Thanks for this test. Fortunately, i anticipated that and i made myself a full enclosure with filtration and an extraction ventilator.. i prefer to have those particules away from my lungs 😅
Holy cow. Scary to see how high the particulate matter is! Sadly I don't think a lot of backers appreciate the safety concerns with open lasers like this that aren't properly ventilated. Thanks for the demo!
Agreed, which is why I made the video. It is unfortunate that the marketing teams behind these open frame engravers are not at all forthcoming about the need for enclosures, exhaust, etc
yup @@geeksatlarge why I didn't back it and won't buy an open laser. I saw another on there from Wainlux that's enclosed with separate ventilation unit, but I would still have my doubts. Also looking at all their past campaigns their delivery record is TERRIBLE so I'd steer clear until it's on the market and some else can test it.
@@GoDuffdaddy LOL Wainlux..... Them and Mr Carve are like peas in a pod. Pump it and dump it. But in general, open frame lasers do just fine if one takes adequate precautions when setting them up and using them. Fireproof bed (which many vendors include with the product), fireproof enclosure, and a decent extraction setup. I say decent, because the tiny PC fans on the off the shelf enclosures are marketing bullet points rather than functional. For enclosed all in one units like the TwoTrees TS3, Roly Lasermatic10, etc, these due pretty ok, but not perfect. As an example, the TS3 doesn't have air instakes, leaving its dual high CFM fans choking on themselves.
Thanks for the actual test. I wasn't sure the tiny filter would be any help so I'm glad I ordered mine straight up with an enclosure, a powerful extractor fan and tubing. As well as a big air purifier just to be sure.
You betcha! Note on air purifiers, unless you're getting a big ol' industrial grade one, they can't keep up with the amount of stuff that a laser engraver can kick out. They're designed for small volume over time, not heaps of volume rapidly.
Hi Cobey. Thanks for all your videos. I understand from your feedbacks that the safety assets and material quality are not there. But in term of work quality result, is it nice? If yes, then I assume some additional things could compensate the negative aspects. For example regarding the particles in the air from this video, would an enclosure solves the problem? If yes, the one from Elegoo would be OK or another one? We can expect from this KS a new wave of newbies like me. Feedbacks from experienced people are a gift to avoid injuries. Thanks.
Hey there! All very good questions, thanks for bringing them up! Work quality: While I haven't gone nitty-gritty with results examination and dialing in yet, the off the cuff works I've done so far are of passable quality for the 10W (20W was mounted this morning, no results yet). You can see some examples on the Geeks At Large Facebook page as well as Elegoo's Facebook group where I've been posting images. Negative aspects: Most 'negative aspects' can be compensated for, are not things that directly effect the work itself, and/or are totally normal for most every open frame laser engraver on the market. For example, the LCD being taped to the frame instead of mounted properly is not going to change the detail level the laser module is capable of or the movement resolution the mechanics are capable of. Specifically related to this video, that the machine throws off hazardous levels of particles is normal for all laser engravers. I know this, because I have years and years of experience with these types of machines. But new/potential owners usually do not - they saw the product marketing and maybe a couple of Elegoo affiliated TH-camrs who told them about how cool the filtration is. I made video for those folks. One last thing, as it's come up with machines from other manufacturers. I don't hate Elegoo, I don't hate Elegoo products. I'm honest about what I see with both, which isn't always in their favor
Hi! Really sad to hear that the result quality is bad :( I know KS is a gamble but I was relying on all the positive feedbacks about Elegoo. I am on the FB group but it's not the same between pictures and be able to manipulate a real piece of work. The pictures seemed good !
@@TitiOlive30 so far, yes, the results are coming in as expected. With some tuning of my settings to match the machine more specifically, I expect some improvement to take place
Hi Cobey! I recently bought one of these. The machine sits in a room wıth a door that opens to balcony. So fresh air but my lungs kinda hurt after a day of using. Do you think balcony door is enough or should I buy a ventilation unıt(open for suggestions). And onr more thing: how did you manage the pump cable? It bumps to the side and offsets the machine. I cant find your vıdeo about custom rack on facebook group. Thanks in advance
Yeah the Carbon filter wont do much wrt PM and it's really the nasty volatile organics it will be adsorbing hence the TVOC mg/m3 reading I can see is probably what we should be really be looking over different materials. Would be interested to see how effective the carbon filter is by turning it's fan off and/or removing the activated carbon with different target materials and what happens to TVOC... PM was capped out already. Ultimately I consider lasers like this need an enclosure and extraction so considering the price of these entry level lasers you can still buy a good extraction system and buy/build an enclosure and still be significantly undercutting the competition without any extraction. Elegoo did offer a basic entry level enclosure during the end phase of the KS so coupling this with a decent inline fan is the way to go for most. Still Elegoo did try to imply the filter allowed you to sit and drink Coffee next to the machine as it ran.. but only a small number of people believed this hence the comments section full of requests to add an enclosure....
I hear ya. Unfortunately, my experience with new owners over the last decade, (especially the last two years when ownership became trendy), is that for every one new owner who took the time to learn and understands the needs related to ownership, there are >100 who saw the commercials/ads and bought. :(
Thanks for this test, i actually got the bundle with 5 extra filters which i now see are a waste of space. Gonna need an enclosure and very good extraction system. What air monitor do you use?
You betcha! I'm currently use an off the shelf one from Amazon which has relay triggers built into it. These triggers can be used to kick on fans, humidifiers, etc depending on which alarm is going off.
Ugh - mine was just delivered today - my first ever laser - I live/work in a 1500 sf open loft (former factory) 15’ ceilings - what can I do to make sure I am using this safely and don’t kill myself or my 16yr old Pomeranian?
@@geeksatlarge I have windows that open but they are awning/case type windows, so it’s a extra large window that opens by cranking the thingy and the whole windows opens sideways - it’s not like a regular window where I can just open 10” and install some flex duct 🤦🏽♀️
Unfortunately, that isn't my experience across the many, many different groups on Facebook. Just as there is a portion of the new owners don't want to see/hear/smell it, there is the other portion who wants to fight about it anything related to their safety. That later group goes on to encourage the still newer owners to skip things like enclosures entirely. On the flip side, there is a portion who needs all the things, all the accessories. They pick up any bundled enclosure because it's there
I'm not surprise about that, it looked like a gimmick from the start. I wish they abandoned the idea to concentrate on other aspects of the machine. I personnally bought an third party enclosure (their enclosure is more a cover) for any wood engraving.
Mfff wrrr rrrrt buuuu grfffff. The audio is useless but I gather from the air quality monitor that you are unhappy about the tiny filter not allowing you to burn wood in your home. Yeah, the little filter is kind of a joke. A laser cutter needs an enclosure and it needs to vent the smoke outdoors. That little filter isn't going to do anything when burning wood. Most people are going to use a laser engraver like this in a ventilated garage and woodworkers are already familiar with vacuuming systems to remove sawdust. Some light engraving won't generate much smoke or fumes. I plan on lightly engraving TPU. If I melt it to change the surface finish without burning it, it may only produce a slight polyurethane smell. For anything more than a small one-off engraving, I'll use the laser engraver outside or vent it outside. I'm also not trusting what passes for laser exposure guarding on the Phecda, so that's part of the custom enclosure I'll be making as well.
@@geeksatlarge - I have hundreds of hours experience using and maintaining a Universal Laser Systems 40W CO2 VersaLaser, so I don't expect a laser not to produce a lot of smoke. The Phecda's little filter is obviously a joke from the Elegoo marketing department. You do make a very good point about Elegoo marketing the Phecda laser engraver to consumers with no laser experience and the little filter is a false sense of security, as is what passes for laser guarding. I just ordered a 10W Phecda and it'll be here in two days. Gotta love Amazon for nearly instantaneous gratification. I'm playing with Inkscape and trying to generate files the Phecda can use, but there's not much useful info for open source tools under Linux. Most of the videos are LightBurn or LaserGRBL under Windows.
If you can afford better one buy better one. Bunch of you just bitching for no apparent reason while not being even affor this one. Ever heard about opening window and door so all fumes go out? How do you thing mechanics or welders work? Think before saying anything. This test proves nothing new
I don't understand this angry comment. There are clear safety concerns using lasers, this product is targeting users wo experience. Adding this tiny filter can mislead users into believing they are safe and they are not, they need to take more measures. That's it what this video is about. The point is that this filter is not enough to make it safe to use, proper ventilation is needed.
Fred You are right and I'm glad someone speaks out.Enclosure costs $40 on Amazon which solves the problem. And I don't need troll sitting in a basement with his mum's air quality monitor doing sudo science to tell me otherwise. Don't worry about stupid comments as they all watching Thier expensive CO2 laser investments go down the drain😂
Thanks for this test. Fortunately, i anticipated that and i made myself a full enclosure with filtration and an extraction ventilator.. i prefer to have those particules away from my lungs 😅
Holy cow. Scary to see how high the particulate matter is! Sadly I don't think a lot of backers appreciate the safety concerns with open lasers like this that aren't properly ventilated. Thanks for the demo!
Agreed, which is why I made the video. It is unfortunate that the marketing teams behind these open frame engravers are not at all forthcoming about the need for enclosures, exhaust, etc
yup @@geeksatlarge why I didn't back it and won't buy an open laser. I saw another on there from Wainlux that's enclosed with separate ventilation unit, but I would still have my doubts. Also looking at all their past campaigns their delivery record is TERRIBLE so I'd steer clear until it's on the market and some else can test it.
oh and where did you get your air meter? is it good?
@@GoDuffdaddy LOL Wainlux..... Them and Mr Carve are like peas in a pod. Pump it and dump it.
But in general, open frame lasers do just fine if one takes adequate precautions when setting them up and using them. Fireproof bed (which many vendors include with the product), fireproof enclosure, and a decent extraction setup. I say decent, because the tiny PC fans on the off the shelf enclosures are marketing bullet points rather than functional.
For enclosed all in one units like the TwoTrees TS3, Roly Lasermatic10, etc, these due pretty ok, but not perfect. As an example, the TS3 doesn't have air instakes, leaving its dual high CFM fans choking on themselves.
Thanks for the actual test. I wasn't sure the tiny filter would be any help so I'm glad I ordered mine straight up with an enclosure, a powerful extractor fan and tubing. As well as a big air purifier just to be sure.
You betcha! Note on air purifiers, unless you're getting a big ol' industrial grade one, they can't keep up with the amount of stuff that a laser engraver can kick out. They're designed for small volume over time, not heaps of volume rapidly.
Fantastic video Colby!
Thank you :)
Hi Cobey. Thanks for all your videos. I understand from your feedbacks that the safety assets and material quality are not there. But in term of work quality result, is it nice? If yes, then I assume some additional things could compensate the negative aspects. For example regarding the particles in the air from this video, would an enclosure solves the problem? If yes, the one from Elegoo would be OK or another one?
We can expect from this KS a new wave of newbies like me. Feedbacks from experienced people are a gift to avoid injuries. Thanks.
Hey there! All very good questions, thanks for bringing them up!
Work quality: While I haven't gone nitty-gritty with results examination and dialing in yet, the off the cuff works I've done so far are of passable quality for the 10W (20W was mounted this morning, no results yet). You can see some examples on the Geeks At Large Facebook page as well as Elegoo's Facebook group where I've been posting images.
Negative aspects: Most 'negative aspects' can be compensated for, are not things that directly effect the work itself, and/or are totally normal for most every open frame laser engraver on the market. For example, the LCD being taped to the frame instead of mounted properly is not going to change the detail level the laser module is capable of or the movement resolution the mechanics are capable of.
Specifically related to this video, that the machine throws off hazardous levels of particles is normal for all laser engravers. I know this, because I have years and years of experience with these types of machines. But new/potential owners usually do not - they saw the product marketing and maybe a couple of Elegoo affiliated TH-camrs who told them about how cool the filtration is. I made video for those folks.
One last thing, as it's come up with machines from other manufacturers. I don't hate Elegoo, I don't hate Elegoo products. I'm honest about what I see with both, which isn't always in their favor
Hi! Really sad to hear that the result quality is bad :( I know KS is a gamble but I was relying on all the positive feedbacks about Elegoo.
I am on the FB group but it's not the same between pictures and be able to manipulate a real piece of work. The pictures seemed good !
@@TitiOlive30 so far, yes, the results are coming in as expected. With some tuning of my settings to match the machine more specifically, I expect some improvement to take place
Great test, but wow. Glad your wearing PPE
Hi Cobey! I recently bought one of these. The machine sits in a room wıth a door that opens to balcony. So fresh air but my lungs kinda hurt after a day of using. Do you think balcony door is enough or should I buy a ventilation unıt(open for suggestions). And onr more thing: how did you manage the pump cable? It bumps to the side and offsets the machine. I cant find your vıdeo about custom rack on facebook group. Thanks in advance
This makes me wonder.
Is having it right next to a window with a double fan blowing out going to be enough?
Not likely, no. This is why enclosures are important.
@@geeksatlarge ya. When I backed I.also got the enclosure. But it looks like that is still 2 months away.
@@Xanthira222 You will probably want to start looking for a good extraction fan as well.
@@geeksatlarge any recommendations?
Yeah the Carbon filter wont do much wrt PM and it's really the nasty volatile organics it will be adsorbing hence the TVOC mg/m3 reading I can see is probably what we should be really be looking over different materials.
Would be interested to see how effective the carbon filter is by turning it's fan off and/or removing the activated carbon with different target materials and what happens to TVOC... PM was capped out already.
Ultimately I consider lasers like this need an enclosure and extraction so considering the price of these entry level lasers you can still buy a good extraction system and buy/build an enclosure and still be significantly undercutting the competition without any extraction.
Elegoo did offer a basic entry level enclosure during the end phase of the KS so coupling this with a decent inline fan is the way to go for most. Still Elegoo did try to imply the filter allowed you to sit and drink Coffee next to the machine as it ran.. but only a small number of people believed this hence the comments section full of requests to add an enclosure....
I hear ya. Unfortunately, my experience with new owners over the last decade, (especially the last two years when ownership became trendy), is that for every one new owner who took the time to learn and understands the needs related to ownership, there are >100 who saw the commercials/ads and bought. :(
I just got mine this weekend. What laser did you choose for your lightburn device?
Since mine was missing the SD card, I manually added it as a GRBL machine and plugged in the relevant numbers
Thanks for this test, i actually got the bundle with 5 extra filters which i now see are a waste of space. Gonna need an enclosure and very good extraction system. What air monitor do you use?
You betcha! I'm currently use an off the shelf one from Amazon which has relay triggers built into it. These triggers can be used to kick on fans, humidifiers, etc depending on which alarm is going off.
Ugh - mine was just delivered today - my first ever laser - I live/work in a 1500 sf open loft (former factory) 15’ ceilings - what can I do to make sure I am using this safely and don’t kill myself or my 16yr old Pomeranian?
First question would be if you have windows which open. If no, do you have access to the roof vents, which are typically part of factory construction?
@@geeksatlarge I have windows that open but they are awning/case type windows, so it’s a extra large window that opens by cranking the thingy and the whole windows opens sideways - it’s not like a regular window where I can just open 10” and install some flex duct 🤦🏽♀️
@@artistlofts726 Ah, old school windows that open out? With or without screens?
@@geeksatlarge no screens 🤦🏽♀️
Excellent performance test.
Thank you! I hope it's helpful
Almost everyone I have seen use a diode laser has it inside an enclosure with exhaust fans or some type of filtration system.
Unfortunately, that isn't my experience across the many, many different groups on Facebook. Just as there is a portion of the new owners don't want to see/hear/smell it, there is the other portion who wants to fight about it anything related to their safety. That later group goes on to encourage the still newer owners to skip things like enclosures entirely.
On the flip side, there is a portion who needs all the things, all the accessories. They pick up any bundled enclosure because it's there
I'm not surprise about that, it looked like a gimmick from the start. I wish they abandoned the idea to concentrate on other aspects of the machine.
I personnally bought an third party enclosure (their enclosure is more a cover) for any wood engraving.
Me either, but doing a video showing it saves me from having to argue with new owners who bought the filter idea hook, line, and sinker.
Mfff wrrr rrrrt buuuu grfffff.
The audio is useless but I gather from the air quality monitor that you are unhappy about the tiny filter not allowing you to burn wood in your home. Yeah, the little filter is kind of a joke. A laser cutter needs an enclosure and it needs to vent the smoke outdoors. That little filter isn't going to do anything when burning wood. Most people are going to use a laser engraver like this in a ventilated garage and woodworkers are already familiar with vacuuming systems to remove sawdust. Some light engraving won't generate much smoke or fumes. I plan on lightly engraving TPU. If I melt it to change the surface finish without burning it, it may only produce a slight polyurethane smell. For anything more than a small one-off engraving, I'll use the laser engraver outside or vent it outside. I'm also not trusting what passes for laser exposure guarding on the Phecda, so that's part of the custom enclosure I'll be making as well.
Glad you found the information useful
@@geeksatlarge - I have hundreds of hours experience using and maintaining a Universal Laser Systems 40W CO2 VersaLaser, so I don't expect a laser not to produce a lot of smoke. The Phecda's little filter is obviously a joke from the Elegoo marketing department. You do make a very good point about Elegoo marketing the Phecda laser engraver to consumers with no laser experience and the little filter is a false sense of security, as is what passes for laser guarding.
I just ordered a 10W Phecda and it'll be here in two days. Gotta love Amazon for nearly instantaneous gratification. I'm playing with Inkscape and trying to generate files the Phecda can use, but there's not much useful info for open source tools under Linux. Most of the videos are LightBurn or LaserGRBL under Windows.
If you can afford better one buy better one. Bunch of you just bitching for no apparent reason while not being even affor this one. Ever heard about opening window and door so all fumes go out? How do you thing mechanics or welders work? Think before saying anything. This test proves nothing new
Please consider taking your own advice, and have a nice day!
I don't understand this angry comment. There are clear safety concerns using lasers, this product is targeting users wo experience. Adding this tiny filter can mislead users into believing they are safe and they are not, they need to take more measures. That's it what this video is about. The point is that this filter is not enough to make it safe to use, proper ventilation is needed.
Fred You are right and I'm glad someone speaks out.Enclosure costs $40 on Amazon which solves the problem. And I don't need troll sitting in a basement with his mum's air quality monitor doing sudo science to tell me otherwise.
Don't worry about stupid comments as they all watching Thier expensive CO2 laser investments go down the drain😂