Some Star Citizen Combat Basics Every Player Should Know (Ft. JoHnathan Winters)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ย. 2022
- In Star Citizen, no matter who you are or what you’re doing, as you move away from security areas, you will be at more risk. It’s important that players know how to defend themselves or successfully evade pirates, so I took the opportunity to bring in combat TH-camr JoHnathan Winters to talk about the basics of what players might expect. We also discuss the reality of security versus non-security areas, and how this may all change with capital ships controlling the battlefield.
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#starcitizen #starcitizenpvp #StarCitizencombat - เกม
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Johnathan Winters has an excellent channel for combat basics. His explanations are detailed and thorough. The key for me with time constraints is to find time to review them and practice. I mostly want to learn for PvE bounties. I am what PvPrs would call a carebear since I don't care much for PvP. That said, I know SC has players that will engage and I need to know how to defend myself. A great point Johnathan Winters made in this interview/discussion was also at the very least be able to know how to get away. It is a lot to learn, but I am committed to doing so.
The visuals really help too!
Very nice to see a skilled PVP'er that think that it is room for players that don't want to focus on fighter gameplay to. Respect 😀
John Winters = immense knowledge and wisdom...I recently just started to watch his videos...and very thankful...in < 1 min I knew that I know nothing after 5 months...much respect to JW..and he wants to pass on his wisdom which I think is very kool...Again Space Tomato has the SC legends for guests..great video as always...thanks
Sorry about the audio at 28:00 and the video at 30:37
Don't worry, it's not actually the end!
JW's channel is one of the best out there. His live streams are great too. He'll answer anyone any time. Mandatory for your star citizen subscriptions list and a swell guy. Big ups.
the coolest thing about SC atleast for me is that some whack ass shit always happens and there is always and adventure loads of fun man
Loved this chat. I’m pretty awful at combat now but am determined to practice and put in the work to get better, and this type of conversation really resonated with me. Definitely checking out JW videos.
I continue to appreciate the dialogue you bring to the community with the other content creator guests you bring on, it's amazing!
You're like my go to "Star Citizen News Channel", and I overly appreciate what you're doing for community by creating this space for content creators to talk up the big and small aspects of this massive game.
Cheers mate
Wow. This guy is great.... just went and watched one of his videos and it's fantastic!
He really understands gaming on a larger scale. Where Avenger_one loses his way is saying things like everyone should learn PvP because there is PvP, where Johnathan gets that lots of people just aren't interested in PvP at all.
Great guest, great interview. Thanks to you both!
It was great seeing Jonathan on the launch sequence and getting his perspective on the current state and upcoming state of things to come. I truly enjoy his content as it is informative and recommend it to anyone interested in star citizen in general as it really covers the essentials along with some nice cinematics/visuals.
Keenan really touched upon one thing I think a lot of people face when it comes to combat and PvP specifically is that it can be very overwhelming when faced with what is most certainly a more skilled opponent and results in sensory overload and what amounts to panic in these situations. Granted I am not a skilled PvPer in any sense of the world but to get rid of that sense of not being able to process what is going on is to practice it and get comfortable with it as Jonathan eluded to. Put simply "Do the thing." Which goes for everything, general flight maneuvering. de-coupled mode flight, ground combat/FPS combat and more.
Keep the great launch sequence discussions coming 🍅Tomato fresh!
Something I think gets over_looked in some of these discussions is that "PvP" is seen as "fight to the death" but having the ability to get away, especially if it takes some kind of knowledge or practice to be good at, IS PvP. I think it could be beneficial to start thinking of PvP in a broader context. Coming from EVE, this is one of things that helped me enjoy it more and in fact even appreciate low-sec and null-sec. I was never a combatant, but learning to get away effectively, was still a kind of PvP
love this convo, you guys went into so many aspects of combat, very interesting!!
Excellent video, ty for the content 💯 I dont have it yet (SC) but ive been practicing my flight sim skills on Spacebourne 2 😉
I feel like johnathans content is a lot better than avenger ones, after watching a lot of both, it’s easier to understand, he doesn’t patronize anyone and isn’t a dick…
Well said 👏
These combat tips are really the same tips that worked in Freelancer. I never fought with engines turned on. Just used thrusters to maneuver. I was never good at PVP, but I could almost always hold my own against AI as long as their ships and weapons did not out class mine by a large degree.
Request for the next podcast: Ship designs and how they stay within their lane of lore. Have the ships of the past, present and concepts actually stuck with the lore of that company over the years or have they deviated to please the audience of today?
I'm miffed that MISC has contracts with Xi'an but no ship that I've seen has any technology that isn't human or Xi'an influenced.
14:07 a benefit with the lag pip is that you focus on looking at the target, not at a pip in front of it, so you will also have constant information about the orientation of your target. And I think you get the exact same understanding of the relative vector from your lag pip as your lead pip
Tutorial? It seems to me that Sq42 might end up being a tutorial for the PU. It is going to be a MMO and not everyone will have to pilot a ship and I believe, when fully realized, SC will not require you to have a ship to have an enjoyable experience.
Yeah it'll make for a very good tutorial and introduce to the true verse experience
You can't have a separate $60 tutorial...
This is Star Citizen : virtually everyone will want (and have to) pilot their own ships. Crewing will be a personal choice of "if I feel like it at the moment".
@@captainharlock3998 is 1000% correct. The game has been very clear that buying a standalone ship does NOT allow you to play the game which I am aware the OP does not apparently want to do. You must buy a starter package ... that INCLUDES a ship! For 10 years that has been an essential non-optional part of getting into Star Citizen. Not trying to be rude, but if you want to pay $45 dollars to play a game that gives you a space ship and plan to never fly it, you do as you please. There are currently NO ways to earn credits (in-game currency) to finance your livelihood in Star Citizen that do NOT involve using a ship. Oh, you will hire someone to take you to a bunker or area to do mining... With how much starter currency (if you used someone's referral code which is 5000 in-game credits) you begin the game with, I do not think you will be able to accomplish much. Being a part of an org(anization) is a definite work around, but you will be reliant on an org mate or friend for whatever activity you plan to do (trade/cargo haul/mining/salvage) Perfect example is what @Captain Harlock gave: you can function as a crew member on someone else's ship. Fine, its not YOUR ship, ...but you're still ON a ship. Completing Squadron 42 unlocks an exclusive Fighter (yes another SHIP), the F8 Lightning, that you can fly and fight with in Star Citizen. I absolutely want that fighter to add to my hangar! As I stated, with the starter package, you get a ship. Chris Roberts wants you to fly a ship. Certainly you don't have to, but I don't think Star Citizen will EVER get to a point where a player does not need a ship for an aspect of available gameplay (transport/FPS combat/trading/mining etc). Just my opinion.
Great guest, & I'll check out Jonathan Winters. I honestly thought he'd passed, but he looks great. I'll be sure to check his content, as I have no stomach for PVP, but know I should be prepared to at least escape effectively, when possible.
26:25 Tomato, at its core this is a flight simulator. A tutorial can only teach you about your ships systems and procedures for doing things that every ship needs to do (land, refuel, navigate, etc). Everything else comes with experience
Chris Roberts wants to make a game to satisfy all players. That's a tall order. There's Aeena Commander for PVP, but PVP players don't confine themselves to that area. There's no real challenge in killing a player who doesn't know how to fight. Still you will see players doing it. Players sometimes just want to make their cargo run and rack up some credits. It's bad enough that they have to deal with AI pirates. Yet there will always be a risk in any venture. As long as every player has a good chance of success in their chosen tasks they will like the game.
With that said. The crime stat element can play an important role. If you can keep harassers out of action long enough to allow friendly players to earn their money and have a reasonable chance of surviving every job most players should be happy.
Cannot wait to play this game in a couple of days! 😁
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask for help.
Jumping in for the free fly? It will be very busy those days, feel free to reach out for help, there are bound to be some server issues!
@@SpaceTomatoToo yeah! I mean, I pledged back during invictus, just didn't have any free time until this month. Thinking of live streaming it but I'm not sure if I should do it on TH-cam or Twitch 😅.
@@vorpalrobot will do 😁👍
I'm hoping that at 28:30, the long term reputation of each person's history of violance, not just a current crimestat, will automatically have robust AI around these players, especially if they're all within, say new quantum boosting distance from each other, where they could all be separate, but still converge on a spot on cue.
34:53 True, but a release candidate, "feature complete" PU would come a heck of a lot sooner, if we still didn't also have devs working on Star Marine, Arena Commander, Theaters of When (seriously, is this not even a real thing anymore? Sure doesn't seem like it, with something like over a year and a half of hearing NOTHING about it), and obviously SQ42.
Good stuff as always.
I don't even think at the highest level it becomes a skill ceiling... I feel like, at the highest skill level it becomes less a skill issue and more a GEAR issue. And I don't mean gear in game, I mean the gear in your hands...
well, for totally non-combat player, my advise is that power down your weapon, use a low signture ship, when you get to an orbital marker and perpare to jump to a location, remember where this orbital marker is and perpare your jump engine. pre-set a two-jump route, if any red marker ship pop up on your radar, no matter that's NPC or PC, jump to your orbital marker and start your pre-set route jump at once.
Fuel is cheap, your equipments are not.
wish all none combat player can play their star citizen peacfully.
Embody the many-millions-of-years of human adaptation. We are both mentally & biologically equipped to both conciously and subconciously adapt to adverse environments and situations, to troubleshoot problems and find their solutions and to learn from failure so that we may taste success in the future. That is all there is to the new combat system and to Star Citizen as a whole: those who deny their very-base human nature and fail to even attempt to adapt will be the victim of natural selection. Let us also not forget that Humans are tribal, if you lack combat ability then rely on your tribe, and in return they can rely on you for whatever you excell at.
What happened to your HOTAS? I just got HOSAS and it’s comfy but I think I like the thruster better.
Also learning M&K is SO rewardingZ sit down and devote yourself to playing through Doom Eternal on M&K. It’s a workout and it is SO fun.
I tried playing with controller today and I don't know why this happens but when I have a stick pulling back to pull up makes sense.
But on controller I have an aneurysm trying to fly the normal way and I need to push stick up to go up, probably because that's how FPS camera controls. But for whatever reason I could not find invert vertical as a setting and I just gave up ngl.
J only played one game with a stick. Ut was Tachyon. I can't play tachyon with mouse and keyboard.
I've never played Freelancer with a stick. Would have neen nice, but the game did not support that as far as I know.
That being said. It's a different experience and each method has it good points. You can get comfortable with mouse and keyboard. You can get comfortable with a stick. I seldom play on game consoles so I'm not comfortable with a game controller. I hear it's good and believe it is. I'm just too lazy to learn it.
Johnathan mentions a m&k fighter towards the end of the video. I can't quite make out the name? Anyone know? It sounds like ako-(something)
Awesome video everyone should check out winters channel if they want to learn pvp Hes one of the best SC pilots I've played with and one of the best teachers to learn from. great video both of you
2 SciFi References for the opposite extreme of Star Wars/Star Trek battles > Battlestar Galactica (2004 remake) and The Expanse. The latter 2 were depicted more realistically whiel teh former 2 are more for entertainment value at best. SC is attempting to land somewhere in the middle leaning more towards SIM over "video game".
40:20 LOL
Credit where credit is due, jonathan might be good in combat, but "expect to die alot" is certainly not the goal. They are adding more and more mechanics to not only take dying longer but to also make staying alive the ultimate goal.
Its not an action shooter with fight/die/respawn/repeat gameplay. Its a life simulation where death (final one) has an impact on your gameplay, make you start over again (not from 0 though). Ship claims will be longer and everything will be slower to aid that immersion gameplay.
For all those that want cut throat action without all of these constrains they say they will have a solution: SM, AC and TOW will be available from within the game to give you that action PvP fix.
But for the Verse everything will have serious mid- and longterm consequences that will not be easily negatable. Yes it will be slow and take time to get back where you have been. Because that is the ultimate goal: stay alive as long as possible. So killing will be hard and difficult.
I'm very interested in SC, but not interested in combat etc. I just wanna live a peaceful life exploring the galaxy. Is that even possible?
If I even google the question all that comes up is combat guides and tips 🤷♂
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
i think, this game is/will be an MMO, if you dont want to fight, hire people that will do it for you.... if not its on you...
yes, the EVE idea is right there should be places that are High-sec/Low-sec/Null-sec and if you mine/haul in the safe are then you will get moderate rewards, but if you go out into the fairly law less space you can make good money, but the risk of being robbed/killed will be there, and you either risk it alone, or you hire escorts (no, not that kind of escort, the protecting kind of escort) or you dont risk it all, but then it will take more time, and also fairly boring...
yeet
Lol you'll never have orbits if they keep slowing everyone down! 7.8k per second!
The style of the fight will be determined by your ship, not the model.
Combat basics require the mastering of your controls and how to use them based upon the input devices you are using. SC has tons of controls and commands that must be learned and mastered before you have any chance of beating any opponent.
Ontop of that, things are changing pretty regularly still!
This will upset a lot of current players. But when this game inevitably releases it’ll have so much to do outside of ship stuff that it’ll attract more people who will play planet bound content than actual ship combat or ship gameplay in general. It will be majority planet people. And they will make demands and conflicts between flight players and planet bound players will lead to headaches. Sounds like fun
I kinda disagree with a lot that was said here. 1. I feel like the game already has reason not to kill someone right away. I’ve seen videos of players holding people hostage to make more money off them. Sure that’s small but it does exist. 2. I think this game has so many opportunities for random, extremely unique, and exciting encounters. It’s a sandbox game, and it only occurs if you engage with other people in the community but it does exist. I think they have good points regarding this but imo and with my experience of this game, not enough credit was given when talking about this. That being said, you get out what you put in. I actively play with a community that engages with other communities and even engage in RP.
The idea of fleet engagements (ie EVE with 00's or even 000's of ships involved) is very far away given SC throws 30ks with just 50 players.
As far as spatial awareness goes, I think our current HUD's are just awful. They show the speed and distance to a target, but only when we are looking directly at the target, not to mention the text is so small that's it's very difficult to take the time to focus on it during combat. Also what doesn't help are the LOD's (level of detail). A ship could be flying at you at 500 m/s OR 50 m/s and it looks exactly the same until it gets extremely close and by then it's too late. @Space Tomato, if you really want to know what it's like to have a much better awareness of the target you are fighting in relation to your own position, then try looking at the old X3 games. That HUD system is 10x better than the current SC one. It provides hull health in a graph bar, speed and distance is LARGE text that you can easily read during combat so you have a much better understanding of how to approach or disengage an enemy.
35:15 heck no.... look at ED and how tacked on stuff like spacelegs feel.... pushing out a base game and then tacking on extras never works well... it allways has the tacked on feel. so hell no should the push out a minimal viable product.
I personally think a dedicated small community is better than a "game for everyone". In the attempt to please everyone, games often fall into mediocrity. I really hope they keep going the hard-core route.
Doubt it. Think of it strictly as a business. You’re going to make a game that brings in as much money as possible. Going hardcore will lose you possible players and money.
@@C4R1TON which is exactly why I tell people, what we are reading for "death of a spaceman" and "ship insurance" will not be implemented that way once its all said and done. Will it still be detrimental to die or loose your ship? It will be, but not as harsh as they have laid out.
Eve online has been alive for over 19 years. From a business perspective, a long lifespan is important to an mmo.
More important than the usual player, who's still chasing that mmo dragon, and will likely leave for the next one shortly after.
@@ScarredCitizen Straight up simple permadeath is a garbage idea for an online game, and always has been. Lag. Power outages. Sabotage by toddlers and cats. OS crash. Server error. There's a hundred things that can go wrong and 'kill' you and it's not your fault. No one wants to put time, effort, and care into a game with permadeath and then lose everything because some backhoe somewhere accidentally hit a fiber optic cable, or an eagle kamikaze'd into the transformer outside your house so hard it blew (happened to me).
Fudging permadeath with cybernetics, insurance, etc. is perfectly acceptable. I think the regen thing is kind of stupid, but they made the decision to let people respawn soon after death without a mandatory timeout, and had to explain it somehow. But it's one of those things that if you think about it too hard, it breaks the universe.
The problem with PVP is that you are likeky to find yourself going against a better pilot. Some things require experience and practice to develope skill.
A new player will have none of these. The NPCs are designed to easy to kill. If you find yourself up against a skilled pilot who knows what he's doing your chances of survival are slim to none.
Getting away is often the only option for survival, and even that can be hard to do.
Because of these factors any player who has a strong sense of competetivness is going to be attravted to PVP. They don't want to be challenged by AI. They want the personal challenge of human on human competition. That is what they live for. For these players the goal will always be to take on other players. Just flying around and earning money isn't what they are into. These are the people newbies want to avoid. Unless they don't mind dying.
Ther is orbits. My but. The ship need to be in cupld mode. Me and my frend left a carrak. High up in. A planet. Don’t remember wish one amd you could se the ship move very very slowly to the left.
No easy link to his channel is a little disappointing
Give me all the complexity, give me all the danger, give me all the flight model, resource management. Stop trying to please everyone and leave the casual games to the filthy casuals
He actually gets combat as intended very wrong. CIG said clearly that they want light fighters to be the incontestable king of 1v1. Meaning a skilled pilot in a Gladius vs a skilled pilot in the Warden, the Gladius wins. It's not wrong meta due to false numbers : that's literally how CIG wants the fighting to be. And heavies to be used against larger ships.
They never said incontestable. They said 1v1 is their niche. A skilled pilot against a fully crewed Vanguard should be a more even fight than you're insinuating once the Vanguards turret comes into play on top of the Vanguards greater dps, shields, hull and component redundancy.
Case in point I tend to rarely come off worse against light fighters when I'm in a Cutty, Vanguard, Hurricane or Scorpius with their turrets manned.
@@gyratingwolpertiger6851 yeah, a crewed ship is usually more than a light fighter can handle.
@@oldman1111 Taken a MSR out PvP bounty hunting more than once to great success as a demonstration of that.
I don't see Pyro as a PvP hotspot. It will most likely be even safer than Stanton. The "bad" PvP most PvE-players complain about is from Gankers, Griefers and Pirates. Well.... And those are the players who actively go where they find easy targets like haulers or miners, or PvE players in general are. And this will be Stanton. Only PvP players who actively seek engaging PvP against other PvP players will go to Pyro. Everyone else will keep harrasing PvE players in Stanton. The divide between Pyro and Stanton that claims Pyro as the dangerous place is backwards. For sole PvE players, Pyro will be safer.
Turrets do not just get fixed, they must have the concept and implementation proven. So far it has not been proven to be capable on an MMO scale, and only for small 10v10 maybe. Server Meshing will make or break this game.
The Worst part is that this game is being built as it is in concept.
This game will be about as much of a flight simulator as eve is. Just part of being an MMO. Not everyone is a combat pilot and making it crucial to have hotas setup = dead game on launch.
What happened to your HOTAS? I just got HOSAS and it’s comfy but I think I like the thruster better.
Also learning M&K is SO rewardingZ sit down and devote yourself to playing through Doom Eternal on M&K. It’s a workout and it is SO fun.