Is Hell Fair? Cliffe Knechtle's Debate on God's Justice

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 238

  • @RohitJohns
    @RohitJohns วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Jesus save me

  • @sgu2693
    @sgu2693 4 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Have mercy on me, Jesus.

  • @sinclairj7492
    @sinclairj7492 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    As Frank Turek would say: The doors of hell are locked from the inside. The people in hell don’t want to be in God’s presence.

    • @idriveastationwagon1534
      @idriveastationwagon1534 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Wait seriously?

    • @sinclairj7492
      @sinclairj7492 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @ Yup, that’s what he says. They reject God and don’t want to follow his teachings.

  • @theodorefranklin2059
    @theodorefranklin2059 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    That young man had excellent questions as to love.For example, a loving father after perishing his son for something he was told not to do wouldn't take his hand and hold over a fire on the stove.Becaues where would the love be found in that? Cliff makes our loving heavenly Father out to be a vindictive God. Why would he go unimaginable pain of his only 3:20 begotten Son being abused and murdered and not do anything about it. Because of his love for humans. Keep in mind that Cliff is self-taught about spiritual things.

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@theodorefranklin2059 But Jesus's pain is not for eternity it's only for some days but here on earth people are also suffering for years like many people are getting raped and torture for years and after that it's not ending for them

  • @IBenZik
    @IBenZik 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    It's not about fair, it is about justice.

    • @Toupan
      @Toupan 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Justice doesn't have to be fair?

    • @IBenZik
      @IBenZik 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Toupan Fair to whom?

    • @Toupan
      @Toupan 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      @@IBenZik in anyway you choose to interpret it. Justice is fair, or it isn't justice.

    • @IBenZik
      @IBenZik 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Toupan With God, yes, with man, I don't think so.

    • @Toupan
      @Toupan 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@IBenZik well if we aren't at least trying to be fair, we're doing it wrong

  • @bearpause21
    @bearpause21 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    "Eye for Eye, Tooth for Tooth" is Hammurabi's Code, NOT God's law. Hammurabi was a Bbylonian king who devised his own code to live by and justice system. So many get this confused, and I am honestly surprised that Cliff did not address this. However, Matthew 5:38 specifically addresses this. Jesus Christ stated, "But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. Go the Second Mile. You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

    • @joverstreet24
      @joverstreet24 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      God’s law was written on Hammurabi’s heart. He knew what he was talking about then.

  • @trommelbiel
    @trommelbiel 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +20

    I have heard dozens of hell explanations and none has impressed me. And none will probably impress me. The only person who xan explain eternity in hell is the creator of hell and the soul that will finally be judged eternally. As long as humans can't understand the soul we don't have the capacity to understand hell. But l believe it will make sense after we live this body because time would cease to exist and one enters a permanent state with ir without God.

    • @IthinkImOk-k7g
      @IthinkImOk-k7g 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      Sure… but I know this: hell is not a place I want to go to.
      Yes, it does seem extreme, so what’s up with that? It made me take a closer look at God’s master plan.
      Did I find an angry, authoritarian, accusing God who is eager to punish sinful people and send them into eternal hellfire? Not at all. In fact, I found the exact opposite.
      God knew that his gift of free will, as wonderful as it is, would allow us to choose to sin (rejecting God’s way and instead doing things our way) over being pure and righteous. “Our way” leans toward being petty, or lustful, or greedy, or power hungry, or hedonistic, or disrespectful, or jealous, or envious, or selfish, or dishonest, or hold grudges, or are overly prideful, etc..
      But here’s the problem: God can’t just ignore our sins; that is not fair or just. Every sin has a consequence attached to it. And there is no way for us to get rid of our sins: good deeds don’t cancel out bad ones. So, since there is no sin in Heaven, how could we ever be allowed in?
      God knew this and set it up so that EVERYONE could easily make it into Heaven. How? Simply by putting our faith and trust in him and his plan of salvation.
      This plan was agreed to by the Son of God (Jesus) who volunteered to temporarily leave his heavenly throne and powers behind and become just a man. Why?
      So that HE could absorb all the sins of the world and be punished in OUR place. He showed his love for all of us by suffering and dying on the cross to save us from the punishment we rightly deserve. He essentially bought our ticket to Heaven with his blood.
      He then holds that ticket out to us saying “I love u. I died to save u. Please trust me.”
      Does it take some humility to accept the fact that we cannot save ourselves? Sure. But why should it be a problem to rely on Almighty God’s grace? Shouldn’t we all feel humble, thankful, and indebted to him? Shouldn’t we feel very special that Jesus loves us that much that he was willing to suffer and die for us?
      This was God’s plan: to make it so easy for EVERYONE to get to Heaven and live with him. All he asks is for us to be humble and rely on HIM instead of being overly prideful and relying on OUR own RIGHTEOUSNESS. He wants our humility and trust.
      If we do that… Boom… We are saved!
      The ticket to Heaven is ours!
      Pretty cool. We can ALL get to Heaven NOT because of what WE DO but because of what JESUS DID. That is the good news of the gospel of salvation thru Christ.
      Hell shouldn’t even enter into the discussion. Why would anyone want to REJECT this gift of salvation?

    • @JerryUpchurch-f2o
      @JerryUpchurch-f2o 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Jesus does not send anyone to hell. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” Rom 6:23 . Did Jesus say that God so loved the world that he gave his only son so that those who believed in him would not go to hell? No, he said so that they would not perish (die). Is it possible that Jesus was wrong or that he was lying? And that people who do not believe will not perish but will go to hell and live forever in hell. The Bible says unbelievers will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. So there is a death of the body and a second death which is the death of the soul. Mat 10:28 "Fear not man who can kill your body and then can do no more to you, fear God who can kill both the body and soul in Gehenna (The Lake of Fire). Is man immortal and will live forever as most churches teach? That is the lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden. How do we know that man is not immortal? The bible tells us that God put an angel with a flaming sword at the entrance to the Garden of Eden so that Adam could not return and eat of the tree of life and live forever.

    • @trommelbiel
      @trommelbiel 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      we have heard all that. It is not new but thank you for your long essay. But nothing can explain eternity in the lake of fire. Sorry noone can explain it except the one who made it. Of course we should all appreciate the sacrifice on the cross. But to explain everything away with Free will is simply ludicrous. One thing l do know is there is a pathway to be saved from hell and it is not difficult.

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@JerryUpchurch-f2o
      Bingo!!😊👍
      I do however think anailation is possible not probable but possible.
      I don't know for certain what the minister's definition of hell is he's never said that I've heard and it has different definitions.
      I mean to me hell is likly a place called the grave , it's eternal punishment.
      Man was not made with an eternal soul. We don't even have a soul apart from the body.

    • @VainFriggus
      @VainFriggus 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Uh he already told us about it lol

  • @davidplummer2473
    @davidplummer2473 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    There is no repentance in Hell. Everyone there prefers it over Heaven and would not leave if offered Heaven. They hate God and his authority that much.
    If you tell God to go away and leave you alone, if he grants your wish, God being the source of all that is good, all good things go with him. It's like telling the sun to go away and thinking the sun's rays will stay.
    It does no good to tell the sun to go away and then complain that the inevitable cold that results is unfair.
    God is all or nothing. You get all of him or none of him. There is no door number 3 of mediocrity so craved by the ever-malcontent modern hedonist.

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      For the wages of sin is?

    • @penguin112yt4
      @penguin112yt4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I too would hate someone who has most of humanity torchured forever

    • @punani_slayer4209
      @punani_slayer4209 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@penguin112yt4you hate the wrong being

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@penguin112yt4 Assuming you mean God, since that's Who the discussion is about, He does have all of humanity tortured forever. The Bible doesn't say that hell is torture, it says that hell is torment. I'm sure that you got confused because both words start with "T" but torture and torment are not the same. People choose to go to hell of their own accord, God does not send them there. The wages of sin are *death* not eternal torture.

    • @penguin112yt4
      @penguin112yt4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@NovusIgnis so basically if you dont worship god and do as he says you will be tormented forever, also the bible clearly sais thet hell lasts forever, why wouldnt he just destroy the soul?

  • @unumintusDominus
    @unumintusDominus 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    As much as I admire Cliffe Knechtle, I think he needs to a better job of explaining what HELL is and what HELL IS NOT and what HEAVEN is and what heaven is NOT. So many people have a misguided notion that Hell is a place God sends people, with a desire to punish them. And, that God gets no greater joy than to see people suffer in Hell.
    Hell is a fallback plan God created for the devil and his angels when they rebelled against him (Matthew 25:41). While nothing comes as a surprise to God, God does not go out and deliberately create a place for created beings because 'he knows' they will oppose him. _God knew that Lucifer would rebel_ and Hell was created as the eventual destination for Lucifer and his cronies. It is their 'final destination' on that same day Christ creates a new heaven (cosmos) and a new Earth. In the meantime Christ IS 'the lamb' slain since the foundation of The Earth (Revelation 13:8) necessary because God knew mankind would sin in the garden.
    God as a loving father, the 'father of man' (Re; Luke 3:38) did not refuse to create mankind knowing men and women would sin anymore than a parent refuses to give birth to a child, knowing the child may go astray and cause devastation; _the parent STILL loves the child no matter what!_ The fact God knows what is going to happen does not preclude predestination. His knowledge of 'future' events is based upon our own Free Will which to us might seem like an endless array of choices but to him _is amateurish,_ God himself a probability mathematician _operating a million levels ABOVE us._
    Heaven is more the presence of God than it a place and not to be confused with pagan concepts of Valhalla and Elysian Fields of Pluto where people are rewarded for doing 'good' or doing 'evil'. Simply put; "Heaven is a relationship and NOT a destination" This relationship brings with it _Eternal life_ and it comes from WITHIN not WITHOUT just as Jesus preached about. The eternal life that comes from God means God is under no obligation to share eternal life with anyone refusing to do things his way. Essentially, SIN is not simply doing bad things _but the unjust action of the creature rebelling against the just authority of its creator._
    The Bible clearly states that our own conscience will either justify or condemn us as we stand before God in judgment, in whose presence we will be unable to lie; both to HIM as well as to OURSELVES (Romans 2:12 -26). God will judge people for what they DO know not for what they DO NOT know, just as I at my place of work I can tell what's in a person's HEART by what THEY DO more than what THEY SAY. There are several instances in The Bible where God spared children (young ones) from SIN. One is in 2 Samuel 12 :1 -25, another is in 1 Kings 14:12. In The Book of Jonah 4:11, God _spares The City of Nineveh_ because, although they were wicked they also _repented_ once they HEARD from God through Jonah.
    God IS FAIR! The problem in many human beings is they want to live their lives according to lyrics in the song by Frank Sinatra "I did it MY WAY" and do so all the way to the grave, then, demand a place in Heaven according to works done _their way_ and not _God's way;_ trying to force their way IN as it were. This very act reveals a human nature that is hypocritical, cowardly and selfish.
    People in Hades will not be sorry they rebelled against God; _they will be sorry they are in Hell AND THIS ONLY_ just like when people are sorry apprehended doing a crime. They are not sorry for doing the crime, _they are sorry they have been CAUGHT._
    Hell is containment systems where people will have 'the full of their ways' and not having God tells them what to do with the remainder of their existence for all Eternity. In Heaven the presence of God, those who desired to live for God on Earth, loving him and serving him will continually LIVE for God and SERVE God. For you see, the person who loves God, OBEDIENCE follows naturally (Ref; John 14:15) Rebellious spirits not wishing to love and obey God, must be placed somewhere so they can not cause harm to others as well as to themselves because of internecine behavior. It is most likely all spirits in Hell will be isolated from one another, each allowed to do what it wants apart from the influence of God.
    Just as our bodies must return to the Earth from which they came so our spirits must return to the maker of ALL spirits (Re; Ecclesiastes 12:7).

    • @Nola-2000
      @Nola-2000 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Amazing explanation, they regretted getting caught not because they didn't love God.

    • @tonyguillen3224
      @tonyguillen3224 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Greatest explanation so far🤝🙌

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Well i agree to this extent the minister ought to explain what he belives hell is .Naturally those who believe in the most common notion will assume that's what he's referring to and I would think he would have relized that. There are a lot of beliefs as to what hell is and of course that's highly debatable and he dosen't want to produce tangents and maybe that's what he's thinking I don't know. But yes that would help. 🙂

  • @jmkstandoff2144
    @jmkstandoff2144 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Nice debate

  • @hyper-lethal-sigma3
    @hyper-lethal-sigma3 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I was an alcoholic from 21 to 30 and I loved alcoholic could defend it and justify it yet secretly I know it was not doing the good things I claimed it was but was destroying my heart and soul taking me down roads I didn't want to go down

  • @ClergetMusic
    @ClergetMusic 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Question 1: what is hell?
    Question 2: how do you end up there?
    Many who believe hell is unjust do not know the correct answers to those questions.

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@ClergetMusic
      Sure , hell is the grave you end up there by not being resurrected. 😊
      PS I wouldn't say that's unfair though. I mean if God is the source of life and you don't wanna be there that's your business.

    • @convinceme6676
      @convinceme6676 วันที่ผ่านมา

      according to scripture its a lake of fire or an unending burning in fire ( I found 11 descriptions of hell in the bible with a 30 second search)
      You end up there not by your deeds but by following christ ( also biblically sourced)
      Using those parameters, not only is Hitler going to hell but the 6 million Jews he killed are going to hell also because they didn’t follow christ.
      What a disgusting system your loving god has created.

    • @MrGieschen
      @MrGieschen วันที่ผ่านมา

      Hell is the absence of God's love and the presence of God's wrath. You end up there by not loving God.

    • @convinceme6676
      @convinceme6676 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ the all loving god has wrath? punishment for the sake of vengeance is abhorrent. Punishment as rehabilitative is better but not great. Love is acceptance without punishment. I really am concerned that people can accept hell as a concept and still think they are good people. Its really twisted logic.

    • @MrGieschen
      @MrGieschen วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@convinceme6676 What or who defines good? Just because something seems illogical doesn't make it so, and the same in the flipside. If there is a supreme being over all, that being decides right and wrong. If there is no supreme or absolute being, how are good and evil determined? Absent that, the best I've seen is it's all relative and holds no water. There would be no absoluteness on right or wrong, just what is and what isn't, especially if one doesn't go outside the hard sciences.

  • @TomSanders-mi2bg
    @TomSanders-mi2bg 7 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    An all powerful , loving god would not send people to hell

  • @robertrettig7110
    @robertrettig7110 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Doesn’t the Bible say you should not make God in your own image? Doesn’t God say; “My ways are not your ways”? Isn’t Faith having not seen Jesus still believing in Him as was Thomas’s lesson? This young man reminds me of Thomas! Thomas spent 3 years with Jesus and still doubted until he felt Jesus’s wounds when He said “My Lord, my God! I believe that when we get to heaven after God removes our sin nature ( a blessed gift!), we’ll spend eternity learning God”s Way! Until then, just trust in the promise God’s in control and knows what’s needed!!!!

  • @Michael-i2d4d
    @Michael-i2d4d 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I would also add that God has complete control over when someone dies. I realize that this is hard to understand with free will being added to the mix, but please let's not try to completely understand God while on this earth. This is the whole idea of what faith is. God is in control and there are reasons why things happen that we just can't understand. A great example of this is what happened to Job in the Bible.

  • @davidmynhardt5705
    @davidmynhardt5705 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    It would seem that even christians has a vaque understanding of hell .
    Some even seem to rejoice in the idea of sinners going there - suffer , I told you so ? Justice vs revenge

  • @DuLceCariDadB
    @DuLceCariDadB 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Psalm 139:8-13 KJV. If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, And thy right hand shall hold me.

    • @johnhuggins1394
      @johnhuggins1394 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Gods presence will not be in hell
      Worse than the torture and pain of hell,is the utter loneliness and mental anguish that people will face because of rejecting the gift of eternal life offered by Christ

    • @dilubagh231
      @dilubagh231 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@johnhuggins1394so that's a contradiction then

  • @davidmynhardt5705
    @davidmynhardt5705 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Wages of sin is DEATH !
    people will not BURN inn hell for eternity
    Eternal punishment not punishing
    Being wrong about hell will cause millions to be lost

    • @aikonakamoto9030
      @aikonakamoto9030 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments," - Luke 16:23... You are still dead in hell, and you will not be resurrected to live on the new earth described in Revelation. But you have an eternal soul. That part of you will exist forever. And hell is torment. No one is going to like it.

    • @davidmynhardt5705
      @davidmynhardt5705 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Eternal soul ? God can destroy soul !
      Rich man and Lazarus a parable .

    • @aikonakamoto9030
      @aikonakamoto9030 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@davidmynhardt5705 The rich man's soul is still there. He can even see heaven and talk to Abraham. Where is his soul being destroyed?

    • @CappieBG
      @CappieBG 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ,, “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” '' Isaiah 66:24

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@CappieBGthe bodies, yes, but not the souls.

  • @nschlaak
    @nschlaak วันที่ผ่านมา

    This young man is under the misunderstanding that God's plan is fluid and ever changing. Adam and Eve thought that their son Seth was the promised redeemer and people were looking forward for His arrival from the very beginning.

  • @salt.talking
    @salt.talking วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    For some reason I feel that he didn't really answer the young man's questions.

  • @thetruthseeker-hk2kq
    @thetruthseeker-hk2kq 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    One must believe and accept jesus christ every day and ask to be forgiven, because we sin and if we do wrong to someone which we should never do but like if angry one day with someone ask for forgiveness and if you see that person again ask them also.

  • @FGSLTWJC
    @FGSLTWJC วันที่ผ่านมา

    This poor guy.....
    Guy: What's 2+2?
    Cliff: It's real simple... the sky is not green because...... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

  • @CappieBG
    @CappieBG 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    People are raised from the dead and judged with destruction and death at the second coming of Christ. You cannot defend the traditional doctrine no matter how you spin it. Also there are over 10000 verses that support conditional immortality, so we should go with what the Bible teaches.

    • @420Yako
      @420Yako วันที่ผ่านมา

      We all are gifted with eternal life, either with Christ. Or without ❤❤❤

  • @Isuba78h7
    @Isuba78h7 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    If a child was raped torture for years and murdered and he/she did sin in his/her life like lying and many like we do so does he deserve this torture because after death he/ she will go to hell because of the sin they committed on earth so they torture on earth as well as hell is this justice ?? Because according to Christianity only who believe jesus will get heaven and these things happen on daily basis everyday a child was raped molested but God didn't help them and many are not christian so did they deserve because whoever dies without knowing jesus they will torture in hell so why when on earth when this happen then people be like we want justice for that child but its okay that child goes to hell for eternity and torture for eternity because it's what said so its justify right????? I'm sorry if i hurt anyone but I'm a christian with struggling with my faith and that's my questions

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      You're struggling cause you have a brain 😊
      The hell they believe in is illogical and serves no real purpose besides not even. being biblical.
      I believe the worst case senerio there could actually be is anailation and I don't even think that's the case though it might be i admit.

    • @user-rf2tn8mk3f
      @user-rf2tn8mk3f 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Children do not go to Hell. When children reach the age of accountability, not being a Christian is the offense. They have to reach that though. If they die before, no Hell. If they die after, it was because they rejected Christ. Jesus knew the victim and the offender before they were even born. When the victim loses their life, it will be the same as when God gave them that life. Such things have always been with us, even before the birth of Jesus Christ on Earth. God has the ability to stop people from dying, raise people from the dead, and even the ability to give life to the very dust of the Earth. Not one action happens on Earth or anywhere in the universe without God's knowledge. In that situation, God will judge fairly based on their faith in Christ Jesus. If its there or not there. God will be fair about it. It is within his nature to do so.

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @user-rf2tn8mk3f what I meant by child is who is enough to understand what good n bad is like not only small children get raped also all age of children get raped and get killed children teenagers adult everyone then what will happen to them and Bible doesn't tell us that how can God judge if someone who doesn't know anything or if someone who had horrible experience in their life now I do believe God is fair but when I read bible then many stories It's hard for me to accept that as fair even I force my heart to accept ok now what I'm saying is that even adult are raped and torture and brutally killed what people say about this that they are innocent or they don't deserve that what was there fault etc etc ok but when it comes to hell then everyone is ok with that eternal torment for that person because he deserve that like we all deserve to be in hell so why in earth when they suffer then it's like they did not deserve it
      Again now if someone aborted their child then God will judge them or whoever kill a child then God Wil serve justice to that child because God is fair but what about old testament stories God told isralites that kill all even babies so how can God will serve justice to those innocent babies who got killed because he told them so I'm ok he told them to kill women men because they are evil but what about innocent and people tell me that they are in heaven now so ???? Is that mean that I can kill a baby then they will get to heaven and not to suffer in this world will God not judge me??? Because in bible they did so yes I agree that God can give life and take life but in this God didn't do anything he command them to do this by sword so what about the justice for that babies tell me??
      How those people get saved who born before jesus because in old testament time Jews didn't tell about God or spreading the word of God it's allowed in new testament that preach all creation not only Jews so what about those people who don't even know who jesus is and who the God is ??? Then obviously they believe in pagan god then ?
      What is the criteria of judging someone they belive in Jesus or not right?

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @user-rf2tn8mk3f what I meant by child who is enough to understand what is good or bad so what will happen to them and also not only children teenagers adult everyone get raped torture brutally killed on daily basis but God didn't do anything to help them but Judge when they die is that fair?? Now in this earth If this happens then you would say they don't deserve this we want justice for that person but when about hell you don't have a problem with that person torment for eternity because you would said they deserve it like we all deserve to go hell so why when on earth this happens you cry for justice because you said God knowing all this which is true that God allowing all this so how he will give justice isn't that what humans do when you have the hard times then people never help you they saw but when you did something wrong in that situation or whatever happens to you then people will judge you that you did wrong etc etc so? Is that right but people don't understand why someone did something or the decision they make they just want to judge nothing else so then what about God he even knows our heats yet he doesn't help and when someone help themselves then it's wrong so you want people to suffer always?? Now God don't care about what u did in life good or bad or what happens in your life because he only care that you believe in Jesus or not right now if u have child and when your child disobey you then will you burn them until they die because that's what hell is so you are giving fair punishment to your child by burning them because they did sin right?? Now in this world when you saw crimes and when the criminals got punishment would you cry for them no because we want that punishment for criminals because they deserve that so would you cry when your children also suffer no because they also deserve that suffering even eternal suffering no matter if your child did good things or bad things only he reject God right Now if someone torture and Brutally killed your child and that person have time to repent so he repent and get to heaven even after doing such henious crime but your child did not repent because that person takes his life and his chances to repent so he will go to hell right so where is justice to that child or God doesn't care about this because he only care about you believe in Jesus or not that's what matter to him so it's justice according to you is it fair according to you???
      Now if someone aborted their child then God will judge them and give justice to that child who got killed so what about the justice of innocent babies in the Bible because God told isralites to kill all men women and babies men and women were evil but babies?? If you are evil and God command some people to kill you and kill your child with sword so that's fair?? What would you say that kill me but not My child so tell me how can God serve justice to that innocent babies who got killed by isralites ??? Tell mee?
      And also How can people get saved who born before jesus because in the time of ot Jews don't spread the word of God to other people it's only for them and when jesus came he said preach all creation so how can God judge those people who didn't even know who jesus is who God is because they ( jews) didn't told about them and even it's impossible for human to spread something all over the world because many are died without knowing God so who Is responsible for this tell me we humans are even limited we can't control anything happening in the world
      But yeah according to you that's doesn't matter and that's what justice is??

    • @CappieBG
      @CappieBG 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Well using a child is the same as using an adult in your example living the circumstances that you listed. Its normal for you to struggle with this part, because the vast majority of humanity lived a short and meaningless life. Anyways if you read the Bible from beginning to end you will see that the wages of sin is indeed death. People will be raised at Christ's second coming and non-believers will perish/die/ be no more / be destroyed/ be ashes under the feet of the righteouss. Isaiah 66:24 is a good one ,, "Then they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of the people who rebelled against me. For their worm will not die, nor will their fire be extinguished, and they will remain an object of revulsion to all humanity." ''. Jesus was quoting Isaiah so all passages come from him. Now the question is does Annihilatonism make it better than ECT view of hell. Do the victims of the holocaust really deserve to be annihilated. Well we have to go with God's justice on this one. Because like you said everyday people die by murder so, should God save only those who died by particular regime or all victims? If you died before coming to Christ do you think you have an excuse why he should grand you with eternal life despite your sins ? If you are a Christian you have to believe God foreknew/foreordained the situation we are in, so that him showing justice on some people if not most is necessary so those who are saved glorify him in his mercy. But no matter how you spin it, from human POV it's depressing even with annihilatonism view especially if you have empathy.

  • @convinceme6676
    @convinceme6676 วันที่ผ่านมา

    For those of you who are parents, imagine if your kid did the most heinous thing (serial killer, child molester,etc.) would you torture your own child in the basement of your house for ten years?, 20 years? never mind eternity.
    What a twisted, abhorrent thought.

  • @JerryUpchurch-f2o
    @JerryUpchurch-f2o 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Jesus does not send anyone to hell. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” Rom 6:23 . Did Jesus say that God so loved the world that he gave his only son so that those who believed in him would not go to hell? No, he said so that they would not perish (die). Is it possible that Jesus was wrong or that he was lying? And that people who do not believe will not perish but will go to hell and live forever in hell. The Bible says unbelievers will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. So there is a death of the body and a second death which is the death of the soul. Mat 10:28 "Fear not man who can kill your body and then can do no more to you, fear God who can kill both the body and soul in Gehenna (The Lake of Fire). Is man immortal and will live forever as most churches teach? That is the lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden. How do we know that man is not immortal? The bible tells us that God put an angel with a flaming sword at the entrance to the Garden of Eden so that Adam could not return and eat of the tree of life and live forever.

    • @dilubagh231
      @dilubagh231 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Yeah but what if you believe in jesus still you go to hell what if after death jesus told you that depart from me I never knew you because in christanity if you make a image in your mind about God then it's also idolatry what if you made image of God in your mind and you believe in that God you made so or what if you sin unknowingly and didn't knew about that and didn't repent so after death you would go to hell?? Because there is no second chance after even if u believe in him

  • @issacr.1145
    @issacr.1145 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Hell is grave in latin. Hell is a grave or resting place of a deceased human. Hell does not exist.
    Acts 2:27. A soul that sins will die. The soul can't live without the body and the body can't live without the soul. Ezekiel 18:4
    The only torment is the last few minutes or hours before dying. Because the livng know they will die but the dead know nothing. Ecclesiastes 9:5 God is love, otherwise we wouldn't be here to begin with. 1 John 4:8 People who disobey the Christian law, not the Mosaic law, will be forgotten. Prov. 10:7 God will not put their names in the book of life. Rev. 20:14,15. The Mosaic law became obsolete when Jesus came to earth and then returned to heaven. Galatians 6:2. Romans 10:4. If hell existed, people would have to be physically alive or have a body. A ghost or soul would be like a spirit. They could walk through walls. So fire and heat would not affect them. God would never torture a human physically. Ezekiel 33:11. Only an evil god would do that. Thank God satan does not have the ability to do so. The Bible refers to the lake of fire as the second death. This lake of fire is symbolic and not real. This only means there is no coming back or resurrection from this death. Nothing can survive a lake of fire.

    • @joverstreet24
      @joverstreet24 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      You’re free to believe that.

    • @issacr.1145
      @issacr.1145 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @joverstreet24
      Please examine the scriptures that I left.

    • @bagelboy310
      @bagelboy310 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Are you a Jehovah's witness?​@@issacr.1145

    • @joverstreet24
      @joverstreet24 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@issacr.1145 I did. Hell is eternal separation from God. He doesn’t send you there. You send yourself.

    • @issacr.1145
      @issacr.1145 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @joverstreet24
      But god created this place???? A god that would torture a living being for eternity?? My God would never create such a place. Death is enough punishment in my book. We have to be humble, let it go, and leave everything in God's hands.

  • @karlhowe5181
    @karlhowe5181 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I don't know for certain what the ministers definition of hell is hard to comment becuse of that
    I guess i can presume he belivies in the burning in torment forever and ever Dante style of hell.
    🤔

  • @elkhuntr2816
    @elkhuntr2816 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Don't water down hell to try to defend God. He doesn't need to be defended. He is just. Look at Jesus description of hell. Its much worse than just separation from God, and you won't have any ability to choose your way once in hell.

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@elkhuntr2816 we don't have choice here either

    • @elkhuntr2816
      @elkhuntr2816 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@Isuba78h7 You do have a choice. Time is limited. Make sure you get it right, the stakes are high. Follow the evidence.

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@elkhuntr2816 listen I believe in Jesus because I'm a christian he choose for me to born in a christian family so it's easy for me to believe In him without evidence now what I meant by we don't have a choice because people didn't choose where they born in which religion they born in what culture or what circumstances they born now if you would born in Palestine then obviously you would not believe in Jesus and it will very difficult for you to believe in jesus so isn't that you have more possibility to go to hell than me because I born in a christian family isn't that partiality also now you telling me about evidence for what you thought I Don't believe in God No it's just what I feel I comment that it's God If he wills then something will happen I think I'm not claiming this just my thoughts

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@elkhuntr2816 so believing jesus get you to heaven then how can God judge those who born before jesus and don't even know who jesus is because Jews didn't spread the word of God that time and only Jews know about God so??
      And if a christian commits henious crime to someone and then repent then God will forgive them right but he will not forgive the one who is victim so isn't that injustice to the victim ?? Who suffered but didn't get justice and even after death just because they are non christian which they didn't choose to suffer for eternity because I saw many prisoners are also believing in Jesus so that means God will not punish them no matter if they ra* someone or torture someone or brutally k** someone the and also take other person chance to get saved. Because they are not alive and after death there is no second chance so it's all doesn't matter only thing matter is the believe in Jesus so they save from their punishment so it's the justice right??
      Now about sin that not every people want to sin it's just the life God gave us in which they struggle this will somehow leads to sin
      For example if someone told me about their secret and told me not to tell anyone and someone ask so I tell them I don't know so what did I do is I sin because I lied to that person even if I would tell him then it's also sin breaking someone's trust so if I did either I did sin I have no other option now so where did I came in this situation it's God who send me in this world No matter now God would judge me right I'm just giving an example no matter what situation you have only thing matter is you believe in God ??
      Let me give u an another example you are struggling with something ok and people didn't help you in your hard times so when you take some decision for your life that you don't want to but you don't have any other option to do so then people came only to judge you they would say they what bro why did u do you are wrong etc but what they don't understand is they are also the reason of your decision because if they help you then you don't have to take that decision in the first place so that's my question will God also do the same what people do to you No! Of course because people don't know what you have been gone through and when things get wrong that time also we don't have that mental state that what to do or not it's very easy for another person to tell you that do this or do that because he is not in your situation but God does know everything so if he would also judge me then where do i find peace ??? I just want to tell u that things are not in our control ok
      Now if I abor* a baby then God will judge me right I agree he have to judge me and serve justice to that baby because it's a mur*er but when it comes to bible where God himself command isralites to k* babies so now it's also a sin which he have to give punishment so how would God serve justice to those innocent babies?? Tell me but yeah now it's justify right isn't that partiality also that God will serve justice to many babies but not them isn't that injustice to those babies now If someone told you that he k* a baby because God told him to do so what would your response??? Would u say okay if God says or would u say that you are lying how can God goes against his laws ??

    • @elkhuntr2816
      @elkhuntr2816 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@Isuba78h7 "I believe in Jesus because I'm a christian he choose for me to born in a christian family so it's easy for me to believe In him without evidence" If you don't have evidence for what you believe, and you only believe because your parents told you, that's not good. That would be a very weak belief, if you really believe at all. You need to be ready with an answer why you believe what you believe.
      "if you would born in Palestine then obviously you would not believe in Jesus" Not true at all. Your belief should be based on evidence. There are people who believe in Jesus in Palestine and everywhere else on this planet, because it is true. We know the quran is not true because of the historical evidence surrounding the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

  • @PeterTaggart-y2o
    @PeterTaggart-y2o 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    This is why the original Christian faith (Catholicism) asserts there is also a place called Purgatory. I enjoy listening to Cliffe but Protestantism takes a very binary approach of either Heaven or Hell. The young guy makes good points but even Purgatory leads to heaven ( eventually)

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา

      Except the original "Christian" faith strayed from the path by adding in false doctrines, like purgatory. From John 14:6 - "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "
      Did you catch thst last part? No man comes to the Father except through *ME,* Jesus says. How does purgatory lead you to God if Jesus said no man comes to the Father except through Him? Purgatory, and indeed all of catholicism, preaches a works based salvation. It preaches that your good deeds get you to heaven, and faith in Jesus is just a shortcut. Except sometimes the shortcut still isn't enough so you need to go to a separate place, which was never mentioned in the Bible, in order to do *MORE* works so that you can be saved.
      This is pure blasphemy and there is no Biblical basis for it at all. There's a lot of that in catholicism by the way. When you look at what catholicism preaches, it becomes clear that it shares more with all the worldly religions than it does with a relationship with God.

    • @Nola-2000
      @Nola-2000 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@NovusIgnis I'm no longer catholic, I'm going protestant.
      But i can say you know nothing about catholicism : going to purgatory take a strong faith and only the sinful habits get cleansed there.
      You don't earn heaven because of how much purgatory you got through you earn purgatory because of how strong your faith in your Savior Jesus-Christ was and yet you are still not perfect. So instead of going to eternal damnation as you should Jesus-Christ gives you the grace to get your soul clean in a cleansing fire before an entrance in heaven the soul empty of sins.

  • @mattwatson-h5t
    @mattwatson-h5t 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    A person in hell will have his own love to keep himself or herself warm. It's a win/win. No God to look over you and you have yourself all to yourself.

    • @Flameninja21
      @Flameninja21 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      There won't be much love though if any at all, more hate and anger burning for eternity, if I misread this in some way sorry but hell is a place no one should want to go to.

    • @Nola-2000
      @Nola-2000 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      You have been lied to by the devil. Your self love exists only by the Grace of God. Without God your self love is nothing. Love is the property of God and he gave it to human souls but this part will return to him evantually.

  • @josephgalasso544
    @josephgalasso544 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The bible mentions 2 judgements one for the believer one for the non-believer ! Can God change his mind in either case ? Can the believers name be taken out of the book of life ? And can the non-believers be added to the book of life ! He changed his mind and relented when Moses pleaded and didn't torch the people ! So maybe there is a purgatory (Abrahams Bosom ) Where the rich man went ?

    • @Nola-2000
      @Nola-2000 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Wich 2 ?
      I'm still questionning about the last judgment and purgatory.
      But yes purgatory existed before Jesus it is almost sure. Hebrews prayed the kaddish a prayer to calm the souls in the Sheol so they could get into Abraham Bosom (peaceful version of Sheol). The book of Macchabes was used by the catholic church to prove the existence of purgatory.
      But the question of Chrisianity is more does Jesus forgive all the sins (no purgatory) or does he only open the gates of Heaven (purgatory but absence of hell for believers) ?

  • @TimBarr-e8p
    @TimBarr-e8p วันที่ผ่านมา

    The problem is that Cliffe is defending a Falsehood about Hell and is misrepresenting God and His Word and Hell...The Bible Teaches Annihilation of the Lost...See. 2 Pet 2:6...Eternal Conscious Torment ECT is NOT true but it is Insane...This lack of understanding is INEXCUSEABLE...SHAME on you if you won't correct yourself and become an ANNIHILATIONIST...Perish means Perish...

    • @cfs.vinnycruz
      @cfs.vinnycruz วันที่ผ่านมา

      Eternal means "Eternal"
      Matthew 25:46 states, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life".
      You cannot just say that you will spend eternal life in the kingdom of God but not eternal life in hell.

    • @TimBarr-e8p
      @TimBarr-e8p วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@cfs.vinnycruz Vinny ECT is NOT True...The Bible says the Lost Perish...Perish means Perish not ECT...

  • @catherinequake2621
    @catherinequake2621 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Hello!! man, what talking you, man?? Question : Is that fair?? Ans yes.
    God is love, just and holy Hell is meant for Satan...
    God gave us 2 choices to choose :
    Everlasting life or perish.
    Be saved by Christ or not, you perish.
    He allows it to happen
    because of free will if He has to stop every decision we made, then is not free will. And the decision you made not to be saved by Christ of cause you go hell (perish) decision made by you so how can it be God fault. He told you what going to happen before it happens ( He did warn us)
    You guys are stubbornly not want to be saved by Christ and not want to repent of your sins. So (Hell).

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@catherinequake2621 so when people call God for help then he don't help them but if they want to separate from him( Noone wants it's the situation or the life they have which leads a disbelief in them about God) then he easily grant their this wish right? Great

    • @catherinequake2621
      @catherinequake2621 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @Isuba78h7 when they pray and God does not answer their prayer because there is reason and purpose. Maybe their motive is wrong (which god they pray)
      I dont know because does not happen to me. When I pray, then I leave it to Him to handle. And it works in His will not mine.
      Pray for others in Jesus name amen.

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @catherinequake2621 so If someone was raping me and I asked to help me God so he don't because I have a wrong motive wow I know why you don't know because you don't live people life or you don't know about people struggle like we have many privilege that's why you don't know what's happening in the world now not all people pray for wrong things or all don't have wrong motive yet they didn't get helped even many people get helped even they don't call God why ? Like I heard people telling me so it's God's will whom he choose where is our will? We didn't choose to be born in this world we didn't choose our country we didn't choose are religion or family it's God who wills so now if I born in Palestine then obviously I would be muslim then and obviously I have more possibility to go to hell but many people also born in christian family so they obviously easily believe in God have more possibility then other person to get to heaven isn't that partiality everyone have different life not every people are same if you have the ability and strength that's doesn't mean that the other person also have that strength and every people have different mind why ? Because we born in different religion different culture different situations different circumstances n many more which we didn't choose ok and giving advice to someone and living in that situation is very different things now for some reason you would take decision so we have no option sometime but what people do they only judge like no matter what you have been going through but you did wrong but what they don't understand that giving advise is very easy like pray God etc etc but living in that situation is very hard and even worst ok so is God human No! So how can he judge even after knowing why we did that
      So. Many things here is just not justifying to me I can't accept that even if I force my heart to accept

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@catherinequake2621 So If someone is ki* me or ra* me and I asked help from God and he didn't help me because my motive is wrong?? And which God they pray so if they pray false God so also he don't help if that's the case then why God helped those people also who don't even know him who don't even call him ? And now obviously if they born in non christian family which they don't even choose to so obviously they will believe in a false God so who is responsible for this that they born in this humans???
      Now what if you would born in a Muslim family then obviously unknowingly you would believe in a false God right? Which even you didn't choose so you have more possibility to go to hell and some other person who born in a christian family then they have more possibility to get to heaven isn't that partiality
      Not every people have same life as yours not every people have same ability and strength like yours many people are suffering for many things like advising others is easy than to live in their situations
      Even people give their examples about their struggle life that they are also struggling but what they don't understand is everyone is different!!
      For example we see that many students suicide when they fail but also many don't so there situation is same but their strength or mindset or circumstances or where they born many things are different that's why it's different from other prospective
      So we can't give them our example and say I don't do that etc etc but every child didn't get good parents not everyone get good friends like you have ok so please understand please listen people's stories

    • @catherinequake2621
      @catherinequake2621 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @Isuba78h7 you don't understand my point. God can see through people heart . When they pray must be honest and sincere not lying or have other motive, I do not know why God never answer their prayer. Only God knows.
      For example...If they do not believe and trust in God.
      Why pray? Need help then pray don't need then keeping sinning against God. You think God is what idol.
      For example some people said they believe in God but you can see them gamble..show that they do not trust in God, that God can help in their finance. They believe in gamble to get more money. And this is wrong is sin. Repent.
      I end here, I have explained my point.

  • @davidwitt7522
    @davidwitt7522 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    the problem is every example you make is a bad person deserves (punishment). but what about people who never heard of jesus, the native amercans before americans came to us and slaughterd them do they go to hell. kids that are dying from hunger or war do they go to hell. and if they dont why. and if you say ingnorance or they dont know better they why would you witness then. also to say hell is punishement because of sin and sin keeps ypu outta of heaven. god loves you and died for your sins so you can have everlasting life. but.. elijaha wasnt perfect and he was tooken up by god so it seems like god can make up his own rules whenever he wants.. interesting

    • @joverstreet24
      @joverstreet24 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      God’s law is written on our hearts. Abraham trusted God and it was credited to him as righteousness. I feel like those who have never heard of Christ will be judged this way.

    • @Nola-2000
      @Nola-2000 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Jesus-Christ is know to have preached the Gospels to the souls in the Sheol/Hades before his Ressurection.
      So the souls of the past would be equal to the souls of Today. Don't you think God has a way for those who never saw Christ ?
      Jesus is filled with good surprise even China knew Jesus birth and death without influences. I wont even be surprise if Native american or mayas knew Jesus in some ways in this life or in the second.

  • @trenttaylor-n4d
    @trenttaylor-n4d 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Sure seems like a LOT of responsibility to put on a person, with such a short life, from a God who doesn't need my praise

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา

      And yet despite all of that, millions of people throughout history have still done so. Millions of people throughout history looked at the truth, didn't try to ignore or hide it, and they came to the logical conclusion. You sound like a child who didn't study for the test and then are angry when they failed it. How many chances do you need?!

    • @trenttaylor-n4d
      @trenttaylor-n4d วันที่ผ่านมา

      @NovusIgnis i have no idea what you just said... and what changes do you mean?

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@trenttaylor-n4d It was a typo, that was supposed to say "chances". I've corrected it now.
      And how do you not understand what I said? Which word was too difficult to grasp the meaning of?

    • @trenttaylor-n4d
      @trenttaylor-n4d วันที่ผ่านมา

      @NovusIgnis I'm gonna take a nap and see if someone else replies. Thanks. And it wasn't your misspelling and grammar that was hard to grasp, it was your whole point.

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@trenttaylor-n4d Of course my grammar wasn't a problem: it's actually perfectly correct. And of course my misspelling isn't a problem either: I never said it was and I also corrected that.
      You seem to have a hard time with reading comprehension in general, seeing as you mentioned grammar when nobody did and you alluded to the idea that I thought my typo was making the whole comment unintelligible, which I never stated. No, I was perfectly *clear* in what I meant: which *WORD* in my original comment was too complicated for you to grasp? Clearly you're struggling with understanding the comment, despite it being crystal clear in its meaning, so I can only assume that your vocabulary is so prodigiously lacking that you're coming across one or several words that you don't recognize. So which word or words are they?

  • @EdimarDiasdosSantos-kt1hh
    @EdimarDiasdosSantos-kt1hh วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    If you don't love and accept Christ as your savior you will be cast into hell, in other words, you are obliged to love like you were being raped.

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I guess by your definition then you're also *obliged* to obey the law of whatever governing body you're under the jurisdiction of. So why then do criminals exist? Oh, that's right: because there's still people who would rather take the risk of jail than live like a civilized human. Turns out there isn't actually any obligation at all, they still get to choose freely.
      Similarly, people are under no obligation to follow God. They can choose freely to follow God or to leave Him for eternity. But if you leave Him, then you're all on your own. And there's a whole hell of a lot of people in there with you and they all hate your guts.

    • @EdimarDiasdosSantos-kt1hh
      @EdimarDiasdosSantos-kt1hh วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@NovusIgnis , I don’t think you quite understood my point. Loving and accepting Jesus to avoid being cast into hell is very different from following rules. No one is jailed for not loving or accepting Biden or Trump as their mentor and savior, but according to some beliefs, if you don’t accept Jesus, you’ll be condemned to eternal fire. This is more like someone pointing a gun at you, forcing you to love him- like a thief demanding your money under threat of death, or even like an abusive situation where someone is forced to act against their will. The comparison to "following laws" is absurd here because the "choice" is between extreme, forced consequences, which, in practice, doesn’t feel like a free choice.

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @EdimarDiasdosSantos-kt1hh No, actually the comparison to following laws is *exactly* perfect because that's what's happening. People resist God because they don't want to follow *His* moral law. They want to follow their own desires. Do you seriously think that people would ignore and reject God if He told them that whatever they want to do is perfectly good and just? Come on now, you can't be that foolish.
      As for your assertion, you gravely misunderstand the nature of hell. It's really this simple: It's God's house and they're *His* rules. How entitled do you have to be to think that you can tell Him how to run His house? Let's go with your scenario then.
      Let's say God *doesn't* condemn you to hell. Let's say He lets you go into heaven, where you must follow His rules. It isn't an option you *must* follow His rules. God isn't going to let evil enter into His house, He's going to defend it and His children like any good father. So now for all of eternity you're forced to obey a will and law that you hate. That's fair to you? It's fine for us Christians, because we've *rejected* our sinful desires. We still have a sin nature because we were born into a fallen world, so we sitll have this disease that makes us *want* to sin, but in the new heaven and new earth, God is going to give us glorified bodies that *don't* have that sin nature. We actually *want* to follow God, but you've rejected His gift of salvation and sanctification and purification. You looked at your disease and thought it wa sa good thing and desirable, so when the doctor came to cure you you said "no". So now you have to spend all of eternity surrounded by holy light that emits form every believer and which hurts you because the evil inside of you recoils at that light. You have to spend all of eternity following a morla law that chafes at you. You have to spend all of eternity surrounded by all of the good things that we like but which you reject because they come from God.
      That's the scenario you propose. Does that sound good and just to you?

  • @issacr.1145
    @issacr.1145 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I don't understand why people, including Cliffe want hell to exist so bad. Is it really their great desire for people to suffer in so called hell?? Or is it a scare tactic to change people's ways?? Why do people want to believe God could be so cruel and merciless. Doesn't the Bible say turn the other cheek. Doesn't it say continue to lov your enemies. Doesn't it say God wish the wicked not to destroyed. Didn't Jesus say Forgive them, for they know not what they do. When an animal is suffering what do we say? Put it out of it's misery. Not even an animal deserves to suffer. I know there are truly wicked people in this world but remember what God said. Vengeance is mine. As long as these people are gone, out of site, out of way, it shouldn't matter that they didn't suffer. We should leave it to God and be humble. Hell does not exist. God is to loving to creat such a place. The only torment is the last few hrs or minutes before dying. After that there is nothing but eternal sleep. And I should know because I've completely blacked out before. For about 5 minutes. Between that time, I know nothing or saw nothing.

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      No hell in that sense I seriously doubt it exist.
      That would make God either less forgiving than the average person or a sadist. No matter how much I hated anyone no matter what they did at some point I'd say enough.
      What would be the point anyway..
      Besides man has no immortal soul. Show me where it says he does 🙂

    • @zaharishtonov
      @zaharishtonov 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I know you are coming from a good place. And neither Cliffe nor any other Christian talking about Hell “want” it to exist. In any case, they are just trying to give the world a big warning. For those who are not informed enough.
      Did you know that Jesus Himself spoke about Hell and not only that but that is the subject he addresses the most. And He certainly mentioned Heaven but just a few times. Jesus gave warnings. People following Jesus also give the same warnings too. That is all. It would be unloving not to give those warnings, because Christians love other people and want them to find peace and salvation rather than leave people to live in darkness. Now or in eternity.
      God is not cruel! Hell was originally made for Satan and his angels, the Bible says. For their punishment for rebelling against God. Those fallen angels joined Satan and they are bound in chains, awaiting their judgement. Satan however has a hold over this world through sin. Anyone who doesn’t follow God and His ways is a child of Satan. And if a person does not change their mind (repent), and they continue to follow Satan, they willingly are following him to Hell where he’ll eventually go. That is the reason why people go to Hell. God is loving enough not to force anyone to Heaven where He is and all that love Him back will follow and dwell with Him there forever. It would also be unloving for God to allow rebellious people into Heaven and mix them up with the righteous people that do love God.
      It seems that you are familiar with scripture and know some concepts. Please read the Bible more to understand the whole premise of it and get closer to God.

    • @NovusIgnis
      @NovusIgnis วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Maybe you saw nothing because hell is described as being fire and darkness.
      We don't want anyone to go to hell, but there is nothing unjust or u loving about it. *YOU* think it's unjust and unloving because the false god that you've created in your mind says so, but the *real* God doesn't bend to your desires. Evil has to be punished, and He has to choose *some* point in time to make it happen. Perhaps He has been waiting for exactly this time period where electronic communications exist so people can spread the word during the tribulation and convert more people. Perhaps He ahs been waiting for this time where AI reigns so that those who are too stubborn can cling to the lie that God's judgements are AI generated and false. We don't know!
      What we do know is that Jesus talked about hell many times, and the Bible describes it many times too. There is nothing unjust about people who break the law being punished. There is *nobody* that is innocent, we are all sinners and we all know the law.

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@issacr.1145
      In fairness to them I don't think they want hell to exist really I don't it only seems that way.
      Simply put they believe it does and it's naturally uncomfortable to go against your own beliefs .look that's what they were always taught. it's what other people that taught them believes ,people that are close to them good people that they admire and respect. In other words they think that's the way it's supposed to be.
      Even before people are saved before they are even Christsin or whatever they are they go into it with a basic idea of the way think think it's supposed to be. That why so many different interpretations because when we read something we read it in keeping with the senerio we were taught so it only acts to support what we were taught.
      Anything that goes against that we say to ourselfs it couldn't possibly mean that so it must mean this instead.

    • @karlhowe5181
      @karlhowe5181 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@issacr.1145
      Also, they believe justice must be served and since God is infinite then infinite justice it must be.
      They also believe humans have a soul an immortal soul and free will and since that's the case then if someone's unsaved the soul has got to go somewhere.
      It can't stay here and if it's not with God where elese can it go. so that's why they believe there must be a hell.
      Hey you asked 😁

  • @johnp4511
    @johnp4511 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Cliff your wasting your time with this generation their hearts are not open.
    You cannot reason Christ intellectually which contradicts the faith requirement

    • @Isuba78h7
      @Isuba78h7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@johnp4511 why their hearts are open is that a work of human or God ? Can I open someone's hearts? Can I change someone's heart? No! If God wills then it will happen