Sam Harris vs Bret Weinstein on vaccines | Vincent Racaniello and Lex Fridman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Vincent Racaniello: Vi...
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Vincent Racaniello is a virologist, immunologist, and microbiologist at Columbia. He is a co-author of the textbook Principles of Virology and co-host of This Week in Virology podcast.
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Most peoples behavior is governed by impulses arising in their unconscious which they attempt to rationalize retroactively, couple this with communal sentiments, reflexive political contrarianism, misinformation and other variables which influence behavior, and the notion that most people are making rational informed decisions completely falls apart.
Well said! And this desire of people to *want* to believe a narrative (independent of the quality of evidence and critical thinking) has been astonishing and a little disheartening.
Wow I cant disagree more! Perhaps you should get more fresh air and exercise.
This should be taught to us from the first day we enter a school.
@@jasonvoss1984 Yes...watching my "open minded" friends fall into the narrative one by one, despite solid evidence to the contrary is crushing to watch. I feel like I'm reliving post 911 again, and everyone is in the streets screaming for revenge...and giving carte blanche to the goons.
Funny the vaccines didn't work, everyone got infected, &it was/is just a shakedown for $. Brett's been continued to be vindicated; while Sam just slides further into his derangement. I appreciate what Lex &his guest are saying &would agree on other things, but we had a lot of this info even then, so idk why lex hadn't amended his take(s).
Not worked even a little? I thought people can get infected but not get decimated by the infection because the vaccines keep it at bay and in a while you're free of the infection.
Yeah... curious in May 2021, over 90% of COVID deaths were among unvaccinated. Makes sense.
Without data or transparency, the choice is a no-brainer for some of us.
Exactly. And to me, the data must include research of longterm side-effects, which can't possibly be known until after a long term of testing and research. Until then, I'll stick with other remedies that do have longterm data behind them.
This didn't age well... for Bret it did.
The vaccine doesn't prevent transmission and the hospital system hasn't been 'overwhelmed' since last spring. I have yet to see any coherent argument on how being unvaccinated is "irresponsible", other than potential risk for the individual making the decision
Trump 2024!!
@@suimeingwong2043 You won't find any evidence to his claim because he is lying. The numbers are 60% vs 40% un-vaccinated vs vaccinated. Having said that, it doesn't look much better either. 60/40 split pretty much means that unvaccinated people are only slightly more likely to end up in the the hospital.
@@miller-joel You need to put a link to the article
not think it was overwhelmed in any area other than wuhan and Milan Italy.
@@pnwbuilder read the Israel study. more likely to get really sick with Vaccine than those with natural immunity with former infection.
Maybe we just need to get it. Let antibodies build up then knock it out with ivermectin and ZPAK and a inhaled treatment of steroid with zinc and C as well. Just sayin. Also look up Dr, Robert Young research. He just analyzed from America samples all the vaccines on market and found graphene oxide a toxic magnetic in the vials. Other things as well. Look it up.
Let's see, it doesn't prevent you from getting it or spreading it. It may lessen the uncomfortable effects of it. Though, I had Covid and though it was uncomfortable it passed. My 74 year old friend, unvaccinated had it twice and came through. Seems the best I can say for it was it was like a rabbits foot for some and a big money maker for the pharmaceutical companies.
I guess you missed the part where millions of people died when there was no vaccine, and how millions of people were helped by the vaccine because it helps to prevent serious illness? I guess you missed that.
Wow two anecdotes. We now have papers that include millions of people and it demonstrably shows the vaccine works
@@AlanDantes76 They recorded motorcycle accidents as cov-19 and also reported zero flu-deaths lol.
Let’s see, it does reduces spread and it does reduce infection. It reduces severe illness and death.
The fact that you thought it was uncomfortable does not mean it can’t be dangerous for many.
Is it safer than getting covid? Yes, much much safer.
So the best you can say is a vaccine that greatly reduces the risk of deaths and severe illness but does not prevent all infection. Etc.
And yes, Pharma companies made lots of money from them and the connections between government and industries is troubling often.
(COVID was highly highly politicized and that shows una my video that brings it up)
I kNoW sOmeONe wHo HaD iT aNd waS fiNe! Jesus Christ, you people will never understand that anecdotes are not science.
If you listen to Brett I think he is on the middle ground, Sam Harris seems to be more on the extreme side though.
Bret's position is Ivermectine can end this in 2 months
Bret is anything but on the middle ground here
I am a fan of Sam when it comes to philosophical/spiritual terms, but here he obviously has not enough information.
For me it looks like:
He made that statement.
He later noticed that there is no ground to stand on, but
he doesn't want to be proven wrong in public.
That's why he declined Brets invitaton to discuss it openly.
If he was shure there is evidence for ihis position, why should he decline?
Come on Sam.
If you are not shure anymore,
it would be a sign of strenth to admit it.
Secular humanism in a nutshell, ends justify the means. Any man who thinks he can find morality, forgiveness & grace without God is a fool.
What's going on in Israel???
They're getting the 3rd dose, so everyone is immortal by now.
Huge wave of cases - I believe, largest in the world (according to Dr John Campbell's podcast). Though their population is almost entirely fully vaccinated.
@@gnoelalexmay well that would be contrary to psyence
Well Sam should understand that according to him, people have no free will, therefore its not their choice to get vaccinated or not.
😂
Maybe, great reason to mandate vaccinations!
this is hilarious, but it's true on a deeper level --- when you remove the human will from humanity, that makes it okay to treat humans like animals
Agree. I listened to and weighed all sides, then evaluated the data and made my choice.
When he said, "you're a smart person" meaning all humans, he was wrong.
It's just a trick, he doesn't believe that. He is being sneaky. I read these comments, and most of them are stupid. Missing the obvious that this is a pro-vaxx-push, it's not about "common sense". This is rhetoric.
Bret Weinstein has blood on his hands.
Vincent starts off his comments with an a priori assumption that must people are smart. This assumption is in fact, not true. By building one's case on bad assumptions the whole argument has no basis.
Agreed , just give the stats. The hard sell used car salesman approach is making people suspicious.
What a cop out..."If you want to take horse dewormer go ahead". Zero science leadership. What is your informed direction?
horrible and illogical comments made by harris
How many people have access to a vaccine and how many to ivermectin though?
I've heard Bret Weinstein speak on the unknown potential long term issues of the spike protein but in my mind he hasn't recommended against the vaccine. He's just reserved judgement until more is known about the long-term results. My recollection is that he has recommended the vaccine for older people or people in higher risk groups. I've found his conversations to be very reasonable and nuanced.
By the way, I've had the both doses of the vaccine and I'm glad I have; however, I completely support young/healthy individuals decision not to be vaccinated. I especially support people who have had COVID not being vaccinated, they very likely have better immunity than those of us who are vaccinated! Given the breakthrough effects of the Delta variant, it looks like most of us will get COVID at some point anyhow. Hopefully, those of us that are vaccinated with suffer less when that happens. But that doesn't mean I'm on my high horse thinking everyone should be vaccinated.
🙏🧠💯
Bret has in recent months pivoted towards a unambiguous anti vaccine position.
Not anti-vax in general of course, but he's alleged these vaccines which employ the spike protein are harmful.
It's because he's in an online group that thrives on these narratives and they lose themselves in it. Happened to Rogan and Weinstein. Lex sort of flirts with it. Vincent is not looking for fans and to be heard so he is more level headed. When lex was trying to push the flu is worse talking point you can see his flirting with these narratives.
This is refreshing
This is how every person should rationally think. Glad you posted this. Fight the hysteria
Time proved Bret correct
uhm, what? no it didn't There still seems to be no major issues with vaccines, yet many, many people with all kinds of symptoms due to Long Covid. Seems Sam is still right on that front
@@Peterdeskater100 for starters they were wrong about "vaccinated" people not being able to catch it and it stops transmission, as well stating it'll prevent death.
That was refreshingly non hysterical. Perhaps hysteria, rancor and presumption of sinister character aren't a necessary prerequisite for polarizing issues after all?
We don’t do hysteria here. Hell, we barely do emotions. Haha
Dumb it down Sherlock
@@shatteredteethofgod Hmm. Why do i belong somewhere else?
@@xe2014 he’s saying you can have the opposite opinion of someone without saying they have bad intentions or getting really mad at them.
By the way, I think Dumbing things down is smart because then more people get the idea.
@@shatteredteethofgod why would you say that to someone? It’s not like the idea was really technical and had to be phrased in exactly that way. lots of room for dumbing down.
Btw if you’re not gonna be funny or interesting, then please be nicer to others, this isn’t some elite sanctuary where geniuses are free to pop off at the jaw with their dazzling descriptions of complicated phenomena that only they can understand.
It’s a portal to a cloud of love which serves as a vehicle in the space of ideas that Lex set up so we eccentrics can come fly around and explore!
I am coming from a good faith position: if the vaccine cannot prevent transmission, why should we care if others are vaccinated?
Lex and his never ending “Reservoir Dogs” wardrobe.
DB Cooper wore it first.
Jokers to the left of me clowns to the right of me, stuck in the middle with you.
Accented with an abrasion on his face from training. Love it.
@@jeremyeddlemon what does abrasion dogs refer to?
Roflmao
Hi, 2023 here. Bret was right. Cheers!
Nope, no major issues with vaccines, but loads of issues with Long Covid. Covid is still way more dangerous than the vaccines, although luckily the new variants aren't as bad, although it could also have to do with herd immunity
how so?
Just saying someone was right doesn't make it true. It's amazing how immune to facts anti-vaxxers are.
he was absolutely categorically wrong in every meaningful way. I cannot fathom the brain rot.
He's wrong about how it all works. He completely forgets that there are tidal waves of misinformation for the average person. They cannot see both sides equally and make a decision.
Thata why Vincent's decsde long podcast This Week in Virology is a great content provider for the latest and very honest info about the Pandemic.
That’s not true at all, he’s spot on, people invent misinformation and that’s what he’s talking about. I would far rather take advice from a virologist like him than Brett Weinstein who believes he will be vindicated about COVID and spouts absolutes.
Unless you have above average critical thinking which requires a good basis of intelligence, it is difficult to process and filter information to reach the truth about a subject. I think intellectuals should highlight how insanely difficult it is to avoid falling into a confirmation bias.
Bret was right!
About Ivermectin? Lol okay dude
Yet another discussion that avoids the elephant in the room, people who have already recovered from COVID.
Some people recover from COVID and their antibodies are strong even after many months. Some people recover and they barely have any antibodies.
When he said, maybe you’ll catch it and maybe you’ll be just fine... that kinda counts as mentioning the elephant doesn’t it?
@@DjCringefest maybe, it’s more about openly acknowledging the different risk/reward trade off. I mean, if you haven’t had COVID it’s a real easy decision. Get the damn vaccine. But if you have, it’s not only way different, it’s rarely discussed anywhere which is kind weird right?
@@TheBenjaminsky yes, all we get is crazy rules without reasoning. A vaccine which is the only way out, but you don’t have to take it but you should, although it’s not a must and there are risks but it’s only 1 shot and freedom. Or 2 shots. Maybe 3 probably not. Or more. And that’s how we are stringed along. It is like this here in Europe. In the US. The Aussies went mad. Everything is goldylocks in the rest of the world but we knew that already. The friends I had turn out to be only concerned with themselves or try to explain to me since I no longer have my original dna I am now the legal property of the manufacturer of the vaccin. They don’t have to proof, I should believe them. 👍 I’m literally becoming fokkin autistic thinking about it all. This fokking video app is the only one listening it feels like... but it isn’t.
@@TheBenjaminsky I don't think it's an easy decision if you haven't had covid19. There's risk in taking the vaccine and there's risk in not taking it. Also, if iv is an effective prophylactic and/or treatment, it's definitely something to think about and consider.
Its interesting how Brett took the "Riskier" position, by not following the questionable narrative being forced by main stream forces, and Mr. Logic (Sam) allowed his fear to cloud his reason, and neglected data, and pushed people to take an experimental therapeutic. A really low point in the career of a person who prides himself on logic, but ultimately is just as fallible as the rest of us to fear.
Well said.
Big Pharma was paying him big checks genius lol
As regards truth being "in the middle":
Putin used to say they never invaded Crimea and all such allegations were false, while journalists were reporting Russian tanks entering the country. The aim of Putin was not to completely dismiss the thing, but to instill the doubt that maybe truth was in the middle, that it was not in fact so bad. Many people in Europe believed that truth had to be in between the two narratives. But maybe sometimes truth is not between two narratives, maybe sometimes one of the two choices is clearly better.
I always keep this story in mind when I see smart people which take half of a narrative and half of another.
@@zachhayes9512 My point was more about Putin trying to confound the truth, negating Russian intervention. I am saying it must not be that Putin is 50% correct and opposition is 50% correct. He was lying, those tanks and soldiers were Russian, but many took this 50-50 approach.
@@stenba96 A great analogy. Very well put.
@@quartzparchmentshears8368 im sorry i don't understand the analogy. Who in the interview said the truth is in the middle?
@@rhobx It's the point of the whole video, from the title to the conversation. If you want a more precise reference listen to the answer starting from 3:11. That's what I am taking about.
The truth doesn't lie on a spectrum. This is something people say to keep everybody happy and/or to kill the discussion. The truth lies in the middle is one of the notions floating around and can indeed be used by bad actors to "move the middle" by moving the perceived extreme of one side even further.
“Let people decide.”
Sounds like democracy. How dare you?
Not all conversations are healthy. What’s unhealthy about this debate between pro-vaccination and anti-vaccination is the unwillingness of people on either side to admit that the driving issue is the decline of public trust in the government agencies and private corporations involved in producing and distributing the vaccine. The major institutions of our national civil society have spent decades alienating much of America, and that is now have serious consequences for our ability to respond to crises.
In times like these it's important to compartmentalize.
@@nokeksgiven Yep that one party system is a huge morale killer.
I don't think it's just about lack of trust in public institutions, although that certainly plays a role. Some has to do with the arrogance of a position like Sam Harris touts, that there are no long term side effects for a vaccine that hasn't been around long enough for us to know. You're treating people like idiots at that point, so don't expect them to listen. Couple that with the extremely suspect Fauci, whose track record is abysmal, and you have the makings of a resistance to authority figures. Yes, the groundwork was already laid, but our institutions have not exactly helped with their performance.
@@randylahey8207 very true, and it’s the arrogance of pseudo-intellectual, elitists like Harris and Fauci which have created mistrust in the institutions those people have taken over. It’s all of a piece, after all social institutions aren’t buildings and org charts. They are the people who work in them. My broader point was that it’s not just Harris and Fauci. They are symptomatic of a broader elite class which have alienated the people of this country.
@@theodoremccarthy4438 You can disagree with harris and fauci if you want, but claiming they're pseudointellectual is just objectively wrong. The irony of your assertion is hilarious.
wait... isnt this the "this week in virology guy"? He platformed Peter Dazsak from Eco Health Alliance who played a major role in this entire pandemic... why is this the guy to weigh in?
The “best” data does not suggest the vaccines are the best solution. Monoclonal antibodies are the best solution so far, considering all the variables. Better than that, being a normal bodyweight and a vitamin D level above 50 nanograms per deciliter.
After listening to hours of covid content, this sets the benchmark for logical, rational discussion.
If only it could be the norm rather than the exception!
It’s pretty much a more concise version of Brett’s position.
This is a very thinly veiled logical, rational discussion. The condescending attitude of "Here is the evidence, the pros and cons and you can only see it my way".
It is biased still and does not take in the consequences of putting half the people in unemployment because of a 95%+ survival rate without it.
yeah...imagine if this was on CNN.... no more wars EVER (not being sarcastic !)
@@nova396 true
I have taken all the recommended vaccines. Still managed to get COVID twice. When compared to traditional vaccines these ones leave a lot to be desired.
No but you see you didnt DIE from Covid, so the vaccines worked.
The vaccine isn’t meant for u to not get COVID, it’s to lessen the chance of a severe infection.
Max, stop gas lighting, it was sold as being able to stop transmission so that you wouldn't even get it. They lied, and they knew they were lying when they said it.
@@__-vu8io the media said that, not the papers. That applies to all vaccines (I am in med school, society isnt educated about vaccines very well at all in public schools)
10 months later and who's correct? Well, it ain't Sam.
The problem I have with this answer is it's not about get the vaccine or get the disease. If you get the vaccine, you're still going to get the disease. The mRNA vaccine does not give you the same type of immunity that traditional vaccines do. So, the question about long term effects of the vaccine is still valid.
Exactly my issue that so many keep ignoring..
Difference is do I want to spend weeks in a hospital and long haul effects or do I want to be vaccinated and get a short term illness.
@@KatJ3st I'm not saying you can't make the calculation and determine it's worth it to get the vaccine. Although, unless you're quite old or have a co-morbidity, the chances you're going to be very sick and hospitalized are quite low, so you have a false dichotomy there. That aside, my point is that dismissing the long term side effects argument altogether by saying "we don't know the long term side effects of COVID either", is not a valid refutation. COVID isn't going anywhere, so it's likely we're all going to get the disease. The long term side effects of the disease will be borne out one way or the other. You're adding an extra unknown into the equation by getting the vaccine.
And people don’t seem to want to give any credit to the body’s natural ability to regenerate itself. It’s quite possible long haulers will function normally and it’s also possible there will not be long term effects from the vaccine. Why are we so hell bent on finite ideologies??
Just to play devil's advocate, absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. If you want to play fair in this argument, you have to concede that there is no evidence either way regarding long term effects. That's an entirely different proposition from even implying that you can't make a judgement based on lack of evidence of negative long term effects of a vaccine, which in turn may or may not be more dangerous or likely than the long term effects of having the virus itself, which is an equal unknown.
As the good professor says, it's always good to have a conversation. However, it's imperative that this conversation is 'allowed' to be sufficiently sophisticated in order for us to capture any gaps in our thinking when we're making our calculations.
The problem is also that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection. So, if you're a young person with essentially 0% likelihood of being hospitalized or dying of the disease, why would you introduce the vaccine as an extra variable for the potential of short term OR long term side effects? For somebody under the age of 18, the likelihood of having a serious complication with the vaccine is probably significantly higher than complications from getting COVID based on existing data.
@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 I agree 100%. And this is as clear an example as I can think of that demonstrates the need not just for conversation, but a willingness to accept that this is a complex issue that requires a degree of sophistication in our approach to it that is greater than merely a binary choice informed by some misplaced but otherwise well intentioned moral duty.
To add fuel to the fire of your argument, which appears sound enough to me, this existing data also confirms that having had the disease confers a longer lasting immunity to the virus than the vaccine does alone. This is problematic on many levels, not least of which are the wisdom of vaccinating those already recovered (let alone those demographics at trivial though non-zero risk of serious outcomes), and the very real possibility that naturally acquired immunity through infection may well confer 'better' immunity against variants as those variants inevitably appear, even if that 'better' only manifests itself through being longer lasting. To be clear, there are data that suggest a significant decrease in the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine against the delta variant; I believe that data was published in either The Lancet or the BMJ.
Also, for the avoidance of doubt, I am vaccinated. I'll be 50 in a few months and I'm hardly an athlete so my own calculation, as best as I could determine given the available information, led me to the conclusion that this was the right choice for me, and for me alone.
Check Dr Robert Malone youtube interviews (the inventor of mRNA). He sees several indications the long term adverse effects will emerge.
"If you want to play fair in this argument, you have to concede that there is no evidence either way regarding long term effects." There is actually more than a century of evidence that there are hardly any drugs that you take once or twice that case harm months or years later. I'll bet you can't name a single one. The vaccines would need to be almost magical to be flushed out of your system and yet have left some undetectable long fuse dynamite behind in the body. What would the mechanism be?
@@paulprescod6150 what is the mechanism that leads to severe side effects from vaccines? We probably don't know most of the time because it is inconvenient to actually go looking and study it. I have had ME/CFS for 20 years, which is an umbrella term for unexplained autoimmune/neurological complications and some sufferers are post vaccine, why? Who knows. A lot of the time doctors will just dismiss this type of thing as unrelated and this is the claim of some that is taking place with covid vax. I don't think there is much scientific vigour to really investigate side effects, you can see this with many types of medications.
Not impressed. Why not discuss two medical doctors who treat patients clinically like infectious disease specialists, pulmonary specialists who have different opinions on the topic. Harris really? Who gives a sht what he thinks.
Problem with this answer is that we aren't getting all the information about the vaccines.
@ham burges The problem with the research is it can't possibly include findings regarding longterm effects. I'll take my chances with other proven safe prophylactic measures.
@@Johnbobon What if they never find any long term effects? How long do you want to wait? What about traditional vaccines.. You don't have to choose the newer technology
@@Johnbobon You dont know the long term effects of being infected with covid either. Listen to the whole podcast, I doubt you'd be raising this objection if you had.
@hamburges9647considering we now know the vaccine wasn't tested for prevention a lot of people regret getting the vaccine.
Sam Harris was the guy who, when Biden and Harris took over the White house, tweeted out we now have "grown-ups" in the room🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂...Why would you ever take advice from that guy who obviously has no sound judgment??
For real. Sam Harris is a pompous douche. He showed his true colors during the latest election, just a typical run of the mill partisan hack.
A neuroscientist who thought a man with Alzheimer’s would be a good president.. what an idiot
Facts
Biden and Trump are both human garbage, and so were Bush, Clinton and Obama. There, i said it. I just don't get why america keeps fighting over aids vs cancer, even the most intelligent people are still caught in this treadmill hellhole that is today's politics. I just don''t understand it.
@@d1agram4 Yours is the best comment I’ve seen all year! 👍😆
Is it really your choice when education Institutions and employers require it and fire you.
There's a lot required by employers or else you get fired, can you believe they make me wear clothes? Choices affect others, including the choice to not get vaccinated. There's a reason public schools have a whole vaccine schedule that must be followed to enroll in school, nobody really had a problem with that. If you want to participate in society you should take the minimal risks necessary to reduce your chances of spreading a deadly virus to others.
@@chadingram6390 This would apply to vaccines that stopped the spread. This one does not. See Duke University outbreak. Campus is 98% fully vaxxed, and so was 342 of the 350 infections. Nothing different that what has already been documented in Israel, Uk and Iceland. Everyone needs to be tested...or no one.
@@grimmace1002 I have no issues with that level of testing, but those outbreaks do not invalidate the research that shows the efficacy of the vaccine. You're simply wrong, the research indicates the vaccines reduce shedding time and viral load which is indicative of slowing the spread as seen in other corona virus'
@@chadingram6390 Did this happen before 2020?? I contracted pneumonia from a co-worker but would never "blame" them for spreading it.
It's not as if people do this on purpose. People have lost their minds since Covid became a so called issue considering the WHO shows it's IFR is practically zero for the vast majority of the population.
@@Riosgirl98 5 million dead and counting.
Weinstein bros are on the cutting edge of philosophy and modern critical thinking, Harris is at best a 150 year old dull rusty deadbeat blade…. And obviously I’m using antique as a pejorative, some old things are timeless…
I truly can’t believe he even has a career, his only play is to attack and troll smart people who actually make a contribution like Chomsky. I’ve been both vaccine injured and had one fail, plus worked with an advanced healer who taught most vaccines are trash and bad failed science. Human health is fundamentally based on good nutrition including the full mineral matrix, adequate sunlight, high oxygen, clean water and a healthy environment, balanced emotions, etc in most cases petrochemical pharmacy is rubbish, obviously there are some exceptions where it’s miraculous, like (puffers, insulin, pain killers, antibiotics, etc) but the profit incentive has long eclipsed true healing…. Root causes aren’t addressed and are ACTIVELY avoided by design.
His hand waving compulsory vaccines for him and his students is very concerning to me. This is the heart of the issue; lying about level of safety and effectiveness and then mandatory vaccination…we are in trouble
This did not age well. How many boosters will it take for these vaccines to be "effective"? How safe are the vaccines? We were told these questions had answers,. Turns out those are still good questions. To bad asking them was taboo when it really mattered.
Vincent’s free classes on Virology are a next level world class deep dive into an unseen universe that will blow your mind.
He can't explain how cell cultures with unfiltered fluids prove the existence of the virus. "Unseen" indeed. They've never seen it or any other alleged pathogen.
♥️
How is this logical? Very few who had covid get long covid
The issue people have is because if anybody dies "it's 1 too many". They can't take the idea that there is a true life and death risk with every path, but when presented an option by a supposed authority (government and pharmaceutical scientists) it may be too good to pass up. This only applies for the fearmongering. Those who actually understand the difference in risk (if any) but choose just because they can and it's not as big of a deal, I respect them a little more.
But for the folks who speak of a lack of sympathy for either side entirely should be disqualified from the conversation.
So we are not gonna about how they lied to us all?
So if I understand this right, what they both are agreeing to is the Brett position of giving people an option, rather than the Sam option? This used to be just understood.
Sam also supports giving people an option what?
Presenting both sides isn’t possible with the amount of censorship these days.
Yup. All doctors tend to agree on vaccines when you censor the ones that don’t.
The sad thing is they didn't need to censor. It would still be almost all doctors recommending the vaccine.
@@dinobotpwnz why is the topic so heavily censored then?
Your statement is untrue. You probably haven’t even heard of the Great Barrington declaration I assume? Censorship would be responsible for that.
@@dinobotpwnz the vaccine is completely unnecessary for healthy young adults and children. It shouldn’t be mandated and we shouldn’t be coerced into getting it. A Healthy lifestyle will protect you from the virus infinitely more than an mRNA procedure.
@@user-jp2vj4cc6p The rhetorical progress you made by pointing to a group of epidemiologists who think that the vaccination campaign does societal damage on balance was completely undone by your claim that it is even ineffective on an individual level. Fit infected unvaccinated people have it far worse than fat infected vaccinated people and the studies are unanimous on this.
Lex portrayal of Sam Harris view is so bunk as to have made him lose a big chunk of respect. Sam has never said vaccines are without any negative consequences, he just says their positives outweigh any negatives.
I’m young and healthy and see no reason to social responsibility to be vaccinated as covid still spreads among vaccinated i believe vaccine mandates are a bad idea
Just realised I wrote this with incorrect grammar my apologies
I personally don’t think anyone owes a responsibility to people that can’t be responsible for themselves. Not all of the co-morbidities associated with hospitalization and death from Covid can be helped but a lot of them can. In the same way a lot of the people who are in the serious risk category can’t help themselves but a lot of them can by eliminating these co-morbidities. Particularly ones associated with weight issues and smoking. Your personal health is your responsibility and no one else’s. If others do not want to exercise responsibility for their health and thus find themselves at higher risk of death or hospitalization; it is not my responsibility to get vaccinated for their sake (assuming the vaccine stopped the spread which you pointed out it doesn’t). I quit smoking, I run, I lift, I diet, and I’ve lost 42lbs and dropped from an obese 30% body fat to an athletic 14% since Covid started. Actually just 20 weeks. I also supplement vitamin D, K and C amongst many other vitamins and take regular blood tests as well as Covid tests. It’s very doable and you don’t need to be lex or David Goggins to do it. I take responsibility for my health very seriously. If others do not I should not shoulder that responsibility as well. Now as for those that can’t help being in the high risk category that is a different argument sure. But in a nation with an obesity problem like America, a whole lot of people can help themselves first and foremost before they start demanding others be responsible for them.
@@Paul_White I couldn’t have put it better myself, I live in Ireland where covid isn’t nearly as bad as America as population density is so low, I have been exercising rigorously and taking 6 different vitamins/ supplements I got covid and was better in 3 days. terrible to see people who are so pro vax they call rational reasoning anti vax it’s the same with politics your on one side of the fence with one team if your not on that side your the “other”. I don’t think I should be forced to be vaccinated to have my liberties as they say I’m putting others at risk and from what evidence I have seen there’s nothing to suggest being vaccinated helps stop the spread
How do we have evidence of the long term effects of cvd? Does 2 yrs qualify as long term? Are we even doing any meaningful, comprehensive study of that? There is certainly evidence of serious complications from the vxn that, based on the reactions, are likely to persist into the long term. Ultimately, it’s a question of intentionally introducing a risk vs. taking a chance on prevention. Everyone should have the right to do their own risk/benefit analysis. Side note: I’m unclear why Sam Harris’s opinion on health issues should matter to me.
Not to mention the fact that the vaccine has been going through trials since as far back as at least April 2020, so we only really have a couple more months of covid data compared to vaccine data.
@@alicedoors4826 And the fact that we have a biodistribution study that literally contradicts what the "experts" say about the components of the jab just staying in the area of inoculation. Also the fact that big pharma and big gov has ZERO LIABILITY if ever anything happens to the patients.
Because permanent damage to your organs is a long term effect.
@@shiftgood And what damage to organs is SARS-CoV-2 doing in the bodies of young healthy people that successfully fight off the virus?
True, no one should take Sam Harris' word on it. It's a good time to ask your GP (with an MD) whom you trust and is responsible for your health care.
What evidence of long term risks of getting infected do we have? With it being novel, how is that possible? Generally, vaccines take years, which provides time to observe long term effects, as well as long term effects of treatments. The virus has been claimed a natural occurence without evidence. Approval has been dictated by politics, by the authority that is funded by the industry itself. Everyone should be able to make their own decisions, but the question is, are those decisions based upon personal health vs personal politics?
Brett Weinstein is also critical of the profit motive behind pushing privately owned vaccines, as well Brett is concerned about the institutional capture by Pharma of govt. and by #followthescience people in our national health orgs. How these two two valences are currently dovetailing in our political economic moment provides sufficient signals that, in fact, most evidence about covid and the vaccines is ignored and instead we are being pushed to do things based on ideologies.
Well put. It’s not even a conversation in my mind at this point. It shouldn’t be so hard to speak clearly in a way that makes everyone understand the problem if you aren’t lying.
+1up
Yeah true, but this doesn't mean you shouldn't get V_A_X_E_D
@@cabudagavin3896 doesn't mean you should either.
@@cabudagavin3896 Typically, the advice is to not be controlled by gaslighters. To each their own 🤷♂️
Whatever Sam and Bret's disagreements, I have become very disillusioned with Bret. He has become dismissive of the gold standard in trials (RCTs, randomized controlled trials) and is pushing meta-analyses combining oodles of poor studies and weak evidence in their place. He has gripped onto Ivermectin and vaccine "skepticism", and can't let go of it. Even as a cornerstone study for the efficacy of ivermectin that he pushed hard was withdrawn, he still persists with diminished evidence and no well run, randomized controlled trials, establishing Ivermectins efficacy. In fact he has kind of attacked RCTs altogether and seems to be suggesting that a meta-analysis of flawed, poor studies is more definitive. No, it's not.
Quantum Physics establishes how nature works, it is not subject to mans beliefs. RCT can be a very useful tool but there are so many other factors at play which. Everything that has been implemented in he last year, that the media, government, has recommended goes against our nature, Bret's skeptism i think personally is warranted after everything that has been recommended.
Discussing the risks of taking ivermectin(spoiler there are no risks)... wowzers
didn't age well
"You're a smart person" What do you base that statement on? And this conversation barely scratched the surface as to the solid reasons not to get vaccinated. Not the least of which are the short and long range effects of the vaccine, which are unknown. Their conversation was based on assumptions. The facts about covid and the pandemic may not come to light for years. 75 years is my guess.
Can we elect this guy, the most sensible dialogue in a world of madness and disorder
Which guy?
@@ezekielbrockmann114 Lex lol
Seriously?
Didn't age well for sam harris
I thought that was very wishy washy statement from a person who is supposed to be an "expert" in this field. Give me something to hang my hat on, please! Is the damn thing safe?
Even if's efficacy isn't that great, if it's safe that's a pretty good place to start a discussion with.
@@nokeksgiven Nonsense. That guy had nothing to say, somebody off the street could have said exactly the same thing, so I don't accept your take in this context. I'm not looking for an "easy answer", I'm looking for an "informed opinion" from an expert, and he didn't want to go anywhere near that question. And in general, he was one of the least compelling guests that Lex has had on.
@@nokeksgiven hmmm yes yesss and while he discusses it very rationally, students will be forced to get the vax or unenroll in his university... Hmm yess yesss very rational and level-headed mmm yes yesss
It is safe compared to the risk of catching Covid unvaccinated; relative risk.
@@entropyincrease864 The covid vaccine? Link please?
You're absolutely correct. He wanted to stay away from this discussion and didn't want to get hate mail from either side so decided to go this middle of the road BS and for some reason all the dude bros in the comment section think he's some model of courage and reason.
Checking in, how did this age?
I have a legit question that nobody is talking about. I'm a paramedic and have been exposed to Covid since the beginning. I was sick early last year and have not been sick since and I have been exposed constantly. I do ventilator patients with confirmed covid in an enclosed space/ambulance for over 2 hours. Is it possible that I/we have built natural immunity? Out of 100+ employees in my station only one person has been critical and he was not in good health before this.
GREAT QUESTION!!!;)
Yes, if you got covid(which sounds highly likely) you do have immunity. Not only that you have natural immunity which is 7 to 13 times stronger than that that's offered by the vaccines. There was a large study out of Israel about it recently.
@@dave9547 Thanks for the answer. How do you feel about the new bill that's mandating the vaccine for any company that has more than 100 employees? Which would be all first responders.
Besides volunteers.
I am not an anti-vaxxer. I am trying yo understand why we are forcing people who have the antibodies to get the vaccine.
It's not a vaccine.
AMEN !!
what is the definition of a vaccine?
@@cabudagavin3896 I would define a vaccine as something that gives you immunity to infection of a specific disease. This does not do that at all for anybody that gets it. It's a therapeutic medication to reduce symptoms from infection.
There are no vaccines for viruses, there never have been.
@@miller-joel as long as the change in definition was a good one its all good
There was zero probability that I would submit to the vax. Natural immunity option was always a no brainer
Sam's type in govt will just forcibly inject you in the future.
Vincent seems entirely ignorant about politics and economics. This holds true from my experience at a major R1 STEM university where gen Ed classes outside the STEM curriculum were treated with contempt. Which meant most graduates we're leaving highly educated about STEM subjects but we're pulling things out of their a$# any time they spoke about politics or economics -- but with great confidence that they knew what they were talking about. Think of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Seems like you have a hatred for STEM subjects. The reason why gen Ed classes are treated with contempt is because they literally have 0 problem solving. You can write about your opinions all day in gen Ed classes, but it doesn't really do anything. With STEM, you are actually solving issues. Politics and Economics is just business and that means extorting/manipulating people to your benefit.
@@figmaster51 your comment is so intelligent. It makes me feel good knowing that there are actually some reasonable people in this world
@@noire.blackheartyou are being too extreme. Non-STEM courses need to be reformed, but they aren’t worthless. If anything, they are some of the most important courses you can take. We need balance. The issue is that right now we have idiots dominating the non-STEM fields.
@@figmaster51 ignorant masses are a bigger threat than intelectuals.
@@noire.blackheart PhD is a philosophy doctorate. Are you saying that a well trained PhD lacks any skills for political and social problem solving? Logic? Scientific methods? Socratic reasoning? No PhD has these skills?.... or do we just hand the world over to Engineers -- who may have a tertiary understanding of Makaveli, at best? are these our new philosopher kings?
I have officially lost all respect for Sam Harris
Jeeez -- dumbest of all takes. Middle of the road non-committal BS and everyone here is like THIS GUY IS SO COURAGEOUS AND SMART PLEASE LOVE ME.
This clip convinced me not to take the shot.
If this clip convinced you of anything you are either an idiot or a liar or both.
What is he on about? He said something like; "We don't know the longterm effects of the vaccine, but we do know the longterm effects about covid, which is bad.". That's just false information, or have we suddenly changed our perception so that two years is considered longterm now? Both covid-19 and the vaccines are novel, so we have no idea how they will affect us in the long run.
He's in the middle, pointing out the flaws with both, but Bret would be very happy with this response whereas Sam would release a 90 minute podcast full of passive aggressive attempts at reputation destruction.
I agree, can’t believe Harris can make a living being so out of touch.
"Here's all the data we have available. Decide for yourself." would be fully consistent with Bret's position. Sam's position is shut up, take it, and ignore anyone who presents any evidence that doesn't support taking it.
People are very quick to call the vaccine “completely safe, and effective.” As someone who has been watching closely, Bret’s concerns should not be swept under the rug just because IVM doesn’t work as well as the vaccine. Regulatory capture is his overarching concern throughout a lot of this debacle.
Who says it doesn’t work as well? You need to look up the med kit given to the Indian kit in the state of uttar predesh. 201 million people and 26 infections reported in one day. And they are like 2-3% vaccinated. Go look at the big spike on the charts for them and understand that the big drop was one or two weeks after dispensing IVM along with some other things. Don’t believe me though you go dig for yourself.
Look up Dr Peter McCullough and watch his studies on early treatment with mono antibodies , steroids , as well as ivermectin , hydoxicloriquin , and others. The magic is Zink , but we can't get zink into the cells without a carrier , like IVM or HDQ . Early treatment is more effective that vaccines , and it's safe. These drugs have been safe and over the counter for 65 years , up until Trump said that they where effective . Then people lost their shit and have been trying to silence anyone that suggest that early treatment is effective and successfully prevented deaths
th-cam.com/video/xWBC-JX6lsg/w-d-xo.html
@mastercilander deferential to inferiors? what?
Based on some renowned philosophers and psychologists, how this event is playing out has more to do with the fact that in the pre covid era, we lived in an illusion of abundance created by a furious pace of our lives. Western civilization as a whole lost touch with meaning barried in an endless easy gratification while exhausted by its creation. Covid created division in people hypnotized and at any cost tring to get back to the "norm" while the vacine is giving them a sense of superiority by virtuosity of their deed for good of humanity while looking down at "antivaxers" as the less ideal race. History is repeating 1939 era but at a much grander scale. We just don't see it due to the mass psychosis effect. This is trully terrifying.
Brett wins this argument free
No need for anyone to have another conversation with Weinstein (except maybe law enforcement). He's proven himself to be just another grifting TH-camr peddling his malignant disinformation to thousands of naive followers, some even DYING from his negligent advice....To be clear, even the manufacturer (Merck) has specifically warned the public that Ivermectin should not be used as a treatment for Covid. The very company that could make billions from its sale....
A note from his many cult members who he victimized: "Bret, you were dead (literally) wrong, but we still love you!"
@@miller-joel Excellent!.... a Bret the Fraud fan appears right on time. I'm sure there will be more. Merck was completely fine with what exactly? It's use as a Covid treatment? You, of course, are wrong. They've already publicly denounced it as such. As far as profit-making... Merck (while still owning the patent) donated - that's right Donated - billions of doses of Ivermectin (a broad spectrum anti-parasitic which helps treat river blindness) and saved the sight of tens of millions of people. A UNESCO report from 2005 states, "The progress that has been made in combating the disease (river blindness) represents on the most triumphant public health campaigns ever waged in the developing world." So.... did they make a profit at one time or another on Ivermectin? Sure. But they also sacrificed billions in profits when they chose to donate to humanity. Any other questions?
@@miller-joel You wouldn't believe it if I told you..... crazy $. Ha!
@@greggibson33 Merck warning the public not to take ivermectin as treatment literally proves nothing unless they have data on the safety profile that says it's not safe to take. Again we can argue the motives of what's going on but ivermectin given its current data has been very safe ever since its use decades ago. Just because it's being used for COVID it doesn't mean that there are new adverse effects especially if the dosage is within the standard/safe dose of IVM. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of the drug doesn't change just because Merck said so because WE KNOW what the drug does to the body and vice versa. Where are the data that said it's not safe? Also IVM is off-patent meaning that no one company can own the production of a certain drug so no Merck wouldn't make billions off of it because production would be distributed between ALL pharma companies. You're another case of blind faith in the wrong authorities and possibly an emotional and political ego coming into play here. Btw many countries have already adopted the use of ivm so I guess they're all crazy too right? Very obvious you know NEXT TO ZERO when it comes to medicine and public health. Your whole argument is argument in bad faith. I can't even believe the amount BS you're spewing. If you think you're on the right side just because your MSM tells you, think again. Maybe some introspection will help clear up your brain fog. Also I've been vaxxed and I recommend it to people but I agree with Bret in his stance of NOT FORCING anyone to take it. Go back to Sam Seder and/or Sam Harris
@@samme79 Respectfully, I believe you misinterpreted my statements. (How unusual, people misinterpreting others in comment sections, that never happens.) I never stated that IVM was in and of itself unsafe to take, what IS unsafe is taking it as a SUBSTITUTE for the vaxx. I assumed that was understood. That also goes in line with you assuming I think many countries adopting IVM are crazy. (Your words, not mine). If there is credible evidence anywhere in the world where IVM has a higher efficacy rate than the vaxx, then I'm all ears. (I already know that's not the case, but I thought it would be polite to ask). Also to your specious Seder/Harris remark (insinuating I'm a true follower). I'm not a frequent visitor but from what I've seen and heard....it's a lot safer for my health than Bret's world.
What evidence of long term effects of covid?
This is exactly the approach I was begging for: pros/cons you decide. The amount of authoritarianism rampant in each side is disgusting
Only one side is authoritarian. The other is pro choice.
Both side? Where are the anti VA mandates?
@@goprojoe7449 Look up "authoritarian personality"
A hell of a lot of people opposing this vaccine are authoritarian followers. Their leaders have convinced them that everyone else is lying or sheep. It is an age old tactic of grifters, demagogues, and preachers.
Yeah, "both sides", but not remotely to the same extent.
@@travcollier also, plenty of anti vaxxers are still pro drug war etc
@@pandafox12 how is the anti vaccine mandate crowd authoritarian?
>it's up to you, you don't have to get vaccinated
Wrong, bucko. It's not up to you, and you do have to get vaccinated.
-Joe
My dad has all his covid shots and still got COVID while diabetic. Pretty bad of course I got it too but it was almost nothing to me but affected him greatly.
He would have died without it
Seems like Sam Harris is not infallible.
Sam Harries finally found his god.
Lol
Sadly, he's shown before that his religion is 'Government'.
Like all religions, he thinks everyone should just believe in it rather than question it - except him of course, if/when he deems fit.
@@marmun1 Do you have a source where he said this?
He is usually a guy with integrity and is smart,maybe he sold out due to age.
@@hieroprotoganist3440 At the very beginning of this video he's quoted, by the presenter, as effectively saying that "any distraction from the need to get vaccinated puts blood on your hands" and "now is not the time to be asking questions". I regard his definition of 'distraction' as being anything that questions its need, efficacy and/or safety of the jabs.
th-cam.com/video/-ROQLOWados/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgypAX-VNsVDUjO5hQl4AaABAg.9RWMPiZ21x-9SdJop2Gdqo
I have heard him express similar sentiments elsewhere but this was the first one I found without having to trawl through many hours of podcasts.
I too, always thought of him as a guy with integrity but that may be because I hold his same views on religion.
Since those early days, I have found him to be quite dishonest on several occasions during debates that question 'government' and I have stopped listening to him. (e.g. war on terror, 9/11). I accept that I might be missing out on some gems but I cannot abide such blatant hypocrisy.
It isn't his views about government policy that I regard as being dishonest - even if I don't share them. Those are just his opinions which should be respected.
No. it's his unwavering disdain for the questioning of anything that he does not WANT to believe - followed by dishonestly claiming that his view has been 'proven' to be true when it clearly never has been.
That surprised me.
In searching for a source as you requested, I also came across an idiotic question he asked on his twitter feed. "What if the Unvaccinated Can’t Be Persuaded?".
To which Weinstein replied:
"You don’t need to persuade me. I just need 3 things:
1. A vaccine with clear net benefit to society and an acceptable cost/benefit ratio for individuals
2. An independent and competent public health/safety assessment system with reasonable stopping conditions
3. Informed consent".
It's a variation of the same question Sam has been asked on countless occasions about what would it take for him to believe that there is a God. All atheists can provide many answers and the religious have no problem asking. However, when the same question is asked of them: "What would it take for you believe that there is NO God", they never have an answer and often become dismissive about being expected to even discuss the question.
Similarly, I have to conclude that there is nothing that could make Sam shake his belief about this subject.
Sam's nonsense like "The Case for Getting Vaccinated Is Absolutely Clear Cut" is about as valid as "The Science of Climate Change has been settled". Both are far from 'Clear Cut'.
@@marmun1 Thanks for these details. I quit on Sam Harris last year. My take is this: he's made the mistake of tying his family's financial well-being to his success at being a certain "Sam Harris". Now he has to be that certain Sam Harris . . . no matter what. That's a bad situation to be in . . .
The real issue here is SAM REFUSING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT W/BRETT &Heather, &is misrepresenting their views &reasoning - assigning false motives for why they disagree w/this "vax all/only" approach. I always knew Sam was an elitist snob, but thought he was intellectually honest &morally consistent; however, his hypocrisy on this &his treatment of his former friends/ colleagues has lost me completely. It's just too good that he whinges endlessly when his enemies even _marginally_ misrepresent him & then faults them for not publicly hashing it out to correct the record; yet, when Brett asks that he extend them the same curteousy, he's repeatedly declined to even discuss it privately whilst continueing the slander!
Indeed, Sam the hypocrite. This is not news for me. I have already noticed how he is very cosmopolitan and for the open borders, in USA. But for Israel, actually a Zionist. Nothing strange about that, looking after his own people first. But there's a lesson here, that people who preach universalist values, only want you to believe that, but they act in their own self interest.
That's a healthy approach to a situation like this.
Firing people who don't take the vaccine?
@@flipjetiel7343 not at all.
@@dimensionalidad9859 That's what Racaniello's uni does.
Well we’ve learned a lot in this past year concerning vaccines and the pros and cons haven’t we?
Yep, good approach. I haven't always come at it like this I must be honest. A lesson learnt here.
I haven't been vaccinated because because I have concerns about it but but that was the best pro vaccine argument I've heard from anyone
I've heard it put this way: you have a date with COVID, so you get to decide how you want to face it. It is going to enter your body. It just is. It's a good time to ask your GP and consider their advice.
You have concerns about vaccines put not covid? lol okay
@@AlanDantes76 lol I made that comment so long ago but yes I'm even less for the covid vaccine now because time has shown that there is almost no upside as far as protection goes not to mention any potential side effects that are occurring or might occur in the future
@@jamescrosby3105 That's simply an inaccurate statement. Science shows the vaccines are highly effective at preventing serious illness and hospitalization from covid. To say there is "almost no upside as far as protection" is severely delusional.
This perspective gives me hope.
Make a decision. Make your decision. You can’t talk long term, because we don’t know long term.
99.8% survival rate. GET A GRIP. The delta is more catchy but not more deadly unless YOU HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.
Demand ivermectin or HCQ from government and stop BIG PHARMA from making sick people for profits and of course stop Gates from Depopulating us all
It will be a relief when it becomes common knowledge to Americans, (already known to Europe and Israel and Duke University) that the vaccine does NOT prevent infection. Then this issue of mandates and potential harm to others will be moot.
We all know that, booster 1, 2, 3,... It does not work. But it's about following authority, perceived authority. They could say any nonsense as long as they dress it up in scientific language and threaten with making people loose their jobs, or go to camp in Australia...
Brett's right.
Yeah, he is one of the middle school teachers who's always right. And the less he knows the more this applies also for his fans btw
@@davidw8668 who is yeah?
@@paulwolf8444 yeah is brett😅 cause he s always right
I tend to align more with Bret.... And it seems to be because I calculate risk/benefit over time. And with that I am forced to make some assumptions about what the vaccine will do over time. I assuredly will be wrong about them, but I have to make some type of prediction. For most people 40 and older (maybe younger) if you only look at the data right now, I think it makes a lot of sense to get the vaccine. But that's just not how my brain looks at it.
I live in NYC and I am vaccinated. Having said that, coercion isn’t persuasive. Neither is hysteria. Neither are stupid conspiracy theories. It’s too bad that this mans advice isn’t the norm.
two sheep in a meadow
Can we also talk about how to prevent from happening something like this again? E.g. Gain of function research? Yes or No? Fundings for alternative medicine and tests, not just vax or no vax.
Wonder who was responsible for that gain of function research 😒 Could it have been Fouci ? It's all highly suspicious to me
But then how will they take total control without the fear of some never before seen virus THEY created?
@@landonjackson3064 Fauci and Daszak (friends of Racaniello's TWIV podcast) both enabled the GoF research that might have caused this mess.
What is the risk % of getting really sick compared to the regular influenza? Hmmmmmmmm????? No thanks to the jab.
Comments here seem to ignore that "Employers" are the enforcement mechanism in this case. Not govt.
@@miller-joel Name some.
@@miller-joel Crickets!. How do you live with your loser self?
@@miller-joel lol you lose
Sam Harris is a beta
This man's opinion used to be common sense and something we all knew until yesterday.
Fear is the mind killer.
The biggest question I have and can't find an answer is; Was there any vaccines developed using the mRNA technology before the Covid-19 vaccines?
yes, there was one
@@towntwo451 ?