The Top 10 OVERRATED Attacks in Smash Ultimate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2021
- Get a discount on Ekster's excellent products: shop.ekster.com/mockrock | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has a lot of incredible moves, but sometimes they're a little less incredible than people tend to think. Today let's dive into some of those moves that, while not necessarily bad, still have significant flaws that don't always get the attention they deserve.
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Get a discount on Ekster's excellent products: shop.ekster.com/mockrock | Thanks for watching everyone! This was an interesting format to work with, overrated moves are a lot less common than underrated ones in my experience, so let me know what you thought, as well as any moves you'd like to see in the future.
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Hi mockrock!
@@redsandslashgaming7513 Hi!
Hello
This list was nice. Thank You for asking. :).
I honestly think Joker grappling hook is overrated due to the easy dodge and VERY specific hitbox
"Pit's Nair is bad!" *Shows it getting beaten out by Link Nair, the move that could clank with a battleship and be fine lol*
Ok I also have to say: Mii Brawler players are... WELL aware that feint jump is the Luigi to Flipkick's Mario. We get it. We're just trying our best, mockrock, please
Link nair is probably the best nair in the game, can you blame it for losing to it? I certainly can't. xD
A 0.1% trade would be preferable here but you can't even get that against Link N-air unlike normal
I'm very surprised Pit Nair made it into the list. I thought everyone knew it wasn't great
False
“Pit and Dark Pit can’t punish Fire at all.”
Does it ever end for those two?
I've been a pit main since brawl and I can confirm that it's a real struggle sometimes just getting there moves to work
No 😔
Actually could their arrows punish it?
@@Tr0lliPop no it's to slow
@@4bernadettatm17 bruh. A literal magical bow is not fast enough
now for the finale: top 10 mid moves people sometimes talk about
Lmao genius
Ness jab
Yes, Steve’s minecart IS reactable.
It’s also: a recovery move, a kill move, mobility option, projectile, command grab, techchase, and edgeguarding tool.
Yeah with the results of the most recent invitationals, saying minecart isn’t that amazing is kind of a joke at this point. 90% of Steve neutral at the top level comes down to building a wall, mining, punishing the opponent if they carelessly approach, if the opponent doesn’t approach then u full hop into side b, then as soon as the opponent jumps over minecart, the Steve jumps and back airs the opponent. And if they have diamond that shits killing absurdly early. And it’s all border line unpunishable, so the Steve just rinses and repeats. Usually only Steve’s using stall tactics constantly do this tho
It’s also on the only character in the game THAT CAN HITSTUN CANCEL
@@Schrodingers_douchebag I mean, that fact wasn't yet widely known at the time though.
@@Kirbman I know. It still makes him more broken tho
I’m really liking how you’re using advanced terms while also explaining what they mean in a way that makes it easier for new players to understand what’s going on without feeling like they are being babied.
A big thing he does is make sure that what he's talking about is backed up with relevant gameplay so you can SEE it too. Some content creators just slap footage of a random tournament match on and call it a day
While arsene's down air might be overrated, I think joker's down air without arsene is underrated, it's quite easy to hit off stage and sends at an angle most characters can't recover from but most people don't care about it just because it's a down air that doesn't spike
That's one I can agree with, idk how "underrated" it truly can be at this point because people generally understand that Joker's kit is busted haha, but dair does all that and also has some very nice combo potential.
It can even kill
@@MrMockRock i know this might sound stupid but i think joker without arsene is kinda underrated
Also awesome videos man you're pretty underrated
@@justaraptor8992 You're right, that does sound stupid
Mock Rocks intro is like that of a good show, looks and sounds cool enough that I never skip it even though I seen it 100 times before
Fuego
It's short enough. It's still weird to have intros on TH-cam videos though, and most don't. Still a nice intro.
Breaking bad
It's pretty quick, catchy, and well-made. Same can be said for RelaxAlax, Game Grumps, and WolfeyVGC to name a few
Yeah, me too
Another BIG thing about the Belmont's Holy Water, is that you can grab it, half the time even unintentionally. Imagine giving your opponent a better combo tool just because they used an aerial
Tfw you played Joker for 2 years and only now learned about Arsène's spike being techable on stage
true but to be fair absolutely NOBODY tries to tech it so we wouldn't know until it actually happens
@@rinn5238 yeah most people just assume they're done for when Arsène lands his down air
@@bobert221 lol yeah not one person i played in the 2 and a half years of maining joker teched my dair
I think this video also shows how well balanced the game is. These moves are strong but not perfect
Can I remind you of that fact that Palutena exists aka accidentally turning a zoner into a rush down character
Yeah...except for Pit nair, which is not balanced properly at all.
@@plompedu and Snake, who will zone tf out of you, but if you get close to him, his close range arsenal is like one of the best in the game
"Well balanced" Quickplay would like to have a word with you
@@albertthepeacock8020Quickplay is not real Smash
I'm not hating here but G&W up special is not ***practically*** punishable by every character. You can technically, but its more of a read than something reactable. If you even slightly mistime it youll be the one getting punished. Those sorts of videos showing you how to do it are done in a vacuum and don't mean much in a dynamic, high stakes match
To quote Nairo "Game and Watch is definitely not as good as people think he is. Sure, his up B is insane, but it has a good amount of lag. You can bait out his up B and then jump up and punish it with a lot of characters, it just looks worse since it's harder to react to online, which is good for Palutena because her up air is so strong and game and watch is so light."
Once you consider that, risk reward is a factor, and missing against some characters can lead to losing very fast stocks for GW.
@@Endershock1678 "just bait out his up b" is assuming you can summon a mistake from the opponent by somehow forcing an option they can usually use on reaction.
I love nairo but that take is absolute doo-doo , and shows that he hasn't played against maister anytime recently
@@RamikinHorde Baiting out Up-B's is extremely easy to do unless you're playing against a god like Maister. Because of how safe many buttons are, often times he'll have to immediately anticipate and react, you can easily bait it out through simple conditioning. It's literally what almost every pro player tells you to do to beat GW (I think Marss and Tweek said the same thing in one of their tier list videos). It's why I've personally never struggled against Game and Watch, because I bait it out then follow up with ROB's up air, which is crazy strong and makes the risk reward far too high for GW to spam.
For pete sake, Nairo could anticipate and punish ONLINE, you have no excuse offline.
Well if you’re bad then yes, it’s unpunishable just like Zeldas special moves you just need to learn the timings I don’t have problems with g&w or Zelda but min min, mythra are degenerate and if you play yoshi then you must be out of apple juice Timmy
I think the key point being made here is that it's still a great move, just not invincible --as he says, not the 'get out of jail free card' people tend to think it is. If you over-rely on it, people will notice and have at least the capacity to punish it, just like overusing any one reaction or tactic.
Yeah mythra's aerials are less safe than other swordies aerials but mythra does not play like a traditional swordie, unlike the traditional swordie where they try to space their aerials, mythra on the other hand actually prefers to cross up on shields with her aerials Also mythra is like probably the only swordie that is the hit and run archetype (I still agree that mythra's aerials are overrated though)
"Also mythra is like probably the only swordie that is the hit and run archetype"
when i think about it, that might actually be correct. most swordfighters hit hard enough that running is not necessary, and even if not, spacing tends to deal with that (even roy, who is punished for spacing, wants to stay in your face as long as possible)
@@Underworlder5 true
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 wdym?
Yeah but mythra’s stupid and Pyra is better so don’t even play mythra
yeah i completely agree, and also despite her relatively poor range, she can easily do a retreating fair or bair on shield and drift out of range due to her incredible air speed/ acceleration
Appreciate the shout-out!!
My video is to show what's possible.
Punishing the UPB in a real match comes from baiting it and being ready to punish it.
Some characters have an easier time doing it than others!!
Haha, yeah, like many thing I think the reality won't always quite live up to the theory, but it's still an excellent demonstration, thanks for stopping by!
8:16
It… does work. If you’re expecting them to SDI out, you simply aim the F-smash upwards.
While I agree with Ganondorfs Nair being here, one thing I'd like to say is it does not whiff on ALL grounded opponents. It hits incineroar (I main him). It also hits Ganondorf himself, and likely others. Also if you fast fall for the second hit, it can hit most characters.
Gonna have to disagree on the game and watch up b segment. Each time you showed someone punishing G & W up special it was when they were standing next to each other with the punisher shielding against G & W. Now I don't play in tournaments, but I can't think that this would be a scenario that would happen to often, and even then, why would he up special there? Great content as usual man.
Even the strongest weapon is useless when used incorrectly.
I think that scenario is more common than you think.
The most common reason for it is that the G&W was trying to punish something out of shield, but was a little too slow or didn't realize that it was a safe move that gave the attacker time to shield, resulting in a whiffed Fire.
And honestly, sometimes I've used it instead of grabbing (when I'm shielding next to a shielding opponent) just out of fear, knowing it's less likely to be punished than if I grabbed but missed.
And if the opponent has something that beats DK Jr (G&W down air), there's also the problem of G&W now needing to land.
I was thinking the same thing; notice how in every clip of Maister he shows after that, the opponent is either in landing lag, or otherwise not shielding.
I think it's to represent the opponent baiting the Fire by landing and shielding instead of aerial on shield.
1:43 hey that’s me, glad to be in this great video, definitely a good birthday present
Minecart is absolutely broken. It's a low-risk projectile that is safe on shield, can be jumped out of, kills incredibly early, IS A COMMAND GRAB, sets up for combos and kill confirms (and remember it's steve so combo means 70% and kill confirm means kills you at 50%), pressures (corner, forces a jump, etc), is a movement option, destroyes other projectiles with TDM (a steve tech), and as a bonus has hp on the cart and a small amount of heavy armour on steve. Also, it only costs extra resources if you do it on the ground so most steves will do it out of shorthop (grounded cart becomes a nice mixup). It's basically just a better monkey flip and is IMO easily the best side b in the game. Is it steve's entire neutral? no. can it be punished? sure if the steve spams it unsafely or the opponent gets a read, but it's still an amazing option.
It's so refreshing listening to someone who actually understands the meaning of "overrated" and "underrated". I swear so many people use them interchangeably with "bad" and "good".
The rob nair bit seems very reminiscent of esam in smash 4 telling me to "just powershield zss nair"
Granted that had a pretty consistent setup thanks to crouching but it was still unrealistic to do the majority of the time.
I absolutely want a 2nd one of these, specifically for one move: Gravitational Pull (Rosalina ↓B). As a Rosalina main, I often find that when anyone with a projectile, especially item projectiles, asks for advice on the matchup, they think GP is unbeatable. But as a move that has you stand still with no hitboxes for 50 frames, that's untrue. The move really can only hit the person who fired the proectile if it's fired above Rosalina and they can time it perfectly so it swoops around and hits them, but most characters would probably throw out another hitbox by then unless it was a particularly laggy or particularly fast projectile. In fact, basically the only use case is for an airstall offstage. Combine that with the fact that this move meant to neutralize projectiles strangely doesn't interact with some moves that other reflectors do, namely Full Charged Failnaught (Byleth •B), and the fact it does nothing to protect Luma at all... People don't think it's an amazing move, but Rosalina mains consider it garbage in a similar manner Yoshi mains view their side B, in that it has one niche application, and otherwise is almost better to not have it to avoid dying to a misinput giving you an extreme amount of lag
I was about to write the same. GP is highly overrated by people who don't know how to use or fight against rosalina. And the fact that Rosa is a very uncommon character helps a lot to maintain this misconception.
> The move is by far the worst anti projectile in the entire game. Most of the time you have no rewards using it. Even shielding, clashing or avoiding the projectile is more optimal most of the time.
> it is very hard to use the projectile you just pulled against your opponent. Like really really hard.
> if you manage to use the projectile you just pulled against your opponent and the projectile works like a bomb, it won't explode (snake side b, some hero spells, villager side b, Isabelle down b, etc)
> the animation is longer than the actual active frames. You can get baited to use it and then get punished.
> the move has enough ending and startup lag to not be very good at dealing with various projectiles at the same time. Characters like the Belmonts, ylink or Samus can easily spam tons of projectiles and see how Gravitational pull struggles a lot.
> the move is extremely good against items, but just a few characters have items in their movesets
> Rosalina is tall and Luma don't have defensive options. Projectiles and disjoints really hurt her playstyle and GP isn't nearly enough to deal with them. Often rosa mains recommend to lunar landing back air to clash Luma with the projectile while rosa tries to punish the opponent. That's a better option than just press down b
> Rosa is a very technical character and often many of her moves are useful to perform advanced techniques. Even in that way GP is useless
> the only time I use GP is when I'm too lazy to avoid a projectile and I'm far enough to not be punished.
That move seriously needs a buff.
What about items?
@@mekhiwatkins1535 Item projectiles get pulled into the hand, but at the ranges that someone would throw them, GP is punishable. And if you mean items in casual, then that's kinda not where this video is looking
I didn't realize anyone thought GP was good at all. It's so slow with so little reward. You might as well use shield, it's much faster with the same effect.
@@SP_Sour Yeah, basically. But no, in the rosalina discord many people who come in asking for advice VS us as a character with projectiles mention GP. I've also seen a lot of people who play neither character say that Rosalina does good against the Belmonts because of the move
“Rolling in is a way to avoid any minecart follow ups” so he gets out before he hits you and down airs
Hot take: Palutena's nair is a serious candidate for this list. Prepatch it became one of Ultimate's meme broken moves, but post-patch it's much less viable of a kill tool, people have gotten better at DI and SDI to limit nair trains, and it's relatively unsafe on shield. Casual players still often consider it among the best aerials in the game but it's only her third best aerial after bair and fair (the latter of which has also been nerfed).
i'd argue up-air is also better than nair given how good of a juggle and kill move it is
Her nair drops more often for me than Pit’s does. And I play both (or all three) quite often.
One question how do you sdi and di just asking
@@SaBasAbA-dn1xh di stands for directional input which is you deciding what way does your character goes while being a combo or while in free fall so all you do is point the joystick in the way to get out of the combo. Im sorry if this is a bad explanation I'm trying my best
PITBOXES AAAAAAAAAAAAA
I still thank you for always bringing up pit nair. It's so frustrating and I know I have lost games to its hitboxes.
I’d say my personal pick for the most overrated move would be Palutena’s neutral air. It’s perpetuated a stereotype of “just nair to win”, while in reality the move is quite easy to play around and in a significant portion of cases, won’t be thrown out by any experienced player to the degree many believe.
Definitely a good choice
Speaking of which, Falcon can actually crouch under some of Palu’s OOS options with the right spacing, then punishing with a U-smash.
Most characters in the game can punish it out of Shield if she lands in front of you, and you can parry the last hit of it if she tries to cross you up, making it even less safe. It's also shockingly whiff punishable and since the move lasts a while, is easy to react to a whiff.
This is what I thought would have made the list
Palus up air is more annoying
Counterpoint on Joker/Arsene down air. It give me a special feeling and hits the dopamine real hard.
But legit tho I didn't know about the fact that you can tech it. It's still may favorite move in the game cause that two part spike is just so satisfying to hit and me and my friends aren't high enough level players to hit that tech timing especially on wi-fi :)
Hopefully Feint Jump gets buffed in the next patch
God bless this comment
Since this video is about "really good moves, but they have weaknesses", the point about buffered/instant Ganon's Nair hitting too high made me think of Corrin's Bair.
Yes, it is her best move - along with FSmash and maybe Up Air - but the instant/buffered version goes above the head of pretty much everyone in the cast (even Ganon), which rules out buffered RARs against grounded opponents in neutral.
This obviously applies to her Attack-Cancel Bairs (i.e. "instant RARs") too, but these tend to be used as anti-airs, so it's not so much of a big deal.
Also, Corrin's Bair comes out so slowly that throwing them out from a low altitude (e.g. after falling through a lower platform, during a RAR short-hop, etc.) has quite a small window.
It's huge hitbox, kill power, recoil and horizontal recovery make it an amazing move, but the above issues prevent it from being a Top-3 Bair in the game (as some have claimed).
It should say something about mockrocks videos that I enjoy each second of them, despite me not being big into competitive smash
0:11
Look mom, I’m on TV!
And of course, if you were to do a part 2, you already know what move I’d bring up.
WTF ganon nair is frame 7, hows that "very slow" o_O. The move does mad damage - like a combo. It has no landing lag, decent reach and lingering hitbox, it kills nicely, its amazing as an edgeguard. Like the move has it all. Imagine that on a faster character.
Is it weird that the voice in my head has his voice?
Saying a frame 7 move is "slow" is disingenuous. Frame 7 is as fast or faster than the average aerial.
Moves tend to be slower the larger they are as well, so Ganon and Wolf both are just fine having frame 7 nair's especially given their size, they can out space many MANY faster moves in the game.
2:46 I am going to cry
RIP. Do arrows work at doing that?
Went through 3 keyboards making this video, they are not equipped to be soaked in tears 😞
This was an amazing angle to take when making this video. I absolutely love that you took very notoriously good and difficult to deal with moves and provided counterplay to them that was actually useful, viable, and obscure and didn't just give some "git gud" advice. 100% hoping to see more videos like this
4:27 This may be the definitive version but something tells me this won't be the last time we hear of Pit's gambling Nair.
Speaking of belmonts, t3 dom also stated holy water is a worse version of pk fire and arc fire combined.
Cloud’s Climhazzard is by far the most overrated move ever. People talk about how amazing it is as an out of shield option when it doesn’t kill, doesn’t combo, doesn’t have anything other than damage and “get off me”. It’s not as good as people think >_>
and it's only frame 10, not even terribly fast!
being a good up b out of shield is all it needs to be, especially during an era of mainly wifi. cloud has other moves to fulfil “killing and comboes” so i don’t really see your point.
@@cpu8636 it is still an okay out of shield, but everyone says it does way more than it actually does. thats basically the definition of “overrated”
pretty sure you can also sdi out of the last hit
@@KevSB07 frame 7
It seriously bothers me that the move description for flip jump literally says he leaps with invulnerability, even though he gets like 3 frames and when he lands the end lag lasts so long I could go grab a snack
This is a really useful video, know that arsene dair is teachable and g&w up b is punishable (even though I would personally have to swap to a secondary to do so) is sure to help out me and others!
12:04 as a mii main im so glad somebody pointed this out. feint jump is also extremely predictable due to this lag present on the ground and in the air
Same here.
One thing you didn't mention about Wolf's nair is that the strong hit doesn't last as long as a lot of other nairs' strong hits, either. Most sex kick strong hits last anywhere from 4-6 frames, while Wolf's only lasts 3 frames, meaning you have less leeway for spacing it and compounds with the fact that his weak hit is as weak as it is
As a Bowser main, Side B is incredibly overrated. Only kills past 100%, which is high for Bowser. It doesn't combo, it has incredibly short range, and if it whiffs, you're eating a heavy punish. It's not a bad move by any means, great as a mix-up, but far from the OP option everyone seems to think it is.
It’s a super quick oos move that’s a command grab & kills. Most characters would trade their side bs for bowsers.
I did not know feint jump had a lot of endlag actually! When I saw it on here I agreed with it for a different reason, that move is incredibly vulnerable for way less distance. When I was getting advice from mii Brawler players they said challenging it with a spike hitbox is devastating because he can't take the trade or even more so it just flat out beats him. I'm a believer that feint jump is best used as a mix up, it's not a good move otherwise and what I learned from this video further solidified it
I remember getting rested by using pit’s nair cause of the bad hit box and that still upsets me
Also funny how they compare it to byleth’s nair yet didn’t fix the hit box that patch yet byleth’s fine
Byleth's Nair also has that final landing hit that catches opponents out so often.
Surprised KO punch wasn't on here. Takes away mac's only real way to answer to a lot of top tier matchups for a move that does kill at 20% but you can't true combo into it and will get you punished hard
KO punch is essentially a scare tactic and nothing more
Especially the part where you talked about how to deal with the move was very interesting, maybe make another video where you explain how to deal with moves that are hard to deal with for many people (like 10 hit combo, sephiroth neutral b, spin dash, gyro, etc)
I think this distinction applies somewhat to Link's Remote Bomb. It's powerful, it commands a good chunk of the stage, Link gets some nutty Gyro-like combos at higher percents with it, you have blast recoveries as an option now and it's great for intercepting other players' recoveries...
...but you have to commit to detonating it yourself (which requires good timing, spacing and stage awareness), it explodes when hit with flame moves (making some MUs like Snake very difficult if not played carefully), hitting someone with the bomb itself does next to _no_ knockback at low percents so it doesn't combo into the explosion until your opponent is at mid percents, at high enough percents it can actually knock the opponent _out_ of the blast radius, players can use it against you if you're recovering if they know you used your double jump and it's left onstage... It requires a lot more management than most players care to admit. To really get the most mileage out of it, you have to mix it in with smart use of Link's other projectiles, namely Boomerang. Truthfully, I throw out Boomerang _way_ more than I pull out Remote Bomb in most scenarios.
4:19 genuine question, why didn't they just make it one large circle? That's how other similar moves seem to be 🤨 and it would possibly solve the whole problem of characters falling out of it
I had no idea about that Joker down air fact. That's really interesting!
One thing to note about Feint Jump is that it does have an auto cancel window on both the normal jump and the kick that good Brawlers will abuse so that is something to keep in mind if a Brawler player is doing their Feint Jump from higher up
6:00 slingshot threw this to the dirt
I think an interesting video topic would be moved that newbs love to use and how to counter them. Usually this is easily spammable moves like Kirby’s down special and Ike’s up special.
Dude i love your editing style so much. I always appreciate TH-camrs that can give me something nice to look at.
11:05 i was a rob main and i totally agree with that one, sure it can do really good stuff if you use it well but it's still weird to think that people use it as a combo tool when it's so slow
This dude literally said that G&W’s up special was the best in the game and made a big deal of how horrible and hard it is to keep G&W pinned down.
ANOTHER MOCKROCK VIDEO YOOOOO, happy a counterpart to the underrated was made, also so close to 100k you got this man
The weirdest thing to me about the Pits Nair (and their multi hit hitboxes in general) is that there are a bunch of far more consistent multi hit attacks that have far different hitboxes. Hitboxes on multi hits in smash are a bit of a roulette wheel in general in terms of how they work, some spawning a bunch of hitboxes that cover the general area of the spin (stuff like the Pits, Mewtwo, and Banjo Nairs come to mind), some creating one or several hitboxes which spin around in a circle (Palu, Byleth, Mythra, Plant, and Ivysaur all have this kind of Nair), and some that dead ass just create one hitbox that pulls opponents in no matter what (That would be Pikachu and Lucas's Nair)... it makes you question why they didn't just stick with one consistent method that works towards matching the visual while functioning consistently rather than trying out so many different methods for these kinds of moves
my underrated move is banjo down special. it's still the best move in his kit but the fact that the opponents can grab it with an attack means all you have to do to avoid it is time your attacks when you land on it. and it has tons of endlag, way more than comparable moves. on top of that, it comes out frame 8, meaning unlike snakes grenade or duckhunts can, it can't be used to combo break. it's still good when thrown, but you have to wait through the entire 44 frame move before you get to grab it. the closest comparison is diddy's banana, but the banana is a kill confirm where the egg rarely combos into more than a backair.
For ganon you can hit some medium or large sized openings by fast falling after jumping while doing neutral air
10:17 wow this music is so cool i hope it is in smash haha
A world where Feint Jump has the same amount of endlag as Flip Kick is a perfect world
As a Ganon main since Brawl I'm used to working with lackluster tools lol, and tbh the drawbacks of his nair you listed don't seem to impact me much? I'm used to being slow, I don't use it out of shield (anything else would be better), and nair 1 doesn't push enemies back yes but that means you can combo/confirm off it. Nair's a major part of his gameplay and its positives outweigh its negatives, and you can fill in its drawbacks in with other moves.
Yeah I feel like anyone trying to use a rising Nair with Ganon is doing it wrong. Not sure that makes the move all that much worse. I agree it's not the best Nair in the game, but that's partly because almost every character has a good, if not great, Nair.
10:19 - 10:57
Ah.. interesting.. so yea ig online can be more delayed sometimes ish
14:11 - 15:33
interesting.. so apparently moves that spiked you while you were grounded (sending you upwards) used to be techable in previous games except the first.
Now in ultimate, they're techable but Joker's Arsene seems to be a special exception.
(tbh i would've thought all grounded spikes were techable in ultimate prior to this)
Can’t believe you didn’t mention that Pyra up b can be punished with skewer out of shield
It’s -48, skewer has 30 frame startup, shield drop is 11, 41 < 48
As a Lucas main, I think Up smash gets a little more attention than it deserves. Yes the damage and hitbox is ridiculous and the I-frames on startup is a sweet cherry on top….but not the best cherry out there. Because the invincibility starts only on the first frames of the move (unlike GandW’s up smash, where they occur after charging), you’re forced to predict your opponent coming at you with a move with above average lag to balance out the time it takes for the up smash to come out. It works wonders in these scenarios, but realistically, these scenarios are a pretty rare occurrence in competitive play and whiffing it spells out nothing but a massive punish.
i like that After the Dair tech thing was discovered, the move became Better
joker going for more Fair1 UpSmash and other setup makes so Dair doesn't get teched that much
(or i Just find bad player online)
Can confirm from being the pit facing the k rool having n air miss breaks my heart
not agreeing on ganon my dear. frame 7 isnt that fast but its solid. given the suprising hitbox(disjointed), low lag, amazing damage and edgeguar, you expect too much from the move if you say frame 7 is "very slow". its only weakness is the inconsistency of second hit but its easily workable. its an amazing move with many applications
Awesome video i wonder what are the most properly rated attacks ?
As a BK main, I am very surprised Wonderwing didn't show up on this list
Holy Water also sucks because you can shield it and suddenly the Belmont can also get hurt by it. Even worse, the opponent can then grab it and throw it themselves, making it only hurt the Belmont.
Simple solution for the first three; don’t up-b somebody’s shield as game and watch, why would you do that, just space pit nair, it’s a frame 4 move it shouldn’t hit everybody all the time everywhere, just don’t aerial somebody’s shield as mythra, she can switch fast all f-tilt, the moves not bad people just need better option choices
1 year later, and yeah no... Minecart is bullshit.
Thank God someone talks about minecart. As a long time Steve main, It's still a good move, but definitely not the insane "best move" that most make it up to be.
@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493 LOL as a STEVE main I CONFIRM block is one of the most USELESS moves in the game, yeah its on TOP 5 of the WORST AND most STUPID and useless moves in the GAME, like seriously it breaks if you touch it for 1 SEC and YOU CAN'T place them on USEFUL PLACES... And the fact that YOU CAN'T mine in the climax of a HIGH-TIER COMPETITIVE PLAY makes AWFUL the fact that it cost materials that you can use in other weak Attacks with INSANE ENDING LAG OF THIS MF
As a Steve main, he dosen't has a "good" move, I HOPE THEY CHANGE HIS AWFUL MOVESET IN THE NEXT SORA UPDATE... ALL HIS SPECIALS SUCK SO BAD
@@juandavidamadomartin8015 i legitimately can't tell if you're joking or not because placing blocks is one of the best privileges a character can have
@@rinn5238 Placing something that breaks 1 second after you touch it is a privilege? LOL AND as I said you CAN'T place them in useful or strategic places. LOL YOU clearly don't play Steve, in general this MF dosen't has ANY privilege at all just disadvantages, and even those awful blocks cost materials so they are NEVER useful... As I said BLOCKS are in the TOP 5 Worst moves in the game, and I say this as a long-time Steve Main...
@@juandavidamadomartin8015 please, don't make me laugh
have you ever thought of canceling endlag on moves by using blocks, especially moves like up smash or down tilt? maybe even getting a double jump back or putting an anvil on it and doing moves when the block breaks and you fall down with it? perhaps even placing a tnt block on top of it and mining in the sky? clearly not and besides they stick around a decent amount of time if you don't stand on them
if placing blocks a million miles offstage is the only practical use you can think of for them then i'd suggest you use pyra or ness because they requires one brain cell or less which is what you clearly have
Kinda expected Bowser side b, people tend to overestimate the move and bowser mains know it's mostly just good for mixups on shield and out of a jab
To punish Game and watch up b with both pits. Try netrual b aiming upwards
I’d love to see another of these, for each video.
There’s one move in particular that seems like it’d fit in either of these lists, and I’d love to see where you think it lands, that being Kirby’s dair.
Obviously, in a vacuum, it’s one of the weakest spikes on the roster, with slow startup and weak knockback, but it’s also very active and meant to be abused by a character with multiple jumps. I’d say it’s more overrated by beginners than it is underrated at top level, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it on either list. Hell, including it in both would be funny.
Sometimes I imagine Ganon with ZSS flip kick
I will always hate the minecart in Smash due to it being a projectile force-grab, it feels almost impossible to do anything with it constantly being used against me (Or at least that's how it usually seems to pan out) as it will either cover most stages with a potential force-grab or do the force-grab and get all the benefits of Ganondorf's Flame Choke without any of the downsides. It feels like a move where once you're caught, it's an inevitable KO, and a long-drawn-out one at that. It's a move that does not permit any sort of reaction if you're hit and frankly lasts way too long.
I honestly disagree with the game and watch up b. I feel like it’s really just the gnw using the move poorly if people punish it. It’s also really risky and requires really fast reaction time since if u don’t do it right after he uses the move he’s probably just gunna dair you. Like u rarely ever see maister get punished when he uses it.
Good video, though I still think Minecart is too good.
Online definitely makes it worse, but for me the problem is how hard the powered version hits for an easy burst option. I've seen that thing kill superheavies at like 60%. That's just stupid.
You make amazing videos, dude! Keep it up! 💜
I remember when I got pit in random, I got beat out by a mii brawler constantly, no matter what attack I used, which makes no sense
Like the video but the pick of R.O.B.'s nair is like asking for a nerf to Little Mac. That might be a stretch, but for how much good it does, I don't think it deserves to be here. Once again, still a good video.
1:40 So I guess Link or Pikachu takes the top spot on the Best Moves video
🤐
I'm really baffled why The Angels' NAir isn't just a single, circular hitbox
I'm fairly certain a lot of moves in the game have a larger hitbox to the point it's kinda-sorta stupid, so why do The Angels get swiss cheese with their NAir?
how about each characters best and worst of smash attacks throws specials tilts aerials neutrals...
You are right that joker dair can be teched, but if you get good enough at reacting to it, it won't matter. Also there is a way to hit dair so that you only get the arsene hitbox.
This is awesome. I love how he considers his topics, even if everything isn't always 100% correct. He isn't a robot, he's a guy. The entertainment value and production quality make it easy to overlook the tiny mistakes. All that being said, Best Defensive Options and Worst Defensive Options when?
I would say that marcina dolphin slash could be added to this list. Everyone talks about how it is fast, has invincibility frames and is a combo breaker. No one talks about its really tiny sweet spot, lack of safety on hit at low percents, incredibly high end lag and lack of aerial drift, and lack of horizontal recovery with a tight ledge snap window making recovery really predictable.
I finally know what someone means when they say a move is -6 on shield etc. That was not the purpose of the video but you did a good job explaining it thank you!
2:44 I feel your pain.
I play lucas and his bottom 15 fh, floaty double jump and low range vertical moves makes it impossible to punish gnw for it.
As a Mii Brawler player, I get away with FJ Kick on stage wayyy more often than I should. People just don't expect that massive endlag, specially online.
This was actually a pretty fun video, and here I was expecting something super controversial! The only one I’d have to disagree with is Steve’s minecart, as the resources the powered rail variant consumes aren’t the most useful and you straight up cannot shield it or you’ll get command grabbed
Arsene Dair becomes untechable pretty early, so teching the second hit isn't a very reliable counterplay imo. The twitter clips were using the training modpack which has a bug where the CPU can tech untechables
You’re a hero for voicing the absurdities that have happened to the pits. I thought I was crazy when I was complaining about non swordies attacks out ranging pits SWORDS! I love playing as those 2 but they get shafted so hard by being “balanced” in a game where every other character has janky ass gimmicks 😂
And also mentioning mii brawlers version of faint jump. I realized that move wasn’t really that good after I… used it in training mode lol
btw would it be possible for the pits to punish Fire with arrows?