31:57 ok, while his waft does kill him when to close from the top blastzone, that also means you can use it as a recovery move, while yes, you do waste a kill move to recover, but hey, it's better than dying, and since his up special goes pretty much nowhere, you will be forced to use it to recover from time to time
I still love playing Smash 4, personally. I feel like it’s definitely the most underrated Smash game by far now, but I still love it. Then again, I still play ALL Smash games, though. Lol.
Since Brawl has never had a tournament anywhere near as large as Melee, and Melee players recently showed off the true capabilities of Yoshi and DK, I wonder if we can still see Brawl players push some characters to greater limits. It’s nearly impossible that the top tiers in the game will be surpassed (although I personally think Pikachu could get there ), but I can easily see a handful of characters push into top 10 and have at least capable matchups against almost any top tier.
Meta Knight is the best character in the game, and its not even close. And Ice Climbers has a 0 to death chain grab you cant escape done right making them 2nd. Wario is also easily top 10. Appreciate you trying your best to give analysis tho. Go Brawl
So comments about your Ike and Meta Knight placements have already been talked about several times so I'm just gonna go over some other things I want bring up. Kirby kinda struggles. Characters in this game that are good typically have good speed, range or both of those things. Olimar and Snake for example are brutal for Kirby to try to touch. Kirby is much slower in the air so Diddy Bananas suck for him. Marth is really fast and tippers can end his life super early. Not that he is without upsides but as characters get better his odds of winning fall off. Luigi I would move from like, Upper C Tier to like the bottom of that tier. He haves some unique flaws that makes his other weaknesses worse. Being so slippery is actually awful, being slow to stop running is rough but the worst thing is that if he shields an attack he is sent away much further than anyone else where he could Up Smash or Grab otherwise. Coupled with the fact he struggles with long ranged attacks and projectiles means he struggles to get much done and for very long if he does.
Just to let you know, these rankings are more based on how good these characters are individually, and less on how good they are in certain matchups, so that probably helps Kirbys placement on my rankings. Luigi is definitely a mixed bag for me, I haven't played him a ton, so when I do, I'm sure his ranking will change a bit, but for now I feel pretty comfortable with him in c tier.
@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uq Makes sense, I read your channel description before too so I understand the reasoning. So every ranking method haves flaws. The way I like to think about tiering is more around matchups and importance of those matchups. The flaw with the way I think about it is that matchups change and innovate so it's moreso thinking about temporary conditions, like ZSS used to be considered just meh before Salem won a big tournament over the best player at the time. The flaw with ranking them primarily on the characters individual merits is that other characters or the game itself could be hostile to a character, like what I said about Kirby. He haves plenty of amazing things about him but it can be hard to make him work against a lot of the higher tiers. Tldr is that I get where you're coming from however I also think that you should consider a few different things like matchups more when making a tier list.
I have been studying individual matchups recently because I am planning on doing a character matchup tier list series for every character. It might be a while, though, until I start the video series, so I don't feel comfortable yet making tier lists based on the characters individual matchups.
Listen man....Ike has sluggish moves and that is plenty to keep him as a mid tier! His side b does little to aid his recovery and no you don't NEED a projectile to keep Ike at bay. It's called transparency in competitive play. If you push Ike far enough from ledge with a high amount of percentage and his only means to get back is his side b for horizontal range, its can be easily disrupted from many methods. Any character can simply double jump and interfere with his recovery method. Any character with a ranged attack can also do the exact same thing and likely return back to ledge. Ike will be put in a helpless state and his up b won't do him any justice. I highly doubt you play super smash flash 2 but there is a character in the ssf2 meta that plays identical to Ike but his name is Ichigo. See with Ichigo, he has the same concept as Ike's side b but the difference between the two is in ssf2, Ichigo is given transcendency of his active hitbox can that bypass an opponent in front of him. There is 0 disruption and Ichigo therefore has a much better chance in getting back to stage. Ike on the other hand doesn't have that. Even if an opponent is in front of Ike, he must collide the attack and depending on the distance and if Ike even has his double jump, will determine if he can even make it back to stage. Keep in mind I'm speaking of one major aspect of Ike that is a pitfall to why he's not a superior character. You can have all the range and power in the world but none of that matters if your kit is exploitable from characters that are simply better in every other way possible, including frame data, projectiles, air speed, weight, and the list can go on and on. I feel I speak for many smash players who understand a great methodology of competitive play in realizing Ike has some serious issues and especially in the consideration of Brawl, where the meta itself is quite unbalanced. If you can somehow make a comparison to an early patched Ike from Smash Ultimate (or known as vanilla Ult) you might be pleasantly surprised how Ike was taken into accountability of being a good character and my suggestion to you is making the comparison in the movement differences between a pre-patched Ike in Ultimate compared to him in Brawl. I will commend your efforts in creating a tier list, but you make too many hot takes in my opinion and I simply cannot agree with the majority of your statements and reasoning
Who said this tier list was based on competitive play? Watch the first few minutes of the video again. Right now I' am focused on making more videos on this channel, and I can't if I have to keep arguing about Ike. I see your points and I understand your reasoning. Many other people have told me the same thing, but I still don't see it. I just don't think their is any possible way Ike could be below high tier. The only points you made that I'll argue, is that not all of ikes moves are sluggish. Look at his nuetral attack. Ike's heaviness does give him very fast fall speed, but it also usually prevents him from getting hit far enough off stage, to where his side special is his only recovery option. Side special is a good move for ike, since you don't believe me, here is mew2king saying it. Skip to 2:10 of th-cam.com/video/himIwayoEds/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared . Either he would have to get hit by a very strong move like forward smash(which most good players should be able to avoid), or he is at higher percent(which means he has already made his stock count). Ike may not have a projectile,(BUT I MEAN Meta Knight doesn't either) and I'm sure you consider him number 1 for your tier list. Nobody who watches competitive play will ever rank Ike high, because quite honestly nobody knows how to play with him correctly. I've seen Ike in competitive play and the person controlling him usually just spams forward air and nuetral air, both are useful moves, but they should not be relied on. Ike was underused in competitive play and that's the truth, and when he was used, he was misused. If what I said in the video and what I said in this comment didn't at least make you consider rethinking your position on Ike, then nothing will.
![Ganondorf in Super Smash Bros - The Best Worst Character [Bumbles McFumbles]](/img/n.gif)
31:57 ok, while his waft does kill him when to close from the top blastzone, that also means you can use it as a recovery move, while yes, you do waste a kill move to recover, but hey, it's better than dying, and since his up special goes pretty much nowhere, you will be forced to use it to recover from time to time
Is this bait? How is Meta Knight not the top of the top tier? Tornado alone is better than half the roster, even in casual play.
much better quality that last time, keep up the good work!
I wonder who the true Knight of Brawl’s Meta is… I suppose we shall wait and see
Note: Most People are Increasingly Playing Brawl once Wii U Smash 4 is Dead! 😂
I still love playing Smash 4, personally. I feel like it’s definitely the most underrated Smash game by far now, but I still love it. Then again, I still play ALL Smash games, though. Lol.
@@MasterSprintersan1 Me to.
Oh my god. Someone else besides me that plays all the smash games. That is awesome! @@MasterSprintersan1
@@CONSUMEDMexiLAG Oh, heck yeah! Lol. I’m glad I am not alone in that. Each game delivers its own unique experiences, so why not you know? :)
@MasterSprintersan1 I agree! Do you have discord? Maybe we can play smash bros online sometime
Since Brawl has never had a tournament anywhere near as large as Melee, and Melee players recently showed off the true capabilities of Yoshi and DK, I wonder if we can still see Brawl players push some characters to greater limits.
It’s nearly impossible that the top tiers in the game will be surpassed (although I personally think Pikachu could get there ), but I can easily see a handful of characters push into top 10 and have at least capable matchups against almost any top tier.
Your The Best Brawl Ike TH-camr on this Channel!
What is this tierlist based on?
My experience with these characters.
@@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uq oh, that makes more sense, I’m a big Ike fan as well, if I played Brawl, I would 100% main Ike
Love Ike, good character
Is your profile Zelgius?
I respect your Opinion about the SSBB Tier List! 👍🏿
Meta Knight is the best character in the game, and its not even close. And Ice Climbers has a 0 to death chain grab you cant escape done right making them 2nd. Wario is also easily top 10. Appreciate you trying your best to give analysis tho. Go Brawl
Yeah I thought those two were set
So comments about your Ike and Meta Knight placements have already been talked about several times so I'm just gonna go over some other things I want bring up.
Kirby kinda struggles. Characters in this game that are good typically have good speed, range or both of those things. Olimar and Snake for example are brutal for Kirby to try to touch. Kirby is much slower in the air so Diddy Bananas suck for him. Marth is really fast and tippers can end his life super early. Not that he is without upsides but as characters get better his odds of winning fall off.
Luigi I would move from like, Upper C Tier to like the bottom of that tier. He haves some unique flaws that makes his other weaknesses worse. Being so slippery is actually awful, being slow to stop running is rough but the worst thing is that if he shields an attack he is sent away much further than anyone else where he could Up Smash or Grab otherwise. Coupled with the fact he struggles with long ranged attacks and projectiles means he struggles to get much done and for very long if he does.
Just to let you know, these rankings are more based on how good these characters are individually, and less on how good they are in certain matchups, so that probably helps Kirbys placement on my rankings. Luigi is definitely a mixed bag for me, I haven't played him a ton, so when I do, I'm sure his ranking will change a bit, but for now I feel pretty comfortable with him in c tier.
@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uq Makes sense, I read your channel description before too so I understand the reasoning.
So every ranking method haves flaws. The way I like to think about tiering is more around matchups and importance of those matchups.
The flaw with the way I think about it is that matchups change and innovate so it's moreso thinking about temporary conditions, like ZSS used to be considered just meh before Salem won a big tournament over the best player at the time. The flaw with ranking them primarily on the characters individual merits is that other characters or the game itself could be hostile to a character, like what I said about Kirby. He haves plenty of amazing things about him but it can be hard to make him work against a lot of the higher tiers.
Tldr is that I get where you're coming from however I also think that you should consider a few different things like matchups more when making a tier list.
I have been studying individual matchups recently because I am planning on doing a character matchup tier list series for every character. It might be a while, though, until I start the video series, so I don't feel comfortable yet making tier lists based on the characters individual matchups.
Listen man....Ike has sluggish moves and that is plenty to keep him as a mid tier! His side b does little to aid his recovery and no you don't NEED a projectile to keep Ike at bay. It's called transparency in competitive play. If you push Ike far enough from ledge with a high amount of percentage and his only means to get back is his side b for horizontal range, its can be easily disrupted from many methods. Any character can simply double jump and interfere with his recovery method. Any character with a ranged attack can also do the exact same thing and likely return back to ledge. Ike will be put in a helpless state and his up b won't do him any justice.
I highly doubt you play super smash flash 2 but there is a character in the ssf2 meta that plays identical to Ike but his name is Ichigo. See with Ichigo, he has the same concept as Ike's side b but the difference between the two is in ssf2, Ichigo is given transcendency of his active hitbox can that bypass an opponent in front of him. There is 0 disruption and Ichigo therefore has a much better chance in getting back to stage. Ike on the other hand doesn't have that. Even if an opponent is in front of Ike, he must collide the attack and depending on the distance and if Ike even has his double jump, will determine if he can even make it back to stage.
Keep in mind I'm speaking of one major aspect of Ike that is a pitfall to why he's not a superior character. You can have all the range and power in the world but none of that matters if your kit is exploitable from characters that are simply better in every other way possible, including frame data, projectiles, air speed, weight, and the list can go on and on. I feel I speak for many smash players who understand a great methodology of competitive play in realizing Ike has some serious issues and especially in the consideration of Brawl, where the meta itself is quite unbalanced. If you can somehow make a comparison to an early patched Ike from Smash Ultimate (or known as vanilla Ult) you might be pleasantly surprised how Ike was taken into accountability of being a good character and my suggestion to you is making the comparison in the movement differences between a pre-patched Ike in Ultimate compared to him in Brawl.
I will commend your efforts in creating a tier list, but you make too many hot takes in my opinion and I simply cannot agree with the majority of your statements and reasoning
Who said this tier list was based on competitive play? Watch the first few minutes of the video again. Right now I' am focused on making more videos on this channel, and I can't if I have to keep arguing about Ike. I see your points and I understand your reasoning. Many other people have told me the same thing, but I still don't see it. I just don't think their is any possible way Ike could be below high tier. The only points you made that I'll argue, is that not all of ikes moves are sluggish. Look at his nuetral attack. Ike's heaviness does give him very fast fall speed, but it also usually prevents him from getting hit far enough off stage, to where his side special is his only recovery option. Side special is a good move for ike, since you don't believe me, here is mew2king saying it. Skip to 2:10 of th-cam.com/video/himIwayoEds/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared . Either he would have to get hit by a very strong move like forward smash(which most good players should be able to avoid), or he is at higher percent(which means he has already made his stock count). Ike may not have a projectile,(BUT I MEAN Meta Knight doesn't either) and I'm sure you consider him number 1 for your tier list. Nobody who watches competitive play will ever rank Ike high, because quite honestly nobody knows how to play with him correctly. I've seen Ike in competitive play and the person controlling him usually just spams forward air and nuetral air, both are useful moves, but they should not be relied on. Ike was underused in competitive play and that's the truth, and when he was used, he was misused. If what I said in the video and what I said in this comment didn't at least make you consider rethinking your position on Ike, then nothing will.
Meta Knight is so broken that there's a Drake parody about it.
Super Smash Bros Brawl , nice content I really liked it
@IOSARBX Thank You
bro looking like we're the millers 💀
Wait what how is mk not in SSS 😂
What Do You Think of This Ike 3v1 Match I Made: th-cam.com/video/Vu-YfNf51Dw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rOJMPsMEisk8O51q