Great video. I have a sniper stealth I installed. So far, so good. What I tell people is you can’t follow Holley’s marketing on this. You are buying a relatively sophisticated digital engine management system with zero diagnostic capability that is going to control air, fuel, timing and temperature based on lowest bid sensors to arrive at a price point to complete with a carb. As such, you need to have a clean modern electrical system, clean modern fuel system and air tight intake and exhaust sealing. You try to bolt it on to the repaired manifold you bought on marketplace along with the rusty warped 30 year old cyclone headers and hook it into your 50 year old, spliced together wiring harness, hook up 4 wires and think you are going to be good, you will probably be putting a carb back on it after a week. Be prepared to spend as much in support parts as you did for the Sniper itself. At least that’s how it worked for me.
Excellent advice!! I was having strange issues with my Sniper 1. One day, car would run like a DREAM, next day, mis-fires, and no power. FIX: Replaced ignition cables with top of the line 10MM shielded Taylor cables.
I'm running a stout 427W stroker, and I installed a Sniper Stealth. I spent a month making sure my electrical system was Sniper-ready even before taking the old carb off. I'd read about the sub-par regulator in the square Sniper, and saw a lot of Ford guys having RFI issues with it, and that's what dove me to get the Stealth. It's been running fine for almost two years.
@@henrymeynier5072 maybe, but spark plug wires with good suppression and plugs as well, sheild between distributor and throttle body, don't run spark plug wires near sniper wires etc, will reduce this.
This is great info. I've installed dozens and dozens of snipers and not really had too many issues to lately. Combination of previous vehicle build and park quality.. your videos are very informative
Great information Keith. For those that aren't old enough to know, 'back in the old days' *Vacuum Gauges* were one of the few "engine diagnostic tools" that were available to the general public (which directly relates to) Keith saying he suspected and found an Engine Issue on this car (via MAP, kPa). And as far as wiring goes, I have done many remote Holley EFI tunes (mostly on dragbikes I have never seen, let alone touched in person) and the first things I always look for is how "clean or dirty/noisy" their data is and every time I've seen "dirty data" it has always been a wiring issue that usually ends up being (them *not reading or following the instruction* ) = improper grounds or power, and in one case the guy ran his O2 sensor wire right next to his coil wires, back to the ECU. And last but not least, since Holley doesn't have any base configurations for motorcycles, every tune I have ever done has been (similar to what Keith said) "custom built and tuned for each/every engine". And in my case it always starts with me asking them, what's the highest you'll ever rev your engine (13K has been the highest so far) and what's the Max Boost you'll ever run so I can "build their Tables to reflect that" (with as much resolution as possible)...
Very good video. The sniper system isnt perfect, but it is a great system for what it is. Especially paired with the hyperspark. Im kind of sick of so many people bad mouthing it when 99% of the problems they create themselves. Changing from carb to fuel injection does require a little bit of research, attention to detail, and a properly running engine. No matter what system you use. If a person cant do that, then they should just slap an edelbrock on there and live with the part throttle stumble, lack of tuning, and performance that will never be close to optimal.
Just got through with a Pontiac that's got bad RF noise that runs great when we grounded to the battery a Licence Plate bent to a U and surrounded the Dist. Its Crazy, it's got the recommended MSD Wires, Locked out Pro Billet with Phazing rotor all grounds going to the Battery. It would kick the Laptop out and act like you shut it off and turned it right back on in an instant. First clue was the fuel pressure drop for just an instant. Its like its messing with the Pink wire to the relay as a result. I hope the 2 has some filtering in it.
We did the shield trick, definitely shows the RF noise is older cars. The Sniper 2 has moved the ECU to the side, as well as improved circuitry to help filter the RF noise, we will see how well tht works out. We also opted for the PDM to further filter input power noise. Seems like spark plug wires are the biggest issue for sure.
I've had one problem with a 1st gen Sniper and it was a torn injector Oring leaking fuel right out of the box. The rest of the issues always end up being user error or install error. They're using solid core wires still, or they didn't hook it directly to the battery for main power and ground, or their switched ignition isn't powered during cranking. Etc etc. The other main issue is they throw it on and rely too heavily on the "self tuning" capabilities, which they shouldn't. I've seen them trying to correct a +/- 40 fuel trims, need to clean those up and get them right on the base map.
yes, exactly. Worst two issues I found were the o2 dying, and the throttle blades on the secondaries hading open, making it idle too high. Holley has addressed these two issues, as well as using a PDM if purchased to help with electrical noise. Spark plu wires too were a big issue, even without them bing solid core. thanks for the reply
Nothing but problems with my sniper system. Tried all kinds of things to fix it but always has ghost problems. 1970 mustang, twin turbo 347. I had a fitech that ran crazy good but soooooooo hard to start. Holly cold start works great, just kept getting random issues. Some days ran great, but for the most part it was junk. Went back to Carb and runs like a champ. I do miss the tuning ability of the Holley. Had several issues with the hand held crashing on multiple occasions. I ran direct wiring and insulated connections. I wouldn’t mind giving efi another chance but I won’t be a sniper lol. Maybe an HP this time around.
I would definitly step up to an HP system. They used to make a HP stealth throttle body set up that was great. The HP doesn't have the electrical issues the Sniper and Terminator X have, the price reflects the quality.
I subscribed so I could see how it turns out. Blaming the carb is what I used to do when I was drag racing in my teens and 20s. Now that I’m 50 and finally got another 2nd gen Camaro that came to me with “years long carb issues”, was fix everything I could except for the carb. I’m still finding things after 2 years lol. I can only work on it occasionally. Looking forward to more info
Thanks for the reply. It’s definitely a process to fix a 50 year old car with a 50 year old brain. I’m 51. The good news is the basic principals still apply to Efi as carburetors. Ma y people struggle with this because they don’t truely understand the principals involved. Keep watching. I hope to share some of my knowledge before I am completely irrelevant to this world!
I agree with your prognosis. There is no doubt the original Sniper had its shortcomings. But I'd bet 75% of the people that bash the sniper either installed it poorly, or the engine had issues to begin with. Instead of acknowledging it or digging into the problem, they just say it's garbage. I installed the original sniper a couple years ago in my '69 Camaro. Been a decent unit overall. but like you mentioned in the previous video, I've had issues with the secondaries. I've wound the spring an extra turn, recentered the blades, and added a stiffer return spring. The problem eventually came back by the end of cruise season. Drove me nuts. I'm planning on updating to the sniper 2 this year and it should fix that problem once and for all with the upgraded Sniper 2 linkage. I didn't have any other issues but the other common problems (RFI, injectors coming unplugged) were always in the back of my mind. I'll be looking forward to your upcoming reviews.
Don't replace it because of the secondaries. There has to be a way to clearance the butterfly to keep it from doing that. Even if it cause air to bypass, just close the primary one. Maybe a stop on the secondary that keeps it open a bit, then close the primary all the way. I wish I had one on one of my personal vehicles to try these things, most customers we get come from out of the area as well. thanks for your reply we have a new video on tuning just out
Great start for a very useful series. Finally, someone who isn't beholding to a certain supplier that is in a position to tell the truth. Please frame your videos so they show more of the subject. The "bean in a box car" isn't working for the type of information you are dealing with. Otherwise, Keep up the great information flow.
I bought a 350 Camaro IROC off a guy that wouldn’t run right when cold, had a hi idle after warm up, and was a dog in general. I got it pretty cheap too! The problem turned out to be, the guy did a timing chain, and installed the gears a tooth off alignment.
I’ve had my share of problems with my original Sniper, ran fine for awhile and one day ran like flooded, sent it back to Holley and they replaced it with another Sniper, again now it doesn’t run. I’m not getting fuel to the Sniper, replaced the fuel pump and still no fuel pressure. I’m suspecting it’s a signal problem. I’ve had problems with it running lean, never had that problem with a carb, in fact it ran much cooler. If you’re an Old School Hot Rodder, this isn’t the set for you, too complicated. Debating on going back to my Edelbrock carb, never had any problems with that. I came to the conclusion that if you want to convert to EFI, go with an LS motor that was designed from the factory!
That is any easy check. The sniper has a relay with a (blue) I think wire to the fuel pump. turn the key on and see if 12v is going to the fuel pump. If you are running an external pump, they fail A lot due to heat, in tank is ALWAYS better. Likely the flooded condition was the o2 sensor failed. Its not the sensor causing the issue, it is the Holley, I haven't been told what causes that.
We did a boat. It was a 351 Ford in a ski boat. It was already a fuel injected boat, so the fuel tank was set up well. The big issue can be fuel delivery on a boat. We used a special fitting for the wbo2 for the exhaust because of the water, the harp part was getting it to the lake to tune it. It all worked pretty well in the end. Similar to a car.
If you are talking Sniper 1, there really isn't anything you can do. The design has too many flaws to even use. Sometimes they work, and other times they do not. We have found that replacing them with the Sniper 2 is the only option. Contact Holley ASAP if you want to trade it in, you didn't hear that from me, shhhh
@@stephanalexanderhattingh9890 If you decide to buy a sniper 2 please contact us. We are a dealer. stay away from the sniper 1 at any price. All others are just as bad. Sniper 2 seems like they addressed all the previous issues.
should be ok. I address this in the next video we should have out in about a week. Changing the scale on the fuel and ignition maps will help due to the fact those cams make less vacuum. Watch it!
We are in Chico CA. Your engine is exactly what these were designed for. Long term results aren't in, but knowing the lengths Holley went to to make the Sniper issues go away tell me it should be a really good product. Contact us if you want to order one, we can offer a lot of service to go along with it. thanks for watching We have some more videos on our channel about it since this one btw
I agree. My point is that people have issues like this prior to putting a Sniper on their car. Many swaps are inspired because of an ill running engine, like in this case. The result is bashing the Sniper for not making the car run amazing. I have the statistics from the 100 or so of these I have worked on to show that other than the sticking secondary throttle blades, continuously dying 02 sensors, and Ford related electrical noise, the bulk of the problem have been related to poor installation, and/or pre-existing engine issues
holley stuff is j7ust *rap cheap soft thermoplastics that don't belong in an engine compartment they just melt and the tps doesn't hold adjustment maybe if the parts were cermet plastic just junk. just don't
Great video. I have a sniper stealth I installed. So far, so good. What I tell people is you can’t follow Holley’s marketing on this. You are buying a relatively sophisticated digital engine management system with zero diagnostic capability that is going to control air, fuel, timing and temperature based on lowest bid sensors to arrive at a price point to complete with a carb. As such, you need to have a clean modern electrical system, clean modern fuel system and air tight intake and exhaust sealing. You try to bolt it on to the repaired manifold you bought on marketplace along with the rusty warped 30 year old cyclone headers and hook it into your 50 year old, spliced together wiring harness, hook up 4 wires and think you are going to be good, you will probably be putting a carb back on it after a week. Be prepared to spend as much in support parts as you did for the Sniper itself. At least that’s how it worked for me.
Excellent advice!! I was having strange issues with my Sniper 1. One day, car would run like a DREAM, next day, mis-fires, and no power. FIX: Replaced ignition cables with top of the line 10MM shielded Taylor cables.
we have a video coming out next week. There really is no fix for the Sniper 1, but I will tell you what to do!
I'm running a stout 427W stroker, and I installed a Sniper Stealth. I spent a month making sure my electrical system was Sniper-ready even before taking the old carb off. I'd read about the sub-par regulator in the square Sniper, and saw a lot of Ford guys having RFI issues with it, and that's what dove me to get the Stealth. It's been running fine for almost two years.
glad to hear. I thought they should have just upgraded the electronics on the Stealth anyway, it looks better than the other Snipers for sure.
Would building a box for the "carb" that sealed to the hood help with rfi noise?
@@henrymeynier5072 maybe, but spark plug wires with good suppression and plugs as well, sheild between distributor and throttle body, don't run spark plug wires near sniper wires etc, will reduce this.
This is great info. I've installed dozens and dozens of snipers and not really had too many issues to lately. Combination of previous vehicle build and park quality.. your videos are very informative
thanks. I appreciate that. we will do a follow up on the Sniper 2 soon. Please like and subscribe
Great information Keith.
For those that aren't old enough to know, 'back in the old days' *Vacuum Gauges* were one of the few "engine diagnostic tools" that
were available to the general public (which directly relates to) Keith saying he suspected and found an Engine Issue on this car (via MAP, kPa).
And as far as wiring goes, I have done many remote Holley EFI tunes (mostly on dragbikes I have never seen, let alone touched in person)
and the first things I always look for is how "clean or dirty/noisy" their data is and every time I've seen "dirty data" it has always been a wiring
issue that usually ends up being (them *not reading or following the instruction* ) = improper grounds or power, and in one case the guy ran his
O2 sensor wire right next to his coil wires, back to the ECU.
And last but not least, since Holley doesn't have any base configurations for motorcycles, every tune I have ever done has been (similar to what Keith said)
"custom built and tuned for each/every engine". And in my case it always starts with me asking them, what's the highest you'll ever rev your engine
(13K has been the highest so far) and what's the Max Boost you'll ever run so I can "build their Tables to reflect that" (with as much resolution as possible)...
Interesting to see the sniper being used on a bike. I love the old vacuum gauge tuning. Thanks for the good words and watching my crappy videos!
Appreciate the honesty and looking forward to next videos. Getting ready to install Sniper 2 on my 2nd Gen
Thanks for the quick reply. I’m also in California Central Valley. I’ll definitely let you know thanks again.
Very good video. The sniper system isnt perfect, but it is a great system for what it is. Especially paired with the hyperspark. Im kind of sick of so many people bad mouthing it when 99% of the problems they create themselves. Changing from carb to fuel injection does require a little bit of research, attention to detail, and a properly running engine. No matter what system you use. If a person cant do that, then they should just slap an edelbrock on there and live with the part throttle stumble, lack of tuning, and performance that will never be close to optimal.
couldnt agree more. Hopefully the new version proves to be dependable.
Bwahahahaha someone can't tune a carb😂😂😂
@@asherdie most people cant. Thats why edelbrocks are so popular.
Just got through with a Pontiac that's got bad RF noise that runs great when we grounded to the battery a Licence Plate bent to a U and surrounded the Dist. Its Crazy, it's got the recommended MSD Wires, Locked out Pro Billet with Phazing rotor all grounds going to the Battery. It would kick the Laptop out and act like you shut it off and turned it right back on in an instant. First clue was the fuel pressure drop for just an instant. Its like its messing with the Pink wire to the relay as a result. I hope the 2 has some filtering in it.
We did the shield trick, definitely shows the RF noise is older cars. The Sniper 2 has moved the ECU to the side, as well as improved circuitry to help filter the RF noise, we will see how well tht works out. We also opted for the PDM to further filter input power noise. Seems like spark plug wires are the biggest issue for sure.
I've had one problem with a 1st gen Sniper and it was a torn injector Oring leaking fuel right out of the box. The rest of the issues always end up being user error or install error. They're using solid core wires still, or they didn't hook it directly to the battery for main power and ground, or their switched ignition isn't powered during cranking. Etc etc.
The other main issue is they throw it on and rely too heavily on the "self tuning" capabilities, which they shouldn't. I've seen them trying to correct a +/- 40 fuel trims, need to clean those up and get them right on the base map.
yes, exactly. Worst two issues I found were the o2 dying, and the throttle blades on the secondaries hading open, making it idle too high. Holley has addressed these two issues, as well as using a PDM if purchased to help with electrical noise. Spark plu wires too were a big issue, even without them bing solid core. thanks for the reply
Nothing but problems with my sniper system. Tried all kinds of things to fix it but always has ghost problems. 1970 mustang, twin turbo 347. I had a fitech that ran crazy good but soooooooo hard to start. Holly cold start works great, just kept getting random issues. Some days ran great, but for the most part it was junk. Went back to Carb and runs like a champ. I do miss the tuning ability of the Holley. Had several issues with the hand held crashing on multiple occasions. I ran direct wiring and insulated connections. I wouldn’t mind giving efi another chance but I won’t be a sniper lol. Maybe an HP this time around.
I would definitly step up to an HP system. They used to make a HP stealth throttle body set up that was great. The HP doesn't have the electrical issues the Sniper and Terminator X have, the price reflects the quality.
I subscribed so I could see how it turns out. Blaming the carb is what I used to do when I was drag racing in my teens and 20s. Now that I’m 50 and finally got another 2nd gen Camaro that came to me with “years long carb issues”, was fix everything I could except for the carb. I’m still finding things after 2 years lol. I can only work on it occasionally. Looking forward to more info
Thanks for the reply. It’s definitely a process to fix a 50 year old car with a 50 year old brain. I’m 51. The good news is the basic principals still apply to Efi as carburetors. Ma y people struggle with this because they don’t truely understand the principals involved. Keep watching. I hope to share some of my knowledge before I am completely irrelevant to this world!
I agree with your prognosis. There is no doubt the original Sniper had its shortcomings. But I'd bet 75% of the people that bash the sniper either installed it poorly, or the engine had issues to begin with. Instead of acknowledging it or digging into the problem, they just say it's garbage.
I installed the original sniper a couple years ago in my '69 Camaro. Been a decent unit overall. but like you mentioned in the previous video, I've had issues with the secondaries. I've wound the spring an extra turn, recentered the blades, and added a stiffer return spring. The problem eventually came back by the end of cruise season. Drove me nuts. I'm planning on updating to the sniper 2 this year and it should fix that problem once and for all with the upgraded Sniper 2 linkage. I didn't have any other issues but the other common problems (RFI, injectors coming unplugged) were always in the back of my mind. I'll be looking forward to your upcoming reviews.
Don't replace it because of the secondaries. There has to be a way to clearance the butterfly to keep it from doing that. Even if it cause air to bypass, just close the primary one. Maybe a stop on the secondary that keeps it open a bit, then close the primary all the way. I wish I had one on one of my personal vehicles to try these things, most customers we get come from out of the area as well. thanks for your reply we have a new video on tuning just out
Great start for a very useful series. Finally, someone who isn't beholding to a certain supplier that is in a position to tell the truth. Please frame your videos so they show more of the subject. The "bean in a box car" isn't working for the type of information you are dealing with. Otherwise, Keep up the great information flow.
Would you recommend the Sniper 2 for a 1962 corvette 327/340 hp 4 barrel Carter AFB with a generator?
I will have a new video next week. Please watch and subscribe. It will help you with
Your decision
I bought a 350 Camaro IROC off a guy that wouldn’t run right when cold, had a hi idle after warm up, and was a dog in general. I got it pretty cheap too! The problem turned out to be, the guy did a timing chain, and installed the gears a tooth off alignment.
The real question is what do you run in your classic vehicle? Carb or EFI?
I’ve had my share of problems with my original Sniper, ran fine for awhile and one day ran like flooded, sent it back to Holley and they replaced it with another Sniper, again now it doesn’t run. I’m not getting fuel to the Sniper, replaced the fuel pump and still no fuel pressure. I’m suspecting it’s a signal problem. I’ve had problems with it running lean, never had that problem with a carb, in fact it ran much cooler. If you’re an Old School Hot Rodder, this isn’t the set for you, too complicated. Debating on going back to my Edelbrock carb, never had any problems with that.
I came to the conclusion that if you want to convert to EFI, go with an LS motor that was designed from the factory!
That is any easy check. The sniper has a relay with a (blue) I think wire to the fuel pump. turn the key on and see if 12v is going to the fuel pump. If you are running an external pump, they fail A lot due to heat, in tank is ALWAYS better. Likely the flooded condition was the o2 sensor failed. Its not the sensor causing the issue, it is the Holley, I haven't been told what causes that.
I want to see more people be successful with sniper 2 marine applications. I have a boat with twin 454 carbed
We did a boat. It was a 351 Ford in a ski boat. It was already a fuel injected boat, so the fuel tank was set up well. The big issue can be fuel delivery on a boat. We used a special fitting for the wbo2 for the exhaust because of the water, the harp part was getting it to the lake to tune it. It all worked pretty well in the end. Similar to a car.
Will it help if you Cerakote the sniper casing? Or what could one use to insulate the ecu from the electrical noise?
If you are talking Sniper 1, there really isn't anything you can do. The design has too many flaws to even use. Sometimes they work, and other times they do not. We have found that replacing them with the Sniper 2 is the only option. Contact Holley ASAP if you want to trade it in, you didn't hear that from me, shhhh
I havent bought any of their efi systems yet, just asking ?s to make informed decisions before I concider it
@@stephanalexanderhattingh9890 If you decide to buy a sniper 2 please contact us. We are a dealer. stay away from the sniper 1 at any price. All others are just as bad. Sniper 2 seems like they addressed all the previous issues.
What are your thoughts about using these efi systems with 106,108 lsa camshafts?
should be ok. I address this in the next video we should have out in about a week. Changing the scale on the fuel and ignition maps will help due to the fact those cams make less vacuum. Watch it!
That’s for all your information where is your shop? Would you recommend one in a 64ss Impala OG 327 mild cam and Aluminum heads
We are in Chico CA. Your engine is exactly what these were designed for. Long term results aren't in, but knowing the lengths Holley went to to make the Sniper issues go away tell me it should be a really good product. Contact us if you want to order one, we can offer a lot of service to go along with it. thanks for watching We have some more videos on our channel about it since this one btw
beautiful car, incredible the rocker arm mixup and bad valve adjustment. That's just basic engine diagnostics that someone should have figured out.
I agree. My point is that people have issues like this prior to putting a Sniper on their car. Many swaps are inspired because of an ill running engine, like in this case. The result is bashing the Sniper for not making the car run amazing. I have the statistics from the 100 or so of these I have worked on to show that other than the sticking secondary throttle blades, continuously dying 02 sensors, and Ford related electrical noise, the bulk of the problem have been related to poor installation, and/or pre-existing engine issues
Volume os so low I cannot hear it clearly!! :(
sorry my production crew is limited
Lookin at comments the one i have might not get out of the box..😂😂😂
There may be some great info in your videos but the audio is terrible.
yeah, I get it. I'm not quiting my day job anytime soon!
holley stuff is j7ust *rap cheap soft thermoplastics that don't belong in an engine compartment they just melt and the tps doesn't hold adjustment maybe if the parts were cermet plastic just junk. just don't
You have to admit. Aces has a much better product
I wouldn’t know. Aces declined my offer to test out their similar product. I do know the fitech is not very good
Geesh. Talk less and get to it will ya? 😅
Sorry for your free information.