I used to play Panzer General 2,this is my first try this week at PC2 and I wish I found your videos earlier.I'm up to the Soviet Campaign,invading Rostov.I ran out of prestige to fix my battle worn army and about to play with half strength units.Subscribed now,you give good technical analysis of games.
@@TheEdmon Good stuff,I got the notifications on,so as you post them,I can watch.Yes you got the game worked out well.Strategy games are your forte,keep it up,thanks.
Your comment from 16:46 blows me away. All the way back to Panzer General it was go go go. It was true Blitz to get the mission done as fast as possible. This "use all the turns in the game" is a very interesting change.
This is the biggest and most important change in the game to realise early. There is very little reward for an early finish. You are much better off using the additional time to prevent losses (by using artillery/aircraft more, taking your time, etc).
@@TheEdmon I have started to play the slower parts of the campaign. I switched my armies from quick and mobile units. To slower more infantry based units. With just a couple tanks.
@@TheEdmon _"This is the biggest and most important change in the game to realise early."_ you are absolutely right but this is calld terrible game design, especially in a ww2 game, speed should be rewarded not this temporization
Units surrender when they are forced to retreat but cannot. Either because they have no movement points remaining or are completely surrounded. Units retreat when you do damage equal to or greater than 2/3 of their remaining un-suppressed combat steps. One good way to force surrenders is first forcing a unit to retreat onto a river. That uses all their movement. Then a second attack will automatically force the surrender if you can do enough damage.
While I do mention this in the video, this is not exactly correct as there is one thing missing, units will not retreat until their entrenchment is at a base level. You can totally suppress a unit in a city for example, as long as their entrenchment is green (05/10 or higher and not the base amount of 04/10) they will not retreat. This is what fuels the issue of infantry in critical objective tiles not retreating even though they've taken crushing damage.
Liberator trait is very good in combination with that hero „2x prestige for capturing flags“. For instance, capturing a primary target normally gives you 100 prestige, but with Liberator you get 150 and that hero doubles it to 300!
Just picked up the game in Feb. Started computer wargaming years ago with Perfect General then Panzer General. Restarted the SCW with your Encirclement tips switched on. But ran into too many units that were next to each other preventing easy encirclement. Will you be doing a multiple unit encirclement video? I'm going to have to try out your tips on the Poland campaign to get this technique down. Thanks and keep up the GREAT work!
As long as there is a path you can make, using your own units, you should be able to get an encirclement. That's why the power 4 work so well, they keep you in supply and allow you to bypass the enemy to get behind them. Some of it is gut feeling as well, of course. Not sure what I could do in another video on encirclement but I will give it some thought.
@@jmarzacco2780 Check out the "power 4" video guide to see the power 4 discussed, which are the kings of encirclement. I have a playlist for all my Panzer Corps 2 guides on my main page.
I told u encirclement with deadly grasp is awesome :P I have to admit, that I didnt realize the possibilities for massive surrender income tho. Cant wait to restart on hardest diff because normal is insanely easy. I think not having to take negative traits even outweighs the double surrender income. You should consider using hordes of blocker trash units like brigde infantry. You can always give them green recruits (since they will never be any good even with 5 stars) and split and dont have to worry about a wipe. And they cost only 1 deployment point. Should make those complete surrounds a lot easier just for having the numbers. Bridgies are also my go to unit to take the odd remote city into a "deadly grasp"
Ooh ok, the edges of the map provide supplies and minor rivers do not block supplies... just the info I needed to understand why my encirclements were not working
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2049117521 ~40 encircled units. At the end of this mission, *without* Trophies of war or Liberator, I had an extra 5k prestige (FM difficulty), an 18-strength T-34/40, a 16-strength KV-2 and an assortment of other captured equipment.
There is one thing I did not quite understand: You said when you kill more than 66% of base supression they may surrender. What does may surrender mean? If they are encircled, they will surrender 100% of the time, right? And if they are not surrounded but you deal 66% of base suppression as damage there is a chance they'll surrender?
If they have any entrenchment over the base amount they may not surrender, even if you have them surrounded and totally suppressed. If there is a gap to escape to and they have movement left, they will retreat to a different tile (once again if no entrenchment is left over).
Hmm, math is hard: 15 turn, 20 per turn: 300, not 350, you cannot even get 350, since it is 20*X, where x is a whole number. 900-540: 360, not 440, not even sure how you got that, 460 would be a common mistake, but 440 is just a random number. Beside this yep, surrender income can be quite a lot, not sure if it is a viable strat on harder difficulties, where income is a stuff to deal with, since you need lots of units and some even split for some time, which is just asking for a wipe. The forcing it into a river and attacking again is better in most case (it only need to unit, but two attack), and while it only gets you usually around 30% of the max value, even this involved one would give only 60% - and the doubling of the trait; of course, if you get the right hero for this, it can be insane)
Top players literally do nothing but capture all throughout the early and mid game, it works as an excellent source of prestige on the highest difficulty levels and you aren't very vunerable because the encirclement penalities are so harsh. Also, math on stream without a calculator is always tricky :P
Supply can pass over a bridge as long as it is not contested anywhere. It is very easy to block a bridge, you just need to zone of control the bridge tile or the tiles leading to or from it.
I'm new to PanzerCorps 2 (loved playing "Order Of The Battle"). But this whole splitting and encircling really keeps me from getting started. I just don't like this concept. Seems overhelming. And u state it directly at the beginning: "being polly the most overpowered element in the game ..."
It is a really fun game, even if encirclement is a bit on the strong side. You don't have to play with splitting if you don't want to, that is a more advanced technique.
Not the best wording, I admit, outside of an engineering department. 180 degrees is a line, then perpendicular to that is a right angle to either side of that line. I used this term a lot in engineering for support structures. Where you have something that is a line or could be made into one, then the instruction is to add support at 90 degrees to that on either side.
Good briefing, thanks for posting.
I used to play Panzer General 2,this is my first try this week at PC2 and I wish I found your videos earlier.I'm up to the Soviet Campaign,invading Rostov.I ran out of prestige to fix my battle worn army and about to play with half strength units.Subscribed now,you give good technical analysis of games.
Thanks! I am glad your enjoying the guides. I will be doing a grand campaign series soon as well, so look forward to that!
@@TheEdmon Good stuff,I got the notifications on,so as you post them,I can watch.Yes you got the game worked out well.Strategy games are your forte,keep it up,thanks.
It is 66% of their Unsuppresed HP
So if a unit have 10HP and 7SUP it has 3 “Unsupressed HP” so you need to deal 2 damage to make it retreat
Instablaster.
Your comment from 16:46 blows me away. All the way back to Panzer General it was go go go. It was true Blitz to get the mission done as fast as possible. This "use all the turns in the game" is a very interesting change.
This is the biggest and most important change in the game to realise early. There is very little reward for an early finish. You are much better off using the additional time to prevent losses (by using artillery/aircraft more, taking your time, etc).
@@TheEdmon I have started to play the slower parts of the campaign. I switched my armies from quick and mobile units. To slower more infantry based units. With just a couple tanks.
@@TheEdmon _"This is the biggest and most important change in the game to realise early."_
you are absolutely right but this is calld terrible game design, especially in a ww2 game, speed should be rewarded not this temporization
Units surrender when they are forced to retreat but cannot. Either because they have no movement points remaining or are completely surrounded. Units retreat when you do damage equal to or greater than 2/3 of their remaining un-suppressed combat steps. One good way to force surrenders is first forcing a unit to retreat onto a river. That uses all their movement. Then a second attack will automatically force the surrender if you can do enough damage.
While I do mention this in the video, this is not exactly correct as there is one thing missing, units will not retreat until their entrenchment is at a base level. You can totally suppress a unit in a city for example, as long as their entrenchment is green (05/10 or higher and not the base amount of 04/10) they will not retreat. This is what fuels the issue of infantry in critical objective tiles not retreating even though they've taken crushing damage.
Liberator trait is very good in combination with that hero „2x prestige for capturing flags“. For instance, capturing a primary target normally gives you 100 prestige, but with Liberator you get 150 and that hero doubles it to 300!
Just picked up the game in Feb. Started computer wargaming years ago with Perfect General then Panzer General. Restarted the SCW with your Encirclement tips switched on. But ran into too many units that were next to each other preventing easy encirclement. Will you be doing a multiple unit encirclement video? I'm going to have to try out your tips on the Poland campaign to get this technique down. Thanks and keep up the GREAT work!
As long as there is a path you can make, using your own units, you should be able to get an encirclement. That's why the power 4 work so well, they keep you in supply and allow you to bypass the enemy to get behind them. Some of it is gut feeling as well, of course. Not sure what I could do in another video on encirclement but I will give it some thought.
@@TheEdmon Is the 4th tip Master of Blitzkrieg? I'll try it. Thanks!
@@jmarzacco2780 Check out the "power 4" video guide to see the power 4 discussed, which are the kings of encirclement.
I have a playlist for all my Panzer Corps 2 guides on my main page.
@@TheEdmon Looked at it and took COPIOUS notes. a couple of weeks ago. Major THANKS!
thanks for posting
27:57 Great summary. Having a Scrooge McDuck money bin doesn't necessarily mean you win the war.
I told u encirclement with deadly grasp is awesome :P
I have to admit, that I didnt realize the possibilities for massive surrender income tho.
Cant wait to restart on hardest diff because normal is insanely easy.
I think not having to take negative traits even outweighs the double surrender income.
You should consider using hordes of blocker trash units like brigde infantry. You can always give them green recruits (since they will never be any good even with 5 stars) and split and dont have to worry about a wipe. And they cost only 1 deployment point.
Should make those complete surrounds a lot easier just for having the numbers.
Bridgies are also my go to unit to take the odd remote city into a "deadly grasp"
Ooh ok, the edges of the map provide supplies and minor rivers do not block supplies... just the info I needed to understand why my encirclements were not working
Great :).
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2049117521
~40 encircled units. At the end of this mission, *without* Trophies of war or Liberator, I had an extra 5k prestige (FM difficulty), an 18-strength T-34/40, a 16-strength KV-2 and an assortment of other captured equipment.
would love to see you encircle Kiev~
If people keep voting for Panzer Corps 2 campaigns, then I will keep doing them :D
There is one thing I did not quite understand: You said when you kill more than 66% of base supression they may surrender. What does may surrender mean? If they are encircled, they will surrender 100% of the time, right? And if they are not surrounded but you deal 66% of base suppression as damage there is a chance they'll surrender?
If they have any entrenchment over the base amount they may not surrender, even if you have them surrounded and totally suppressed.
If there is a gap to escape to and they have movement left, they will retreat to a different tile (once again if no entrenchment is left over).
Hmm, math is hard:
15 turn, 20 per turn: 300, not 350, you cannot even get 350, since it is 20*X, where x is a whole number.
900-540: 360, not 440, not even sure how you got that, 460 would be a common mistake, but 440 is just a random number.
Beside this yep, surrender income can be quite a lot, not sure if it is a viable strat on harder difficulties, where income is a stuff to deal with, since you need lots of units and some even split for some time, which is just asking for a wipe.
The forcing it into a river and attacking again is better in most case (it only need to unit, but two attack), and while it only gets you usually around 30% of the max value, even this involved one would give only 60% - and the doubling of the trait; of course, if you get the right hero for this, it can be insane)
Top players literally do nothing but capture all throughout the early and mid game, it works as an excellent source of prestige on the highest difficulty levels and you aren't very vunerable because the encirclement penalities are so harsh.
Also, math on stream without a calculator is always tricky :P
How do you capture aircraft??
You can't
Well, great video BUT you forgot to explain exactly how one deploys a captured unit on the battlefield. If you would explain that it would be great.
You "upgrade" to it from a German unit in the same catagory, or buy it fresh, but you need at least 10 to do so.
Is a bridge Not a point to Get supplay?
Supply can pass over a bridge as long as it is not contested anywhere. It is very easy to block a bridge, you just need to zone of control the bridge tile or the tiles leading to or from it.
Thanks. So realy I don't understand sometimes I just need to stand on a free field and zack its encircled.
I'm new to PanzerCorps 2 (loved playing "Order Of The Battle"). But this whole splitting and encircling really keeps me from getting started. I just don't like this concept. Seems overhelming. And u state it directly at the beginning: "being polly the most overpowered element in the game ..."
It is a really fun game, even if encirclement is a bit on the strong side. You don't have to play with splitting if you don't want to, that is a more advanced technique.
@@TheEdmon okay. I'll give it a try :)
love the vids, but "180 degrees perpendicular" kills me...
Not the best wording, I admit, outside of an engineering department. 180 degrees is a line, then perpendicular to that is a right angle to either side of that line.
I used this term a lot in engineering for support structures. Where you have something that is a line or could be made into one, then the instruction is to add support at 90 degrees to that on either side.
This is an obvious overpower :(... must be nerfed or it make no sense the restrictions in prestige in harder difficulties.
I agree, but it isn't my choice. You could half the power of envelopment and it would still be very strong.
@@TheEdmon thank you for the answer... you give feedback to the devs about this? It is supposed to PC2 have more patches to balance game?
@@ricardolemos8866 I gave this feedback, but I don't think it will change as some of the hardest missions have sort of become designed around it.
So finicky, looks like an incredibly boring and unrealistic way to play the game.