Improving My Bambu Lab X1 Carbon... With Cheap Knockoffs!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ค. 2024
- I test more knockoff bambu lab parts to see if it even matters that they’re closed source. This video is brought to you by PCBWay, your one-stop-shop for PCB prototypes and assemblies. Check them out at jle.vi/pcbway
Welcome back to the second part of my video where I test every single one of the clone Bambu Lab parts currently on the market, but more importantly, in this second part of the video, I'm gonna come to my bigger conclusions and also explain what this means for the Bambu Lab ecosystem and if I think this changes everything about their closed source ecosystem.
If you missed the first part of this video, you can click that here: • I Tested Every Bambu L...
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🎥 IN THIS VIDEO: 🎥
00:00 Introduction
00:40 Third-Party Build Plates for Bambu Lab
01:06 Wham Bam's (Glassy) Flexible Build System For Bambu Lab
🛠️ Check it out here: whambamsystems.com/
02:04 Do I Recommend Wham Bam's Glassy Build Plate?
03:23 Double-sided PEI (Black Powder Coated) Board Plate for Bambu Lab X1 or P1P from AliExpress
🛠️ Get it here: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDa...
08:06 Do I Recommend The Black Powder Coated Build Plate from AliExpress?
08:21 Double-sided Flexible PEI (Gold) Build Plate for Bambu Lab X1 from AliExpress
🛠️Get it here: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDF...
11:53 Do I Recommend The Gold Build Plate from AliExpress?
12:27 The Bigger Picture
14:43 What This Means For The "Closed Ecosystem" Of Bambu Lab
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#3dprinting #3dprinted #3dprinter - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I bought a 3D printer to design prototype parts and use as a tool. Bambu Labs x1carbon just works. I don't have time to tweak or tinker with. So yeah Bambu for the win.
That is really the niche that the Bambu X1C does well at. Im a 3d printing enthusiast and instead of buying the X1C I spent more money and probably 60 hours building a voron 2.4. But most people dont have the time to do that other than people who are enthusiasts. Its a great machine but if I needed something for work that just worked its not what I would be looking at. Its like the difference between building a high end gaming PC and buying a prebuilt CAD PC. They both can do the same things but one you just pull out of the box and plug in, the other you spend time and effort buying parts and putting together and while my voron is at the point where it just works it took a lot of time to get there.
@@dangerous8333 so your point is that after tinkering for years and becoming a pro in 3d printing, you can make an Ender 3 reliable? Maybe that is the reason why OP doesn't want to spend years to make a printer work reliably. He just wants the printer to work. He saved time in exchange for spending more money. You spend your time in exchange for cheaper printer.
Let me ask you - do you repair everything in your life? A car, a house, all applianced at home? Do you do your taxes yourself? Or do you, as OP, want to spend your time doing something else other than spending years to know how to fix everything and call a technician? Because if you don't, laughing at him makes you a hypocrit.
I really don't understand why people get laugh at when they want to just buy a car (a printer) and just use it and not become a car mechanics. 🙄
@@dangerous8333 salty dude over here? Some people just don’t like to build a printer themselves if you can get a better printer for the same money.
@@dangerous8333 Of course, I just finished my first voron a couple weeks ago and it took me probably 70 hours in total as far as slicing the parts, assembling the printer, researching tools and materials for the printer, and setup and programming. I am relatively disorganized and had to develop several new skill sets on the fly while assembling the printer. Im sure people could do it in plenty less time even than the quoted 30-40 hours. Especially people with a well organized workspace and experience building vorons. I also did a 4 color voron vs the 2 color standard so I spend probably at least 10-15 of those hours color coordinating and organizing printing based off those colors.
My X1-C was my 6th printer but it was the 1st printer I haven’t had to rebuild almost as soon as I unboxed it. E3 Pro, E3v2, Neptune 2S, Weedo X40, Chiron, & a Dremel 3D45. Besides the Dremel that can’t be modified all of the others are like Glocks, they’re close to trash off the shelf until you replace all hardware. I didn’t know that’s what I was getting myself into TBH. I enjoy it but it’s definitely not for everyone and it’s the very reason NONE of my friends or family are interested in getting into 3D printing.
I have added a few minor community mods to my X1C (Aux fan saver, poop bucket, desiccant containers for the AMS, etc.), but I'm hesitant to mess with the core functionality of the machine. As you said, this thing "just works" pretty much every time. I have had my machine for about 6 months, and I have not had a single print failure in that time.
My favorite mod for the X1C is LED strips on the bottom of the AMS. The light shines down through the top glass into the machine, and the difference is literally night and day. Being able to see well inside the machine is a huge quality of life improvement. I haven't had any issues with LIDAR errors from the extra light.
I am tempted by the replacement hot end with the V6 style nozzles, as changing hot end assemblies to switch between nozzle sizes normally means messing with delicate wires and connectors that seem to me like they should be left alone as much as possible. I would like to be able to swap in a 0.2mm nozzle to print high-detail miniatures, but most likely I'll just dedicate one of my other 3D printers to that instead.
I can understand people's concern around the machine's proprietary nature, but for me the X1C has been a breath of fresh air. I have four other 3D printers besides my X1C, and I have had to put a *lot* of work into each of them to make them reach a level of reliability the X1C has shown right out of the box. In fact, having the X1C has made tinkering with my other machines much more enjoyable, since I have the X1C to fall back on if I need to print any parts quickly for them.
Very well put.
My only issue with the X1C is it's weak bed magnet. Anytime I'm printing ABS, if the part comes withing 25mm of the bed corners, the print will stick fine to the spring steel print surface but the spring steel will pull up off the magnet, resulting in warped prints. This is not an issue with any of my other printers and makes the X1C worthless for ABS unless I reduce hotend temps, increase bed temp and greatly reduce print speeds and even then, it's not guaranteed that a print won't warp. So either I print ABS slower on the X1C than I can print it on my Voron 2.4 or my custom coreXY, or I am only able to use about 200mmx200mm of the X1C's already smaller bed to print ABS slower than I can on my other printers. The other printers may take more fiddling (flow rates and such) and may not print as fast as the X1C is capable of with other filaments but for ABS, my other printers are the better option and I regret purchasing the X1C.
@@Allazander That's interesting, I have printed some ABS parts on my X1C that were almost the full width of the bed and fairly close to both front corners, and I haven't seen an issue like that. Have you opened a support ticket with Bambu Lab? They might send you a replacement bed.
@@l0rider I printed the same part that began this issue on both my Voron 2.4 and a coreXY of my own design, both have cheap AliExpress build plates/magnets, on both I intentionally put the part the same distance from the front corner of the build plate as it had been on the X1C's bed. I printed at the same temperatures and speeds, both prints resulted in perfectly useful parts, no warping at all and only a little ringing due to the speeds. I've tried ASA and PA on the X1C, both gave the same results, sticking to the build plate but still warping by pulling the build plate off the magnet. I've tried the engineering plate, the cool plate, the hot plate, the double sided textured PEI plate, an aftermarket double sided textured PEI plate, while the aftermarket plate actually seemed to do a little better, all had the same result, the print stuck to the build plate but warped by pulling the build plate up off the bed magnet. The magnet on my X1C is just weak.
Yes, I opened a support ticket, Bambu's response was to increase the bed temp to 110C (ABS's glass transition temp, which creates it's own issues). I've tried higher bed temps, lower nozzle temps that meant I had to lower print speeds as well, soaking the bed, doing all that while using a chamber heater to preheat the chamber to 45C before starting to print. Then end result was that no matter how slow or low temp I print, large ABS, ASA and PA prints still stick to the build plate but warp by pulling the build plate off the magnet. Bambu's customer service and product support on this issue has been horrible so far. I haven't used the X1C much because of this issue, maybe 60 hours total, most of that trying to get ABS/ASA/PA to print successfully, though due to it's expense I've quit trying to print PA on the X1C, I cannot afford to waste it. Now the mainboard cooling fan is starting to squeal, despite the low usage time. I honestly expect Bambu to recommend ear plugs to solve this issue, that's the level of product support I now expect from them.
I'll never buy another Bambu Lab product again and I cannot in good conscious recommend their products due to the poor customer service/product support. I truly do like some of the features of the X1C and I love the ease of use of the AMS but if I cannot get ABS, ASA or PA prints from the machine yet can successfully print all those filaments, print much larger parts with no warping and at faster speeds with my other printers, what use is the X1C? It seems they haven't even considered that maybe my printer just got a bad magnet, they definitely haven't offer to replace the magnet in an effort to make it right. I've sent the .3mf of the first print this happened with, video of the issue, told them all I'd tried towards trying to get good, non-warped prints and all they have is telling me to raise bed temps even more to reduce the strain on the weak magnet. I have had ABS prints warp on other printers, pulling off the build plate due to poor bed adhesion, always solved by increasing bed adhesion via glue stick, a slurry or using a different print surface. I've never had a print that stuck to the build plate warp by pulling the build plate off the magnet until I got the X1C. Every part that this has happened with on the X1C I have been able to print successfully without warping with either of my other printers, even if I place the parts right on the corner/edge of the bed. The magnet of my X1C just sucks.
I guess I should stop knocking the build plates/magnets on my other printers as "cheap AliExpress" since both are better than that of the expensive X1C. Maybe I just got a bad magnet, stuff happens, but the lack of product support and no effort to make it right from Bambu has really ticked me off. The printer is nothing but a dust collector now, sitting unused since I mostly print mechanical parts that need to be chemical/oil resistant so need to be ABS or ASA most of the time, nylon now and then but I cannot use the X1C for those filaments.
I'm disabled and on a fairly low fixed income. I'd been saving up for two years to buy a kit to build a Rat Rig V-Core. I really, really wish I'd stuck with doing that rather than deciding to buy the X1C with that money. I feel like I was ripped off.
Sorry for the long rant. As you can see, I'm really upset over this. As I said, I feel like I was ripped off. The only thing that has lived up to their advertisements has been the AMS but it's useless with anything other than a Bambu Lab printer. I truly wish I'd not spent a dime on any Bambu Lab product. I'm sure I'd be much happier with a V-Core and an ERCF for multi-color/filament printing. However, it's going to be at least two more years of saving up before I can build one now.
@@Allazander Wow, I'm sorry to hear you didn't get a good response from Bambu Lab. If Bambu Lab won't help any further, I suggest selling your X1C and putting the money towards the Rat Rig / ERCF. It's definitely not ideal, but I don't see any reason to hang onto the X1C if it's not useful to you.
I'm planning to use my X1C to print the ABS parts to build a Voron 2.4, while it's still under warranty. The X1C is the only fully enclosed machine I own right now. I will definitely try to fill the build plate while printing those parts, as I'm curious if my machine will have the same issue as yours.
The Bambu is designed to be a tool. I don’t see anything wrong with simple add-ons, but different firmware? That’s insane! That’d be like running a different operating system on your iPhone. Don’t mess with the core functionality. The electronics and software working together are what make the machines great. Trying to clone the tool board, or any of the other boards, sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I will say that the SoftFever fork of Bambu Studio is great, but not without its flaws. BL has even incorporated some features from the fork into the main branch. (See the latest Studio release notes.)
I love your videos Jonathan, but I can’t be the only person who’s watching at 1.25-1.5x speed. Brevity is your friend, especially when most of us have social media induced ADD. Stay frosty! ✡️
I wach him at 2x speed 🤪
X1C user here, I own the official pei plate and 3rd party pei plates in gold and black. I've done some tests on these 3 plates, and have concluded that Bambu Lab is right about not using Lidar with pei plates.
Firstly, I would like to point out that the Lidar flow calibration has a greater impact on print quality rather than bed adhesion.
In my tests, the flow calibration with Lidar ran without error on both the official pei plate and black pei plate, error only occurred on the gold pei plate. Everything stuck well on the pei plates. However, I've noticed slight overshooting on some corners of my test prints with all the pei plates, which was not present when I re-ran the calibration and printed on a cold plate.
This leads to the conclusion that, even when the Lidar calibration ran without any error, it doesn't mean the value measured from the calibration is correct, and going through the Lidar calibration on a pei plate will lead to an incorrect value that affects the quality of the print. I think too many users are thinking "Lidar calibration without error on pei = successful calibration", and that's why in the latest update, Bambu Lab has disabled this function entirely when the pei plate is chosen.
Hope it helps!
Too bad it can't do the calibration ahead of time for all of the filaments in your AMSs and then store them instead of just storing the last one done.
I have the Bambu textured and smooth PEI plates. No error messages with these plates. I will keep this Bambu stock. If I want go back to modding I have 2 Enders to play with. My Bambu just works
Ditto but there's one exception. If you wipe with IPA, the white printed text starts to blur a little. That's not a major issue but the AruCo Tags (like a QR code) also blur and then quite quickly it doesn't recognise that side of the plate. You can choose to continue but it's a hold-up each time. So far wiping just the middle and avoiding the text (on the other side) has been ok.
A really good video. Both.
Good information and tests, and I like the way to present it. Really enjoy watching your videos.
Gotta throw this out there. The cool plate can be one of the best plates.
I am nearing 1900 hrs on my Bambu lab X1CC with 1700hrs on my original cool plate. (150hrs on BL pei for a work project)
Glue stick was only used for about a week before I washed it off an used something else.
I now use Vision miner Nano Polymer and the build surface looks flawless and my parts do not have a tacky residue.
I am on my original cool plate and it looks new.
As a bonus of the nano polymer works on all build surfaces for BL printers. It is an adhesive and a barrier/release agent.
Another bonus is if PLA you do not need to heat the bed like PEI so you are saving energy too.
So again you do not need to use glue stick.
Presition bottom surfaces and Bambu Lab in one sentence. Lol, you made my day
This video is 5 months old... time for an update 🙂 Especially for those of us who just ordered the P1S
Honest thoughts and tests. Thank you as always
My 5 cents, if it is working don't mess with it... :)
T-U for the review
There's also the honeybadger from fabreeko that's smooth on one side and textured on the other, it's superb.
Definitely want to see another episode for more 3rd party products and mods for the bambu printer. There's too many now, it's good to see which ones might be worth doing.
I have the original Bambu Textured PEI plate and do not have any errors or warning messages using it. I think when I got it, there were no alternatives available. Also, some others have suggested that you can possibly just use the "cold" plate the X1C comes with but heat it up to 55C and then it holds PLA fine without glue. I have not tried this. But I can see how this could work, as on the Prusa, I never used the PEI plate cold, always had it at 60C.
it does not help that much, heating up the cold plate to 55 or 65.
I intend on getting a one of these X1Cs. The build plate options are likely the only thing I’d want to change. With what I print, I don’t need any of the other types of mods that are available.
Like all things, just gotta figure out what it’s purpose is going to be and if it’s already good enough.
Thanks for the reviews and the guidance on the parts. Keep up the great work. And let the editor have at least one bathroom break 😂
I just bought mine and they now have texture plates etc straight from bambu you can buy fyi
@ValleyTV I picked up a textured one from bambu when I ordered my x1c on friday. Also waiting on cheapies from aliexpress. Gold pei did right by my ender 3s.
Think my answer to your question would be this : I bought a P1S two months ago to step into the world of 3d printing since it is new to me, so I wanted a printer that would, out of start, work so I could spent my time on learning and discovering. Besides that I'm a 25 year Linux user, although professionally a Microsoft senior engineer. In Linux I like to have the option to get an out of the box working solution like Debian that I can tweak, or go for a Gentoo distribution that I need to spent weeks on to tweak exactly to my hardware. What I want to point out is I would like to have freedom in choice, also with Bambu. Stick to their eco system and not bother with hard or software or equipment or be able to start tweaking if I would like to do so.
I have the Bambu Textured plate and use it on my X1CC, never had an error. Not used it on the latest firmware though...
I think there are some different groups of users, and as in all groups, these also intersect into lots of smaller groups. There is definitely a group whose main interest is 3d printing and tinkering. And then another group, whose main interest is using 3d printing as a tool. For the first group, they will likely tinker away regardless of what the printer does out of the box regardless of how great it is, because tinkering is the hobby. For the second group, they might tinker if they must, or to get some slightly higher performance, but ultimately they weigh the risk/reward much more as they want to use 3d printing as a tool to do some other hobby (or business).
The best upgrade to the X1C I've seen is the LED strip upgrade, as the internal lighting is pretty dim.
Pop off the light diffuser and it's a bit better
My X1C came with the Bambu Textured 2-sided plate, and I LOVE it, but I also bought the 2-sided PEI sheet because I had one on my last creality printer and loved it
I do not yet own a 3D printer. That said, I like to tinker, when either necessary or there is available down time. However, I much prefer my expensive tools to work. The reason I'll pay more for a well built and reliable tool is so that there are no excuses for poor performance other than 'me' causing the issues. I want my camera tripod head to hold rock steady where I put it. I want my table saw fence to hold perfect alignment once set. I can't stand cheap tools that wobble and twist and loosen out of true.
If I were to buy a 3D printer, I either want to get an inexpensive one that 'may' need a few upgrades to work perfectly (tinkering) or if I was to buy a Bambu Labs/other of the same price point, I would expect it to be right on with a small set up and learning curve. And no downtime - I can find doorstops much cheaper than $1500.
As far as walled garden vs. aftermarket/open source, I say use the best option available that does the best job for the lowest costs, wherever that comes from - as long as it's legal and no one/thing gets hurt.
Thank you. I am binging X1C YT's atm, seriously thinking of buying one once I have eyeballed one in a showroom next week.
You asked about "to mod or not to mod". That is the (your) question. I am a "use it out of the box" kinda guy. I simply want a tool to let me express my engineering creativity - enclosures for electronics projects, robotics parts, silly-but-useful little gadget around the house, toys for grandchildren. I love being able to design something in F360 and have it come to life.
All that notwithstanding, there are still changes I will do, if I buy the X1C, things to make it better suited to my specific need. First off will probably be an internal VOC air recirculating purge system. My tiny lab/workshop/office/playroom is in the middle of the house, I like printing in ABS and want to play with nylon, ASA, etc., and my wife has a very sensitive nose. So VOCs are a major consideration. I will probably also add some internal LED strips, and definitely make some desiccant capsules that fit inside the cores of filament spools. Those are things that do not encroach on warranty conditions. I am very careful about that - here in Australia we have very strong consumer protection laws, and I won't jeopardise that.
I get the argument, but my concern with the walled garden is, if Bambulab go out of business or stop supporting a printer to sell their new version, the reliance on cloud services and proprietary software dlls and proprietary hardware could leave you with an expensive paperweight. I say they as someone who bought an x1 carbon with AMS and also has a Prusa mk3s+, and who has iPhone, iPad, MacBook. But also has window and Linux laptops and pcs. I love the harmony of the walled garden when I just want to get something done, but when I want to do something cool and interesting I can step out of the walled garden. The walled garden is great if you can afford it and until it’s turned off on you then it’s not so great because you have an expensive paperweight and no one can help you. Appreciate the videos and keep up the great work. Thanks.
Yeah, I would love to see you hold us updated on new parts, after hvis video, I consider buying the cheap chinese build plate, so thanks for that 👍
Keep up the good work my man 👍
After owning and modifying several creality machines, it was nice to just get a machine that is awesome straight out the box. When I got my first Ender3 just after release, the amount of mods and upgrades was huge as was the fan base, but in all fairness after the hotend mod was done it didn't really need all those mods. I admit PEI sheet was a godsend, but it worked and some mods even made it worse. I wont be modifying this one except maybe the buildplate surface, as it works well so why screw a £1500 machine up? Just need to modify the hell out of all my Creality machines now to keep up 😅 It's all personal preference and if you just can't help yourself with your tinkering habit like most long time users
Yea its a never ending cycle of doing mods for a printer. Now with the X1C I'm like this is what all printers should feel like lol.
I think Bambu owners are in two camps. One that does not want to change anything and the other that is very open to 3rd party products. I appreciate that it just works, but am interested in the build plates. I ordered the Wham Bam almost a month ago, still waiting, but would enjoy not having to pre treat my Bambu plate before use. Nozzles, etc are on the back burner until better products are produced and reviewed. I would like to see a replacement for the Bambu Cloud, where it would be totally local. That I would jump on.
Great series, I would like to see that v6 nozzle upgrade though!
I really enjoyed watching this second video and am looking forward to future videos from you.
As for modifying my Bambu Labs printers: I added additional lights (Ikea Mitled 20cm fits nicely and is controlled as a smart home light) to the X1C. The Bambu LED is ok, but I wanted to see clearer details in the video feed on the dark PAHT-CF prints I do. I added the same lights to my P1P, as I was not part of the kick-starter (with the lights, aux fan and camera bundle) and these options still aren't available through Bambu. I designed some custom parts to angle the lights down at the print plate and to manage the cables of the Ikea lights.
For the P1P I added a camera mount to hold a Raspberry Pi camera which streams live video. No automatic time lapse videos but I can now check the print live video feed.
As for the print plates, I use, BL PEI plates for PLA, Engineering plate for PAHT-CF and the Wham Bam plates when I want mirror surface first layer
@@BigfootPrinting I tried carbon filaments on my Prusa MK3S+ and ended up replacing parts a lot faster than usual. The added wear with abrasive materials is impressive. So, to answer your question: I print PAHT-CF on the X1-C and don't want to risk damaging the nozzle and the gears of the P1P
Your last point is valid, I want minimum alterations to the machine, Bambu supported hotends good for me. The PEI plates, typical good addition. The rest of the stuff like printed parts for enclosures (P1P) all good.
I had issues initially with the Bambu cool plate. I found out using the Dawn power spray to give it a bath and a little scrub with a course sponge I can go 2-4 weeks of constant printing with a sprits of alcohol between prints I have had zero issues and no need for glue. I have printed 20 KG so far and no issues. The engineering plate has garnered the same results with ABS and PETG and the same cleaning process.
I just bought the Bambu Dual-Sided Textured PEI Plate as an alternative and works fine, even the one that comes with the printer(cool plate) works fine without putting the glue ( only tested with PLA+)... well this video has 4 months... they could change some stuff, thanks for your videos
I don't use glue on the Bambu cool plate and it works great.
Just a wipe with Isopropyl Alcohol before a print and it's great.
I have a Bambu textured PEI plate, and haven’t seen any of the errors you encountered with the Aliexpress one. OTOH, adhesion seems just a little tenuous with it. I can’t recall having a spaghetti monster with it (have had a couple, but don’t remember which plate they were from), but the parts literally fall off the plate when it cools. I’d be more confident if there was just a *little* cold adhesion.
I also have a Wham Bam and since I got it, the other plates have been gathering dust. (It is important to clean it well with IPA after each use though. That’s almost as much hassle as glue stick, maybe even more - but it gives a better surface finish.
As to making my own mods - HELL NO. The whole point of the X1C for me is that I send it prints and it JUST WORKS. Every. Time. The prints are beautiful and perfect and I don’t have to spend a moment thinking about it or tweaking settings. That’s exactly what I need, and the X1C + AMS was cheap in retrospect.
2:22 Shillbat Shalom! 🤣🤣 Great video, sounds like there's some solid upgrade options there and more to come. Even if they have supply issues, the X1C is popular enough that China will provide. A dedicated user base with higher budgets will always attract clone manufacturers, and though sus from an IP perspective, it's a nice reassurance for a potential purchaser. I'm leaning towards getting an X1C but I'm going to give it time for them to sort out some of the initial issues and do upgrades to their prod models like screw in plate fan instead of tape. That and better/faster support should be fixable with time.
Thanks for testing. Just bought an X1 with your ref link. Hope it helps!
X1C and a Tesla user i wouldn´t do anything with these machines that could ruin the system. I truly love this printer. Thanks for the video again.
Got the Wambam Pex plate and the Gold Pei plate for my P1P. Both have been excellent. Also, since there’s no LiDAR, it just works flawlessly. Also bought the 0.6 nozzle which made it drastically quieter for all prints. Great vid
I personally had a terrible experience with the pet and abs together nothing ever stuck consistently with it.
does the 0.6 nozzle make it quieter? how?
@@Calzune A Bambu printer moving at full speed is almost neck and neck with the max flow rating of the 0.4mm nozzle. Used together, the hotend flys around trying to get the narrow (0.4mm) lines of filament down and is fairly noisy. When you go up to 0.6mm nozzles the printer doesn't have to work as hard or move as quickly to get the same amount of filament down, in turn it ends up moving a bit slower since the Nozzles melt speed becomes the bottleneck and not the speed of the printer. Since all bambu lab printers speed settings are determined by the "volumetric speed limitation" setting, when you go to the larger 0.6 mm, the printer has to slow down since its motors are capable of moving faster than the 0.6mm can melt. Tried to word that as best as possible, hopefully that makes sense lol ..... P.S if your printing something that you have to print slow like tpu, tpe, etc. then the nozzle wont have any impact on noise.. It''s only for your PLA's , PETG's, and High speed filaments that you'll notice a difference between the nozzles.
@@DifferentAverage wow thanks for that detailed answer! I don't have a bambu yet but I'm planning on selling my mk3s and buy one 😁
If you’re printing toys, you can play with open source. But if you have to print critical parts, then stick with a good printer out of the box. Sure, there can be some third party accessories such as printing surfaces, that are worth a try. Wham Bam has a good rep.
Fabreeko (Honey Badger) black PEI Smooth / Textured sheets are fantastic, and are in fact, actual PEI. Closed source doesn’t bother me at all :)
I just received my order from Ali for 2 PEO plates gold PEI on one side and a shattered triangle pattern on other and a Carbon Fiber pattern. They are working great and the pattern transfers look amazing
Very nice!
If I start doing hardcore mods then I'm giving away the main reason why I switched from bed slingers to this! That I like to tinker in my prints, not my printer. I don't want to make y printer my never ending project. The nozzle is a no no for me there because of the reason just mentioned. The High Temperature build plate is really good, the cool plate I've had used with glue and without and honestly I like it, just have to apply the thinnest and evenness layer of glue, a crappy and ugly layer is exactly what is going to be reflected in the print. Btw, you Have to try the Carbon Fiber textured knock off build plate, it doesn't have the same adhesion and you can scratch it and damage it if you're not careful but the results are astonishing when you pair it with black cf filament, it hides the pattern of the print for a nice looking carbon fiber pattern.
I don't consider the X1C plug and play when I off and on fight force sensor 2 errors that show as either a Z-axis fail or a mesh leveling fail. As far as plates, I hated the Bambu Lab textured PEI until I was informed that Bambu Lab recommends against cleaning with IPA. Using just dish soap and warm water fixed most of the adhesion issues. The Energetic from Aliexpress still has parts adhere better. However, when printing with a brim, the Bambu Plate gives a better result. The Energetic has the brim adhering too well to the model such that using a deburring tool is necessary. I was shocked pulling a box off of the Bambu Lab plate and seeing the brim come off immediately. Yes!
Honestly, I rock the Bambu textured PEI sheet daily. The only reason I chose it over the AliExpress was the QR code compatibility. I don't like the idea of having to manually bypass a prompt every time I go to print. Though that could be solved quickly and easily with a laser adding the QR code to the appropriate location on the cheap sheet.
No errors, etc from the textured sheet regarding the lidar / temp / anything though.
I don't mind simple mods, like the desicant holders for the AMS unit or the poop shoot bucket. But I think its funny that people are mad or at least turned off by a printer that from what I've seen prints faster and more reliably than any other printer, even after the many many mods that people have made to theirs. I don't have the X1C yet, but I'm on the list waiting to order one. It seems to be what I'm looking for. It looks like a finished product the print really well and reliably. Simple maintenance is expected in this hobby, but I don't want to spend hours repairing or making changes anymore. I don't have time for that. And that's just my personal preference.
I'm a long time glue stick user. With a removable build plate, however, hair spray from the dollar store is easier to apply, and the texture on the print is better as well. Apply many coats, and lay flat to dry.
Great video amigo, thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
I enjoyed the video and all the continuing drama about build plates! I have been using the Cool Plate with Windex as the release agent for my Kickstarter X1Carbon from day 1 for PLA printing and it has worked well for me. Still using the original sticker. I bought the Bambu Lab textured PEI plate because of all the raving about pEI build plates. It’s a back up I have yet to use. I may get around to trying it it. Don’t really need the textured surface for anything I’m currently doing. From what I can tell from what I read, the PEI plates seem to require just as much attention, if not more, than the Cool Plate.
How do you use the windex to get the cold plate to work well for you?
@@umbette This is the title of the TH-cam video I watched the day my x1 Carbon arrived: Bambu Lab X1C without Glue Stick th-cam.com/video/bR0HBcdSO3Q/w-d-xo.html Good Luck!
I look forward to seeing new X-Axis end pieces with the "correct" idlers for the toothed sided of the belt. If I had another printer, I'd pull mine apart and draw some up. I can't see any reason why we can't go all "Voron" on this thing.
@thenextlayer Just to bite the bullet on the X1. Do you still recommend it and are these the plates still the ones you recommend?
Yes and yes!
@@thenextlayer Thanks for the speedy reply. My X1 one has shipped. Time to get accessorizing.
Yeah! i think it just uses regular motors, fans, heaters, etc, just like the majority of FDM printers (of course except for the hotend and the lidar). As for P1P goes at leas, in the worst case you coud hook-up an ordinary motherboard to run the motors, heaters, etc, because the chassis and motion system is great! I ordered a genuine Bambu hotend to test on my typical v-slot bedslinger and it prints great, way better then the original alu block Ptfe lined hotend, and with no modification on the motherboard (only in the firmware setting, I took the effort to actually measure and calibrate the little thermistor that came with the hotend). My only remaining concern is those special bearings on the carbonfiber rods, I've seen pictures online with scratched rods because something went wrong with those bearings.
does the whambam build plate work at the lower heated bed settings like the cool plate?
I do have thoughts on the LIDAR. My understanding is that the LIDAR is used to examine the flow rate test. If you aren't bothering with doing a flow rate test, the LIDAR is irrelevant. The LIDAR may also be involved in looking for first layer defects. But if the mechanical parts of the printer did what they were supposed to, there won't *be* a first layer defect to detect. So... if the LIDAR isn't working with the textured PEI sheet, but the printer worked properly anyway, then there won't be an actual issue with the parts.
An interesting experiment would be to deliberately create a first layer defect and then try all the different build surfaces to see if the printer reacts to it.
Not sure I'd go as far as saying adding a new build plate is making the Bambu modifiable. I like that someone has created a knockoff hotend. I have mine on order. It will arrive someday from China. Also, I did get a 3rd party PEI plate for my P1P. Partly because i wanted a smooth surface but also to get a thicker plate to deal with the P1P bed not being as flat as my Prusa. I'll be more impressed when the day comes where Bambu makes a printer that allows for replacing bearings, rods, motors, and the heated bed. Not that i want to mod those things, but in most cases, I want to be able to repair them myself. Right now, bearings and rods are non-serviceable by us. I have some big concerns that my P1P will be throw away in 2 yrs because only Bambu can fix those items, and outside of warranty, it will be too costly to send the whole printer. Learning experience for me. Hindsight is 20/20. I shouldve waited on my purchase. But.. some people won't care about that.. "I made my money". That's not me though.
So I don't have a bambu printer yet. I'm saving for one. I get that the parts aren't serviceable by us because it's a destructive process. But what's stopping us from designing and printing new carriage blocks that allow us to swap bearings and rods?
It's not ideal but better than throwing away the printer or spending huge money sending it back to Bambu for service.
@@nathantoews152 I have yet to tear mine down but from others who have investigated more into it, its all press fit or epoxied together. So not even sure it would be possible w/o destroying parts. In another video, Nathan Builds Robots said Bambu wouldn't let him replace his idler carriage and it had to get sent in because it required special tooling.
@John Olson I'm aware it would destroy it. But I'm saying at the point where the printer is already broken. Instead of throwing it away the community or individual would be better off to print replacement parts.
@@nathantoews152 Honestly non user serviceable usually means planned obsolescence. There are some aspects of design that basically protect the product from an end user like using a plastic gear that will strip and save the gear box and motor on a drill when the end user tries to over torque it in use so when it needs repair you buy a $5 nylon gear instead of a new drill. This is not that. I knew the x1c was closed ecosystem but not to the point of scummy design the proprietary nozzle/hotend design was enough to keep me from buying one but the assemblies were cheap enough and honestly for what they were doing it made enough sense I wasnt mad about it and wouldnt be a total deal breaker by itself. But having motion parts not only non user serviceable but basically disposable is scummy design. I would suggest looking into a voron or ratrig instead of the X1C if you are an enthusiast who wants a corexy machine. Yeah its going to be a lot of work but its worth it in the end and it will be your machine not a cookie cutter aluminum box.
@Joseph Vanas for an enthusiast I would agree with you. I run a business though. And a 50 hour build for a voron or a open the box and it just works design serve 2 different purposes. I do agree motion parts need to be user serviceable. But the good news is in the age of 3d printing the community will find a way to make these parts just that.
I think the real reason to consider aftermarket is basically insurance against Bambu potentially slipping too far.
We are 6ish months into the first printers and already customer service is struggling.
Reports of refusing to honour warranties because someone didn't keep the original box, or advising people to grease the belts to mask a noise, even sending a known smashed printer to a second customer with the original shipping label still visable.
Many of these parts like the gantry or the bed were made to be impossible to service, do we want to be at the mercy of a company already struggling to keep up with support to also repair the machines and ship back to us? Time will tell if this is another project like Kodama who also made a printer full of proprietary parts and most backers now have paperweights, or a long term player in the industry. I hope its the latter but only time will tell.
I like your suggestion of building a Voron if you want to tinker and for the most part it is true, but competition drives innovation and maybe a 3rd party company will produce parts that help Bambu refine the product further
Gotta say your comment about somebody hacking the Bambu aged very well. 😂🎉
You should read about scanners and optical distance sensors. When you put textured surface in printer, sensor only sees a lot of irregularities and it doesn't know that you changed surface because it's not programmed for it. So when it's confused then it throws error and only error that is programmed for this case is check if camera is dirty or something similar.
For this same reason P1P does t have this "lidar". This sensor needs to be in clean space without external light or dust to be precise and that can happen only in clean box. P1P doesn't have box so they removed lidar as well
@@lovrocatela8727 - Bambulab did not add lidar to P1S, there are allot videos showing lidar does not work
I have the satin fabreeko black pei sheet and it's been absolutely perfect since day 1.
I think a company should make a g10 plate for it. I myself like the mirror finish and I have one on my ender, no need for glue, I found that putting the first layer hotter helps it stick to the plate and the part does a kind of static cling to it. Makers Muse made a video about g10 which is where I got the idea to run one on my ender.
Been using FR4 and it’s awesome, just pops off when cool.
@@marksneyd1262I’ve been thinking about trying FR4 but haven’t seen a recommendation for it. Thanks
@The Next Layer can this printer print PEEK, if not... is there a Hotend upgrade that will let you go up to 500 C.
This printer seems to work very will for pretty much everyone on TH-cam. My X1 Carbon, however isn't working and I have not been able to get any help from Bambo. The biggest issue is that I had to disconnect my AMS because I couldn't get it to change filaments. It would only use the filament on the far left. Went to the standard filament rack on the back & got 1 print. Then I tried to remove that filament, and I can't. When pulling on the filament in the back of the printer as soon as the screen says to remove it, It will not come out, regardless of the force used. I did not use sufficient force to break the filament.
For those that don't read all the directions, Bambu Labs fixed the "problem" with the latest firmware release...
X1/X1-Carbon and AMS Firmware Release History
OTA version 01.04.01.00 (20230227)
【Improvements】
1. [Algorithm] Optimized the HMS prompt explaining that the PEI build plate does not support first layer inspection.
what does that mean optimized? lol
I would not change the nozzle, I've been using different build plates, I see no issue with that. I am tempted to print the guts of the AMS that make it more compatible with different spool size. For me, this is not a money savings thing, it's more in terms of actual improvements. Nozzle seems to be just a curiosity -- BL prices for nozzle/heatsink swap vs the 3rd party is basically the same, so that's not a problem I see that needs a solution -- if BL goes out of business, sure. I owned a TypeAMachines Series1 printer, which was deemed as the Apple of 3d printers some years back due to industrial design if anything, and a very premium price I suppose. They used a lot of proprietary parts, and no one was dunking on them for doing so. They went out of business because they never iterated and their prices were not competitive, so engineering alternatives for out of market proprietary parts made sense.
Whether or not the prints turn out well doesn't mean that Lidar is 'working' with textured plates. The Lidar has fine enough resolution to pick up on the uneven finish of the textured bed and thereby applying a suboptimal K factor adjustment.
This is why Bambu says not to use Lidar with textured plates, and if you wish to do that, first run flow calibration on a smooth plate, as the machine will retain that calibration until you restart the machine.
Newbie here. Is there a hyperlink to the Bambu store? For the high cost, I want to make sure I'm the right site and not a good scam site. Thanks.
just FYI, when the lidar flow calibration "fails", it does so silently and simply falls back to the default internal pressure advance value, and there's no way to tell when it has or hasn't done so
Funny that 4 months later, the P1S ships WITH the gold textured plate.
I've got a Wham Bam PEX plate for my X1-Carbon but at 90% of a print test with PLA it lost adhesion... I followed the instructions from Wham Bam regarding what to change in the settings for bed and hot end temperature, fan... but they might not be good for me. what should I change or check?
I'm also having problems with PEI textured plate I got from AliExpress... again adhesion!
Sounds like you need Dawn dish soap in your life.
@@thenextlayer done. still some issues. I can print 90% then the piece starts moving.
no issues with cool plate + glue
I accidentally bought the Wham Bam PEX plate at Microcenter ($54!) because the employee didn't understand that I was asking for an additional PEI plate, and said it was the same but better... but the Wham Bam plate came with a 'scuffing' pad, and requires that I scratch the bejesus out of it for 10 minutes straight... I'm not going to do that. I'm returning it, I love love LOVE the PEI plate from Bambu, and though I'd love the glossy plate finish, the scuffing is going to leave ... scuffs in my prints, no? either way, I'm just not loving that I need to DAMAGE this board to use it and then of course can't return it.
Looks like you've spent a lot of effort on these video series, well done.
In my opinion, none of the aftermarket parts you've tested make any sense for someone who *bought* the printer for >$1200. Cheaping out on nozzles and build plates is not smart, and as you said it yourself, even the most expensive option from the OEM (complete hotend assembly) is relatively affordable, in case you want to skip on the thermal paste mess.
Speaking of mess - you shouldn't have faced it, but as you admitted its a user error. Luckily, bambu’s wiki is quite helpful for self-servicing your machine.
Last but not least - I find the engineering side of the original build plate absolutely excellent for printing ABS/ASA parts, which is what *I* mainly use the machine for. I wash the plate with dish soap, dry and apply a thin coat of their glue every 3rd plate I print. Works fine for me.
I'm personally of the opinion that the "Cold Plate" is an afterthought. On the Kickstarter, Bambu plainly stated that their goal was a printer that would easily and reliably work with PC, Nylon, and Carbon Fibre, and it's my guess that as some point well into design someone said "hey, we need to make this work with PLA, too," and the Cold Plate was the best they could come up with within limits of time/manufacturers/LIDAR tweaks/not losing the print during ridiculous speed printing. (Remember that the glue stick is not for adhesion, it's a release agent.)
That said, I also find the cold plate annoying (although the engineering plate with a single layer of glue stick that I only refresh about every 10 spools works amazingly well for ABS) , so I ended up with one of the AliExpress gold PEI sheets; mine is smooth because I really don't like a textured surface most of the time. It works very well for PLA and PETG but I had trouble with ABS. So I use the AliExpress plate for PLA and the Engineering Plate for ABS. (Also, on the smooth gold plate I don't get the LIDAR & camera errors except when printing with filament that's almost the same colour as the plate.)
So to answer your question: I'm willing to try out small things like an alternate build surface to see if my experience improves - but I'm not going to do major things like replace the firmware or rebuild the hotend to use a REVO nozzle just to "escape the walled garden." I also don't see any reason to try out the forked, open-source slicer variant. Such things would be useful if one was trying to integrate the X1 with other printers using other firmware and octoprint and such, but I'm not. I've retired my Ender-5 and am considering breaking it down for parts for my robot-building hobby; all my printing today is with the Bambu printer so I'll happily hand out in their garden.
What plate would you use for nylon?
Awesome show but these for sure don't work "perfectly". Just something you said near the end of the video. I was curious why you kept mention Flow Rate as a modification? I might've missed a part in the video about this but things like PA and flow rate are filament specific so there is no way to avoid it with models like the P1P or using the X1 w/ the proprietary PEI sheet.
Great Video on the build plates. Hopefully the Bambu build sheet fanboys don't get wind of your opinion and flame you over it. I made a comment on FB on the fact that Bambu didn't include a textured high temp plate with a $1500 machine and the post was bombarded with nothing but hate messages and insults.
Add another 10 dollar or so and uncle Ali throws in a PEO sheet too. Talking about awesome finish...
The Bambu Dual-Sided Textured PEI Plate is best of all worlds , sticks like mad doesn't warp , but will remove easy when cool.
But NOT installed the latest firmware .
What's wrong with the latest firmware?
I am personally 50/50 about it all. The plain fact is there is no need for them to go the closed source aspect. That said I can see where it makes sense, the fact that everything is so standard means everything just works. If your 3d printing for a living as a business it makes compete sense to go that route.
I really would love to see more in the middle printers and more innovation. I am going to play the wait and see game though. Personally for me the extra speed of the x1c isn't really important to me. I honestly have considered going the route of a refurb ender 5+ and doing a bunch of mods to it.
I’ve just bought into the ecosystem, and to be honest closed ecosystem would normally be a huge turnoff, BUT, their parts are literally cheaper than what I find for open source printers when you look at equivalents (hardened steel nozzles for example). And I know that whatever I buy from them will work almost all the time. This is now my third printer, and for the first time I’ve spent over $500 on one, so hopefully it pays off.
I got one of these but its pei on one side and lile carbon fibre pattern on the other. Does anyone know what i should set the printer to?
i have a cheap textured pei plate i sanded one side down to get a smother finish
Don't want to do much upgrading. Getting the X-1C so I don't have to dink with it. I had to do that with my Creality CR-10s4
Good idea. I regret modifying mine.
TBH anytime people mention its good to be open source. The main discussion is so people can make the product better. Well I'm paying over 1500. I don't want to think about what could make it better. I want something that just works.
Would G10 glued to a steel plate work?
Nice save
Would love to see how the PEO build plate works
So when you print PETG on the Wham Bam you HAVE to use gluestick? 1:32
Yes and still I’ve damaged it so maybe use your other bed for PETG
Huh, I’ve been exclusively using the cool plate with magigoo for a few weeks now and I’ve had zero issues
I have both the gold el cheapo Chinese PEI sheet and the official Bambu PEI sheet and both work equally well for me and unlike you, with both of them I don't get any errors as the ones you've shown. I would contact Bambu support if I were you, I don't think it's an issue related to the plate and probably is a different issue.
Thanks for letting me know. I’ll check into it.
@@thenextlayer you're welcome, hope it helps!
Wow, you're pretty flippant about the whole closed source thing. I'd say it's a more serious issue than you might think. Today, sure, it seems fine. But in the long run - I'm seeing some incredibly negative effects from closed source in other markets. I recently switched from Windows to Linux, and am happy I did. It's becoming clear to me that "you will own nothing and be happy" is the future of closed source systems, and I'm concerned that's the path that will be taken if manufacturers try to go proprietary.
Hardware and software aren’t the same though. Your car is closed source. That doesn’t stop aftermarket parts…
@@thenextlayer Well, look at inkjet printers and the ink situation: A lot of ink cartridges connect electronically to the printer and essentially have DRM preventing third parties from making replacement cartridges. They also track ink usage to discourage refilling.
In addition, with electronics being added to basically everything, there has been a lot of discussion over ownership of hardware and right to repair. Just recently, there has been discussion over Ford patenting technologies to make self-driving cars reposes themselves. Keurig tried to add DRM to their K-cups a few years ago. John Deere has been rather notorious for trying to lock down their tractors. We do see instances of trying to erode ownership rights, even in the hardware space.
Been printing on the cool and high temp plate, never used glue ever.
Maybe I’ll give another chance.
"Every time you mess with that harmony, you change something"
Yeah that sounds EXACTLY like the sh*t takes Louis Rossmann accuses his Apple fanboy customers of when they go out of their way to be Apple's useful idiot against right to repair.
I find it funny that your video editor had to edit himself in even though that would take more time. Poor bastard!
LOL
Wham bam beds are excellent!
Based upon your review of the textured plate in this video I purchased one exactly the same and have had exactly the opposite results. I have used other brands over the years with other printers and been happy but this one no matter what I do to clean it will not allow anything to adhere at all. Very annoying.
You have a new subscriber
whambam recommends gluestick with PEX btw
I use aqua net spray on cool plate no issue
I want a bambu to have something that just works when I need it too. I have other printers to tinker with
so far I've had none of those errors for the Bambu Textured PEI plate.
The jacket didnt help with not looking like a corporate Wham Bam shill haha
the people here to use glue sticks, or advise using glue sticks - I don't get it. No other 3D printer needs a glue stick to print well. I think the people who are advising glue sticks on here must be aged 70+ and still think postage stamps are "neat". That said, I can't get the Bambu basic PLA to stick to my cold sheet, at any temperature, or to the PEI sheets I bought, both Bambu-branded and off-brand. The PLA has been out of the box on the spool holder for about a month though and my house isn't that humid. I tried hairspray, washing it with dish soap, and I even tried sanding one PEI plate with 320 grit sandpaper. The Bambu PLA won't stick to it. For a great while, I thought the printer was just busted. Today I got the bright idea to go back to using off-brand PLA and while it didn't stick GREAT to my cold sheet + hairspray, it did stick a LOT better than the bambu PLA. I'm starting to think Bambu's PLA in particular, is much more susceptible to humidity and water gain than other PLA brands. I think this, more than anything else, is perhaps causing the adhesion issue. I'm going to try the Bambu PLA on my Creality CR10V3 and see if I get adhesion issues on IT. I can manually set the height up and down on that guy, and can get the right amount of "squish" on the 1st layer, and if I don't like it, I can adjust.
Bambu Lab is for the people who want to just work out of box no mod require
Truth