Thunder Junction is a Bad Omen

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
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ความคิดเห็น • 841

  • @TheRavenofSin
    @TheRavenofSin 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

    Here's my argument against making nagas snakes and viashino lizards: Wolves and werewolves. You have cards that work with wolves, cards that work with werewolves, and cards that work with both. This allows for different flavor and unique mechanics.

  • @joemontondo9113
    @joemontondo9113 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +88

    The fact that the first new world since March of the Machines is also the first one in recent memories to *not* get a Planeswalkers Guide to help flesh out the world is incredibly infuriating to me. This is the sort of set where we very much needed that sort of world building article but nope. Little blurbs about a bunch of characters we already new and two new characters that have barely anything interesting to add to the world in their bios. As a Vorthos and also a fan of Weird Western as a genre, I want to love this set and this world but it's just so *devoid of substance*...

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      I think we didn't get a guide because they just didn't put that much thought into it outside of "hey cool hats"

  • @Triceratopping
    @Triceratopping 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +229

    A weird thing about Thunder Junction is that it's the 100th expansion and it just feels like any other. For a big milestone like that I would've expected a big splashy return to the OG Dominaria, but instead we got a set with some of the clumsiest worldbuilding ever due to the usual soulless corpo incompetence.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +61

      Oh man, I didn't even consider that. Yeah, this should have been a celebration. Instead...

    • @Goldy01
      @Goldy01 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

      Nah, we've seen what they've done with Magic 30th... please don't let them celebrate ANYTHING else.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

      @Goldy01 I laughed hard enough at this to choke haha

    • @KodasGarden
      @KodasGarden 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      they've never done anything for the big milestone set numbers, so it not being a celebration didn't bother me

  • @moshimeshowu747
    @moshimeshowu747 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +61

    To add flame to the fire, they made VARMINT a creature type. Naga had to die so varmints could be in the game.
    Because of course, varmints are more important than Viashino

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      Oh yeah, of course! Can't wait for Nashi to be given the "Varmint" creature type

    • @brianzucaro6538
      @brianzucaro6538 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@RedBobcatGames Oh gods, I hope not... I love Nashi and actually look forward to more content involving them, but if they take away Nezumi from his cards, it takes away a big detail of their heritage and who they are as originating from Kamigawa.

    • @_Ve_98
      @_Ve_98 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      They are actually making them lizards to increase their importance by adding typal synergies, still. They could have done it better from an optics standpoint.
      Varmint, on the other hand, it's probably just a single use type that will rarely be ever used again. Just a gimmick.

    • @mishanya-da
      @mishanya-da 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@_Ve_98 the funniest thing is we also have pests as a type
      They are even in the same colors

  • @Maurcusj777
    @Maurcusj777 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +60

    This whole set is just the "League-ification" of Magic's lore and setting. It feels like a skin pack in a video game. No rhyme, no reason, this beloved goth character is now dressed like a 1930s mobster. This fearsome cyborg is now in a clown suit. Does it make any sense? No, but we need to sell micro-transactions, so shut up!
    The characters and setting aren't apart of a real, living universe, they are puppets and dolls to be paraded around, like keys jangled in front of an infant, so that WOTC can extract more and evermore money from your wallet.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      And in this world the only people happy are the shareholders. Everything else is in ruin

  • @robertmacfergus9288
    @robertmacfergus9288 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    What I find to be the weirdest part of this is that Wizard's argument essentially comes down to consolidating creature types for the sake of tribal, however they also add in the same set an opossum with the creature type possum. Which not only is scientific misinformation, they justify it as "its in a US inspired set so we will use the incorrect term some people in the US sometimes use"(not the actual quote), if they really were consolidating creature types they would have just given the opossum the creature type marsupial as giving every marsupial it's own creature type doesn't make any sense. It may seem silly but it does showcase just how blatant the hypocrisy is, this was literally in the same set.
    Having viashino and lizards at the same time is not a problem, one is sapient and the other is not that is enough of a distinction, but you can't have marsupials and opposums without it feeling really weird, it would be like having bird and pigeon.
    Mtg has 1 silver border kangaroo, 1 black border wombat and 1 silver border wombat, consolidate now not after you printed a bunch of cards that need an errata.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Preach! And don't forget the set has two "Varmints" too!

    • @casmiry
      @casmiry 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@RedBobcatGames The hell is a varmint? (I'm from Eastern Europe)

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@casmiry Now, I am very much the wrong person to ask. But I believe it's just a way of saying "Vermin". So, like rats basically

    • @ninjanyan1579
      @ninjanyan1579 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@casmiry A varmint is a little critter that happens to also be a nuisance. Squirrels, rats, gophers, and more.

  • @BCWasbrough
    @BCWasbrough 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    I remember feeling a lot of dread when Hasbro bought WotC. A lot of us worried that the company that relied on selling reskins of Clue and Monoploy would have trouble with a game as complex and culturally varied as Magic. As time goes on, I feel more and more justified in those fears, as the game has slowly lost a lot of the features and quirks that made it successful.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      Yeah. Hasbro don't know what they have. WotC is the only branch of that company that makes money, and they're killing it

  • @AbystomaMexicanium
    @AbystomaMexicanium 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +65

    The creature races original to mtg are one of the more interesting parts of the worldbuilding and pillar of its originality and distinction from other fantasy settings, retconning them into disappearing from the cards is just a terrible omen.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      Preach! I mean, what are Eldrazi and Phyrexians if not just Horrors?

    • @AbystomaMexicanium
      @AbystomaMexicanium 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      I find it really strange how *the* most popular TCG in the world is actively trying to lose its own identity.

    • @HitthaChoint420
      @HitthaChoint420 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Fortnite-ification

    • @varsoonhks3211
      @varsoonhks3211 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      It feels a symptom of Commander becoming the dominant format.
      There was no problem with having Viashino when you only had to care about their synergies in Standard.
      Now, when looking across every set ever, there's more pressure to make Leonin into Cats because Cats are an archetype and Leonin aren't.
      Pressure to make the cards fit a broader archetype flattens their unique identity but makes them bigger value pieces for more players.
      It's lame.

    • @DungeonMartian
      @DungeonMartian 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@RedBobcatGames come on, the phyrexians are artifact creature horrors :)

  • @yurisei6732
    @yurisei6732 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    It's been bad omens from MTG for years, the end can't be all that far off now. The lore implications of Thunder Junction are insignificant in comparison to the mechanical implication though. 47 legendary creatures in ~375 cards, and 24 of them spend significant portions of their power budgets either drawing cards or making mana in some way, with many just saying "when you use X mechanic, draw a card". I don't normally have a problem with commanderfication of sets, but this is absurd, and it has warped the set around it. There is no theme here, the way you're supposed to build a deck is by choosing a commander and then putting in all the colour-matching cards of that commander's assigned mechanic so that the commander can give you more resources.
    The major omen for me here is WOTC increasingly leaning into designing commanders that fix the big shortcoming of the commander format, that being that the normal play experience for commander involves having a lot of draw and ramp and a lot of casual players don't really enjoy putting those cards in their decks. This means more commanders that are just value snowballers in the hands of more experienced players instead of offering a unique twist on a theme, and therefore commander decks ending up more similar to each other because when your commander is only Generating Value, you need to make sure you have worthwhile cards to draw into and spend the mana on, and the worthwhile cards themselves have little reason to be related to whatever theme the commander is using as an excuse to generate value. I want splashy commanders that change something about how I play the game, not commanders that just speed up the deck I'm playing by writing "then draw a card" or "then make a treasure" onto some of my deck.
    Oh and I *really* enjoy the irony of "Nagas are now snakes because they're basically the same thing" being in the same post as "we're getting rid of the words totem and tribal because they're culturally insensitive", although I do actually prefer the creature type unification of animals with the animal-human hybrid races. I think it's just more mechanically interesting. I don't extend that to the mythical creatures though, because they're not just races - and if Naga is "snake" now, then Gorgon should be too, and Merfolk should be Fish and Kor should be Human or Elf or something.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      I didn't even think about Gorgon. OR the break down of what cards are actually in the set. You've made some VERY good points I wish I'd have included. God, this set is all over the place

    • @yurisei6732
      @yurisei6732 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@RedBobcatGames Yep, all over the place is one way to describe it. And what really sucks is that it wouldn't have been that hard for it not to be. If they had leaned into the idea that this was a "Commander Legends: Villain Edition" set, it could have been great. They could have had more aesthetic diversity and explored the commander design better knowing that it was going to be primarily played limited, and then they'd have had to put more thought into how the set was built around those commanders.
      As it stands though, it looks like every deck is going to use a mishmash of outlaws, plots, mounts, mercenaries, and crimes, because all mechanics are in all colours and there's nothing stopping you doing that anyway - a lot of things target, most creatures are outlaws and anything can ride a mount (including other mounts). And while doing these things, sometimes you'll draw a card.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Every set is a commander set now apparently

  • @firebornliger
    @firebornliger 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    It is quite telling that they took the idea "High-magic weird west setting" and made it incredibly lame.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Yeah, and also had to bring in a bunch of outside characters just to sell it? Like it wasn't enough on its own?

  • @JervisGermane
    @JervisGermane 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

    I'm with you on the creature type issue. If they wanted to errata creatures so that Nagas and Snakes could work together mechanically, they already have precedent for how to do it. When they changed Goblin King and Lord of Atlantis from Lords to their respective tribes, they also changed the rules text to say "Other Goblins" and "Other Merfolk" so they wouldn't suddenly include themselves. They could just as easily errata the Kamigawa Snakes into Nagas and have their rules text refer to Snakes and/or Nagas collectively instead of turning all Nagas into Snakes for the sake of mechanic synergy.
    BTW, they did Phyrexian wrong. Phyrexian should have become a supertype applied to all kinds of permanents and spells, not a creature type.
    I don't expect MtG/WotC/Hasbro to suddenly start getting this kind of thing right when they've been getting it wrong for over a decade now.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      Oh, like Tribal cards? How some Spells are actually Eldrazi themselves for instance. Yeah, that's a great idea! They should have totally done that!

    • @JervisGermane
      @JervisGermane 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@RedBobcatGames More like Legendary. Elesh Norn should be a Legendary Phyrexian Creature - Praetor. Phyrexian Altar should be a Phyrexian Artifact (And Thran Dynamo should be a Thran Artifact). Praetor's Grasp should be a Phyrexian Sorcery.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yeah, that's what Tribal is. Check out "All Is Dust" and "Not of This World" as example. I do love those cards and always thought it was a great concept they should have done more with

    • @JervisGermane
      @JervisGermane 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGames I don't want to pick a fight, but Tribal is/was a type, not a supertype. Supertypes include things like World Enchantments, Legendary everything, Basic lands, and Snow permanents. All is Dust has two types, Tribal and Sorcery, and one subtype, Eldrazi. So on the one hand, they could have errataed Phyrexian Altar as you're saying to be a Tribal Artifact - Phyrexian, but I'd have preferred if they made it a supertype instead, Phyrexian Artifact. Under that system, Phyrexian would be a supertype, not a second primary type.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Oh I see where you're coming from. I'm not sure I see the benefit of the difference though. Why make it a supertype instead of just using the established Tribal? Oh, and hey. Don't ever sweat starting a fight on here. This is just a card game and I love sharing my opinions on it, most of which I accept will be wrong haha. I'm fully prepared to be corrected basically at all times. Hope you don't mind me questioning your preference for it being a supertype, I'm just not sure I'd see why one over the other

  • @shrouded8797
    @shrouded8797 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +46

    My biggest question is: are these individual characters really more interesting than exploring and entire plane? I remember when I was reading the stories for Innistrad (the set when Nahiri was doing eldrazi stuff; I don't know), and in between the various short stories Jace was investigating with Tamiyo.
    Quite frankly, the Jace chapters were the least interesting parts of the anthology. I loved the short form horror of Avacyn going insane, werewolves, and that anthology cemented my love for the Gitrog Monster.
    But Jace was just...doing stuff? No atmosphere, no suspense, nothing. I feel like that's only gotten worse..

    • @shrouded8797
      @shrouded8797 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I dif a terrible job explaining myself. 😅 Sorry, I don't normally comment.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      No, I totally get what you were saying. And I agree. I LOVED those stories (I'm a massive Innistrad fan) but the Jace stuff was always the least interesting. They just had to include him because every narrative needs to be about known characters apparently. And I think you're right, it is getting worse. Which is such a shame because the Omenpaths gave us a chance to get away from that type of story device

    • @shrouded8797
      @shrouded8797 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      ​@@RedBobcatGamesExactly. I loved in your video how you mentioned that something that coukd be happening is literally gods from different planes trying to spread their religions. That could be AWESOME.
      On a different note, something I noticed with the most recent Ixalan storyline was how nothing had much time to develop. There I'm comparing to back when Magic had actual full length novels, which I found a few months ago and read. It was fascinating to read, for example, the entire series of events of Yawgmoth taking over the main government on Dominaria and founding Phyrexia, and also to read about Urza and Mishra's conflict the entire way through.
      The "episodes" just don't have enough meat on their bones for me.
      Sorry if this was long-again, I normally don't comment.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It's okay, I don't mind. And yeah, I miss the full actual books we used to get. Just makes me wish we'd go back to 3 set blocks

    • @W4llh4k
      @W4llh4k 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@RedBobcatGames 2 set blocks is the happy medium where we could see a world long enough to care about it. But not evem that would save us from the "1 PRODUCT LAUNCH EVERY MONTH" schedule they have. Because imagine we had followed the trails of clues thru this years release schedule to uncover in The horror set the lair of the murderer that's been attacking thru the omenpaths. But every other month there's an interruption to our attention via Universes Beyond, MH3, and whatever Wotc throws at the printers. We lose track of the storyline more than my PW decks when the table gets bumped. The problem here ain't the block model but the cadence of release stressing the currently undermanned staff. Maro is involved in all 10 releases, artists are in a about half each, if notnmore via concept arts, designers are planning next 3 years in advance all of the designs, and with every year getting more saturated, either Wotc absorbs other hasbro departments to supply man power, or we crash like the titanic under it's own weight.

  • @Insigneos
    @Insigneos 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +143

    When I first heard about the “nagas to snakes” and then the “viashino to lizards” announcements, I agreed with it for mechanical reasons. My stance was “flavor-wise they are leonin but they aren’t always leonin.” Like on Ixilan, they’re known as the malamet.
    It wasn’t until you brought up Mark’s previous posts on the subject, as well as the examples of minotaurs and centaurs, that I started to think about it more and I really appreciate that.
    Keep up the content!

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

      Well thank you very much. I hope it's clear that I'm no expert, and am really happy to be proven wrong. These are just my thoughts and... for lack of a better term "hot takes" haha

    • @the_devils_jester
      @the_devils_jester 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I think it's for the same reason that GW employees aren't allowed to say "roll a d6". Some corporate, very smart person decided that it might confuse new players. "They don't know what a Naga/Viashino/d6 is. This will make them hate our game!!!"

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      I honestly think it's not even that. I think it's the logic of "People love commander, and that's easier to design around if we have fewer creature types". Short sighted I suspect

    • @PUDRETE919
      @PUDRETE919 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGames The beauty of commander to me was the sacrifices needed to make niche themes/tribes work, for a "long" time Depala was the best Dwarf commander and her actual theme is very different

    • @_Ve_98
      @_Ve_98 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I personally think that the issue could be addressed by having special types that separate the animals from their humanoid versions while still making them share a type mechanically.
      Like, for example "cat-folk", or things along that template, would count as a cat but also as a "humanoid" (or however wizards wants to call it).
      Using Leonin and Viashino is almost like using "Chinese" to refer to Asian people, it's a gross oversimplification at best. But using Cat-folk or something less specific doesn't run into those issues while also adding a new axis to distinguish those creatures (humanoid/non-humanoid) that doesn't take up too much text for the creature's subtypes

  • @terthna7186
    @terthna7186 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    The reason Mark Rosewater is inconsistent with what he says is because he's a marketing mouthpiece; his job is to say whatever his employers think will sell more product, and that can change on a dime.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Apparently so. Which is a real shame

  • @james22022
    @james22022 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +52

    Personally, Thunder Junction seems like it was once again made to cader to the commander crowd. And as a commander only player, even I can see how much it's hurting Magic as a whole.
    A bunch of legendary creatures for the sake of legendary creatures isn't fun or engaging. The COOLEST legendary in the entire set, the main "antagonist" guy Akul, does not get his time to shine. In story or in card design.
    His card effect is fun, but it doesn't really fit his role as a leader of a gang of bandits. I feel like Gordan Ramsay asking "WHERE IS THE FLAVOR?!"
    Anyways, something something, feeding the TH-cam algorithm.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Haha thank you. And yeah, with you and Gordon Ramsay both

    • @yurisei6732
      @yurisei6732 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      The biggest sin of thunder junction is that it's designed to cater to the commander crowd, but as a commander only player I don't actually feel catered to because this isn't the side of commander I'm interested in. I like thematically interesting characters and unique, intriguing, wacky and memorable mechanics. TJ is neither of those things, TJ is card draw in cowboy hats. There isn't a single commander in it that I care about.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      "Card draw in cowboy hats" is such a good phrase. That was very fun to say out loud!

    • @jacobwiren8142
      @jacobwiren8142 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames As a commander player myself, I was only interested in a couple cards of TJ. I bought those cards, then I put them in my Omnath, Locus of Mana commander deck. WotC made no money off my purchase because I'm more interested in a card they introduced 15 years ago (holy shit its been 15 years!) because that card's design is interesting and flavorful and TJ is not.

  • @the_devils_jester
    @the_devils_jester 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Maybe Gisa is a really common Name in this dimension.
    Also now i want all humans to get the ape creature type.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Oh yeah, now you mention it when I was at school there was about 14 Gisa Cecani's. Very common name

  • @Izelor
    @Izelor 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    The story is dead, the game is dead, only the product remains. Paraphrasing Bolvar, Ugin's line to Jace at War of the Spark could have been: "Tell them that Nicol Bolas is dead, and Magic died with him"...

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Awwwwwww. This is heart breaking

    • @Izelor
      @Izelor 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames I made a prediction a few years ago, that Magic had until 2030 before it is discontinued. I believe that they are just trying to milk the cow for as much money as possible before it has nothing more to give and they scrap it.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I wouldn't be surprised if there were more layoffs this christmas

    • @Izelor
      @Izelor 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGames It's quite possible. Hasbro isn't doing well outside of Magic.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Oh cool! What great news! I bet the shareholders will be thrilled. I know who I'll be swearing at in a video again this holiday season then!

  • @xaropevic7918
    @xaropevic7918 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    The "multiverse is flat" is so nonsensical, not only is surprising that he shouldn't know what is a multiverse, even if he knew, what is the sense in it being flat, round, or looking like a donut?

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

      And again, HE'S A STITCHER! It's like going to your dentist and asking them about quantum mechanics

    • @richardharrison4762
      @richardharrison4762 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I can think of several good reasons why the multiverse should be a donut! 😋

    • @mymarshlands
      @mymarshlands 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      it's just a joke abt flat-earthers

    • @doylerudolph7965
      @doylerudolph7965 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@mymarshlands Yes, but there's no reason for them to exist in the multiverse of MTG. We don't come to the game for its biting political commentary, or its jokes about real-world issues.

    • @jacobwiren8142
      @jacobwiren8142 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@doylerudolph7965 Also, some worlds in the multiverse are LITERALLY flat, so not only does this joke fail, but it's also actively insulting to fans of the story. I LIKE that some planes have different physical laws. I wanted to see a flat world and all its problems and wonders... and we are never going to see that now, because WotC doesn't take its own stories seriously anymore.

  • @TerryTags
    @TerryTags 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +67

    Coming 2025: War of the Spark 2 - Indistinct Homogenous Soup Boogaloo

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      Every creature is legendary, IN STANDARD!

    • @cobaltplasma
      @cobaltplasma 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      It’s a long-play move to vomit out their own GameStop Fortnite Funko Pop culture clearance shelf.

    • @mitchhodges9789
      @mitchhodges9789 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hillarious!!!

  • @tristenbezayiff571
    @tristenbezayiff571 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    i see alot of people saying it was made to service EDH, but it really doesnt feel like it. Like getting an oliva card with the 3 best colors for vampire tribal, and building her around treasures.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      I'm still annoyed Olivia didn't get these colours in Crimson Vow. She couldn't even have her own wedding ring or bridal gown in a deck she was heading. Madness

  • @bartoffer
    @bartoffer 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    I think the Naga->Snake and Viashino->Lizard are consequences of "commanderification," in that Tribal is popular in the format and is one of the easier (lazier) ways to design cards. You necessarily want to avoid redundancy so that the various synergy cards affect a greater suite of creatures, even if this ultimately diminishes flavor. I quite agree - Leonin should be their own type, as should the Aven. Of course, one could argue that Avens and Leonin are early precedent in the opposite direction.
    So far as the story goes, it smacks of "design by committee," which is an odd thing in an era whereby we're likely to see more hasbro-wizards layoffs because the interest rate isn't returning anytime soon to that historic 0%, and stones still do not bleed. So much of Magic's issues with consistency and being a vapid downstream bog of uninspired tropes could genuinely be solved by handing one or two people (with actual writing chops) creative control. Why, they wouldn't even need to run the risk of outsourcing story writing leading to contradictions and scenarios like the War of the Spark thing!

    • @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles
      @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      _* k i n d r e d_

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @bartoffer After this was written and recorded Maro released a statment that said something akin to the set's theme was meant to be "villains" but marketing push "look at all these cowboys" instead, leading to a slightly confused release. Very strange times

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles And yeah, you're right. I'm not sure why they've made that change, but I suspect it's for sensitivity reasons. I wish it had occured to me before writing this and I would have changed it I suspect. I realise habbit isn't an excuse, just something we need to get used too.

    • @bartoffer
      @bartoffer 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles Are you being legitimate there? I can't really tell.

    • @bartoffer
      @bartoffer 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@RedBobcatGames Yeah, I feel like he's lately been playing quite a lot of nonsensical damage control. I think a lot of people got annoyed about "it's X, but in a cowboy hat!" and suddenly there was a scramble to excuse it as something other than lazy pandering memberberries. The mechanics themselves don't feel particularly "villainous," even if they actually are fun in draft.
      I suppose it hearkens back to an earlier point we agree on - if this was a three-set block, these ideas could've properly germinated into something coherent.

  • @dannybeane2069
    @dannybeane2069 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Note I'd asking the following not because they reflect my own views or that they are right, but to intentionally make Wizards uncomfortable and have to answer for their actions:
    I almost want to ask Mark Rosewater when they are planning on errating centaurs to horses, minotaurs to ox, humans to ape, and orc to mongolians.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      It's weird. Even Mark Rosewater himself said on his blog it's weird if Naga are snakes are the same. Yet they do it anyway? Baffling

  • @horridparlor
    @horridparlor 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Slush art with cowboy hats

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Somehow worse than slush art with detetive hats

  • @THMCTerracraft2
    @THMCTerracraft2 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    So like Hearthstone is a funny World of Warcraft interpretation with comedic or creative changes, MTG is now a funny interpretation with comedic or creative changes of... something.
    Also i would like humans to be erratad to apes, it would be funny, call them monkeys even.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Weirdly, if that's the way every other race is going then yeah. I think they should do that. Why do humans get to be special while every other sentient race is just an animal? Weird. On the otherhand, I REALLY hope they don't do this because people would use it as an opportunity to be awful to each other. And that's no fun

  • @wesleymclain9146
    @wesleymclain9146 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Disclaimer: Numbers pulled out of my ass with a minimal amount of research but they seemed reasonable.
    If OTJ is sold to local stores at a price point of $70 and then retails for $90, enough OTJ to run 4 drafts of 8 people with 3 packs each is 96 packs. That's a minimum of 3 boxes of OTJ solely for drafting: ~$210 out of pocket for the stores with slim profit margins because the set is probably going to flop. Then they will have to pay for 4 MH3 commander decks I'll guess are going to be priced at about $60 for stores, upped to $70-80 for customers due to high demand. This totals to effectively paying $550 for 4 commander decks for LGS.
    In short, this is just increasing the price of MH3 with extra steps.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Oh yeah, for sure. And because it's the special collector commander decks I bet they'll be A LOT more money that that too. I mean, look at a Collector Box for like £200 - £400. A collector Commander deck I bet will be about the same price

    • @gatesofnocturne3700
      @gatesofnocturne3700 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      sadly OTJ play booster boxes are sold to stores closer to $110

  • @kevin4061
    @kevin4061 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I'm ok with Naga being redacted because it literally means snake in sanskrit. Naga was named Naga in riki-tiki-tavi because of that. I'm also kinda ok with ajani being a cat and Viashino being lizzards for mechanical reasons. It was one of the dnd sets that released a viashino trible comander that you can't actually use because their arnt a whole lot of viashino cards. And for cards like Ajani if you have him as lionen but cards that affect the cat archetype but it can't affect my big sleeper agint cat boy? They could do something like the outlaw mess, but thats a mess, you have to remember all the sub types that are outlaw while deckbuilding. I think fewer sub types the better mechanically speaking

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Oh yeah, I 100% get why they've done it from a mechanic stand point. I just hope they've stopped to think about the weird narrative implications that go along with it. WotC do that sometimes, but you know what they say about roads that are paved with good intentions...

  • @Drewbe821
    @Drewbe821 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Considering they moved the canonical center of the multiverse from Dominaria to Ravnica, so they don't have to try when it comes to story writing, none of the narrative shortcomings are remotely shocking. They don't want to write story, they want to play cardboard dress-up with characters from the multiverse without having to waste energy on plots and story arcs.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I think you're right. I just hate it

    • @Drewbe821
      @Drewbe821 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @RedBobcatGames friend, you are not the only one. I've been in this on and off since The Dark.

  • @Shark_Byte_
    @Shark_Byte_ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Related to the later half of the video, Im really rubbed the wrong way by the removal of viashino (same with naga this is the recent iteration) seeing the creature type Viashino made me want to explore the story of them. I like getting little snippets THROUGH THE CARDS that pull me into the games lore. Mechanics are fun and we all love a good gimmick but Lizard Folk Rogue isnt gonna hit the same as Viashino Warrior ever

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      No. Another reason I'm not a fan of the change

    • @huckbrown33
      @huckbrown33 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I personally I think the messages from mark before about not changing naga to the one now show a world of difference as if he doesn’t agree with the decision himself or he would rather not say more about it

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah. I think he knows he's on the hook for defending the choices before but now being the one to announce the change. It's very strange

  • @laughingskuls7000
    @laughingskuls7000 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    The Naga / Snake argument was very interesting, I would have never considered it.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I'm not a cultural expert, or educated enough on the topic to be certain. This is more just my hot take I suppose so am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. This is just my gut reaction when I look at choices like that, and... I dunno man. Those kind of changes have implications that make me uncomfortable

  • @ReyaadawnMTG
    @ReyaadawnMTG 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    That's a really cogent and well put together statement on the creature type changes and I applaud you for standing so strong and firm in your beliefs on it and you are absolutely correct.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Well thank you very much. I was, and still somewhat am genuinely worried that I've come across as offensive in some way. It can be a delicate subject and I'm concerned I didn't handle it with enough care OR that i would be accused for insincerity for clout or click baiting or something. Thank you for your comment, it means a lot to know that people seemingly understand my intention. Thank you

  • @icholi88
    @icholi88 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    The creature type reversion is evidence that they have moved away from standard as their primary audience. Having tribals under more generic names means they are usuable longer or have more interest in eternal formats, while making them unique creature types was an intentional design choice in the past so people explicitly couldn't use them in those archetypes in eternals so they could be more bold with their design without fear of breaking something.
    More evidence that commander is killing the game.

    • @tarkus1113
      @tarkus1113 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      This set was 100% Commander bait and that gut feeling was true.

    • @BIacklce
      @BIacklce 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Tribals have to have something unique to them in order to exist and continue to represent that trait in some permutation. Otherwise, I don't think they should.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I say go the other way with it and get really granular with the types. It will make deck building all the more interesting when you find things that work together at the very least

    • @PhoenicopterusR
      @PhoenicopterusR 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      The commander WotC thinks people play, or the commander the players want to play? Because I hate this as a commander player. The niche subtypes were super fun to build around, give me more of those and actual support for them.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Yeah, I'm the same. I love the weird old cards no one expects

  • @CarmenCards
    @CarmenCards 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I understand the Rakshasa change the naga one seems like trying to do that with something that as far as I can tell no one was upset with.
    Honestly though if we had gotten a planeswalker guide that would of helped with a lot of the vorthos issues

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah, good point actually. Though, that would mean they'd have to have put more thought into it and I'm not sure they did. This all feels a bit slapped together

  • @davidmaxwell4696
    @davidmaxwell4696 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    The Naga thing *really* annoys me. Rosewater's very quick to tear that guy apart (Around 12:40), basically saying that WotC is being respectful & inclusive to the SEA community and how dare the asker be so Eurocentric (Which is the word you're looking for Mark, not "Western Hemisphere") but like, WotC has never been respectful with their use of Naga. Hell, WotC has consistently struggled to be respectful with the use of any non-European mythology even when dealing with a plane centered around that mythology, typically sticking to inaccurate versions that would be familiar to Western audiences rather than the cultures they claim they're respecting. Like Amonkhet's sphinxes being blue-aligned Greek sphinxes associated with riddles, prophecy, and knowledge rather than proper Egyptian sphinxes which are metaphysical spiritual guardians (Which should have, imo, been white-aligned not blue and functioned as the plane's angel-equivalent).
    I can't help but laugh when Rosewater says "Naga is a very resonant and popular mythological creature", because what he's really referring to is the Western *idea* of what a Naga is not what Nagas actually are in their originating mythologies. Mythological Nagas are divine/semi-divine entities and their appearance varies a lot depending on the culture, from half-human half-snake to many headed serpents. If MTG was actually trying to be respectful, Nagas would be presented on a similar level as angels, demons, archons, and other entities given a similar level of prestige and respect--instead they're treated as random joes with 9-5 jobs. Nagas in MTG are literally just a renamed version DND's Yuan-Ti (Which are already problematic in and of themselves, WotC has historically loved to exploit SEA cultures especially to make something seem exotic or mystical--see the implementation of Rakshasas in MTG/DND or the use of names like Chandra and Jaya).
    He says Nagas shouldn't be reduced to the level of base animals, but instead they were stripped of any sacredness and respect they should have had and reduced to the level of a mundane humanoid race like humans/elves/dwarves/etc. You're not using "tropes from around the world" Mark, you're using a pop culture interpretation of foreign cultures that will appeal to a Western audience and trying to pass it off as accurate and respectful to its origin. Like trying to pass off Taco Bell as authentic Mexican. Nagas in MTG should've always had the snake creature type because all they ever were was anthropomorphic snakes, calling them Nagas was only ever a shallow attempt to pretend WotC was being more respectful in their worldbuilding.

    • @gatesofnocturne3700
      @gatesofnocturne3700 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      what really concerned me was they had lorwyn, something that seemed to respect Irish/British fairy mythologies, then they made Eldraine. If I remember right, Rosewater even mentioned that nobody cared about the accurate stuff, they wanted the pop culture version, so we'll probably never go back to Lorwyn because... it was too much work? i dunno

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @gatesofnocturne3700 I actually do think we're going back to Lorwyn soon, and I am really worried about it. But that aside, I loved reading every word of what you wrote @davidmaxwell4696 . I know I'm not as informed on subjects such as these as I'd like to be. It's why I always try to make a point of saying that "Hey, I'm no expert. I fully accept I may be wrong and am willing to be corrected." You taught me a lot just now, and it's a lot to think about. But it's nice to know I wasn't a million miles off in my initial understanding, and that other people think about these things like I do. WotC say they hire cultural experts for these sorts of things. Maybe that's why they've changed Naga to snake then? Because they're already so far off the mark? I'm unsure, but thank you for your excellent comment

    • @vitsajfrt6108
      @vitsajfrt6108 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The thing is, say with the whole thing is I agree. Disrespecting cultures like that is a shame. But I have a personal reason why nagas honestly should have been a snake. And it's not a tribal reason. It bloat. If the game gets a lot of these one block/set creature tipes. There is going to be so much bloat. For example, do I think something like orochi and nagas should share the same acreature type? No. But making an orochi a creature type is not the answer either. I think there should be a balance. Meybie has something like a dual creature type. Like snake naga. One type would describe what it is, while the other would describe like a sub creature type. Like phirexian wizard. I do apologise if it was not clear.

    • @bluphilosopher9910
      @bluphilosopher9910 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Honestly as a someone who is Indian and has grown up with the stories of naga and rakshasa's and the like I don't find these interpretations all that disrespectful.
      At least to me these just seem to be different interpretations of the mythological creatures in the same way how elves and angels aren't all that accurate to there own respective mythology.
      This who thing smells more like a bs corpo answer to a mechanical change being disguised as something else.

  • @reks334
    @reks334 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I had a weird feeling while watching the previews and seeing where the story was headed and you managed to express that feeling into words, I totally agree with you even though after playing the set I have to admit it is pretty fun to play limited but I don't know how much that reflects on the quality after it being extremely clear that all the random characters that make an appearance are from the scrapped aftermath boosters

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I'm yet to play the set. Hoping to get to it soon. Out of curiosity, were you referring to any particular point I made that you said expressed that weird feeling you had? I also had a weird feeling when I first saw previews, and my gut instinct was over the art direction for the set. Everything else came later with research and reading the story

  • @mawillix2018
    @mawillix2018 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Last time I watched a video of yours I was in the hospital, but this time I'm at home! (Still recovering, but at least I'm not stuck in a hospital room connected to a machine!)

    • @Otacon2099
      @Otacon2099 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      feel for ya, whatever happened its just life...stay strong

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      I agree with @Otacon2099 I hope you're doing better, and thank you for watching. I also hope it's entertained at the very least

    • @Otacon2099
      @Otacon2099 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@RedBobcatGames yippie i got noticed twice

  • @wafflezz52
    @wafflezz52 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Rakdos joining the crew made me mad, "eyyy we got all these humanoid reasonable people... And an 8ft tall amalgamation of rage and death... But he has a new hat!"

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I cannot remembe for the life of me what video I was making, but I cut this whole section comparing the size of Rakdos in his different card depictions. Sometimes he's 8ft tall, sometimes he's a big as a building. It's mad

  • @Tornakin-98
    @Tornakin-98 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +52

    One other problem with the notion that the plain was uninhabited before the omen paths are the cactus people.
    They are already kind of coded as Native American, and are implied to have lived in Thunderjunktion for a while.
    But I guess because they don’t look human enough they aren’t people, so they don’t count.

    • @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles
      @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      Lmao as soon as I heard "uninhabited" I was like "ooooof that's super problematic" I thought it was an attempt to sidestep the historical baggage and they just fell on their face and "oops all colonial propoganda"'d but if they actually present a species native to the plane in cards.... that's... pushing the "do not attribute to malice what could be explained with stupidity" to it's absolute limit.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

      You know what, this is a very good point. I can't remember, do they confirm in the story that the Cactus-kin are native? Because if so... oof

    • @Tornakin-98
      @Tornakin-98 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@RedBobcatGamesaccording to the MTG wiki (not the best but the only place I could find anything) they are from Thunderjunktion but are a “young culture” what ever that means.

    • @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles
      @JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@Tornakin-98 "yeah these guys _are_ native to this plane, but don't worry, they haven't even invented irrigation!" WotC is _this_ close to their next announcement just being "Surprise! We colonized this small nation and converted it to a magic the gathering theme park while enslaving it's native inhabitants!"

    • @cablefeed3738
      @cablefeed3738 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That's not what happened at all​@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles What happened? Is that their were plants But no sentient life yet And then the energy from the omen paths Did a bunch of magic stuff Do to thunder Junction being a crossroads of many omen Paths Making them gain sentience then. So yes, the cactuses were on that plane as normal cactuses before the omen Paths dumped a bunch of magic into this plane.

  • @jawsomejasper8353
    @jawsomejasper8353 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think the viashino and naga changes are mainly for mechanical purposes. There aren't enough naga or viashino to support an entire tribe, thus they put them together with the snake and lizard respectively. I do think this could have been fixed in a different way especially because it takes away from the creative work so many people have put into both the creatures and the game in the past

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, I can see all of that. I just think it's weird because they went out of their way to tell players they couldn't change Nagas to snakes for cultural sensativity reasons... and then did it anyway. Very odd

  • @Matti_Mattsen
    @Matti_Mattsen 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    8:29 perfectly describes my main issue with this set and also Karlov manor. Well done

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Thank you. I just hope I'm not still complaining about this in future sets

    • @Matti_Mattsen
      @Matti_Mattsen 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@RedBobcatGames Just finished watching the whole video, just as an addendum, i don't think WotC is trying to label everyone whos "different" as animals (akin to the label of people of color as monkeys, apes and other racist slurs etc, which is what i think you're refering to).
      I do think however, if anything, WotC is going too far off in the other direction. Almost as if they are ashamed of their 90s high fantasy roots and what it entails. Having original, distinct creature types tied to your setting isn't something you have to apologize for and try to errata it away just to be more palatable. People in the western hemisphere are allowed to have a culture too. Now everything has to blend together because they fear they aren't inclusive enough otherwise

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh yeah, I suspect you're right. My point was more about how it looks from a certain perspective. Not so much how it actually is. If I'm being honest I believe the choice was purely for gameplay and no other reason. Still not a great look though and makes me uncomfortable

  • @Itachi45481
    @Itachi45481 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    They couldn't just make a cowboy set with no aftermath set heck i remember over a year before when we had little info I remember a wizard executive saying this set was a race across the multiverse so yeah very confusing

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Oh, I thought that set was still coming. I assumed it would be about cars or something. Is Thunder Junction the set he talked about?

    • @Itachi45481
      @Itachi45481 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGames I believed it was but I could be wrong which just goes to show how poorly executed this set was and I liked some parts of the story (some like in your video the implications just boggle my mind)

  • @__8120
    @__8120 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If human got changed to ape my only concern would be with how it would greatly affect all of the human tribal decks. I admit that this may put me in a minority, but I really genuinely don't care. Myr tribal was the first deck I ever built. If myr got errata'd to just construct or even phyrexian, it would just mean I would have more good options for deck building

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, that's fair. Like I said in the video, even back when Naga were first introduced a large portion of the player base wanted them to be snakes

  • @simplegarak
    @simplegarak 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I cannot look at the lore of this set without getting a massive headache.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      For me it's my heart that hurts. I look at all these characters in dusters and cowboy hats and wonder what are they even doing?

    • @simplegarak
      @simplegarak 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@RedBobcatGames I think Maldhound inadvertently explained the set with Kevin.
      th-cam.com/users/shortsadc8EYMuf60

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Awesome

  • @elsanto2401
    @elsanto2401 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    A western themed set where the plane is "uninhabited" is just....like I get that this megacorp wrote "Cowboy" on whiteboard and then put the rest of its effort into internal brand recognition and avoiding pissing anyone off, but if you're going to engage with the western genre you cannot avoid the cigar store indian at the front of the general store. America was from the Atlantic to the Pacific brimming with hundreds of cultures built over thousands of years made of people who could be just as noble and ignoble as anyone from the old world. In critical moments they aided the Europeans and in return they were villianized, infantilized, died from disease, exiled from their homes, and killed in textbook definition genocides through conquest and starvations. Its like an exorcism of ancestor spirits, "the land was free to take, there was never anyone here to mourn".

    • @Max-nt5zs
      @Max-nt5zs 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah for real. These woke idiots have completely surface level understanding of the cultures they claim to love so much and so you get all ancient Amerindian culture jumbled into ixalan or in this planes case, only a few scant references.

    • @johndoe9343
      @johndoe9343 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Not that it's a good excuse, but any representation of Native Americans in this set would probably come off as cultural appropriation to at least a handful of individuals, and that type of controversy could hurt some stupid bottom line potentially. Therefore, seems like there's little reason to poke the lion's den.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @elsanto2401 It makes me wonder if the "The land was uninhabited" angle was a last minute addition. They said they hired cultural sensitivity experts. Maybe that's why the change was made? It might explains why we haven't gotten a planeswalker guide for Thunder Junction

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @johndoe9343 I think the absense of any natives is a weird choice in and of itself though. Like, First Nation's peoples aren't worth remembering. Odd

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @Max-nt5zs I hear the word "Woke" used so much, and maybe it's meaning is clear in the states, but I've never heard a consistent definition for it. From context by your useage, are you saying people who like other cultures are woke? Or are you saying that offensivly conflating two cultures into one without bothering to understand either is woke?
      I took a break after MoM for a bit because that set sort of broke my brain, so didn't really look to closely at Ixalan. Was that set full of harmful stereotypes?

  • @peterdafox
    @peterdafox 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Holy shit i love your content. Ive had my own thoughts on the viashino lizard thing for a while now and it's just so nice to find a channel with a similar outlook. Keep up the good work!

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Why thank you very much!

  • @DeWillpower
    @DeWillpower 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    i was really curious when you said in another video that you don't like the change from hound to dog as someone who 1. started playing with tarkir where there were some (humanoid) hounds 2. knows about the test card(?) about hounds changing name 3. made a custom card which is a dog lord (+1/+1) and seeing a lack a dog creatures on scryfall
    and now i know why, i agree with everything you said

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Haha, thank you. Glad to be of service

  • @Phe0nix1986
    @Phe0nix1986 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This is so incredibly in depth and well researched. Massive respect. Also very good points… very interesting!

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There are so many sources linked in that description. I did actually do my homework on this one. Next week I talk about a Star Trek universes beyond as a little treat to myself haha

  • @shawnmcdonald7017
    @shawnmcdonald7017 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Dang, I think this is the first video of yours that I've agreed with literally every point.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Oh that's dangerous. That way leads to madness

  • @fcliverpool6167
    @fcliverpool6167 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    First video I ever see of you, but really impressed! You perfectly describe the weird vibe I have been getting in the last years, which might not solely based on me growing older

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Well, welcome. Thank you, and I'm glad you enjoyed. But I hate to tell you this, I'm not exactly young anymore so maybe it's that we're both growing older haha.

  • @rosecooldude1024
    @rosecooldude1024 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    The red bobcat card needs like gain +1 power if you are cynical or something. It's way worse then yoshimaru a 10 year old card.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      "The Red Bobcat gains indestructible for as long as you can maintain a nonsensical rant"

    • @rosecooldude1024
      @rosecooldude1024 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@RedBobcatGames And maybe it gains bobcat creature type untill rosewater decides its cat agian.

    • @richardharrison4762
      @richardharrison4762 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I’m waiting for the crowdfunding for limited edition Red Bobcat cards

    • @richardharrison4762
      @richardharrison4762 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGamesgoes infinite with Droning Bureaucrats

    • @akiraishin7141
      @akiraishin7141 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@RedBobcatGames I will make this a real card if I can give it to you via Po Box

  • @captianbubbles4674
    @captianbubbles4674 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I haven't had anyone else to talk about this with, but Thunder Junction feels like an Unset to me. All the cowboy hats getting slapped onto pre-existing characters, all the references to outside material... It feels like it was meant to be a silver border set, but because WotC decided they wouldn't do silver border sets anymore, the team had to scramble to make it an actual legal set.
    It feels like a mishandling of the magic IP, and I seriously hope that a lot of this gets undone later on, but I'm not optimistic.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I agree. A "Space Beleren" style card wouldn't feel out of place here if it were cowboy themed. If they'd have just said "Hey, this is the 100th set and we're getting *wild* with it. Pun intended" I'd have been on board

    • @captianbubbles4674
      @captianbubbles4674 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames yet again proving that doing away with silver border cards was a mistake. Heck, even if **part** of the set was silver border, case in point being the "Named characters but with cowboy hats", with the rest of the set being standard and eternal legal, I'd still be more interested in it than I am now!
      Now there's an idea; Use the guest slot for silver border cards rather than reprints... And just print the needed reprints into standard, or into sets like modern horizons!

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      People don't buy silver bordered cards though, and that's what it's all about now. The money

    • @captianbubbles4674
      @captianbubbles4674 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames which is a tragedy at the end of the day. Who knows, maybe one day Hasbro will go bankrupt and someone who actually cares about art and fun stuff will end up in charge.
      Not likely I know, but a man can dream.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I suspect if / when Hasbro goes under, WotC will be LONG gone before then

  • @lordrumfishsmagicarena271
    @lordrumfishsmagicarena271 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    There are a lot of relevant problems you bring up, and I'm not sure how to tackle them. Thunder Junction has a high power level and what looks to be a fun limited format, so it's probably going to be popular, which only makes the other problems worse because WotC won't face punishment for it. I share your concerns, because if we can't hold them accountable and they take the wrong lessons away from a successful set, the problems could snowball.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      As I understand it, I think the general vibe is that peopel aren't keen on the set? And after the flop of Karlov Manor they may learn a lesson? Fingers crossed

  • @Amonkevin-qo9ob
    @Amonkevin-qo9ob 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    When I heard about how the Omenpaths would connect the multiverse together. I was cautiously optimistic. One of my favorite magic cards from last year was 'Troyan, Gutsy Explorer,' because it showed a non-narratively-relevant person choosing to go to another plane by choice. But since then, I haven't really seen anything that actually really addresses why these planes are connecting and what the purpose is in the story besides a Super Smash Bros. Style crossover. It's not like you couldn't make those kinds of crossovers interesting, like you mentioned in the video. We could have had diplomatic relations between planes established. If someone that wasn't a tree was the murderer on Ravnica, they could have ended that storyline by having them escape to another plane through an Omenpath. Even the idea of a wild west set is a great setting people were asking for for a reason. The western plains are full of beautiful scenery and native american cultural traditions. They made the easiest, most risk-averse choices designing this set and the omenpath arc in general.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And they seem to be in a rush to get to this cross over aswell but having every native of every plane just cool with it, like it's the most natural thing in the world. I realise they don't want to echo real world xenophobia, but some of these planes are literally home to monsters! If they don't want to deal with the implications, don't tell the story. You know?

  • @scottcampbell9515
    @scottcampbell9515 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I agree with all of your points. Perhaps making the Magic worlds into a Magic world will allow them to (unnecessarily) forcefully add other IPs into the Magic "world" via story telling instead of just cards. Gross.
    The Magic story really has not mattered since Eldritch Moon when all of the effort into telling an amazing story was just YEETed by the players when they smashed Emrakul and Liliana into the same deck instead of having a scenario where they both fought each other. It's a shame.
    ...at least we still have D&D...for now.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah, I've bailed on D&D sadly after the OGL scandal. WotC are really going downhill lately

    • @scottcampbell9515
      @scottcampbell9515 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames I stayed with it but the breaking point for me was Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything (That No One Asked For). The character creation rules in the 2014 PHB are just fine, and my current group has not once asked to play any race beyond that book.
      Unlike Magic we can still play with (big quotes here) “outdated” material.
      Fuckin’ Ha$bro.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I moved over to Pathfinder, which is amazing because they post all the rules for free online. Love it!

  • @fran6329
    @fran6329 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    For me the creature type change is probably related to the release of bloomburrow where there will be tribal synergies. From a gameplay standpoint, I think it’s kinda cool that I can mix new and old cards that wouldn’t fit before together. I understand the goal isn’t to belittle these races/species of fantasy people, but a gameplay decision.
    That being said, just give nagas and viashinos interesting tribal synergies instead or give them the snake/lizard creature type in addition to the naga/viashino type. Might start to get wordy, but I prefer that second solution a lot more than deleting a subtype.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I agree. And I feel any decks would be themeatically more interesting in that situation too. Snakes and Viashino should't play the same, and decks around them shouldn't have the same mechanics. ONE OF THEM DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ARMS!

  • @arrowrandoman
    @arrowrandoman 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    All I can think to make the worldbuilding make sense is that there was a miscommunication about how long it's been since the last set's story. Either that, or there was miscommunication about what Thunder Junction was like before the story. There's a lot off more that irks me from what you're presenting though, so I'm thrown off as this is the set I'm coming back to.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I think 90% of my issues from the narrative could literally be traced back to "The plane was uninhabited". Just don't do that, and I'd have mostly been okay with it I think. I wouldn't have liked it, but been okay

  • @simplegarak
    @simplegarak 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Also I do love Viashino too and have a for awhile. Probably the biggest issues with Naga are the 4-armed snake folk from Kamigawa. I think they are kind of the deciding factor because IMO, if Naga is a race then those creatures should probably be more Naga than snake.
    Though I do think it... odd? how werewolves when they were first released had a lot of cards which specified "and wolf" on them. There is some logic that werewolves should probably be the types "human wolf" but regardless, I'm with you on wanting more consistency.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah, one way or the other. This middle ground has some... implications that make me uncomfortable

    • @simplegarak
      @simplegarak 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@RedBobcatGames it's one of those things I think comes down to gameplay vs flavor.
      Like there werewolves, you understand why they don't want to write out "viashino and lizards" on a bunch of cards. On the other hand, you do also understand wanting to expand deck options for tribal themes.
      Then when you get into these different planes and such, there's more confusion. Like should dragonkin folk be dragon type or viashino type? Should kobold be their own thing or folded into lizard or viashino? Or like you bring up, catfolk vs cat beasts. Heck I think you make a fair point, what if we just made humans, apes and monkeys "primate" types and let them all then work together? (let me give kird ape a butcher cleaver!)
      A lot of magic creature types seem to be geared towards messing with OCD types. Like why are demon, nightmare, and horror all different types? Undead and skeletons?
      OoTJ however may provide a possible solution. What do you think if they did more "batching"? Like "outlaw" references a bunch of types. What if instead of making viashinos into lizards, they started referencing "scalefolk"? Or nightmares, horrors and eldrazi became the "eldrich" batch? Stuff to think about.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, I think for me the line is between the intelligence of the creature. I don't think Lizards and Viashino should ever be grouped because they're just not the same. Unless it's a supergroup of every single type of Reptile

    • @simplegarak
      @simplegarak 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames oh here's a quandry: horse, unicorn, pegasus. Should they remain separated or be unified?

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      If we're following the logic WotC seem to be following, then they'll all be grouped as a type of dog

  • @aka_rook
    @aka_rook 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I was entertained. Spent seventeen minutes nodding appreciatevely and smiling knowingly.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Ayyyy, that's basically all I'm after. Thank you!

  • @eggsburst789
    @eggsburst789 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    6:55 - I think they were talking about the last name Cecani, as in they might have come across Geralf before her?

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I mean, maybe. But even that's wild considering how many people must be passing through the plane. It would be like knowing the brother of some random person you bump into in an international airport. It's possible, but this story doesn't present it as a coincidence or rare occurence

  • @gryfyn71
    @gryfyn71 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have a head cannon about why Thunder Junction, and to an extent Karlov manor and the upcoming bloomburrow seem to have narrative oddities. Karlov manor was "every one you know with a detective hat' followed by "every one you know with a cowboy hat' then "every one you know as an animal.' and I think the reason is that this is all a fever dream of Jace. Caused by an interaction with Ashiok Jace is simply hallucinating this all and thats why is all seems like an 80s TV show dream sequence or the ending of the Wizard of OZ movie

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh man! Can you imagine? The fan base would riot if this were true! "Oh hey, the last few years of sets were all a dream, so forget about it because Jace is awake now" would anger SO MANY people! I'm actually sort of into the idea

  • @callumbyrne4263
    @callumbyrne4263 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thunder Junction does feel like a set with WOTC smashing all there action figures together. The main thing it reminds me of is the opening of Toy Story 3. I've enjoyed it for what it is but I think we have the potential for magic to become something lesser.
    Also on a following note, the choice to do a cowboy/western set and not do anything to examine the racist, classist routs of the genre and time period is very short sighted, oh how convenient that this entire plane was empty. Viashino being reduced to Lizard is one thing and then making there iconography very linked to that of Mexican bandits from early westerns is another

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      OH. MY. GOD. I didn't even pick up on that. I'm going to look at every "Viashino" right now!

    • @callumbyrne4263
      @callumbyrne4263 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@RedBobcatGames I'm a fan of westerns, done right they can be amazing films but Magic is taking the tropes and iconography without properly examining it. I like the set, gameplay wise its super good! I'm just disappointed that the level of cultural scrutiny was not put in like they did with the revisit to Kamigawa

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      And yet they apparently hired consultants for it

    • @callumbyrne4263
      @callumbyrne4263 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGames Hmm, i'm certan they did but...yea some stuff in this set is not great

  • @GutsyTen42
    @GutsyTen42 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Hmmm a 1/2 for R as a legendary creature? Have you considered you might need ward 2?

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I'd like to imagine I came in like Armageddon and destroyed all lands. That's sort of my vibe haha

    • @GutsyTen42
      @GutsyTen42 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@RedBobcatGames we might need a few more mana for that haha, but fair nonetheless

  • @Big_Dai
    @Big_Dai 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Magic's storytelling, to me, died with Jace and friends taking center stage. I loved Magic's almost top-down view of the worlds, where people did things, but people didn't matter. We didn't need writers (which were good in the PAST, the stories are terrible now), as we could imagine a Plane living to its potential.
    Killing Phyrexians with a whimper, and adding Omenpaths to the overall story is a GIGANTICALLY stupid move. Homogenizing world building, as you aptly put it, is awful.
    Honestly, it feels like a Commander or Horizons/Masters set now. There was no love or care before, they sure as hell won't do a good job now! And the whole baby-Yoda-mascot attempt with "Loot" seems desperate.. not to mention they still cling to their crappy-character Jace (who is not Ashiok, and is not Phyrexian either?)! Even after all that happened, he somehow returned..
    The Viashino situation reminded me how Kamigawan Orochi becoming Naga in all but name. Which, in retrospect, was also dumb.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I hear a lot of people saying that Loot is there to chance a younger audience. But, come on. Get real. What younger audience could afford these prices? If WotC cared about getting kids into the game they wouldn't have killed of Draft Boosters.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Oh, and you're totally right about it seeming desperate too. It's just mental

    • @Big_Dai
      @Big_Dai 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@RedBobcatGames If trying to appeal to younger audience is true.. is cowboys the right plane to do it in?
      Anyway, it's all nonsense!! And I'm SHOCKED that Magic has stayed its course doing these strange maneuvers and still thriving. So, in a way, it is at least interesting to experience.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      True. I guess you're right there. I'm not sure who this set is for honestly. Apart from the CEOs of course

  • @ClexYoshi
    @ClexYoshi 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    ... yeah, you make some convincing arguments, Mr. Bobcat. the Viashino thing does indeed make my skin crawl and your feelings on art are super valid. It also speaks volumes to the failures in world building that things I do think the writers have explanations for are something you perceive as plot holes rather than mysteries... Like, Gisa's befuddlement at Thunder Junction's dirth of dead on a supposedly vacant plane is meant to make the readers question, and I have a feeling that the presence of the coin empire's vault is meant to instill implications.
    WotC have to keep the line going up. we're just getting to the point where it's starting to come off the rails because we're laying track as fast as we can.
    I can only hope that Bloomburrow isn't as horribly muddled by... everything to do with Thunder Junction's muddled world, and that when we do finally go flying off the track into a ravine, that they haven't irreparably damaged the game to the point that passionate people can't pick up the pieces.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I really hope those old rumours of WotC breaking away from Hasbro to stand on their own come to pass. It would be great if they could just slow down a bit and put a bit more care into each release

    • @yurisei6732
      @yurisei6732 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I think the thing you might be missing here is that in order to be able to do Unanswered Questions, you absolutely need your audience to trust you. No one trusts WOTC's writing, so they don't think "ooh what's going on here?" they think "wow that's dumb"; and then when it's suggested to them that it may be setup for a future twist, they aren't willing to believe WOTC will adequately pay it off - and even if they do pay it off, it'll feel like dumb payoff, possibly even retcon, because the initial emotional reaction was still thinking it dumb.

  • @V1C10US
    @V1C10US 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I think all the feedback they need to not makes the same mistakes again has been received. Now it's just a matter of time to see if WotC right's the ship, and that will take years to get through sets that have already been developed. We do have some case examples of them making the desired changes. The cancellation of Thunder Junction's epilogue set being one of them.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Totally. I just feel I'm in the minority when it comes to the opinion of "Hey, stop doing erratas to old cards. Leave the types as they are!"

    • @gunararayhanramadhan2304
      @gunararayhanramadhan2304 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RedBobcatGames a 100% a minority, I think making Viashino into Lizards is a great change.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @gunararayhanramadhan2304 If it's 100%, surely it's not the minority then? I'm messing of course, I understand what you're saying. And sure, there will be people that like the change. There were people asking for Naga to be snaked all the way back when as I showed in the video, so that's not new. I'm just not one of those people

  • @Aredein
    @Aredein 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Hey, lets petition to errata human subtype to primate and errata Monkey and Ape to Primate as well. and consider all spells targeting human, ape, monkey - shall be referred to primate. Now that's gonna be funny

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I mean weirdly, if that's how they're going to treat all of the cards then I'd be on board. But, on the otherhand it would be an excuse for people to be terrible to one another and that sucks. I don't want that, so I still feel the best solution is to make a point of keeping the fantasy species as they are, and IF we're going to errata anything, go back and make all the Leonin actually have that type (for instance)

    • @yurisei6732
      @yurisei6732 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      That's not synergistic enough. Errata all spined animals to the Vertebrate type.

    • @Aredein
      @Aredein 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@yurisei6732 That's a call to put Spore into magic

    • @Aredein
      @Aredein 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@RedBobcatGames You also forgot that Hounds got errata'd to dogs.
      Wonder if Jackals are still Jackals.
      And Tarkir has Ainok that were named as Hound subtype.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @Aredein Oh trust me, I will never forget that Hounds got errata's into dogs

  • @PineapplePinesol
    @PineapplePinesol 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The naga tangent was odd, Wizards might have hoisted themselves on their own petard with the inclusion comment but it's not out of the ordinary for a race to be called what's it's related to such a kitsune being called foxes.
    There's not anything racist there, it's just a game classification and no one is using that as a cudgel to insult people with, or at least o haven't seen it.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, I understand. I'm just echoing back Mark Rosewater's own justification for why Naga couldn't be Snakes in the first place. He's the one that said it was for cultural sensitivity reasons, so if that's the case then I have to assume that now Naga are snakes they're being culturally insensitive. I personally also think it's a bit weird. I wouldn't have Kitsune be foxes for instance, just like I wouldn't have Leonin be cats. I find it odd

    • @gunararayhanramadhan2304
      @gunararayhanramadhan2304 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@RedBobcatGames I would

  • @mountainghoti1671
    @mountainghoti1671 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Loot, a beast noble? Looks like slush art from Dr Who. It's an alien.
    But put a hat on 'em, and they belong here.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I wonder how many other types of hats we're going to be seeing painted onto characters? I can't wait for the set where everyone's a pilot

  • @kargoncoppercoin2093
    @kargoncoppercoin2093 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I didn't even know about them consolidating creature types in this set until I watched this. And just today I was talking to a friend about how I liked the new creature types they added and how I wished they made more varmints so I could build a varmint tribal deck. It is awfully strange how they are making new types but deleting others

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Give it a year or two and I'm sure "varmints" will just be "rats"... and then eventually just "beasts"

  • @adaubu3063
    @adaubu3063 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think smugglers share makes sense on a flavor standpoint. The idea of interplanar travel being a reality for plenty of people is a new concept. And a trojan horse is a theros thing in cannon, so I feel like someone from there suggesting the idea in another plane makes sense. Personally I think it's a cool piece of world building that expands beyond putting a bunch of named characters in a plane.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Sure, I can see that. For me, it's a bit camp and I worry it further cements the idea that the distinct flavour of each plane is disappearing. As far as I understand the Akroan Horse was a one time thing for instance. I'm not sure people from Theros tend to solve their issues with a big wooden horse. So I guess my concern is that this might be evidence that because when you think Theros, you think Greek myth, then that's all those people are now in this current era of Magic. Just like Thunder Junction is the plane of Cowboy hats, Theros has become the plane of big wooden horses. In an interconnected multiverse then the only identity a plane has left is it's gimmick, boiled down to a caricature of it's former selves. Maybe next time we go to Lorwyn everyone can just put on a red hat like a garden gnome and be done, because paying shallow lip service to a plane's identity is WotC's new way of "world building". Theros is nothing more than Greek Myth, Amonket is nothing more than Mummies, Innistrad is nothing more than Vampires and Zendikarr is nothing more than the Eldrazi.
      Or maybe I'm just being grumpy.
      It's probably that last one to be fair haha

  • @Crockist
    @Crockist 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I came into this with immense skepticism but then you nailed it with Viashino, my ABSOLUTE favorite creature type. Last legendary viashino was Kylox, who, in the story, was kidnapped and immediately stabbed to death for no reason. Seems pretty reflective of the card type.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Haha, I mean. Yeah when you say it like that I have to agree! Ouch

  • @Vokda77
    @Vokda77 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't think it is a bad thing to include creatures or creature types from other recent sets into a new set because it allows for expansions of those tribal decks in the meta. I know wit might suck for the story and the blending of the world building but I have always cared more about the evolving game play then the lore.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I have no issue with that at all. I just wish if they were going to print Lizards then they should actually be Lizards. Removal of card types just sucks imo for many reasons. I find it a feel bad

  • @Cookiedive
    @Cookiedive 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I looked at the time code

  • @recino2
    @recino2 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    To paraphrase Monty Python: "I warned you! I warned you! But did you listen? No, it's just a wee little omen path."

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      "A deck can have any number of cards named Spam"

  • @jesuschrist9677
    @jesuschrist9677 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thunder junction felt better than i thought it would, but it still feels bad for the future of the story. Its way too early for this type of smash bros masterbatory set after march of the machine. Why are all these people here? They cant all be trying to do the big robbery, why is marchesa pissing about while her plane is rebuilding. Who is in charge of the story at this point?

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      God knows. I want to know why all those corpses from (apparently) other planes are dressed like cowboys when we see them. Did someone dig up a bunch of bodies just to make dusters and stetsons for them?

  • @hachi9404
    @hachi9404 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    never thought about the naga and vishino situation like that, and I think I agree, well spoken

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Well thank you very much. As I've said in some other replies I was worried I would come across as insincere or offensive, so I'm really happy to read comments like yours. Thank you

  • @awesomechilled9779
    @awesomechilled9779 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    OTJ didnt really get a chance from corporate from what it looks like. I honestly think the MAIN set if fine from a mechanical perspective and could have been a really good draft format if it weren't for 3 bonus sheets of cards too powerful for this limited format and play booster dumping bombs on people that determine your draft archetypes for you. there's even good snippets of lore like the jace epilogue in this set that COULD have been built into something better than the sum of its parts, but was left to rot because this set is in the spin cycle of corporate misuse

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Reaping the effects of pushing out more and more and more. Constant new product releases mean less time to fine tune each one. A real shame

  • @xxthevampirate
    @xxthevampirate 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Turning naga into snakes is a functional buff and the fact that they have a 'class' denotes that they are intelligent species but if you have a snake deck your Naga now work with them. You arent a snake shaman like Steve without the years spent leading your tribe, that's what separates Ajani from a simple savanna lion

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      So if a Leonin doesn't train enough to get a class then those ones are just basically lions? Is a Naga doesn't become a shaman it's no better than a snake? I'm not sure I agree if so

  • @zachbattles9762
    @zachbattles9762 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good points!
    I like imagining Tamiyo (before she died) traveling to each major character in the multiverse, jotting down their story, then providing them with a massive lore-dump-scroll of everything she knows about the multiverse before jetting off to the next place.
    Who knew that kindly loremaster was so busy?
    🤦‍♂️
    Maybe it will make sense later 😂

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's some headcannon I can get behind to be honest. I do / did love Tamiyo

  • @Neocyberman1
    @Neocyberman1 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Im actually not too miffed about geralf knowing about the multiverse. Theres been two or three multiplanar catastrophies on innistrad alone. What does get me is just the loss of potential by having every single legendary character interacting at once.
    Think about the recent Ixalan set, its very much a story helped along by the interactions of a handful of non-ixalan characters interacting with an existing conflict on the plane.
    You can feel the uniqueness of the plane while also getting unique problems only characters with a different perspective, like quintotius, would be able to solve.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Fair point about Geralf, but I'm still not convinced. Our world has gone through a lot of strife recently, but I wouldn't expect my dentist to be an expert on global warming for instance

    • @Neocyberman1
      @Neocyberman1 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @RedBobcatGames true. I think the "legendary" and named status of characters does a lot of heavy lifting in my assertion. However I work in customer service and talk to a lot of people and tend to find their interests wide ranging and strangely deep.
      Also not helped by the fact that "I" am a diner cook that knows a lot about global warming. Something that skews my outlook on this.
      But this also brings up another good point you made in the video about how much "implication" is doing work for the story rather than being explicit.
      It's part of what pains me about the writing of some magic stories. Some sentences can suck me in with interesting implications, but im also kept away because ive been burned waiting for resolution before.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think that's WotC's MO though. A bit like the writers for "Mystery Box" stories like Lost. Ask a bunch of questions, state a bunch of weird stuff, maybe pick it up and answer it later if anyone cares, don't worry if it doesn't make sense. I'm really not a fan of that type of narrative and I don't mind doing SOME of the heavy lifting in terms of understanding the plot, but there's a line and we crossed it back during March of the Machine for me

  • @ameliaward7429
    @ameliaward7429 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Imagine thinking that you will open an LGS so you can be your own boss. Lol

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Man, there's so much going wrong with this set that I had to read your comment twice before I remembered the video opened on a section about holding back Modern Horizons 3. Damn

  • @lanaalways
    @lanaalways 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Return to Return to Return to Ravnica into "we're just cowboys now"

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You think the hats just appear on people when they arrive? It would explain why everyone's dressed that way

  • @xekon14
    @xekon14 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This was an interesting watch. I don’t plan to get anything from thunder junction except maybe some of those special basic lands. Changing viashino to lizards but not Minotaur’s to cows is just so out of the left field and weird. I personally don’t care as much but it’s going into the wrong direction. The direction being a grey slop of brand marketing. I’ll stick with the cards I have. I hope they change for the better in the future but if these last two sets are anything to go by it’s going to be powercrept, sloppy developed and tested and anything special being erased until there’s nothing of the original vision left.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      If the changes were uniform, I still wouldn't be a fan. But the fact that, as you say Minotaur's aren't getting it. Weird. Just a weird thing to do

  • @David42424242
    @David42424242 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    awesome thought provoking content, keep it going!

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you very much. I was a bit concerned about this video, but it's been nice to see such support in the comments. Thank you

  • @crayyonnyadrav4055
    @crayyonnyadrav4055 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You sound like a World Noble from One Piece now. They say Merfolk are just Fish.

  • @Zarbon000
    @Zarbon000 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’m confused why it’s Wizards faults artists are stealing eachothers work and the quality may be suffering. Wizards puts out prices for cards and the artist agrees to it. If an artist doesn’t like the terms they don’t have to do it. Or am I confused?

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No, just looking at it from the wrong angle slightly I feel. Wizards are the ones who control the way the system works, and currently they incentivize artists to create work as quickly as possible, no questions asked. It's not that the artists aren't to blame for plagiarism, (they are) but Wizards also have to take their fare share of that blame for allowing it to happen in the first place, and to be honest I'd even go so far as to say encouraging it. Also, Wizards are the boss. It's their game, their product and they're the one who distribute the art. So another reason they're to blame is because they're in charge. The buck stops with them.

  • @KBV1497
    @KBV1497 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Shame to see the
    Viashino go. Always thought they were cool, and poor scaly lads and forgive me if I'm wrong, got no cards other than draft chaff. Also, why did they print like at least 3 viashino in Karlov Manor if they were planning on ditching the type. Surely do it then.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Who even knows what's going on with that company tbh

  • @inquisitorgrand
    @inquisitorgrand 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think part of what helps distinguish sentient animal races from nonsentient ones is that the sentient races have a class or occupation creature type in addition to their species type. Laughing Jasper Flint isn't just a lizard, he's a lizard rogue; Sidisi isn't just a naga (or a snake now, I suppose) she's a naga/snake shaman. While the homogenization of sentient races into their animal counterparts is a very sensitive subject, I think it's partly assuaged by the fact that the sentient ones are clearly separated by virtue of having a class. Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Charmed Stray are both cats, but Brimaz has the capacity to be a soldier, to be a king. It's not the most tasteful solution, but with typal/kindred synergies being a popular play style, it's not all bad.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think it's weird that they already solved this issue on Innistrad. So many cards say things like "Other Wolves and Werewolves get X" that I don't know why they don't just do that again. Outside of wanting to cram more and more text on a card of course, but that's another thing I'm not a fan of

  • @bluemanblue2316
    @bluemanblue2316 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Wait the end credits were so good tho

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Glad you enjoyed! haha

  • @C._Bradford
    @C._Bradford 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The naga as depicted on magic cards are not naga as they are depicted in their original mythologies. They are a western bastardization of them. Naga arent snake people in hinduism or buddhism but rather magical sentient snake like beings more akin to chinese dragons. Same issue with the rakshasa. It has nothing to do with cats but gary gygax saw one depicted as a cat guy one time and now thats the only interpretation anyone recognizes.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, but they are correcting that now. I believe the "cat" type of the Rakshasa has been removed, and I think this is one of the rare times where I'm okay with that. I just wish they'd reprint all those cards with the correct text, and maybe even update the art too

    • @C._Bradford
      @C._Bradford 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@RedBobcatGamesI'm saying I don't see why you are complaining about it like it's a removing the types is a bad thing. They were portrayed in a way that has little/nothing to do with their mythological origins. I don't know how removing that is "problematic"

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm not saying it is. I'm just holding a mirror up to WotC. They said Naga couldn't be snakes because of cultural sensativity reasons, and Naga are now snakes. They're the ones that made the act problematic, I'm just pointing it out

  • @asdf-pd1uj
    @asdf-pd1uj 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Incredible video. Most things I've seen and known about thunder junction so far rubbed me the wrong way, but I had no idea about these other issues. I never would have even thought about the creature type changes, and was unaware of the greedy tactics and the artist mistreatment. Thank you.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Well you're more than welcome. Glad you enjoyed

  • @JustaSmilingHedgehog
    @JustaSmilingHedgehog 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The only retroactive typing changes which are okay are from old cards like Zombie master being changed into a Zombie, or Empress Galiania who has been only labelled "legend" instead of Merfolk Noble. I wasn't even aware of the Typing changes for Vashiano and Nagas because you know, ITS NOT A DIGITAL GAME WITH PATCH NOTES ffs.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No, and yet they expect us to know these things some how. I honest think they want us to google each card each time one is played

  • @TheSushiandme
    @TheSushiandme 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This set is insane. I pulled 14+ mythics per play and x16 per collector boxes. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      See, that to me is also a concern haha

  • @Shark_Byte_
    @Shark_Byte_ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I'm not saying or implying anything but like, I do not like the Fblthp art...

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      See, this is what I'm saying. WotC's track record makes you suspicious of everything artwork you see

  • @AndrewS-vu4ji
    @AndrewS-vu4ji 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    On the point of the worldbuilding, i personally feel like they were going for "this is a timeskip a little more ahead of what we're used to" but they just didn't make that clear in the story.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Even so, I'd still question why everyone's moved there. Especially people who are royalty or heads or families and factions on their home plane. Like, Olivia. My love. You declared yourself the Lord of Innistrad. GO HOME!

  • @Ellie-Angela
    @Ellie-Angela 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Something that's been standing out to me in recent years thanks to hindsight, which Thunder Junction is kind of the epitome of, is the decline of the originality of planes for... a really long time. The magic (hah) of discovering worlds completely alien to us such as Mirrodin, Ravnica or Lorwin has long since disappeared. I'd say the biggest starting point of it all is Scars of Mirrodin. And yes, Scars of Mirrodin was an awesome block, but... when you boil it down, it's just Mirrodin meets Phyrexia, two parts of Magic we've seen before. Then came Innistrad, which is just gothic horror Magic. Then another return to an old plane with Ravnica. And then Theros, aka Magic but add Greek myths. And I really liked all of those, even if it annoyed me that Jace became the new guildpact in the Ravnica story. But well... the problem is that this trend continued ever since. What new planes has there been that's not just "Take this culture or genre and run with it" since then? Kaladesh. And there's Ikoria and Arcavios which... they at least do go beyond the classic trappings of their genres a bit. Tarkir, too, is a bit more than just "mish-mash of middle-eastern cultures". So, if we're generous, 4 out of over 20 plane hops were new, original planes... And honestly, I don't think any of those work as well as the original planes shown between the two Mirrodin blocks in terms of ambiance. I love Tarkir, and Kaladesh and Arcavios I did find fun, but it doesn't hold a candle to the sense of wonder and bewilderment I felt when learning about Zendikar when it was first shown.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And yet, when it was first pitched Zendikar was considered a risk. I think you're right, which is a shame for Wizards really. With any luck, Bloomburrow will knock it out of the park and be a return to form... fingers crossed

  • @plaguefellow1499
    @plaguefellow1499 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I find it very very funny that it released right after Hearthstone had their own, very well received, wild west expansion. And not JUST that, a Hearthstone expansion where multiple well liked characters were brought back with a wild west twist too.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh now that IS interesting. I did not know that. Hmmmmmmmm

  • @XmortoxX1990
    @XmortoxX1990 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    while I must admit I had fun in pre-release and the Commander deck, yeah, there's some serious red flags on this set. I hope bloomburrow gets better.
    P.S I do feel the missed potantil of Thunder Jucntion. I hope this messy set sell good enough to warrant another trip to the plane... Please bring block sets back!

    • @Shark_Byte_
      @Shark_Byte_ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I really like some of the flavor of this set, the Eversaloon is goofy and I love it. A wandering Temporal rest stop for cowboys? Amazing
      I know Akul isn't "native" to the plane but I love scorpion dragon guy that's really cool. The cactus folk are super cute too I wish to see more of them

    • @XmortoxX1990
      @XmortoxX1990 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @Shark_Byte_ This plane would've benefited greatly with a second set. It would give more room to explore plane, their locations, and characters

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @XmortoxX1990 I feel like I'm typing "They should bring back 3 set blocks" a lot lately haha

    • @yurisei6732
      @yurisei6732 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RedBobcatGames At this point, 3 set blocks would be suicide for WOTC because 3 set blocks depend upon solid worldbuilding and mechanical design. Imagine if Thunder Junction was just set 1 and we knew we were getting two more sets of this. How dreadful would that be? The saving grace recently has been that when WOTC releases a stupid set, you at least know we'll soon be moving on.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @yurisei6732 I mean, with any luck it would FORCE THEM to put more effort into world building. But you're not wrong

  • @pe-ka1844
    @pe-ka1844 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    it's so wotc gets to sell you the cards again, now with correct rules text ; )

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ... you know what? I actually think there's a chance you're right

    • @gatesofnocturne3700
      @gatesofnocturne3700 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@RedBobcatGames The Dragon Ball Card game actually does "errata packs" or something with successfully errata'd cards only. Seems sketchy but it pushes the secondary market price down pretty heavily so i dunno if it's a big problem.
      (Also DBS is translated from japanese and is much more prone to errors because of that)

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh that's cool. I wish Magic would do something like that. Even as Secret Lairs. I bet they'd sell

    • @pe-ka1844
      @pe-ka1844 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@RedBobcatGames oh god, the arena errata version of oko would be only available for a limited time

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, maybe Secret Lair isn't the way to go then actually...

  • @walvens3080
    @walvens3080 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    To be honest my interpretation of that bit with Gisa was that the random other person was lying to avoid angering Gisa

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, perhaps. But honestly looking at the Magic lore as a whole lately and I fear that'd be giving WotC too much credit

  • @leovalenzuela8368
    @leovalenzuela8368 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think you are very correct and I’m thrilled someone put my feelings into words so articulately. Thank you.

    • @RedBobcatGames
      @RedBobcatGames  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Oh well thank you very much