It always gets me to Sarah Jane hugging her son and crying saying “he was so young” she’s already accepted that they are all going to die and her son may as well already be dead Sad shit
I think you missed the connection between Sarah Jane & Davros, the fact she was there at the very beginning of Davros creating the Daleks & is then there to what he thinks will be the end of the universe as they know it was a great touch. I really think Sarah Jane's importance is underrated & overlooked in these episodes
Consider the way the Meta Crisis Doctor dresses. He wears a suit, just like 10, but without the trademark pinstripes we (usually) see. 10 always has a plain formal shirt, and often a tie, under his blazer. What does Meta Crisis have? A t-shirt, like 9 did. Part of me wonders if at some point there were plans to have the Meta Crisis Doctor have the appearance of 9, which would have been so cool and interesting to see play out since Meta is essentially the 9th Doctor anyway. Obviously, considering the bitterness Eccleston has for Davies this never happened, but one can dream
Series 4 is the best series of Doctor Who, no questions asked, and this 3 part finale "Turn Left", "The Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" is the best story from Doctor Who in it's entirety. I will always adore this story because I feel that it is as close to a perfect Doctor Who Story that we will ever get. And Yes, I definitely think that the cliffhanger at the end of The Stolen Earth is the greatest cliffhanger in all of Doctor Who.
julie everett I can even say of its 50 year history. The classics are held in high regard because they’re the ‘originals’. But at the end of the day they’re inferior in every way to new who. At least New who series 1-6 anyway
@@obiwankenobi687 both new who and classic who have their strengths. Personally I prefer the 4 part+ format and even the actors who play the Doctor are better on average for me in classic who (12 is still my personal favourite tho). And classic who has some amazing stories and some of which are among my favorites. So basically i completely disagree with you.
@@sirsplendid4769 I do really wish new-who could have at least one or two seasons with a 4 part+ format. Given how popular the 50th Anniversary was I'm surprised we don't see more long-form Dr Who stuff. I think overall the new-who Doctors have been more consistently brilliant, but I think the writing has shown a similar decline to classic who albeit over a much shorter period of time.
@LittleRedRhuari RRR OK, when you say "hap hazarded," do you refer to the comic or the TV special? Cuz I'm pretty sure they built up to it on TV since 2018 at least.
Daldi I actually hate the reality bomb. It makes no sense. If there are infinite universes then sure the bomb would’ve gone off in at least one of them and then the entire multiverse would be destroyed. Reality bomb’s stupid. Should’ve just destroyed the one universe
Another reason the meta-crisis resorted to genocide is precisely because he was meta-crisis, meaning he was part human. The time lord part is what we see with ten, but as it has often been explained in this show, the human urge to threat is to 'exterminate' it.
I think all of the show-runners have bought something different and unique to the show whether people like what they do or not. Personally, Moffat and Davies are neck and neck for me even though Moffat burned out during his final seasons in my opinion. Chibnall personally isn't for me but I can see why some people like him.
@@cuppajoe2022 It’s interesting to hear you say that because I almost feel exactly the opposite about Moffat. I never got into the rhytm and vibe of his first three series as showrunner, and even mind myself cringing a bit at the Day of the Doctor, since it leaves entire plot lines unfinished and the Zygon are made irrelevant wnen the Doctors say ‘Let’s go do something else’. The only Moffat stories I enjoyed were the 6 stories that involved the Silence (The Pandorica Opens, Impossible Astronaught, Day of the Moon, Demon’s Run, Husbands of River Song, and The Time of the Doctor). And I feel like Moffat really didn’t write great Doctor Who stories until the second half of Series 7. So it’s interesting that you mention him burning out in his last series. Im still binging and I haven’t seen Series 10 yet but I’m interested ehy you think he was better in his early storie
I'm glad it continued, as I like the 11th and 12th Doctors. But I do wish the show rested after The Husbands of River Song or Twice Upon a Time, since the show is basically going through the motions at this point. Just repeating what worked previously but in an inferior way (having a surprise Master reveal, Gallifrey destroyed, a secret incarnation of the Doctor, the Master and Cybermen teaming up, etc).
@@alfredvickers4054 I thought Series 10, especially the finale, was very well done and emotional. It maybe could have done with a rest after TUaT, as Chibnall seems to have no idea what he wants with Jodie.
@@luanagullotta6218 I wasn't fond of series 10 but liked the 2 finale episodes, until the deus ex machina ending that saved Bill so there would be no consequences. I think it would've been better if Bill died or remained a cyberman and traveled with the next Doctor (if 13 was better).
I always believed the fact that the meta-crisis Doctor is basically human also played into his decision to genocide the Daleks. It is, after all, a very human thing to do.
In many ways I wish the Dalek story had ended there. As much as I enjoyed Matt, Amy/Rory and Clara's interactions with them, it got goofy (and Capaldi's time made me tired), they were never scarier, never more classic than the Davies era. But i still think what makes Stolen Earth/Journey's End so great is the wonderful mix of humour and tragedy, especially the tragedy of Donna Noble. A character we saw as a loud and annoying Atkins diet, Eastendets, Pringle lover became the best companion of New Who, and then for the sake of saving reality, she dies. And her regeneration is back to the old Donna...with maybe a bit of mellowing. Her death is the one that breaks my heart.
They definitely lost their edge after RTD left. Loads of reasons for that, but doesn't change the fact they were no longer what they had become. RTD era dalek stories are amongst the best of all 50+ years.
I wouldn't say Donna died. In fact I actually think the Doctor was wrong when he said "but that version of Donna is dead". We as the viewers, have seen Donna lose her memory of the Doctor before, in Forest of the Dead and Turn Left. In both these episodes her character is still the Donna we know and love. While the Doctor didn't know this I believe these episodes were built up to show us, as the viewer, that even though Donna can't remember her potential as she reached it with the Doctor, it is still there. Although she may go back to not believing in herself, we know how capable she is and her character shows us that we may be much better people than we realise, in all of time and space.
Oh RTD daleks. Unmatched and never will be. I don’t blame Moffat for breaking them because the doctor finished the entire dalek arc. Nothing will ever approach RTD
The scene with all the companions reacting to the Daleks was brilliant because in those days they were actually a threat. If they tried to do that scene nowadays after Moffat watered the Daleks down to a complete non threat it would look totally ridiculous
Honestly I didn't dislike a single episode of Tennant's run. There were some episodes worse than others, but even they were carried by Tennant's performance. Best doctor imo
I feel the opposite. I think his episodes were amazing but I could always imagine another Doctor in his place. This doesn't mean 10 is bad nor is Tennant's acting inferior and there is an exception to this with episodes like Water of Mars and End of Time. But I still feel as though any other Doctor could have been there; his episodes are amazing.
@@saoirsedeltufo7436 like I said, some worse than others but I still get enjoyment from them, even if it's just from Tennant (or in love and monsters just the sheer absurdity of it)
@@saoirsedeltufo7436 Totally agree about Love and Monsters! Although that episode was pretty good right up until Absorbaloff turned up (it all plummeted downhill from there). But what is it about Fear Her that people hate so much? I found that episode really cute! Of course, it was silly, but it was a good, Doctor Who'ish kind of silliness. And we get an important piece of info about the Doctor's past - that he used to have children.
The Davies era just had this grandeose, awe inspiring magic to it that Doctor who has lost since, somewhere along the way, and will probably never have again. Series 4 felt like the perfect last season, and the specials (specifically waters of Mars) have this atmosphere of a sorrowful incoming end that no other regeneration story has had since. Makes me sad how much the bar has lowered since then
I still think that the three antecedent series are Who gold minus Clara's impossible girl arc (i really like the character and she's expertly acted by Coleman but its just too silly and revisionary for me as an idea). RTD's tenure centres around death and emotional recovery, whereas Moffat's Smith portion draws its stakes from notions abour time and predestination, whilst still being founded on strongly acted characters (admittedly not as well as RTD and I think this is evidence of Moffat's style over substancesque tendencies). I think that Moffat's initial tenure deserves to be seen as a roaring success, with notable advances in the quality of production, supporting cast, episode concepts, and overall aesthetic, even if in certain areas it doesn't reach the emotional heights.
To be fair, every random insignificant Dalek /could/ have been the one to kill their greatest enemy, they were just too busy shouting to actually get on with the job
11:59 Not only that but it also encapsulates the similarities and differences between the Doctor between old and new who/before and after the Time War as - even though the 4th Doctor refused to destroy the Daleks in Genesis - the 5th was willing to kill Davros as well as multiple incarnations killing enemies (eg: 5th and 6th straight up shooting Cybermen in Earthshock and Attack of the Cybermen).
The significance of "no more" post-50th anniversary is ASTRONOMICAL. Did I just stomp around my room for thirty seconds chanting "no more" and doing my best impression of Ms. Bad Wolf herself? Absolutely, and I regret nothing lol
Also, god bless RTD for making me the Doctor Who fan I am today, I found the Sarah Jane Adventures on Amazon Prime when I was 11 or 12 and fell in love, and when I ran out of episodes of that I naturally gravitated to the original series. It was kinda funny being introduced to Ten and Eleven that way rather than through Doctor Who itself haha
These are my favourite 3 episodes ever, from turn left to the end it's just so... Massive. Like the ending of turn left and the reveal of the daleks was PERFECT. I love it so much. Oh heck, I'm a year late oops
It's a damned bummer that Captain Jack wasn't in the Moffet era, despite having his US contracts allow for his appearance..he could have had some cheeky lines about 2 doctors..and 11 having a wife would be a great response..
What I would have loved, is for when the doctor has his hand cut off, and you can see the river Thames under him, is for the next episode of eastenders, to have it fall, even if it's just in the corner, and isn't obviously a hand, then have captin jack run over in the background, not making anything at all obvious, but if you were a fan of both shows, it would be a nice cameo.
2 of the first episodes I remember watching as a kid. I watched Sarah Jane before Dr Who so seeing her crying and shaking at the mention of the Daleks would have been quite the introduction to them for me.
If there was one thing I could change about Journey's End, it'd be to have Christopher Eccleston play the meta-crises Doctor, for all the reasons you said. Personality wise he was closer to the Ninth Doctor. I think there was even a line about how he was "shaped by war" or something like that. It'd make for a nice circle with Rose, where she ends up with the Doctor she first met. And it was the big crossover climax and Eccleston is the only major actor from the RTD era not to return. They could just say that some of the Ninth Doctor's DNA or whatever was still in the regenerating hand, so that's why he turned into Eccleston . Now, I know that there was no practical way for this to happen. After Eccleston 's fallout with the production team, there's no way he would return. He didn't even return for the 50th. But I have to imagine it at least crossed RTD's mind, and it would have been really cool to see.
Dalek sec’s end was so sad he became a more human dalek and wanted peace his final words were so bad ass and sorta stay with the daleks in series to come If you choose death and destruction, Then death and destruction will choose you
While "Victory of the Daleks" has its flaws, I do appreciate how the Daleks were brought back in season 5. I liked how the Dalek tech wouldn't recognize the newer Daleks because they were the Emperor's hybrids and they needed the Doctor to confirm their status.
The reveal of the daleks gets me every time it's amazing seeing such strong characters giving up at the sound of exterminate and when the supreme dalek enters yelling the daleks are the masters of earth was awesome the daleks have never been as dangerous and scary since
Excellent video. You've kinda brought the episode in a new light for me. I didn't realise just how deliciously twisted it was for Caan to be considered an abomination.
Something kind of weird is that the metacrisis doctor has the same exact memories as the tenth doctor If the metacrisis doctor is based off the first series 2 episode specifically, then him being able to tell Rose what he was going to say to her should not be possible There is also the metacrisis doctor being in love with Rose, we don't really see the Doctor having his passionate, personal love for rose until series 2 happened. Up to this point, the 9th doctor and rose were learning to fully understand eachother
My favourite doctor who episode ever. I just remember watching this back in 2008. It was event television. This was my infinity war. I prefer stolen earth over journey's end. Because the end seems a bit rushed. But either way it's pretty well handled. Expecially with all my things Davis had to cram in. Donna's departure is mad upsetting. This finale with the way it was built up for five years. proves that Davis is one of the best show runners. Along with philp hinchcliffe.
Brilliant video essay on RTD NuWho Dalek story arc. I agree with mostly every word about what was done to bring the story of the Dalek to a new generation. Ingenious and incredible writing and storytelling.
The other thing about Tennant starting to regenerate is that everyone already knew he was going to leave after the next year, so it didn't feel like a cheap cliffhanger that was about to get instantly resolved (though ultimately it did).
Wow, amazing analysis. I couldn't agree more with all points you made. And after rewatching the first 3 series by RTD, I see these plot lines in a much clearer way.
Absolutely brilliant series of videos on this subject. I never really connected the themes for DiM/EoD and these like that before, it really gives me a new appreciation for a story I always found kind of weak. Speaking of themes. I think the theme of the Doctor losing something each time he fights the Daleks is taken to an extreme here. Not only does he lose a regeneration but the manipulations of Dalek Caan directly lead to the biggest loss of the RTD era. Donna Noble. I'd argue that the way he lost Donna was worse than if she had died. The events of this story and the loss of Donna also put the Doctor on the path that eventually leads to the end of that incarnation. In a sense, this final meeting with the Daleks caused the Doctor to lose everything all over again.
Harbo Wholmes I’ve subbed thoroughly enjoyed your dr who and inbetweeners videos this Sunday afternoon. Made me look deeper into my favourite things. Keep up the good work 👍
@@mjudec I couldn't say, I'm still in the middle of Smith's run, been going through cycles of binging new who and then taking breaks, so I'm a relatively new fan. I just don't like it when the stakes are raised with an army appearing out of nowhere and then getting rid of said army with techno babble or a deus ex because there's no other way to resolve the threat.
@@MalzraAirwynn that's been a bit of a problem for NewWho in general and maybe comes from the (entirely understandable) change to the episode length etc. The focus is too much on building a threat then act 3 seems to be too short, and rushed. The balance is hard to strike though and fair play to RTD for doing what he could. Overall it was a great run.
@@mjudec my least favourite finale so far (I've seen up to season 5's finale) is season 3's finale because of that big deus ex machina with the Jesus doctor. The overall story and character work was awesome as always, but the deus ex machina was just unforgivable lol. RTD has a way of raising the stakes REALLY high and then pulling out a deus ex machina that settles all of the threats he had built up. That's basically every series finale in the RTD era. You get tired of it after a while lol. My favourite series finale is season 4's one, nevertheless.
Honestly I think the reason as to why this finale is so despised is because of the absurdity of the plot. Why is it absurd? Because of these details: Detail 1: "the bees disappearing" could not have possibly led the doctor to the medusa cascade because the bees could not have left a trail small enough on the wavelength to not be made untraceable as the doctor previously stated there was "no trace, not even a whisper". Detail 2: if the 27 planets were really put a second out of sync with the rest of the universe, there's no way Rose and her team could have gotten onto Earth. Detail 3: Dalek Caan's "emergency temporal shift" could not have possibly taken him into the time war because he was not "in both places at once" he was in the void for the time war, and the walls had closed so he could not have gone back on a reverse and even if he had, the void has, as the doctor said in "army of gh Detail issue 4: the arrival of Micky and Jackie coming in at the last second to rescue Sarah Jane felt too much like plot armour, like dumb luck. Detail issue 5: there's no way in hell that the Daleks and the doctor's team could have not known that the TARDIS escaped the "heart of z neutrino energy" because it visually de-materialised on the screen shown. Detail issue 5: if Martha actually had destroyed the earth the Daleks could have just taken another planet equal in mass, or made one out of others. And if that really hadn't occurred to Martha then honestly I think the writers degraded her. Detail issue 6: I find it super hard to believe that Donna managed to access those controls without any of the Daleks stopping her. Detail issue 7: So basically all of series 4 and presumably a lot of other stuff like the lever in "Doomsday" going off and parallel Pete inexplicably saving Rose at the last second was...Dalek Caan's plot armour? Honestly I think that cheapens the drama of Dr Who. It's not like in series one where Rose saved the day in the finale through love for the doctor and having "the guts to do what is right when everyone else just walks away" to absorb the time vortex. Or series 2 when the doctor saves the day by being brilliant, or series 3 when the doctor wins by having his friends believe in him. Here it feels too convenient, too much help from Dalek Caan. Too much "oh destiny has chosen you" which makes the victory over the Daleks feel dull. It makes the characters feel like they were only ever important because of circumstances rather than because of genuine chosen brilliance and skill and courage. It makes the characters feel like they never had any free will in the matter, no choice, just wibily wobbly timey wimey plot armour. "This would always have happened" eh? If flexible choice doesn't exist in Dr Who then everyone in doctor who might as well be robots not sentient, sapient beings. I get what RTD was going for: he wanted to glorify the love and courage and cleverness of the adopted family the doctor has and shame the greed and hatred of the Dalek family Davros had, in order to encourage the viewers to believe in kindness and hope. And Caan is an example of how just one monster turning into an angel destroys evil's power over you. Dalek Caan was basically Darth Vader in ROTJ. But factually speaking this series finale is wrong and the resolution to the problem honestly felt like it was the doctor being lucky and being helped rather than chosen talent and compassion.
Dalek Caan saw all the destruction the Daleks ever caused and said "No more". The War Doctor saw all the destruction the Time War caused and said "No more". Both then chose to genocide their own race for the greater good. The Doctor is a good Dalek. So...Dalek Caan is a bad Doctor?
For me, a proper way to describe the plot of "Journey's End" is that it's like if _Avengers: Infinity War_ featured all our heroes coming together so they could stand around in a room for 45 minutes while Thanos monologued, then one of them pushed a few buttons and stopped his evil plan with little to no effort. Rose is back, Martha is back with her Osterhagen key, Mickey and Jackie are back, Sarah-Jane is back, Captain Jack is back, they're all working together with a warp star to blow up the Crucible. And what happens? They all get teleported into the same room to do nothing and stand around waiting for Donna and Metacrisis 10 to save the day. Apart from the planetwide phone call, they could've technically been cut from the story with minimal impact. The plot at its most basic is that The Doctor gets shot, regenerates into his hand; Donna touches the hand, becomes the DoctorDonna, and stops the Daleks. There is zero reason for Jack, Sarah-Jane, Mickey, Jackie, Martha, any of them to be there. You could argue that we needed Rose so The Doctor had someone to run towards and get shot but that is very flimsy, especially when it was built up to over the course of the entire series. It's the handling of Rose that is the worst part for me. The thing about Rose coming back as foreshadowed throughout the early parts of the season is that I was expecting it to mean a lot, with Rose coming back to be the Doctor's companion again. But what does she do when she gets here? Not a lot apparently. There's the big scene on Bad Wolf Bay at the end and the cute little moment at the beginning where Rose is all like "Dimension cannon so I could... come back" but it's genuinely fascinating to me how little Rose and the Time Lord Tenth Doctor talk to one another in the big "Rose is back" story. Why was her return built up over the course of the season, if she was barely going to do anything when she did finally come back, and it wasn't going to culminate in her resuming travel with the Tenth Doctor? What would've made the episode better, and make Rose's return actually mean something, is if the Doctor never got shot by the Dalek and caused the whole Metacrisis situation. Like, either the Doctor was a bit slower and/or Jack showed up a few seconds earlier to shoot the Dalek first. If not that, have Rose reunite with the Doctor much earlier in the season, maybe after "Midnight" and before "The Stolen Earth," or, if "Turn Left" still has to happen, have Rose reunite with the Doctor at the start of "The Stolen Earth" before the Earth is even taken. Then, when they're taken to the Crucible, it's Rose (and not Donna) who stays in the TARDIS while everyone else exits, and she joins forces with the TARDIS once again as Bad Wolf. The TARDIS strongly foreshadowed her return in "Turn Left" so it's clear the two were still very much linked, plus it would've made those lingering Bad Wolf references in series 2 actually have some meaning. So the Daleks would be defeated as is Davros, but Rose continues traveling with the Doctor. A side effect of this would Donna would get to keep her memories. Which is another big beef I have with this episode, so I'm including it here. Donna's lack of confidence is barely addressed until "Journey's End", and then in the same episode that it's resolved, all her development is wiped out. I sort of understand why RTD wrote her ending the way he did. It's certainly tragic, trapping her back in the life she hated, and from a meta standpoint, I can understand the technical logistics behind the scenes like actor contracts and whatnot (Billie Piper likely wouldn't have signed up for further seasons, and Catherine Tate likely wouldn't want to stick around for another season while David Tennant was on his way out although he'd offered to stay around for an additional season). But I also feel that there must have been a way to do that without losing all of her character development. They could have her suffer a physical injury that makes TARDIS travel impossible. Something the Doctor can't solve. Then she's still trapped on Earth, but she gets to keep all the growth she went through.
Realistically, the Tenth Doctor's response to the Meta Crisis's actions at Journey's End was flawed. Letting the Daleks live wasn't an option. They were a brand new Dalek fleet, at their full strength. They would've spread out across the entire universe and destroyed it.
The scene in The Stolen Earth when the Daleks are first heard, is possibly the best ever scene - because of the sound of the Daleks, the music and Sarah and Jack's reactions. What I've been wondering for a while is, if this is a fitting end to the Daleks (similar to Evil of the Daleks ?), how were they going to continue in Doctor Who? So either, there are more still, or some survive or escape the Doctor, as in Victory of the Daleks, but there is a different writer now. RTD Daleks all survived or escaped the Time War, which adds to their relationship with the Doctor. I love how the Emperor's Daleks recoil when the Doctor shouts at them, and the Cult of Skaro when Rose just identifies the Doctor.
That... was a brilliant analysis. I especially liked the part about why the metacrisis Doctor committed genocide. It was more than just "he's newborn and has no control, " it gave specific reasons that meshed with the timeline perfectly. Bravo.
The Moffat and most certainly the Chibnall era, have never made me fear the Daleks as much as RTD did. From the first episode Dalek, to Journey's End they felt formidable. Powerful. Truly feared. Not pepper-shaker power rangers.
I think your analysis about the meta crisis doctor being a hybrid of 9 and 10 due to when the hand cut off is wrong. He has memories of Donna and what 10 said to Rose at the end of series 2 on the beach. How can he if he’s a frozen state of 10?
I believe one of the reasons was: "We have to use it or lose it." What I'm saying is, the BBC do not own the Daleks, the estate of Terry Nation does, and the contract stipulates that they have to use them every year or they have to pay up, although they do find ways of getting around that, like having one in a trailer or in the background of a scene.
The DoctorDonna and the playstation Dalek console were huge problems with this episode. You're right about almost everything, but Journey's End really fell down when Donna turned all time lord. I know it was heavily foreshadowed and I know she became his "price" but still, that twirly dalek scene was everything RTD had until then successfully taken the daleks away from.
Still one of my favorite two parters as it not only reunites the Tenth Doctor with his companions, but Russell teams the show up it with its two most succesful spin-offs: Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood, making the family drama, kids drama and adult drama become one epic battle for survival...And finally Gwen gets to meet the Doctor, sort of, after all the times Jack has talked about him.
11:30 although this is a thematic link the answer is not so complicated, the answer given is that the meta crisis Doctor is part human which compounds apon the already human nature of 10 to make him more emotional and aggressive.
11:05 would've thought that it's because the meta-crisis doctor is half human, therefore he acts upon human impulses instead of those of the doctor, such as decimating all of the daleks
28th June 2008 , i remember watching stolen earth on a wide screen TV in my bedroom and seeing the doctor run to rose, being shot by the dalek and i never forgot that to be continued
I would love a Dalek-Cyberman hybrid group in Doctor Who story. Heck they could of been created from the Cybermen and Daleks that were sucked back into the void. Maybe a instead of them wiping each other out a fringe group combined and with their joined strength were able to rise to dominance either converting the others or destroying them. Then they found a way to make it back to real space and cause mayhem. That would be an awesome story.
Yeah it was bad Meta-Crisis Doctor killed all the daleks (well, the pure Davrosian Daleks) but like.... they would’ve slaughtered the universe. Tenth is like “how could you that’s evil” when the Daleks absolutely 110% would’ve gone on a killing spree after their Reality Bomb plan got smashed. He had no choice if he wanted to preserve the lives of billions still within the Medusa Cascade and the trillions upon trillions safely in the rest of the universe. Genocide is bad but Meta-Crisis Doctor was kinda backed into a wall. Either he did what he did, or let a massive army of genocidal squids in tanks rip the universe a new one
Interesting theory regarding the Metacrisis Doctor being in a S1 state of mind due to his hand being cut off during the Christmas Invasion, but does this not contradict the Bad Wolf Bay sequence towards the end? When Rose talks to both of them about their chat at the end of Doomsday and asks them how the sentence “Rose Tyler…” was gonna end, how come the Metacrisis knew what Ten would have said, if he is basically a version of the Doctor for whom Parting of the Ways is “still fresh” in his memory? Wouldn’t that be information he has no access to? Can’t imagine he would have gotten that information from Donna either.
i mean anouther point to say, the meta crisis doctor was right to kill all the daleks, yes the reality bomb was deactivated but there was still a new dalek empire, one that was capable of stealing whole planets, that would be the greatest threat to the universe
I would be extremely interested in a video about what went wrong with the Daleks since RTD's run. Especially since this series has been so good so far!
During the 4/19 tweetalong of The Stolen Earth and Journey’s End RTD revealed that he had originally planned much more for the Meta-Crisis Doctor, explaining that the original story had him raising an entire army to defeat the Daleks and overall being more destructive. It’s a real shame we didn’t get to see this because it would have given more reasoning to the Doctor’ anger at his Meta-Crisis and would have prevented critics from dismissing the Meta-Crisis as just a fan-service for Rose and the Doctor’s love story.
First time seeing the Dalek: Oh wow that’s such an interesting and cool species. Scary, psychological, chilling, but interesting and complex and empathetic. Second time: these are the most frightening Who species. Just the sight shakes me to my core. A heaving fear grows from the depths of my gut whenever they’re on screen. Third time: they’re less scary but still good and give me a bit of the willies. Fourth time: oh for fuck sake not these guys again! They’re laughable at this point! Plunger wielding garbage bin head ass. . Fifth time: OK THATS JUST RIDICULOUS
It was the greatest finale in Sci fi TV history , EPIC in the right way and noting has even come close since , the only other TV season finale that was close to it was Stargate SG1 season finale Lost City 1 & 2. And the music was the best I’ve ever herd in. Sci fi show , and the music was MORE EPIC that anything I’ve ever herd in movies.
11:30 plus, the meta-crisis doctor is affected by human DNA, since Donna touched the hand. Thus, the meta-doctor isn't even a timelord, not to mention a "real" doctor, but a hybrid between Timelord and Human (maybe that's an easteregg to the 1996 film, where the eight Doctor stated to be half human). Humans are more revengefull than the doctor, so I think that's the main reason why the meta-doctor blew up the daleks.
"I saw the truth of us creator an I decreed NO MORE."
After the 50th special, these words become very important.
Yes it did, glad I'm not the only one to think that
I reckon that was on purpose
@@seandabest4329 Rusty: you ARE a good Dalek!
I will descend...to The Vault.
Coincidentally I was the 50th like
Between this, Waters of Mars and Tennant's farewell episodes was the greatest time in the revival for me.
121 likes and I’m the first reply?
@@Autistic_Squirrel What you gonna comment anyway, its straight up facts!
Dan Zorny I don't know. This is TH-cam, people usually reply no matter what.
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It always gets me to Sarah Jane hugging her son and crying saying “he was so young” she’s already accepted that they are all going to die and her son may as well already be dead
Sad shit
I think you missed the connection between Sarah Jane & Davros, the fact she was there at the very beginning of Davros creating the Daleks & is then there to what he thinks will be the end of the universe as they know it was a great touch. I really think Sarah Jane's importance is underrated & overlooked in these episodes
Consider the way the Meta Crisis Doctor dresses. He wears a suit, just like 10, but without the trademark pinstripes we (usually) see. 10 always has a plain formal shirt, and often a tie, under his blazer. What does Meta Crisis have? A t-shirt, like 9 did.
Part of me wonders if at some point there were plans to have the Meta Crisis Doctor have the appearance of 9, which would have been so cool and interesting to see play out since Meta is essentially the 9th Doctor anyway. Obviously, considering the bitterness Eccleston has for Davies this never happened, but one can dream
10 doesn't wear a blazer, but the coat of a 2-piece suit.
Catherine Tate broke my heart in that Episode.
UGH I miss donna so much :( my heart broke for her as well
I still believe she has the most tragic of endings of NuWho companions.
@@user-is7xs1mr9y 100%. what they did to her was stunning writing and storytelling but I still wish it had never happened
Series 4 is the best series of Doctor Who, no questions asked, and this 3 part finale "Turn Left", "The Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" is the best story from Doctor Who in it's entirety. I will always adore this story because I feel that it is as close to a perfect Doctor Who Story that we will ever get.
And Yes, I definitely think that the cliffhanger at the end of The Stolen Earth is the greatest cliffhanger in all of Doctor Who.
if you mean new who, I can accept your comment, over its entire 50 odd year history, sorry not even close, but yes, I loved this story!
julie everett I can even say of its 50 year history. The classics are held in high regard because they’re the ‘originals’. But at the end of the day they’re inferior in every way to new who. At least New who series 1-6 anyway
@@obiwankenobi687 I wouldn't say in every way, there's some truly great stories in the classic era, just not nearly as good as ones like this.
@@obiwankenobi687 both new who and classic who have their strengths. Personally I prefer the 4 part+ format and even the actors who play the Doctor are better on average for me in classic who (12 is still my personal favourite tho). And classic who has some amazing stories and some of which are among my favorites. So basically i completely disagree with you.
@@sirsplendid4769 I do really wish new-who could have at least one or two seasons with a 4 part+ format. Given how popular the 50th Anniversary was I'm surprised we don't see more long-form Dr Who stuff. I think overall the new-who Doctors have been more consistently brilliant, but I think the writing has shown a similar decline to classic who albeit over a much shorter period of time.
You call it Doctor Who’s Infinity War but since this came way earlier wouldn’t it be more like Marvel’s Journeys End?
I prefer Doctor Who's Crisis on Infinite Earths. You know, cuz the entire multiverse was at stake
@LittleRedRhuari RRR OK, when you say "hap hazarded," do you refer to the comic or the TV special? Cuz I'm pretty sure they built up to it on TV since 2018 at least.
Rustymcnut why can't we like 500 times?
Daldi I actually hate the reality bomb. It makes no sense. If there are infinite universes then sure the bomb would’ve gone off in at least one of them and then the entire multiverse would be destroyed. Reality bomb’s stupid. Should’ve just destroyed the one universe
lughreviews true post
Honestly Sarah Janes reaction to the Daleks returning makes me choke up every time. So authentic.
Another reason the meta-crisis resorted to genocide is precisely because he was meta-crisis, meaning he was part human. The time lord part is what we see with ten, but as it has often been explained in this show, the human urge to threat is to 'exterminate' it.
And this all sums up why RTD was the best show runner.
I think all of the show-runners have bought something different and unique to the show whether people like what they do or not. Personally, Moffat and Davies are neck and neck for me even though Moffat burned out during his final seasons in my opinion. Chibnall personally isn't for me but I can see why some people like him.
@@cuppajoe2022 It’s interesting to hear you say that because I almost feel exactly the opposite about Moffat. I never got into the rhytm and vibe of his first three series as showrunner, and even mind myself cringing a bit at the Day of the Doctor, since it leaves entire plot lines unfinished and the Zygon are made irrelevant wnen the Doctors say ‘Let’s go do something else’.
The only Moffat stories I enjoyed were the 6 stories that involved the Silence (The Pandorica Opens, Impossible Astronaught, Day of the Moon, Demon’s Run, Husbands of River Song, and The Time of the Doctor). And I feel like Moffat really didn’t write great Doctor Who stories until the second half of Series 7. So it’s interesting that you mention him burning out in his last series.
Im still binging and I haven’t seen Series 10 yet but I’m interested ehy you think he was better in his early storie
Honestly, The Stolen Earth / Journey's End story is where the entirety of Doctor Who could have ended.
I'm glad it continued, as I like the 11th and 12th Doctors. But I do wish the show rested after The Husbands of River Song or Twice Upon a Time, since the show is basically going through the motions at this point. Just repeating what worked previously but in an inferior way (having a surprise Master reveal, Gallifrey destroyed, a secret incarnation of the Doctor, the Master and Cybermen teaming up, etc).
it could, but it wasnt ready to end yet!
@@alfredvickers4054 I thought Series 10, especially the finale, was very well done and emotional. It maybe could have done with a rest after TUaT, as Chibnall seems to have no idea what he wants with Jodie.
@@luanagullotta6218 I wasn't fond of series 10 but liked the 2 finale episodes, until the deus ex machina ending that saved Bill so there would be no consequences. I think it would've been better if Bill died or remained a cyberman and traveled with the next Doctor (if 13 was better).
@@alfredvickers4054 For me the Doctor falls was a perfect ending. Have the Doctor say I hoped there'd be stars and cut if off there, perfect ending.
I always believed the fact that the meta-crisis Doctor is basically human also played into his decision to genocide the Daleks. It is, after all, a very human thing to do.
In many ways I wish the Dalek story had ended there. As much as I enjoyed Matt, Amy/Rory and Clara's interactions with them, it got goofy (and Capaldi's time made me tired), they were never scarier, never more classic than the Davies era.
But i still think what makes Stolen Earth/Journey's End so great is the wonderful mix of humour and tragedy, especially the tragedy of Donna Noble. A character we saw as a loud and annoying Atkins diet, Eastendets, Pringle lover became the best companion of New Who, and then for the sake of saving reality, she dies. And her regeneration is back to the old Donna...with maybe a bit of mellowing. Her death is the one that breaks my heart.
They definitely lost their edge after RTD left. Loads of reasons for that, but doesn't change the fact they were no longer what they had become. RTD era dalek stories are amongst the best of all 50+ years.
I wouldn't say Donna died. In fact I actually think the Doctor was wrong when he said "but that version of Donna is dead". We as the viewers, have seen Donna lose her memory of the Doctor before, in Forest of the Dead and Turn Left. In both these episodes her character is still the Donna we know and love. While the Doctor didn't know this I believe these episodes were built up to show us, as the viewer, that even though Donna can't remember her potential as she reached it with the Doctor, it is still there. Although she may go back to not believing in herself, we know how capable she is and her character shows us that we may be much better people than we realise, in all of time and space.
@@plutoreturns9630 tbh considering the amount of alien invasions since 2010 Donna probably is dead by now
Just posted the same, donna character arc is the saddest to me. Amy/Roy broke my heart but Donna crushed it to dust, best character in all new era
Oh RTD daleks. Unmatched and never will be. I don’t blame Moffat for breaking them because the doctor finished the entire dalek arc. Nothing will ever approach RTD
I just realized that RTD was responsible for me falling in love with DW as a child. Goddamn.
Brackens ftw
For the effort put into this you deserve way more subscribers
Thank you so much! I don't really do it for the subscribers, I just want to get my ideas out there :)
Sarah Jane was there in Genesis of the Daleks and has met Davros before, and Capt. Jack's only death was from a Dalek. Both of them would be scared.
this series has been so insightful and has made me love my favourite doctor who era even more!
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it ☺️
We may never get another episode like this. It saddens me
we wont buddy... unfortunately
Lighten up boys! Anything can happen
@@grahamburdick, knowing Chibby and what he's done so far, never again.
Dominic Keijzer 😍🌈☀️✨
The scene with all the companions reacting to the Daleks was brilliant because in those days they were actually a threat. If they tried to do that scene nowadays after Moffat watered the Daleks down to a complete non threat it would look totally ridiculous
Honestly I didn't dislike a single episode of Tennant's run. There were some episodes worse than others, but even they were carried by Tennant's performance. Best doctor imo
I feel the opposite. I think his episodes were amazing but I could always imagine another Doctor in his place. This doesn't mean 10 is bad nor is Tennant's acting inferior and there is an exception to this with episodes like Water of Mars and End of Time. But I still feel as though any other Doctor could have been there; his episodes are amazing.
Love and Monsters? Fear Her?
@@saoirsedeltufo7436 like I said, some worse than others but I still get enjoyment from them, even if it's just from Tennant (or in love and monsters just the sheer absurdity of it)
@@KingLamink Fair, each to their own. I love RTD's writing and Tennant's run but those two I can't even sit through ironically...
@@saoirsedeltufo7436 Totally agree about Love and Monsters! Although that episode was pretty good right up until Absorbaloff turned up (it all plummeted downhill from there).
But what is it about Fear Her that people hate so much? I found that episode really cute! Of course, it was silly, but it was a good, Doctor Who'ish kind of silliness. And we get an important piece of info about the Doctor's past - that he used to have children.
The Davies era just had this grandeose, awe inspiring magic to it that Doctor who has lost since, somewhere along the way, and will probably never have again. Series 4 felt like the perfect last season, and the specials (specifically waters of Mars) have this atmosphere of a sorrowful incoming end that no other regeneration story has had since. Makes me sad how much the bar has lowered since then
I still think that the three antecedent series are Who gold minus Clara's impossible girl arc (i really like the character and she's expertly acted by Coleman but its just too silly and revisionary for me as an idea). RTD's tenure centres around death and emotional recovery, whereas Moffat's Smith portion draws its stakes from notions abour time and predestination, whilst still being founded on strongly acted characters (admittedly not as well as RTD and I think this is evidence of Moffat's style over substancesque tendencies). I think that Moffat's initial tenure deserves to be seen as a roaring success, with notable advances in the quality of production, supporting cast, episode concepts, and overall aesthetic, even if in certain areas it doesn't reach the emotional heights.
To be fair, every random insignificant Dalek /could/ have been the one to kill their greatest enemy, they were just too busy shouting to actually get on with the job
Dalek Caan is honestly the stand-out character for me.
I don't know why, but I adore him.
This story was truly a phenomenon.
So many people where talking about it. Quite incredible
I appreciate very much, as a composer myself, your appreciation and mentioning of Murray's score, dude. Well done.
11:59 Not only that but it also encapsulates the similarities and differences between the Doctor between old and new who/before and after the Time War as - even though the 4th Doctor refused to destroy the Daleks in Genesis - the 5th was willing to kill Davros as well as multiple incarnations killing enemies (eg: 5th and 6th straight up shooting Cybermen in Earthshock and Attack of the Cybermen).
The problem with all these send-offs is that they always come back.
And deaths don’t really mean anything. I mean look at Rory.. even he made jokes about himself dying over and over and over and coming back
Like Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, then Generations bringing back Kirk then rather unceremoniously killing him off.
The significance of "no more" post-50th anniversary is ASTRONOMICAL. Did I just stomp around my room for thirty seconds chanting "no more" and doing my best impression of Ms. Bad Wolf herself? Absolutely, and I regret nothing lol
Also, god bless RTD for making me the Doctor Who fan I am today, I found the Sarah Jane Adventures on Amazon Prime when I was 11 or 12 and fell in love, and when I ran out of episodes of that I naturally gravitated to the original series. It was kinda funny being introduced to Ten and Eleven that way rather than through Doctor Who itself haha
These are my favourite 3 episodes ever, from turn left to the end it's just so... Massive.
Like the ending of turn left and the reveal of the daleks was PERFECT. I love it so much.
Oh heck, I'm a year late oops
Turn left is the best, a world without a doctor
It's a damned bummer that Captain Jack wasn't in the Moffet era, despite having his US contracts allow for his appearance..he could have had some cheeky lines about 2 doctors..and 11 having a wife would be a great response..
River and Jack would have been a what I can only describe as “sexually chaotic.”
Especially in the episode with the gangers... Jack's mind would be in the gutter lol
The ‘time vortex manipulator straight off a handsome young time agent’s wrist” was meant to be jack
I always thought it was a three parter because of the end of turn left
This was good, should be viewed more.
What I would have loved, is for when the doctor has his hand cut off, and you can see the river Thames under him, is for the next episode of eastenders, to have it fall, even if it's just in the corner, and isn't obviously a hand, then have captin jack run over in the background, not making anything at all obvious, but if you were a fan of both shows, it would be a nice cameo.
2 of the first episodes I remember watching as a kid. I watched Sarah Jane before Dr Who so seeing her crying and shaking at the mention of the Daleks would have been quite the introduction to them for me.
"Executive Producer Julie Gardner" *shows Head of Fiction Jane Tranter*
If there was one thing I could change about Journey's End, it'd be to have Christopher Eccleston
play the meta-crises Doctor, for all the reasons you said. Personality wise he was closer to the Ninth Doctor. I think there was even a line about how he was "shaped by war" or something like that. It'd make for a nice circle with Rose, where she ends up with the Doctor she first met. And it was the big crossover climax and Eccleston
is the only major actor from the RTD era not to return. They could just say that some of the Ninth Doctor's DNA or whatever was still in the regenerating hand, so that's why he turned into Eccleston
.
Now, I know that there was no practical way for this to happen. After Eccleston
's fallout with the production team, there's no way he would return. He didn't even return for the 50th. But I have to imagine it at least crossed RTD's mind, and it would have been really cool to see.
Dalek sec’s end was so sad he became a more human dalek and wanted peace his final words were so bad ass and sorta stay with the daleks in series to come
If you choose death and destruction, Then death and destruction will choose you
My fave era, my fave finale, ma fave scenes, my doctor and my fave companions 💙
It’s a bit weird how if you think about it. The entire multiverse would die if the plastic thing from the episode rose never can to earth
Great job, sad I just found your channel your level of professionalism demands more subscribers. I hope you get more spotlight in the future
Thank you so so much! It's just a hobby that I do when I can so every subscriber means the world to me. I'm glad you enjoy my videos :)
While "Victory of the Daleks" has its flaws, I do appreciate how the Daleks were brought back in season 5. I liked how the Dalek tech wouldn't recognize the newer Daleks because they were the Emperor's hybrids and they needed the Doctor to confirm their status.
The reveal of the daleks gets me every time it's amazing seeing such strong characters giving up at the sound of exterminate and when the supreme dalek enters yelling the daleks are the masters of earth was awesome the daleks have never been as dangerous and scary since
Excellent video. You've kinda brought the episode in a new light for me. I didn't realise just how deliciously twisted it was for Caan to be considered an abomination.
6:53 "No More"
Something kind of weird is that the metacrisis doctor has the same exact memories as the tenth doctor
If the metacrisis doctor is based off the first series 2 episode specifically, then him being able to tell Rose what he was going to say to her should not be possible
There is also the metacrisis doctor being in love with Rose, we don't really see the Doctor having his passionate, personal love for rose until series 2 happened. Up to this point, the 9th doctor and rose were learning to fully understand eachother
My favourite doctor who episode ever. I just remember watching this back in 2008. It was event television. This was my infinity war. I prefer stolen earth over journey's end. Because the end seems a bit rushed. But either way it's pretty well handled. Expecially with all my things Davis had to cram in. Donna's departure is mad upsetting. This finale with the way it was built up for five years. proves that Davis is one of the best show runners. Along with philp hinchcliffe.
10:55 HOLY SHIT... dude there’s layers to this. incredible analysis 💗
Brilliant video essay on RTD NuWho Dalek story arc. I agree with mostly every word about what was done to bring the story of the Dalek to a new generation. Ingenious and incredible writing and storytelling.
The other thing about Tennant starting to regenerate is that everyone already knew he was going to leave after the next year, so it didn't feel like a cheap cliffhanger that was about to get instantly resolved (though ultimately it did).
Invisible Tower well we didn’t but ok.
@@intergalactic92 well, we did lol I remember it vividly 😂
Wow, amazing analysis. I couldn't agree more with all points you made. And after rewatching the first 3 series by RTD, I see these plot lines in a much clearer way.
Absolutely brilliant series of videos on this subject. I never really connected the themes for DiM/EoD and these like that before, it really gives me a new appreciation for a story I always found kind of weak.
Speaking of themes. I think the theme of the Doctor losing something each time he fights the Daleks is taken to an extreme here. Not only does he lose a regeneration but the manipulations of Dalek Caan directly lead to the biggest loss of the RTD era. Donna Noble. I'd argue that the way he lost Donna was worse than if she had died. The events of this story and the loss of Donna also put the Doctor on the path that eventually leads to the end of that incarnation. In a sense, this final meeting with the Daleks caused the Doctor to lose everything all over again.
It was a amazing finale, Russel T Davies was one of the best showrunners for Doctor Who!
Then there’s victory of the daleks 🙄
Yeah... let's not talk about that one...
Harbo Wholmes I’ve subbed thoroughly enjoyed your dr who and inbetweeners videos this Sunday afternoon. Made me look deeper into my favourite things. Keep up the good work 👍
@@Robert10075 thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed my videos :)
@Jack The Film Fanatic That broke my heart in more ways than one
Asylum of the Daleks was faaaaar worse than Victory. The only bad thing about Victory is the Power Ranger Daleks.
It was a good episode, but by this point I was just done with armies of daleks popping out of nowhere only to suddenly get wiped out at the end.
Yeah, it's definitely better now than it was then. Is this because we've lost dalek fatigue, or is it because the quality has fallen since?
@@mjudec I couldn't say, I'm still in the middle of Smith's run, been going through cycles of binging new who and then taking breaks, so I'm a relatively new fan. I just don't like it when the stakes are raised with an army appearing out of nowhere and then getting rid of said army with techno babble or a deus ex because there's no other way to resolve the threat.
@@MalzraAirwynn that's been a bit of a problem for NewWho in general and maybe comes from the (entirely understandable) change to the episode length etc. The focus is too much on building a threat then act 3 seems to be too short, and rushed. The balance is hard to strike though and fair play to RTD for doing what he could. Overall it was a great run.
@@mjudec my least favourite finale so far (I've seen up to season 5's finale) is season 3's finale because of that big deus ex machina with the Jesus doctor. The overall story and character work was awesome as always, but the deus ex machina was just unforgivable lol.
RTD has a way of raising the stakes REALLY high and then pulling out a deus ex machina that settles all of the threats he had built up. That's basically every series finale in the RTD era. You get tired of it after a while lol.
My favourite series finale is season 4's one, nevertheless.
Honestly I think the reason as to why this finale is so despised is because of the absurdity of the plot.
Why is it absurd? Because of these details:
Detail 1: "the bees disappearing" could not have possibly led the doctor to the medusa cascade because the bees could not have left a trail small enough on the wavelength to not be made untraceable as the doctor previously stated there was "no trace, not even a whisper".
Detail 2: if the 27 planets were really put a second out of sync with the rest of the universe, there's no way Rose and her team could have gotten onto Earth.
Detail 3: Dalek Caan's "emergency temporal shift" could not have possibly taken him into the time war because he was not "in both places at once" he was in the void for the time war, and the walls had closed so he could not have gone back on a reverse and even if he had, the void has, as the doctor said in "army of gh
Detail issue 4: the arrival of Micky and Jackie coming in at the last second to rescue Sarah Jane felt too much like plot armour, like dumb luck.
Detail issue 5: there's no way in hell that the Daleks and the doctor's team could have not known that the TARDIS escaped the "heart of z neutrino energy" because it visually de-materialised on the screen shown.
Detail issue 5: if Martha actually had destroyed the earth the Daleks could have just taken another planet equal in mass, or made one out of others. And if that really hadn't occurred to Martha then honestly I think the writers degraded her.
Detail issue 6: I find it super hard to believe that Donna managed to access those controls without any of the Daleks stopping her.
Detail issue 7: So basically all of series 4 and presumably a lot of other stuff like the lever in "Doomsday" going off and parallel Pete inexplicably saving Rose at the last second was...Dalek Caan's plot armour? Honestly I think that cheapens the drama of Dr Who. It's not like in series one where Rose saved the day in the finale through love for the doctor and having "the guts to do what is right when everyone else just walks away" to absorb the time vortex. Or series 2 when the doctor saves the day by being brilliant, or series 3 when the doctor wins by having his friends believe in him. Here it feels too convenient, too much help from Dalek Caan. Too much "oh destiny has chosen you" which makes the victory over the Daleks feel dull. It makes the characters feel like they were only ever important because of circumstances rather than because of genuine chosen brilliance and skill and courage. It makes the characters feel like they never had any free will in the matter, no choice, just wibily wobbly timey wimey plot armour. "This would always have happened" eh? If flexible choice doesn't exist in Dr Who then everyone in doctor who might as well be robots not sentient, sapient beings.
I get what RTD was going for: he wanted to glorify the love and courage and cleverness of the adopted family the doctor has and shame the greed and hatred of the Dalek family Davros had, in order to encourage the viewers to believe in kindness and hope. And Caan is an example of how just one monster turning into an angel destroys evil's power over you. Dalek Caan was basically Darth Vader in ROTJ.
But factually speaking this series finale is wrong and the resolution to the problem honestly felt like it was the doctor being lucky and being helped rather than chosen talent and compassion.
I rewatch series 4 three times as much as I do any other.
Dalek Caan saw all the destruction the Daleks ever caused and said "No more". The War Doctor saw all the destruction the Time War caused and said "No more". Both then chose to genocide their own race for the greater good.
The Doctor is a good Dalek.
So...Dalek Caan is a bad Doctor?
bloody hell how has this got less than 10k views?? great stuff, consider me subscribed
For me, a proper way to describe the plot of "Journey's End" is that it's like if _Avengers: Infinity War_ featured all our heroes coming together so they could stand around in a room for 45 minutes while Thanos monologued, then one of them pushed a few buttons and stopped his evil plan with little to no effort. Rose is back, Martha is back with her Osterhagen key, Mickey and Jackie are back, Sarah-Jane is back, Captain Jack is back, they're all working together with a warp star to blow up the Crucible. And what happens? They all get teleported into the same room to do nothing and stand around waiting for Donna and Metacrisis 10 to save the day. Apart from the planetwide phone call, they could've technically been cut from the story with minimal impact. The plot at its most basic is that The Doctor gets shot, regenerates into his hand; Donna touches the hand, becomes the DoctorDonna, and stops the Daleks. There is zero reason for Jack, Sarah-Jane, Mickey, Jackie, Martha, any of them to be there. You could argue that we needed Rose so The Doctor had someone to run towards and get shot but that is very flimsy, especially when it was built up to over the course of the entire series.
It's the handling of Rose that is the worst part for me. The thing about Rose coming back as foreshadowed throughout the early parts of the season is that I was expecting it to mean a lot, with Rose coming back to be the Doctor's companion again. But what does she do when she gets here? Not a lot apparently. There's the big scene on Bad Wolf Bay at the end and the cute little moment at the beginning where Rose is all like "Dimension cannon so I could... come back" but it's genuinely fascinating to me how little Rose and the Time Lord Tenth Doctor talk to one another in the big "Rose is back" story. Why was her return built up over the course of the season, if she was barely going to do anything when she did finally come back, and it wasn't going to culminate in her resuming travel with the Tenth Doctor?
What would've made the episode better, and make Rose's return actually mean something, is if the Doctor never got shot by the Dalek and caused the whole Metacrisis situation. Like, either the Doctor was a bit slower and/or Jack showed up a few seconds earlier to shoot the Dalek first.
If not that, have Rose reunite with the Doctor much earlier in the season, maybe after "Midnight" and before "The Stolen Earth," or, if "Turn Left" still has to happen, have Rose reunite with the Doctor at the start of "The Stolen Earth" before the Earth is even taken. Then, when they're taken to the Crucible, it's Rose (and not Donna) who stays in the TARDIS while everyone else exits, and she joins forces with the TARDIS once again as Bad Wolf. The TARDIS strongly foreshadowed her return in "Turn Left" so it's clear the two were still very much linked, plus it would've made those lingering Bad Wolf references in series 2 actually have some meaning. So the Daleks would be defeated as is Davros, but Rose continues traveling with the Doctor.
A side effect of this would Donna would get to keep her memories. Which is another big beef I have with this episode, so I'm including it here. Donna's lack of confidence is barely addressed until "Journey's End", and then in the same episode that it's resolved, all her development is wiped out. I sort of understand why RTD wrote her ending the way he did. It's certainly tragic, trapping her back in the life she hated, and from a meta standpoint, I can understand the technical logistics behind the scenes like actor contracts and whatnot (Billie Piper likely wouldn't have signed up for further seasons, and Catherine Tate likely wouldn't want to stick around for another season while David Tennant was on his way out although he'd offered to stay around for an additional season). But I also feel that there must have been a way to do that without losing all of her character development. They could have her suffer a physical injury that makes TARDIS travel impossible. Something the Doctor can't solve. Then she's still trapped on Earth, but she gets to keep all the growth she went through.
What a brilliant web series this was, deserves to be included as an extra in a future official 10th Doctor Blu-ray release, my hat's off to you Harbo.
Realistically, the Tenth Doctor's response to the Meta Crisis's actions at Journey's End was flawed.
Letting the Daleks live wasn't an option. They were a brand new Dalek fleet, at their full strength.
They would've spread out across the entire universe and destroyed it.
The scene in The Stolen Earth when the Daleks are first heard, is possibly the best ever scene - because of the sound of the Daleks, the music and Sarah and Jack's reactions.
What I've been wondering for a while is, if this is a fitting end to the Daleks (similar to Evil of the Daleks ?), how were they going to continue in Doctor Who? So either, there are more still, or some survive or escape the Doctor, as in Victory of the Daleks, but there is a different writer now.
RTD Daleks all survived or escaped the Time War, which adds to their relationship with the Doctor. I love how the Emperor's Daleks recoil when the Doctor shouts at them, and the Cult of Skaro when Rose just identifies the Doctor.
👏👏👏 ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC SERIES OF VIDEOS ESSAYS! Reminded me how great RTD was and IS.
That... was a brilliant analysis. I especially liked the part about why the metacrisis Doctor committed genocide. It was more than just "he's newborn and has no control, " it gave specific reasons that meshed with the timeline perfectly. Bravo.
The Moffat and most certainly the Chibnall era, have never made me fear the Daleks as much as RTD did. From the first episode Dalek, to Journey's End they felt formidable. Powerful. Truly feared. Not pepper-shaker power rangers.
I think your analysis about the meta crisis doctor being a hybrid of 9 and 10 due to when the hand cut off is wrong. He has memories of Donna and what 10 said to Rose at the end of series 2 on the beach. How can he if he’s a frozen state of 10?
At 0:15 that's not Julie Gardner btw
Love the comparrison between anakin and the meta crisis
Awww I miss the rtd episodes and the characters..
The Whoniverse did a crossover of epic proportions before Marvel on screen. Everything came together for this absolute epic.
I believe one of the reasons was: "We have to use it or lose it." What I'm saying is, the BBC do not own the Daleks, the estate of Terry Nation does, and the contract stipulates that they have to use them every year or they have to pay up, although they do find ways of getting around that, like having one in a trailer or in the background of a scene.
The DoctorDonna and the playstation Dalek console were huge problems with this episode. You're right about almost everything, but Journey's End really fell down when Donna turned all time lord. I know it was heavily foreshadowed and I know she became his "price" but still, that twirly dalek scene was everything RTD had until then successfully taken the daleks away from.
Still one of my favorite two parters as it not only reunites the Tenth Doctor with his companions, but Russell teams the show up it with its two most succesful spin-offs: Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood, making the family drama, kids drama and adult drama become one epic battle for survival...And finally Gwen gets to meet the Doctor, sort of, after all the times Jack has talked about him.
11:30 although this is a thematic link the answer is not so complicated, the answer given is that the meta crisis Doctor is part human which compounds apon the already human nature of 10 to make him more emotional and aggressive.
11:05 would've thought that it's because the meta-crisis doctor is half human, therefore he acts upon human impulses instead of those of the doctor, such as decimating all of the daleks
Not Like it's an Easy choice for the Doctor normally either, and the Doctor managed to bring himself to do it in the TimeWar
I loved the video, but I'm glad you don't do the text-on-screen as often now, it was a bit much. I'm amazed at how far you've come, you're the best!
What I would give to have Russel T Davies helm the show again and Capaldi as the doctor still
Sean Fowler capaldi did the darker Doctor like Eccleston , he would have been amazing under RTD
This is the best two-parter and best story of Nu-Hu (I haven't watched classic who)
28th June 2008
, i remember watching stolen earth on a wide screen TV in my bedroom and seeing the doctor run to rose, being shot by the dalek and i never forgot that to be continued
I would love a Dalek-Cyberman hybrid group in Doctor Who story. Heck they could of been created from the Cybermen and Daleks that were sucked back into the void. Maybe a instead of them wiping each other out a fringe group combined and with their joined strength were able to rise to dominance either converting the others or destroying them. Then they found a way to make it back to real space and cause mayhem. That would be an awesome story.
heck, series 4 has been my favorite for over 10 years now
Stolen Earth/J's End, Midnight, and SITL/FOTD alone totally make the season for me
Yeah it was bad Meta-Crisis Doctor killed all the daleks (well, the pure Davrosian Daleks) but like.... they would’ve slaughtered the universe. Tenth is like “how could you that’s evil” when the Daleks absolutely 110% would’ve gone on a killing spree after their Reality Bomb plan got smashed. He had no choice if he wanted to preserve the lives of billions still within the Medusa Cascade and the trillions upon trillions safely in the rest of the universe. Genocide is bad but Meta-Crisis Doctor was kinda backed into a wall. Either he did what he did, or let a massive army of genocidal squids in tanks rip the universe a new one
Interesting theory regarding the Metacrisis Doctor being in a S1 state of mind due to his hand being cut off during the Christmas Invasion, but does this not contradict the Bad Wolf Bay sequence towards the end? When Rose talks to both of them about their chat at the end of Doomsday and asks them how the sentence “Rose Tyler…” was gonna end, how come the Metacrisis knew what Ten would have said, if he is basically a version of the Doctor for whom Parting of the Ways is “still fresh” in his memory? Wouldn’t that be information he has no access to? Can’t imagine he would have gotten that information from Donna either.
DW Lockdown has really made me interested in a companion crossover in a similar way to this finale.
13:13 But this was never really going to be the "end" for the Daleks was it, let's face it. Also why am I hearing the 13th Doctor's theme?
@Jacob Wood At least Moffat gave them a rest through series 6
Russell T Davies wanted all of Sarah Janes gang in the episode but couldn’t afford it.
I have, not even joking, seen these two episodes over 50 times
i mean anouther point to say, the meta crisis doctor was right to kill all the daleks, yes the reality bomb was deactivated but there was still a new dalek empire, one that was capable of stealing whole planets, that would be the greatest threat to the universe
I would be extremely interested in a video about what went wrong with the Daleks since RTD's run. Especially since this series has been so good so far!
During the 4/19 tweetalong of The Stolen Earth and Journey’s End RTD revealed that he had originally planned much more for the Meta-Crisis Doctor, explaining that the original story had him raising an entire army to defeat the Daleks and overall being more destructive. It’s a real shame we didn’t get to see this because it would have given more reasoning to the Doctor’ anger at his Meta-Crisis and would have prevented critics from dismissing the Meta-Crisis as just a fan-service for Rose and the Doctor’s love story.
So the Metacrisis doctor could be the 'Hybrid' from season 9
Very concise and accurate. The Daleks were never as scary after that story arc
Holy shit why do you only have 850+ subs?! I genuenly thought you were just a channel with 500k+.
Journey’s End was the first episode of Doctor Who I ever saw.
the meta crisis doctor is kinda similar to Roxas in Kingdom Hearts.
First time seeing the Dalek: Oh wow that’s such an interesting and cool species. Scary, psychological, chilling, but interesting and complex and empathetic.
Second time: these are the most frightening Who species. Just the sight shakes me to my core. A heaving fear grows from the depths of my gut whenever they’re on screen.
Third time: they’re less scary but still good and give me a bit of the willies.
Fourth time: oh for fuck sake not these guys again! They’re laughable at this point! Plunger wielding garbage bin head ass. .
Fifth time: OK THATS JUST RIDICULOUS
It was the greatest finale in Sci fi TV history , EPIC in the right way and noting has even come close since , the only other TV season finale that was close to it was Stargate SG1 season finale Lost City 1 & 2.
And the music was the best I’ve ever herd in. Sci fi show , and the music was MORE EPIC that anything I’ve ever herd in movies.
Holy moly this channel is growing so fast lmao not surprising tho keep up the great content
11:30 plus, the meta-crisis doctor is affected by human DNA, since Donna touched the hand. Thus, the meta-doctor isn't even a timelord, not to mention a "real" doctor, but a hybrid between Timelord and Human (maybe that's an easteregg to the 1996 film, where the eight Doctor stated to be half human). Humans are more revengefull than the doctor, so I think that's the main reason why the meta-doctor blew up the daleks.