If you fuck up your testing, I trust you will make it right with a correction. If LTT fuck up I do not trust them to even care. Overall your quality is miles ahead of them, keep it up HUB you guys are great!
More like the only ones in the entire review space with these results and both colluded to pressure AMD into lowering prices. I think there will be better results after the new motherboards and Windows updates are straightened out. It's a good thing AMD is delaying x3d because all those improvements will be baked in.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oq HUB has already benchmarked the new Windows updates and it's not helping Ryzen 9000's comparison to Ryzen 7000. 9800X saw an 11% uplift with the update... *BUT* 7800X saw a 10% uplift with the update. Leaving the 9800X only 1% faster than the 7800X, meaning the 9800X still is not worth it for gamers. This still isn't the "gaming leadership" AMD promised in their marketing material.
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong. For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
@@terminasitor769 Exactly, like that water block prototype fiasco that the community forced them to make right and I have to say that was so scummy of Linus that I unsubbed over that.
LTT has always had issues with their benchmarking results. They’re more of a business than independent journalists though, they are more about making money than benchmark accuracy.
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong. For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
@@nimrodery straight up posting wrong numbers maybe...look if they tested this games with a specific and identical hardware configuration for zen4 and zen5 and got this numbers...ok, maybe the games where a good match for this new cpu´s. it would be way worth if they straight up downplayed the zen4 performance by using lower spec ram or such things and then prestent zen5 in a way better light...same as HUB downplays the performance gain for rocket league, saying that you dont need that kind of performance in this game to "just play a ball" but in reality this games input is dependend on the frames you get. for example if you press jump but your frame allready started rendering, you dont get the input recognized until the next frame. if you release the jump button in the meantime, your input doesnt get recognized at all and this is true for all inputs in this game
Yeah I know Linus claimed that they were going to "change their ways" just before their one week hiatus, but it's clear that hasn't changed anything. I've still seen them mention in videos that the video is ending because that's all the time they allocated for it or they don't feel like having someone work on that project any longer to make it better. It really does seem that one week hiatus was purely to take control of the controversy at the time and let it pass.
@@georgwarhead2801 no no , this is a LTT hate bandwagon , so hate or shut up 😂nah but fr people are so mad at them that they twist facts to fit their narrative
@@georgwarhead2801well while I trust Linus to be in good faith, and he wasn't actually wrong (they said "basically same performance but way less Power, that's good"), Tom's Hardware is basically a fake review site using the mask of a good site. I prefer HUB and GN outlook, but I can see why LTT said what they did
@@georgwarhead2801 LTT doesn't have a monopoly on incorrect results, you know. Tom's Hardware has also been called out in the past. As an example, their test mehodology doesn't use XMP in baseline and they turn it on with their OC testing, so their suspiciously high PBO results for Zen 5 actually includes the XMP boost.
The answer is easy, LTT is just for entertainment. If you want serious information, you watch HUB, GN and others. Yes, Linus is "the biggest" , but that's bc he found out how YT and people work and how he can make money with his show. Just testing 4 Games and with in-game Benchmarks talks for itself.
Yep,just like jay2cent thermal test is one or two round of cinebench without warming the cooler , click bait video ，but he got large viewer count While GN making accurate and informative video they didn't have that much subs and viewer count . People these days like fast food
@@frankwong9486 Yeah I'll be honest, Jay is pretty bad about benchmarking as well. He basically only tests with less than 5 games. I honestly wonder how he gets such high views for his benchmarks that are so scant.
Since when did they have credibility? Even way before the GN stuff I never trusted their reviews, you don't need to be a genius to understand that the biggest media are the shills. In fact it's always LTT and Tom's Hardware.
LTT stopped being an actual tech review channel long time ago now it's just dumb wacky tech stuff for casual watchers. Last time I watched any of their reviews and their videos in general was the 3080ti one and that was a disaster lol. Anyways as I said they stopped being an actual review channel so they should stop pretending to be one and just stop publishing reviews at this point. For context linus praised 3080ti for biringing like %2-%3 performance increase and 2 gb more vram at the cost of like 400-500$ extra can't remember exactly lol.
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong. For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
Their big mistake was constructing a lab for the image of respectability, then continued making quick, entertainment focused content. When they didn't pretend to be anything other than tech cheerleaders it was a bit easier to stomach.
I still remember when I pressed Unsubscribe on LTT... It was a Threadripper review. AMD had provided the processors and other needed materials for benchmarking, so they didn't bake in sponsor spots. But that still didn't stop Linus from standing up partway through the review and giving himself a wedgie to shill his massively overpriced 2 pack of boxer shorts for $50. That was when I'd finally had enough. I remember hearing about the 3080Ti stuff after he decided to attack other reviewers on the WAN Show because his audience was mad at him for his review. Then other reviewers responded on their channels to have to defend themselves from angry LTT fanboys who were now in attack mode because of said WAN Show. That's another thing that really went to crap. WAN Show used to be cool, now it's just Linus creating drama by defending himself and deflecting and attacking better reviewers while Luke just kinda sits there uncomfortably not wanting to challenge the boss even though he knows Linus is wrong. Blink out the morse code for SOS if you need us to help you escape, Luke.
Considering everything I've seen and heard about zen 5, ltt is in the wrong here big time. Testing 4 games, really? I mean at this point why does anyone watch their channel. They're not a benchmarking channel, what they are is a company that likes to glaze new stuff...
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong. For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
I mean the Ryzen 5000 reviews were really great, it just feels like they were way more precise and professional earlier and now it's more of a media / enjoying platform. I'm sad because it would be so cool if they would do both. Insane benchmarks with alot of precise information AND funny stuff.
@@FeartheBoxes I would say their issues go back a bit farther than that. It's clear LTT treats the videos as a business over journalism. They have had some really sketchy reliability and even after their hiatus they still have said in multiple videos how they're ending a video before looking at all the details or because they're "out of time". I think it really says a lot with how much praise he always gives to Mr Beast. Mr Beast really turned youtube from a place people make content for fun to a business about being as big as you can for the sake of as much attention as possible. Like how Jimmy openly brags about testing out thumbnails or their titles for clickbate.
LMG has become just advertiser for companies and entertainment channel. They abandoned quality data long time ago .. now its just sponsored BS and false information all the time.
They are not. As a former game dev and someone that actually made games for a living their benchmarks introduce a lot of variability since a lot of games are vere procedural and rely heavily on random seeds. Meaning you can be walking in the same scene and have huge variance but since they do not include variance numbers we have no clue. The amount of variance will be different game to game and engine to engine.
@@MaheerKibria Feel free to enlighten us as to who provides more accurate benchmarking and their methodology. As it stands, I'll take the average of several passes of actual gameplay (what HUB does) over most in-game benchmarks, especially for CPU reviews. We understand that there can be a great degree of variance from run to run, and that's precisely why HUB performs several of them, as opposed to using in-game tools that don't always paint a complete picture of CPU performance regardless of how many times they're run simply because they're not designed to stress the CPU enough.
Like, others have gotten similar results to LTT. I feel it can be chocked to variances in testing methodology across the board bwtweej reviewrs and inconsistency regarding windows states
I count on your reviews and numbers 10 out of 10 times! You guys have been influencing my hardware and monitor purchases for years and never steered me wrong.
yeah I've acted like the Linus Media Group doesn't exist after they talked shit about other content creators for being more accurate/diligent in their testing practices. They lost all good-will when they began to act "high and mighty" and then hired a financial expert to run their tech company who has proven that he loves pushing half-assed clickbait content. I used to suggest LTT to PC newbies for help on builds, configurations, and general helpful computer knowledge with a few unexpected gems mixed in with the others. I no longer do that because al of their channels feel like they only cover sponsored content, and their marketing/advertising tactics always bleed into the scripting of their videos.
@@Gimpy17 I also unfollowed all their channels and avoided them after all they were exposed for, and how poorly they (especially Linus) reacted to it. What I don't understand is that until now there's so many people trusting them, so many followers, viewers. And yet it seems they still operate the exact same way, which I suspected would happen.
when it comes to benchmarking, LTT is like the kid in chemistry class that doesn't wash hands, doesn't wear gloves, doesn't double check the amount of ingredients, but gives a flashy presentation that oozes "confidence sells" energy
So, have you considered there may be another variable here? Perhaps core parking is causing issues or another step in the official testing is actually hurting performance. Because quite a few places show a way bigger difference between them than your testing.
Level1Techs, Buildzoid, and TechTechPotato for the really technical stuff, Steve and Steve for trustworthy benchmarks, J2C for watercooling and goofy builds, LTT only qualifies as entertainment. The problem is everyone on that list knows exactly what their specialty is _except_ for LTT.
I mean you can't say Jake doesn't know what he's doing, but other than him and Dan - everyone's just bullcrap over there. and it's all just goofy entertainment and webshop promo.
@@inkredebilchina9699 Jake knows what he's doing, but he's not part of the review team is he? There's competent people there of course, but the ego is off the charts. Even in their pathetic "I'm sorry" video, they _STILL_ couldn't apologize to GN or HUB for what was said. Not even a heartless corporate "The statements of this employee do not represent the opinion of the company"? And to this day they still haven't apologized. That's not an oversight. That tells me they really DO think they're better than everyone else and that's when I unsubbed from every channel.
@@zodwraith5745 all I said is Jake and Dan of the publicaly known people are actually doing something right there. everyone else is "yes sir Linus, whatever you say Linus". i agree with you my guy. hence why I upvoted your comment. 😎 but thank you for taking the time to reply to me. makes me feel seen in a nice way. ☺️
@@inkredebilchina9699 LOL. Yeah it sucks cause I like Jake, but even worse it seems like he's the glue holding everything together. Pretty much every video is "Hey guys we're gonna be covering XYZ today! Now let's go check in on Jake because he did the 3 days of work to get it all set up so I can roll in at noon after badminton to shoot the video! Boy I sure do work hard!" That doesn't make Jake look good, it makes LTT look bad when it seems like _everything_ technical has to be handled by Jake. While dan _absolutely_ seems terrified of Linus. You can tell MOST people are when he decides to stroll through the offices. No one's cracking jokes, no one's comfortable, they all look like deer in the headlights so it really make you wonder what it's like when the cameras are off, because they always look like that _before_ they realize the camera is there.
@@zodwraith5745 indeed you are right. the one person not afraid to tell Linus to eff off is Jake. because he needs him to keep everything running. the toxicity of LTT media group is feasible trough the screen. and as you mentioned earlier the lack of apology to GN is very brazen coming from someone that i clearly not sorry for anything. the other day I saw Colin telling Linus his stuff is way overpriced to which he replied "I'm poor". if stuff like that finds it's way to publicaly available video, you can only imagine what shitshow goes off screen.
this is interesting from an actual educational Stand-point, how are the Automated Benchmarks different from regular Benchmarks that would lead to such vastly different results
I believe they also have the same kinds of predators working at LTT as Beast does. When are people going to learn that all these people they put on pedestals, all these large channels, are pieces of 💩 when the camera is off, and even on sometimes.
HUB all the way! LTT have come out way too many times apologizing for taking/making money over accuracy of claims or results. Its clear they just want money and to do everything over the top. No longer about giving to the community.
? except that they have labs which they basically run at a big loss to provide valuable data to the pc building community... but sure , hate without providing basic info its way better
LTT is a tech vlog channel that hasn't produced reliable benchmarks in years. Theyre the outliers so they should be the ones explaining why their benchmarks are messed up. But they're not reputable enough to do that. They're too profit driven to take the time to verify results. Thats not the point of the channel anyway. They're an entertainment company. Fact that this came from "labs" is the real problem. Thats just misleading and thats not hyperbolic because they haven't produced reliable results in a long long time. They have constant mistakes and are frequently outliers.
What about Motherboards? A few years ago they found more power being pumped through some motherboards than others achieving better results for Intel CPUs? Motherboard settings and BIOs?
Thank you for the nice follow up. Transperancy is a good thing for discussion. Do HUB plan on applying statistical methods to reduce the effect of outliers like ACC?
@@rgee It's the same on GN's comment section. People (well, the viewers) need to slow down a lil bit. I like how Wendell called it 'tribalism', it really is.
As many orher have said, ltt have taken the step over to entertainment and casual viewers, thats where the money are and i cant blame them for it. On the other hand they mislead a ton of people by doing stuff like this and that is not okay. They are no longer a source of information to the public, they are nothing but entertainment now and thats the only reason people should watch them, or dont watch them at all. My most personal opinion and i have stopped watching them completly becuse of the reasons above, full stop. I do not want more people to be misled by them
I hope that their secret shoppers are real, at least. Anyways, it's not true that they don't provide useful information, you just cannot trust them when the interests of big players like Nvidia, intel and AMD are on the line.
@@AgagaSnsns I wouldn't trust their secret shoppers either. If they're testing a big player like HP or Dell, they have incentive to make them look good because they still want to receive free laptops for "review" Gamers Nexus is doing a much better job on the "secret shop prebuilts" front.
LTT and HUB are not the only reviewers in this ecosystem. It should not be too hard to look at other reviews as well and see if they lean closer to HUB's results, or LTT's.
The AMD guy who did the podcast made the excuse of running secret admin level because that's what the automated benchmarking tools required to run. Therefore if true, LTT may have been in admin status as well?
@@hubclipschannel But was it explictly stated by AMD or LTT that they ran current comparisons on the exact same conditions? I know you guys re-run everything, but AMD should be checked for any blind spots they might spin.
@@douglasmurphy3266 It doesn't quite explain their numbers, LTT has the 9700X tied in 1st place for gaming when the 7800X should have had a similar performance boost in admin mode.
@@douglasmurphy3266 HUB already checked AMD. They benchmarked the 7800X and the 9800X with the updates. The result? 7800X is 10% faster, 9800X is 11% faster. In other words, 9800X is only 1% faster than 7800X, still a giant nothing burger for gaming and far from the "gaming leadership" AMD promised.
I dont think anyone that knows the review scene well, will know that LTT isnt ever to be taken seriously. LTT is an entertainment channel in the tech sphere, they dont care about things like accuracy or even conflict of interest.
The top of the pyramid of comparisons and benchmark analysis is formed: HUB & GN. LTT is somewhere in the middle of the pyramid, hidden, lost in time. Congratulations and thank you for your commitment.
For serious content especially buying guide I definitely stopped considering LTT a guide for sometime now...quite ridiculous the resources invested by Linus into what was supposed to be the hallmark of benchmarks in their "labs" extension to be quite a joke... For goofy outlandish content they can still be entertaining at times...but that can fade away quite quickly the more the age group rises.
Seems like I saw one review where the reviewer was excited about uplift in certain types of instruction sets, but they were workstation tasks. I could be remembering wrong, but it seemed like that particular reviewer was excited for things that wouldn't affect gaming at all (or it would be minimal benefit). As a result, I'm not surprised that someone is finding little uplift in most gaming performance. If something is off with your testing, I'm sure it will come to light over time with the way you examine your results/methods.
If I recall correctly LTT also created a test suite similar to AMD with automated benchmarking software. This means they ran as full Administrator from the get go.
Wouldn't explain much as HUB showed that all AMD chips scaled evenly with admin mode. It was AMD just muddying the waters to push the topic to the side till the Windows patch came out.
The discrepancy can be W11 24H2. The preview came with Memory integrity off (which sadly HU didn't notice and published a bogus results video) and with branch prediction optimizations. If somebody turned memory inegrity back on to keep apples to apple, others didn't or didnt use 24H2, you are looking at anywhere from 5% to 20% difference.
Don't worry guys a lot of know how bad LTT is for reliable PC tech info & reviews, the way Linus was so positive about Ryzen 9600X / 9700X performance during his review was just absurd & laughable.
Ltt is widely known for always being accurate and not worried about matching manufacturers specs. Can you read the Sarcasm in my voice? Was ltt given golden samples or did they get extremely lucky with the silicone lottery? Idk im trying to be generous towards them. They probably messed up a setting ' again' 'again'.
Could have something like 'always ignore' button, and I'd use it on you two first. To be honest, when 'NVIDIA thing' happened, I was with you with whole of my heart, supporting. Now, however, mass-incompetence and money-grabbing policies you are using makes me ban you. Start with false, hawkish advertising - Hub vs. LTT? I would expect that there is a couple of arguments from LTT, instead you reading from a mobile phone some percentage. Really? Couldn't you, at least, make a graph? No, let's make standard 10:00+ minutes video with icon with way to high facial expressions - that's what it goes, right? Secondly - I have no strong opinion on Zen 5, it wouldn't be the first CPU or GPU that launched poorly and get fixed or unexpectedly well fixed. Of course, it wouldn't be the first to remain bad - we (or I, at least) remember quite clearly Intel Core2 'generation' with 100Mhz clock and 2-5% actual speed increase - to be 'balanced'. AMD bulldozer steamroller piledriver which probably had better increasing rate, but were really crappy to begin with. Thirdly - another day, another dollar! Ok, that happen - processor that didn't live up to expectations, measured in apple to oranges manner, from most testers. Here I think about 7700X3D to 9700X, the latter lacks a huge portion of hardware. Yet, by the clock, you fabricate this garbage tests and articles each day, then again from the beginning. Expecting the NVIDIA-like reactions from AMD, perhaps? I'm so glad you get none. Lastly - lack of fundamental knowledge. Not sorry to say that. Linus forgot more than your duo and whole team ever knew. And I don't follow Linus anymore - bit too arrogant, bit uninteresting topic for me (30,000$ TV, thank you). Still, I'm into this game - observer, mainly - though I did some testing long time ago - from before you were born. Probably, that I can't be sure... And you lack a lot of fundamental knowledge how stuff do, and then tell it wrong or release useless article - not talking about Zen 5, I mainly think you lack knowledge about GPU, rasterization, ray-tracing, that really stupid upscaling techniques (all of them) and presenting deformed and wrong processed signal based on... your bloody opinion. No rational mathematical or organoleptic testing performed, many signal deformation you 'turn off and on' (great thinking!) - basically, yellow papers of industry. So, I deeply doubt that you care about what you're doing, even the things you know are wrong - the new channel, the subscribers number goes up... Why caring about what anything except subscribers? Why not sending invitation to LTT to compare results or demonstrate difference or perhaps you're right? That would be the right decision... Though there are arrogance problems I've mention... But, then again, if Linus so good then Linus doesn't facing you two, right?
Idgaf who's right. In any case Zen 5 WILL age like fine wine. That's always been the case with AMD. And really everytime all the reviewers bash everything at launch, even though AMD deserves it. After some baking with time, the same reviewers start to recommend the same parts they bashed. It has happened with many 5000 series, 7000 series CPU, it will happen with 9000 series CPU too. Same wuth AMD's 6000 series GPU. Amd just operates that way in the long term.
Regardless of LTT's credibility, it is a little early to say whether or more Zen5 as a whole is bad for gaming, when the gaming-focused CPUs have yet to release
Since linus himself said we shouldn't take LTT seriously, i stopped taking them seriously and haven't watched a single LTT video for months now. I watch reviews because my money doesn't fall from the sky and i have to work for every penny. I want honest and trustworthy reviews on things* i want to spend hundreds of dollars on.
@hubclipschannel What about cpu bench in 3dmark? It also shows ram overclocking difference. Maybe you could consider to add it to list of tests??? I like all your work. For more than 3 years ago LTT start looking like huge media orientated channel instead of being technical channel. I mean LTT become more casual and you stay hardcore tech channel. Please continue bringing us a great content!!!
@@IMJGray I also noticed that and it looks like the focus is set to around the GN mat/their hands. A bit short of their faces. Could be an auto focus shenanigan.
We've seen Linus responded to "bad" or incorrect data with a shrug and "I couldn't be bothered" or "I got better things to do with my money." They seems to care more about engagement and entertainment more than their accuracy. Go watch that GN video again if you need a reminder. I only trust the Steve(s) of HUB & GN when it comes to benchmarks. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that they're leagues above many other benchmarking channels.
soon as i walk in people want to blame automated testing when ltt said stated they got same results in test as everyone else in regular account with amid mode like everyone else
Loved how the questioned was asked, and the answers given, hat ehow the community makes it a "LTT is just for entertainment" "they can't be trusted" "only reviews you should watch are either GN or HUB" "Linus is just a persona that only cares about making money that made it big because he knows people and how youtube works"
I made the strange decision to change from a Ryzen 9 7950X to a Ryzen 9 9900X - gaming performance is not my only concern but it is certainly very important and I ran my own benchmarks of 15 games with at least 3 runs each for comparison. I must say that I have seen some interesting results and also found out that AMD's suggested core parking on the 9900X does it more harm than good in newer titles, with Baldur's Gate 3 and my run on the bridge towards the Lower City from Rivington being a great example. Here are my results for that one: Ryzen 9 7950X Avg: 98.7 1%: 68.9 0.1%: 43.0 Ryzen 9 9900X (AMD recommended settings) Avg: 95.6 1%: 66.3 0.1%: 39.4 Ryzen 9 9900X (No PPM provisioning driver) Avg: 112.6 1%: 72.9 0.1%: 42.9 This is not the only game seeing measurable gains - Warcraft III (a 2002 game, lol) and my heavily modded Skyrim are both seeing 10% or higher gains. I am also seeing the cases in which there are no or minimal gains (Dragon's Dogma 2 for instance). I plan to share my full findings this week.
LTT has been called out on their Labs “testing” before, so it stands to reason that if they are one of the outliers, then their testing is still flawed. Unless they can somehow prove otherwise, this is my view. Granted, I haven’t watched them since the fiasco last year, and while I was tempted to start again, this makes me question that.
Even before LTT got into the beef with GN and HUB, I had already noticed problematic data in their testing and rarely watched them. I no longer watch their videos since the drama blew up. Them selling the monoblock after not testing it properly was the last straw.
CPU binning can bring some sizable swings to results. Having a poorly binned 7700X and a really good 9700X could lead to a big difference. Always look at multiple sources. The LTT result for Returnal is incredibly suspect however. I'd be willing to wager LTT flubbed.
Lets not jump on the "this techtuber or that techtuber was wrong" bandwagon people. Firstly, Windows has shown itself to be funky as all hell lately, Also, some channels still use ultra graphics settings for CPU benchmarks, which I don't think is right. Doesn't mean anyone is wrong per se, or that I'm right. It's just that it's the way they choose to do things
The thing that I've noticed over the last few years since they've been doing labs: ltt tests seem to lean in favour of the cpu/gpu. I have no idea why. They seem to be the outlier
If you do a negative review, the company might get mad and not send free stuff for the next review. Linus doesn't want to have to pay for stuff and have a late video, so he tries to stay on company good sides. Even when it means he contradicts himself. It's been years but I still remember not taking his phone reviews seriously anymore. Review after review after review he was praising smaller bezels. One Samsung phone had bigger bezels than last year, did Linus criticize it for larger bezels and stay consistent? Heck no, he praised the larger bezels for increasing usability. Then the next phone review after that, phone with small bezels, he loves small bezels again. There's no consistency, there's no room to criticize something, there's only "how do I make this product sound good so the company will send me the next one for free as well?"
@mjc0961 very true, I do think this is part of the reason. Which is also why I haven't taken their reviews seriously for a long time. They are entertainment, and GN and HUB are the real reviewers
Been watching HUB and LTT for years (and GN). LTT has gone off on a tangent and I no longer follow. I trust Steve and his testing methods and I think 4 games is way too small of a sample to bench a rating for a CPU on. I don't blame LTT or HUB on their results I just know I trust Steve (and crew) on HUB and Steve (and crew) on GN.
LTT's not wrong, it's just that there community doesn't right them often. I mainly watch them for entertainment so does most of their viewers. I bought my 7600 after watching every possible review that I could including some obscure ones because I wouldn't be upgrading for at least 5 years, same applies to every other product review. You shouldn't make your decision based on just one review is all that I am saying. Not trying to defend LTT, it's just that, if some of the people who watched their review and bought a 9700x, they wouldn't complain because they are more likely a average person and don't care about the details. They probably wouldn't even notice that a 7700 costs way less and performs similarly.
Gaming performance uplifts on the new chips seems to be minimal, but workload performance and power consumption is much much better. I don't see how this is a loss, people chose Intel when they needed a cpu for gaming and workload tasks but now they have more options.
I am still subbed to LTT and occassionally watch some of their entertaining videos, like wacky pc builds, scrapyard wars, etc, , but over the last couple of years I I stick with HUB, GN and a few others for hardware reviews and avoid any of LTT's I see LTT as an entertainment company that dabbles in hardware reviews rather than the other way around which is how they first started out.
I don't get the weird dogpiling people do on LTT, if hardware unbox gets it right then good. LTT was wrong. If Hardware Unbox suddenly does the same exact thing and steps, then are we gonna dogpile on them? I just want to see CPU results and like a normal person I'd triangulate different sources to see if they're talking about similar enough performance. Why the hell would I waste time hating when I just compare stuff and get over with? Tech entertainment is tech entertainment, perhaps you are into drama and dogpiling over a bunch of content to which that point just watch a reality tv show or something.
chat is full of close minded fanboys who live in a bubble. I have never seen people so hopeful that AMD fails. i guess they wanna pay 200% more for failing intel CPU's
LTT really is just an entertainment channel, no way would I go there anymore for proper tested reviews. Thats not to say I don’t watch their content as I do and I find it entertaining, but reviews and testing HUB, gamers nexus, Derbauer e.t.c is the places to go.
If you fuck up your testing, I trust you will make it right with a correction.
If LTT fuck up I do not trust them to even care.
Overall your quality is miles ahead of them, keep it up HUB you guys are great!
And if Hub continues to fuck up again are they going to be in the same dogpile as LTT?
It's taken Hardware Unboxed 12 videos now to cover Zen5. Seems like they're coping.
Hub will just milk content . That's all what they do . This video is no different and to piggy back of Linus Success
Word.
If LTT messes up, they say that you are wrong.
HUB and GN are the gold standard ✨️
More like the only ones in the entire review space with these results and both colluded to pressure AMD into lowering prices. I think there will be better results after the new motherboards and Windows updates are straightened out. It's a good thing AMD is delaying x3d because all those improvements will be baked in.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oqExcept AMD publicly confirmed these results and the lack of performance uplift.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oq HUB has already benchmarked the new Windows updates and it's not helping Ryzen 9000's comparison to Ryzen 7000.
9800X saw an 11% uplift with the update... *BUT* 7800X saw a 10% uplift with the update. Leaving the 9800X only 1% faster than the 7800X, meaning the 9800X still is not worth it for gamers. This still isn't the "gaming leadership" AMD promised in their marketing material.
Gn cure for insomnia
@@dave6018the DF long forms get me every time 😴
Why would anyone go to LTT for real information.
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong.
For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
@@syncmonism They make corrections and apologize not so much when they get things wrong but more when they are caught and are called out.
@@terminasitor769 Exactly, like that water block prototype fiasco that the community forced them to make right and I have to say that was so scummy of Linus that I unsubbed over that.
If you own Zen 5 you may rely on LTTs results to keep from having buyers remorse
Their intro is good
LTT has always had issues with their benchmarking results. They’re more of a business than independent journalists though, they are more about making money than benchmark accuracy.
yep, despite investing in a lab this has not changed yet. The proof is on youtube for anyone to see.
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong.
For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
@@syncmonism What's a "lot worse" than complete misrepresentation?
@@nimrodery straight up posting wrong numbers maybe...look if they tested this games with a specific and identical hardware configuration for zen4 and zen5 and got this numbers...ok, maybe the games where a good match for this new cpu´s. it would be way worth if they straight up downplayed the zen4 performance by using lower spec ram or such things and then prestent zen5 in a way better light...same as HUB downplays the performance gain for rocket league, saying that you dont need that kind of performance in this game to "just play a ball" but in reality this games input is dependend on the frames you get. for example if you press jump but your frame allready started rendering, you dont get the input recognized until the next frame. if you release the jump button in the meantime, your input doesnt get recognized at all and this is true for all inputs in this game
Yeah I know Linus claimed that they were going to "change their ways" just before their one week hiatus, but it's clear that hasn't changed anything. I've still seen them mention in videos that the video is ending because that's all the time they allocated for it or they don't feel like having someone work on that project any longer to make it better.
It really does seem that one week hiatus was purely to take control of the controversy at the time and let it pass.
Based on LTT Labs being incompetent I’d go with they’re wrong
but then also tom´s hardware is wrong about there data. LTT is not the only one getting better results
@@georgwarhead2801 no no , this is a LTT hate bandwagon , so hate or shut up 😂nah but fr people are so mad at them that they twist facts to fit their narrative
@@plopolip01 4 games, with outlier results. not confidence inspiring
@@georgwarhead2801well while I trust Linus to be in good faith, and he wasn't actually wrong (they said "basically same performance but way less Power, that's good"), Tom's Hardware is basically a fake review site using the mask of a good site.
I prefer HUB and GN outlook, but I can see why LTT said what they did
@@georgwarhead2801 LTT doesn't have a monopoly on incorrect results, you know. Tom's Hardware has also been called out in the past. As an example, their test mehodology doesn't use XMP in baseline and they turn it on with their OC testing, so their suspiciously high PBO results for Zen 5 actually includes the XMP boost.
The answer is easy, LTT is just for entertainment. If you want serious information, you watch HUB, GN and others. Yes, Linus is "the biggest" , but that's bc he found out how YT and people work and how he can make money with his show. Just testing 4 Games and with in-game Benchmarks talks for itself.
So for entertainment they give wrong informations
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong.
It's misleading to call that content "review."
Yep,just like jay2cent thermal test is one or two round of cinebench without warming the cooler , click bait video ，but he got large viewer count
While GN making accurate and informative video they didn't have that much subs and viewer count .
People these days like fast food
@@frankwong9486 Yeah I'll be honest, Jay is pretty bad about benchmarking as well. He basically only tests with less than 5 games. I honestly wonder how he gets such high views for his benchmarks that are so scant.
LTT has lost all his credibility. Dont even watch them anymore.
Same
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong.
I like their content for new tech and other sort of stuff, the benchmarks not so much.
Since when did they have credibility? Even way before the GN stuff I never trusted their reviews, you don't need to be a genius to understand that the biggest media are the shills. In fact it's always LTT and Tom's Hardware.
@@syncmonism That's probably their motto now. "We could be a lot worse." Which when explained internally means "let's look for ways to be worse."
LTT stopped being an actual tech review channel long time ago now it's just dumb wacky tech stuff for casual watchers. Last time I watched any of their reviews and their videos in general was the 3080ti one and that was a disaster lol. Anyways as I said they stopped being an actual review channel so they should stop pretending to be one and just stop publishing reviews at this point.
For context linus praised 3080ti for biringing like %2-%3 performance increase and 2 gb more vram at the cost of like 400-500$ extra can't remember exactly lol.
That's exactly when I realized that their reviews were not to be trusted. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one.
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong.
For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
Their big mistake was constructing a lab for the image of respectability, then continued making quick, entertainment focused content. When they didn't pretend to be anything other than tech cheerleaders it was a bit easier to stomach.
@@syncmonism thing is they didn’t until they were strong armed into it.
I still remember when I pressed Unsubscribe on LTT... It was a Threadripper review. AMD had provided the processors and other needed materials for benchmarking, so they didn't bake in sponsor spots. But that still didn't stop Linus from standing up partway through the review and giving himself a wedgie to shill his massively overpriced 2 pack of boxer shorts for $50. That was when I'd finally had enough.
I remember hearing about the 3080Ti stuff after he decided to attack other reviewers on the WAN Show because his audience was mad at him for his review. Then other reviewers responded on their channels to have to defend themselves from angry LTT fanboys who were now in attack mode because of said WAN Show. That's another thing that really went to crap. WAN Show used to be cool, now it's just Linus creating drama by defending himself and deflecting and attacking better reviewers while Luke just kinda sits there uncomfortably not wanting to challenge the boss even though he knows Linus is wrong. Blink out the morse code for SOS if you need us to help you escape, Luke.
LTT's been in the gutter in trust department for awhile now
hub and gn are the only steves i steve - steven steved
Thanks Steve
Back to you Steve
Do you leave room for Stephen, or is that going too far?
Linus will only re-test if it costs less than $500.
Considering everything I've seen and heard about zen 5, ltt is in the wrong here big time. Testing 4 games, really? I mean at this point why does anyone watch their channel. They're not a benchmarking channel, what they are is a company that likes to glaze new stuff...
They could be a lot worse. A lot of their content is good, and they do tend to make corrections and apologize if/when they get things wrong.
For most people, Zen 4 is definitely going to provide better value, and LTT's review did seem overly soft on Zen 5, but Zen 5 is a good architecture for a lot of applications, with even some games being 15% faster. The architecture has more changes and new features over previous generations since Zen 1, and sometimes it takes a lot of time before a lot of software is well optimized for new architectural features.
I mean the Ryzen 5000 reviews were really great, it just feels like they were way more precise and professional earlier and now it's more of a media / enjoying platform. I'm sad because it would be so cool if they would do both. Insane benchmarks with alot of precise information AND funny stuff.
@@FeartheBoxes I would say their issues go back a bit farther than that. It's clear LTT treats the videos as a business over journalism. They have had some really sketchy reliability and even after their hiatus they still have said in multiple videos how they're ending a video before looking at all the details or because they're "out of time".
I think it really says a lot with how much praise he always gives to Mr Beast. Mr Beast really turned youtube from a place people make content for fun to a business about being as big as you can for the sake of as much attention as possible. Like how Jimmy openly brags about testing out thumbnails or their titles for clickbate.
They're more enter/infotainment.
LMG has become just advertiser for companies and entertainment channel. They abandoned quality data long time ago .. now its just sponsored BS and false information all the time.
Dear HUB folks, we don't even care about LTT. For gaming benchmarks, you are the golden standard.
Gamer Nexus good too. The two channels I look to first for anything
@@BigGreyDonut Of course. Steve together strong 💪🏻
They are not. As a former game dev and someone that actually made games for a living their benchmarks introduce a lot of variability since a lot of games are vere procedural and rely heavily on random seeds. Meaning you can be walking in the same scene and have huge variance but since they do not include variance numbers we have no clue. The amount of variance will be different game to game and engine to engine.
@@MaheerKibria Feel free to enlighten us as to who provides more accurate benchmarking and their methodology. As it stands, I'll take the average of several passes of actual gameplay (what HUB does) over most in-game benchmarks, especially for CPU reviews. We understand that there can be a great degree of variance from run to run, and that's precisely why HUB performs several of them, as opposed to using in-game tools that don't always paint a complete picture of CPU performance regardless of how many times they're run simply because they're not designed to stress the CPU enough.
Like, others have gotten similar results to LTT. I feel it can be chocked to variances in testing methodology across the board bwtweej reviewrs and inconsistency regarding windows states
who did? when? there's literally two dudes with the sameish results and they both were mentioned at the start of this video.
People still watch LTT?
Who?
I stopped watching LTT after the fourth "I'm sorry, we need to do better." speech.
LTT is a pathetic joke...(always was)
Sadly. The ones who stayed subscribed to Linus apparently doesn't care enough about Linus's mistake.
yes
I count on your reviews and numbers 10 out of 10 times! You guys have been influencing my hardware and monitor purchases for years and never steered me wrong.
LTT is a great example of what can happen when you get so big that you think you can post anything and people will just lap it up.
Did I dream that LTT was already exposed for their questionable methodology?
but this time its not just LTT that gets higher numbers
@@georgwarhead2801 Yeah it was a single other team that was also still lower than LTT's and both only tested 4 games.
I had the dream too, it's a glitch in the matrix 😳.. Find a payphone quick
yeah I've acted like the Linus Media Group doesn't exist after they talked shit about other content creators for being more accurate/diligent in their testing practices. They lost all good-will when they began to act "high and mighty" and then hired a financial expert to run their tech company who has proven that he loves pushing half-assed clickbait content. I used to suggest LTT to PC newbies for help on builds, configurations, and general helpful computer knowledge with a few unexpected gems mixed in with the others. I no longer do that because al of their channels feel like they only cover sponsored content, and their marketing/advertising tactics always bleed into the scripting of their videos.
@@Gimpy17 I also unfollowed all their channels and avoided them after all they were exposed for, and how poorly they (especially Linus) reacted to it. What I don't understand is that until now there's so many people trusting them, so many followers, viewers. And yet it seems they still operate the exact same way, which I suspected would happen.
Havent had confidence in LTT for ages now. Versus you or other Steve, I know who actually puts in the effort needed for proper testing standards.
when it comes to benchmarking, LTT is like the kid in chemistry class that doesn't wash hands, doesn't wear gloves, doesn't double check the amount of ingredients, but gives a flashy presentation that oozes "confidence sells" energy
they're the kid whose father bought them all the fancy expensive gear but they don't know how to use any of it
So, have you considered there may be another variable here? Perhaps core parking is causing issues or another step in the official testing is actually hurting performance. Because quite a few places show a way bigger difference between them than your testing.
I have been waiting for this video. I will have to watch it later.
Level1Techs, Buildzoid, and TechTechPotato for the really technical stuff, Steve and Steve for trustworthy benchmarks, J2C for watercooling and goofy builds, LTT only qualifies as entertainment. The problem is everyone on that list knows exactly what their specialty is _except_ for LTT.
I mean you can't say Jake doesn't know what he's doing, but other than him and Dan - everyone's just bullcrap over there. and it's all just goofy entertainment and webshop promo.
@@inkredebilchina9699 Jake knows what he's doing, but he's not part of the review team is he? There's competent people there of course, but the ego is off the charts.
Even in their pathetic "I'm sorry" video, they _STILL_ couldn't apologize to GN or HUB for what was said. Not even a heartless corporate "The statements of this employee do not represent the opinion of the company"? And to this day they still haven't apologized. That's not an oversight. That tells me they really DO think they're better than everyone else and that's when I unsubbed from every channel.
@@zodwraith5745 all I said is Jake and Dan of the publicaly known people are actually doing something right there. everyone else is "yes sir Linus, whatever you say Linus".
i agree with you my guy. hence why I upvoted your comment. 😎
but thank you for taking the time to reply to me. makes me feel seen in a nice way. ☺️
@@inkredebilchina9699 LOL. Yeah it sucks cause I like Jake, but even worse it seems like he's the glue holding everything together. Pretty much every video is "Hey guys we're gonna be covering XYZ today! Now let's go check in on Jake because he did the 3 days of work to get it all set up so I can roll in at noon after badminton to shoot the video! Boy I sure do work hard!" That doesn't make Jake look good, it makes LTT look bad when it seems like _everything_ technical has to be handled by Jake.
While dan _absolutely_ seems terrified of Linus. You can tell MOST people are when he decides to stroll through the offices. No one's cracking jokes, no one's comfortable, they all look like deer in the headlights so it really make you wonder what it's like when the cameras are off, because they always look like that _before_ they realize the camera is there.
@@zodwraith5745 indeed you are right. the one person not afraid to tell Linus to eff off is Jake. because he needs him to keep everything running. the toxicity of LTT media group is feasible trough the screen. and as you mentioned earlier the lack of apology to GN is very brazen coming from someone that i clearly not sorry for anything. the other day I saw Colin telling Linus his stuff is way overpriced to which he replied "I'm poor". if stuff like that finds it's way to publicaly available video, you can only imagine what shitshow goes off screen.
this is interesting from an actual educational Stand-point, how are the Automated Benchmarks different from regular Benchmarks that would lead to such vastly different results
Nah ltt made a mistake with their test like they always do, either wrong data recorded or wrong settings, it's clearly an outlier
@@LOLBTLOLBT call it whatever you want to make your fanboyism happy.
I still want to know how such difference even happens
LTT is the mr beast of techtubers. most popular, at all costs.
In fact he has actively praised Mr Beast's style and openly discussed similar ideas they share in the WAN show.
I just had this thought as I started the video..
@@Skylancer727 that makes perfect sense!
I believe they also have the same kinds of predators working at LTT as Beast does.
When are people going to learn that all these people they put on pedestals, all these large channels, are pieces of 💩 when the camera is off, and even on sometimes.
As a merch seller first and foremost, I'd always assume LTT is wrong and you guys are right.
one reviewer is paid by AMD, the other one is not, there is the performance difference :-)
i don't think this has anything to do with it. I think they just F it up.
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence".
@@isakh8565 issue is they’ve been caught giving recommendations to companies who sponsor them to the point of outright lying.
@@isakh8565 yeah, exactly
HUB all the way!
LTT have come out way too many times apologizing for taking/making money over accuracy of claims or results. Its clear they just want money and to do everything over the top. No longer about giving to the community.
? except that they have labs which they basically run at a big loss to provide valuable data to the pc building community... but sure , hate without providing basic info its way better
That returnal benchmark looked locked at 60fps?
LTT died a long time ago, no point in resurrecting them tbh.
LTT is a tech vlog channel that hasn't produced reliable benchmarks in years. Theyre the outliers so they should be the ones explaining why their benchmarks are messed up.
But they're not reputable enough to do that. They're too profit driven to take the time to verify results. Thats not the point of the channel anyway. They're an entertainment company.
Fact that this came from "labs" is the real problem. Thats just misleading and thats not hyperbolic because they haven't produced reliable results in a long long time. They have constant mistakes and are frequently outliers.
YUP.
Did you test with latest windows patch that fixes amd cpu bug, it increases performance a lot even on 5k series.
What about Motherboards? A few years ago they found more power being pumped through some motherboards than others achieving better results for Intel CPUs? Motherboard settings and BIOs?
Will you retest 9600x and 9700x with the new BIOS update that raises the TDP to 105 W?
Thank you for the nice follow up. Transperancy is a good thing for discussion.
Do HUB plan on applying statistical methods to reduce the effect of outliers like ACC?
Is LTT running there test suite on admin account?
You mentioned at the start that Tom’s Hardware got numbers in line with LTT so why focus on LTT being wrong? You guys going for round 2?
Do people know Tom' Hardware has been arond for like 20 years
Agreed. So much unnecessary hate in this comment section.
@@rgee It's the same on GN's comment section. People (well, the viewers) need to slow down a lil bit. I like how Wendell called it 'tribalism', it really is.
"AMD $5000 Ultimate Tech Upgrade"
Nuff said
nah. just incompetence.
Could the discrepancy be due to binning?
How many CPU’s do you use during testing?
🇦🇺🤛🏼🤜🏼😎☮️🍀
As many orher have said, ltt have taken the step over to entertainment and casual viewers, thats where the money are and i cant blame them for it. On the other hand they mislead a ton of people by doing stuff like this and that is not okay. They are no longer a source of information to the public, they are nothing but entertainment now and thats the only reason people should watch them, or dont watch them at all. My most personal opinion and i have stopped watching them completly becuse of the reasons above, full stop. I do not want more people to be misled by them
I hope that their secret shoppers are real, at least. Anyways, it's not true that they don't provide useful information, you just cannot trust them when the interests of big players like Nvidia, intel and AMD are on the line.
@@AgagaSnsns I wouldn't trust their secret shoppers either. If they're testing a big player like HP or Dell, they have incentive to make them look good because they still want to receive free laptops for "review"
Gamers Nexus is doing a much better job on the "secret shop prebuilts" front.
LTT and HUB are not the only reviewers in this ecosystem.
It should not be too hard to look at other reviews as well and see if they lean closer to HUB's results, or LTT's.
did you fall asleep in the video?
Gaming Jesus says hi
nearly every single benchmark channel is near identical to HUBs results. maybe 1% higher or lower depnding on the games chosen
Perhaps there is a chip defect issue maybe swap CPU,s with LTT and see what happens?
The AMD guy who did the podcast made the excuse of running secret admin level because that's what the automated benchmarking tools required to run. Therefore if true, LTT may have been in admin status as well?
Doesn't matter all CPUs scale the same.
@@hubclipschannel But was it explictly stated by AMD or LTT that they ran current comparisons on the exact same conditions? I know you guys re-run everything, but AMD should be checked for any blind spots they might spin.
@@douglasmurphy3266 It doesn't quite explain their numbers, LTT has the 9700X tied in 1st place for gaming when the 7800X should have had a similar performance boost in admin mode.
@@douglasmurphy3266 HUB already checked AMD. They benchmarked the 7800X and the 9800X with the updates. The result? 7800X is 10% faster, 9800X is 11% faster. In other words, 9800X is only 1% faster than 7800X, still a giant nothing burger for gaming and far from the "gaming leadership" AMD promised.
@@mjc0961 Maybe something is wrong with HUBs setup, other channels have found a larger discrepancy between them post update.
I think they use the new 24h2 windows patch into consideration and not updating zen 4 baseline.
I dont think anyone that knows the review scene well, will know that LTT isnt ever to be taken seriously. LTT is an entertainment channel in the tech sphere, they dont care about things like accuracy or even conflict of interest.
The top of the pyramid of comparisons and benchmark analysis is formed: HUB & GN. LTT is somewhere in the middle of the pyramid, hidden, lost in time. Congratulations and thank you for your commitment.
Can you add an MMO on your cpu testing? Ff14, WoW or GW2.
By the way, did you also test with high-end AMD graphics, perhaps that makes some difference?
For serious content especially buying guide I definitely stopped considering LTT a guide for sometime now...quite ridiculous the resources invested by Linus into what was supposed to be the hallmark of benchmarks in their "labs" extension to be quite a joke... For goofy outlandish content they can still be entertaining at times...but that can fade away quite quickly the more the age group rises.
All that investment into "labs" so they could benchmark 4 games. 🙄
Seems like I saw one review where the reviewer was excited about uplift in certain types of instruction sets, but they were workstation tasks. I could be remembering wrong, but it seemed like that particular reviewer was excited for things that wouldn't affect gaming at all (or it would be minimal benefit). As a result, I'm not surprised that someone is finding little uplift in most gaming performance. If something is off with your testing, I'm sure it will come to light over time with the way you examine your results/methods.
Small logo position on your shirts still needs some revisiting guys... damn. Armpit unboxing :)
If I recall correctly LTT also created a test suite similar to AMD with automated benchmarking software. This means they ran as full Administrator from the get go.
Wouldn't explain much as HUB showed that all AMD chips scaled evenly with admin mode. It was AMD just muddying the waters to push the topic to the side till the Windows patch came out.
Guys, u still didnt focus camera. Amazing...
I seriously wonder if for returnal they accidentally had dlss on or something
The discrepancy can be W11 24H2. The preview came with Memory integrity off (which sadly HU didn't notice and published a bogus results video) and with branch prediction optimizations.
If somebody turned memory inegrity back on to keep apples to apple, others didn't or didnt use 24H2, you are looking at anywhere from 5% to 20% difference.
Honestly sick of techtuber drama. Unsubbed from LTT a years ago, but beating the same dead horse all this time is so tiring.
If some benchmarks are GPU limited, shouldn't the gap be smaller, rather than bigger zen4 vs zen5??
Thats the issue with HUB 40 game selection. Its all popularly played triple A games that are mostly GPU bound even at 1080p high or ultra settings.
LTT Who?
More like Linus Tit Tips 🤣
Don't worry guys a lot of know how bad LTT is for reliable PC tech info & reviews, the way Linus was so positive about Ryzen 9600X / 9700X performance during his review was just absurd & laughable.
LTT just doesn't care about doing anything right recently. HUB and GN are really good for benchmarks.
I've noticed lately quite a few of the videos are out of focus from hardware unboxed... not really a big deal, just odd i suppose
What are the chances they didn't retest the older cpu, so no new drivers or windows updates, and just went with it in the typical LTT manner.
TBF, LTT has lost all credibility to me a long long time ago.
Ltt is widely known for always being accurate and not worried about matching manufacturers specs. Can you read the Sarcasm in my voice?
Was ltt given golden samples or did they get extremely lucky with the silicone lottery? Idk im trying to be generous towards them. They probably messed up a setting ' again' 'again'.
Try an Asrock motherboard, it seems to give better results with Ryzen 9000 according to other reviews I looked at.
Could have something like 'always ignore' button, and I'd use it on you two first. To be honest, when 'NVIDIA thing' happened, I was with you with whole of my heart, supporting.
Now, however, mass-incompetence and money-grabbing policies you are using makes me ban you.
Start with false, hawkish advertising - Hub vs. LTT? I would expect that there is a couple of arguments from LTT, instead you reading from a mobile phone some percentage. Really? Couldn't you, at least, make a graph? No, let's make standard 10:00+ minutes video with icon with way to high facial expressions - that's what it goes, right?
Secondly - I have no strong opinion on Zen 5, it wouldn't be the first CPU or GPU that launched poorly and get fixed or unexpectedly well fixed. Of course, it wouldn't be the first to remain bad - we (or I, at least) remember quite clearly Intel Core2 'generation' with 100Mhz clock and 2-5% actual speed increase - to be 'balanced'. AMD bulldozer steamroller piledriver which probably had better increasing rate, but were really crappy to begin with.
Thirdly - another day, another dollar! Ok, that happen - processor that didn't live up to expectations, measured in apple to oranges manner, from most testers. Here I think about 7700X3D to 9700X, the latter lacks a huge portion of hardware. Yet, by the clock, you fabricate this garbage tests and articles each day, then again from the beginning. Expecting the NVIDIA-like reactions from AMD, perhaps? I'm so glad you get none.
Lastly - lack of fundamental knowledge. Not sorry to say that. Linus forgot more than your duo and whole team ever knew. And I don't follow Linus anymore - bit too arrogant, bit uninteresting topic for me (30,000$ TV, thank you). Still, I'm into this game - observer, mainly - though I did some testing long time ago - from before you were born. Probably, that I can't be sure... And you lack a lot of fundamental knowledge how stuff do, and then tell it wrong or release useless article - not talking about Zen 5, I mainly think you lack knowledge about GPU, rasterization, ray-tracing, that really stupid upscaling techniques (all of them) and presenting deformed and wrong processed signal based on... your bloody opinion. No rational mathematical or organoleptic testing performed, many signal deformation you 'turn off and on' (great thinking!) - basically, yellow papers of industry.
So, I deeply doubt that you care about what you're doing, even the things you know are wrong - the new channel, the subscribers number goes up... Why caring about what anything except subscribers?
Why not sending invitation to LTT to compare results or demonstrate difference or perhaps you're right? That would be the right decision... Though there are arrogance problems I've mention... But, then again, if Linus so good then Linus doesn't facing you two, right?
Idgaf who's right. In any case Zen 5 WILL age like fine wine. That's always been the case with AMD. And really everytime all the reviewers bash everything at launch, even though AMD deserves it. After some baking with time, the same reviewers start to recommend the same parts they bashed. It has happened with many 5000 series, 7000 series CPU, it will happen with 9000 series CPU too. Same wuth AMD's 6000 series GPU. Amd just operates that way in the long term.
Love to see GN's pad being subtly promoted on HUB.
Regardless of LTT's credibility, it is a little early to say whether or more Zen5 as a whole is bad for gaming, when the gaming-focused CPUs have yet to release
LTT testing on low settings was what got me.
Since linus himself said we shouldn't take LTT seriously, i stopped taking them seriously and haven't watched a single LTT video for months now. I watch reviews because my money doesn't fall from the sky and i have to work for every penny. I want honest and trustworthy reviews on things* i want to spend hundreds of dollars on.
@hubclipschannel What about cpu bench in 3dmark? It also shows ram overclocking difference. Maybe you could consider to add it to list of tests??? I like all your work. For more than 3 years ago LTT start looking like huge media orientated channel instead of being technical channel. I mean LTT become more casual and you stay hardcore tech channel. Please continue bringing us a great content!!!
Is it me or are Tim and Steve's faces out of focus regardless of the resolution?
@@IMJGray I also noticed that and it looks like the focus is set to around the GN mat/their hands. A bit short of their faces. Could be an auto focus shenanigan.
We've seen Linus responded to "bad" or incorrect data with a shrug and "I couldn't be bothered" or "I got better things to do with my money." They seems to care more about engagement and entertainment more than their accuracy. Go watch that GN video again if you need a reminder.
I only trust the Steve(s) of HUB & GN when it comes to benchmarks. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that they're leagues above many other benchmarking channels.
We trust your results. LTT, not so much.
Or at all ....
soon as i walk in people want to blame automated testing when ltt said stated they got same results in test as everyone else in regular account with amid mode like everyone else
I trust your numbers
I love how polite you are in saying LTT is sh1t
Loved how the questioned was asked, and the answers given, hat ehow the community makes it a "LTT is just for entertainment" "they can't be trusted" "only reviews you should watch are either GN or HUB" "Linus is just a persona that only cares about making money that made it big because he knows people and how youtube works"
I made the strange decision to change from a Ryzen 9 7950X to a Ryzen 9 9900X - gaming performance is not my only concern but it is certainly very important and I ran my own benchmarks of 15 games with at least 3 runs each for comparison.
I must say that I have seen some interesting results and also found out that AMD's suggested core parking on the 9900X does it more harm than good in newer titles, with Baldur's Gate 3 and my run on the bridge towards the Lower City from Rivington being a great example. Here are my results for that one:
Ryzen 9 7950X
Avg: 98.7
1%: 68.9
0.1%: 43.0
Ryzen 9 9900X (AMD recommended settings)
Avg: 95.6
1%: 66.3
0.1%: 39.4
Ryzen 9 9900X (No PPM provisioning driver)
Avg: 112.6
1%: 72.9
0.1%: 42.9
This is not the only game seeing measurable gains - Warcraft III (a 2002 game, lol) and my heavily modded Skyrim are both seeing 10% or higher gains. I am also seeing the cases in which there are no or minimal gains (Dragon's Dogma 2 for instance). I plan to share my full findings this week.
So perhaps something with core parking is to blame and is why some channels are seeing bigger gains than others.
LTT has been called out on their Labs “testing” before, so it stands to reason that if they are one of the outliers, then their testing is still flawed. Unless they can somehow prove otherwise, this is my view.
Granted, I haven’t watched them since the fiasco last year, and while I was tempted to start again, this makes me question that.
Even before LTT got into the beef with GN and HUB, I had already noticed problematic data in their testing and rarely watched them. I no longer watch their videos since the drama blew up. Them selling the monoblock after not testing it properly was the last straw.
LTT stands for comedy while HUB stands UP for seriousness. Cheers😏
CPU binning can bring some sizable swings to results. Having a poorly binned 7700X and a really good 9700X could lead to a big difference. Always look at multiple sources. The LTT result for Returnal is incredibly suspect however. I'd be willing to wager LTT flubbed.
95% of the reviewers say that 9700X is weak, 5% say the opposite. The 95% must be wrong
noone is saying it is weak. its simply a cpu optimised for other workloads
For benchmarks and actual data analysis, go for HUB or GN. Watch LTT for the entertaining/fun tech related content and not for benchmarks.
I always have loved how true blue straight down the line you two are.
🇦🇺🤛🏼🤜🏼☮️🍀🍀🍀😎
Lets not jump on the "this techtuber or that techtuber was wrong" bandwagon people. Firstly, Windows has shown itself to be funky as all hell lately, Also, some channels still use ultra graphics settings for CPU benchmarks, which I don't think is right. Doesn't mean anyone is wrong per se, or that I'm right. It's just that it's the way they choose to do things
The thing that I've noticed over the last few years since they've been doing labs: ltt tests seem to lean in favour of the cpu/gpu. I have no idea why. They seem to be the outlier
"Labs"
@@abunk8691 agreed there. I give my trust to the GN and HUB, but I do not trust the numbers LTT are running
@@abunk8691 Labs in LTT does not guarantee knowledge from Linus. 🙃
If you do a negative review, the company might get mad and not send free stuff for the next review. Linus doesn't want to have to pay for stuff and have a late video, so he tries to stay on company good sides. Even when it means he contradicts himself.
It's been years but I still remember not taking his phone reviews seriously anymore. Review after review after review he was praising smaller bezels. One Samsung phone had bigger bezels than last year, did Linus criticize it for larger bezels and stay consistent? Heck no, he praised the larger bezels for increasing usability. Then the next phone review after that, phone with small bezels, he loves small bezels again. There's no consistency, there's no room to criticize something, there's only "how do I make this product sound good so the company will send me the next one for free as well?"
@mjc0961 very true, I do think this is part of the reason. Which is also why I haven't taken their reviews seriously for a long time. They are entertainment, and GN and HUB are the real reviewers
Been watching HUB and LTT for years (and GN). LTT has gone off on a tangent and I no longer follow. I trust Steve and his testing methods and I think 4 games is way too small of a sample to bench a rating for a CPU on. I don't blame LTT or HUB on their results I just know I trust Steve (and crew) on HUB and Steve (and crew) on GN.
LTT say no more I for one no longer trust LLT as actual tech review channel
LTT's not wrong, it's just that there community doesn't right them often. I mainly watch them for entertainment so does most of their viewers. I bought my 7600 after watching every possible review that I could including some obscure ones because I wouldn't be upgrading for at least 5 years, same applies to every other product review. You shouldn't make your decision based on just one review is all that I am saying.
Not trying to defend LTT, it's just that, if some of the people who watched their review and bought a 9700x, they wouldn't complain because they are more likely a average person and don't care about the details. They probably wouldn't even notice that a 7700 costs way less and performs similarly.
Gaming performance uplifts on the new chips seems to be minimal, but workload performance and power consumption is much much better. I don't see how this is a loss, people chose Intel when they needed a cpu for gaming and workload tasks but now they have more options.
Haven't watched a single LTT since and every time TH-cam recommends it I tell them that I don't wanna watch them.
LTT is an 'entertainment' channel. Also Linus has forever put shame on himself by his dishonesty.
I am still subbed to LTT and occassionally watch some of their entertaining videos, like wacky pc builds, scrapyard wars, etc, , but over the last couple of years I I stick with HUB, GN and a few others for hardware reviews and avoid any of LTT's
I see LTT as an entertainment company that dabbles in hardware reviews rather than the other way around which is how they first started out.
I don't get the weird dogpiling people do on LTT, if hardware unbox gets it right then good. LTT was wrong. If Hardware Unbox suddenly does the same exact thing and steps, then are we gonna dogpile on them? I just want to see CPU results and like a normal person I'd triangulate different sources to see if they're talking about similar enough performance. Why the hell would I waste time hating when I just compare stuff and get over with? Tech entertainment is tech entertainment, perhaps you are into drama and dogpiling over a bunch of content to which that point just watch a reality tv show or something.
chat is full of close minded fanboys who live in a bubble. I have never seen people so hopeful that AMD fails. i guess they wanna pay 200% more for failing intel CPU's
Speaking of fanboys in a bubble. How is it in yours? Looking outside of the bubble you barely see any fanboys in these comments.
LTT really is just an entertainment channel, no way would I go there anymore for proper tested reviews.
Thats not to say I don’t watch their content as I do and I find it entertaining, but reviews and testing HUB, gamers nexus, Derbauer e.t.c is the places to go.
24H2 has memory integrity TurnedOFF by default. Turn that ON, the results will be very very close ot that of 23H2 latest build.