To DS or not to DS? Comparing Canon's RF 85mm f/1.2 lenses
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- I had lots of fun making this comparison video, fiddly as it was.
Links to full reviews:
Canon RF 85mm f/1.2 'L' USM: • Canon RF 85mm f/1.2 'L...
Find it here (Amazon affiliate link): geni.us/canonrf85f12
Canon RF 85mm f/1.2 'L' USM 'DS': • Canon RF 85mm f/1.2 'L...
Find it here (Amazon affiliate link): geni.us/canonrf85f12ds
All pictures taken by me on a Canon EOS R camera.
Support me on Patreon! / christopherfrost
Equipment I use to make my videos (Amazon affiliate links):
Canon EOS R5: geni.us/CanonEOSR5Body
Canon EF-RF Adaptor: geni.us/CanonEFtoRF
Sigma 50mm f/1.4 'Art': geni.us/Sigma50mm14Art
Canon RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM: geni.us/CanonRF35mm18Macro
Marumi Fit and Slim CPL Filter: geni.us/MarumiFitSlim77
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Music:
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Thanks for the video and it was exactly what I needed! I’m going with the DS for the work that I do. I can always bump up my iso to account for the loss of light on the DS version but I can’t make any adjustments to round out those cats eyes on the non DS.
Been thinking of what lens I should get... Prolly gonna get the DS version as well.
Pictures look great!
Sure, it's expensive, but I can save up for it and when I'm on the point of having the "normal" version, I can hold out just a little longer and get the DS version.
Great explanation and comparison, thank you.
Great explanation👌👍
From my experience...the DS version is exceptionally brilliant in daylight shooting especially for Bokeh....but I prefer to work with Non DS version in Low light conditions.
Very helpful, thank you!
I'm glad I came upon this. I'm ready to get the 85 1.2, but I didn't realize there were two versions. This is a tricky decision. To my eye, the DS actually almost takes on a fake bokeh look, like it's too smooth. Like something my iPhone would fake. It looks more like a gaussian blur than a lens blur.
2:54 The sunflower is a good example. I prefer the blatant bokeh circles on the middle left as opposed to the blurred out circles on the right image. It's just got that traditional bokeh look.
This is obviously a very subjective thing and each person will have their own preference. I'll be going with the non-DS to retain the stop of light and vintage bokeh. If I'm paying for 1.2, I want to have full advantage of it.
Thanks for the comparisons!
i agree with you. and i feel i can edit the photos to have a similar hazy bookeh in post anyway, though i prefer the sharper bookeh as it looks more real. the bookeh balls just look like fog on the ds versin, while thw standardhasnice defined overlapping balls. just realized its darker too, thats abig no
It's equivalent with and f2? Well that's a huge compromise, a huge deal breaker for me. I prefer to low light capability, that's the main reason I get an f1.2
I am trying to decide which lens to buy rf85mm f1.2 or The DS version of it. I understand there is approximately 1and 1/3 stop of light loss with the DS version. Did you notice ANY setback in low light? Or having to use higher ISO more than usual?
I need to make my decision soon. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Also I LOVE your videos. I recently subscribed!
Great video! I think I'll get the regular version. I prefer not to have the issues you encountered over having smoother bokeh.
The DS version sacrifices too much T-stops. Agree that bokeh is damn good but it's not worth it tho.
many choose this focal length for the out of focus ,so it is worth it for them
f/2.2 with f/1.2 depth of field is plenty fast IMO
Sometimes T stop is not the most important criteria.
I can easily recover the 1.3 EV light lost by pulling shadow details without moving ISO, AV or TV. Any Canon ML body can tolerate +2.5 EV shadow recovery, +1.3 EV is a piece of cake, btw, the new R5 & R6 can easily pull +3.5 EV even better. $300 is money well spent, IMO.
@Karl Dilkington Good point I actually never thought of that!
If only comparing the color and sharpness, are these 2 versions the same? Thank 👍
Awesome!
The DS version it is, I'll use it for video!
I really wished that you could have compared the bokeh of f1.4 in non-ds and f1.2 in ds.
Depends on how much light you have available I guess
I’m stuck on choosing which one to get , I sold my Rf 50mm and loved that lens but I want to switch to the 85mm focal length, I like having that extra low light aperture but I also like how the DS version makes the subject pop in a 3D way more. What do you guys think I should get?
If you have to ask, DS. If you got the non DS version you’d be constantly dwelling on the DS version. Way Less likely vice versa if you don’t mind DS ‘s gaussianish look.
What I'm gathering from all these comparisons is if you ever shoot stills of moving subjects in low light, get the non-DS so you can keep the shutter a stop or more faster. Also get the non-DS if you will mix the shots in with ones taken with other regular lenses, so all the photos have a similar look. Get the DS if you'll be displaying its images exclusively by themselves and you either won't be shooting in low light or are only shooting things in low light where you can afford a lower shutter speed.
The vignetting on the DS makes sense because of the inbuilt radial ND elements. Meaning it darkens the edge progressively from the middle...hence the smoothness of the bokeh. Yeah so if ultimate low light performance is your goal then go with the non-DS, if ultimately smooth bokeh is your goal...then go with the DS. Lets remember that any lens f/2.8 or larger (DS effectively f/2) is pretty darn good in low light. I mean at some graduations, after the ceremony, all the kiddos roam around with their parents in an area that is for all intents and purposes pitch black and I use the R5, 24-105mm f/4 and EL-1 on camera flash to take family group shots...no problem. So even if I had f/1.2 of the non-DS, the photos would look like crap...gotta use a flash. Plus 85mm is too tight for that situation. I mean even the 50mm f/1.2 would probably be too tight. I personally chose the DS because if I was going to spend that much, I want something truly unique and as I've heard other photogs say... the 85 is money!
I find all pictures of Ds versions are more greenish .Specially here 2:11 , i wonder if you had same white balance on both footages , but anyway I’ll go for Ds version for sure and if I’ll ever need glass without Ds i will get Samyang for it with reasonable price . I wish that the Ds technology will be in Samyang too in future.Love this lens 😍
Was thinking about get one of these monsters and think I will go with the reg version what's the point of getting a 1.2 when you can't get 1.2 without having to adjust the shutter speed.
please compare Canon RF 85mm f/1.2L USM DS vs Sony FE 100mm f/2.8 STF GM OSS. Both are apd lens.
DS Looks pure dreamy.
Just soften the background in post processing that will take like 5 min work.
i think the ds takes out all of the character of the picture. its just really one big blur, like if its blurred in post
Really like the look of the DS but I wish there was a 24-50mm DS to match with it. It's not really practical for me to do a whole shoot with just a mid-tele but mix up some DS shots with non-DS shots and the change in rendering seems really jarring. Come on, Canon, you've already got the 50mm f/1.2, where's the DS version of that?
not enough difference to warrent losing lights and spending more on the DS version!
Why am I watching this, I can't even afford these lenses
Same reason why i watch hypercar reviews i guess! :p
I prepare for buying a used one. 😛 Anyway, even if I could afford them, I wouldn't buy one.
@@veer66 Used ones will be only a bit cheaper. Canon L glass holds its value very well.
You can always rent one for a day or two.
@@serioussam909 Maybe it won't be the same for RF and this economic situation.
I picked up the DS version and I am really loving the smooth Bokeh! I was really surprised how well the DS handles low light! It completely blows away my EF 85 in its ability to focus much quicker, and more accurately in low light. One big advantage that the DS version has is ... funnily enough... THAT IT LETS IN LESS LIGHT! 🤣 this means you can shoot at 1.2 in full daylight easier!!! At 1.2 on a 5d4, at 100 ISO, my 5d4 would often have to be using speeds of 1/8000 , but the DS version actually makes the 1.2 a bit friendlier, and also means you don’t need a filter to bring back the exposure... unless a filter is extremely high quality it can bring the image quality down. The IBIS on the R5 makes this lens easy to handhold in low light, to the point you can easily capture well beyond what you can see with your eyes, without the need for a tripod :)
Much awaited comparison
Ещё и хроматики у DS чуть больше, видно по таблице..
Но боке конечно сливочное)👍
Interesting - thanks for this. I would prefer the non-DS version simply for the better low-light capability.
Also the (best) price in the UK!! The non-DS is £2,733 and the DS is £3,499 - a difference of £756!! WOW!!
In Brazil the difference is R$3,000
Since the DS version achieves its result using radially graduated ND filters inside, would it be possible to achieve a similar result using a radially graduated ND filter applied as a normal removable filter in front of the lens? Assuming it works, even if the quality of the defocus smoothing is slightly less than the DS lens, it would let you decide whether you want to sacrifice the low light capabilities on a per-photo basis.
I've often wondered about that, but I'm certain the answer is 'no' (the marketplace would be full of them)
great review as always Chris! wish I could afford the standard 85 and EOS R5 combo.
The DS version acts in some ways like a narrower aperture lens because it effectively *is* a narrower aperture lens, from the point of view of a photon blocked by the apodization coating. The most defocused photons are the ones more likely to be blocked, so the backgrounds appear less defocused.
It should be slightly sharper too, since it's acting like it's stopped down a bit, though they're so freaking sharp wide-open, that you could hardly tell.
I think The digital picture mentioned the DS version having a bit bigger DOF, so you could very well be right.
I'll take the none ds lens please
How are they exposed same while one is letting a stop more light?
Because the camera has made the shutter speeds longer in the pictures taken with the DS lens
At full body shot lenghts you can tell the non DS has more blur and make subjects pop more though. Unfortunately you did not show that.
Absolutely!
had no idea this was a thing, this is an interesting video
That was a great comparison. Could you also take a look at Sony's 100mm F/2.8 STF Lens? It should produce a similar effect with the bokeh and therefor I am very interrested in that lens.
flic.kr/p/2iUangZ
I think the Sony is a wonderful lens although the tstop is a f5.6, very unique and I’ve never seen anything as smooth but it is like marmite
Yes that 5.6 T-Stop requires slow shutter speeds to keep the iso low. I already got the 90m macro and the 135 f/1.8. Currently i am looking at the 100mm stf.
Robin Ehrenhöfer I love the lens, Its not the easiest to use but it does have IS built in it which helps a lot. I considered the 135 1.8 gm but didn’t see the point in having both for me.
Thank you for the info, I think, I will reconsider and maybe try the lens some day.
Stunning lenses both, thank you for the comparison, i was waiting for it for quite some time now!
It shouldn't happen, but i do see a green/yellow cast on the photos of DS version.
Anyone else seeing this? Quite odd!
I noticed it too - look in the top right here: 02:07
@@christopherfrost Yes, and same goes to all images, very noticeable at the portrait shots as well. Maybe a lens variable? Would be very hard to find a second copy to verify of course!
All images are straight out of camera JPEGs with autoWB ?
@@grsamael Out of camera JPEGs, but not autoWB (I set the WB to daylight or other settings in order to check the colour balance)
It was written on screen and mentioned in the video.
With DS: For those who shoot at f1.2 during the day in sunlight and don't want to use an ND filter. The DS version does not have cat-eye bokeh and has more vibrant and contrasting colors that appear sharper at f1.2.
No DS: Better for shooting in low light and is cheaper. And at f1.2 there is less color; less contrast and therefore less sharpness and therefore appears to have a more melted bokeh. And it has cat-eye bokeh.
It would be very interesting to test the non-DS version at f2 and the DS version at f1.2 to see the difference.
I think the non-DS version is better. Because it is actually f1.2 and if you want the DS look, just put the non-DS at f2.
In other words: The non-DS at f2 is the same as the DS at f1,2.
The non-DS is two lenses in one.
2:14 I can clearly notice that the EFCS affected the quality of bokeh. The circles are cut in half. That is why I always shot either with a full mechanical or full electronic shutter.
If you are reading this and you don't understand, google it and then check it out for yourself.
Bro don’t use terms if you can’t explain them ... basically for those who don’t know, using the Electronic First Curtain Shutter above an high shutter speed (so like above 1/1000s for example) change the general exposure and the details of the background (if you compare with let’s say a mechanical shutter with exact same settings). So it results in a « less creamy » background (and a bit darker exposure)and therefore it’s « not the bokeh you paid for » some would say ... but carefull its only when EFCS . If it’s 100% mechanical or 100% Electronic Shutter (=silent shutter) it shouldn’t have this « problem ». Hope it helps !
Watching this despite the fact I can't even afford the camera system never mind the lenses.
EOS RP is not that expensive and it's an excellent camera for still photography and amateur video.
Could you please review the Nikkor 50mm 1.2 ai-s? Other vintage lenses would be great to see too.
Chris, am having Canon Rebel T6. Can you suggest me some best value for money External flash?
Go with a $100+ Yongnuo.
Get a TTL flash unless you want to be fucking with the settings every shot. Don't worry about power so much. Even on 1/64th power they'll probably beat your camera's flash.
Godox is the best. Also 100$, but far less problems than Yongnou. In fact - it has no problems at all. I have 1 for many years and I also shoot outside with flash (big difference in images quality) so it was used a lot - still working like a charm. Even better - buy a kit of 2 + trigger for 200$ and you will have a very useful tool there. TT685C ;-)
@@timoteiafanasie4894 So, how many photos you getting on those 4 batteries. I hope we can use Eneloop rechargeable batteries in this TT685C. Because, am thinking this and the V350C Or V860 ii because it has Lithium ion battery. Any thoughts?
I already have an RF 70-200 2.8, any point in this lens?
Good question. The DS is like an F2 as far as light transmission, but still a stop faster than 2.8. The non-DS will be 2 and a third stops faster than 2.8, so much better in low light situations and getting that super bokeh look (unless you're at 200mm and 2.8).
@@DanielFazzari Ah ok, thoughts on Grey Market cameras?
I prefer the non-ds version - the ds lens is so smooth it almost looks like the bokeh has been added in post - it has no character, I like the slight fussyness of the non ds version. I love the ef mount 50 1.2 for this reason, it is flawed but I love its charms.
I completely agree. DS looks like a filter has been applied in PS. Much prefer the non DS.
Why do you always test the AF when the battery is just about to die..?
I don't
Hahaha
For portraits the DS version is the clear winner, since there will generally be very good lighting. But I love night photography so I would definitely get the regular version of the lens if I were rich enough to be able to afford either of these.
Don't know about that. If you can control the lighting, you most often also have some control over the background. Or, you chose to have so.e of it visible, so DS doesn't really add to it.
@@ekevanderzee9538 I was thinking of weddings and outdoor portraits. I would still prefer the regular version of the lens most of the time anyway.
Can't wait to see your reviews of the 85mm F2 RF lens! I think it was over shadowed by the release of the R5 and R6 which is a shame cause it looks so good and more budget freindly!
As always, great video. I had not even heard of this DS version. You'd think I would since I just popped for an EOS R and 28-70 f2.0. I'd get the non-DS. The loss of transmission is a big loss when weighed against that really tiny bokeh improvement. Few if any could tell the difference in that bokeh. The non-ds bokeh is fantastic to begin with. I'd only get it if I were a really high-end portrait photographer.
The DS-Version creates a very artificial background (bokeh) it looks like a Photoshop Gaussian filter. Especially when you have some lights. on the other side you lose some F-stops with the DS-Version so I go with the non DS-Version allay long! And in comparison to the EF-Version the RF is way better (faster, sharper and no CAs)
is confusing understanding why the same aperture on the same camera have diferente stops of light. Is because da diference of F-stops and T-stops??
@Lionel Estriga. It’s the DS coating applied on the glass inside the lens.
Curiously how the DS suffers from vignetting a lot, while real STF lenses has NONE of it. As a result, you still don't get perfect highlights circles in the corners and the bokeh stays pretty nervous for this class of lenses
This video is so well done. To my eye, a lens in the middle would be great lol.
Where I live, it’s always bright & sunny, shooting @ f1.2 will over expose my images. The DS coating on the 85 f1.2 will be perfect in bright/sunny locations.
I actually prefer the bright and sharp bokeh balls of the non-DS. Though, I do agree it can look muddled in some situations.
Agree. To me, the DS looks unnatural; less like focal blurring, and more like somebody created fake bokeh in Photoshop with gaussian blur, or "portrait mode" on cameraphones.
@@fwiffo Yeah, it does look a bit fake in some of the shots. On some though it looks amazing.
RF 135mm 1.2 DS would be an absolute. beast, if Canon ever Comes up with one...!
Both look great, and most people watching this would be extremely happy with both, if you can afford it
Very true, absolutely stellar lens with two options basically. Too expensive though. I got my EF 85 1.2 II in pristine condition for $1200. Couldnt be happier with the lens!
I prefer non DS bokeh.
правильно... ведь оно более размыто.
Someone should make a filter for this.
when you're testing the auto focus, why is your camera always nearly flat?
It's not
What does that even mean?
@@MetalSlugzMaster out of battery
@@kiranpr7791 Ah, thank you. Must be UK specific lingo, like what we call a car trunk you call a boot?
Video makers should get the Samyang 85 xp instead imo, much better in manual focus, equally sharp and 800$. Given the manual focus assistance in these cameras it's the better option unless you are getting an actual cine lens.
In my opinion I still prefer the standard version. Not counting the big differences in T-stops, the bokeh lights on the DS versions look like the fake bokeh on smartphone camera. They almost look artificial
True, it looks photoshoped, and there is two or three stops difference in shutter speed, not worthed.
@@PunjabiGymBeats There's only about 1.5 stops in shutter speed
@@christopherfrost oh sorry i did not know exactly. Thanks
My thoughts exactly. Extra 400 USD for a smartphone look.
The regular version has a characteristic "cat-eye bokeh" but it's brighter, while the DS version's bokeh is softer and always round, at the expense of light loss
At th-cam.com/video/_6X0BaG4w-w/w-d-xo.html you can see the smoother bokeh in the leaf printed on the cusion just above the owl's head. And on the lines of the green leaf to the left of the head. Even though the non-DS is more blurred, the DS is less busy in the background.
Also check the bokeh balls to the left of the flower at th-cam.com/video/_6X0BaG4w-w/w-d-xo.html . Flat sharp discs vs nice blurs for the DS.
пятна хорошие, но фон не размыт так хорошо как на не-DS
DS looks slightly darker.
DS or nothing at all!
DS
I'll still stick to EF version.
I dont think the bokeh is worth sacrificing that much light, and I dont like its color rendition. Even if they cost the same Id go for No DS version. If I ever convince myself that its not too expensive.
To non photographers there is no difference between these two lenses, and reckon the non DS will let in more light and it's equally cheaper.
The non DS lens is better value lens.
To non-photographers there is no difference betweer RF 85 1.2 and EF 85 1.8. Of between an R5 and a cell phone for that matter. Just use a [ insert your fav superlative here] insta filter on it, compress the hell out of it and only look at it on a yony screen for a second or so.
@@ekevanderzee9538 sad but true!
@@ekevanderzee9538 Very true. Having said that EF 85 1.8 is one hell of a lens. The best $400 lens money can buy imho.
@@Qlicky i got mine for €200,-. Awesome lens.
@@ekevanderzee9538 Mine is 10 years old, has earned thousands of $, and I could sell it now and recuperate 80% of what I paid for it new. I use 85 1.2 II nowadays, but wouldnt hesitate for a second to use it over its vastly more expensive brother.
The best solution ... get both ;).
why 85mm lens make the subject looks like it's photoshopped on top of a background?
Large entrance pupil diameter
DS version 100%
🤔 It's like the fujinon 56mm f1.2 APD vs non APD
It's remember me the laowa 105mm
Nikon f/0.95 pleaaaseeee
With manual focus only.... for 7k. Yeahhhhh. No thanks.
DS version is better . For all those saying they can recreate this in photoshop or with a smart phone are missing the point . This is the perfect blur and keeps the attention on the subject. Not the background
I haven't seen any of those comments here.
Am I the only onewhoseems to like non DS bokeh better? The DS blur seems artificial, kind of like smartphone blur or photoshop blur.
To me - in most scenarios i see very little differenc. In some pictures non-ds even looks smoother. Only with bright points of light DS effect is undeniable
canon being extra. just make one lens.
First!
Also appears to have more contrast.
Now, Leica lenses and Canon lenses are almost the price.
In Korea, I need $850 to buy R5 and RF85.2L DS lens
$850! That's a good price 😂
Wow.. Very cheap
I'll buy it of you for twice that amount...
Ds better
I prefer non-DS version colors more. DS has ugly green tint especially on skin tones. Not to mention that DS version loses too much light (T-stop) DS just looks artificial in many ways.
Get Sony colours for 20 times the price.
Mirrorless cameras are the industry’s way of making a pile of money from overpriced lenses. The majority of photographers couldn’t tell you what camera or lens (old, new, digital, analog) took any specific photo if their lives depended on it.
Yes. It's starting to become like wine.
well, at least RF lenses are significantly smaller than their EF counterparts, and it's hard to put a price on that; for some it's worth a lot, for others it doesn't matter at all
just like some people are still shooting film, there will be plenty of people shooting DSRLs in 5, 10 or even 20 years
@@666Tomato666 You are so right. I won't be, not at age 68 with 2 top-of-the-line Canon bodies and a pile of pro lenses. My friend has a mirrorless system and I find the balance poor with a heavy pro lens on it, but that might just be me. I still miss my Hasselblads.
The question is, "Is it worth the extra $400 to you?"
$300
Percentage wise, that's nothing.
@@ekevanderzee9538 That's one month of food for me.
@@untouchable360x oh, I can't afford it either. One years plus of expendable income on an R body alone.
Nah, probably I'll buy 2 non ds and 2 ds, and I'll see what to do with them after that.
First I have to rob a bank, ofc, no problemo ;-)
I'm sorry but why tf would you compare the lenses with different settings?!
He has to because the Ds version lets in less light.
$3000 US Green papers for an NO IS Lens. Amazing. I will run away from Canon as soon as I get the chance.
And run to who? Sony or Nikon don't have any 85mm 1.2