Worse than ever 😞 Now it won't run at all 🤬 V-MAX Misery Continues.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- The gods really don't want this bike to be fixed! At least it cranks properly now 😁 The fourth, and unfortunately not the last part in this series of videos. Trying with all I have to fix this f....ing V-MAX.
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/ superbikesurgerytv - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
This series has turned into a great community service - makes us all feel alot better about our own current bike projects 😎.
Jim you always go into such detail ,starter motor and motor windings ,brings back memories of school physics lessons and how motors are built.
Excellent stuff .
Keep it up .
This starter motor is a very old type. They were using this type on cars back in the 50's. I did my training as a forklift truck engineer back in the late 70's. Part of your training was working in the service exchange department, we're you refurbished starter & alternators. This is just a smaller version. We never had oscilloscopes back in the day, just a clamp Amp meter and an AVO and a thing called a shunt, it was a calibrate metal strip you put inline of the battery cable and contact the AVO to, for the younger viewers an AVO, it was an analogue test meter, [Amps volts ohms] When I was a field engineer, we would repair starters and alternators in the back of my van, in all weather's. It was basic repair work, now days you throw it away, not good.
Blimey Jim this is more rivetting than Star Wars was in 77 and far better than my video on black box voltage drops and wobbly teeth that no body watched. My guess from the beginning was an aging electrical system causing a voltage drop at the black box, normally this cuts out all sparks at the plugs and the rev counter needle starts to bounce around on electrical tachos.
Black boxes on late 80's throu to late 90's bikes needed about 9.7 volts, (check the manual for the vmax) ageing starter/ign/charging and lighting circuits rob volts,, old positive leads, solenoids and terminals let alone the starter motor itself. Once an old 12v system loses a couple of volts it's game over at the plugs and good black boxes get swapped out unnecessarily because nobody checks the power that's supposed to be going in. Intermittent cutting out and misfiring is the black box ' cutting out ' due to a lack of power ( volts ) going into the black box/CDI unit).
Black boxes on modern bikes now only need 4or5 volts to power up, this now helps to compensate for age related electrical system deterioration and electrical component wear and tear.
That eBay black box was horrendous, total bummer, when you get the next one check for wobbly teeth ( the blade terminals ) with a small screwdriver and make sure you've got the sufficient voltage going in.
Your carb rebuild was really impressive and what you found was shocking but when it didn't make any difference my jaw hit the floor...jeez talk about no mercy.
Hopefully those block connectors that go to the black box are ok as you know they're notorious for filling with crud.
I think the dealer changed that black box because they didn't check the starter circuit which was probably starving the black box in the first place, they then put an incorrect /faulty box back in.
Getting a good black box is essential, I've often bought 2 or 3 second hand ones before I got a good one and id always highly recommend everyone carry a known good spare one at all times on the bike or at the very least keep one at home.
A quick note, black boxes can wreck havoc with your ign coils too and vice versa, check for overheating coils by touching them with your fingers and remove from heat source if you have to as most are always being cooked as they're sandwiched between cyl head and fuel tank. Each coil should be the same temp.
That starter motor was a mother to get out no wonder no body had been near it in 40years...and on that note it's always my first port of call when I smell a rat, always find the key player that nobody can be bothered to remove or knows how to replace, seems to me that every old/older bike problem stems from a component that's difficult to access and thus avoided until the bike becomes unusable.Old type voltage reg/rec that are JIS screwed to the underneath of battery boxes that you can't get to are a typical example.....headlight bulb blows... battery overcharging...reg/rec fault...you go to replace it and then find out how difficult it is to remove ...so the real problem is not the fault but the difficulty in replacing the component...not every body has the skills or facilities to rectify all of their bike's problems which is why they end up in your very capable hands, any way, I'm waffling now, bye
Buying a 40 year old ECU is suicide. Get a Dynatec3000 and be done with it. As for the bad starting… earth cable on the starter motor is corroded. Most common on the Vmax.
“Somewhere there’s a human that designed this” 😂
Fascinating stuff when watching from the comfort of my settee 😉🔧👍🏻
I'm probably the least mechanically minded man in the world and haven't got a clue what you're talking about but love your vids👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
Great real world content of working on older bikes Jim 👍🏻👍🏻
Most of the new automotive starters are now fitted with ferrite magnets to add cheapness the motors are very high speed and low torque with an plastic epicyclic reduction on the output end they have to be cheap as they are now a service item because most modern cars have start stop function so when your starter has covered enough start stop cycles it will be replaced at service time
Shit ain't it just like dual mass flywheels and twin clutch setups
Waiting for parts is soul destroying, especially so when your mrs knows you have time for all the chores you've been putting off
I think Jim is the South Main Auto of motorcycles. True expert-level approach to every problem just like Eric O.
100%
This series of videos makes me feel better about my electrically troublesome RC8! It’s good to know that even Ninja mechanics have the same thoughts about motorcycle designers and wanting to slap them when it comes to component removal 😂. Please keep doing what you’re doing,
I learn a lot and and find your channel very entertaining 👍
What’s wrong with your RC8?
Gutted for you, love the tenacity and persistence though. Good luck!
I've learnt something from your video. Not too bye old v max 😅 am I making sense. 😂 keep the videos coming brilliant suf Jim.
I feel your frustration, a mate of a mate dropped me off a 78 UK model XS1100 that had sat in a damp shed for 20yrs, he wanted it restoring to original or as close as I could.
It was rough as toast, did turn over, I cleaned the carbs, the TCI was missing, 2 available in EU for crazy money with wrong part numbers, I ended up buying a correct used one from the USA for £50 plus £75 shipping, no idea if it was any good, it arrived in 10 days and looked good, then I found one of the pulsar coils was dead, sourced a used set for £75 from a ebay guy who was breaking an engine, the bike fired up a runs great first prod of the starter button, still loads to do but the owner is happy, I was lucky I guess.
Thanks for this vid. I am a backyard mechanic, It is good to see the pros suffer the same things my unskilled self has to go through. Also the no wrench turners that think " It was just a ECU , it should not take weeks to fix and 4 hours labour, its a 5 minute job". teaches them realiries of a mechanic life.
Incredible dedication to proper diagnosis Jim, keep up the awesome work and thanks for all of your help on the Discord. totally worth the couple bucks!
That board would have come right out if you had removed the screw in the centre of it lol
EDIT just watched the end of the vid LOL 😁
This has been a very enjoyable series. However, something doesn't ring true.
The bike was apparently taken to a Yamaha main dealer who diagnosed a faulty CDI. The customer was then charged and took the bike away (not working) with a cheap pattern CDI installed.
Since when has a main dealer installed parts that are not supplied by the manufacturer? If Yamaha UK didn't have a replacement CDI, a search would have been conducted via Yamaha Europe, then finally Yamaha Japan. If still no part was available, then advice would have been sought from Yamaha Japan. I doubt they would have advocated fitting a cheap replacement, and sending the customer away with a large bill and a non operational motorcycle.
Surely the customer would have complained to Yamaha UK about the poor service provided?
Personally, I would contact the Yamaha dealer to see if they remember the motorcycle and customer. They may even still have the original CDI (if indeed the tale is true).
Looking forward to part 5...
Keep up the good work Jim.
Interested in the next process of programming up an aftermarket ECU, Hopefully the information in the manual will be enough to get it running.
Good work with the Starter Motor.
And as for that ECU - couldn't have been any worse a condition if it tried. Someone well and truly sold you a dud. Luky eBay will refund money if parts are faulty & don't work. Still doesn't hepl you get the bike running.
Can you go aftermarket ECU and get into programming it.
I'd be throwing things........
Jim, you’ve the patience of a saint and the perseverance to match!
Try to find some old tv technician, those ecu are fairly easy circuits.
That water corrosion can be cleaned and if the micro controler in the pcb is still in good shape it can be repaired.
Sorry my bad english, im from Portugal and i love your work.
uncle fester went to Chester i had a vfr 800 that would not start it was the same sort of thing a crusty connector in the injector loom plug i got it going by shoving some silver foil in the connector it ran like a top so i changed the injector loom it is still running today
DYNA TECH in the states. I got one for mine , fully programmable upto 8 maps with all the wiring outputs for launch control and a bunch of other stuff £300 in 2019.
Brilliant stuff
Jim, get an ignitech ecu from Sean Morley at Morley’s Muscle in USA. They’re ready programmed for the Vmax !!
I recon I saw the heart monitor on your watch flat line for a second or 2 Jim......🤔
New T-shirt slogan "Are you F***king kidding me"🤣
What are the chances that the new ECU was the one taken off the bike recently.
Brilliant, what a gift these videos are. Got my honda 900 boldor starter motor in bits and it looks just like the one on the vmax.
Love to hear how to test it. I'm damned if I know how it works.
Armature windings are all commoned, some clever magic makes it work.
Cracking video,can't wait for the video next 👌
Jim , can you do a quick video on how you got started , places worked etc?
Just for infomation, I think you will find that motor is series wound i.e. the field winding is connected in series with the armature. Series wound motors produce a high starting torque and therfore ideal for use as starter motors.
Yeah I was shouting series-wound dc motor at the screen too! As you say- extremely high starting torque but they will take whatever current they need and drag your battery down to zero if they need to……
Yes series wound motors will draw high currents need to creare the high starting torque. In addition it's not recommended to run a series wound motor off-load because they can easily overspeed and damage the commutator!
Just a thought on the Vmax Just check, pick ups. The timing of the pick ups are out IF the crank pick up is lose or the hall affect pick up is lose / bent / broken you would get a signal out of phase
great job lad looks like cdi bin sitting in river don not good at all keep at it lad ul getthere next video please
Akira Araki is the mad man to blame for the vmax design
That pcb has been under water...an Earth strap would help perhaps not this time.
Good luck Jim , hope you get a valid replacement.
There is a screw in middle of ECU board still while you were trying to pry it out.
That was a minger of an ecu hope you get it sorted asap, loving the vids, I’m currently suffering with a weak starter motor on my 2008 R1 and debating pulling it out and draining the carbon dust out of it but i think you’ve convinced me that while I’m in the bowels of the fkking thing I’ll just replace it
Been said elsewhere, surely the original ECU removed by bike dealer is still in existence and available?
As its possible the original fault was carbs you think, its possible the original ECU is fine.
Could it be obtained, fitted and tried?
Cheers for great educational content.
Stuart
the ecu is toast and a good replacement is silly expensive, this is a carburettor engine so hardly an ecu just an ignition system, if it were mine I would be looking to adapt a pair of ignition systems from a similar indervidual cylinder capacity twin
Love the vids 👍
Love the show.
Your best bet is a programmable CDI / TCI from Ignitech.
Don't bother with that old eBay junk.
if your good with an iron its fixable and caps etc will be pennies, all thru hole, no surface mount rubbish
@@johnr4459 You did see the corrosion? That board is FUBAR.
It might be worth having a look ( clean/remove) at the engine earth terminal and mounting bolt at the crankcases anyway and inspect the engine earth lead from the engine to the battery despite what the graph says (apologies if you've already done this ) normally difficult to get to and neglected and cruddy,
if a bike's 40years old, generally id do a full lead and terminal overhaul, regardless what the multimeter says and if funds allowi bung a new solonoid on it and renew these
Engine to battery earth lead
Battery to starter solenoid lead
Starter solenoid to starter motor lead
Battery to frame earth lead.
( I call these the 4 main arteries to the heart )
I was wondering whether a starter motor continually turning over slowly causes excess brush dust to build up and although your new motor spins up nice there might still be a lingering problem with residue resistance left in the starter circuit leads and terminals not just because theyre old but because the engine earth lead and terminal at the engine end could do with a refresh as you know without it neither the pick up coils, alternator of starter motor will function as well as they should do
What brand is your smart watch. Love the videos especially all your self criticism on camera lol.
Waiting on this one, nice one.
Shit Jim, not a lot of luck with the V-Max. Been seeing a lot of video’s including the V-Max, you”ll fix it like always 💪🏻🛠 good luck and appreciate the depth of you’re video’s
I have ordered Ignition (CDI) for Yamaha Virago from China and upon arrival strange clicking sound appeared ,after opening of casing power Darlington transistor fall out ,so you are not the only one get fooled .
Ditch stock ecu & fit full MSD ignition system.
the relative compression check youve done would show a tight big end or such like. i wouldnt have thought you could determine a short in the starter with it
Thanks for the comment. It wasn't a relitive compression test! Although you could easily use that data to identify a low compression cylinder. Voltage drop and current draw can 100% give you an indication of resistance in a circuit. It's just physics!
Stezstix fix likes a printed circuit board to take a look at
Arrgh! What a hassle. Until seeing the very last seconds of the video, my first thought was "Gee, it's too bad you couldn't do a collaboration with one of the TH-cam electronics fixing dudes like BigClive, or someone". But I think even he would have gasped at the nasty shown inside that ECU, yikes lol
I had the same starter motor issue on a KZ1000 the other day rebuilt motor went to start and it wouldn't fire no spark slow cranking ,,, starter motor issues ( high current draw low volts )
I feel for you mate. If that wristwatch of yours monitors stress I'll bet its off the scale
From my experience it's sometimes better to just replace parts. I had a problem with my VTR years back. I replaced the ignition pick up and ECU. I don't have the skills to test components like you can but if you balance labour costs chasing a faulty part against just replacing it can work out cheaper down the replacement route.
Couldn't disagree more! Changing parts in a vain hope that you may accidentally fix something is definitely a recipe for spending money unnecessarily. You may get lucky occasionally, but it's never a good idea.
I had vtr and the same problem you mentioned,
The guy replaced the the coils thinking it was electrical and it wasn’t it was the fuel tap not letting enough fuel through so it would run on 2 then 1,
One fuel tap rebuild kit later the bike never missed a beat,
Ps Love watch your work and don’t say sorry for waffling as we all do it,
@@SuperbikeSurgeryTV but you need to remember that without the skills set you have and the diagnostic equipment you have most of us mortals struggle somewhat which is why we watch your videos in the first place. I've always managed to solve problems that crop up but yes sometimes it takes a really long time! Now , stop messaging and get on with fixing max😉🤣
So what happened to the original cdi unit?
previous mechanic swapped it out for the cheap aftermarket one as part of their original attempt to fix it
@@Kevster270 I know, but does the old one physically exist or did that shop lob it? Or even, can the red unit be reprogrammed?
@@mickleblade I think Jim mentioned the old ecu was sent off to be fixed and re-cased. Maybe a case for warranty on the work.
Sounds like the fluffle combobulator and pick ups need a good service. 🍻👍
i purchased my first ever new bike in 2016 a gsx-s 1000 while on a trip to Spain the thing refused to turn over every now an then clicking like a flat battery i went through everything when i got it home it wasn't the battery or not charging starter solenoid it was the starter motor put a second hand one on an have had years of trouble free riding new bikes ehh
i bet that Ebay seller lived near salt water!
Just had a look online Moto matrix do ECU repairs and the vmax is on the list of potentially repairable ones👍
When its cranking it sounds like it's got a low compression
"Don't want this video to turn into a dc electric video" ☹
Ha mate starter is polling
Vmax are a pain in the arse to work on I feel your pain
I know it's not really related but do let us know how you get on with ebay returns.
This is craaaaazy
Nothing worse than getting DOA parts.
Time to buy a microscope and a hot air station and get deep into component-level repair of microelectronics!
Is the 100amp draw for the starter typical on most bigger capacity machines? Suffering starting issues on an R1 and itll be in my list to check next...
Mine visually looks perfect internally, spotless intact... But the machine acts like when the starter runs it's robbing too much current from the bike, and makes starting difficult. I priced a new item, from Yamaha £778. Ouch.
That cooling system needs to be thoroughly cleaned. Also rust on the starter terminals would cause voltage drop, no?
The camera really did make it look rust. In reality, the coolant was bright pink and completely clean.
@toolzandnewideas Not sure what else to tell you! The coolant was clean, and as far as it's possible to tell, there's no rust in the system. It's just the way the camera interprets the pink colour. This isn't my first Rodeo! 😂
@@SuperbikeSurgeryTV Appearences can be deceiving!
@@SuperbikeSurgeryTV The actual cooling system looks very rusty like it has been run with just water at some point in it's life tbf to the original commenter. Also the circuit board of the ECU had another screw in it, right in the middle. I have a feeling that any ECU will just go bad if it has already had a replacement and it didn't fix it, another electrical issue is possibly causing the problems. I hope you get to the bottom of it whatever is going on.
There's no obvious fault with the cooling system, the customer is paying and there is a main fault. If it was a full restoration you would go through every system, but it's not !
FWIW, you put the cover back on the ECU backwards. You know what I am saying?
Screw in centre of board !!!!,
Hard starting . Over advanced?
So the ecu came out of a pond.
Glad it's not just me that has totally shitty luck with bikes. Think this actually all adds to the suspense and makes the videos better lol I have a GSX 1400 that chucks out smoke when off throttle when revving and hot but doesn't do it while riding or cold and not under throttle. I have changed all the valve stem seals myself and checked all the sensors and everything looks fine. It has 8k mls and in showroom condition but for the life of me cannot figure it out so feel your pain. It smells rich but smoke is whitish/blue done it since I bought it last year so gutted. Can't wait for the next Video 🙂
Those are lovely bikes, hope you get it sorted, was going to buy one but went for a 95 V Max instead.
I don't know if it helps, but I had problems with my 1999 v.max.
It was the water temperature sensor. Run lovely when cold, as soon as it got hot, Run like a pig until over 1/4 throttle
Crikey, thank's for that, my 95 is the same, have changed the carb rubbers as i thought it was drawing air (they were perished anyway), on a hot day sitting at lights it's a nightmare, pretty much wont idle, not ridden it since last August.
"Can't help myself" yay 🤤😁😁😁😁😁
I didn't see permanent magnets in starter motors until about 1998 and they were cheap motors the motor you have infrastructure of you is no different to the motor on a heavy truck or dozer a quality item that can be rebuilt more than once. You only need to look inside a modern vehicle starter to see how poor they are today
Steve taylor from taylor made wheels has a lot of contacts with v max people , may be worth a call.
24:20, if you don't laugh, you'll cry!
pro tip NEVER buy anything electrical off fleabay....
Jim .can I call you Yoda?.
got a copper hide looks just the same jim
ignition unit TID14-43 1FK-10. I have one like this I can send it to you
did make me laugh bloody motorbike nice watch what is it?
Fuckin hell, did that all make sense or did we end up down a massive rabbit hole? Regardless, great video 👍
What a bloody nightmare. Yamaha had to put an ECU on a carby bike didnt they
Far less experianced than you. But appears similar to a proplem I had with with my 03 955i Tiger , which was down to a starter current draw similar to that and as it pulled the battery voltage down to below 11.5v it caused all sorts of ECU problems and sometimes non starting even with a new battery. But once running it settled down unlike this V Max, It was the advice of some very nice people on a Triumph forum and someone letting me have the use of a known good starter solved it for me.
Thanks for the comment 👍 You need to go back and watch the previous episodes. Starting has never been the problem. (Slow cranking is a separate issue) The bike has incorrect ignition timing on the rear cylinders.
Well wasn't that a bugger.
BB Reman get it repaired
Try "Do you follow me?"😂
Get Mat from Dirty dong garage to help, he is the motorcycle god apparently. He knows all 😂
Yeah, arm chair mechanic 🤣
He shits all over delboy but I bet the pair of them in the garage together. Delboy could do more of the general maintenance on a bike better than he can.
Del bollocks in the house can feel of warm column of pissy air.
@@cjsingh4070 Del is alright. Major issue is changing coolant hot. That's stupid. General maintenance and care of a bike he can do that no issues. His fabricating etc... well at least he has a go.
That whiteboard warrior Matt makes a mess of anything he tries to do. Gets clicks from using delboys images then just has a go at the same guy all the time. Del's helped out thousands of folks with his vids yet that dirty donkey Matt has done nothing.
Theres a screw in the middle of the icu board
You didn't watch until the end!
Friday = waffle time❤️
Like first then watch the episode.
Definitely!
Thing is about Matt, he actually has a very good grasp of automotive engineering, Del is self taught and average, our friend here on the channel is highly experienced, well trained, and has excellent diagnostic skills.
He has a wee bit of trouble with verbalising what he wants to get across to us all… but if he ran a guy like an interviewer asking relevant questions and keeping a lid on the waffle I reckon it would be an excellent show!
Same 😂
😎👍😎
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Ignitech cz.
Thanks
Too many adverts.