Even disregarding the last ability, the fact that you don’t have to wait for combat on your turn to get the counters where you want them is absolutely worth an extra two mana CMC
You mention this being similar to Ozolith, but if my experience with Modern Hardened Scales translates the same way, this combos with Ozolith to essentially double the counters from the permanent that left the battlefield. This is because the Ozolith doesn’t physically move the counters from the permanent onto itself. In the right deck, you can basically buff entire boards with tons of counters on all your creatures.
@@TheUnderJaker This is the assumption but Ozolith actually creates counters of each kind of the card it’s looking at. This is because after state-based actions are checked and the card triggers, the counters are not on the card to be moved. This is why Modern Hardened Scales works. You can put counters on the Ozolith from a creature that had Modular AND trigger Modular, essentially doubling counters. This is literally the first ruling on Ozolith’s gatherer page.
@@TheUnderJaker "those counters" is describing the counters you put on Ozolith as the same types and numbers of counters. It is not saying physically the same counters. Like if a creature says put a +1/+1 counter on target creature it doesn't have to have a counter to move onto that creature. But if a creature says move that counter it has to have one to shift over.
Yeah, I play a Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider deck as my first and by far longest running deck in EDH. The Ozilith absolutely allows you to double up all on its lonesome. The only time I really bother aiming to Octuple up, though, is when I drift into Bant to screw around with Sage of Hours and Magistrate’s Scepter.
Also with this you could theoretically move shield counters onto artifacts and enchantments, that way if you really want some to big to stick it’s even harder to remove
The best commander that this card is absolutely beautiful for is Kathril, the Aspect Warper because you can move keyword counters onto whatever pernament you need. Imagine being able to put indestructible and hexproof counters in your best extender.
I think you can move your counters when things die onto this enchantment itself. Then, if your opponents destroy it, you can move them off the enchantment. You could even destroy/bounce/flicker it yourself as a way to get a "pseudo activation" of that 5 mana ability.
Looks like it'll work well with white/green decks if I'm honest. Off my head I can't remember what the creature is called but for 5 mana it doubles the amount of counters on it. Shift them onto it, double the number and away you go
Death's Approach is already broken with The Ozolith. Resourceful Defense is just completely nuts with it. Example Boardstate: Selesnya Sacrifice 1 x Death's Approach 1 x Resourceful Defense 1 x Ashnod's Altar 1 x Sigil Captain 1 x Herd Baloth 1 x Anointed Procession 1 x Hardened Scales 1 x (cast) Nomad's Assembly I've gotten almost exactly this boardstate before, but with The Ozolith. This is a devastating card to add to that deck because not only can you get an infinitely large Herd Baloth (as in a normal Death's Approach deck) you can now, at instant speed, decide that that unblocked 1/1 is now a 600/600. Just thinking of the awful nature of running this in a Bant token shell for those one-off blue unblockable creatures is enough to give me heart palpitations. But that's not even scratching the surface of what this thing can do. As he said, all kinds of counters get put there, and you can totally use that for sagas... And a couple of old enchantments called Myth Realized and Mind Unbound and an artifact called Scroll of the Masters. This is a little silly at this point, but here we are.
Honestly I think it might be better than the ozilith imo. It's not colorless, it costs more, sure, but seriously it moves those counters onto a permanent right away, and has the activated ability that moves counters around
The biggest issue with this card is its in white. Red and black have commanders like the Scorpion God who can really fuck up an opponent's board while grinding value with it but its not in the colours for it.
This isn't strictly true, luckily. Yes, the act of removing a counter does not cause the ability to trigger, but "A chapter ability is a triggered ability that triggers when a lore counter that is put on the Saga causes the number of lore counters on the Saga to become equal to or greater than the ability’s chapter number." This means that if you, for instance, strip a Showdown of the Skalds to 0 counters, when it gets the first lore counter placed on it, you'll impulse draw another four cards.
@@RGMtz99 I’m a bit confused as to how anyone got the notion from reading the rules sagas cannot go off again. If you remove the counters and it gets back to the same tier what could possibly stop them from retriggering.
@@regaleagle6533 that’s not what I meant, The Eloquent Elephant that commented in this same thread and made a lot more sense. What I, and I assume(?) the original comment meant is that if you remove a counter it won’t retrigger the previous ability. Elephant made it clear that it would trigger the following ability the next turn since it would gain the counter again. Sorry for the confusion
This combos with the ozolith. You get double counters on it if you target the ozolith. Look at the gatherer ruling it boils down to the ozolith CREATING those counters rather than them being moved to it😹
![ILLSLICK - THE KING'S LANDING [Freestyle]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/feIJJnNkTfk/mqdefault.jpg)
Even disregarding the last ability, the fact that you don’t have to wait for combat on your turn to get the counters where you want them is absolutely worth an extra two mana CMC
This is nice. It'll let you store your counters on a land, making those counters even harder to get rid of
You mention this being similar to Ozolith, but if my experience with Modern Hardened Scales translates the same way, this combos with Ozolith to essentially double the counters from the permanent that left the battlefield. This is because the Ozolith doesn’t physically move the counters from the permanent onto itself. In the right deck, you can basically buff entire boards with tons of counters on all your creatures.
No it wouldn’t. Both cards say “those counters” meaning it moves the counters that were on the card.
@@TheUnderJaker This is the assumption but Ozolith actually creates counters of each kind of the card it’s looking at. This is because after state-based actions are checked and the card triggers, the counters are not on the card to be moved. This is why Modern Hardened Scales works. You can put counters on the Ozolith from a creature that had Modular AND trigger Modular, essentially doubling counters.
This is literally the first ruling on Ozolith’s gatherer page.
@@TheUnderJaker "those counters" is describing the counters you put on Ozolith as the same types and numbers of counters. It is not saying physically the same counters. Like if a creature says put a +1/+1 counter on target creature it doesn't have to have a counter to move onto that creature. But if a creature says move that counter it has to have one to shift over.
Yeah, I play a Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider deck as my first and by far longest running deck in EDH. The Ozilith absolutely allows you to double up all on its lonesome.
The only time I really bother aiming to Octuple up, though, is when I drift into Bant to screw around with Sage of Hours and Magistrate’s Scepter.
I appreciate this short format really much.
Also with this you could theoretically move shield counters onto artifacts and enchantments, that way if you really want some to big to stick it’s even harder to remove
The best commander that this card is absolutely beautiful for is Kathril, the Aspect Warper because you can move keyword counters onto whatever pernament you need. Imagine being able to put indestructible and hexproof counters in your best extender.
I think you can move your counters when things die onto this enchantment itself. Then, if your opponents destroy it, you can move them off the enchantment. You could even destroy/bounce/flicker it yourself as a way to get a "pseudo activation" of that 5 mana ability.
*thinks about the horror of Dark Depths*
Looks like it'll work well with white/green decks if I'm honest. Off my head I can't remember what the creature is called but for 5 mana it doubles the amount of counters on it. Shift them onto it, double the number and away you go
I've pre-ordered brokers and the riveters. Can't wait for them to arrive
Death's Approach is already broken with The Ozolith. Resourceful Defense is just completely nuts with it.
Example Boardstate:
Selesnya Sacrifice
1 x Death's Approach
1 x Resourceful Defense
1 x Ashnod's Altar
1 x Sigil Captain
1 x Herd Baloth
1 x Anointed Procession
1 x Hardened Scales
1 x (cast) Nomad's Assembly
I've gotten almost exactly this boardstate before, but with The Ozolith. This is a devastating card to add to that deck because not only can you get an infinitely large Herd Baloth (as in a normal Death's Approach deck) you can now, at instant speed, decide that that unblocked 1/1 is now a 600/600.
Just thinking of the awful nature of running this in a Bant token shell for those one-off blue unblockable creatures is enough to give me heart palpitations.
But that's not even scratching the surface of what this thing can do. As he said, all kinds of counters get put there, and you can totally use that for sagas... And a couple of old enchantments called Myth Realized and Mind Unbound and an artifact called Scroll of the Masters.
This is a little silly at this point, but here we are.
Honestly I think it might be better than the ozilith imo. It's not colorless, it costs more, sure, but seriously it moves those counters onto a permanent right away, and has the activated ability that moves counters around
The biggest issue with this card is its in white. Red and black have commanders like the Scorpion God who can really fuck up an opponent's board while grinding value with it but its not in the colours for it.
I think it's better than the Ozolith because of the "leave the battlefield".
The permanents could be blinked or brought back from the graveyard.
So you can ult a saga as it etb with this? Damn!
Or get perpetual destruction/other effects by removing the lore counters before the last one is put up
Im super excited for this card dj. Im running out of ozoliths.
I never even thought about lore and loyalty counters... 👀
Geez, I remember ozolith being pretty cheap not too long ago
It’s already at $30 because of this video :/
......moving counters won't retrigger sagas. Each ability can only trigger once.
I was gonna say this too, you can only really add counters to speed sagas up, but not retrigger them by removing counters
This isn't strictly true, luckily. Yes, the act of removing a counter does not cause the ability to trigger, but "A chapter ability is a triggered ability that triggers when a lore counter that is put on the Saga causes the number of lore counters on the Saga to become equal to or greater than the ability’s chapter number." This means that if you, for instance, strip a Showdown of the Skalds to 0 counters, when it gets the first lore counter placed on it, you'll impulse draw another four cards.
@@RGMtz99 I’m a bit confused as to how anyone got the notion from reading the rules sagas cannot go off again. If you remove the counters and it gets back to the same tier what could possibly stop them from retriggering.
@@regaleagle6533 that’s not what I meant, The Eloquent Elephant that commented in this same thread and made a lot more sense. What I, and I assume(?) the original comment meant is that if you remove a counter it won’t retrigger the previous ability. Elephant made it clear that it would trigger the following ability the next turn since it would gain the counter again. Sorry for the confusion
@@RGMtz99 ah that makes sense yeah the timing is just you get the bonuses when it’s coming not going.
Good tech for Triad of Fate
This combos with the ozolith. You get double counters on it if you target the ozolith. Look at the gatherer ruling it boils down to the ozolith CREATING those counters rather than them being moved to it😹
Thank you dawg! Using it for my athreos shroud veiled deck over the ozolith actually
About the only thing it can't do is go in my Animar +1/+1 Counters deck.
Putting them all on a small double striker 👍
That's wild
Would this work with Elenda?
That’s really cool!
Atraxa is waiting
Wait so does this mean undying becomes infinite?
This is an auto include in my Osgir modular deck !
Does that mean I can put -1/-1 counters on noncreature permanents?
Yup
Ozolith is up to twenty bucks? Holy crap iv got like a stack of them 🤣
Would you mind, uh, donating a few of them to me?
Buff kathril
Tayam EDH players have more goodies
Im gonna move loyalty counters on my creatures so they dont leave me 🥲