Thanks for watching everyone! What are your thoughts on Temple? Any other stages you think would be eligible for a video like this? Let me know! -Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock -Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock -Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock
It’s often you hear people complain about large stages like palutinas temple and 75m, but I’ve never heard ppl complain about temple and I guess this is a good reason why
I even hear the 64 versions of Hyrule and Corneria. I know they are different between 64 and melee, but I think of it as a spiritual successor, one that they did much better with
Roy in melee Hyrule Temple's fight club was broken because his counter is strong (up to 3 people near you right) and you could get invisible ceiling glitched and die instantly from his counter.
I would like that a fair bit but I feel like this sort of video would have been the best place for it and I don't think that subject would be able to carry a standalone video particularly well.
Hyrule Temple is my favorite casual stage in smash. The stage maintains tons of different kinds of terrain, without seeming like a chaotic mess. My problem with most large stages in smash is that the main gimmick of the stage is: "Oohhh look at me look how big of a stage I am." Temple manages to take a big stage without making it overwhelming, and I think its a blast to play on.
Exactly. I think the clear example of not doing this is Paluntena’s Temple. The stage can be clearly broke into 4-5 seperate stages (the bridge and FD type platform on the left are the most obvious imo.) instead of feeling like an actual coherent stage. Feels like a kid who just got brawl and just went nuts with the stage builder.
I would love to see a video of the opposite. A much more in depth look at why stages like New Pork City and Palutena Temple are widely hated, even by newer players. Just a suggestion. Awesome video btw, loved it.
I'm no expert, but. New Pork City: The upper left area is poorly integrated with the rest of the map, with some characters being unable to reach it directly from the bottom. Players that end up there tend to stay there until someone dies, and looks for who isn't being fought when they respawn. The right area also invites camping on the upper end, though it is more accessible. Combat definitely tends to concentrate in the pit, occasionally bleeding to the right base area, but tends to not move towards the upper right area or upper left, which usually means That Guy just camps and gets free tempt or spams projectiles. The way combat tends to concentrate also means it's usually unsuited to 8 player smash, since 6 if them are usually fighting in the pit, or on the right shelf at any given time. The limo inevitably kills someone who rides it for fun, then can't get back. Guar Plains: Usually consists of people fighting on the top, and some people trying to get back to the top, occasionally breaking out into smaller skirmishes in the more traversable under areas. Occasionally that one guy who is better than everybody else will lurk down below, picking people off with tricky midair maneuvers. Can create a cool "king of the hill" dynamic, but usually just makes people feel like they spent 60-70% of a game getting to the fight. Also, it's a walk-off, so That Guy is usually camping the blastzone, throwing people off. Great Cave Offensive: Usually consists of people wandering around the stage for like, 5 to 10 minutes, mucking about with chests and minecarts, usually two people end up SDing into lava, and wiping eachother out on the top, then go make sandwiches. Then everyone else eventually decides this has gone on too long, so just goes to the top and plays it like a normal map with walkoffs That Guy camps. The winner is usually the person who noticed people going topside last. Palutena's Temple. Too big. Way, way too big. 8 players can fight and never find eachother. Seriously, this stage might be big enough for 16 player smash. Maybe. Might need more, 32 player smash? I dunno. The lower left tunnels are a horrid space to do anything in, the springs even ruin fightclubs. The lower right is much like the lower stage in Guar Plains; people don't fight there, they move through there getting to the fight, except on this stage, I've seen truces erupt between the two people there at the same time, because they are still so far away. Not always, but this is definitely a place people move through, not fight in. Fights usually break out on the bridge, into the upper fountain. Occasionally the fight will flip to the left of the fountain, but this happens surprisingly rarely. Perhaps out of fear of the awful tunnel section, players seem VERY hesitant to push far to the left, often going out of their way to avoid it. Sometimes someone will still go there, usually to escape, and they'll be hunted down, but again, players seem to agree to a truce to relocate towards the fountain after this. Often, someone will attempt to projectile camp on the far right landing, only to realize that they are too far away, and get dragged back in. Occasionally, if enough people get knocked down at once, a fight will break out here once the transit truce is over. Usually, at somepoint, ,someone will go hide on the upper left area, which will cause someone to go hunt them, and they will be followed by someone else. I have no idea why, it almost always is three people going up there, and usually bleeds into the upper middle, because again, the left side if this map is cursed. Nobody cares about the upper right unless someone lands on it, then they jump down. Basically a non-area. The middle bottom is generally never used. People that fall through the middle instinctively veer to the right. Once in blue moon, someone will actually go into the tunnels. They are almost never followed. They might play on the jump pads a bit, but not even That Guy will camp there. That Guy usually just circle camps the middle top or middle/lower right, or goes to the middle top to throw stuff down, but generally, That Guy can't do much here besides spike people and destroy the bridge. Seriously, something is wrong with the left side of Palutena's Temple, I don't understand it. Maybe the Feung Shuey is off or something, maybe some basic human instinct is at play, literally nobody I've played with likes the left side of Palutena's Temple. Every group I've ever played with ignores that left side like the plague. The only time it sees use is when Amiibo are in play, and they wander there, even then, it's almost exclusively the amiibo dueling there, alone, unless someone sees a pokeball or something.
75m is deceptively small. The only good platform is the top one, which with hazards get ruined by DK. Without hazards, it still risks sharking. The bottom platforms are used for camping, and with 2 players, one has to force the other to go to the bottom, where they’ll get punished for approaching. I think the top platform also has a walkoff, meaning camping at the blastzone, in which case it’s also too low when you’re on the top platform. The right platforms are near-useless as the bottom platforms are better for camping, with the only thing going for it is once again blast zone camping. The right side also gets ruined by DK with hazards.
Damn, you sound like a better advertiser than actual advertisers. Also if you want a competitive counterpart to this I think the Animal Crossing stages are solid options.
I like to see you embracing the real and important casual legacy of Smash Bros! The competitive scene can be so repetitive sometimes, and the casual bits like Hyrule Fight Club are really what made Smash special to so many of us when we started playing, and continue to be important today!
You're right it's even better than Fountain of Dreams lol. th-cam.com/video/XD2Il7Ys0us/w-d-xo.html Also just look at the comments from 5 years ago proving this video correct lol.
As a more casual player of the Smash series, the stage variety might be my favorite part in this series (especially in Ultimate) and this video was excellent! Your videos are so well-edited and your knowledge & passion for each subject shines through each script! I would definitely enjoy more of those stage analysis although as you said, some are so straight-forward that you wouldn't have much to break-down in this format. Although if you need recommendations, here's one I think would be very interesting, Yoshi's Island from Super Smash Bros Melee! This stage is so simple yet is able to create pure chaos and could be seen as the "Baby Park" of the Smash Bros series if you ask me. And it could also open-up the discussion around "walk-outs" in the Smash Bros series! Keep up your amazing work and take care!
Seeing Ganon get timed out by Fox gave me flashbacks growing up to where I had friends who enjoyed playing fast characters like Fox/Marth. They'd get extremely upset if I suggested we picked anything that wasn't Temple. I typically prefer slower characters, so it wasn't fun for me watching them zip around the stage with Fox Side B while I'd try to play catch up. For some reason one of them also insisted on playing with 7 stocks which didn't help matters either, I recall one game taking around a half hour to finish. I understand that this is a beloved stage and I have nostalgia for it too, but I feel like there's a reason I never turned back to playing casual matches after discovering competitive Smash.
This stage is my childhood and also my adulthood. A continuous part of our lives as smash players. But I never really thought about the specifics of why it was great, so this was really quite incredible to watch and ponder. Thanks Mock!
64's Temple: I'm the largest stage in Smash Melee's Temple: No you're not. I am New Pork City: No it's me. Great Cave Offensive: No it's me. Palutena's Temple: Amateurs
I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when I was playing smash with some buddies a few weeks back, we arrived at the conclusion that the four buildings on temple are all historical landmarks. front left is the Blue Mosque of Istanbul, back left is the Parthenon in its original form, back right is the cathedral of Notre Dame, and front right is the Roman Colosseum
My favorite move is playing snake and setting the C4 on the top drop-through platform that leads into the fight club and leading people through that and setting it off when they try dropping down to follow me. Also doing geometry by throwing grenades on different parts of the central slope to hit people in different positions in the fight club. Sometimes at high % the grenades would pop someone up into the planted C4 and I kill them like that. Then it’s the catch me game while I have the lead. And snake can do the reverse Hyrule jump without needing explosives. I’m a goddamn menace on this stage where many people have ragequit and then blocked me. God that’s fun.
absolutely beautiful. you covered everything. can't tell you how many hours of my childhood were spent here. grateful to be someone who started with melee so i've seen this stage grow up with me. just wish you could toggle the untechable stuff in ult :(
Amazing video. I personally love Temple because while it's huge and great as a party stage, unlike the other huge stages it also works incredibly well for one-on-one duels, and that's just insanely impressive design. I remember my friend and I doing Marth v Roy duels on Temple and they'd just be the most epic showdowns.
I remember playing Temple with my dad back in Brawl. I would always play Kirby and all I knew how to do was down B and hope. Then he would beat my ass with that damn fan that you could spam your brains out with. We always played for fun, and we had no idea what we were doing. But you know what, that was fine. We were just there to have fun. Now, as a competitive ultimate player, I can't imagine playing like I did back then, but I can always look back at it and smile. Temple was the only map we ever played on, it really does hold a special place in my heart.
Sector-Z /Corneria can be seen as the precursor of Hyrule Temple. The stage is split into two fighting areas: The top of the ship and the back of the ship. Both separated with the huge wing. The wing also created a wall, which could save novice players. Plus there is the bonus "secret area" on top of the ships gun, which may save people from other players or the airwings ... for a time.
A video of 20 minutes dedicated to the beauty of the SSB map level Hyrule Temple? That’s one thing I’ll watch for sure. It really deserves the highest rank, this is not my first video I have seen about SSB level design ;)
When Smash 4 came out I was in utter awe with the upgraded looked Temple received from Brawl. I spent a while going over with the camera looking at every detail. In brawl, I always thought temple was based off of the Temple of Time from oot. I later learned it wasn’t, but I still like to think it’s the temple of time and takes hints from Zelda 2. Great video btw! The transition in the beginning were really nice, I had to go back and rewatch them since they were just so satisfying.
The tiny island at the bottom is honestly where i had the best memories as a kid. Jumping up when things got hype and i landed a lucky hit on my brother. it wouldn't be the same without it
Very well written video, it perfectly puts the thoughts of many into words. I always found New Pork City to be a decent attempt with two useful sub-areas and one waste of space vs. Temple's three great areas, but the big stages made ever since have missed the mark. Hope there's other stages to make this kind of video on!
10:00 having obstacles that some fighters can jump more easily than others, gives those attributes relevance. Fighters that forfeit mobility for strength or weight absolutely should struggle more with...mobility.
Here's a video idea: "The Disaster That is Great Cave Offensive in Super Smash Bros." Great Cave Offensive is without a doubt the worst Smash stage in the entire series. Some people may argue Pacland, Mario Bros, Hanenbow, Mushroomy Kindom, Palutena's Temple, New Pork City, 75M, among others are worse but none of those stages can even compare to the stage that is Great Cave Offensive. Great Cave Offensive is as if gibberish was a stage. The entire thing is a mess.
That ad review was super engaging! You did AMAZING for a first one, it felt like a part of every one of your vids up to this point if that makes sense? Keep up the great work, awesome channel!!!
It's a real shame that the stages from Melee have shrunk. They're so claustrophobic now, with Corneria by far being the worst. They somehow were a perfect size in Melee which contributed to how they felt so good. Now though that's just the lost and almost entirely ruins the point of having them.
Meanwhile the exact opposite happened for Yoshi’s Story, making it feel much worse because you can’t weave from platform to platform like you could in Melee.
I always called the Hyrule Fight Club “the Death Chamber” with my friends. Even though I know it’s where you go to survive longer by absurdly teching your way through 200+% damage.
There’s no better joy in life than going under the platforms in the upper right corner with Pikachu and just spamming down B while your friends are busy trying to deal with each other on top of them.
I also love this stage because it brought the black hole glitch from all the way back in Melee. Anytime I had at least 2 friends over, we would try and replicate the glitch. We got it once and it was the most amazing thing ever
I remember when I was maybe 13 realizing how much damage you can recover from in the "fight club" in Melee. And so I spent around 30-45 minutes beating up Yoshi to see if I could get it to 999% damage. I did! And I was very proud of myself for doing so. I think I still have the record on my memory card from way back then.
I fucking love Temple. It’s so fun and exciting, and is the sole reason I hold out hope that we’ll one day have another truly great big stage. I don’t really care for any of the other big stages aside from Palutena’s Temple, and that’s still a far cry from the OG Temple’s elegant simplicity.
No one talks about how the redesign of Temple messed things up. The overall size of the stage was decreased and squashed horizontally. Either that, or the size of the characters has been increased. The ramp down into the fight club used to be an area you could use to fight (at least well enough). Now try to fight on it in Smash 4/Ultimate, and the angle of incline is much higher, and there's barely room to roll. Compare the sizes of characters in the old fight club to the newer one. The ceiling is closer to their heads now, and there's less horizontal room. Also, the tower "spike" in the Fight Club became a large, automatic stage spike. In Melee and Brawl it happened, but you had to hit it precisely. Now it seems to "magnetize" people to get spiked and is another reason stocks end so quickly. The Temple redesign is probably my single biggest disappointment from a casual player's perspective. Oh, except for teching. That shit was hype, a real test of skill me and my friends had to practice to get good at surviving, and separated the boys from the men.
For so long, I never understood the reason why Temple was so well-received compared to every other large stage being considered garbage. This video showed me that this stage is designed so that every piece of it works together to make an experience that everyone will remember to this day, while other giant stages find ways to punish newer people.
Hyrule temple is objectively one of the most fun and memorable stages in the series, I'm glad someone finally made a video examining it from a game design standpoint. It always came off to me as a very deliberately and carefully designed map despite the chaotic matches that occur in it, so it's good to see a serious analysis of why it is the way it is.
I think a good stage that might work for this series is Smashville. So clam simple and peaceful like it’s game of origin, perhaps by accident, it became one of the greatest and most balanced stages for competitive play in all of smash history
Temple is one of the only fun 'giant' stages in smash for me. I never thought about why that was, but he articulated what makes this stage so fun to play on casually over many of the others. It's really well designed!
Something that’s always bothered me are those little doors located on top of fight club area by the broken platform. Nobody ever mentions them and I’ve had a fascination with them since I saw them lol.
They seem to be the way into the "dungeon" that was used in Melee's Adventure mode before you fought Zelda on this stage. Where you'd freely explore a bunch of 'battle stages' interconnected with cave tunnels and platform challenges, searching for whichever of the 7 arenas featured the Triforce. At least that has been my headcanon since the age of maybe 9; as the right one on the 'broken' side seems to line up with the spawning area which has a hallway leading to sunlight behind the walkable axis.
Hm. Maybe Saffron City deserves mentioning. Such a fun stage to play that for the most part is pretty fair and it was so disappointing that we had to wait for Ultimate to finally get this stage back. I also think Hyrule Castle should be talked about as well as it's a fantastic stage everyone loved in the original that returned in Melee I believe and as DLC in 4 and returned outright in Ultimate.
I think a video surrounding stages with bosses or destroyable parts like Wily Castle or Shadow Moses could make be interesting. They create a dynamic where you need to fight your enemy while “traversing” the stage in a very unique way.
Excellent content my friend. Great narration, great editing. You are being fair and objective in your opinions. It was as entertaining as it was informative. You have a good narrative energy, and oh yeah, love the intro. Keep up the excellent work. Gonna check out more from you. That's a sub from me :)
Hyrule fight club? Every one calls that the pit. Also, I find it amusing that the top left section was made into a legal stage in PM for a while. As for making things untechable in ultimate, I hate this change and find it utter bullshit. No reason to make that change but ultimate is a game of questionable choices to begin with.
Thanks for watching everyone! What are your thoughts on Temple? Any other stages you think would be eligible for a video like this? Let me know!
-Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock
-Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock
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Bruh I just got the notification and what people commented 2 hours ago
The Bot probably patreon
@@justintorres6491 Those are patrons, they get videos a day early.
@@MrMockRock Nice But I don't have money so R.I.P
I know this may be difficult, but could you do one on Final Destination?
It’s often you hear people complain about large stages like palutinas temple and 75m, but I’ve never heard ppl complain about temple and I guess this is a good reason why
indeed! also, great cave offensive was awful.
pikachu92003 ikr I love bringing ppl to it and making them rage
Palutenas temple is still the 2nd best large stage.
Jared93 i think new pork is better than that
@@Pogitoed nah bro new pork is worse
This stage and Corneria brings me the most nostalgia. I can hear the music even thinking about them.
They are some if not THE greatest stages in the series
I even hear the 64 versions of Hyrule and Corneria. I know they are different between 64 and melee, but I think of it as a spiritual successor, one that they did much better with
Nice Radiohead profile pic
This stage and Rainbow Road for me
God I wish Rainbow Road came back in Ultimate
Great bay and both dk stages
Everyone gangsta until their friend says "Let's go to the Hyrule Temple Pit"
Nothing better than a good round of smash in the hyrule fight club
and you play as zelda, the friend playing as the princess from the zelda game
Roy in melee Hyrule Temple's fight club was broken because his counter is strong (up to 3 people near you right) and you could get invisible ceiling glitched and die instantly from his counter.
I camped as Roy so much in the pit as a kid...
You have a different friend group than I do. We willingly choose this stage and enjoy camping in the pit in four player FFAs in each installment
6:05 this man actually timed out a Ganon on Temple for our viewing pleasure, what a saint
"Saint"
@@LARAUJO_0 the ganon was a CPU. Chill out
he could have just made the ruleset not have much time in it though...
@@knack3381 he wanted to use the most accepted competitive ruleset.
@1998SIMOMEGA tournament rules, lower percent wins.
Maybe you could do the exact opposite of this video in the future? Analyze why 75M and other large stages don't work as well as Temple
Good idea
That'd be interesting. I actually like Gaur Plain though
Gaur plain WiiU- bad
Gaur plain 3ds- amazing
Yes they’re different and holy cow it’s huge
Yes!
I would like that a fair bit but I feel like this sort of video would have been the best place for it and I don't think that subject would be able to carry a standalone video particularly well.
Hyrule Temple is my favorite casual stage in smash. The stage maintains tons of different kinds of terrain, without seeming like a chaotic mess. My problem with most large stages in smash is that the main gimmick of the stage is: "Oohhh look at me look how big of a stage I am." Temple manages to take a big stage without making it overwhelming, and I think its a blast to play on.
Exactly. I think the clear example of not doing this is Paluntena’s Temple. The stage can be clearly broke into 4-5 seperate stages (the bridge and FD type platform on the left are the most obvious imo.) instead of feeling like an actual coherent stage. Feels like a kid who just got brawl and just went nuts with the stage builder.
Or how about 75m?
What's the point of the size if they don't bother putting any *stage* in the space?
That's awesome.
I would love to see a video of the opposite. A much more in depth look at why stages like New Pork City and Palutena Temple are widely hated, even by newer players. Just a suggestion. Awesome video btw, loved it.
I'm no expert, but.
New Pork City: The upper left area is poorly integrated with the rest of the map, with some characters being unable to reach it directly from the bottom.
Players that end up there tend to stay there until someone dies, and looks for who isn't being fought when they respawn.
The right area also invites camping on the upper end, though it is more accessible.
Combat definitely tends to concentrate in the pit, occasionally bleeding to the right base area, but tends to not move towards the upper right area or upper left, which usually means That Guy just camps and gets free tempt or spams projectiles.
The way combat tends to concentrate also means it's usually unsuited to 8 player smash, since 6 if them are usually fighting in the pit, or on the right shelf at any given time.
The limo inevitably kills someone who rides it for fun, then can't get back.
Guar Plains: Usually consists of people fighting on the top, and some people trying to get back to the top, occasionally breaking out into smaller skirmishes in the more traversable under areas. Occasionally that one guy who is better than everybody else will lurk down below, picking people off with tricky midair maneuvers.
Can create a cool "king of the hill" dynamic, but usually just makes people feel like they spent 60-70% of a game getting to the fight.
Also, it's a walk-off, so That Guy is usually camping the blastzone, throwing people off.
Great Cave Offensive: Usually consists of people wandering around the stage for like, 5 to 10 minutes, mucking about with chests and minecarts, usually two people end up SDing into lava, and wiping eachother out on the top, then go make sandwiches. Then everyone else eventually decides this has gone on too long, so just goes to the top and plays it like a normal map with walkoffs That Guy camps. The winner is usually the person who noticed people going topside last.
Palutena's Temple.
Too big. Way, way too big. 8 players can fight and never find eachother. Seriously, this stage might be big enough for 16 player smash. Maybe. Might need more, 32 player smash? I dunno.
The lower left tunnels are a horrid space to do anything in, the springs even ruin fightclubs.
The lower right is much like the lower stage in Guar Plains; people don't fight there, they move through there getting to the fight, except on this stage, I've seen truces erupt between the two people there at the same time, because they are still so far away. Not always, but this is definitely a place people move through, not fight in.
Fights usually break out on the bridge, into the upper fountain. Occasionally the fight will flip to the left of the fountain, but this happens surprisingly rarely. Perhaps out of fear of the awful tunnel section, players seem VERY hesitant to push far to the left, often going out of their way to avoid it. Sometimes someone will still go there, usually to escape, and they'll be hunted down, but again, players seem to agree to a truce to relocate towards the fountain after this. Often, someone will attempt to projectile camp on the far right landing, only to realize that they are too far away, and get dragged back in. Occasionally, if enough people get knocked down at once, a fight will break out here once the transit truce is over.
Usually, at somepoint, ,someone will go hide on the upper left area, which will cause someone to go hunt them, and they will be followed by someone else. I have no idea why, it almost always is three people going up there, and usually bleeds into the upper middle, because again, the left side if this map is cursed.
Nobody cares about the upper right unless someone lands on it, then they jump down. Basically a non-area.
The middle bottom is generally never used. People that fall through the middle instinctively veer to the right.
Once in blue moon, someone will actually go into the tunnels. They are almost never followed. They might play on the jump pads a bit, but not even That Guy will camp there.
That Guy usually just circle camps the middle top or middle/lower right, or goes to the middle top to throw stuff down, but generally, That Guy can't do much here besides spike people and destroy the bridge.
Seriously, something is wrong with the left side of Palutena's Temple, I don't understand it. Maybe the Feung Shuey is off or something, maybe some basic human instinct is at play, literally nobody I've played with likes the left side of Palutena's Temple.
Every group I've ever played with ignores that left side like the plague. The only time it sees use is when Amiibo are in play, and they wander there, even then, it's almost exclusively the amiibo dueling there, alone, unless someone sees a pokeball or something.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 👏👏👏👏
75m is deceptively small. The only good platform is the top one, which with hazards get ruined by DK. Without hazards, it still risks sharking. The bottom platforms are used for camping, and with 2 players, one has to force the other to go to the bottom, where they’ll get punished for approaching. I think the top platform also has a walkoff, meaning camping at the blastzone, in which case it’s also too low when you’re on the top platform. The right platforms are near-useless as the bottom platforms are better for camping, with the only thing going for it is once again blast zone camping. The right side also gets ruined by DK with hazards.
New Pork City is leagues better than stages like Palutena’s Temple and 75m imo
Temple is the wet dream of the "who can x on x stage" channels
"whO cAN mAkE THe TEmplE juMp?"
@@Succer "ReVeRsE tEmPlE jUmP!?!!? wHo CaN mAkE iT??!?"
No, stage builder was. So many who can do x challenge I just made up on this stage I created specifically for this purpose?
To be fair, those kinds of challenges are the closest thing we have to break the targets now.
@@intensellylit4100 yh also that
Damn, you sound like a better advertiser than actual advertisers.
Also if you want a competitive counterpart to this I think the Animal Crossing stages are solid options.
Robert Thorburn probably SV
@@willdg8108 Town and City could work too tho.
@@Ivy64_ smashville is way more iconic/competitively fair
@@willdg8108 true
Money talks
I like to see you embracing the real and important casual legacy of Smash Bros! The competitive scene can be so repetitive sometimes, and the casual bits like Hyrule Fight Club are really what made Smash special to so many of us when we started playing, and continue to be important today!
This stage has one of the best music ever in smash history
Together we ride is a great track, too bad we cant use it in ultimate.
@@Klonoahedgehog yes you can. It's called "Story 5 Meeting"
@@nekoblue77 I mean on Hyrule temple.
You're right it's even better than Fountain of Dreams lol.
th-cam.com/video/XD2Il7Ys0us/w-d-xo.html
Also just look at the comments from 5 years ago proving this video correct lol.
Yeah brawls temple is fire
As a more casual player of the Smash series, the stage variety might be my favorite part in this series (especially in Ultimate) and this video was excellent! Your videos are so well-edited and your knowledge & passion for each subject shines through each script! I would definitely enjoy more of those stage analysis although as you said, some are so straight-forward that you wouldn't have much to break-down in this format.
Although if you need recommendations, here's one I think would be very interesting, Yoshi's Island from Super Smash Bros Melee! This stage is so simple yet is able to create pure chaos and could be seen as the "Baby Park" of the Smash Bros series if you ask me. And it could also open-up the discussion around "walk-outs" in the Smash Bros series!
Keep up your amazing work and take care!
That was easily the best sponsor promo I've heard
Clearly you never heard Jay Foreman's skillshare song
Little Z's sponsors are the best imo
Naah commentetiquette is by far the best
Jreg.
Seeing Ganon get timed out by Fox gave me flashbacks growing up to where I had friends who enjoyed playing fast characters like Fox/Marth. They'd get extremely upset if I suggested we picked anything that wasn't Temple. I typically prefer slower characters, so it wasn't fun for me watching them zip around the stage with Fox Side B while I'd try to play catch up. For some reason one of them also insisted on playing with 7 stocks which didn't help matters either, I recall one game taking around a half hour to finish.
I understand that this is a beloved stage and I have nostalgia for it too, but I feel like there's a reason I never turned back to playing casual matches after discovering competitive Smash.
MockRock brought back the announcer voice for the sponsor!
This stage is my childhood and also my adulthood. A continuous part of our lives as smash players. But I never really thought about the specifics of why it was great, so this was really quite incredible to watch and ponder. Thanks Mock!
64's Temple: I'm the largest stage in Smash
Melee's Temple: No you're not. I am
New Pork City: No it's me.
Great Cave Offensive: No it's me.
Palutena's Temple: Amateurs
GCO is bigger than Palutena’s
Except the last 3 all sucked. (Granted I think Newpork is alright without the chimera)
Sector Z was bigger than 64 Castle
CosmicToad5000 Don’t disrespect GCO boy
Palu temple is fun sometimes, if you gentleman to one area
I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when I was playing smash with some buddies a few weeks back, we arrived at the conclusion that the four buildings on temple are all historical landmarks. front left is the Blue Mosque of Istanbul, back left is the Parthenon in its original form, back right is the cathedral of Notre Dame, and front right is the Roman Colosseum
15:18
"Snuffed Out" Synched with the dimming lights on stage, to create a grim ambiance.
Intentional or not, nice.
My favorite move is playing snake and setting the C4 on the top drop-through platform that leads into the fight club and leading people through that and setting it off when they try dropping down to follow me. Also doing geometry by throwing grenades on different parts of the central slope to hit people in different positions in the fight club. Sometimes at high % the grenades would pop someone up into the planted C4 and I kill them like that. Then it’s the catch me game while I have the lead. And snake can do the reverse Hyrule jump without needing explosives. I’m a goddamn menace on this stage where many people have ragequit and then blocked me. God that’s fun.
My expectations were blown right out of the waters of the Great Bay. Bravo.
absolutely beautiful. you covered everything. can't tell you how many hours of my childhood were spent here. grateful to be someone who started with melee so i've seen this stage grow up with me. just wish you could toggle the untechable stuff in ult :(
Excellently put. Temple always has good, intense battles no matter the skill level. Nice ad, by the way!
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Competitive analysis of casual Smash is lowkey one of the best things. I love to see it every time.
my favorite stage in brawl because there’s so many places to fight
bet that’s what this video’s about
Watching that MK glide the entire stage was disgustingly beautiful, thank you
Happy to see one of my favourite youtubers get a sponsor, happy for you main
also it was kinda hilarious :)
I love the Shantae music when you were describing the layout of the stage. You got good taste!
Amazing video. I personally love Temple because while it's huge and great as a party stage, unlike the other huge stages it also works incredibly well for one-on-one duels, and that's just insanely impressive design. I remember my friend and I doing Marth v Roy duels on Temple and they'd just be the most epic showdowns.
I remember playing Temple with my dad back in Brawl. I would always play Kirby and all I knew how to do was down B and hope. Then he would beat my ass with that damn fan that you could spam your brains out with. We always played for fun, and we had no idea what we were doing. But you know what, that was fine. We were just there to have fun. Now, as a competitive ultimate player, I can't imagine playing like I did back then, but I can always look back at it and smile. Temple was the only map we ever played on, it really does hold a special place in my heart.
Never thought about it that way! The amount of depth in your videos is insane.
Temple was the first map I ever played on in brawl, it’ll always hold a special place in my heart
In arenas temple is selected 97% of the time. Its my favorite stage
Sector-Z /Corneria can be seen as the precursor of Hyrule Temple. The stage is split into two fighting areas: The top of the ship and the back of the ship. Both separated with the huge wing. The wing also created a wall, which could save novice players. Plus there is the bonus "secret area" on top of the ships gun, which may save people from other players or the airwings ... for a time.
How could your editing be so good, yet so underappreciated? Like this is REALLY good editing!
A video of 20 minutes dedicated to the beauty of the SSB map level Hyrule Temple? That’s one thing I’ll watch for sure. It really deserves the highest rank, this is not my first video I have seen about SSB level design ;)
My friends and I would almost always play this stage in Melee and Brawl. Those were the days. Nostalgia really hit me watching this video.
Great video MockRock. I love Hyrule Temple. One of my favorite stages ever.
Temple is such a fun and amazing stage in my opinion even when being a competitive player.
Every competitive player hates getting times out on that stage though. :/
When Smash 4 came out I was in utter awe with the upgraded looked Temple received from Brawl. I spent a while going over with the camera looking at every detail. In brawl, I always thought temple was based off of the Temple of Time from oot. I later learned it wasn’t, but I still like to think it’s the temple of time and takes hints from Zelda 2. Great video btw! The transition in the beginning were really nice, I had to go back and rewatch them since they were just so satisfying.
I was soo ready to hear Raid: Shadow Legends at 0:58
It ends 1:50 btw
The tiny island at the bottom is honestly where i had the best memories as a kid.
Jumping up when things got hype and i landed a lucky hit on my brother.
it wouldn't be the same without it
Very well written video, it perfectly puts the thoughts of many into words. I always found New Pork City to be a decent attempt with two useful sub-areas and one waste of space vs. Temple's three great areas, but the big stages made ever since have missed the mark. Hope there's other stages to make this kind of video on!
10:00 having obstacles that some fighters can jump more easily than others, gives those attributes relevance. Fighters that forfeit mobility for strength or weight absolutely should struggle more with...mobility.
For me, I put me and my friends damage to 300% and try to get each other 999% without dying. 10 stocks. Any character. Try it, it's actually fun
Literally teared up at the end good job mock rock
For some reason youtube was displaying this as 10 hours long and I was so ready for that
Here's a video idea: "The Disaster That is Great Cave Offensive in Super Smash Bros."
Great Cave Offensive is without a doubt the worst Smash stage in the entire series. Some people may argue Pacland, Mario Bros, Hanenbow, Mushroomy Kindom, Palutena's Temple, New Pork City, 75M, among others are worse but none of those stages can even compare to the stage that is Great Cave Offensive. Great Cave Offensive is as if gibberish was a stage. The entire thing is a mess.
That ad review was super engaging! You did AMAZING for a first one, it felt like a part of every one of your vids up to this point if that makes sense? Keep up the great work, awesome channel!!!
It's a real shame that the stages from Melee have shrunk. They're so claustrophobic now, with Corneria by far being the worst. They somehow were a perfect size in Melee which contributed to how they felt so good. Now though that's just the lost and almost entirely ruins the point of having them.
Meanwhile the exact opposite happened for Yoshi’s Story, making it feel much worse because you can’t weave from platform to platform like you could in Melee.
Im so glad someone made a video about this map. I remember seeing it for the first time in a walmart and being so amazed by the size and detail
I always called the Hyrule Fight Club “the Death Chamber” with my friends. Even though I know it’s where you go to survive longer by absurdly teching your way through 200+% damage.
Ya damn right Knuckles
There’s no better joy in life than going under the platforms in the upper right corner with Pikachu and just spamming down B while your friends are busy trying to deal with each other on top of them.
So many memories of this stage are of my friends and I repeatedly replicating the Black Hole glitch! Anyone else remember trying this too?
As someone who loves making fun custom stages in ultimate. This video is a dream come true for me
We need more Stage videos like this.
I also love this stage because it brought the black hole glitch from all the way back in Melee. Anytime I had at least 2 friends over, we would try and replicate the glitch. We got it once and it was the most amazing thing ever
This is a good video series idea. I like the way you analyse stages, I don't see many videos doing that.
I remember when I was maybe 13 realizing how much damage you can recover from in the "fight club" in Melee. And so I spent around 30-45 minutes beating up Yoshi to see if I could get it to 999% damage. I did! And I was very proud of myself for doing so. I think I still have the record on my memory card from way back then.
I fucking love Temple. It’s so fun and exciting, and is the sole reason I hold out hope that we’ll one day have another truly great big stage. I don’t really care for any of the other big stages aside from Palutena’s Temple, and that’s still a far cry from the OG Temple’s elegant simplicity.
Funny, I always called the bottom pit the "doom room".
No one talks about how the redesign of Temple messed things up. The overall size of the stage was decreased and squashed horizontally. Either that, or the size of the characters has been increased. The ramp down into the fight club used to be an area you could use to fight (at least well enough). Now try to fight on it in Smash 4/Ultimate, and the angle of incline is much higher, and there's barely room to roll. Compare the sizes of characters in the old fight club to the newer one. The ceiling is closer to their heads now, and there's less horizontal room.
Also, the tower "spike" in the Fight Club became a large, automatic stage spike. In Melee and Brawl it happened, but you had to hit it precisely. Now it seems to "magnetize" people to get spiked and is another reason stocks end so quickly.
The Temple redesign is probably my single biggest disappointment from a casual player's perspective. Oh, except for teching. That shit was hype, a real test of skill me and my friends had to practice to get good at surviving, and separated the boys from the men.
"This video is sponsored by" is now a ptsd trigger word for me
Thanks raid shadow legends
For so long, I never understood the reason why Temple was so well-received compared to every other large stage being considered garbage. This video showed me that this stage is designed so that every piece of it works together to make an experience that everyone will remember to this day, while other giant stages find ways to punish newer people.
Hyrule temple is objectively one of the most fun and memorable stages in the series, I'm glad someone finally made a video examining it from a game design standpoint. It always came off to me as a very deliberately and carefully designed map despite the chaotic matches that occur in it, so it's good to see a serious analysis of why it is the way it is.
Instant sub. I don't think I've ever come a across a Smash Bros. channel like this.
I can practically taste the childhood memories and happiness. Great video!
Today is my birthday, and I’m so glad this was uploaded because this is one of my most favorite stages
Happy birthday!
MockRock thank you!
The music on this stage as well is legendary. Great job with this video
You should make more content like this. I really enjoy these types of deep dives.
I think a good stage that might work for this series is Smashville. So clam simple and peaceful like it’s game of origin, perhaps by accident, it became one of the greatest and most balanced stages for competitive play in all of smash history
Congrats on the first ad read! sounded great!
Temple is one of the only fun 'giant' stages in smash for me. I never thought about why that was, but he articulated what makes this stage so fun to play on casually over many of the others. It's really well designed!
Is everyone going to ignore that temple also has an absolute banger of background song?
Eli Smith
Yeah it’s funny he didn’t mention that.
The default Melee Temple music definitely makes it feel more engaging
Also a badass alternate theme when you unlock fire emblem characters
Something that’s always bothered me are those little doors located on top of fight club area by the broken platform. Nobody ever mentions them and I’ve had a fascination with them since I saw them lol.
They seem to be the way into the "dungeon" that was used in Melee's Adventure mode before you fought Zelda on this stage. Where you'd freely explore a bunch of 'battle stages' interconnected with cave tunnels and platform challenges, searching for whichever of the 7 arenas featured the Triforce.
At least that has been my headcanon since the age of maybe 9; as the right one on the 'broken' side seems to line up with the spawning area which has a hallway leading to sunlight behind the walkable axis.
All this plus the music. Temple theme is just ear bliss.
Promotion Skip Button: 1:57
If only Corneria wasn’t one tenth of the size as it was in its debut game it would be great too…
Great Video, Great Content, Great Edit! Keep it up!
Competitive smash players: no item, fox only, final destination
Casual, aka me 10 years ago: FULL ITEM, FALCON ONLY, HYRULE TEMPLE!!!!
6:50 this shit is way funnier than it should be 😂😂😂
Yess you finally got a sponsor defiantly checking it out
Haha, appreciate it!
@@jolpflgivck5625 cool I'm downloading it rn
Ok but nothing holds up better than the beautiful stage that is New Pork City
Hm. Maybe Saffron City deserves mentioning. Such a fun stage to play that for the most part is pretty fair and it was so disappointing that we had to wait for Ultimate to finally get this stage back.
I also think Hyrule Castle should be talked about as well as it's a fantastic stage everyone loved in the original that returned in Melee I believe and as DLC in 4 and returned outright in Ultimate.
Your intro is more addictive than crack, honestly.
I think a video surrounding stages with bosses or destroyable parts like Wily Castle or Shadow Moses could make be interesting. They create a dynamic where you need to fight your enemy while “traversing” the stage in a very unique way.
meanwhile if this is taken to the extreme like with icicle mountain or rumble falls...
Awesome video! the editing is amazing as well as the story telling! glad to hear you are getting sponsorships too! First video but definitely subbing
Hey thanks, I appreciate that!
Its primary music track being one of the most beautiful songs in the series is definitely another point in its favor.
Excellent content my friend. Great narration, great editing. You are being fair and objective in your opinions. It was as entertaining as it was informative. You have a good narrative energy, and oh yeah, love the intro.
Keep up the excellent work. Gonna check out more from you. That's a sub from me :)
Only video I’ve ever seen from you and I had to subscribe. Great video!
This was the only stage my friend and I would play in brawl. It wasn’t until way later that I even knew what the other options were.
I'm glad you like Temple :) I have only heard negative opinions of it outside of my family, but everyone in my family loves it!
This was awesome! I’d love to see more deep dives on specific elements of smash. Character, stages, mechanics, etc
My man really uploaded an 18 minute video analyzing the best stage in the game
I almost always chose this stage in brawl online and would just chill out with friendly people and / or roleplay lmao
Amazing video. Also whenever I see brawl wolf my mind just goes "RAWWUUULL"
Hyrule fight club? Every one calls that the pit. Also, I find it amusing that the top left section was made into a legal stage in PM for a while. As for making things untechable in ultimate, I hate this change and find it utter bullshit. No reason to make that change but ultimate is a game of questionable choices to begin with.
There were untechables in Smash 4 too
And that is still bad.
Untechables are good.
I always called it “the place of no death”
My friends call hyrule fight club the cave of life as it’s so hard to kill anyone in such an enclosed area
I normally skip the ads, but your voice made me watch the whole thing lmao