I always thought Ranni forced him to drink the potion. Fallen to his own schemes has a poetic justice to it. And then Pidia was attacked for being the puppets caretaker
I like to think the Black Knife assassins force him to drink it since they also go after two later on once the questline is over. Just so he can get a taste of his own medicine, literally.
@@HeinzBeanz2002 Black Knives were betrayed by Ranni IMO. Alecto lost her daughter escaping Leyndell and Ranni locked Alecto in an Evergaol on Moonlight Plateau.
Thought this ar first, but even if you don't do his quest he is found lifeless the same position. Either way I love that it can be up to your own interpretation!
This is literally one time where From Software gave us the answer. I can't believe people are still not believing that Seluvis was always Pidia. The game files even tell us this because Seluvis's and Pidia's files are nested together, they also have the same voice actor and speak in the same accent. Selvuis is Pidia's alter ego and true identity in his own eyes.
I think the detail that Pidia is an Albanuric brings another layer to the story. It wasn’t until Miquella that a movement of love towards shunned creatures in the lands between, so even the Carian Royal family would have them in lowly positions of servitude. This may have been more merciful than the Golden Order’s treatment of Albanurics, but it’s not much better. Someone like Pidia would never be suspected of being a schemer, and he may have even been a close servant to Ranni. When he “is” Selivus, he speaks down to the Tarnished, and I think he likes being in a position where he can look down on others for a change.
That's what I always assumed. Gideon doesn't know about Pidia, so I assume that Seluvis was a human suit for Pidia so he could be among the masses without persecution.
@@minespatch I don't think Pidia's an albanuric though, his blood is red not silver. That could be an oversight, but it makes me think Seluvis tried something above his ability and paid for it harshly. It also wouldn't be the only time in the story that someone utilized multiple bodies at once.
During a recent playthrough, after showing the potion to Gideon and he calls Seluvis a "twisted dolly botherer" ... creepy AF, if you ask me. Pretty cool interaction though... Cheers mates!
It should come as no surprise. Once you have the power to bend anyone to your will, the possibilities become endless. Especially for those without a moral compass
One of my favorite things of story telling. In his basement. You see BIG enemies. At the front. His First Puppets. Then you see a woman enemy. Than a prettier one. As you go further back you see more of his "tastes"
By how the puppetry in this world seems to work, Seluvis surely was once an independent person, maybe even the apprentice of Pidia. There doesn't seem to be enough lore information though to give a timetable for when Pidia would have turned Seluvis into a puppet, but considering PIdia was charged with maintaining the puppets of the Knights of the Cuckoo (either the imprisoned survivors turned puppets or, as Square Table Gaming suggested, the souls of their fallen foes trapped within the puppets), this turn could have been around the time of or after the Assault on Caria Manor by the Knights of the Cuckoo during the shattering. One thing I"d like to add though, is that Pidia's meeting dialogue doesn't change, even if you don't talk to Ranni nor introduce yourself to Seluvis. Bear in mind that the first floor of the room Pidia is in contains a site of grace that the Tarnished almost certainly passed through on their way through the Manor, and that some of the puppets that Pidia is charged with maintaining are deployed with crossbows and swords to impede the Tarnished's progress. Unless through glitches, I don't think the player character can get to Pidia without first going through portions of the manor where Pidia, either with his own eyes or through the puppets', would have seen them coming.
This was my thought the first time through. I assumed he was referring to seeing me coming through the manor from up above And I guess the archers seem to be summons, if we think about how our summons work. And I assumed the preceptor that invades in the divine tower where Ronnie's body is after we turn it upside down, I figured that had something to do with seluvis. Maybe it's his old han form and he was turned into a puppet at some point
With all the evidence people offer on this theory I can’t recall a situation where they present the most damning evidence (imo) for Seluvis being Pidia’s puppet (TL;DR Pidia sells the map to the amber starlight). Seluvis is the only character I recall talking about the amber starlight, and one of the things you can buy from Pidia is the weathered map. When zoomed all the way in on the world map the bottom part of the map lines up with the steps up to the capital. The storm caller church north of the steps is also show on the map. And in the top part show whats looks like impacts of (amber) light, the beam in the middle of the array corresponds to the location of the amber starlight. Or at least if you visited all the locations you would find the amber starlight. So Pidia sells the map that just so happens to show the location of the amber starlight that Seluvis wants the tarnished to find…
There’s another theory floating around that Seluvis might have a Primal Glintstone to house his soul, due to his association with Sellen. So he could be a puppet, just in a very different sense. Following this train of thought, it could be possible that he just needs someone to grab the Primal Glintstone from his unresponsive body and shove it into a puppet that’s compatible with his soul to start scheming again. Or that he already did so the moment he learned of how his plans to make a puppet out of Ranni failed.
It's been awhile since I did Sellen's questline. I know we did something similar with her soul. Could we not retrieve her soul again after *her questline is complete to place it in another doll?
Seluvis offers the other puppets after loading the area twice and speaking to him twice. He'll offer the puppet dialogue if you reload -> speak to him -> reload - > speak. I do this every playthrough and I never talk to Pidia. I just stand in front of Cosby Jr. the whole time.
Not sure. You do have to have acquired two starlight shards already - I forgot to mention that. I don't know of any other requirements myself, though@@square-table-gaming
@@NickCombs Definitely someone as arrogant as him would've tried to destroy some lowly Tarnished but he runs away like he has no pride. That cowardly nature suits Pidia and even more so if they were the same person.
I have flip flopped between whether Seluvis is or isn't Pidia's puppet for a long time, though given the timing of both their deaths (one of them more literal at least), I saw little to no reason to believe otherwise. Regardless, still hate Seluvis' guts, but appreciate the Magic Scorpion Charm. Also can't get enough of that head tilt he does when he gets you in on his sneaky plans.
I think rani made him into a puppet at the end. The idea of having him drink his own potion seems to have a better ring to it. Pidia was killed once he lost control over the puppets
I have two problems with the Seluvis was a puppet the whole time theory. One, all of the other puppets are the translucent blue color, while their physical bodies are hidden somewhere else. His positioning could imply that he was made into a puppet at the END of his questline, but not that he was a puppet the whole time. Two, Iji is also found in the pose that the puppets' bodies are found in, although he is burning when we find him.
@@lettuceprime4922 the host trick mirror is between two tarnished in each other's worlds. So for him to look "normal" with the mirror, it would mean he is merely visiting in this world and is here summoned by someone else. He needs a host to mirror.
I don't see how the first one really plays a factor since that's only the case when you're summoning them remotely as Spirit Ashes because you can't exactly carry around 6 bodies to fight for you. You're not actually using the puppet itself just an apparition of it. Seluvis would have been the actual physical puppet just like the ones that killed Pidia. Likewise it's likely that Finger Maiden Therolina was already a puppet when you encounter her during the Radahn Festival and the physical puppet was sent to help you and Blaidd fight on behalf of Seluvis. This is why she doesn't say anything and just bows. After all what other reason would she have to be there?
Also when Seluvis asks you to find amber starlight - suposing he really wants you to find it and bring it to him, and suposing Seluvis is Pidia's puppet - why the hell he doesn't give you the map that Pidia sells that shows the location of that item? It seems to me after all that Seluvis is in fact Pidia's puppet, but sometimes From Software tries too hard to make overcomplicated questlines so you have to be really "smart" and "hardcore" to realize what's going on, but doesn't put the effort to make the adjustments that would be necessary for everything to make sense.. it's bad gamedesign
I never met Pidia in 3 playthroughs and always thought it was Gideon puppetering Seluvis. Because his quest has close connection to him and the things Gideon says about Nepheli. All this time i thought Albinaurics were 'goodguys'.
So...anyone think he killed our finger maiden? I mean, there is a dead maiden in the starting room of the game. And this guy sells a finger maiden puppet.
@@zipzapper0 I suppose. However, Ranni seems to have some apparent connections with Melina. And Melina needed a conveniently maidenless tarnished. And it isn't like Ranni wasn't paying attention to the area either, since she shows up. Also, I am forced to ask: What does Seluvis actually... do? I mean, he ostensibly serves Ranni, but what is his job? If his job is covert operations like this, then his service makes some degree of sense, as well as Ranni's wariness of him.
The Finger Maiden puppet he sells does have a note about never finding her partner, and us never having our maiden... Maybe it's just a big coincidence.
I never did give nepheli the potion so i never knew you could pick up her ashes from pidias body!! Thats so big! I speculated that they were the same person but this just solidifies it
Though I prefer to think of Seluvis as a puppet, it is possible that Ranni employs irony in posing Seluvis (and also Iji) as if they were dolls. It could symbolize how she has been using them all along.
I would like to give a second opinion to the matter of seluvis slumping over as he was a puppet. Personally I believe seluvis was a puppet but, just like sellen, had seluvis' primordial glintstone in it and when Ranni punishes him for his scheme she either rips it out or destroys it. I say this because in sellen's quest after you take out her primordial glintsone she becomes a husk according to Jerren. The pidia thing may just be the puppets no longer being controlled and regaining some sort of free will so they attack Pidia.
This is a damn good theory! I never thought of it! Seluvis and Pidia death always left me confused as to what happened to them but with this it makes so much sense!
I think Ranni was just waiting for the snake to bite... I also believe Seluvis was once a man of stature, we couldnt be sure wether he was already a puppet when he made friends with Gideon or was still a man.... very interesting both dote for Dolores... Seems Seluvis/Pidia always wants something from Gideon either out of jealousy or hate.... Elden Ring still has lot of lore to tell...Wait... something hit me... we all knew Gideon is kinda a bigot himself... he has this thing for the Albinaurics! He didnt have any remorse obliterating the village of the Albinaurics just to find the dectus item, seems pidia have already marked gideon for this.
ive done seluvis's quest so many times. i would even buy everytthing from pidia and never visit him again. i never thought to go check him out once ranni kills seluvis. the revelation is so creepy.
A little late to this but wouldn’t this also explain how Gideon might have known where the secret half medallion was and why he’d destroy the town for it
I think Blaidd forced Seluvis to drink one of his own potions after discovering his plot to betray Ranni. The half-wolf doesn't suffer traitors gladly and it was a poetic end for a fiend like Seluvis.
@@square-table-gaming Your logic is correct, but Blaidd somehow manages to escape the evergaol and arrive at Ranni's Rise for the conclusion of her questline whether you help him or not. I don't believe it's ever explained how he manages that, but I suppose Ranni could have freed him. FromSoft don't really do branching questlines, so where lore is concerned I generally assume that every stage of a quest was completed. Blaidd killing Seluvis makes sense to me because we first encounter him hunting down another traitor (Darriwil) and he openly admits how much he loathes and distrusts the sorcerer. As Ranni's most trusted warrior, he would also be her first choice for eliminating Seluvis if she were to discover his plot.
Nowhere in the lore does it specify puppets can't talk. That said, if they do, you'd likely hear the voice of the person controlling the puppet, which makes perfect sense as Pidia and Seluvis are voiced by the same person.
More of a personal opinion here but I think if the intention was to insulate that Ranni made him drink the potion the player would’ve been able to pick up the newly created Seluvis puppet from his death site. The voice actor highly implies he’s the same guy and puppeteer
@square-table-gaming wild how weak we truely are compared to her despite us going on a demigod murder spree. Then again none of them are in their prime so i dont wanna imagine how powerful they were 😶
Perhaps Pidia or Selivus was the last apprentice that had been mentioned. Turned into a puppet by his former master or apprentice. Which is why the puppets may have been loyal to the puppet of their original creator and turned against Pidia after Selivus' puppet was rendered unresponsive.
I like how selluvis talks and I don't like ranni so I don't hate him like others do. Though the way he talks about what he may or may not be doing with said puppets does give me apprehension. Though this ain't as concrete as the accusations towards someone like hisoka from hxh. Overall I much enjoyed talking to him. He ain't the nicest in the lands between but considering his 180 from thinking your trash with trusting you with taking control of a demigod. I think that's decent character development Unlike some other npcs who will just straight up attempt to kill you even after helping them.
I like to assume that Pidia wanted a human form so he used Seluvis to integrate with society since albaneurics are treated with prjudice. With Delores, Pidia was greedy and wanted her badly. When you do the dungeater questline and after Seluvis is killed, Pidia has Delores's spirit ash. In the Nepheli questline, you can purchase Delores for now Pidia has the Nepheli ash instead. So something Gideon did during his partnership with Seluvis must have really pissed off Pidia to the point, he'd go after Gideon's adopted daughter.
I used to think that this theory was just a set of circumstances that people think are connected but in reality they really aren't but after hearing that Pidia's death was specifically mentioned in Seluvis' character page is really hard to disprove as being nothing more than a coincidence
I haven't finished watching yet, but I'd like to suggest a future topic! Wilhelm and Vargram! Wilhelm glimpsed the Primeval Current, much like Lusat and Azur. He even has dulled glintstone "cancers" on his hands, shown in the Errant Sorcerer Set, also reflecting Lusat and Azur, but he hasn't been overcome by it. He resisted the allure. Vargram is also interesting because he wields the Godslaying Greatsword, which is a relic of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, an Empyrean. He wishes to become a wolf, the shadow of an Empyrean, and I have been entertaining the thought that this is literal. We already have an established precedent for ani-morphing in the crystal crabs, wyrms, Rya, and possibly something I've even missed. Demi-humans? Beastmen? Who knows, I'm speculating a lot, but there's a lot there to play with.
How i understood their situation was seluvis helped Ranni transfer her soul into the puppet thinking he could potentially turn her into a mindless puppet, but his potion was not strong enough to work on her at the time and her plans went as foward. So enters us into the mix as he finds a new way to take control over Ranni, but i was unsure if she always knew about Pidia or found out before she enters her final phases of her quest somehow?
I think Ranni knew all along, as Pidia also dies if you hand over the Fingerslayer Blade. This happens whether or not you did anything related to Seluvis or Pidia. On an unrelated note, there is an item that I don't think anyone has discussed before, and it relates to to a strange enemy that also has little lore about it. Does the Shield of the Guilty relate to the Bloodthorn Sorcerers, or is it just a coincidence? I can't tell.
Do you mean the small sheld that can be found in Demi human forest in the weaping peninsula of Limgrave ? No, I don't think so because there is no description for the red star, or sorcerer Alberich, or the one eyed fell god.
@@alexandermorgan5958 I think there is a connection between them, because thorn sorcerers are always found with Fire Monks and Fire Prelates who were a followers of the Fire Gaints and their One Eyed Fell God before their defeat against Godfrey and his Crucble Knighs.
There is no reason why Ranni would kill Seluvis if you never did his quest but he becomes a corpse but she also kills Pidia too. This can only be explained if Pidia was controlling Seluvis as a puppet and she was killing Pidia as a loose end before she continued her journey.
You have to talk to Pidia, whether you already have or not, to get the second puppet dialogue. Many thought this was a glitch myself included but glitch or not, you do have to speak to him before you can get a second puppet
Nope. I’ve gotten both puppets without talking to pidia, and then the third (dung eater), and then had selivus die, and then got pidia’s bell bearing when the puppets master no longer controlled them, due to dying, and killed pidia.
I have two thoughts on this. .1. Pidia is the “apprentice” that Sel mentions in his dialog and either Ranni or Gidion force him to drink a tonic and when he becomes a puppet himself he loses control of his own puppets thus allowing them to attack Pidia. 2. Pidia is STILL the apprentice Sel speaks about BUT it is actually Pidia that turns Sel into a puppet. Being the lesser puppeteer, he is unaware that by doing so, he weakens the control over the puppets that are under his masters control. The problem with the whole “Sel is Pidia’s puppet the whole time” theory for me is that no where in the game does it state or show that puppets can literally impersonate a person. They are blue phantoms, essentially the SOULS seem to be bound and the bodies immobile. So the act of turning a puppeteer into a puppet seems the most likely to illicit the reaction of the once immobilized physical bodies actually being able to act with their own accord once more.
We actually do see a puppet masquerading as a person in Caelid during the Radahn Festival. Finger Maiden Theolina, a puppet of Seluvis' stands with the other champions in the gathering area before the battle begins and she doesn't speak. I believe she doesn't speak because if she did, we'd here Seluvis/Pidias voice.
Another problem i have with sel being pidias puppet is the fact that we have pretty extensive lore on seluvis life as a tarnished of the roundtable and on his motivations and (lack of) character. There is a whole story about him being part of a love triangle with gideon and delores and how his jealousy led him to turn delores into a puppet just to spite the both of them after being spurned by her. Then when we meet him he sends us on a quest to kidnap gideons adoptive daughter meaning he still holds a grudge and taking one woman in gideons life away from him still isnt enough for seluvis, he need the other too. Seluvis is obsessed with Gideon, he is spiteful, he is more than happy to hurt bystanders in his personal quest for revenge, in fact he seems to prefer doing so, given he never targets gideon directly. And we know he has been like this since a time where the roundtable housed more than a handful of tarnished. If pidia has really made seluvis his puppet sometime after he left the roundtable , this implies he has been extremely committed to impersonating him to the point where he continues acting on seluvis's grudge against a man that should mean nothing to pidia himself and frankly i dont know why pidia would bother to go to such lengths. If he wants to ingratiate himself with ranni for some reason, indulging in seluvi's personal grudges has the risk of jeopardizing her plans by attracting gideon's attention. If he wants to get closer to ranni to turn her into a puppet, why not impersonate someone she actually trusts instead of someone everyone clearly hates the guts of and is only tolerated?
@@square-table-gaming Good point. The fact that we see a direct puppet employed by him that don't speak and adding that Seluvis is a puppet, they both share the same voice actor so that means puppets can be talk by ventriloquism but since he has a old man's voice can't speak for 'Theolina.'
Honestly, I just despise Selvius/Pidia. Their reasoning is fair, since Pidia is an albinauric, he’s been discriminated against his whole life, but… being a “doll botherer”, imprisoning people in dolls for his own twisted enjoyment… it’s just so gross. It definitely adds a layer of visceral depravity to the game and its many stories, for sure.
Holy crap. Meant to edit my earlier comment and deleted it by mistake. Let me try this again… I know I’m very late to this party, but selivus is close to the Latin word for slave. It’s not direct, but it’s close enough to Seluvis to be kinda interesting. Additionally, a quick (and possibly not very accurate at all) search for Pidia shows it could be related to the Sanskrit word Pidita, which can mean tormented or oppressed. Both of these could also be a big case of confirmation bias on my part, but I still found it pretty cool.
The “seluvis is pidia” theory doesn’t make sense to me. If seluvis is a puppet being controlled by pidia, why would that puppet’s “death” cause the other puppets to turn on the man who was actually pulling the strings?
@@square-table-gamingso then puppets don’t listen to their master? Why would pidia for some reason create puppets around himself, then give control to a person he plans to betray?
Based on your theory isn't it possible that who Pidia is referring to when he says, 'I loved you with all I had', was Ranni not the puppets? She was originally a member of the royal family, would have spent time in the manor and likely would have been known to Pidia. It would be motive for turning her into a puppet and it supports his comments of not liking puppets when you first meet him. The idea that he's been watching Ranni since infancy is also extra creepy in a way that I always got from Pidia.
Selivus says "to think, this was once a demigods very fate, my oh my!" So which demigod was turned puppet prior to this event? Or am I reading that statement wrong.
This new trend of thinking that Seluvis was *already* a puppet and/or controlled by Pidia isn't actually supported by anything that is actually in the game, at all (and ironically this video does a wonderful job of demonstrating that fact, making it quite troubling that you would present it as confirmed, to the point of literally calling it a fact). And I find it odd that so many people have latched onto it without even bothering to consider 1. how it seemingly contradicts with what else is in the game, and 2. the existence of any other, more logical explanations that do not seemingly contradict what else is in the game. The reason I say it doesn't work is simply because the game heavily implies that puppets can't speak. And Seluvis does. So that's a contradiction. In addition to that, the notion that they could have fooled Ranni and that Ranni didn't know about Pidia is not only laughably silly, but it also contradicts with the fact that Pidia dies in the end. So. I present to you an alternate explanation that actually makes sense with what is in the game, doesn't seemingly contradict anything else in the game, is far more logically sound and straightforward, and requires fewer logical leaps (Occam's razor): Ranni turned Seluvis into a puppet and then used the other puppets to kill Pidia.
People aren't turned into puppets by having their actual physical bodies turned into puppets. Also, nowhere is it said that puppets cannot speak. If anything, Seluvis and Pidia having the same voice actor heavily implies that we are hearing a modified version of Pidias voice through Seluvis. I don't see how any of the points presented here contradict the idea that Seluvis was Pidias puppet. Also, the idea that Ranni has the ability to turn Seluvis into a puppet actually does contradict established ideas that Ranni needed Seluvis due to his ability create and control puppets.
My theory is that it didnt work on Ranni bc Ranni herself is a puppet of Miquella and the age of the moon and stars is only way to make eclipse, Miquella have a plan B.
I wonder why Pidia hates Gideon so much. He took Dolores from his side many years before the albinauric massacre, so it can't be the reason why he want every Gideon's beloved ones.
Ranni's teacher was almost definitely not the gloam eyed queen as they wielded very different powers. From a timeline perspective it wouldn't work either as Marika defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen well before Ranni was born.
is there any details missed out from the fact that rannis body itself is a puppet as her true one is burnt to a crisp at the top of the tower? Maybe the potion cant work on her as she already is a puppet or something along those lines
Ranni, in retaliation and leaving for her journey, made Seluvis into HER puppet. That’s why he’s “dead” in the puppet position. Pidia, as others pointed out, is on the balcony above the 2nd grace in Caria Manor. He saw us enter. The very next enemies are Cuckoo Puppets, he sent them against us, and that is why he apologizes upon our first meeting. Seluvis and Pidia are not puppets, just one was turned into a puppet as revenge by Ranni.
The assertion that Ranni made him a puppet is pure speculation with nothing concrete to back it up. The theory of Seluvis always being a puppet has far too much evidence to be coincidence.
So, I just spent a few hours and checked your theory on what triggers the continuation of the Seluvis quest where he offers to sell you a second puppet, and it's something more than just visiting Pidia. I've done the quest at least a dozen times, tried all kinds of things to get him to sell you your next puppets, and no single thing I've tried works. I just keep playing and come back to him naturally later and he offers it.
this is so interesting! i may have missed this, if the video hasn't already addressed it, but when you kill Pidia, will Selivus then also slump over like he does in the end of the quest lines? I'm sure that this would be definitive proof that they're connected to being one and the same!
You cannot kill Pidia without breaking the game. Unfortunately it seems no line of code was made to connect them in that way because it's supposed to be impossible.
What happens if you just kill Pidia the first time you see him? I'm not sure if that's possible, but if it is, killing him and nothing happening to Seluvis would disprove this theory
It's not possible as any and all ways of dealing damage can't be done while in his room. In order to kill him you'd need to break the game using mods, so there was clearly intent to make it impossible to kill Pidia so as not to interrupt the quest.
Thank you! It's been a while I don't play the game, so I didn't remember he was in a safe room. So I stand corrected, the theory in the video makes 100% sense!
God, the implications. I never did his questline cuz of how repulsive it was. So I didnt realize he was interested in the puppets in kind of a perverted sex way until I watched this.
I like your video and I agreed with the theory, but I i wanna point something out. You said that pose is only use with Puppets then is Iji a puppet ? Because when he dies he gets the same pose. Just a thought
It's a good observation but I'd argue that Iji's pose is slightly different. Also he's covered in Black flame and implied to have been killed by the black knife assassins.
@@square-table-gamingboth are on their knees arms at side head tilted back. Not to mention we know that human selivus made the first person-puppet we know of (aside from nox ladies), which he gave to pidia. He made this puppet before joining the carian family, so he couldn’t have been working for pidia.
I don't believe Seluvis was a puppet, it seemed to me that Seluvis was what he seemed and pidia was the caretaker of his puppets. His death position is just an irony, a final humiliation from Ranni to say that Seluvis was never more than her puppet. To me, the whole pidia being the puppet master is waaay to convoluted. its too many layers for no reason and for me at least its a more satisfying story at face value than with the extra pidia bit.
In fact, the whole Ranni questline is the most intersting in the game, with good characters, but it suffers so much with unnecessary obscurity and complications for no good reason that it seems sometimes that all these convolutions serve to give the impression that there's more to be said by these games than there is in fact. Why, for example, make you go back to the first vendor to learn the gesture that turns you able to speak to Blaidd and engage properly with this group of NPCs? Complexity is not always a sign of good storytelling..
If you attack and try to kill Seluvis does he really die? No. You hit like a ghost and he vanishes. This means two things: he's a projection, or he is formless just like Ranni. They took control of a doll/puppet to live longer so technically they can't die by normal means. That's why when he dies his "doll" is left behind, and after that his puppets just go murder Pidia doesn't mean Pidia was the master mind he says I am charged with maintaining these ghastly dolls." that doesn't sound like Master mind he is just a helper for Seluvis nothing more
Possible, but it ignores Pidia lieing about his proclivity for the dolls as well. The idea here is that Pidia wouldn't want anyone to know he's a mastermind, it's an act.
@@square-table-gaming There's no way I'm hell Pidia an Albinauric a dude (puppet) or whatever is capable of all that. Seluvis was always a traitor but had his uses for Ranni when he didn't any more she just took him out and then his puppets went on a rampage to kill Pidia
@@Ang3lD0wn why is it impossible? We know albinaurics are talented with magic and the female variations are very strong. Not to mention, they weren't always legless, their legs fade over time, so Pidia hasn't always been so pathetic looking.
3:50 "now I shall hand over the potion in question" is it just me or is that a really odd way of speaking. Sounds like the words of someone who lacks full agency over their own body. Much like a puppet. Or someone speaking through one
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
I always thought Ranni forced him to drink the potion. Fallen to his own schemes has a poetic justice to it. And then Pidia was attacked for being the puppets caretaker
I like to think the Black Knife assassins force him to drink it since they also go after two later on once the questline is over.
Just so he can get a taste of his own medicine, literally.
@@HeinzBeanz2002 Black Knives were betrayed by Ranni IMO. Alecto lost her daughter escaping Leyndell and Ranni locked Alecto in an Evergaol on Moonlight Plateau.
Thought this ar first, but even if you don't do his quest he is found lifeless the same position. Either way I love that it can be up to your own interpretation!
Yeah that's what I assumed too
Doesn’t he get killed by Blaidd?
Seluvis also speaks with pidia's accent once he starts talking to you about puppets. Nice touch
Very subtle but wow, you can really hear it with the "i"'s
This is literally one time where From Software gave us the answer. I can't believe people are still not believing that Seluvis was always Pidia. The game files even tell us this because Seluvis's and Pidia's files are nested together, they also have the same voice actor and speak in the same accent.
Selvuis is Pidia's alter ego and true identity in his own eyes.
Preach
They do not have the same voice actor.
I think the detail that Pidia is an Albanuric brings another layer to the story.
It wasn’t until Miquella that a movement of love towards shunned creatures in the lands between, so even the Carian Royal family would have them in lowly positions of servitude. This may have been more merciful than the Golden Order’s treatment of Albanurics, but it’s not much better.
Someone like Pidia would never be suspected of being a schemer, and he may have even been a close servant to Ranni.
When he “is” Selivus, he speaks down to the Tarnished, and I think he likes being in a position where he can look down on others for a change.
That's what I always assumed. Gideon doesn't know about Pidia, so I assume that Seluvis was a human suit for Pidia so he could be among the masses without persecution.
@@minespatch I don't think Pidia's an albanuric though, his blood is red not silver. That could be an oversight, but it makes me think Seluvis tried something above his ability and paid for it harshly. It also wouldn't be the only time in the story that someone utilized multiple bodies at once.
The blood being red makes me think of the black flame on Iji, so you might be onto something. @@knotgradaunknown7414
@@knotgradaunknown7414 Could be an oversight. I think in case of some attacks Albinaurics (hope I spells that right) also bleed red.
of course pidia would go after gideon’s loved ones. did you see how gideon treated that albinauric village?
During a recent playthrough, after showing the potion to Gideon and he calls Seluvis a "twisted dolly botherer" ... creepy AF, if you ask me. Pretty cool interaction though... Cheers mates!
It should come as no surprise. Once you have the power to bend anyone to your will, the possibilities become endless. Especially for those without a moral compass
One of my favorite things of story telling. In his basement. You see BIG enemies. At the front. His First Puppets. Then you see a woman enemy. Than a prettier one. As you go further back you see more of his "tastes"
Yeah. He’s a pervert. What’s up with Ellen and then his bed…
By how the puppetry in this world seems to work, Seluvis surely was once an independent person, maybe even the apprentice of Pidia. There doesn't seem to be enough lore information though to give a timetable for when Pidia would have turned Seluvis into a puppet, but considering PIdia was charged with maintaining the puppets of the Knights of the Cuckoo (either the imprisoned survivors turned puppets or, as Square Table Gaming suggested, the souls of their fallen foes trapped within the puppets), this turn could have been around the time of or after the Assault on Caria Manor by the Knights of the Cuckoo during the shattering.
One thing I"d like to add though, is that Pidia's meeting dialogue doesn't change, even if you don't talk to Ranni nor introduce yourself to Seluvis. Bear in mind that the first floor of the room Pidia is in contains a site of grace that the Tarnished almost certainly passed through on their way through the Manor, and that some of the puppets that Pidia is charged with maintaining are deployed with crossbows and swords to impede the Tarnished's progress. Unless through glitches, I don't think the player character can get to Pidia without first going through portions of the manor where Pidia, either with his own eyes or through the puppets', would have seen them coming.
This was my thought the first time through. I assumed he was referring to seeing me coming through the manor from up above
And I guess the archers seem to be summons, if we think about how our summons work.
And I assumed the preceptor that invades in the divine tower where Ronnie's body is after we turn it upside down, I figured that had something to do with seluvis. Maybe it's his old han form and he was turned into a puppet at some point
Holy shit, his accent completely changes to Pidias the second you start getting buddy buddy about puppets..
With all the evidence people offer on this theory I can’t recall a situation where they present the most damning evidence (imo) for Seluvis being Pidia’s puppet (TL;DR Pidia sells the map to the amber starlight).
Seluvis is the only character I recall talking about the amber starlight, and one of the things you can buy from Pidia is the weathered map. When zoomed all the way in on the world map the bottom part of the map lines up with the steps up to the capital. The storm caller church north of the steps is also show on the map. And in the top part show whats looks like impacts of (amber) light, the beam in the middle of the array corresponds to the location of the amber starlight. Or at least if you visited all the locations you would find the amber starlight. So Pidia sells the map that just so happens to show the location of the amber starlight that Seluvis wants the tarnished to find…
There’s another theory floating around that Seluvis might have a Primal Glintstone to house his soul, due to his association with Sellen. So he could be a puppet, just in a very different sense.
Following this train of thought, it could be possible that he just needs someone to grab the Primal Glintstone from his unresponsive body and shove it into a puppet that’s compatible with his soul to start scheming again. Or that he already did so the moment he learned of how his plans to make a puppet out of Ranni failed.
That’s actually a pretty solid theory.
It's been awhile since I did Sellen's questline. I know we did something similar with her soul. Could we not retrieve her soul again after *her questline is complete to place it in another doll?
Finally someone who actually talks about the connection between Pidia and Seluvis.
So few people even get it.
Seluvis offers the other puppets after loading the area twice and speaking to him twice. He'll offer the puppet dialogue if you reload -> speak to him -> reload - > speak. I do this every playthrough and I never talk to Pidia. I just stand in front of Cosby Jr. the whole time.
Tried this multiple times on 2 different files. Could not get it to trigger the same way. Maybe an issue with playing on PS5 vs PC? Not sure.
Not sure. You do have to have acquired two starlight shards already - I forgot to mention that. I don't know of any other requirements myself, though@@square-table-gaming
lol cosby jr
@@square-table-gaminghe offered me other puppets after summoning the one he gave me and letting it die
I just realized Seluvis pronounces oafishness as "oh-fishness" which is delightful :)
I guess this explains why selivus doesn't die or fight back when you hit him. He disappears
He'd not be fit to put up a fight if he was a real person. If he was, he would not resort to subterfuge.
@@NickCombs I see. He does seem like the type that doesn't like to get his hands dirty
Woahh I never even noticed that, what a neat little detail
@@NickCombs Definitely someone as arrogant as him would've tried to destroy some lowly Tarnished but he runs away like he has no pride. That cowardly nature suits Pidia and even more so if they were the same person.
I have flip flopped between whether Seluvis is or isn't Pidia's puppet for a long time, though given the timing of both their deaths (one of them more literal at least), I saw little to no reason to believe otherwise.
Regardless, still hate Seluvis' guts, but appreciate the Magic Scorpion Charm. Also can't get enough of that head tilt he does when he gets you in on his sneaky plans.
I think rani made him into a puppet at the end. The idea of having him drink his own potion seems to have a better ring to it. Pidia was killed once he lost control over the puppets
I like the idea but it seems like puppets don't use the original bodies of the people they were made from.
@@square-table-gaming they do if you give the Dung Eater the Potion his body will wander to Seluvis's Hideout
I have two problems with the Seluvis was a puppet the whole time theory.
One, all of the other puppets are the translucent blue color, while their physical bodies are hidden somewhere else. His positioning could imply that he was made into a puppet at the END of his questline, but not that he was a puppet the whole time.
Two, Iji is also found in the pose that the puppets' bodies are found in, although he is burning when we find him.
Hosts Trick Mirror, or whatever it's called.
@@lettuceprime4922 the host trick mirror is between two tarnished in each other's worlds. So for him to look "normal" with the mirror, it would mean he is merely visiting in this world and is here summoned by someone else. He needs a host to mirror.
@@twinlyplays - or he has a version of the trick mirror that doesn't involve traveling to another world 🤯 🧠
I don't see how the first one really plays a factor since that's only the case when you're summoning them remotely as Spirit Ashes because you can't exactly carry around 6 bodies to fight for you. You're not actually using the puppet itself just an apparition of it. Seluvis would have been the actual physical puppet just like the ones that killed Pidia.
Likewise it's likely that Finger Maiden Therolina was already a puppet when you encounter her during the Radahn Festival and the physical puppet was sent to help you and Blaidd fight on behalf of Seluvis. This is why she doesn't say anything and just bows. After all what other reason would she have to be there?
Also when Seluvis asks you to find amber starlight - suposing he really wants you to find it and bring it to him, and suposing Seluvis is Pidia's puppet - why the hell he doesn't give you the map that Pidia sells that shows the location of that item? It seems to me after all that Seluvis is in fact Pidia's puppet, but sometimes From Software tries too hard to make overcomplicated questlines so you have to be really "smart" and "hardcore" to realize what's going on, but doesn't put the effort to make the adjustments that would be necessary for everything to make sense.. it's bad gamedesign
I never met Pidia in 3 playthroughs and always thought it was Gideon puppetering Seluvis. Because his quest has close connection to him and the things Gideon says about Nepheli. All this time i thought Albinaurics were 'goodguys'.
So...anyone think he killed our finger maiden?
I mean, there is a dead maiden in the starting room of the game. And this guy sells a finger maiden puppet.
That seems to be implied as Varre's doing, as he is thoroughly aware that we lack a maiden
@@zipzapper0 I suppose. However, Ranni seems to have some apparent connections with Melina. And Melina needed a conveniently maidenless tarnished. And it isn't like Ranni wasn't paying attention to the area either, since she shows up.
Also, I am forced to ask: What does Seluvis actually... do? I mean, he ostensibly serves Ranni, but what is his job? If his job is covert operations like this, then his service makes some degree of sense, as well as Ranni's wariness of him.
@lemeres2478 Maybe he helped maintain Ranni's porcelain body and made the miniature Ranni?
The Finger Maiden puppet he sells does have a note about never finding her partner, and us never having our maiden... Maybe it's just a big coincidence.
You know, I just realized you probably find the Blaidd head behind his tower because he was going to make a Blaidd puppet.
I never did give nepheli the potion so i never knew you could pick up her ashes from pidias body!! Thats so big! I speculated that they were the same person but this just solidifies it
Though I prefer to think of Seluvis as a puppet, it is possible that Ranni employs irony in posing Seluvis (and also Iji) as if they were dolls. It could symbolize how she has been using them all along.
no
@@yrvjutrtubxsyi Thanks for confirming, Miyazaki-san
@@NickCombs You're welcome
I would like to give a second opinion to the matter of seluvis slumping over as he was a puppet. Personally I believe seluvis was a puppet but, just like sellen, had seluvis' primordial glintstone in it and when Ranni punishes him for his scheme she either rips it out or destroys it. I say this because in sellen's quest after you take out her primordial glintsone she becomes a husk according to Jerren. The pidia thing may just be the puppets no longer being controlled and regaining some sort of free will so they attack Pidia.
This is a damn good theory! I never thought of it! Seluvis and Pidia death always left me confused as to what happened to them but with this it makes so much sense!
I think Ranni was just waiting for the snake to bite... I also believe Seluvis was once a man of stature, we couldnt be sure wether he was already a puppet when he made friends with Gideon or was still a man.... very interesting both dote for Dolores... Seems Seluvis/Pidia always wants something from Gideon either out of jealousy or hate.... Elden Ring still has lot of lore to tell...Wait... something hit me... we all knew Gideon is kinda a bigot himself... he has this thing for the Albinaurics! He didnt have any remorse obliterating the village of the Albinaurics just to find the dectus item, seems pidia have already marked gideon for this.
ive done seluvis's quest so many times. i would even buy everytthing from pidia and never visit him again. i never thought to go check him out once ranni kills seluvis. the revelation is so creepy.
A little late to this but wouldn’t this also explain how Gideon might have known where the secret half medallion was and why he’d destroy the town for it
I think Blaidd forced Seluvis to drink one of his own potions after discovering his plot to betray Ranni. The half-wolf doesn't suffer traitors gladly and it was a poetic end for a fiend like Seluvis.
That only works if blaidd isn't locked away in an evergaol when you finish the quest
@@square-table-gaming Your logic is correct, but Blaidd somehow manages to escape the evergaol and arrive at Ranni's Rise for the conclusion of her questline whether you help him or not. I don't believe it's ever explained how he manages that, but I suppose Ranni could have freed him. FromSoft don't really do branching questlines, so where lore is concerned I generally assume that every stage of a quest was completed. Blaidd killing Seluvis makes sense to me because we first encounter him hunting down another traitor (Darriwil) and he openly admits how much he loathes and distrusts the sorcerer. As Ranni's most trusted warrior, he would also be her first choice for eliminating Seluvis if she were to discover his plot.
I thought that the puppets didn’t talk. Going with this idea, Ranni would have forced Seluvis to drink the potion meant for her.
Nowhere in the lore does it specify puppets can't talk. That said, if they do, you'd likely hear the voice of the person controlling the puppet, which makes perfect sense as Pidia and Seluvis are voiced by the same person.
More of a personal opinion here but I think if the intention was to insulate that Ranni made him drink the potion the player would’ve been able to pick up the newly created Seluvis puppet from his death site. The voice actor highly implies he’s the same guy and puppeteer
Woaaah did Ranni just erase you at the end? Didnt know she could use hakai lol
Yup, if you try to make her a puppet then keep talking to her she murders you.
@square-table-gaming wild how weak we truely are compared to her despite us going on a demigod murder spree. Then again none of them are in their prime so i dont wanna imagine how powerful they were 😶
The master of all puppets! Theyre pulling your strings!
Im pretty good at that, huh?
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams!!
@@monsterzero9238 Oh jeez what a fool i would be to do that to myself. Lord help that guy, huh?
Perhaps Pidia or Selivus was the last apprentice that had been mentioned. Turned into a puppet by his former master or apprentice. Which is why the puppets may have been loyal to the puppet of their original creator and turned against Pidia after Selivus' puppet was rendered unresponsive.
YEAHHH BABY THATS WHAT IVE BEEN WAITING FOR WOOOOOOO
I like how selluvis talks and I don't like ranni so I don't hate him like others do.
Though the way he talks about what he may or may not be doing with said puppets does give me apprehension. Though this ain't as concrete as the accusations towards someone like hisoka from hxh.
Overall I much enjoyed talking to him. He ain't the nicest in the lands between but considering his 180 from thinking your trash with trusting you with taking control of a demigod. I think that's decent character development
Unlike some other npcs who will just straight up attempt to kill you even after helping them.
I like to assume that Pidia wanted a human form so he used Seluvis to integrate with society since albaneurics are treated with prjudice. With Delores, Pidia was greedy and wanted her badly. When you do the dungeater questline and after Seluvis is killed, Pidia has Delores's spirit ash. In the Nepheli questline, you can purchase Delores for now Pidia has the Nepheli ash instead. So something Gideon did during his partnership with Seluvis must have really pissed off Pidia to the point, he'd go after Gideon's adopted daughter.
These thumbnails are amazing, it's always nice to see these videos in my subscriptions
I used to think that this theory was just a set of circumstances that people think are connected but in reality they really aren't but after hearing that Pidia's death was specifically mentioned in Seluvis' character page is really hard to disprove as being nothing more than a coincidence
My fave channel! Time for a fat bowl of lore flakes
You missed the opportunity to call this a nice helping of Lore-eos 😂
I've beat Elden Ring 5 times and have never met Pidia. Well time for another play thorugh.
I kinda went refreshed a couple of times and Seluvis storyline continued without talking to Pidia
They got alotta mileage out of that Seluvis lean in animation
i tough ranni got a "bit" mad and made him drink his own potion
I haven't finished watching yet, but I'd like to suggest a future topic! Wilhelm and Vargram! Wilhelm glimpsed the Primeval Current, much like Lusat and Azur. He even has dulled glintstone "cancers" on his hands, shown in the Errant Sorcerer Set, also reflecting Lusat and Azur, but he hasn't been overcome by it. He resisted the allure. Vargram is also interesting because he wields the Godslaying Greatsword, which is a relic of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, an Empyrean. He wishes to become a wolf, the shadow of an Empyrean, and I have been entertaining the thought that this is literal. We already have an established precedent for ani-morphing in the crystal crabs, wyrms, Rya, and possibly something I've even missed. Demi-humans? Beastmen? Who knows, I'm speculating a lot, but there's a lot there to play with.
We have a video on them! Check it out in our playlist.
How i understood their situation was seluvis helped Ranni transfer her soul into the puppet thinking he could potentially turn her into a mindless puppet, but his potion was not strong enough to work on her at the time and her plans went as foward. So enters us into the mix as he finds a new way to take control over Ranni, but i was unsure if she always knew about Pidia or found out before she enters her final phases of her quest somehow?
I think Ran I blasted him with magic and set him up like that as a message/ironic justice.
if you listen closly to Selivus' voice, it almost sounds like Pidia's voice, but younger?? kinda weird and creepy if you think about it
It's the same voice actor
I thought i was a badass until my wife beat this whole quest and schooled me on the lore.
I think Ranni knew all along, as Pidia also dies if you hand over the Fingerslayer Blade. This happens whether or not you did anything related to Seluvis or Pidia.
On an unrelated note, there is an item that I don't think anyone has discussed before, and it relates to to a strange enemy that also has little lore about it. Does the Shield of the Guilty relate to the Bloodthorn Sorcerers, or is it just a coincidence? I can't tell.
Do you mean the small sheld that can be found in Demi human forest in the weaping peninsula of Limgrave ? No, I don't think so because there is no description for the red star, or sorcerer Alberich, or the one eyed fell god.
@@Hoarahchadtheallgrabbing To be clear, the Blood Star and the Fell God of the Fire Giants are two different entities, right?
@@alexandermorgan5958 I think there is a connection between them, because thorn sorcerers are always found with Fire Monks and Fire Prelates who were a followers of the Fire Gaints and their One Eyed Fell God before their defeat against Godfrey and his Crucble Knighs.
Thorns in ER often sign at heresy and crime, so its likely just a coincidence
There is no reason why Ranni would kill Seluvis if you never did his quest but he becomes a corpse but she also kills Pidia too. This can only be explained if Pidia was controlling Seluvis as a puppet and she was killing Pidia as a loose end before she continued her journey.
You have to talk to Pidia, whether you already have or not, to get the second puppet dialogue. Many thought this was a glitch myself included but glitch or not, you do have to speak to him before you can get a second puppet
Nope.
I’ve gotten both puppets without talking to pidia, and then the third (dung eater), and then had selivus die, and then got pidia’s bell bearing when the puppets master no longer controlled them, due to dying, and killed pidia.
I have two thoughts on this.
.1. Pidia is the “apprentice” that Sel mentions in his dialog and either Ranni or Gidion force him to drink a tonic and when he becomes a puppet himself he loses control of his own puppets thus allowing them to attack Pidia.
2. Pidia is STILL the apprentice Sel speaks about BUT it is actually Pidia that turns Sel into a puppet. Being the lesser puppeteer, he is unaware that by doing so, he weakens the control over the puppets that are under his masters control.
The problem with the whole “Sel is Pidia’s puppet the whole time” theory for me is that no where in the game does it state or show that puppets can literally impersonate a person. They are blue phantoms, essentially the SOULS seem to be bound and the bodies immobile. So the act of turning a puppeteer into a puppet seems the most likely to illicit the reaction of the once immobilized physical bodies actually being able to act with their own accord once more.
We actually do see a puppet masquerading as a person in Caelid during the Radahn Festival. Finger Maiden Theolina, a puppet of Seluvis' stands with the other champions in the gathering area before the battle begins and she doesn't speak. I believe she doesn't speak because if she did, we'd here Seluvis/Pidias voice.
Another problem i have with sel being pidias puppet is the fact that we have pretty extensive lore on seluvis life as a tarnished of the roundtable and on his motivations and (lack of) character. There is a whole story about him being part of a love triangle with gideon and delores and how his jealousy led him to turn delores into a puppet just to spite the both of them after being spurned by her. Then when we meet him he sends us on a quest to kidnap gideons adoptive daughter meaning he still holds a grudge and taking one woman in gideons life away from him still isnt enough for seluvis, he need the other too. Seluvis is obsessed with Gideon, he is spiteful, he is more than happy to hurt bystanders in his personal quest for revenge, in fact he seems to prefer doing so, given he never targets gideon directly. And we know he has been like this since a time where the roundtable housed more than a handful of tarnished.
If pidia has really made seluvis his puppet sometime after he left the roundtable , this implies he has been extremely committed to impersonating him to the point where he continues acting on seluvis's grudge against a man that should mean nothing to pidia himself and frankly i dont know why pidia would bother to go to such lengths. If he wants to ingratiate himself with ranni for some reason, indulging in seluvi's personal grudges has the risk of jeopardizing her plans by attracting gideon's attention. If he wants to get closer to ranni to turn her into a puppet, why not impersonate someone she actually trusts instead of someone everyone clearly hates the guts of and is only tolerated?
@@square-table-gaming Good point. The fact that we see a direct puppet employed by him that don't speak and adding that Seluvis is a puppet, they both share the same voice actor so that means puppets can be talk by ventriloquism but since he has a old man's voice can't speak for 'Theolina.'
Honestly, I just despise Selvius/Pidia. Their reasoning is fair, since Pidia is an albinauric, he’s been discriminated against his whole life, but… being a “doll botherer”, imprisoning people in dolls for his own twisted enjoyment… it’s just so gross. It definitely adds a layer of visceral depravity to the game and its many stories, for sure.
This was excellent. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! We appreciate it
Is it possible selivus taught radagon sorceries? He says he hasn't had a pupil in a very long time.
Holy crap. Meant to edit my earlier comment and deleted it by mistake. Let me try this again…
I know I’m very late to this party, but selivus is close to the Latin word for slave. It’s not direct, but it’s close enough to Seluvis to be kinda interesting.
Additionally, a quick (and possibly not very accurate at all) search for Pidia shows it could be related to the Sanskrit word Pidita, which can mean tormented or oppressed.
Both of these could also be a big case of confirmation bias on my part, but I still found it pretty cool.
The “seluvis is pidia” theory doesn’t make sense to me. If seluvis is a puppet being controlled by pidia, why would that puppet’s “death” cause the other puppets to turn on the man who was actually pulling the strings?
It doesn't, we believe Ranni set the puppets on Pidia after realizing Seluvis was a puppet. It's his punishment for trying to turn her into a doll.
@@square-table-gamingso then puppets don’t listen to their master? Why would pidia for some reason create puppets around himself, then give control to a person he plans to betray?
I don’t have anything to add but I love this lore shit.
Based on your theory isn't it possible that who Pidia is referring to when he says, 'I loved you with all I had', was Ranni not the puppets?
She was originally a member of the royal family, would have spent time in the manor and likely would have been known to Pidia. It would be motive for turning her into a puppet and it supports his comments of not liking puppets when you first meet him. The idea that he's been watching Ranni since infancy is also extra creepy in a way that I always got from Pidia.
Thanks for a new video to sleep to! 😊
I didn't get scared this time lol
Selivus says "to think, this was once a demigods very fate, my oh my!" So which demigod was turned puppet prior to this event? Or am I reading that statement wrong.
The amber starlight was a demigods fate as the carians believe fate is written in the stars.
200+ hours in and i had never even questioned pidia further. Elden rimg seems to always have some new interesting lore ive over looked
Finally this makes sense!!!!
Ranni could’ve forced him to drink potion and puppets turned on pidy cuz of it . But now I dunno
I don’t think he was a puppet all along, it could be that Ranni turned Seluvis into a puppet as a form of ironic punishment.
This new trend of thinking that Seluvis was *already* a puppet and/or controlled by Pidia isn't actually supported by anything that is actually in the game, at all (and ironically this video does a wonderful job of demonstrating that fact, making it quite troubling that you would present it as confirmed, to the point of literally calling it a fact). And I find it odd that so many people have latched onto it without even bothering to consider 1. how it seemingly contradicts with what else is in the game, and 2. the existence of any other, more logical explanations that do not seemingly contradict what else is in the game.
The reason I say it doesn't work is simply because the game heavily implies that puppets can't speak. And Seluvis does. So that's a contradiction. In addition to that, the notion that they could have fooled Ranni and that Ranni didn't know about Pidia is not only laughably silly, but it also contradicts with the fact that Pidia dies in the end.
So. I present to you an alternate explanation that actually makes sense with what is in the game, doesn't seemingly contradict anything else in the game, is far more logically sound and straightforward, and requires fewer logical leaps (Occam's razor): Ranni turned Seluvis into a puppet and then used the other puppets to kill Pidia.
People aren't turned into puppets by having their actual physical bodies turned into puppets. Also, nowhere is it said that puppets cannot speak. If anything, Seluvis and Pidia having the same voice actor heavily implies that we are hearing a modified version of Pidias voice through Seluvis. I don't see how any of the points presented here contradict the idea that Seluvis was Pidias puppet.
Also, the idea that Ranni has the ability to turn Seluvis into a puppet actually does contradict established ideas that Ranni needed Seluvis due to his ability create and control puppets.
For clarification, if Ranni needed Seluvis to control the puppets, how could she have made the puppets turn against Pidia?
Imma be honest, I laughed when pidia got got 😔
My theory is that it didnt work on Ranni bc Ranni herself is a puppet of Miquella and the age of the moon and stars is only way to make eclipse, Miquella have a plan B.
I wonder why Pidia hates Gideon so much. He took Dolores from his side many years before the albinauric massacre, so it can't be the reason why he want every Gideon's beloved ones.
Kept him alive for one reason…Dung Eater Puppet.
You can get it even if he dies
I believe selluvus was Ranni's puppet for testing the tarnished
I mean..... Ranni's old master was The Gloam-eyed Queen
Ranni's teacher was almost definitely not the gloam eyed queen as they wielded very different powers. From a timeline perspective it wouldn't work either as Marika defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen well before Ranni was born.
and some people still think that Seluvis isn't Pidia's puppet when there proof that he is a puppet
STG single-handedly keeping the community alive until DLC! 🎉
I have never seen pida before and I’ve been invested in elden ring since day one
Plus in the chamber that we call Seluvis's, it says: "Seluvis puppet, do not touch", which kinda implies this too IMHO
Grammatically it says Seluvis' which implies his ownership. I would I'd love to use this for my theory but I'm also a grammar dude
is there any details missed out from the fact that rannis body itself is a puppet as her true one is burnt to a crisp at the top of the tower? Maybe the potion cant work on her as she already is a puppet or something along those lines
It's very likely that Seluvis helped get Ranni her doll body so it'd be an odd detail for him to overlook
But what if someone, saaaay a wolf man, forced the potion down his throat?
Ranni, in retaliation and leaving for her journey, made Seluvis into HER puppet. That’s why he’s “dead” in the puppet position.
Pidia, as others pointed out, is on the balcony above the 2nd grace in Caria Manor. He saw us enter. The very next enemies are Cuckoo Puppets, he sent them against us, and that is why he apologizes upon our first meeting.
Seluvis and Pidia are not puppets, just one was turned into a puppet as revenge by Ranni.
The assertion that Ranni made him a puppet is pure speculation with nothing concrete to back it up. The theory of Seluvis always being a puppet has far too much evidence to be coincidence.
Sad how we all dogpilled Mohg for the allegations, but Seluvis was doing all this the whole time
Greetings from the Carrot-Man 👋🥕
My liege!
So, I just spent a few hours and checked your theory on what triggers the continuation of the Seluvis quest where he offers to sell you a second puppet, and it's something more than just visiting Pidia. I've done the quest at least a dozen times, tried all kinds of things to get him to sell you your next puppets, and no single thing I've tried works. I just keep playing and come back to him naturally later and he offers it.
I enjoy your content though.🙂 Keep up the good work.
draught is pronounced draft, like draft beer.
this is so interesting!
i may have missed this, if the video hasn't already addressed it, but when you kill Pidia, will Selivus then also slump over like he does in the end of the quest lines? I'm sure that this would be definitive proof that they're connected to being one and the same!
You cannot kill Pidia without breaking the game. Unfortunately it seems no line of code was made to connect them in that way because it's supposed to be impossible.
i see, how odd.. but i love the interesting connections we find everywhere else, thanks for all the interesting research!
9:08 Giggity?
Good stuff
Damn the hate I felt when i saw nefeli near he’s secret bed …
What happens if you just kill Pidia the first time you see him? I'm not sure if that's possible, but if it is, killing him and nothing happening to Seluvis would disprove this theory
It's not possible as any and all ways of dealing damage can't be done while in his room. In order to kill him you'd need to break the game using mods, so there was clearly intent to make it impossible to kill Pidia so as not to interrupt the quest.
Thank you! It's been a while I don't play the game, so I didn't remember he was in a safe room. So I stand corrected, the theory in the video makes 100% sense!
Does that include drinking the physick with an explosive tear?
@@basedchicken779 haven't tried! But it definitely falls outside of intended use from the developers.
These puppet guys are legit the most disturbing part of this entire game
Dolls hen tie ami right
God, the implications. I never did his questline cuz of how repulsive it was. So I didnt realize he was interested in the puppets in kind of a perverted sex way until I watched this.
I like your video and I agreed with the theory, but I i wanna point something out. You said that pose is only use with Puppets then is Iji a puppet ? Because when he dies he gets the same pose. Just a thought
It's a good observation but I'd argue that Iji's pose is slightly different. Also he's covered in Black flame and implied to have been killed by the black knife assassins.
@@square-table-gamingboth are on their knees arms at side head tilted back.
Not to mention we know that human selivus made the first person-puppet we know of (aside from nox ladies), which he gave to pidia. He made this puppet before joining the carian family, so he couldn’t have been working for pidia.
What about iji he is in the puppet position
I don't believe Seluvis was a puppet, it seemed to me that Seluvis was what he seemed and pidia was the caretaker of his puppets. His death position is just an irony, a final humiliation from Ranni to say that Seluvis was never more than her puppet.
To me, the whole pidia being the puppet master is waaay to convoluted. its too many layers for no reason and for me at least its a more satisfying story at face value than with the extra pidia bit.
In fact, the whole Ranni questline is the most intersting in the game, with good characters, but it suffers so much with unnecessary obscurity and complications for no good reason that it seems sometimes that all these convolutions serve to give the impression that there's more to be said by these games than there is in fact. Why, for example, make you go back to the first vendor to learn the gesture that turns you able to speak to Blaidd and engage properly with this group of NPCs? Complexity is not always a sign of good storytelling..
I gave the potion to the dung eater, not to nefteli the mission continues I want to know who killed Pideia?
Blaidd.
Ranni turns Pidia's puppets against him and deactivates Selivus
If you attack and try to kill Seluvis does he really die? No. You hit like a ghost and he vanishes. This means two things: he's a projection, or he is formless just like Ranni. They took control of a doll/puppet to live longer so technically they can't die by normal means. That's why when he dies his "doll" is left behind, and after that his puppets just go murder Pidia doesn't mean Pidia was the master mind he says I am charged with maintaining these ghastly dolls." that doesn't sound like Master mind he is just a helper for Seluvis nothing more
Possible, but it ignores Pidia lieing about his proclivity for the dolls as well. The idea here is that Pidia wouldn't want anyone to know he's a mastermind, it's an act.
@@square-table-gaming There's no way I'm hell Pidia an Albinauric a dude (puppet) or whatever is capable of all that.
Seluvis was always a traitor but had his uses for Ranni when he didn't any more she just took him out and then his puppets went on a rampage to kill Pidia
@@Ang3lD0wn why is it impossible? We know albinaurics are talented with magic and the female variations are very strong. Not to mention, they weren't always legless, their legs fade over time, so Pidia hasn't always been so pathetic looking.
@@square-table-gaming Maybe or maybe not doesn't matter great video as a always 👍
Or it could be that he was turned into a puppet as punishment.
Likely not, as puppets are not made from a person's original body. The puppets of nepheli and Sellen in Seluvis' quarters are evidence of this.
@@square-table-gaming fair point yeah.
What about seluvis’ bell bearing? Would it be stretch to assume a puppet can have one?
not at all. Seluvis could sell us items, of course he would have a bell bearing, puppet or not.
hope DLC let us gave potion to ranni xD
I mean...
Shes already a doll, you cant turn a doll into a doll now can you?
Easy way to find out, just kill the presumed puppet master, see if Seluvis dies
You actually can't! They made pidias location a non-combat area, presumably to prevent this.
3:50 "now I shall hand over the potion in question" is it just me or is that a really odd way of speaking. Sounds like the words of someone who lacks full agency over their own body. Much like a puppet. Or someone speaking through one