Since I have no idea if YT even allows me to comment or if my comments vanish forever, I'll just repost this here as an "answer": C-RAM(aka land version of CIWS) surprisingly fits onto the same platfrom as MLRS, that uses slightly elongated Bradley chassis as base. I would have suggested also replacing the autocannon with Rolling Airframe Missile launcher to maximise cool factor as it uses the same mount as CIWS/C-RAM. Linebacker doesn't have to return. Arm Bradley with ADATS in place of TOW-2 and ever Bradley becomes Linebacker. Or, considering that army tried to replace TOW-2 with Hellfire 2 and at the same time develop SAM based on Hellfire 2, roll them into new smaller Hellfire 2 based ADATS 2. And then strap it to Bradley. To deal with FPV drones the only thing needed is to slave RWS to APS sensors. I'm yet to see a quadcopter that can keep flying after getting hit with .308 If we talk about bigger drones though, then ideal solution is somewhere between russian Pantsir-M, german AHEAD ammo and american CIWS/CRAM software. The issue is that for too long the close range air defense ignored munitions ie ATGMs, AGMs, guided bombs and many others. And instead focused only on their carriers. But stand off distances increased and munition costs decreased and now the truth is that you don't need to compare the price of ammo of your SPAA to enemy munitions carriers ie planes and helis, but the price of YOUR assets that you are afraid to lose. Now the job of close range SPAAG is to intercept ALL "fires", not just planes. ^wall of text brought to you by paranoia birthed out of YT shadowbanning and/or glitched to no end platform.
Why aren't shot-shells an option against drones? Wouldn't saturating the sky with buck or birdshot work better than firing huge projectiles that are way overkill for tiny drones?
I was reading this at beginning of video with the pulling down of the saddam statue, he had one hand in the air. I imagine a statue similar to that with motorized fist shaking and head spinning like radar satellite dish. Mounted on tank chassis,obviously. Should work flawlessly
"Why does the anti-drone laser have a bunch spinning laser tubes? "Boys at the R&D lost a bet with marketing and had to make it look like a gatling gun" "Looks wicked, ship it!"
The Gepard is a bit of a sleeper, not well known by the general public. The 30 mm caliber is in the compromise zone between the rate of fire and shrapnel effect, but the service record seems to vindicate the choice. Being a classic weapons system, it still is a beast in its niche.
@@d.o.g573 Thanks for setting the record straight. The 5 mm may seem on the surface inconsequential, but that's in linear approximation more than +50% in projectile weight.
@@mattilindstrom I can tell you that the Effect those rounds have even against Tanks is in some sense kinda Insane... Like the rounds are able to Pen the Tops of tanks (from shooting at it from the front) and the rounds kinda digs into the Armor and then Explodes so its even a kinda good Cal. for shooting IFVs and such (even like smaller boats)
Ukrainian soldiers who operate it love it because it can destroy drones efficiently, Germany also cooked up a new system that’s currently ground based but I can see them mounting it.
I heard alot of dudes entered thinking stuff from various futuristic soldier program would be widely adopted around the corner, allowing them to play Ghost Recon irl, however they went through service with basically upgraded stuff of what their father carried
Haven't watched alot of this guys stuff but personally I get what you mean so many guys cover this shit with almost zero knowledge and than openly glorify deaths as if that helps anyone
Hi Justin, just a correction to what you said at 4:26 about the Tunguska having an X-band whilst the Gepard having the S-band radar. Both the Tunguska and the Gepard have two separate radar systems, one for target acquisition and one for target tracking. With radar in general, the higher the frequency the radio wave, the better tracking you can get in terms of position and velocity and such. The problem is that signals attenuate more rapidly as they get higher in frequency whilst also interacting more with weather and other clutter. So to get around this, you can have two radar system, one to find the vague general area that operates at a lower frequency (the spinny one) and one that focuses all the radio energy to where the acquisition radar thinks the target is, at a higher frequency. For the Gepard, the acquisition radar operates in S-band as you mentioned (1.55 to 3.9 GHz) whilst the tracking radar is Ku band (10.9 to 20 GHz). The Tunguska on the other hand has its acquisition radar operate at E-band (2 to 3 GHz) and the tracking radar at J-band (10 to 20 GHz). (dont ask why the different band names overlap the same frequencies, NATO keeps changing its mind about things)a
@@wound957ruralapex The Pantsir is also outdated and totally incapable of dealing with micro drones and even SCALP storm shadow but NATO nations spent zero money to replace their own SHORAD (Rapier, Roland, Crotal) so Russia has the 'better' but still effective weapon in the ridiculous Pantsir. The lack of SHORAD is why Ukrainian Leopards and Abrams were knocked of at long range by Russian attack helicopters with long range ATGM like Vikhr. Please note politicians in Europe and US who neglected this area are still around. -Pantisir by combining guns and missiles makes itself bulk and easy to detect, twin guns are less accurate than single. The lack of air burst makes the Pantsir guns extremely outmoded. Skyranger is the way to do it.
@williamzk9083 you are wrong pantzirs prooved on film that scalps, stormshadows, drones and any mlrs are perfectly interceptable. I do not understand why do you trash pantzirs so much, it has the capability to fire air burst, but they just do not have them, usually military tech is alright, because it was done by smart people, unless you just want to hate
What makes the Gepard so special is the incredible turret turning rate. At top speed it can rotate its entire turret in less than 3 seconds 360° including raising the guns to nearly vertical. That's also the reason for the two 'cozy' seats. They are aligned as close to the center point of the rotation axis of the turret to subject the two positions to the least amount of g-forces and disorientation due to spinning. If you can target-lock seagulls any drones capable of damaging vehicles are easy targets as they tend to be larger and less streamlined. The Skynex or the Skyranger are the immobile and mobile successors to the Gepard. With their AHEAD ammo they are able to take down multiple drones in close proximity with a single salvo. The AHEAD ammo explodes in a cloud of tungsten subpenetrators that destroys anything in the area of detonation. Each individual shot is programmed when leaving the barrel by electromagnetic induction to detonate shortly before intercepting the target(s). That makes the next generation of these SPAAGs perfect anti-drone area denial defense systems. Their C5 equipment allows them to link with radar systems real-time anywhere in the vicinity making them far less likely to be targeted by radar-seeking missiles. Their targeting systems are so good that they can target individual mortar shells mid flight.
@RustyDust101 the turn rate is even more incredible when you know the turret weights 15t. When I was in the army I was in the maintenance team of the Gepard. At that time it had an analog computer. For 60s technology this tank was incredible. AFAIK it takes only 5-6 rounds on each of the canon to take a plane down. Pretty cheap and highly accurate. First 1-2 shots was to warm up the gun.
Originally the Gepard was developed to counter attack helicopters, particularly when using so-called "pop up" attacks. The helicopter would loiter low and just rise above tree level briefly to fire its missles. It was determined that AA missles would be too slow to respond. It is complete irony that the Gepard never served in its intented role, and now excels in something completely new noboy imagined when it was developed.
I always was intrigued as to why ZSU’s and Gepards were made and kept even in the latter years of the Cold War. That type of counter to helicopter tactics is actually sound logic. Guess my curiosity is answered.
Poland is running a great option in the moment of 23mm ZSU-2 double barrel cannons (former trailer mount system now medium trucks) they added a double perun launcher and a optical system for engagement to it. Running new radars and 24 of those in brigade level anti-air Battalion.
European vet here. Back in the day i've seen many excercises with the Gepard, Cheeta"s we called them. Practicing targets looks almost identical to the Shaded drones. Gepards are a very, very underestimated weapon. They eat everything skyborn up to a helicopter for breakfast, lunch & diner. And then some. They need to be brought back into production.
They wont come back, because Rheinmetall has already developed a modern successor, the Oerlikon Skyranger. Its basically a turret with a 30 or 35mm Oerlikon gun and all the necessary sensors and radars. It fits to Lynx, Boxxer, Leo1+2 and trucks. The stationary variant is called Mantis.
@@kingfrett did u know the skyranger 35 is also married with a Leopard 1 hull. Kind of Gepard but the Question is where are the Radad part. maybe on a tripod ontop of a tank and can stand on position. or a radar trailer is attacht to him. also u can have some Stinger in a packed Manpad. so there are way. and watch out cockerill 3030 turret and 3105 as well.
@@kingfrett u can find this even in TH-cam on FP Defense News 1 month old video. and it is in english. with this stockpile of leopard u can really cheap build air defense unit. to ramp up our anti air support in short term
Your pronunciation of the Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer Gepard was astoundingly accurate, especially for an American (who typically just don't care at all to get foreign words right).
@@Gillymonster18 Well, all other cultures in the world have much higher motivation to get pronunciation right. It's only Americans who often won't try hard, if at all and just invent something like a nickname or abbreviation to use instead. Therefore it can't be only that Americans just suck at pronunciation of foreign words, but that they feel perfectly comfortable with it and see little reason to put the effort in to suck less.
@@MedEwok As a native German, I didn't expect a native pronunciation, but it was far more understandable than most Americans trying to pronounce German words.
Well, in fact the system was developing over the years. The Mantis system was used for marine purposes and still covers a part of the northern german coast. Furthermore, it lead to new modular systems like Skynex and Skyranger. The real progress with those is, the firing rate of at least 1200rpm and a linked command unit. It could use several canons, as they would be one and those canons can be used on several hulls like the Boxer or other existing ones, the old Leopard 1 ones, for example. Lately, it came down to simple trucks, which makes those units highly mobile. However, the trend is to equip armoured vehicles and tanks with a smaller, but also effective canon, named "Natter" - as planned for the KF-51 (Panther) from Rheinmetall.
9:29 this cannon fires 1200 rounds per minute. The manufacturer also states it needs an average of _3 rounds_ to take down a drone thanks to AHEAD programmable timed fuzed airburst ammunition. That's a very short brrt.
Laser systems have a problem: You can add a mirror finish to anything without adding significant weight. It is basically impossible to harden cheap plastic drones against bullets and shrapnel. But it is pretty feasible to make them need a ten times stronger laser to kill.
Do a video on the M42 please, very interesting history with it. They call it the Duster because in Vietnam they used it as a fire support platform and the ammo "dusts" their targets (VC)
The FlakPanzer wins the award for one of the coolest equipment names. What you really need though is a FlakPanzerAchtungStukaBlitzkriegSturmTiger, the other side would surrender on hearing it.
The Gepard has TWO radars. The large dish on the back is the search radar, which monitors larger airspace around it. Once a target has been identified, it'll be locked and the tracking radar at the front locks on to the target. That's the radar that's capable of following smaller to very small objects, but normally just by locking "visually", which means you don't lock via the search radar on a monitor using a joystick (like you do for normal planes and training targets), but by using the same joystick to lock the target by looking through the optics. And yes, that space inside is very cozy and you can perfectly sleep resting your head against optics mount :)
There is a whole line of development. WWII M45 quad .50 mount (towed). Thousands made. M16 gun motor carriage, said M45 mounted on a half-track. Somewhere less than 2000. Vietnam era M35. Actually, a .22 rimfire machine gun would do for most drones. That seems to be lacking in the fighter versions of small drones. Upgrade would be a 12 gauge auto firing buck shot ( or smaller pellets ). The drones at 1000 meters up need a heavier caliber- quad bofors 40 mm or mid 1950/s 75mm skysweep. The idea is close-in small, cheap systems, with longer range systems to disturb drones carefully lining up a shot or drop. The small systems also serve for defeating the kamikazi drones on their plunge. Using sintered iron bullets (aka shooting gallery aka CB aka BB) helps with the overspray problem: blue on blue bad.
You have my full support on the Gatling laser tank. I would also like to propose a tesla tank variant. It shoots a conductive wire that you dump a F ton of watts into in the hopes it arcs to a drone in the air and fry it. I have no idea if it physics or if it physicsn't... BUT BY GOD IT SHOULD!
So... You basically want to taser drones? Probably wouldn't really work since the drone isn't connected to any ground and would be extremely inefficient and ineffective even if it did.... But it is a really cool idea
HAHAHAH, subscribed ;) first i thought about it after, your said "clearly a missed ww3 opportunity to the gepard" but then the neil the gras voice in the saying well, planes are fast ;) you got me mate, not laughed so hard whole day ;)
Just to be clear, I clicked the link in hopes of seeing the flying toasters and the amazing audio effects. Seriously though, your content is top notch; no BS, informative, and I do like your presentation style.
Another reason to bring back the classic sod weapons that Gepards are a part of is in LSCO, even if it’s a hybrid threat, like it or not, those guns are really useful in MOUT. Historically those high angle and fast firing guns are the reason why BD6 wasn’t really fully developed until GWOT.
Current development aims at integrating many different systems under one plattform. Gepard might be the last "Solo-Warrior" with future systems like Sky-Nex, Sky-Ranger, THAAD, Arrow-3, IRIS-T up to AWACS and satellites being networked (which someone at Rheinmetall jokingly called SkyNet)
1:44 btw its called "Duster" bc in the vietnam war they did not use it as an SPAA but they figured "hey... we could just light up a tree line with it" and thats what happened to the guys in the tree line.... the more you know ^^
Newer flak guns don't need a fire rate that high, at least not to take out helicopters and drones. The reason is smart rounds (loaded with tungsten pellets and with multiple fuzing options that can be programmed a millisecond before the projectile is fired). They're able to rapidly saturate the target area with fragmentation, so instead of 1000 projectiles per second you're dealing with 50 000 tungsten pellets per second that's saturating the target area. While the 30x113mm smart rounds are slightly anemic (unlike germany's 35mm AHEAD or Bofors 40mm 3P they won't be shooting down any cruise missiles) it's good enough for drones while not being magnitudes more expensive. Although the US really likes the idea of the 30mm, combining the best features of the Mk19 automatic grenade launcher and the .50 cal and with the ability to fend off drones on top of that.
these "newer FlaK guns" are those from the 1960s (like the FlaKPz Gepard), which is the reason for the 2-ring muzzle device: It's not only a velocity sensor, but a few cm later two coils to program the "smart rounds", which are actually called air-burst munitions, again, 1960s state of the art.
@@KarlKarpfen No. Actual electronically programmable smart rounds is a thing of the late 90s and early 2000s. The AA version of the CV90 for example. A version built for the 2020s would probably be: a. A heavy wheeled or a tracked chassis based on IFVs like boxer/Patria AMV/CV90. Using a tank-chassis is overkill (expensive both in performance and in logistics) since you don't need to handle the recoil of such a high-rate of fire gun. b. 35-50mm anti-aircraft gun with programmable rounds and a modest rate of fire. c. AESA radar+IRST system to lower threat signature (with IRST giving you full passive tracking). d. A small supply of Surface-to-Air missiles to take down helicopters, aircraft and cruise missiles.
@@fiendishrabbit8259 You are partially correct: AHEAD ammunition was a product which started commercial production in 1993, which is the time at which the Gepard 1A2 was converted from the Gepard 1A1. The muzzle device to program the AHEAD ammuntion was a key part of the upgrade to the 1A2. Still, the development was done in the 1980s. Such ammunition is much, but not new.
@@dubuyajay9964 Thing is. Smart rounds DON'T use a lot of ammo by comparison since they require only 1-3 shots to knock out a drone. Or saturate an infantry squad with tungsten pellets. That's their massive advantage compared to ammunition that needs direct hits or which aren't detonated in an optimized pattern.
Flak panzer Gepard ; when skies are not friendly. TY- yes I also always luv Flak panzer's , and wish they would make flak panzer fuzzy slippers, flak panzer sheets/pillow cases, flak panzer smart phone case, flak panzer desk-top organizer , and something that says "flak panzer" every 25 mins. or so.
You can’t call the Geopard *Gepard just Flakpanzer. That just mean aa tank. So any tank going back to ww2 that they stapled an aa gun to is a flakpaner
It depends: Much of the video is just about the return of the general use of AA-guns on mobile platforms. There, a "return of the 'air defence cannon armoured vehicle'" is perfectly accurate.
Ok, maybe - as a German - I am a bit nitpicky here, or I missunderstand your approach, but "Flakpanzer" is THE common everyday denomination for the Gepard system. Search for "Flakpanzer Gepard" and you will find a lot of results in German. My Childhood took place in the 70s and since then until today it always has been the Flakpanzer.
The Anvil Drone by Anduril seems to be pretty fleshed out. It's just big, heavy, and durable, so when it flies directly at an enemy drone, it knocks it out of the sky.
Justin ... Justiiiiin... i am the ghost of metric system past.... and i am here to tell you.... at least for military purposes remember 10 millimeter is around the width of your finger... I will return to teach you way more about the metric system (really specific for me to return but okay i am a big fan fan of yours)
The cold not-dead hand of Jimmy Carter reaches out to shake his fist in your general direction! As if to say: ""C'mon, y'all! Let's count by tens like civilized folk!"
2:16 Actually first the belts were made from 2/3 HeFI and 1/3 SapheI-T rounds, against aircraft anf ground targets. With the external belts beeing APDS. Then with the newer models, the main armarment is loaded up with fure FAPDS, which is a "i shredd everything in that general direction, be it armor or plane".
C-RAM(aka land version of CIWS) surprisingly fits onto the same platfrom as MLRS, that uses slightly elongated Bradley chassis as base. I would have suggested also replacing the autocannon with Rolling Airframe Missile launcher to maximise cool factor as it uses the same mount as CIWS/C-RAM. Linebacker doesn't have to return. Arm Bradley with ADATS in place of TOW-2 and ever Bradley becomes Linebacker. Or, considering that army tried to replace TOW-2 with Hellfire 2 and at the same time develop SAM based on Hellfire 2, roll them into new smaller Hellfire 2 based ADATS 2. And then strap it to Bradley.
@hotdog9262 Since I'm lazy, let me just copypaste my comment from other chain: "To deal with FPV drones the only thing needed is to slave RWS to APS sensors. I'm yet to see a quadcopter that can keep flying after getting hit with .308 If we talk about bigger drones though, then ideal solution is somewhere between russian Pantsir-M, german AHEAD ammo and american CIWS/CRAM software. The issue is that for too long the close range air defense ignored munitions ie ATGMs, AGMs, guided bombs and many others. And instead focused only on their carriers. But stand off distances increased and munition costs decreased and now the truth is that you don't need to compare the price of ammo of your SPAA to enemy munitions carriers ie planes and helis, but the price of YOUR assets that you are afraid to lose. Now the job of close range SPAAG is to intercept ALL "fires", not just planes." Basically in comment you answer to I was talking specifically about his mentions of rule of cool about C-RAM and Linebacker, not about optimal solutions to FPV drone and short range air defense. Optimal solution in my opinion is in the reposted comment above, which is about turning both RWS/APS combo installed (in the future) on most vehicles and SPAA itself into "airspace denial" platforms. Funnily enough, that doctrine change would make doctrinal niche of MANPADs uncertain as they are too expensive to combat FPV threat and can't intercept ordnance ie AGMs, ATGMs, bombs and shells. So once again the likely evolution would be creation of "universal" ATGM/MANPAD, which Javelin and Starstreak are both technically capable of doing, but to a limited capacity.
@@TheArklyte "then ideal solution is somewhere between russian Pantsir-M, german AHEAD ammo and american CIWS/CRAM software" id say the bofors or ahead platform is already ideal..atleast in current times. why would old CIWS/CRAM software or anything really, be better then new german tech?
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD We have the spare parts. We have the technology! We can rebuild him stronger...faster...able to hit test-range targets without adding radar-reflectors to them this time!
I thank you because with this video you reminded me that I still have to build the kit of this vehicle, in 1/35 scale by Tamiya, bought I don't even remember how many years ago... I'm going to get it
You could take a look at the "Mantis System" by Rheinmetall. It is essentially the "successor system" of the Gepard, already in use by the German Army.
That’s why I subbed to this channel. Yes the historians and sociologists tell you wars are fought for territory, wealth, political or ideological advantage or just vengeance. Justin understands the single reason that individual soldiers fight wars is to look cool. The pinnacle I suppose is the fighter pilot who rides around in a supersonic hot rod that the enemy can’t see (we hope) with all sorts of kick ass missiles and bombs etc. However , even the lowly 11 bravo sports body armour, a cool helmet with comms like Britney Spears and soon a new rifle with supernatural optics that can calculate the true size of your opponent’s manhood (or cup size). Just look at the Marine Corps’ dress blues. Not even Marines would be stupid enough to join the Marine Corps except damn those dress blues look cool. Yes indeed Justin, if you don’t look cool, why even fight.
I wish you were joking, but I also remember a book by Colonel Ralph Peters. He mentions Balkan & Caucasian militia gunmen he met, and the "Rambo Effect" in how they dressed...
X Band = NATO I Band (Navigation RADAR). S Band = NATO E/F Band (Air/Surface RADAR). The first is a cleaner more precise shorter range, the second is longer range with a slower pulse rate/less accurate. It all comes down to power output, rate of return and size of the array (the physical dish).
I did a short interview with ForgottenWeapons in February, where he speculated the same, especially about the Gepard. Will relaunch on a separate channel in time, as content got too diverse. Also as a German, I feel it as cultural technical appropriation, that in the Thumbnail you say "we" and then show our beloved field cat. Jokes aside, as always, great content.
7:35 its the same with MBTs. Germany waited with sending MBTs cause they aren't soley a defensive Weapon while the Gepard with sabot rounds has also the ability to engage t-tanks. Politics
Quando o exército brasileiro comprou várias dessas unidades há mais de 10 anos, muitos disseram "compra de equipamento obsoleto". Mas que reviravolta meus amigos.
that front mounted thing on the barrels’ end also programs the shells to explode in the distance calculated from radar data. You don’t have to hit the target, only get close.
It would be nice if Gepard had programmable ammunition, but unfortunately it does not. The sensors at the ends of the barrels measure the muzzle velocity and thus correct the lead point. Rheinmetall's successor, the Skyranger, has programmable ammunition
@@lapin46 But what the Gepard could do back then and was ahead of its time was that instead of using its own search radar, it could be fed with external radar data via datalink. This meant it could remain hidden until it had switched on the target radar.
I talked about the drone war with a friend of mine that is a soldier in the german military. He leads a small unit that installs field communication systems so he knows a lot about the drones, sinals and the range of drones. He said that the Gepard has no problem to detect the drones and shoot them down in large quantities. The only problem is to feed it with enough ammo and to produce these in large enough numbers in the factories at home.
There is an elegance and simplicity to the WW2 way, which is helpful when you need to mass produce things which must fire in a very narrow window, having been accelerated very sharply.
the slinger bolt-on turret is current close-in master mostly because of its software. it is going on m113s and local MRAPs in Ukraine. but i am curious about how software is protected in case it is captured . . .
Meanwhile the StyroPyro channel has a 50k mega watt jule thing-a-ma-bob laser turret mounted to his roof, that zaps holes through a steel truck door and instantly sets the interior on fire, in less than a second, and a mile away. So why exactly do they need expensive tanks that rattles off 2,500 20mm cannon shells per minute, which is still more expensive than a $150 quadcopter from China?
1: that truck does not draw power for all the other systems the military needs. 2: a mile is actually a pretty short range for a weapon system 3: StyroPyro is a professional who can neglect several safety systems. The military cannot 4: mass producing that system would still be really expensive
@@dominiklehn2866 Are you taking the comment seriously? Actually now that I think about it, these gun powder based weapons systems are outdated and require far too majy resources to operate. Fuel truck to keep it running, trasport truck to bring in ammunition that it consumes at an alarming rate, a whole crew to man and maintain it... Lasers and energy weapons are the future. Easy to aim, does not run out of ammo, quiet, does not need a large crew to operate meaning load and repair jam ups ect. But whatever, AA guns are cheap to buy and been around since last millennium I suppose.
@Ed-ty1kr yes, purely electricity based weapons systems require far less of a logistics system behind them. However, you need to get that electricity from somewhere first. That's the biggest problem with these so far. Fuel and gunpowder just has a far higher energy density and is thus easier to transport than anything else we currently have. And it's more reliable at the current technology level
@@dominiklehn2866 And to think I used to laugh at the thought of a focuse beam flashlight used as a weapon other than to blind, that to me was a Starwars joke. Even in relatively recent years I saw it as something that attacked through extended heat exposure, and not necesserally as an actual penetrating or cutting device at range. But... was I proven wrong. When a young fella with a youtube channel can build a laser from an industrial rust and paint stripping tool, you know it is more than possible for DARPA to build something. These modern lasers have a shocking range, that challanges any kinetic weapon, because kinetic loses energy needed to do damage over distance especially fired vertically, and lose accuracy at range. Lasers also have no recoil, no need to adjust for windsheer, and is easily adjusted to track fast moving targets like small drones. Ultimately lasers will soon surpass all other means to knock down flying objects even in fog, clouds, or smoke the energy beam can burn through if used as a constant beam. Mirrors get destroyed just the same due to the energy beams sudden rise in surface temp of any reflective surface. As far as power consumption obviously there will be a need for some sort of generator, but that can be overcome easily since we already have a vast variety of generators available that weigh less than heavy duty mounting hardware, 20 or 30 mm cannon barrels and shells, a crew to load and make sure it keeps firing.
@@Ed-ty1kr yes, Lasers can be very powerful and will likely become a very real weapon system. They draw a lot of power, but power requirements are always increasing with technology and generation must keep up. Of course, they do still have some drawbacks. They're difficult to maintain in the field so will likely remain on things with a large maintenance crew like ships or that return directly to a backline base, like large planes. They can't use a ballistic trajectory so won't ever replace indirect fire artillery. Really, these rapid fire systems like AA or missile defense where every millisecond of travel time counts will likely be their main application. In range they're all outcompeted by self-propelled projectiles such as missiles anyway. On the frontline itself ease of maintenance is vitally important so they probably won't be too widespread there
gepard was literally showcased on small drones so it makes sense, not to mention 35mm is a thick round with a lot of velocity so even if it wizzes by itll fuck with the stability of a drone
Really the best way to take out or decrease the use of drones has been some from or another of EWS. We know of two examples of ongoing urban battles that both sides have use EWS to prevent/decrease the use of drones from either doing their attacks or even outright stopping them from being use in a wild area. If use and place in the right way large areas can see no drones flying over head at all and you could deployed forces in areas differently then what they have to do now. But in regards to this Flakpanzer it's more likely a begging for anything spot gap to slow down the ongoing defeat for the AFU in a too little too late outcome. Honestly I think this would be great to deal with light armor and infantry forces overall more so than being use for air defense if again use and deployed correctly.
Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer means Anti-air-gun (cannon)-tank. Also before any americans (or our former defence minister) complain that this is NOT infact a tank, do be reminded that this is a german vehicle and the german army names almost anything a (whatever the vehicle is supposed to do)-tank as long as it has some kind of armour.
Honestly, I don't think we need a dedicated vehicle for it, especially when that one vehicle can't cover every vehicle in an armoured formation at the same time if massed-drone attacks are being used. Future vehicles need their own miniature form of Close-In Weapon System like naval vessels have. Whether they use airbursting ammunition and GPMG's or an Electronic Warfare unit to cut the connection is debatable, but it'd be a better solution considering the number of drones that can be used at once.
Pay close attention to where the lasers are tested, dry areas or deserts. The USSR already experimented with this in the 80's. And as a Russian general said, no one can break the laws of physics, they don't work in rain or fog.
Twin 40mm and its cousin the quad .50 cal. were both commonly used in fire base perimeter defense in Vietnam. The 1st ID air defense batteries at Ft. Riley were equipped with 20mm gatling gun style Vulcans in the early '70's.
The thing though is that tiny drones don't need 20mm, 30mm or even bigger rounds to take down. 14mm or 50cal or even 7.62 is enough if the system is good enough to keep it on target, way cheaper than the bigger ammo and you can carry a LOT more of it. And you could mount a turret with that sized gun on a MUCH smallwr vehicle, like a toyota Hilux for example 😅
Good video, one thing to add...the ammunition manufactured in Germany Well the parts were made in Switzerland, and through some funny export loopholes, the rounds were assembled in Germany and good to go
3:58 The VAADS was to be paired with the Chaparral in the SHORAD space as the Chaparral was able to reach out further than the VAADS. The US used the Avenger air defense system for many years and developed the Linebacker for a similar reason.
A slightly larger 40mm round could be equipped with a radar proximity fuse. This would make the projectile roughly six times more effective because even a near miss would take down a drone with its shrapnel. With a really good targeting system the guns could approach one kill for every shot fired, although they'll probably be programmed to fire three rounds per target for insurance.
Drone sized targets would be difficult to dected for proximity fuzes. That's why programmed timed fuzes are taking over now (AHEAD). Skyranger 30 uses that ammunition and needs a maximum burst of 3 rounds to hit a Drone. At 1000 rounds per minute that's a burst of just 0.2 seconds.
Another reason these systems were dropped, to include the Sgt York, was that Air to ground missiles outranged the guns on the flak panzers. Which made them obsolete.
As a wee little kid who loved everything with tracks and guns on it, this was always going to be my favorite for having 2 and then I realized it was named after my favorite animal and makes a WONDERFUL sound😂
Some kind of huge EMP pulse generator that could be aimed, would take out any drone swarm. I wonder if anybody is working on that. I understand the potential drawbacks to possible civilian and friendly-fire type issues, but if you HAVE to stop drone swarms.... risks have to be taken.
the interesting thing about drones is that the only solution to them (esp en masse) seem to be having the capacity to have autonomous anti-air defense like a Gepard system, which only relatively developed countries have the means to produce effectively and with modern protections. its a parallel to guns being cheap and quick to produce but now with double, or triple etc. the resources needed to counter it. very weird power dynamics we're moving into here and i definitely am glad my VA profile basically screams 'do not call from reserves'
The fundamental problem is that high tech modern vehicles are so expensive and time consuming tio produce that I struggle to visualize what a general eurasian war would look like. The USSR produced 500k artillery pieces and 110k tanks and SPGs during WW2 , while fighting a war on their own soil , with their industrial heartland being the battlefield. Such numbers are just impossible today , even for America and China.
Waiting for every remote weapon station to be upgraded with anti-drone features. Like the FPV and drop drones are hardly inconspicuous and software can do the actual targetting.
The development of military equipment didn’t hit the wall in Vietnam that it did with the GWOT because the Cold War was still going on. This meant stuff like the M42 Duster were already in service and simply went over to Vietnam and used as makeshift support vehicles
Here in my hometown a Dutch parallel development of the Gepard, the Cheetah, used to be manufactured. The Cheetah performed significantly better than the Gepard but was notoriously difficult and hideously costly to operate. Attempts to restart a production line were aborted quickly - the necessary heavy industry is no longer there.
in ukraine, the gepard I was found to be very effective against drones. they usually need just 3 rounds per barrel (eg 6) to take down a drone. and then it engages the next drone. or in other words, those 300-something rounds they load in bring down a significant amount of drones. and yes, they are that precise.
AFAIK the Gepard doesn't use incediary rounds as standard armament anymore but FAPDS - a fragmenting round that detonates in a shotgun-blast like airburst, similar to what the Puma fires. Guess it's a Rheinmetall thing. Not sure if that's the ammunition Ukraine is getting right now though.
Good thing is that all this probably made them shelf the nuclear-powered-drone-that-can-stay-airborne-indefinitely idea again. It's a die-hard that one, and I know for a fact they had it out looking at it back when the Predator was still new and shiny, cruising the skies of Afghanistan and Iraq. They figured since it was an unmanned vehicle, it wouldn't need all the heavy shielding which was what originally made the project unfeasible back in the '60s.
Ask the retroactive questions you would have asked me before the video here 👇
Why no mention of the T259¿ It's like the A-10 big land based brother
How good is the Flakpanzer's radar? I know it's kinda old
what about EMPs? might that be an option?
Since I have no idea if YT even allows me to comment or if my comments vanish forever, I'll just repost this here as an "answer":
C-RAM(aka land version of CIWS) surprisingly fits onto the same platfrom as MLRS, that uses slightly elongated Bradley chassis as base. I would have suggested also replacing the autocannon with Rolling Airframe Missile launcher to maximise cool factor as it uses the same mount as CIWS/C-RAM.
Linebacker doesn't have to return. Arm Bradley with ADATS in place of TOW-2 and ever Bradley becomes Linebacker. Or, considering that army tried to replace TOW-2 with Hellfire 2 and at the same time develop SAM based on Hellfire 2, roll them into new smaller Hellfire 2 based ADATS 2. And then strap it to Bradley.
To deal with FPV drones the only thing needed is to slave RWS to APS sensors. I'm yet to see a quadcopter that can keep flying after getting hit with .308
If we talk about bigger drones though, then ideal solution is somewhere between russian Pantsir-M, german AHEAD ammo and american CIWS/CRAM software.
The issue is that for too long the close range air defense ignored munitions ie ATGMs, AGMs, guided bombs and many others. And instead focused only on their carriers. But stand off distances increased and munition costs decreased and now the truth is that you don't need to compare the price of ammo of your SPAA to enemy munitions carriers ie planes and helis, but the price of YOUR assets that you are afraid to lose. Now the job of close range SPAAG is to intercept ALL "fires", not just planes.
^wall of text brought to you by paranoia birthed out of YT shadowbanning and/or glitched to no end platform.
Why aren't shot-shells an option against drones? Wouldn't saturating the sky with buck or birdshot work better than firing huge projectiles that are way overkill for tiny drones?
I deal with drones by angrily shaking my fist at the sky. Usually works.
You must also include the ancient incantation "get off my lawn!"
bot
@@randallrobertson7190 bot
I was reading this at beginning of video with the pulling down of the saddam statue, he had one hand in the air. I imagine a statue similar to that with motorized fist shaking and head spinning like radar satellite dish. Mounted on tank chassis,obviously. Should work flawlessly
@@randallrobertson7190don't forget to add you darn kids for good measure.
"Why does the anti-drone laser have a bunch spinning laser tubes?
"Boys at the R&D lost a bet with marketing and had to make it look like a gatling gun"
"Looks wicked, ship it!"
Literally Fallout Logic 😂
The Gepard is a bit of a sleeper, not well known by the general public. The 30 mm caliber is in the compromise zone between the rate of fire and shrapnel effect, but the service record seems to vindicate the choice. Being a classic weapons system, it still is a beast in its niche.
35 mm - the Gepard has two 35 Oerlikon cannons
@@d.o.g573 Thanks for setting the record straight. The 5 mm may seem on the surface inconsequential, but that's in linear approximation more than +50% in projectile weight.
@@mattilindstrom I can tell you that the Effect those rounds have even against Tanks is in some sense kinda Insane... Like the rounds are able to Pen the Tops of tanks (from shooting at it from the front) and the rounds kinda digs into the Armor and then Explodes so its even a kinda good Cal. for shooting IFVs and such (even like smaller boats)
@@mattilindstromGepard has smart air burst round that specifically designed for 35mm
Ukrainian soldiers who operate it love it because it can destroy drones efficiently, Germany also cooked up a new system that’s currently ground based but I can see them mounting it.
if your weapon systems look lame nobody is gonna wanna crew it and that's gonna hurt recruitment
Preach🗣️🙌🏼
The recruiters just have to discuss GI Bill education benefits.
Don’t judge a book by its cover.
The 6th unoffical principle of combat patrolling is looking cool, so tactically speaking it checks out.
I heard alot of dudes entered thinking stuff from various futuristic soldier program would be widely adopted around the corner, allowing them to play Ghost Recon irl, however they went through service with basically upgraded stuff of what their father carried
You are one of very few youtubers who cover this kind of stuff that dosent seam like a complete psycho and i very much appreciate that.
Haven't watched alot of this guys stuff but personally I get what you mean so many guys cover this shit with almost zero knowledge and than openly glorify deaths as if that helps anyone
any other recommendations?
@@halcyon63 probably perun
@@pekka405perun is the goat😊
history legens gives accurate and neutral news reports about the eastern front@@halcyon63
Hi Justin, just a correction to what you said at 4:26 about the Tunguska having an X-band whilst the Gepard having the S-band radar. Both the Tunguska and the Gepard have two separate radar systems, one for target acquisition and one for target tracking. With radar in general, the higher the frequency the radio wave, the better tracking you can get in terms of position and velocity and such. The problem is that signals attenuate more rapidly as they get higher in frequency whilst also interacting more with weather and other clutter. So to get around this, you can have two radar system, one to find the vague general area that operates at a lower frequency (the spinny one) and one that focuses all the radio energy to where the acquisition radar thinks the target is, at a higher frequency.
For the Gepard, the acquisition radar operates in S-band as you mentioned (1.55 to 3.9 GHz) whilst the tracking radar is Ku band (10.9 to 20 GHz). The Tunguska on the other hand has its acquisition radar operate at E-band (2 to 3 GHz) and the tracking radar at J-band (10 to 20 GHz). (dont ask why the different band names overlap the same frequencies, NATO keeps changing its mind about things)a
The tunguska is outdated, this is why they moved to pantzir
@@wound957ruralapexthe Tunguska literally fulfills an entirely different role than the pantsir.
@@wound957ruralapex The Pantsir is also outdated and totally incapable of dealing with micro drones and even SCALP storm shadow but NATO nations spent zero money to replace their own SHORAD (Rapier, Roland, Crotal) so Russia has the 'better' but still effective weapon in the ridiculous Pantsir. The lack of SHORAD is why Ukrainian Leopards and Abrams were knocked of at long range by Russian attack helicopters with long range ATGM like Vikhr. Please note politicians in Europe and US who neglected this area are still around.
-Pantisir by combining guns and missiles makes itself bulk and easy to detect, twin guns are less accurate than single. The lack of air burst makes the Pantsir guns extremely outmoded.
Skyranger is the way to do it.
@williamzk9083 you are wrong pantzirs prooved on film that scalps, stormshadows, drones and any mlrs are perfectly interceptable. I do not understand why do you trash pantzirs so much, it has the capability to fire air burst, but they just do not have them, usually military tech is alright, because it was done by smart people, unless you just want to hate
@@parkerlong2658 not really, today there is no big moving formations that need to covered with them and tunguskas are very rare to see in Ukraine
What makes the Gepard so special is the incredible turret turning rate. At top speed it can rotate its entire turret in less than 3 seconds 360° including raising the guns to nearly vertical.
That's also the reason for the two 'cozy' seats. They are aligned as close to the center point of the rotation axis of the turret to subject the two positions to the least amount of g-forces and disorientation due to spinning.
If you can target-lock seagulls any drones capable of damaging vehicles are easy targets as they tend to be larger and less streamlined.
The Skynex or the Skyranger are the immobile and mobile successors to the Gepard. With their AHEAD ammo they are able to take down multiple drones in close proximity with a single salvo.
The AHEAD ammo explodes in a cloud of tungsten subpenetrators that destroys anything in the area of detonation. Each individual shot is programmed when leaving the barrel by electromagnetic induction to detonate shortly before intercepting the target(s).
That makes the next generation of these SPAAGs perfect anti-drone area denial defense systems. Their C5 equipment allows them to link with radar systems real-time anywhere in the vicinity making them far less likely to be targeted by radar-seeking missiles. Their targeting systems are so good that they can target individual mortar shells mid flight.
@RustyDust101 the turn rate is even more incredible when you know the turret weights 15t. When I was in the army I was in the maintenance team of the Gepard. At that time it had an analog computer. For 60s technology this tank was incredible. AFAIK it takes only 5-6 rounds on each of the canon to take a plane down. Pretty cheap and highly accurate. First 1-2 shots was to warm up the gun.
I need that Flakpanzer. Mosquitoes are as big as drones here 😁
Somebody makes a 22lr Gatling gun. There's videos on YT. I believe you'll find you need one.
Originally the Gepard was developed to counter attack helicopters, particularly when using so-called "pop up" attacks. The helicopter would loiter low and just rise above tree level briefly to fire its missles. It was determined that AA missles would be too slow to respond. It is complete irony that the Gepard never served in its intented role, and now excels in something completely new noboy imagined when it was developed.
I always was intrigued as to why ZSU’s and Gepards were made and kept even in the latter years of the Cold War. That type of counter to helicopter tactics is actually sound logic. Guess my curiosity is answered.
Zumwalt's ghost is haunting all the procurement officers whispering "you've neglected the low end of the mix. prepare for an unending sprint phase"
Poland is running a great option in the moment of 23mm ZSU-2 double barrel cannons (former trailer mount system now medium trucks) they added a double perun launcher and a optical system for engagement to it.
Running new radars and 24 of those in brigade level anti-air Battalion.
@@paxundpeace9970 Double Perun launcher? Will more Australian Powerpoint briefings really be that effective against drones?
European vet here. Back in the day i've seen many excercises with the Gepard, Cheeta"s we called them. Practicing targets looks almost identical to the Shaded drones. Gepards are a very, very underestimated weapon. They eat everything skyborn up to a helicopter for breakfast, lunch & diner. And then some. They need to be brought back into production.
They wont come back, because Rheinmetall has already developed a modern successor, the Oerlikon Skyranger. Its basically a turret with a 30 or 35mm Oerlikon gun and all the necessary sensors and radars. It fits to Lynx, Boxxer, Leo1+2 and trucks. The stationary variant is called Mantis.
Judging by Ukraine, the Geranium-2 drones turned out to be too tough for this predator.
@@kingfrett did u know the skyranger 35 is also married with a Leopard 1 hull. Kind of Gepard but the Question is where are the Radad part. maybe on a tripod ontop of a tank and can stand on position. or a radar trailer is attacht to him. also u can have some Stinger in a packed Manpad. so there are way. and watch out cockerill 3030 turret and 3105 as well.
@@MiniTitanic1 The Skyranger turret has its own radar. There are versions for Leo1+2, Lynx, CV90 and piranha
@@kingfrett u can find this even in TH-cam on FP Defense News 1 month old video. and it is in english. with this stockpile of leopard u can really cheap build air defense unit. to ramp up our anti air support in short term
6:58 this clip has somewhat subpar censoring
I was going to say the same thing, lol.
That's because the pixelated person specifically asked for it , the other 2 didn't.
@@69quato the guy in the foreground isn't blurred for the first few frames, and the blurring jumps to the background guy later
Australia's sending over the Slinger anti-drone system, which is basically a 30mm cannon with a radar you can slap on the back of a ute.
We are deeply thankful for all the aid you are providing!
Wow i m impressed by your pronunciation of Flugabwehkanonenpanzer Gepard.
👍
This comment is now Eigentum der Bundesrepublik?😅
Sweden has a really cool SPAAG version of CV90: Luftvärnskanonvagn 90
I love that the more advanced military technology gets, the more uses we find for older tech.
Your pronunciation of the Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer Gepard was astoundingly accurate, especially for an American (who typically just don't care at all to get foreign words right).
Hey, now…it’s not that we don’t care…we care. We just utterly SUCK at it.
@@Gillymonster18 Well, all other cultures in the world have much higher motivation to get pronunciation right. It's only Americans who often won't try hard, if at all and just invent something like a nickname or abbreviation to use instead. Therefore it can't be only that Americans just suck at pronunciation of foreign words, but that they feel perfectly comfortable with it and see little reason to put the effort in to suck less.
As a native German, I found it terrible.
@@MedEwok As a native German, I didn't expect a native pronunciation, but it was far more understandable than most Americans trying to pronounce German words.
I just wouldn‘t say „Flugabwehkanonen“ although it‘s the right full name. „Flak“ is enough- that‘s what every german says.
Well, in fact the system was developing over the years. The Mantis system was used for marine purposes and still covers a part of the northern german coast. Furthermore, it lead to new modular systems like Skynex and Skyranger. The real progress with those is, the firing rate of at least 1200rpm and a linked command unit. It could use several canons, as they would be one and those canons can be used on several hulls like the Boxer or other existing ones, the old Leopard 1 ones, for example. Lately, it came down to simple trucks, which makes those units highly mobile. However, the trend is to equip armoured vehicles and tanks with a smaller, but also effective canon, named "Natter" - as planned for the KF-51 (Panther) from Rheinmetall.
9:29 this cannon fires 1200 rounds per minute.
The manufacturer also states it needs an average of _3 rounds_ to take down a drone thanks to AHEAD programmable timed fuzed airburst ammunition. That's a very short brrt.
Laser systems have a problem: You can add a mirror finish to anything without adding significant weight.
It is basically impossible to harden cheap plastic drones against bullets and shrapnel. But it is pretty feasible to make them need a ten times stronger laser to kill.
In civilian life I usually find wave at a drone while standing in the middle of the street with my pants down makes them go away quickly.
If those are female drone operators I would be worried.
Drones are cool, but you know whats cooler? You dad... I mean Justin
Do a video on the M42 please, very interesting history with it. They call it the Duster because in Vietnam they used it as a fire support platform and the ammo "dusts" their targets (VC)
That and the 40 mikemikes ammo kicks up alot of dust if the barrels are near the ground.
1:44 M42 Duster disrespect will not be tolerated!
😂😂 yes sir
The FlakPanzer wins the award for one of the coolest equipment names. What you really need though is a FlakPanzerAchtungStukaBlitzkriegSturmTiger, the other side would surrender on hearing it.
Laughs in German: Ja ja 😂
Also Stuka comes from SturtzKampfflugzeug, literally dropfightairplane
Flugabwehrraketensystem Roland auf Radkraftfahrzeug not enough?
If it were not complicated sounding, it would not be German. 😅
Drones, lasers, and AI . . . what could possibly go wrong? I swear we had a whole movie serries about this . . .
Its been ages since I saw the CIV 4 tech tree. 1:13
The Gepard is an absolute beast, we got you👍🏼
4:16 isn´t the "current" Russian SPAA platform the Pantsir? Yes Russia still uses the Tunguska but the Pantsir is more modern if im not mistaken.
The Gepard has TWO radars. The large dish on the back is the search radar, which monitors larger airspace around it. Once a target has been identified, it'll be locked and the tracking radar at the front locks on to the target. That's the radar that's capable of following smaller to very small objects, but normally just by locking "visually", which means you don't lock via the search radar on a monitor using a joystick (like you do for normal planes and training targets), but by using the same joystick to lock the target by looking through the optics.
And yes, that space inside is very cozy and you can perfectly sleep resting your head against optics mount :)
Never heard of the Duster?! *Sniff* commoner.
There is a whole line of development. WWII M45 quad .50 mount (towed). Thousands made. M16 gun motor carriage, said M45 mounted on a half-track. Somewhere less than 2000. Vietnam era M35. Actually, a .22 rimfire machine gun would do for most drones. That seems to be lacking in the fighter versions of small drones. Upgrade would be a 12 gauge auto firing buck shot ( or smaller pellets ). The drones at 1000 meters up need a heavier caliber- quad bofors 40 mm or mid 1950/s 75mm skysweep. The idea is close-in small, cheap systems, with longer range systems to disturb drones carefully lining up a shot or drop. The small systems also serve for defeating the kamikazi drones on their plunge.
Using sintered iron bullets (aka shooting gallery aka CB aka BB) helps with the overspray problem: blue on blue bad.
Boy do i love your content, i just found it and ive binged your channel, its great content!
You have my full support on the Gatling laser tank.
I would also like to propose a tesla tank variant. It shoots a conductive wire that you dump a F ton of watts into in the hopes it arcs to a drone in the air and fry it.
I have no idea if it physics or if it physicsn't... BUT BY GOD IT SHOULD!
So... You basically want to taser drones? Probably wouldn't really work since the drone isn't connected to any ground and would be extremely inefficient and ineffective even if it did.... But it is a really cool idea
Always entertaining and informative. Well done again.
HAHAHAH, subscribed ;) first i thought about it after, your said "clearly a missed ww3 opportunity to the gepard" but then the neil the gras voice in the saying well, planes are fast ;) you got me mate, not laughed so hard whole day ;)
Just to be clear, I clicked the link in hopes of seeing the flying toasters and the amazing audio effects.
Seriously though, your content is top notch; no BS, informative, and I do like your presentation style.
what makes the skynex platform so much more effective is the airburst ammunition. In my opinion the best thing we have against drones at this point.
Another reason to bring back the classic sod weapons that Gepards are a part of is in LSCO, even if it’s a hybrid threat, like it or not, those guns are really useful in MOUT. Historically those high angle and fast firing guns are the reason why BD6 wasn’t really fully developed until GWOT.
Current development aims at integrating many different systems under one plattform. Gepard might be the last "Solo-Warrior" with future systems like Sky-Nex, Sky-Ranger, THAAD, Arrow-3, IRIS-T up to AWACS and satellites being networked (which someone at Rheinmetall jokingly called SkyNet)
1:44 btw its called "Duster" bc in the vietnam war they did not use it as an SPAA but they figured "hey... we could just light up a tree line with it" and thats what happened to the guys in the tree line.... the more you know ^^
Newer flak guns don't need a fire rate that high, at least not to take out helicopters and drones. The reason is smart rounds (loaded with tungsten pellets and with multiple fuzing options that can be programmed a millisecond before the projectile is fired). They're able to rapidly saturate the target area with fragmentation, so instead of 1000 projectiles per second you're dealing with 50 000 tungsten pellets per second that's saturating the target area. While the 30x113mm smart rounds are slightly anemic (unlike germany's 35mm AHEAD or Bofors 40mm 3P they won't be shooting down any cruise missiles) it's good enough for drones while not being magnitudes more expensive.
Although the US really likes the idea of the 30mm, combining the best features of the Mk19 automatic grenade launcher and the .50 cal and with the ability to fend off drones on top of that.
these "newer FlaK guns" are those from the 1960s (like the FlaKPz Gepard), which is the reason for the 2-ring muzzle device: It's not only a velocity sensor, but a few cm later two coils to program the "smart rounds", which are actually called air-burst munitions, again, 1960s state of the art.
@@KarlKarpfen No. Actual electronically programmable smart rounds is a thing of the late 90s and early 2000s. The AA version of the CV90 for example.
A version built for the 2020s would probably be:
a. A heavy wheeled or a tracked chassis based on IFVs like boxer/Patria AMV/CV90. Using a tank-chassis is overkill (expensive both in performance and in logistics) since you don't need to handle the recoil of such a high-rate of fire gun.
b. 35-50mm anti-aircraft gun with programmable rounds and a modest rate of fire.
c. AESA radar+IRST system to lower threat signature (with IRST giving you full passive tracking).
d. A small supply of Surface-to-Air missiles to take down helicopters, aircraft and cruise missiles.
@@fiendishrabbit8259 You are partially correct: AHEAD ammunition was a product which started commercial production in 1993, which is the time at which the Gepard 1A2 was converted from the Gepard 1A1. The muzzle device to program the AHEAD ammuntion was a key part of the upgrade to the 1A2.
Still, the development was done in the 1980s. Such ammunition is much, but not new.
You going to pay for a bazillion smart rounds? Have you seen how much these weapons chew through ammo?
@@dubuyajay9964 Thing is. Smart rounds DON'T use a lot of ammo by comparison since they require only 1-3 shots to knock out a drone. Or saturate an infantry squad with tungsten pellets. That's their massive advantage compared to ammunition that needs direct hits or which aren't detonated in an optimized pattern.
Flak panzer Gepard ; when skies are not friendly. TY- yes I also always luv Flak panzer's , and wish they would make flak panzer fuzzy slippers, flak panzer sheets/pillow cases, flak panzer smart phone case, flak panzer desk-top organizer , and something that says "flak panzer" every 25 mins. or so.
You can’t call the Geopard *Gepard just Flakpanzer. That just mean aa tank. So any tank going back to ww2 that they stapled an aa gun to is a flakpaner
It depends: Much of the video is just about the return of the general use of AA-guns on mobile platforms. There, a "return of the 'air defence cannon armoured vehicle'" is perfectly accurate.
True. Übrigens, were you thinking of Leopard and Gepard gleichzeitig? haha
@@CT-hr9nk sorry I'm dyslexic, so unfortunately I can't spell right, but you are right that it is the Gepard, not the Geopard
The return of the AA tank is an accurate title.
Ok, maybe - as a German - I am a bit nitpicky here, or I missunderstand your approach, but "Flakpanzer" is THE common everyday denomination for the Gepard system. Search for "Flakpanzer Gepard" and you will find a lot of results in German.
My Childhood took place in the 70s and since then until today it always has been the Flakpanzer.
The US almost had the ADATS but it got canceled due to the cold war ending. It is literally perfect.
"....canceled due to the cold war ending" does not narrow down the list for that.
LOVE IT when people make a point of stumbling over ridiculous names so thanks for that! 🤣
I was saying this for years. I was shocked that armies didn't even explore this idea before Russian invasion.
The Anvil Drone by Anduril seems to be pretty fleshed out. It's just big, heavy, and durable, so when it flies directly at an enemy drone, it knocks it out of the sky.
you sir are a genius. we most definitefly want to see that gattling laser tank!
Justin ... Justiiiiin... i am the ghost of metric system past.... and i am here to tell you.... at least for military purposes remember 10 millimeter is around the width of your finger...
I will return to teach you way more about the metric system (really specific for me to return but okay i am a big fan fan of yours)
He uses every day, obviously 😉 (medication, guns, groceries - it’s everywhere, even if you are not in the military)
The cold not-dead hand of Jimmy Carter reaches out to shake his fist in your general direction! As if to say: ""C'mon, y'all! Let's count by tens like civilized folk!"
2:16 Actually first the belts were made from 2/3 HeFI and 1/3 SapheI-T rounds, against aircraft anf ground targets.
With the external belts beeing APDS.
Then with the newer models, the main armarment is loaded up with fure FAPDS, which is a "i shredd everything in that general direction, be it armor or plane".
C-RAM(aka land version of CIWS) surprisingly fits onto the same platfrom as MLRS, that uses slightly elongated Bradley chassis as base. I would have suggested also replacing the autocannon with Rolling Airframe Missile launcher to maximise cool factor as it uses the same mount as CIWS/C-RAM.
Linebacker doesn't have to return. Arm Bradley with ADATS in place of TOW-2 and ever Bradley becomes Linebacker. Or, considering that army tried to replace TOW-2 with Hellfire 2 and at the same time develop SAM based on Hellfire 2, roll them into new smaller Hellfire 2 based ADATS 2. And then strap it to Bradley.
Slap C-ram on Tayota Hilux and call it a day.
yes but thats so fucking expensive
phalanx type aa can work but they are in reality obsolete weapons with much shorter range and hit accuracy compared to intelligent flak shells systems
@hotdog9262
Since I'm lazy, let me just copypaste my comment from other chain:
"To deal with FPV drones the only thing needed is to slave RWS to APS sensors. I'm yet to see a quadcopter that can keep flying after getting hit with .308
If we talk about bigger drones though, then ideal solution is somewhere between russian Pantsir-M, german AHEAD ammo and american CIWS/CRAM software.
The issue is that for too long the close range air defense ignored munitions ie ATGMs, AGMs, guided bombs and many others. And instead focused only on their carriers. But stand off distances increased and munition costs decreased and now the truth is that you don't need to compare the price of ammo of your SPAA to enemy munitions carriers ie planes and helis, but the price of YOUR assets that you are afraid to lose. Now the job of close range SPAAG is to intercept ALL "fires", not just planes."
Basically in comment you answer to I was talking specifically about his mentions of rule of cool about C-RAM and Linebacker, not about optimal solutions to FPV drone and short range air defense. Optimal solution in my opinion is in the reposted comment above, which is about turning both RWS/APS combo installed (in the future) on most vehicles and SPAA itself into "airspace denial" platforms.
Funnily enough, that doctrine change would make doctrinal niche of MANPADs uncertain as they are too expensive to combat FPV threat and can't intercept ordnance ie AGMs, ATGMs, bombs and shells. So once again the likely evolution would be creation of "universal" ATGM/MANPAD, which Javelin and Starstreak are both technically capable of doing, but to a limited capacity.
@@TheArklyte "then ideal solution is somewhere between russian Pantsir-M, german AHEAD ammo and american CIWS/CRAM software"
id say the bofors or ahead platform is already ideal..atleast in current times. why would old CIWS/CRAM software or anything really, be better then new german tech?
M247 Sargent York: it's time to shine.
No portajohn will be left unstruck.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD We have the spare parts. We have the technology! We can rebuild him stronger...faster...able to hit test-range targets without adding radar-reflectors to them this time!
I thank you because with this video you reminded me that I still have to build the kit of this vehicle, in 1/35 scale by Tamiya, bought I don't even remember how many years ago... I'm going to get it
You could take a look at the "Mantis System" by Rheinmetall. It is essentially the "successor system" of the Gepard, already in use by the German Army.
That’s why I subbed to this channel. Yes the historians and sociologists tell you wars are fought for territory, wealth, political or ideological advantage or just vengeance. Justin understands the single reason that individual soldiers fight wars is to look cool. The pinnacle I suppose is the fighter pilot who rides around in a supersonic hot rod that the enemy can’t see (we hope) with all sorts of kick ass missiles and bombs etc. However , even the lowly 11 bravo sports body armour, a cool helmet with comms like Britney Spears and soon a new rifle with supernatural optics that can calculate the true size of your opponent’s manhood (or cup size). Just look at the Marine Corps’ dress blues. Not even Marines would be stupid enough to join the Marine Corps except damn those dress blues look cool. Yes indeed Justin, if you don’t look cool, why even fight.
I wish you were joking, but I also remember a book by Colonel Ralph Peters. He mentions Balkan & Caucasian militia gunmen he met, and the "Rambo Effect" in how they dressed...
X Band = NATO I Band (Navigation RADAR). S Band = NATO E/F Band (Air/Surface RADAR). The first is a cleaner more precise shorter range, the second is longer range with a slower pulse rate/less accurate. It all comes down to power output, rate of return and size of the array (the physical dish).
I did a short interview with ForgottenWeapons in February, where he speculated the same, especially about the Gepard. Will relaunch on a separate channel in time, as content got too diverse.
Also as a German, I feel it as cultural technical appropriation, that in the Thumbnail you say "we" and then show our beloved field cat. Jokes aside, as always, great content.
7:35 its the same with MBTs. Germany waited with sending MBTs cause they aren't soley a defensive Weapon while the Gepard with sabot rounds has also the ability to engage t-tanks. Politics
5:35 ah yes, the anti-colonial special
Quando o exército brasileiro comprou várias dessas unidades há mais de 10 anos, muitos disseram "compra de equipamento obsoleto". Mas que reviravolta meus amigos.
that front mounted thing on the barrels’ end also programs the shells to explode in the distance calculated from radar data. You don’t have to hit the target, only get close.
It would be nice if Gepard had programmable ammunition, but unfortunately it does not. The sensors at the ends of the barrels measure the muzzle velocity and thus correct the lead point. Rheinmetall's successor, the Skyranger, has programmable ammunition
@@marcogerner132 thx, got it mixed up with the self-destruct fuse the 35mm shells have.
@@lapin46 But what the Gepard could do back then and was ahead of its time was that instead of using its own search radar, it could be fed with external radar data via datalink. This meant it could remain hidden until it had switched on the target radar.
Is the outlet velocity so unpredictable that it needs to be measured every shot?
I love the dice roll of pronunciation that is the Oerlikon. I’m pretty sure it’s “early-con.” 🤓
I talked about the drone war with a friend of mine that is a soldier in the german military. He leads a small unit that installs field communication systems so he knows a lot about the drones, sinals and the range of drones. He said that the Gepard has no problem to detect the drones and shoot them down in large quantities. The only problem is to feed it with enough ammo and to produce these in large enough numbers in the factories at home.
Airburst proximity rounds... that's WWII era tech using vaccuum tubes. Surely we can do that with solid state components today.
Raspberry Pi wondering why they got an order for 200,000 microprocessors from Ukraine...
Yes, they are used on the newer systems such as sky ranger en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHEAD_ammunition?wprov=sfti1#
There is an elegance and simplicity to the WW2 way, which is helpful when you need to mass produce things which must fire in a very narrow window, having been accelerated very sharply.
the slinger bolt-on turret is current close-in master mostly because of its software. it is going on m113s and local MRAPs in Ukraine. but i am curious about how software is protected in case it is captured . . .
edit: 'when it is captured'
Really enjoy the style and quality of your videos! Keep up the great work 😊
Meanwhile the StyroPyro channel has a 50k mega watt jule thing-a-ma-bob laser turret mounted to his roof, that zaps holes through a steel truck door and instantly sets the interior on fire, in less than a second, and a mile away. So why exactly do they need expensive tanks that rattles off 2,500 20mm cannon shells per minute, which is still more expensive than a $150 quadcopter from China?
1: that truck does not draw power for all the other systems the military needs.
2: a mile is actually a pretty short range for a weapon system
3: StyroPyro is a professional who can neglect several safety systems. The military cannot
4: mass producing that system would still be really expensive
@@dominiklehn2866 Are you taking the comment seriously? Actually now that I think about it, these gun powder based weapons systems are outdated and require far too majy resources to operate. Fuel truck to keep it running, trasport truck to bring in ammunition that it consumes at an alarming rate, a whole crew to man and maintain it...
Lasers and energy weapons are the future. Easy to aim, does not run out of ammo, quiet, does not need a large crew to operate meaning load and repair jam ups ect.
But whatever, AA guns are cheap to buy and been around since last millennium I suppose.
@Ed-ty1kr yes, purely electricity based weapons systems require far less of a logistics system behind them. However, you need to get that electricity from somewhere first. That's the biggest problem with these so far. Fuel and gunpowder just has a far higher energy density and is thus easier to transport than anything else we currently have. And it's more reliable at the current technology level
@@dominiklehn2866 And to think I used to laugh at the thought of a focuse beam flashlight used as a weapon other than to blind, that to me was a Starwars joke. Even in relatively recent years I saw it as something that attacked through extended heat exposure, and not necesserally as an actual penetrating or cutting device at range. But... was I proven wrong. When a young fella with a youtube channel can build a laser from an industrial rust and paint stripping tool, you know it is more than possible for DARPA to build something. These modern lasers have a shocking range, that challanges any kinetic weapon, because kinetic loses energy needed to do damage over distance especially fired vertically, and lose accuracy at range. Lasers also have no recoil, no need to adjust for windsheer, and is easily adjusted to track fast moving targets like small drones. Ultimately lasers will soon surpass all other means to knock down flying objects even in fog, clouds, or smoke the energy beam can burn through if used as a constant beam. Mirrors get destroyed just the same due to the energy beams sudden rise in surface temp of any reflective surface. As far as power consumption obviously there will be a need for some sort of generator, but that can be overcome easily since we already have a vast variety of generators available that weigh less than heavy duty mounting hardware, 20 or 30 mm cannon barrels and shells, a crew to load and make sure it keeps firing.
@@Ed-ty1kr yes, Lasers can be very powerful and will likely become a very real weapon system. They draw a lot of power, but power requirements are always increasing with technology and generation must keep up. Of course, they do still have some drawbacks. They're difficult to maintain in the field so will likely remain on things with a large maintenance crew like ships or that return directly to a backline base, like large planes. They can't use a ballistic trajectory so won't ever replace indirect fire artillery. Really, these rapid fire systems like AA or missile defense where every millisecond of travel time counts will likely be their main application. In range they're all outcompeted by self-propelled projectiles such as missiles anyway. On the frontline itself ease of maintenance is vitally important so they probably won't be too widespread there
gepard was literally showcased on small drones so it makes sense, not to mention 35mm is a thick round with a lot of velocity so even if it wizzes by itll fuck with the stability of a drone
Really the best way to take out or decrease the use of drones has been some from or another of EWS.
We know of two examples of ongoing urban battles that both sides have use EWS to prevent/decrease the use of drones from either doing their attacks or even outright stopping them from being use in a wild area. If use and place in the right way large areas can see no drones flying over head at all and you could deployed forces in areas differently then what they have to do now.
But in regards to this Flakpanzer it's more likely a begging for anything spot gap to slow down the ongoing defeat for the AFU in a too little too late outcome. Honestly I think this would be great to deal with light armor and infantry forces overall more so than being use for air defense if again use and deployed correctly.
Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer means Anti-air-gun (cannon)-tank.
Also before any americans (or our former defence minister) complain that this is NOT infact a tank, do be reminded that this is a german vehicle and the german army names almost anything a (whatever the vehicle is supposed to do)-tank as long as it has some kind of armour.
Honestly, I don't think we need a dedicated vehicle for it, especially when that one vehicle can't cover every vehicle in an armoured formation at the same time if massed-drone attacks are being used. Future vehicles need their own miniature form of Close-In Weapon System like naval vessels have. Whether they use airbursting ammunition and GPMG's or an Electronic Warfare unit to cut the connection is debatable, but it'd be a better solution considering the number of drones that can be used at once.
btw, there is also the skranger fail of shorad systems which plays a similar role to gepard but uses ahead ammo which makes them a lot cooler
Pay close attention to where the lasers are tested, dry areas or deserts. The USSR already experimented with this in the 80's. And as a Russian general said, no one can break the laws of physics, they don't work in rain or fog.
I love your humor... I laugh, I learn !!!
3:18 yo Justin I think that’s pretty cool, what do you think?
Twin 40mm and its cousin the quad .50 cal. were both commonly used in fire base perimeter defense in Vietnam. The 1st ID air defense batteries at Ft. Riley were equipped with 20mm gatling gun style Vulcans in the early '70's.
The thing though is that tiny drones don't need 20mm, 30mm or even bigger rounds to take down. 14mm or 50cal or even 7.62 is enough if the system is good enough to keep it on target, way cheaper than the bigger ammo and you can carry a LOT more of it.
And you could mount a turret with that sized gun on a MUCH smallwr vehicle, like a toyota Hilux for example 😅
I love retroactive questions
Good video, one thing to add...the ammunition manufactured in Germany
Well the parts were made in Switzerland, and through some funny export loopholes, the rounds were assembled in Germany and good to go
New subscriber, cause your informative, and entertaining at the same time. ( From Bangkok via Seattle )
3:58 The VAADS was to be paired with the Chaparral in the SHORAD space as the Chaparral was able to reach out further than the VAADS. The US used the Avenger air defense system for many years and developed the Linebacker for a similar reason.
A slightly larger 40mm round could be equipped with a radar proximity fuse. This would make the projectile roughly six times more effective because even a near miss would take down a drone with its shrapnel. With a really good targeting system the guns could approach one kill for every shot fired, although they'll probably be programmed to fire three rounds per target for insurance.
Drone sized targets would be difficult to dected for proximity fuzes. That's why programmed timed fuzes are taking over now (AHEAD).
Skyranger 30 uses that ammunition and needs a maximum burst of 3 rounds to hit a Drone. At 1000 rounds per minute that's a burst of just 0.2 seconds.
Another reason these systems were dropped, to include the Sgt York, was that Air to ground missiles outranged the guns on the flak panzers. Which made them obsolete.
Don't forget that the projectiles also "explode" at a certain range to fill the sky with shrapnel.
As a wee little kid who loved everything with tracks and guns on it, this was always going to be my favorite for having 2 and then I realized it was named after my favorite animal and makes a WONDERFUL sound😂
Do you think those projectile velocity sensors that detect the individual velocities of each round in order to compensate when firing are cool or nah?
Some kind of huge EMP pulse generator that could be aimed, would take out any drone swarm. I wonder if anybody is working on that. I understand the potential drawbacks to possible civilian and friendly-fire type issues, but if you HAVE to stop drone swarms.... risks have to be taken.
the interesting thing about drones is that the only solution to them (esp en masse) seem to be having the capacity to have autonomous anti-air defense like a Gepard system, which only relatively developed countries have the means to produce effectively and with modern protections. its a parallel to guns being cheap and quick to produce but now with double, or triple etc. the resources needed to counter it. very weird power dynamics we're moving into here and i definitely am glad my VA profile basically screams 'do not call from reserves'
The fundamental problem is that high tech modern vehicles are so expensive and time consuming tio produce that I struggle to visualize what a general eurasian war would look like.
The USSR produced 500k artillery pieces and 110k tanks and SPGs during WW2 , while fighting a war on their own soil , with their industrial heartland being the battlefield.
Such numbers are just impossible today , even for America and China.
Waiting for every remote weapon station to be upgraded with anti-drone features. Like the FPV and drop drones are hardly inconspicuous and software can do the actual targetting.
I’d recommend taking a look at the skyranger! It’s basically a reimagining of this idea for drones and other low flying aircraft
The development of military equipment didn’t hit the wall in Vietnam that it did with the GWOT because the Cold War was still going on. This meant stuff like the M42 Duster were already in service and simply went over to Vietnam and used as makeshift support vehicles
Here in my hometown a Dutch parallel development of the Gepard, the Cheetah, used to be manufactured.
The Cheetah performed significantly better than the Gepard but was notoriously difficult and hideously costly to operate.
Attempts to restart a production line were aborted quickly - the necessary heavy industry is no longer there.
A goalkeeper system on a tank hull would make an interesting and feasible combination but would be a bit of overkill for a drone.
@@dutchsailor6620 Skyranger 30.
3:46 who else was expecting those autocannons to just rip through that cow?!
in ukraine, the gepard I was found to be very effective against drones. they usually need just 3 rounds per barrel (eg 6) to take down a drone.
and then it engages the next drone.
or in other words, those 300-something rounds they load in bring down a significant amount of drones.
and yes, they are that precise.
AFAIK the Gepard doesn't use incediary rounds as standard armament anymore but FAPDS - a fragmenting round that detonates in a shotgun-blast like airburst, similar to what the Puma fires. Guess it's a Rheinmetall thing. Not sure if that's the ammunition Ukraine is getting right now though.
Good thing is that all this probably made them shelf the nuclear-powered-drone-that-can-stay-airborne-indefinitely idea again. It's a die-hard that one, and I know for a fact they had it out looking at it back when the Predator was still new and shiny, cruising the skies of Afghanistan and Iraq. They figured since it was an unmanned vehicle, it wouldn't need all the heavy shielding which was what originally made the project unfeasible back in the '60s.