. Now, if one wants to use this model for home theater, one can always use a smaller diameter subwoofer (with great excursion) in order to reduce the box, right?
You are extremely correct. I misses understood...in my prior post. Apologize. So I edited it... to this...efficiencies vs size. All have the pros and cons. X-mass vs spl. At 1W/1M. Not all woofers r the same. Depending on budget... box design or woofer, amplifier selection make a great deal of desired outcomes...
I think on the same 15w the four ported would be louder, but it would be an interesting test!
Agree would be an interesting test. 🤔. Hopefully? Sam does which is a huge box is the imperial. And would like to see a series (unlimited class) power or drivers with a fixed power level.... that could be very interesting. Session 2 two woofers and Session 3 unlimited?
Is it possible to have a frequency response graphic? Thanks
And bass sweep not changing the wattage manually for each predetermined frequency
Im sorry i missed it what is the nominal impedance of the driver? Is it a 4ohm?
New to the channel, any way to get the file to re-create this? And provide driver info?
Can we get any tech specs like overall size and what driver? I may have missed that. I have the plans for the full size tuba
It's the full size tuba scaled uniformly by a factor of 6. See the link in description for details on the driver.
COOOL SERIES!!! TY suggested this and I am impressed good stuff!! can you clean up your mic bro? Your voice sounds muffled compared to other videos. Maybe it's your room? idk sounds
not good. maybe put up sound absorbing foam or make the sound pannel from DIY perks. you can google that. The cost is next to nothing just old towels and starch.
in this video I forgot to plug the mic back in after using the RTA with my PC, so I had to make do with the sound from the camera built in mic. Sorry about that. I only noticed after I finished filming.
🔥🔥🔥🤘
Are plans for any of these available?
So basically at scale for a set of 18"s you have an enclosure you drive. ;D
Waiting on a series 6th .?
Do a sealed box just out of curiosity.
Monster box 😊
It looks like you have too much fun on this channel. I have a 3D printer. Do you offer the print files?
scale spl competitions gotta be a thing. People could get 180dB with 2-4” drivers lol
I agree that you have to take into account how big the box is. Of course that matters. The volume is probably the most important thing, as far as I can tell. I haven't really seen any magical boxes yet and I think that's what everyone is hoping for. My WinISD is on my other computer so I can't run any numbers right now but you can still gain dbs building bigger and bigger boxes up to a certain point and I think that number is pretty high. a 4 cu ft box will be louder than a 2 cu ft box, and a 6 cu ft will be louder then a 4 cu ft box, etc....I'm not sure when that stops being true. Maybe a 12 cu ft box isn't any louder than 10 cu ft box, idk I'm just making up numbers. And I'm just talking ported boxes tuned to the same frequency. And I assume the peak volume for a ported box would be different for every driver.
Agree. Low end tends to favor bigger enclosures. However it also tends to favor spl vs efficiency. Difficult balance. The reason I keep pushing for the imperial is semtrical loading. Don't understand it completely. And an awesome platform to see the experiment.
Headphones on super nice sounding on them lows
W
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can you do these with a 15" scaled driver
In a future season!
I wonder how would passive radiator enclosure do😅
Agree 100% Would be cool if someone models one and the radiator to fit it.
Passive radiators... are similar to ports smaller box with similar output. If u know something that u can share. Please do so. Appreciate learning.
Problem is, a smaller passive radiator might not scale correctly to a larger one. Commercially available small passive radiators are likely tuned far too low. Remember, these are scaled down versions of 12” subwoofer enclosures, and must be tuned very high: a multiple of what the original 12” would be tuned to.
@@djijspeakerguy4628 you are correct. Cone & mass of the passive radiator make a huge difference. I have yet to see anyone explain...also the difference 🤔 this series is not the challenge of passive radiators. Maybe another. Challenge?
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What about a copy of the w7 HO enclosure?
That's a great idea, someone should submit it!
@@barevids Check your email.
@@BaddDukk thanks 😊 I don't know how to or I would.
Didn't one hit 147 earlier?? On the lowest frequency?
I just recognised your email address, you never guess who recommended your services to me in January, Mid Bass distribution (Vibe UK).
I got 5 Vibe concept/Blackbox stereo manufactured from 2003-2009. Two of them packed up in January, I believe there is another one not far behind age wise.
They power up and DO NOT go into protect mode but there is no output from speaker terminals.
Any chance I can post you one for diagnosis?
Sure thing, drop me a message on facebook.com/nsvaudio
plzzzzzz try a paraflex golden formula
Waiting for a submission 😔
Are you're going to design a new box?
I kind of hope that season 2 is the same idea but without the scale frequencies.
That would make no sense whatsoever lol. The frequencies have to be scaled.
@@barevids I guess it does change the idea of the series really, I was thinking more akin to using it like a Bluetooth speaker. I have printed a few boxes and the lowest I could get was 35hz.
@@Ben1551 the only solution that makes sense for those is passive radiators, there's nothing else to try or discover. This channel, and series is about car audio
Yeah man, relative to size matters
I vote for 4x12 test.
Sure, if you use FOUR 12s- and the amps to push them, and the power supply to be able to keep them happy. A better way to describe the THT is that it NEEDS 1/4th as many drivers and 1/4th (or less) of the amps, money for amps, power supply, money for power supply, etc.
Not to mention the fact that it SOUNDS better.
I think the four drivers getting the same 15w total between them would still be louder but it's something I'd love to test! 😊
@@barevids No need to test it, HornResp speaker modeling software will tell you. But even without modeling I can assure they would not be louder with the same 15w. They might be with 15w each.