Ever since he introduced the concept to me with his videos, I've been wondering about all the possibilities. I would honestly love if he made a video dedicated to the subject. It's a very different way to build decks from the standard "engine in the command zone", and I'd love to hear some insight
@@filippomilan2656And on the flipside of all that, I’m off in my corner building a Necroblossom deck where it’s still an engine card, but only as a means to get stuff in the yard faster. It’s not land loop goodstuff, it’s a crossbreed of blink and reanimation
@@filippomilan2656 My second video on this channel was all about that concept, but that video was both short and *very* early in the channel. I may come back to it at some point for a full visit.
Same here, though I don't believe I have enough experience to build an effective counterweight commander, especially when it comes to understanding the greater meta of the commander format.
Hi. Tergrid player here. I see your argument, and I made a Tergrid Group Hug deck. The whiplash people experience when I express this is "chef's kiss" great. No mass sacrifice. No hellbent opponents. Group hug draws. Howling Mine. Font of Mythos. Seizan. Peer Into the Abyss targeting an opponent. We fatten this pig before we slaughter it with a wheel effect.
How do you get people to agree to play against it? Usually when someone whips out Tergrid i'm like, "okay here we go... hopefully this will be an example of why no one wants to play against it". Lots of people just say no.
@@joshbowdish9851 I say I made Tergrid Group Hug, and the rule 0 conversation ensues from there. Usually, fanning out the deck and letting people look through it is enough to get people's interest piqued.
Madness is my favorite mechanic in magic. It feels like I'm a mad doctor of some kind burning through my mind to gain an advantage and destroy my enemies.
"make your deck a bossfight/puzzle" is a pretty good idea for casual. you have to keep your weaknesses in mind, and lean into them, don't just shore them up and optimize out of things.
"Finding new and fresh ways to play will always be a big goal for me in edh" I really appreciate this sentiment. I have been exploring some more unique and interesting commander options lately and am also trying to branch out into different playstyle vibes. As a follow up to the topic: When exploring or considering new decks or playstyles, how do you make sure that they are still fun for your opponents to play against? You talked about that some in this video, but I think there's a lot of nuance to be had in that discussion. I'm interested to hear your thoughts about it!
I always like it when my mid-power decks feel "fair" (giving plenty of opportunities for response), and I mostly try to build decks that focus on being grindy and resilient rather than being fiercely proactive. Beyond that, it's a matter of playstyle. I like to be open about what my deck is doing, and I try to make it clear that I'm not trying to ruin anybody's day. I frequently play decks with stax-y elements or removal engines, which can make people salty at times, so I try to pair that with a style of table engagement that is light, even-handed, and accepting of any hate or attacks my deck might attract.
@@salubrioussnail Thanks for the response! I agree that commander is best when people are being socially interactive as well as mechanically interactive, even if some of the mechanical tension bleeds into the social tension. Not taking things personally is important as well. I asked the question because I was looking at building a Flubs, the Fool deck with the focus of topdeck spellslinging into storm cards for wins. I realized pretty quickly that it sounds like a nightmare to play against, similar to the non-deterministic Nadu turns which you've spoken about before. I'm pivoting into a more generic landfall deck with opportunities for players to better disrupt the gameplan. But it started a deep dive in my brain into the topic. At the end of all this I think I am placing a bigger emphasis on my own deckbuilding on having some kind of interaction present in every deck, even if it isn't the decks primary focus. But, like you shared in this video, interaction can be a lot more than just removing permanents. Pressure can be put on opponents in a number of ways, and I'm starting to understand better the value of building into less conventional ways of doing so.
I think part of that vibe is very much in how it feels for the opponent. If you're in a topdeck war where in the long run you're likely going to lose but in the short term you have a bunch of outs there are plans you can form to play towards those outs. You still get to make decisions. Even your scrappy lingering souls will buy you four more turns to look for answers. If the discard player already has a bunch of responses to all of those outs your decisions will not matter. Either you need a deck on a fundamentally different power level which can win the game through a non-interactable combo, or you're just twiddling your thumbs for when it's finally socially acceptable to scoop. Both options are more akin to rolling dice than playing magic.
That's more a problem with commander players being precious about 'getting their money's worth' from hour+ long games, rather than a problem with a deck itself. Commander players need to get over their 'ok, we scoop, let's go another?' phobia.
I love the vibes of building decks without general engines and have tried for a rakdos discard slugfest theme before. This looks fun enough to try out exactly as you have it. The more I hear about your deckbuilding and play mindset the more I resonate with it. Hope your influence continues to grow in the community!
This is genuinely a really insightful video. I love rakdos, and have 9 paper rakdos decks. I too wanted to create a discard deck, but struggled with the social implications. I ended up going down a wheels rabbit hole, where discarding doesn't feel as bad when they are being replaced with other cards. The commander is Bladewing deathless tyrant, so I can benefit from filling my grave with wheels, and then has a zombie tribal / reanimator sub theme to close the game out. I'm glad you found a deck that worked well for you, and malfegor is one hell of a commander.
A related term I like that is often used to describe the same "compactness" or "efficiency" of a game piece in other games, such as Pokémon, is "role compression." I feel like thinking about cards that way, as problem-solving or needs-meeting tools has helped me a lot in Magic.
Role Compression and Versatility are two faces of the same coin about your cards being flexible yet capable, which doesn't always line up with efficiency or compactness(versatility can still require synergy or board state, role compression can often come at the cost of raw effect efficiency), but is still quite important Every TCG has very clear examples of cards that swung poorly into overly versatile, either being wildly strong, or being undertuned to accommodate, and occasionally things that got overly specific in unuseful ways where the specific thing being done is too narrow to do service in most situations where you'd want that general genre of effect Thinking about the Role Compression and Versatility is often really important
As a proud deck builder, I usually hate netdecking, but I've been fighting the urge to build both your Radha and Malfegor decks cause I see how insanely fun they'd be to pilot.
12:00 as a proud member of the Scrungus-Angie subcommunity on Myspace, you've made an enemy for life, Snail! We play Scrungus-only decks, and the Scrungus count just went to 1! Better watch your back next time you see an Angie, buddy! /s
I definitely agree the biggest concern when running mass discard is that you’ll knock decks with low resource gain out of contention while rewarding any deck whose theme is “draw a card”
I find it hilarious that at the beginning of the video I was thinking "huh, that sounds a lot like my Syr Konrad deck, a discard focused deck" then you said "this is where discard comes in" and that's when I knew I finally have become a slightly better-than-average deckbuilder, especially since I have financial constraints and most of my decks are between $20-$90
Oh no, the dreaded day has come. The Snail has combined my favorite EDH approach - warping how everyone is playing the game - with the one strat that will consistently make me salty - repeated discard. This is partially why Zurzoth is my favorite deck; I don't take away resources from hand, you just can't be sure which ones will be left when I'm done.
As someone who plays Magic to watch 3 other people not play Magic, "Engine powered by the misery of your opponents" is my jam. My experience with tergrid is that she runs out of gas once opponents hit peak misery so I took my tergrid apart
2:39 a note on statistics that archidekt doesn't account for: mulligans. If you have a 75% chance of drawing at least one of a card type in your opening hand (not the exact example here, but bear with me), your chance of seeing at least one of those cards in *either your opening hand or first mulligan is 0.75 + 0.75 x (1 - 0.75) = about 94%.*
Glad to hear you discussing how important "vibes" are to a deck like this. After running my valgavoth precon through a few commander nights, I've noticed that the deck gets much less attention and thus more wins if I basically never play out my commander. It paints such a big target on the deck that is already group slug, but without him on the board it's like playing a Stax with damage tax instead of mana
"What if I played a pile of little scrappy dudes, and then dragged the rest of the table down to their level?" *Kudo, King of Bears has entered the chat* 🐻
I built a version of the Buffs by Hans deck and it's become one of my favorites. I love your appreciation for decks that subvert the normal midrange beater playstyle. This one looks like a ton of fun and I feel very encouraged to try it out. Thanks for great takes on Magic!
Group hug - Give everyone value, and either use your value more, or reduce their value Group hurt - Remove everyone's value, and and either gain your value back, or stop them from gaining value back
You forgot Group Slug (which is actually a term) which is 'Everyone takes damage' on cards like Descent into Avernus or throwing down Themberchaud (ETBs deal damage to every player and creature equal to the number of mountains you control).
This is so cool what the hell! got hooked on you recently and it's so interesting seeing all the creative fresh brews you come up with. Seems super fun and i will be trying this out!
I have a Seizan Perverter of truth EDH deck. And it has a sub discard theme. I'm not trying to have people have a hand amount of 0. I'm always filling them back up and punishing. But I use lots of thoughtseize type effects to try and look at their sculpted toolboxes. And remove key pieces they want to move ahead. The deck becomes a fun balance of group slug with a constant challenge of "who has a bad poker face and I helped draw into a win" to then take it away.
I've built creatureless Magar, "everything has madness if you try" Oskar, and leaned into archvillainy on purpose with Davros. But this, this here sounds like so much fun. I often make weird experiences for me, but expamding that to the table is choice. The counter-weight commander also rules. Something I got from the Kasla precon: having the commander be best at something else? Yeah.
I like the argument against the engine cards that provide a lot of value and resiliency, they just draw a bigger target on you, especially if somebody can't deal with an enchantment like waste not.
I like the way you think - I have something similar set up with the new Jund Winter, forcing everyone to constantly cycle out their hands or lose everything every end step. I've always really liked discard as a concept, and especially self-discard, and this really feels like a great way to do it, as opposed to the Winter deck demanding everybody have nothing in hand while I usually have a 10+ card grip and not a lot to do with it :/
Compactness is why I will always run Harmonize in any of my green decks. Its fallen out of favor for cards like Return of the Wildspeaker / Shamanic Revelation type spells. But unconditional card draw is really important for recovering and you cant cast the typical suite of green draw without something of a board state.
Oh yeah since most Green Draw is like "Draw equal to highest Toughness" or "Draw equal to creatures with 4 or more Power" and such, things that push "GREEN USES BIG STOMPY, if you can't grow your own store bought is fine"
I've loved discard since I started playing in Revised. My second-favorite card is Chains of Mephistopheles. I now play my own midrange Rakdos discard deck - using Prosper, who does not care about having cards in *hand.* Also, Null Brooch is awesome.
I've always loved running decks that have a specific theme to them. As I've often found those are the most fun to not only build and play with, but play against. One of the decks I'm still workshopping is a deck centered the storytelling, and writing process. The commander isn't the focus and the entire concept is every card is representative to a moment in the story--every creature is a villain in their own right and every card is either directly correlated to writing process or themes or is a Story Spotlight card that fits within the deck itself. The goal of the deck is not some WUBRG value engine--but to get you invested in what will happen next. And that I feel is where a lot of decks should be built around--not some edh engine of synergistic cards, but with a theme or playstyle in mind that breaks the norm.
15:23 - this is, in general, my criticism of most stax-like playstyles that can hinder the self-balance of the 3v1 that commander normally relies upon. Stax and burn are often the biggest offenders when it comes to kingmaking, and I appreciate that this facet didn't fall under the radar. A small instinct says that perhaps some selective group hug effects, like scheming symmetry, and wishclaw talisman can help the table to pivot towards finding a critical answer. Could also be a fun home for a couple new bloomburrow gift cards, like Cruelclaw's Heist, and Consumed by Greed. 16:06 - instead of lamenting rakdos's poor enchantment removal, find ways to enable and politic with the player at the table who DOES have excellent enchantment removal.
I built a Tergrid deck a couple weeks ago (realized I had it in the binder as well as a bunch of other cards for mono black discard in my collection), haven't got the time to try it with my playgroup yet though, now I wonder if they're gonna hate it lol This video popping in recommended felt kind of like an oddly specific and well-timed call out xd
I adopted a similar strategy for my latest Thantis deck with a "end the game fast" theme, where I try to give haste to all creatures on the board and run basically no defenses, so that I am in the same situation of my opponents
"The threat profile of a low-slung grindy deck is just not one EDH players are used to needing to consider" sums up probably a third of my decks. I like to turn Modern or other 60 card format decks into EDH decks and my friends are usually surprised to see me win with them. I built 5 color cycling based off of your other video with Ramos as the commander and it's probably the funniest "how are you still alive!?" deck.
One neat thing about making people hellbent in commander is that people still have access to their commander and if that's an advantage piece they might actually be able to dig out from the resource deficit.
Absolutely love this. I'm definitely not as advanced as you are with mtg, but I have a Juri deck (which I absolutely love) and in this video you describe things that make me think of that deck: It's also very creative with all it's resources. I don't get too big and stay under the radar, and if you don't know the deck well it's not really clear if I'm ahead or not.. Then when I do get noticed the next problem arises: you see my board but it's not clear what the problem is. There is no big shiny 10/10 creature or insane enchantment thing you need to get rid of. Everything does something, but nothing seems the biggest problem. The threat of Juri himself blowing up starts pretty early, but it's not clear when it will be game ending, making it very hard to decide when you should burn your removals and counters on him. Would be fun if you could explore building around him, I wonder what kind of things you'd come up with!
This reminds me of my r/w "blow up the world" deck that still works. Back before commander was an official format I turned my deck into something that could build back up fast but never to big board states. Then filled it with ways to clear the board consistently. People just got used to me "always having an answer" to someone popping off, yet no one saw me as an obvious target since I'd just have a bunch of low drops and no combo to be concerned about.
My favorite EDH deck is my Anje Falkenrath deck, and you are totally right. When I started updating her recently, I quickly realized how easy it was to use the Madness spells as just an engine rather than the goal, and I really didn't want that to happen. I was excited to branch out of limiting her to -only Madness, but I didn't want those to lose their importance and fun in the name of making a generic Rakdos graveyard deck. My solution has become a sort of party-box deck, with several strategies I can play with depending on what I draw into with her first few draws, but always keeping true to the Madness themes. Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar is a Leutinant, and the deck is a lot more about the payoffs from discarding (Bone Miser, Archfiend of Ifnir, etc) as well as actually casting the Madness cards (Nalfeshnee is a fun choice) In this way, I feel like I was able to lean into the broader potential of Anje's ability and keep her from being too narrowly focused, while also not making her gameplan so broad as to make the Madness not matter anymore. The gameplan is still very much discard cards for value and cast Madness, I just increased the variety and power of how I do that. And it is a BLAST
Wonderful video as always. I wanted to add that redundancy for specific pieces can really help with resilience as well. You aren’t as dependent on seeing that one card (or needing to not discard it) if you know you are playing multiple of the effect.
I've been desperate to create a low-to-the-ground, aggro slugfest Rakdos deck, and have only withheld thus far because I wasn't sure what approach I could use to not regularly fizzle out at any halfway-decent table. Which is to say, your insight in this video was even more valuable than usual to me, and the Malfegor deck sounds like maniacal fun!
I find it interesting that combos were what first brought me into commander, but my longest lasting and most loved deck by far has been Traxos. It literally can really only do one thing very well: get on the board asap and bump into everyone else until they die. 3 player games are scary, a 1v1 can be a death sentence if they do not have the resources to blow him up, or if you're just too slow compared to a 7/7 for 4. but once you outrun him, it's very easy to not end up having to worry.
This is kinda funny for me. Back when i got actual friends that i could consistenly play EDH, one of the "unfortunate" was that they were way overturned (near cEDH) compared to my casual jank decks. In response to that, i decided to make a "Let's slow down so everyone can play" deck, which ended up being an Augustin Tax deck focused solely on making my opponents cards cost more, so they'd have a harder time combo-ing off while i could at least make some draws, play some counterspells, creatures, and have fun. The deck rarely won, but it was good enough for my objective
This is a very good overview of group slug. Thank you for making a very detailed analysis of a hard archtype. I do think removing waste not be a mistake but you are spot on with the psychology behind it. That optimal sequence will only happen once in 20 games, though, so i feel it needs added due to breaking parity in those other 19 games. I love my group slug Solphim Dominus deck. Its one of 6 other mono red decks I run. I do the same thing with life total and will slowly burn myself just to burn you a slightly bit faster. Its nearly a prison build where they will kill themselves if they do anything rash. It is pretty antiCedh and has some speed to it. Ive taken it against powerful decks and weak decks and it performs the same. You are spot on in this video. 🔥
The problem is that, fundamentally casual EDH is gonna run on a lot of vibes, and if you roll up to your pod with the deck after rolling them off a first turn Waste Not or other huge game bending engine piece, in a deck that already cripples everyone, nobody's gonna wanna play another round with the promise of "Its not like that usually" So you cut it, you cut it and say thats not happening again, that wasn't fun Cause Casual EDH is about fun for most folk
This is really good. Ive been looking for a good way to build a Rakdos hellbent deck and this is looking perfect. Especially because of that enchantment you cut
As someone with a Kroxa deck I’ve found it very easy to get opponents hellbent but very hard to actually close out the game. This video really helped and I may just change to Malfegore in the near future
Love seeing this kind of Commander choice, most players think their decks exist to serve their commander - when in reality their commanders exist to serve their deck. Think of it this way: If you could run sol ring as your commander would you do it? Put aside the color identity restriction for a second, just imagine you can run any colors you like but Sol Ring is the commander. This would guaruntee you a turn 1 sol ring every single game. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it? Commanders don't have to be some epic build-around engine, they should just be whatever type of effect you want to guaruntee access to. A resiient engine piece is one option but many decks have lots of other ways to find or recur engine pieces. Your commander can just be a big dude, or a rattlesnake that will obviously punish players for targeting you later on, or an efficient mana accelerator, etc. I'd run Sakura Tribe Elder as a commander if I could in many decks.
I took inspiration from your Radha deck and made my own temur version with Susan Foreman and The Tenth Doctor. Turn two Susan, into Explosive Vegetation, and then Doctor to start grabbing cards off the top. Amazing midrange value deck that gets started super early and consistently.
On the point of a counterweight commander, that was the basis of my first real commander deck back in like 2018. I built a Jund Lands deck with Wasitora as the commander, because with all the ramping I did I always wanted a payoff in the CZ and she was a massive threat who cleaned up problems and built my board. She didnt “do land things”. But I didnt need my commander for that.
All of my casual decks are focused on compact cards, and the resilience that gives a deck is insane. Instead of drawing a synergy card that needs 1-2 more cards to realize full value but I don’t have due to an impoverished state, I’ve got a full threat/impact on the game.
This advice is very similar to my reasoning for including some of the Kamigawa equipment creatures in my Voltron deck. Sometimes I just need more creatures and I can maintain a board after a creature wipe or transfer the creature to beef up something that would do better with the granted effects, especially with cards like strong back and mantle of the ancients.
I just made a deck with The Mindskinner as the commander. I don't do any graveyard hate or benefit from milling my opponents. The main point of the deck is theft and counterspells. I use The MindSkinner as a cheap target for my opponents removal when I don't have a counterspell. If it's targeted frequently, I'm actually happy since I can protect the things I've rightfully stolen without wasting a counterspell, so it essentially functions as a reusable counterspell in that way. I've found that people are terrified by the thought of milling out an entire deck to an unblockable creature and are less worried about me stealing their board as a result.
I just want to say iIreally enjoy the way you think about decks and play patterns. It's validated a bit of my own deck building style and thought processes, but also given me a lot to chew on. This video especially made me feel seen in deck building decisions because one of the first decks that made me fall in love with brewing for commander was a deck that ended up seeking to generate the same kind of game state, though through a different route. It was a God-eternal oketra deck that played (at its peak) 13 wraths that could hit most permanent types. And following that up with your commander and a hatebear could be backbreaking. Anyway I thoroughly enjoy your content and am hoping to get a fun eomer list in for it.
I remember when I built this type of deck back in 2018. Ended up breaking it down during Covid for parts. Maybe I should rebuild it to see how it would work now in my pod
My fav deck to this day remains my old malfegor deck. It never won but I always had fun playing it. A card I ran in it for a while that you may like to solve that one player drawing too much is Head Games. You can either fill that players hand with junk. Or, bargin with a player to give them a nice thing and a removal spell to bring that player down to everyone's level.
Not sure if WotC has already made a card like this, but it would be quite cool to see a commander that mills player decks including yours and allow them to play cards from the graveyard onto the battlefield with finality counters and an equivalent mechanic for non-permanents.
I once considered to do epic spells and other cards that does very horrid things to myself but a deck centered around Hivemind, aka the "I will cease and drag you all down as well" I eventually realized that I will get tossed out by my friends for doing this, however it was a really funny idea that I want to revisit, and I think this is kinda the vibe I wanted as well. Some sort of "soft stax" that doesn't make me in specific come ahead, instead focusing on throwing the table into a chaotic tavern brawl.
Just a small thing but I LOVE the Azra Oddsmaker in the list. It's among my favourite creature based advantage engines together with Mindblade Render and [in Jund] Oakhame Adversary
While you are 100% correct about Anje lists (including my Anje list,) nothing's more satisfying than a surprise pivot off combo into mediocre creature beat down. The best part of moving the strongest part of the deck to plan B is that being ready to stop it is enough of a tax that the bad Plan A can work.
Best solution I had for making Anje less madness-jank and more scrappy/threatening was to splice in vampire tribal, and it works really well. Rakdos already gives you plenty of great choices for casual vampires, and most players wont bat an eye at your madness discard as is, especially if you have greater problems for them to deal with. She gets away with staying on the board as a madness utility card while more imposing vampires catch removal, like Markov Enforcer or Stormkirk Captain. The deck features a secret combo card that turns the deck from casual vampires with a madness digging theme into a turbo-madness deck: Falkenrath Gorger. You can quickly churn through your deck and grab combo pieces like Feast of Sanity, Glint-Horn Buccaneer, Archfiend of Ifnir, or Haunted One and win the game within a turn or two beyond that, but you dont have to do that or rely on it to win. Vampire tribal is very strong on its own and can win you games with combat alone. A lot of people sleep on how nasty madness can be when you do more than just all-madness-jank.
As a Rakdos player…the endless brutality this deck offers warms my cold black heart. I love a deck that screams “I’m not locked in here with you, you’re locked in here with me” 😂😂😂😂
i actually have a copy of shizuko in my own discard deck, its a yurlock deck with as many free mana cards as possible and a lot of hand disruption. it usually functions like giving a bunch of toddlers nuclear launch codes and making sure they cant use them effectively. lots of fun and almost always a disaster
I have an Olivia, Crimson Bride deck that's pretty close to/partially inspired by your Malfegor deck. The gameplan is to use group discard cards to strip the opponent's hands of removal spells, which clears the path for Olivia to take over the game by herself. One of the problems I keep running into is a) not having enough creatures to reanimate with Olivia, and b) always being the archenemy because of the deck on top of being the most experienced player in the group. Maybe I'll start shaving down my advantage engines like Waste Nots and stuff for more dumb beatsticks
Damn. This is about 20 minutes of why I love my Kroxa deck. Running a discard engine in the command zone means that I can use those 20 discard slots on removal and graveyard value instead.
I have a deck very similar to this but it works a little differently. The commander is Glarb, who is used as a value/card selection engine, but not one that is extremely powerful or obvious. I don't go all in on the MV 4 or greater theme and in fact the deck is pretty serviceable without him. I have board wipes, discard, fair stax, counter spells, draining enchantments as my main gameplan. All without much synergy or explosivness. Droping sanctum of stone fangs -> Glarb -> discard spell -> light stax piece is extremely unassuming and it looks like I am just doing completely unrelated things, but then they all start adding up towards the endgame to make a boardstate that is suddenly very opressive and inevitable backed up by counterspells. I Love unassumingly powerful decks.
Long time watcher, first time commenting. I love this deck. I've been working on a specter deck led by Crosis that does similar grindy things. I sympathize with the lack of good specters. I think Wizards are scared to print anything more efficient to "stax" like a Specter would. Also, Tuesday is the 29th. Concept not loss, just noticed the misspeak.
I love the counterweight commander concept and I feel like it applies to some of my decks. One of my favorites is kwain, itinerant meddler, which I play alongside a bunch of rule of law and taxing effects. With a commander like GAAIV, it would be an extremely unfun stax deck, but the group hug elements keep people motivated and struggling for my amusement. By disproportionately hindering explosive synergy I force a certain game state (draw-go, reactive) that I'm also prepared for with countermagic and slower progressive win cons. Similar but opposite to malfegor getting everybody hellbent.
unreal how much depth you put into making decks and vids. Ill see a basic land and think "oh yeah, im making a commander deck based of its art." and of course will get ROLLED lol
I love the idea of “dragging the table to your level.” I’m currently building heartless hidetsugu with the goal of pressuring life totals for people to safely set up their late game value engines, then playing red like one would in a 20 life format
I miss when the title of this video was Malfegor.mp4
Malfegor.mp4 did have quite a nice ring to it
@@salubrioussnail RIP Malfegor.mp4 2024-2024 Gone but not Forgotten
#BringBackMalfegor.mp4
@@salubrioussnail They haven't banned that damned Ring yet?
I had a Kroxa deck that attacked hands, once upon a time. People really didn’t like discard.
Magic player, FORCED to play Commander, tries to turn Commander into a normal game of Magic
the idea of "counterweight commander" is going to change the way I play and build decks.
Ever since he introduced the concept to me with his videos, I've been wondering about all the possibilities. I would honestly love if he made a video dedicated to the subject. It's a very different way to build decks from the standard "engine in the command zone", and I'd love to hear some insight
@@filippomilan2656And on the flipside of all that, I’m off in my corner building a Necroblossom deck where it’s still an engine card, but only as a means to get stuff in the yard faster. It’s not land loop goodstuff, it’s a crossbreed of blink and reanimation
@@filippomilan2656 My second video on this channel was all about that concept, but that video was both short and *very* early in the channel. I may come back to it at some point for a full visit.
@@salubrioussnail I don't play magic, I just watch you for the game theory. Do it, it's fascinating.
Same here, though I don't believe I have enough experience to build an effective counterweight commander, especially when it comes to understanding the greater meta of the commander format.
'An engine powered entirely by the suffering of their opponents' is a pretty fire quote (and a good description of many of my friends' decks)
That's my headcanon Paradox Engine flavor text
Hi. Tergrid player here. I see your argument, and I made a Tergrid Group Hug deck.
The whiplash people experience when I express this is "chef's kiss" great. No mass sacrifice. No hellbent opponents.
Group hug draws. Howling Mine. Font of Mythos. Seizan. Peer Into the Abyss targeting an opponent. We fatten this pig before we slaughter it with a wheel effect.
I'm in love with this deck hahahaahaha
Peer into the Abyss targeting an opponent into a wheel is diabolical
How do you get people to agree to play against it? Usually when someone whips out Tergrid i'm like, "okay here we go... hopefully this will be an example of why no one wants to play against it". Lots of people just say no.
@@joshbowdish9851 I say I made Tergrid Group Hug, and the rule 0 conversation ensues from there. Usually, fanning out the deck and letting people look through it is enough to get people's interest piqued.
@@Quroe_ I'd love to see the list! Sounds like a very cool deck
Building an entire deck just for the thrill of an unconventional low-on-value free for all is peak rakdos gameplay
Madness is my favorite mechanic in magic. It feels like I'm a mad doctor of some kind burning through my mind to gain an advantage and destroy my enemies.
cards that benefit you to discard are my favorite in any cg lol
"make your deck a bossfight/puzzle" is a pretty good idea for casual. you have to keep your weaknesses in mind, and lean into them, don't just shore them up and optimize out of things.
I think acknowledging that group slug can be a kingmaker is so important and not something many slug players realise.
We know. We just like dreaming that we will totally beat everyone equally.
I think Valgovoth adds a nice change to group slug. He allows you to become the king, or able to kill the king
If you let any other player even think you're not killing everyone equally you will immediately become the target of the table
I run into this issue with Nekusar. But slug runs on vibes. Not there to lose but winning is secondary to sending a message.
"Finding new and fresh ways to play will always be a big goal for me in edh" I really appreciate this sentiment. I have been exploring some more unique and interesting commander options lately and am also trying to branch out into different playstyle vibes.
As a follow up to the topic: When exploring or considering new decks or playstyles, how do you make sure that they are still fun for your opponents to play against? You talked about that some in this video, but I think there's a lot of nuance to be had in that discussion. I'm interested to hear your thoughts about it!
I always like it when my mid-power decks feel "fair" (giving plenty of opportunities for response), and I mostly try to build decks that focus on being grindy and resilient rather than being fiercely proactive. Beyond that, it's a matter of playstyle. I like to be open about what my deck is doing, and I try to make it clear that I'm not trying to ruin anybody's day. I frequently play decks with stax-y elements or removal engines, which can make people salty at times, so I try to pair that with a style of table engagement that is light, even-handed, and accepting of any hate or attacks my deck might attract.
@@salubrioussnail Thanks for the response! I agree that commander is best when people are being socially interactive as well as mechanically interactive, even if some of the mechanical tension bleeds into the social tension. Not taking things personally is important as well.
I asked the question because I was looking at building a Flubs, the Fool deck with the focus of topdeck spellslinging into storm cards for wins. I realized pretty quickly that it sounds like a nightmare to play against, similar to the non-deterministic Nadu turns which you've spoken about before. I'm pivoting into a more generic landfall deck with opportunities for players to better disrupt the gameplan. But it started a deep dive in my brain into the topic.
At the end of all this I think I am placing a bigger emphasis on my own deckbuilding on having some kind of interaction present in every deck, even if it isn't the decks primary focus. But, like you shared in this video, interaction can be a lot more than just removing permanents. Pressure can be put on opponents in a number of ways, and I'm starting to understand better the value of building into less conventional ways of doing so.
God every time I watch a Snail video I feel my brain expanding
Indubitably.
The concept of compactness is actually just so great. Feels like it's gonna help understand my decks going forward quite a lot.
I think part of that vibe is very much in how it feels for the opponent. If you're in a topdeck war where in the long run you're likely going to lose but in the short term you have a bunch of outs there are plans you can form to play towards those outs. You still get to make decisions. Even your scrappy lingering souls will buy you four more turns to look for answers. If the discard player already has a bunch of responses to all of those outs your decisions will not matter. Either you need a deck on a fundamentally different power level which can win the game through a non-interactable combo, or you're just twiddling your thumbs for when it's finally socially acceptable to scoop. Both options are more akin to rolling dice than playing magic.
That's more a problem with commander players being precious about 'getting their money's worth' from hour+ long games, rather than a problem with a deck itself. Commander players need to get over their 'ok, we scoop, let's go another?' phobia.
I love the vibes of building decks without general engines and have tried for a rakdos discard slugfest theme before. This looks fun enough to try out exactly as you have it.
The more I hear about your deckbuilding and play mindset the more I resonate with it. Hope your influence continues to grow in the community!
This is genuinely a really insightful video. I love rakdos, and have 9 paper rakdos decks. I too wanted to create a discard deck, but struggled with the social implications. I ended up going down a wheels rabbit hole, where discarding doesn't feel as bad when they are being replaced with other cards. The commander is Bladewing deathless tyrant, so I can benefit from filling my grave with wheels, and then has a zombie tribal / reanimator sub theme to close the game out. I'm glad you found a deck that worked well for you, and malfegor is one hell of a commander.
A related term I like that is often used to describe the same "compactness" or "efficiency" of a game piece in other games, such as Pokémon, is "role compression." I feel like thinking about cards that way, as problem-solving or needs-meeting tools has helped me a lot in Magic.
Role Compression and Versatility are two faces of the same coin about your cards being flexible yet capable, which doesn't always line up with efficiency or compactness(versatility can still require synergy or board state, role compression can often come at the cost of raw effect efficiency), but is still quite important
Every TCG has very clear examples of cards that swung poorly into overly versatile, either being wildly strong, or being undertuned to accommodate, and occasionally things that got overly specific in unuseful ways where the specific thing being done is too narrow to do service in most situations where you'd want that general genre of effect
Thinking about the Role Compression and Versatility is often really important
@@syrelian whole lot of words but I'm not following an argument there
As a proud deck builder, I usually hate netdecking, but I've been fighting the urge to build both your Radha and Malfegor decks cause I see how insanely fun they'd be to pilot.
i love goofy magic decks... i like your videos because they make me question my notions on why I like to build my decks the way I do
12:00 as a proud member of the Scrungus-Angie subcommunity on Myspace, you've made an enemy for life, Snail! We play Scrungus-only decks, and the Scrungus count just went to 1! Better watch your back next time you see an Angie, buddy! /s
I definitely agree the biggest concern when running mass discard is that you’ll knock decks with low resource gain out of contention while rewarding any deck whose theme is “draw a card”
I find it hilarious that at the beginning of the video I was thinking "huh, that sounds a lot like my Syr Konrad deck, a discard focused deck" then you said "this is where discard comes in" and that's when I knew I finally have become a slightly better-than-average deckbuilder, especially since I have financial constraints and most of my decks are between $20-$90
So early I'm chilling with people saying first like it's 2004
First
first
Oh no, the dreaded day has come. The Snail has combined my favorite EDH approach - warping how everyone is playing the game - with the one strat that will consistently make me salty - repeated discard.
This is partially why Zurzoth is my favorite deck; I don't take away resources from hand, you just can't be sure which ones will be left when I'm done.
As someone who plays Magic to watch 3 other people not play Magic, "Engine powered by the misery of your opponents" is my jam.
My experience with tergrid is that she runs out of gas once opponents hit peak misery so I took my tergrid apart
A near vanilla 4/4 showing up in over half of Anje decks is WILD TO ME
There are only like 50 or so cards with Madness in rakdos, with Anje, you want basically all 😅
Hey, it does have trample. Unlike Twins of Maurer Estate, which sees play in 50% of decks.
Just having Madness makes a card good enough for Anje.
If played with Madness, i's a 4/4 for 3 that costs no card in hand .-.
Not really vanilla.
@@ereshkigalvandrekkenov5657 still probably not good enough to play in edh
read what anje does, you want literally any card in rakdos with madness written on it.
2:39 a note on statistics that archidekt doesn't account for: mulligans. If you have a 75% chance of drawing at least one of a card type in your opening hand (not the exact example here, but bear with me), your chance of seeing at least one of those cards in *either your opening hand or first mulligan is 0.75 + 0.75 x (1 - 0.75) = about 94%.*
Glad to hear you discussing how important "vibes" are to a deck like this. After running my valgavoth precon through a few commander nights, I've noticed that the deck gets much less attention and thus more wins if I basically never play out my commander. It paints such a big target on the deck that is already group slug, but without him on the board it's like playing a Stax with damage tax instead of mana
"What if I played a pile of little scrappy dudes, and then dragged the rest of the table down to their level?"
*Kudo, King of Bears has entered the chat* 🐻
I built a version of the Buffs by Hans deck and it's become one of my favorites. I love your appreciation for decks that subvert the normal midrange beater playstyle. This one looks like a ton of fun and I feel very encouraged to try it out. Thanks for great takes on Magic!
Group hug - Give everyone value, and either use your value more, or reduce their value
Group hurt - Remove everyone's value, and and either gain your value back, or stop them from gaining value back
You forgot Group Slug (which is actually a term) which is 'Everyone takes damage' on cards like Descent into Avernus or throwing down Themberchaud (ETBs deal damage to every player and creature equal to the number of mountains you control).
This is so cool what the hell! got hooked on you recently and it's so interesting seeing all the creative fresh brews you come up with. Seems super fun and i will be trying this out!
I have a Seizan Perverter of truth EDH deck. And it has a sub discard theme. I'm not trying to have people have a hand amount of 0. I'm always filling them back up and punishing. But I use lots of thoughtseize type effects to try and look at their sculpted toolboxes. And remove key pieces they want to move ahead. The deck becomes a fun balance of group slug with a constant challenge of "who has a bad poker face and I helped draw into a win" to then take it away.
I've built creatureless Magar, "everything has madness if you try" Oskar, and leaned into archvillainy on purpose with Davros.
But this, this here sounds like so much fun. I often make weird experiences for me, but expamding that to the table is choice.
The counter-weight commander also rules. Something I got from the Kasla precon: having the commander be best at something else? Yeah.
Congrats on the 50k! Well deserved.
I like the argument against the engine cards that provide a lot of value and resiliency, they just draw a bigger target on you, especially if somebody can't deal with an enchantment like waste not.
I like the way you think - I have something similar set up with the new Jund Winter, forcing everyone to constantly cycle out their hands or lose everything every end step. I've always really liked discard as a concept, and especially self-discard, and this really feels like a great way to do it, as opposed to the Winter deck demanding everybody have nothing in hand while I usually have a 10+ card grip and not a lot to do with it :/
Compactness is why I will always run Harmonize in any of my green decks. Its fallen out of favor for cards like Return of the Wildspeaker / Shamanic Revelation type spells. But unconditional card draw is really important for recovering and you cant cast the typical suite of green draw without something of a board state.
Oh yeah since most Green Draw is like "Draw equal to highest Toughness" or "Draw equal to creatures with 4 or more Power" and such, things that push "GREEN USES BIG STOMPY, if you can't grow your own store bought is fine"
I've loved discard since I started playing in Revised. My second-favorite card is Chains of Mephistopheles. I now play my own midrange Rakdos discard deck - using Prosper, who does not care about having cards in *hand.* Also, Null Brooch is awesome.
I've always loved running decks that have a specific theme to them. As I've often found those are the most fun to not only build and play with, but play against.
One of the decks I'm still workshopping is a deck centered the storytelling, and writing process. The commander isn't the focus and the entire concept is every card is representative to a moment in the story--every creature is a villain in their own right and every card is either directly correlated to writing process or themes or is a Story Spotlight card that fits within the deck itself.
The goal of the deck is not some WUBRG value engine--but to get you invested in what will happen next.
And that I feel is where a lot of decks should be built around--not some edh engine of synergistic cards, but with a theme or playstyle in mind that breaks the norm.
15:23 - this is, in general, my criticism of most stax-like playstyles that can hinder the self-balance of the 3v1 that commander normally relies upon. Stax and burn are often the biggest offenders when it comes to kingmaking, and I appreciate that this facet didn't fall under the radar.
A small instinct says that perhaps some selective group hug effects, like scheming symmetry, and wishclaw talisman can help the table to pivot towards finding a critical answer. Could also be a fun home for a couple new bloomburrow gift cards, like Cruelclaw's Heist, and Consumed by Greed. 16:06 - instead of lamenting rakdos's poor enchantment removal, find ways to enable and politic with the player at the table who DOES have excellent enchantment removal.
I built a Tergrid deck a couple weeks ago (realized I had it in the binder as well as a bunch of other cards for mono black discard in my collection), haven't got the time to try it with my playgroup yet though, now I wonder if they're gonna hate it lol
This video popping in recommended felt kind of like an oddly specific and well-timed call out xd
I can basically guarantee you they will. Gal is up in the top ten of the EDHREC salt list for a reason
I adopted a similar strategy for my latest Thantis deck with a "end the game fast" theme, where I try to give haste to all creatures on the board and run basically no defenses, so that I am in the same situation of my opponents
"The threat profile of a low-slung grindy deck is just not one EDH players are used to needing to consider" sums up probably a third of my decks. I like to turn Modern or other 60 card format decks into EDH decks and my friends are usually surprised to see me win with them. I built 5 color cycling based off of your other video with Ramos as the commander and it's probably the funniest "how are you still alive!?" deck.
One neat thing about making people hellbent in commander is that people still have access to their commander and if that's an advantage piece they might actually be able to dig out from the resource deficit.
Everytime you release a video I get so encouraged to make a new commander deck!
In both of my play groups a person that makes you discard everything is getting attacked by everyone.
Absolutely love this. I'm definitely not as advanced as you are with mtg, but I have a Juri deck (which I absolutely love) and in this video you describe things that make me think of that deck: It's also very creative with all it's resources. I don't get too big and stay under the radar, and if you don't know the deck well it's not really clear if I'm ahead or not.. Then when I do get noticed the next problem arises: you see my board but it's not clear what the problem is. There is no big shiny 10/10 creature or insane enchantment thing you need to get rid of. Everything does something, but nothing seems the biggest problem. The threat of Juri himself blowing up starts pretty early, but it's not clear when it will be game ending, making it very hard to decide when you should burn your removals and counters on him. Would be fun if you could explore building around him, I wonder what kind of things you'd come up with!
This reminds me of my r/w "blow up the world" deck that still works.
Back before commander was an official format I turned my deck into something that could build back up fast but never to big board states. Then filled it with ways to clear the board consistently. People just got used to me "always having an answer" to someone popping off, yet no one saw me as an obvious target since I'd just have a bunch of low drops and no combo to be concerned about.
My favorite EDH deck is my Anje Falkenrath deck, and you are totally right.
When I started updating her recently, I quickly realized how easy it was to use the Madness spells as just an engine rather than the goal, and I really didn't want that to happen. I was excited to branch out of limiting her to -only Madness, but I didn't want those to lose their importance and fun in the name of making a generic Rakdos graveyard deck.
My solution has become a sort of party-box deck, with several strategies I can play with depending on what I draw into with her first few draws, but always keeping true to the Madness themes. Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar is a Leutinant, and the deck is a lot more about the payoffs from discarding (Bone Miser, Archfiend of Ifnir, etc) as well as actually casting the Madness cards (Nalfeshnee is a fun choice)
In this way, I feel like I was able to lean into the broader potential of Anje's ability and keep her from being too narrowly focused, while also not making her gameplan so broad as to make the Madness not matter anymore. The gameplan is still very much discard cards for value and cast Madness, I just increased the variety and power of how I do that. And it is a BLAST
Wonderful video as always.
I wanted to add that redundancy for specific pieces can really help with resilience as well. You aren’t as dependent on seeing that one card (or needing to not discard it) if you know you are playing multiple of the effect.
I've been desperate to create a low-to-the-ground, aggro slugfest Rakdos deck, and have only withheld thus far because I wasn't sure what approach I could use to not regularly fizzle out at any halfway-decent table. Which is to say, your insight in this video was even more valuable than usual to me, and the Malfegor deck sounds like maniacal fun!
I find it interesting that combos were what first brought me into commander, but my longest lasting and most loved deck by far has been Traxos. It literally can really only do one thing very well: get on the board asap and bump into everyone else until they die.
3 player games are scary, a 1v1 can be a death sentence if they do not have the resources to blow him up, or if you're just too slow compared to a 7/7 for 4. but once you outrun him, it's very easy to not end up having to worry.
I’m super excited to watch this one. This was my first deck idea when I started 7 years ago Malfegor, nobody has a hand, fight me .deck.
I 100% agree that mass discard is a hugely underrated disruptor to the tired 'commander meta' of ramp into big value while playing out your hand.
This is kinda funny for me. Back when i got actual friends that i could consistenly play EDH, one of the "unfortunate" was that they were way overturned (near cEDH) compared to my casual jank decks.
In response to that, i decided to make a "Let's slow down so everyone can play" deck, which ended up being an Augustin Tax deck focused solely on making my opponents cards cost more, so they'd have a harder time combo-ing off while i could at least make some draws, play some counterspells, creatures, and have fun.
The deck rarely won, but it was good enough for my objective
This is a very good overview of group slug. Thank you for making a very detailed analysis of a hard archtype.
I do think removing waste not be a mistake but you are spot on with the psychology behind it. That optimal sequence will only happen once in 20 games, though, so i feel it needs added due to breaking parity in those other 19 games.
I love my group slug Solphim Dominus deck. Its one of 6 other mono red decks I run.
I do the same thing with life total and will slowly burn myself just to burn you a slightly bit faster. Its nearly a prison build where they will kill themselves if they do anything rash.
It is pretty antiCedh and has some speed to it. Ive taken it against powerful decks and weak decks and it performs the same. You are spot on in this video. 🔥
The problem is that, fundamentally casual EDH is gonna run on a lot of vibes, and if you roll up to your pod with the deck after rolling them off a first turn Waste Not or other huge game bending engine piece, in a deck that already cripples everyone, nobody's gonna wanna play another round with the promise of "Its not like that usually"
So you cut it, you cut it and say thats not happening again, that wasn't fun
Cause Casual EDH is about fun for most folk
This is really good. Ive been looking for a good way to build a Rakdos hellbent deck and this is looking perfect. Especially because of that enchantment you cut
As someone with a Kroxa deck I’ve found it very easy to get opponents hellbent but very hard to actually close out the game. This video really helped and I may just change to Malfegore in the near future
Love seeing this kind of Commander choice, most players think their decks exist to serve their commander - when in reality their commanders exist to serve their deck. Think of it this way: If you could run sol ring as your commander would you do it? Put aside the color identity restriction for a second, just imagine you can run any colors you like but Sol Ring is the commander. This would guaruntee you a turn 1 sol ring every single game. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?
Commanders don't have to be some epic build-around engine, they should just be whatever type of effect you want to guaruntee access to. A resiient engine piece is one option but many decks have lots of other ways to find or recur engine pieces. Your commander can just be a big dude, or a rattlesnake that will obviously punish players for targeting you later on, or an efficient mana accelerator, etc. I'd run Sakura Tribe Elder as a commander if I could in many decks.
I took inspiration from your Radha deck and made my own temur version with Susan Foreman and The Tenth Doctor. Turn two Susan, into Explosive Vegetation, and then Doctor to start grabbing cards off the top. Amazing midrange value deck that gets started super early and consistently.
On the point of a counterweight commander, that was the basis of my first real commander deck back in like 2018.
I built a Jund Lands deck with Wasitora as the commander, because with all the ramping I did I always wanted a payoff in the CZ and she was a massive threat who cleaned up problems and built my board.
She didnt “do land things”. But I didnt need my commander for that.
This video is making me rethink things in ths best way. Thank you!
All of my casual decks are focused on compact cards, and the resilience that gives a deck is insane. Instead of drawing a synergy card that needs 1-2 more cards to realize full value but I don’t have due to an impoverished state, I’ve got a full threat/impact on the game.
I can't believe my toxic fav Awaken the Erstwhile didn't make this list. Great way to say "No having hands, only throwing them!".
Love this. Can't wait for the decks!
That's an interesting approach to discard, I like it a lot, I always saw it simply as a way of getting card advantage.
This advice is very similar to my reasoning for including some of the Kamigawa equipment creatures in my Voltron deck. Sometimes I just need more creatures and I can maintain a board after a creature wipe or transfer the creature to beef up something that would do better with the granted effects, especially with cards like strong back and mantle of the ancients.
I just made a deck with The Mindskinner as the commander. I don't do any graveyard hate or benefit from milling my opponents. The main point of the deck is theft and counterspells. I use The MindSkinner as a cheap target for my opponents removal when I don't have a counterspell. If it's targeted frequently, I'm actually happy since I can protect the things I've rightfully stolen without wasting a counterspell, so it essentially functions as a reusable counterspell in that way. I've found that people are terrified by the thought of milling out an entire deck to an unblockable creature and are less worried about me stealing their board as a result.
I just want to say iIreally enjoy the way you think about decks and play patterns. It's validated a bit of my own deck building style and thought processes, but also given me a lot to chew on.
This video especially made me feel seen in deck building decisions because one of the first decks that made me fall in love with brewing for commander was a deck that ended up seeking to generate the same kind of game state, though through a different route. It was a God-eternal oketra deck that played (at its peak) 13 wraths that could hit most permanent types. And following that up with your commander and a hatebear could be backbreaking.
Anyway I thoroughly enjoy your content and am hoping to get a fun eomer list in for it.
I remember when I built this type of deck back in 2018. Ended up breaking it down during Covid for parts. Maybe I should rebuild it to see how it would work now in my pod
"I'm out of hand, but not out of options"
- Malfegor
This is some what how my Grixis Zombies Thraximundar deck works, and I think I'll adopt the "cagefight" nickname for the deck archetype.
I love this approach to the game as a puzzle to solve
My fav deck to this day remains my old malfegor deck. It never won but I always had fun playing it. A card I ran in it for a while that you may like to solve that one player drawing too much is Head Games. You can either fill that players hand with junk. Or, bargin with a player to give them a nice thing and a removal spell to bring that player down to everyone's level.
My Anje deck was the same thing, but having to explain that I don't run Worldgorger got annoying fast...
Not sure if WotC has already made a card like this, but it would be quite cool to see a commander that mills player decks including yours and allow them to play cards from the graveyard onto the battlefield with finality counters and an equivalent mechanic for non-permanents.
I once considered to do epic spells and other cards that does very horrid things to myself but a deck centered around Hivemind, aka the "I will cease and drag you all down as well"
I eventually realized that I will get tossed out by my friends for doing this, however it was a really funny idea that I want to revisit, and I think this is kinda the vibe I wanted as well. Some sort of "soft stax" that doesn't make me in specific come ahead, instead focusing on throwing the table into a chaotic tavern brawl.
I love your deck techs!
Just a small thing but I LOVE the Azra Oddsmaker in the list. It's among my favourite creature based advantage engines together with Mindblade Render and [in Jund] Oakhame Adversary
Azra Oddsmaker is also great in self-mill dredge decks because it's a reusable rummage discard then draw effect that's also card advantage.
While you are 100% correct about Anje lists (including my Anje list,) nothing's more satisfying than a surprise pivot off combo into mediocre creature beat down. The best part of moving the strongest part of the deck to plan B is that being ready to stop it is enough of a tax that the bad Plan A can work.
Best solution I had for making Anje less madness-jank and more scrappy/threatening was to splice in vampire tribal, and it works really well. Rakdos already gives you plenty of great choices for casual vampires, and most players wont bat an eye at your madness discard as is, especially if you have greater problems for them to deal with. She gets away with staying on the board as a madness utility card while more imposing vampires catch removal, like Markov Enforcer or Stormkirk Captain.
The deck features a secret combo card that turns the deck from casual vampires with a madness digging theme into a turbo-madness deck: Falkenrath Gorger. You can quickly churn through your deck and grab combo pieces like Feast of Sanity, Glint-Horn Buccaneer, Archfiend of Ifnir, or Haunted One and win the game within a turn or two beyond that, but you dont have to do that or rely on it to win. Vampire tribal is very strong on its own and can win you games with combat alone. A lot of people sleep on how nasty madness can be when you do more than just all-madness-jank.
"I sacrifice my Mindslicer"
As a Rakdos player…the endless brutality this deck offers warms my cold black heart. I love a deck that screams “I’m not locked in here with you, you’re locked in here with me” 😂😂😂😂
Nice and unique deck well presented as always!
i actually have a copy of shizuko in my own discard deck, its a yurlock deck with as many free mana cards as possible and a lot of hand disruption. it usually functions like giving a bunch of toddlers nuclear launch codes and making sure they cant use them effectively. lots of fun and almost always a disaster
I have an Olivia, Crimson Bride deck that's pretty close to/partially inspired by your Malfegor deck. The gameplan is to use group discard cards to strip the opponent's hands of removal spells, which clears the path for Olivia to take over the game by herself.
One of the problems I keep running into is a) not having enough creatures to reanimate with Olivia, and b) always being the archenemy because of the deck on top of being the most experienced player in the group. Maybe I'll start shaving down my advantage engines like Waste Nots and stuff for more dumb beatsticks
this channel is for all edh brewers thank you mr snail
Damn. This is about 20 minutes of why I love my Kroxa deck.
Running a discard engine in the command zone means that I can use those 20 discard slots on removal and graveyard value instead.
I have a deck very similar to this but it works a little differently. The commander is Glarb, who is used as a value/card selection engine, but not one that is extremely powerful or obvious. I don't go all in on the MV 4 or greater theme and in fact the deck is pretty serviceable without him. I have board wipes, discard, fair stax, counter spells, draining enchantments as my main gameplan. All without much synergy or explosivness. Droping sanctum of stone fangs -> Glarb -> discard spell -> light stax piece is extremely unassuming and it looks like I am just doing completely unrelated things, but then they all start adding up towards the endgame to make a boardstate that is suddenly very opressive and inevitable backed up by counterspells. I Love unassumingly powerful decks.
Can't wait to build Frank, Jeff kindred needed a good commander and they finally gave us one.
i built a mogis, god of slaughter deck years ago, it follows the same principles as yours. my playgroup loves it
Now i am hyped for the video(s) regarding the deckbuilding contest. want to see what ppl come up with
Long time watcher, first time commenting. I love this deck. I've been working on a specter deck led by Crosis that does similar grindy things. I sympathize with the lack of good specters. I think Wizards are scared to print anything more efficient to "stax" like a Specter would.
Also, Tuesday is the 29th. Concept not loss, just noticed the misspeak.
All glory to the snail! I'm hyped for this video. I love building towards a vibe. Which is why I'm a sucker for goad.
I love the counterweight commander concept and I feel like it applies to some of my decks. One of my favorites is kwain, itinerant meddler, which I play alongside a bunch of rule of law and taxing effects. With a commander like GAAIV, it would be an extremely unfun stax deck, but the group hug elements keep people motivated and struggling for my amusement.
By disproportionately hindering explosive synergy I force a certain game state (draw-go, reactive) that I'm also prepared for with countermagic and slower progressive win cons. Similar but opposite to malfegor getting everybody hellbent.
I love the way you talk about your deck.
unreal how much depth you put into making decks and vids. Ill see a basic land and think "oh yeah, im making a commander deck based of its art." and of course will get ROLLED lol
thank you man, ive dreamt of a way to make a discard deck but not make others just sigh into exile. Also finally a use for my 2009 Malfegor
Well done with 50k subs! Looking forward to the commander challenge
I love the idea of “dragging the table to your level.” I’m currently building heartless hidetsugu with the goal of pressuring life totals for people to safely set up their late game value engines, then playing red like one would in a 20 life format