YES, please!!! Today's western orthodox do NOT see the connection to our infiltrated government's, and all other system's: medical, education, law, science, etc.!!!
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." The Word of God is good enough for me. God bless.
Some folks are too indoctrinated with "space porn" to accept this truth. Thank you for this video! I would love to hear the same topic from other Ante Nicene.
@@stephenmorrison335 There are 'endless' galaxies etc. Our solar system is 100% heliocentric. The Earth and other planets revolve around the Sun. What proof is there of a firmament with a moon and star embedded in it?
Amen! Amazing homilies! Praise God for his wonderful Creation, which is a fixed, immovable, stationary topographical plane with a literal firmament. This truth is so important as many are deceived(as was I)!
How do sailors and airplane pilots navigate the oceans if the earth is flat considering they take into account the Earths curvature when they do? And if the Earth is flat shouldn't a flight to Australia be twice as long as a flight to Europe if both start at the west coast? I'm not even using science here. The Earth is round and that doesn't contradict Christianity.
I love how the saints additional comments to his audience at the time are included. Truly makes it feel real and alive and like I am sitting at his feet
If anyone's interested for more on this topic from an Orthodox Christian perspective i did a video 4 months ago titled "The Church Fathers on the Firmament & Biblical Cosmology" where i draw from many quotes from the Church Fathers as well as from St. Basil's Hexaemeron.
Thanks for making this. It needed to be said. There is no way to reconcile what passes for modern "science" with the truth given to us by God. I think we need to just reject that inclination to accommodate those falsehoods for the sake of not appearing "extreme."
We all have a God-shaped void, that we try to fill with counterfeits that only Jesus Christ can fill.. he wants a relationship and fellowship with us. He loves us and wants to spend eternity in heaven with us. We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell.
That was excellent; thank you for taking the time to record and post this. What an encouragement and provocation of thought! In our consideration of His handiwork, we see that our God is great and worthy of all praise, glory and honor. All of the disheartening and disappointing observations installed within this moment of our life experience seem so minuscule; even petty compared to His love, grace and mercy directed towards us. He sent His only Son to lead us out of certain death and permanent darkness! What a gift! Thank you King Jesus!
That was great-thank you; I wish you had expounded on the plants being created at the end of the third day before God created the sun 🌞 ❤ Glory to God 🙏
This looks interesting. We keep seeing the rockets hitting the waters above us. I posted a video yesterday about 7 rockets that hit the firmament. 👂🤔 This reminds me of blowing soap bubbles as a kid, and trying to get 🫧 bubbles within bubbles. I think the "waters" just means energy and frequency division. YOU yourself are referred to as the "living water" in the scriptures. The smaller fractal of the "fractal nature of the universe". I remember listening to a lady who had a NDE describing everything as bubbles in her experience. 🙂
Thank you for pulling all this together. I am as confused as others here in regards to St John's cosmology, specifically his adamant denial of a plural heaven/s, especially given the fact that he does comment on 2 Cor 12:2 thusly: "For if Paul who was caught up and whom things unspeakable, so many and so great, had befallen was in ignorance, much more we. For, indeed, that he was in Paradise he knew, and that he was in the third heaven he was not ignorant, but the manner he knew not clearly." If as he says, the plural is merely a Hebraism, an artifact of language, then why would St Paul specifically mention a third heaven, and why would St John repeat it without comment? The specificity of the use of an ordinal, over and above merely a generic plural, seems pretty definitive. I can't find anywhere where St John addresses this apparent discrepancy. St Basil for his part seems to use "heaven" and "heavens" interchangeably in his Hexameron. St John of Damascus gets rather more granular in his "Exact Exposition" and may provide a solution to this apparent riddle: "The heaven of heaven, then, is the first heaven which is above the firmament. So here we have two heavens, for God called the firmament also Heaven. Genesis 1:8 And it is customary in the divine Scripture to speak of the air also as heavens, because we see it above us. Bless Him, it says, all you birds of the heaven, meaning of the air. For it is the air and not the heaven that is the region in which birds fly. So here we have three heavens, as the divine Apostle said. 2 Corinthians 12:2 But if you should wish to look upon the seven zones as seven heavens there is no injury done to the word of truth. For it is usual in the Hebrew tongue to speak of heaven in the plural, that is, as heavens, and when a Hebrew wishes to say heaven of heaven, he usually says heavens of heavens, and this clearly means heaven of heaven , which is above the firmament, and the waters which are above the heavens, whether it is the air and the firmament, or the seven zones of the firmament, or the firmament itself which are spoken of in the plural as heavens according to the Hebrew custom."
Several early Church Fathers and monks wrote about a spherical Earth, including: 1. Origen of Alexandria (185-254 AD): In his work "Contra Celsum," Origen argued for a spherical Earth based on Scripture and reason. 2. St. Basil of Caesarea (329-379 AD): In his "Hexaemeron," Basil described the Earth as a sphere, citing biblical passages and scientific observations. 3. St. Ambrose of Milan (339-397 AD): Ambrose wrote about the Earth's spherical shape in his work "Hexaemeron," emphasizing its consistency with Christian teachings. 4. St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD): In his book "The City of God," Augustine discussed the Earth's spherical shape, acknowledging the scientific consensus of his time. 5. Cosmas Indicopleustes (6th century AD): Although his work "Christian Topography" is often cited as promoting a flat Earth, Cosmas actually described the Earth as a sphere in some passages. 6. St. Bede the Venerable (673-735 AD): Bede, an Anglo-Saxon monk, wrote about the Earth's spherical shape in his work "De Natura Rerum," demonstrating a clear understanding of the concept. These early Christian thinkers demonstrated a willingness to engage with scientific ideas and incorporate them into their theological frameworks. You should listen to the holy fathers on matters of spirituality. We can't consult a physicist when we need to get a sickness treated, we need a physician. Similarly in matters of science and metaphysical reality, who should be consulted? Actual scientists or a monk?
Consult with actual scientists. Some of these are also religious of one kind or another. I know of many priests who also have a scientific background, including those who have made original contributions. The advice of St Augustine on this subject is very much to the point, in his work _The Literal Meaning of Genesis._ Augustine observes that during his time people were well aware of the conclusions of the science of astronomy from experience and the light of reason. To give scripture a reading that contradicts certain knowledge of the natural world gives a ready made argument to all those who would reject the certain assertions of the true religion. In so doing such people are acting not in accord with God's will but in accord with the will of our enemy who wishes to destroy us both bodily and spiritually.
@@PadraigTomas Consult the scientists who deny God and believe everything magically evolved from a magical exploding dot? Which scientists to consult? The ones who must submit to certain beliefs to keep their jobs? Anyone can be a scientist.
Keep in mind the idea of a spherical world is not in opposition to what St John here is saying, it is just that we live in the sphere, not on it. So when many Ante Nicene mention Spherically, they are not teaching a helio -sin-trick model
In greek the word "heaven" can have two different senses. It can be the sky or the place where God is. So the first "heaven" would be where the birds and clouds are, the second "heaven" is where the sun and moon are, the actual Heaven where God is is only one Heaven and it's the third "heaven"
Well heaven in greek can also be the word for "sky" or can be translated that way. So the first "heaven" would be where the birds and clouds are, the second "heaven" is where the sun and moon are, the Third Heaven is where God is and that's only one heaven. That's my understanding at least
Deuteronomy 29:29, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law". God wants us to use science or we wouldn't have the ability to. Books of the Bible like Genesis and Revelations are almost all metaphor and symbolism. Jesus Christ is Lord, we have to use what we know with what we discover. Humans are intelligent for a reason.
No they aren't. They have 3 layers. 1st is literal, 2.nd is allegorical, meaning it has a teaching applicable to life, 3rd is a secret. But you can't go to the 2.nd if you didn't accept the 1st. There is a Firmament above us, and there is Heaven, God and angels RIGHT ABOVE OUR HEADS. Don't you know that devil stole the science? Where is heaven on a globe Earth?
I see “Christians” say this and deny the fall of man as something symbolic. The fallen nature and any type of restoration of that nature doesn't make sense without a literal Adam. Christ on the cross then doesn't make sense if death is just natural to the world. If Adam is symbolic and Christ is the new Adam why is Christ not symbolic? Maybe all of the salvation stuff is just symbolic? Then you get Jesus is just a cool dude who taught peace and love hippy nonsense. Then they allegorize the devil and sin and we’re not in a spiritual battle and just need SSRIs and weed to improve our “vibes”. New age relativist woo. Those demonic coexist bumper stickers. This is all satan. There are certainly mysteries to this universe but it doesn't reward us any if people are caused to doubt because of these things they can't understand. The only knowledge we need is that which brings us closer to God which is found in the church. We live in an abominable world where all of these “good” and “profitable” things that make our lives easier bring us further from God. With this in mind, I am not a proponent of the sciences. None of the prophets needed any of this to be righteous and live good lives.
Scientists get away with "explaining" the universe and creation in their own image, when they actually have little to no evidence or solid proof of anything they believe in. Unfortunately many of our Brothers and sisters in Christ will take up those beliefs was fervent faith, instead of just trusting in God and His word. If you know the lives of the saints and you know that some of them truly have seen creation for what it is, and never did they say it was something other than the truth of the scriptures. I have 100% faith and the Bible, God, and his Word, I would never question Him because of the theories of men.
There's no firmament or waters above or below. The Sun is at the center of our solar system and the Earth along with the other planets orbit around it. This is settled science.
Look up Ivan Panin’s letter to the New York Sun published in 1899. People have no idea there’s proof that the Bible is the word of God and is 100% true.
You look inside the firmament. The earth ain’t going anywhere. It’s immovable. This is from my Nixon p1000 th-cam.com/video/yGg9C2x5IQw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mSPLqOVthHXmxCyw
The light that travelled over the distance to hit your eyes are exactly what you saw. But what you saw is not what it is presently like, so you are looking into the past, and not present. Study and admire. But be humble in acknowledging there is something that designed it. And to deny this ultimately without fail is not just merely a sign of the beginning of pride, but is just a pride to a point of turning the heart solid.
Look up people's video's using the Nikon p900 (or is it P1000..?). The "planet's" are gaseous bodies, and reflection's of light - possibly from above the darkness. Several people have done simulation's of these gases lighting up in a lab... Search for them (on individual platform's, cause googling won't likely find them). There are no planet's as we have been taught, space is NASA lie (freemasonic/satanist corporation).
Firmament A place or station above in the space where “firm amendments are made” for us here on earth.. Ie :- his kingdom come on earth, as it is in heaven. Ie :- Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Matthew 18:18
Which early saint spoke about outer space the way modern people do? Furthermore, most saints who taught on Genesis 1 speak about the firmament holding up waters and the stars, moon, and sun that were set into the firmament. Ezekiel 1 shows a video from above the lowest parts of the firmament and it doesn’t sound like outer space. The idea that huge rocks reflecting light from trillions of miles away are what God set into the firmament is so far removed from anything we see in the Church Fathers. It’s merely your attempt to reconcile atheistic, alchemical, pagan, and government-backed theories with the Scriptures and the Fathers. You can believe it if you want, but recognize that it’s far from anything the saints taught, except for some recent saints who, to my knowledge, didn’t spend much time or show much concern in understanding these things and largely accepted modern heliocentric cosmology as presented to us.
@@OrthodoxWisdom I prefer the bible and what Jesus taught as opposed to saints. Apart from that, getting back to the subject, The bible clearly stated birds fly in the expanse and the stars moon and sun are in the expanse. The bible also says the expanse separates the waters below from the waters above the expanse. Because the expanse is our sky and space, the only conclusion one can come to is the universe has and ending and outside of that seam is water.
@blackcatsarecool. “The only conclusion”… seems awfully premature based on what you shared. If expanse is a worthy synonym for firmament to emphasize over others, it doesn’t have to mean “air” and “vacuum of space”, it could just as well mean a layer of substance, including water or merely holding it up, and expanded over the earth. Stretched out like a tent as described in Isaiah 40:22 and Job 37:18. Also, the birds fly in the face of the firmament and the sun, moon, and stars are set into the firmament. Seems the plain reading is far more akin to waters not too far above. The modern lies from esoteric pagan philosophy and NASA that have taught us that space is a place we can visit have shaped your reading of scripture far too much. If you are a person who thinks we still went to the moon, look into that. Once you see how deep the lies from NASA go and price together observations from others about celestial bodies and the nature of this realm then the plain reading of the scripture becomes tenable again
@@OrthodoxWisdom what does visiting space have to do with this subject? You’re talking a load of rubbish about things that have nothing to do with the bible. Stick with the subject if you can and try not to go off on tangents. The bible has nothing to do with NASA etc. the bible says birds fly in the firmament and the sun moon and stars are in the firmament. It also says the firmament was made to seperate waters from waters.
Please see Fr Seraphim Rose's Orthodox Survival Course Lecture 3 section "Copernican Revolution" for a different approach to this question than the framing presented by this particular content creator.
St Seraphim Rose seems to frame all revolutions as anti-theist propaganda, no? The Protestant Deformation and Secualar Endarkenment were synergistic; evolutionary science fiction, cosmological science fiction, etc.
Learning about the firmament doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the shape of the earth. Don’t rush to conclusions, learn from the saints and observe the earth more critically
@Querymonger I’m still reading, but so far St. Basil seems a lot less clear on exactly what shape he thinks the earth is. At times he says things that seem difficult to reconcile with a spherical earth. And in homily 9 of the Hexaemeron he says the shape is not worth the time to debate and determine. St. Ambrose I need to read more of, but his discourse on day 2 of Creation shows he understands there to be literal waters above, not merely clouds or atmosphere, that the sky moves and not the earth, etc
Awake to rightousness and sin not... God is Holy and cannot look upon sin. We need the righteousness of Jesus Christ applied to our account so we can get to God, have a relationship with Him and go to heaven. The only way to get Jesus Christ's righteousness applied to our account is put our trust in his finished work on the cross. He shed his blood to cover our sin.. he took God's wrath.. he took our hell, and in turn he gives you his righteousness. What a loving God! Why would you take a chance on holding onto your own righteousness which is as filthy rags according to the Bible. You see friend, we are all sinners in need of a Saviour! If you trust that Jesus Christ paid it all for you, ask him to forgive you for your sin and save your soul. Romans 10:13 says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
@@thepessimistictitan2655 since when do ships have to take into account the curvature of the ocean? Have you talked to some ship captains about this? What about airline pilots having to take into account the curvature of the earth? Do you think they dip the nose of the airplane down to adjust for the earth's curvature in order to keep altitude? Lolol
Even if scientifically the heliocentric model holds all things of importance transpire with the Earth at the center so heliocentrism is of little consequence when it comes to our lives in repentence as that takes place on earth not the sun so ultimatley these debates are simply just distractions.
Wasnt it Paul who spoke of the 7 Heavens ? And also pauls proclaiming the Impefectness of the old covenant ?No offense to anyone truly, but i dont see theosis as anything else but the original sin of Adam committed all over again. No man can choose his place in Heaven or in Christs body. And to follow teachings that say otherwise is the sin of adam. A sin of pride that says to you you will be like God. Im Catholic but ive studied the Orthodox faith for about 2 years and i know its not for me.
John 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; *that they also may be one in Us,* that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 *I in them, and You in Me;* that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. Mark 10:7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Note: the new covenant is a marriage covenant between Christ and His Church, the Church also being His body... Theosis) St. Athanasius, On the incarnation 54:3 He, indeed, assumed humanity that we might become God. He manifested Himself by means of a body in order that we might perceive the Mind of the unseen Father. This issue is the flawed catholic presuppositions which include a flawed Christology and a flawed soteriology. You should hold your catholic presuppositions up to the same scrutiny as you have ours because it is your catholic presuppositions which have held you back from the truth even though many catholics would disagree with you on your position
99.9% of all observable matter in the universe is made up of plasma and plasma is 92% water. Plasma in space is also electrified and if you Google it and ask if space is electrical it says yes. The water above us, is plasma! It is electrified plasma, and that’s why it is blue.!!
“Observable matter” in space is not testable. Therefore we can theorize but theory is not a fact unless it’s tested and no one can test anything in “space”.
All of this creation is electrified, running on electromagnetic frequency, so this is logical, and it bejng plasma must also be how the sun and moon are moved (the earth foundation having magnetism). It's all so wonderfully perfect, made by our wonderful God!
Plasma is a superheated gas, the 4th state of matter. Plasma is not a form of energy in itself. It is the result of a very large amount of energy acting upon matter (heat), there is no water in plasma. Unless you define water as being hydrogen without oxygen for example, hydrogen is one of the first elements used in a fusion reaction due to its low atomic weight. The sun is an example of a fusion reaction. Your comment is full of half truths and misunderstandings of basic physics. I hope you can break free of these false teachings.
I’m saying that we should trust Christ and his Church, Who gave us the Scriptures and Saints, and be doubtful of NASA and others who promote what is contrary. I think you are open to it, there is a surprisingly good reason to embrace the Scriptures and reject the generally accepted modern cosmology. It’s evident, if anyone takes an honest look at the details, that we didn’t land on the moon (see the documentaries “American Moon” and “Astronauts Gone Wild”), that we can’t actually explore past the Van Allen radiation belts, etc. NASA has been caught faking “photos” and video so many times. Even the more recent “photos” on the entire earth are, as NASA’s Richard Simmon explained, a composite image. In other words, photoshop. See his interview about his 2002 image here: www.nasa.gov/people-of-nasa/goddard-people/robert-simmon-aka-mr-blue-marble/ Also, the 2015 “blue marble”, another composite image, clearly has “sex” written in the clouds. See bottom left, upside down: www.nasa.gov/image-article/nasa-captures-epic-earth-image/ There are also documented phenomenon that seem to point in the direction that the firmament is real. One such declassified mission “Operation Fishbowl” where they detonated high altitude missiles into what they called “the firmament”. It’s a fascinating document. There is a video showing the explosions too. Here is the document: apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA469481.pdf There is also the “lunar wave” documented now by a number of people, most notable Crrow777. See his documentary “Shoot the Moon”: rumble.com/v5bihrv-shoot-the-moon-original-classic.html Here’s a playlist of videos on the firmament. I haven’t watched them all but it might be helpful: th-cam.com/play/PL9JK-HA6DrRGTiCESkQyPbSlIamq_xi12.html&si=Ni27hDvJ1vCbbxjk I’d also suggest the TH-cam channel Taboo Conspiracy. Lots a fascinating videos of obersvations, whistleblowers, etc. I hope this helps.
There are at least 7 heavens. The Ascension of Isaiah and Testament of Abraham shows these heavens. 2 Corinthians 12:2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
You are right. There is 1 here under the Firmament where we have weather, there is 2.nd heaven that has 3 levels, and there Lucifer, the prince of the power of air abides, and there is the 3rd heaven, where Paul was, and that heaven also has 3 levels. That is altogether 7.
Yeah jst cause somebody a long time ago says something doesn't automatically make it true, even if they were truly a holy person. The Church herself says that even the saints can get things wrong even about the faith sometimes.
No offense, but it doesn't seem like you've inquired very deeply into the subject if you're prepared to write off the wisdom of the saints that quickly (they were unanimously geocentrists, so you're dismissing more than just "one holy person").
@@orthodox_soul - The early Christian Saints did not beleive in the flat earth of the Old Testament. The most modern scientific idea at the time of St John Chrysostom was that of Ptolemy, that described the independent motions of the stars, which several Saints mention (St Basil and St Hippolytus of Rome come to mind). Geocentrism was at least as old as Plato, as was the belief that the earth is round. These were the facts as known to them, so they accepted them in preference to the Jewish belief in the Old Testament of a flat earth, a solid, sky, waters above the sky, etc. No sane Orthodox believes that encyclopaedic knowledge was complete by the time of St John Chrysostom, that is just ridiculous.
@@nikolaosaggelopoulos8113 well, there's at least one major distinction between your train of thought and mine, as I am apparently one who is not numbered among the "sane Orthodox". Your contention is that knowledge is in some way wholly contingent on human progress--hence your referring to "encyclopedic knowledge", in the sense that we can claim to know more than the saints according to our cumulative advancements in various fields of philosophy and science--while I, on the other hand, would not agree that knowledge is dependent on the current consensus of secular academia, but would be more inclined to defer to Divine Revelation as the basis of what we know + how we know it (i.e. the accessibility of the truth in its fullness is wholly at the disposal of even the most uneducated of men, immediately in the moment God Reveals it). In my view, what's more silly is to believe that saints moved by the Spirit of God and who have attained to holiness can have detailed visions of the past (as the Creation narrative in Genesis was not liable to wait on the sciences to dictate what happened), and to believe the saints can have prophetic insights into the literal future as well, and can discern peoples thoughts and past actions by clairvoyance, can perform miraculous healings and can do all these inexplicable things by the power of God...yet, to assume the one thing they CAN'T do, is to have any worthwhile or well-informed insight into the nature of the Created order, despite their being directly connected to the supreme Source of all knowledge and wisdom. To me, that's what's ridiculous... I believe their communion with God is more credible than the machinations of unbelieving men with their wildly speculative, unfalsifiable, naturalistic theories they seek to prove in order to justify ejecting God from their worldview by devising an origin story and a model of cosmology that precludes any supernatural explanation while still masquerading it all as a rational alternative under the guise of "science". If that makes me "not sane", then I suppose I'd rather be a fool. At least I'll be in good company.
"The principles of truth are always vindicated by the people who oppose them" is an amazing piece of wisdom
Great stuff.
As true today as ever
Next up: St John Chrysostom on the synagogue of satan
You know he had to do it to em
YES, please!!! Today's western orthodox do NOT see the connection to our infiltrated government's, and all other system's: medical, education, law, science, etc.!!!
All non-Orthodox Christian places of worship are synagogues of Satan.
SaTurn😇St Ann 🍐 NataS🤳 St Jon🪞mai👈Yam🍠 Qing iAMaz JameSSennah ❤️🔥 NorA🪱ArC CraM NorA LiveD S'ehUs Christ Dawg Naba 🌋MaarS👈 Sunn iS Aryan 📐Newe= Mail🪱,Jung Carl Gustavvatsup TestAmenT ♊️
Can you help provide me with the sources of his teachings on this? You could save me time by pointing me to the sources. Thank you.
God: "In the beginning - water."
satan: "in the beginning - nothing expolded and created rocks."
....yup and even nothing exploded and created the eye, the kidney and the brain plus photosynthesis all by RANDOM CHANCE and MUTATION.
Its nice to know that the saints always knew the most.
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." The Word of God is good enough for me. God bless.
Thank you for not being afraid to share the truth from the Saints!
It's so nice to hear somebody who just keeps it simple and doesn't overthink it.
I am very appreciative of the teaching. Thank you.
Some folks are too indoctrinated with "space porn" to accept this truth. Thank you for this video! I would love to hear the same topic from other Ante Nicene.
You're saying space is fake?
@@RoosterNutz12 "Space might be the final frontier, but it's made in a Hollywood basement."
@@RoosterNutz12 The heliocentric version with endless galaxies etc, yes. The sun moon and stars are in the firmament
@@stephenmorrison335You actually think space is a hoax? Seriously?
@@stephenmorrison335 There are 'endless' galaxies etc. Our solar system is 100% heliocentric. The Earth and other planets revolve around the Sun.
What proof is there of a firmament with a moon and star embedded in it?
Amen! Amazing homilies! Praise God for his wonderful Creation, which is a fixed, immovable, stationary topographical plane with a literal firmament. This truth is so important as many are deceived(as was I)!
How do sailors and airplane pilots navigate the oceans if the earth is flat considering they take into account the Earths curvature when they do?
And if the Earth is flat shouldn't a flight to Australia be twice as long as a flight to Europe if both start at the west coast?
I'm not even using science here. The Earth is round and that doesn't contradict Christianity.
I love how the saints additional comments to his audience at the time are included. Truly makes it feel real and alive and like I am sitting at his feet
If anyone's interested for more on this topic from an Orthodox Christian perspective i did a video 4 months ago titled "The Church Fathers on the Firmament & Biblical Cosmology" where i draw from many quotes from the Church Fathers as well as from St. Basil's Hexaemeron.
Thank you
Thanks for making this. It needed to be said. There is no way to reconcile what passes for modern "science" with the truth given to us by God. I think we need to just reject that inclination to accommodate those falsehoods for the sake of not appearing "extreme."
The Holy Saints know 🗿🗿🗿
Thank you for sharing this with us so courageously 🙏 I love this truth
This is a Glorious presentation, extremely edifying. Thank you so much as always Timothy.
We all have a God-shaped void, that we try to fill with counterfeits that only Jesus Christ can fill.. he wants a relationship and fellowship with us. He loves us and wants to spend eternity in heaven with us. We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell.
That was excellent; thank you for taking the time to record and post this. What an encouragement and provocation of thought! In our consideration of His handiwork, we see that our God is great and worthy of all praise, glory and honor. All of the disheartening and disappointing observations installed within this moment of our life experience seem so minuscule; even petty compared to His love, grace and mercy directed towards us. He sent His only Son to lead us out of certain death and permanent darkness! What a gift! Thank you King Jesus!
That was great-thank you; I wish you had expounded on the plants being created at the end of the third day before God created the sun 🌞 ❤ Glory to God 🙏
This looks interesting. We keep seeing the rockets hitting the waters above us. I posted a video yesterday about 7 rockets that hit the firmament. 👂🤔
This reminds me of blowing soap bubbles as a kid, and trying to get 🫧 bubbles within bubbles. I think the "waters" just means energy and frequency division. YOU yourself are referred to as the "living water" in the scriptures. The smaller fractal of the "fractal nature of the universe". I remember listening to a lady who had a NDE describing everything as bubbles in her experience. 🙂
I saw that vid of the 7 rockets on crenshaw
I believe it's literally water above as holy scripture plainly tells us
NDE's are demonic
What are your thoughts on Crrow777 and others filming the "lunar wave"?
@@OrthodoxWisdom can't speak to these myself but I'd bitchute 'sky ice' if you haven't already seen it. Seems to me to explain things
Glory to God !
Blessed is the King of the Angels 👑
Amen! Hallelujah!
Thank you for pulling all this together. I am as confused as others here in regards to St John's cosmology, specifically his adamant denial of a plural heaven/s, especially given the fact that he does comment on 2 Cor 12:2 thusly:
"For if Paul who was caught up and whom things unspeakable, so many and so great, had befallen was in ignorance, much more we. For, indeed, that he was in Paradise he knew, and that he was in the third heaven he was not ignorant, but the manner he knew not clearly."
If as he says, the plural is merely a Hebraism, an artifact of language, then why would St Paul specifically mention a third heaven, and why would St John repeat it without comment? The specificity of the use of an ordinal, over and above merely a generic plural, seems pretty definitive. I can't find anywhere where St John addresses this apparent discrepancy.
St Basil for his part seems to use "heaven" and "heavens" interchangeably in his Hexameron.
St John of Damascus gets rather more granular in his "Exact Exposition" and may provide a solution to this apparent riddle:
"The heaven of heaven, then, is the first heaven which is above the firmament. So here we have two heavens, for God called the firmament also Heaven. Genesis 1:8 And it is customary in the divine Scripture to speak of the air also as heavens, because we see it above us. Bless Him, it says, all you birds of the heaven, meaning of the air. For it is the air and not the heaven that is the region in which birds fly. So here we have three heavens, as the divine Apostle said. 2 Corinthians 12:2 But if you should wish to look upon the seven zones as seven heavens there is no injury done to the word of truth. For it is usual in the Hebrew tongue to speak of heaven in the plural, that is, as heavens, and when a Hebrew wishes to say heaven of heaven, he usually says heavens of heavens, and this clearly means heaven of heaven , which is above the firmament, and the waters which are above the heavens, whether it is the air and the firmament, or the seven zones of the firmament, or the firmament itself which are spoken of in the plural as heavens according to the Hebrew custom."
You asked what I wanted to....
Several early Church Fathers and monks wrote about a spherical Earth, including:
1. Origen of Alexandria (185-254 AD): In his work "Contra Celsum," Origen argued for a spherical Earth based on Scripture and reason.
2. St. Basil of Caesarea (329-379 AD): In his "Hexaemeron," Basil described the Earth as a sphere, citing biblical passages and scientific observations.
3. St. Ambrose of Milan (339-397 AD): Ambrose wrote about the Earth's spherical shape in his work "Hexaemeron," emphasizing its consistency with Christian teachings.
4. St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD): In his book "The City of God," Augustine discussed the Earth's spherical shape, acknowledging the scientific consensus of his time.
5. Cosmas Indicopleustes (6th century AD): Although his work "Christian Topography" is often cited as promoting a flat Earth, Cosmas actually described the Earth as a sphere in some passages.
6. St. Bede the Venerable (673-735 AD): Bede, an Anglo-Saxon monk, wrote about the Earth's spherical shape in his work "De Natura Rerum," demonstrating a clear understanding of the concept.
These early Christian thinkers demonstrated a willingness to engage with scientific ideas and incorporate them into their theological frameworks. You should listen to the holy fathers on matters of spirituality. We can't consult a physicist when we need to get a sickness treated, we need a physician. Similarly in matters of science and metaphysical reality, who should be consulted? Actual scientists or a monk?
Consult with actual scientists.
Some of these are also religious of one kind or another. I know of many priests who also have a scientific background, including those who have made original contributions.
The advice of St Augustine on this subject is very much to the point, in his work _The Literal Meaning of Genesis._ Augustine observes that during his time people were well aware of the conclusions of the science of astronomy from experience and the light of reason. To give scripture a reading that contradicts certain knowledge of the natural world gives a ready made argument to all those who would reject the certain assertions of the true religion. In so doing such people are acting not in accord with God's will but in accord with the will of our enemy who wishes to destroy us both bodily and spiritually.
look up, hibbler productions documentaries
@@PadraigTomas Consult the scientists who deny God and believe everything magically evolved from a magical exploding dot? Which scientists to consult? The ones who must submit to certain beliefs to keep their jobs? Anyone can be a scientist.
Keep in mind the idea of a spherical world is not in opposition to what St John here is saying, it is just that we live in the sphere, not on it. So when many Ante Nicene mention Spherically, they are not teaching a helio -sin-trick model
This is my impression of reading St. Ambrose of Milan on day two of creation. He speaks of a sphere rotating around earth, with the stars set therein
Were basically God's personal "snowglobe"!! Nifty huh?!
FE
Yep. There is still Waters above...
wait but what about the 3rd heaven in Paul’s letters
In greek the word "heaven" can have two different senses. It can be the sky or the place where God is. So the first "heaven" would be where the birds and clouds are, the second "heaven" is where the sun and moon are, the actual Heaven where God is is only one Heaven and it's the third "heaven"
What book are you reading from, specifically?
See video description
Wait, multiple other Saints plus the Holy Scriptures themselves talk of multiple Heavens?
I am surprised nothing was mentioned of st paul's words " the third heaven"
Well heaven in greek can also be the word for "sky" or can be translated that way. So the first "heaven" would be where the birds and clouds are, the second "heaven" is where the sun and moon are, the Third Heaven is where God is and that's only one heaven.
That's my understanding at least
@@Desertfox-o2xIm reading the Septuagint and NT....both are greek texts....both use plurality for heaven
@@Donnielucas77 it seems like you didn't read my comment. How about this, I'll ask it simpler. Who's right? You or St. John Chrysostom?
@@Desertfox-o2x Im not here to debate. God bless your journey.
Heave en' - To heave up and down rhythmically. The Triune wave.
Satan is also the prince of the power of the air-he was walking up and down in the earth. But God is the creator of it all-far superior🌈
@@LOVEJITV Exactly, Heaven is Creation. However, you always worship the Creator.
Need prayer lm surrounding by my enemy
Deuteronomy 29:29, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law".
God wants us to use science or we wouldn't have the ability to. Books of the Bible like Genesis and Revelations are almost all metaphor and symbolism. Jesus Christ is Lord, we have to use what we know with what we discover. Humans are intelligent for a reason.
No they aren't. They have 3 layers. 1st is literal, 2.nd is allegorical, meaning it has a teaching applicable to life, 3rd is a secret. But you can't go to the 2.nd if you didn't accept the 1st. There is a Firmament above us, and there is Heaven, God and angels RIGHT ABOVE OUR HEADS.
Don't you know that devil stole the science? Where is heaven on a globe Earth?
No they arent.
th-cam.com/video/TlqQ7MukGhU/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
look up, hibbler productions documentaries
I see “Christians” say this and deny the fall of man as something symbolic. The fallen nature and any type of restoration of that nature doesn't make sense without a literal Adam. Christ on the cross then doesn't make sense if death is just natural to the world. If Adam is symbolic and Christ is the new Adam why is Christ not symbolic? Maybe all of the salvation stuff is just symbolic? Then you get Jesus is just a cool dude who taught peace and love hippy nonsense. Then they allegorize the devil and sin and we’re not in a spiritual battle and just need SSRIs and weed to improve our “vibes”. New age relativist woo. Those demonic coexist bumper stickers. This is all satan.
There are certainly mysteries to this universe but it doesn't reward us any if people are caused to doubt because of these things they can't understand. The only knowledge we need is that which brings us closer to God which is found in the church.
We live in an abominable world where all of these “good” and “profitable” things that make our lives easier bring us further from God. With this in mind, I am not a proponent of the sciences. None of the prophets needed any of this to be righteous and live good lives.
Scientists get away with "explaining" the universe and creation in their own image, when they actually have little to no evidence or solid proof of anything they believe in.
Unfortunately many of our Brothers and sisters in Christ will take up those beliefs was fervent faith, instead of just trusting in God and His word.
If you know the lives of the saints and you know that some of them truly have seen creation for what it is, and never did they say it was something other than the truth of the scriptures.
I have 100% faith and the Bible, God, and his Word, I would never question Him because of the theories of men.
There's no firmament or waters above or below. The Sun is at the center of our solar system and the Earth along with the other planets orbit around it. This is settled science.
Look up Ivan Panin’s letter to the New York Sun published in 1899. People have no idea there’s proof that the Bible is the word of God and is 100% true.
Its real ... 😊
What of St. Paul and him talking of the third heaven.
Robert Sungenis
So I look through my telescope and see Saturn, and the andromeda galaxy. What am I looking at then.
You look inside the firmament. The earth ain’t going anywhere. It’s immovable. This is from my Nixon p1000 th-cam.com/video/yGg9C2x5IQw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mSPLqOVthHXmxCyw
The light that travelled over the distance to hit your eyes are exactly what you saw. But what you saw is not what it is presently like, so you are looking into the past, and not present.
Study and admire. But be humble in acknowledging there is something that designed it. And to deny this ultimately without fail is not just merely a sign of the beginning of pride, but is just a pride to a point of turning the heart solid.
Look up people's video's using the Nikon p900 (or is it P1000..?). The "planet's" are gaseous bodies, and reflection's of light - possibly from above the darkness. Several people have done simulation's of these gases lighting up in a lab... Search for them (on individual platform's, cause googling won't likely find them). There are no planet's as we have been taught, space is NASA lie (freemasonic/satanist corporation).
You saw Saturn and andromeda. The poetic description of creation in genesis doesn't mean that current astronomy discoveries are false.
@@Kaileb984 nice question dodge.
Firmament
A place or station above in the space where “firm amendments are made” for us here on earth..
Ie :- his kingdom come on earth, as it is in heaven.
Ie :- Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Matthew 18:18
That is the most schizo reading of a word I've ever seen.
@James-j7m2n its called the lie-berry because its books are full of lies and the berry is the forbidden fruit of knowledge 😂😂😂
look up, hibbler productions documentaries
This means there is water on the outside of space. The sky and space is the expance, outside of space is more water.
Which early saint spoke about outer space the way modern people do? Furthermore, most saints who taught on Genesis 1 speak about the firmament holding up waters and the stars, moon, and sun that were set into the firmament. Ezekiel 1 shows a video from above the lowest parts of the firmament and it doesn’t sound like outer space. The idea that huge rocks reflecting light from trillions of miles away are what God set into the firmament is so far removed from anything we see in the Church Fathers. It’s merely your attempt to reconcile atheistic, alchemical, pagan, and government-backed theories with the Scriptures and the Fathers. You can believe it if you want, but recognize that it’s far from anything the saints taught, except for some recent saints who, to my knowledge, didn’t spend much time or show much concern in understanding these things and largely accepted modern heliocentric cosmology as presented to us.
@@OrthodoxWisdom I prefer the bible and what Jesus taught as opposed to saints. Apart from that, getting back to the subject, The bible clearly stated birds fly in the expanse and the stars moon and sun are in the expanse. The bible also says the expanse separates the waters below from the waters above the expanse. Because the expanse is our sky and space, the only conclusion one can come to is the universe has and ending and outside of that seam is water.
@blackcatsarecool. “The only conclusion”… seems awfully premature based on what you shared. If expanse is a worthy synonym for firmament to emphasize over others, it doesn’t have to mean “air” and “vacuum of space”, it could just as well mean a layer of substance, including water or merely holding it up, and expanded over the earth. Stretched out like a tent as described in Isaiah 40:22 and Job 37:18. Also, the birds fly in the face of the firmament and the sun, moon, and stars are set into the firmament. Seems the plain reading is far more akin to waters not too far above. The modern lies from esoteric pagan philosophy and NASA that have taught us that space is a place we can visit have shaped your reading of scripture far too much. If you are a person who thinks we still went to the moon, look into that. Once you see how deep the lies from NASA go and price together observations from others about celestial bodies and the nature of this realm then the plain reading of the scripture becomes tenable again
@@OrthodoxWisdom what does visiting space have to do with this subject? You’re talking a load of rubbish about things that have nothing to do with the bible. Stick with the subject if you can and try not to go off on tangents. The bible has nothing to do with NASA etc. the bible says birds fly in the firmament and the sun moon and stars are in the firmament. It also says the firmament was made to seperate waters from waters.
A ship in space... A space ship... What do you use a ship for?
Please see Fr Seraphim Rose's Orthodox Survival Course Lecture 3 section "Copernican Revolution" for a different approach to this question than the framing presented by this particular content creator.
orthodoxaustralia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/course.pdf
Fr. Seraphim’s views are always welcome
St Seraphim Rose seems to frame all revolutions as anti-theist propaganda, no?
The Protestant Deformation and Secualar Endarkenment were synergistic; evolutionary science fiction, cosmological science fiction, etc.
Hmm
So according to Chrysostom, the firmament could be air? Interesting...
Whatever it is, St. John thinks it holds up real water
What in the world is going on? Now I have to believe the earth is flat?
Learning about the firmament doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the shape of the earth. Don’t rush to conclusions, learn from the saints and observe the earth more critically
No. Most other saints and church fathers argue for spherical earth including St. Basil St Ambrose and St Augustine
@Querymonger I’m still reading, but so far St. Basil seems a lot less clear on exactly what shape he thinks the earth is. At times he says things that seem difficult to reconcile with a spherical earth. And in homily 9 of the Hexaemeron he says the shape is not worth the time to debate and determine. St. Ambrose I need to read more of, but his discourse on day 2 of Creation shows he understands there to be literal waters above, not merely clouds or atmosphere, that the sky moves and not the earth, etc
NASA! USA! 😂 we'll know in the end.
@Manoj-r7w8r to hide creation and his creator.
The Heavens = Ouranos (Greek) = Haschamayim (Hebrew). Water = Mayim (Hebrew).
this Real is flat :D
In the Hebrew language there is no singular word Heaven. The word is always in the plural sense.
I’m only half way through. This is good information but I could do without the commentary.
Only one minute of my commentary at the beginning. The rest is the words of St. John
We live in a crater with a dome on a bigass planet with 187 other biospherers
Awake to rightousness and sin not... God is Holy and cannot look upon sin. We need the righteousness of Jesus Christ applied to our account so we can get to God, have a relationship with Him and go to heaven. The only way to get Jesus Christ's righteousness applied to our account is put our trust in his finished work on the cross. He shed his blood to cover our sin.. he took God's wrath.. he took our hell, and in turn he gives you his righteousness. What a loving God! Why would you take a chance on holding onto your own righteousness which is as filthy rags according to the Bible. You see friend, we are all sinners in need of a Saviour! If you trust that Jesus Christ paid it all for you, ask him to forgive you for your sin and save your soul. Romans 10:13 says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The earth is flat.
No it factually is not
@@Querymonger what facts? nasa pictures? Lol
No it’s not flat silly
If the Earth is flat, how do ships navigate the Oceans since they take into account the curvature of the Earth
@@thepessimistictitan2655 since when do ships have to take into account the curvature of the ocean? Have you talked to some ship captains about this? What about airline pilots having to take into account the curvature of the earth? Do you think they dip the nose of the airplane down to adjust for the earth's curvature in order to keep altitude? Lolol
Even if scientifically the heliocentric model holds all things of importance transpire with the Earth at the center so heliocentrism is of little consequence when it comes to our lives in repentence as that takes place on earth not the sun so ultimatley these debates are simply just distractions.
I disagree, to sacrifice truth to any degree will take its toll on faith hindering repentance
the "heliocentric model" is s4t4nic diversion.
@@meangreenmememachine2890 Agreed, it's a teaching of the jwsh kabbalah.
@@twaho I agree, but can you point me in the direction to see how it’s from Kabbalah good sir
@@twahoor do you mean the Kabbalists promote this model and try to deceive us?
Wasnt it Paul who spoke of the 7 Heavens ? And also pauls proclaiming the Impefectness of the old covenant ?No offense to anyone truly, but i dont see theosis as anything else but the original sin of Adam committed all over again. No man can choose his place in Heaven or in Christs body. And to follow teachings that say otherwise is the sin of adam. A sin of pride that says to you you will be like God. Im Catholic but ive studied the Orthodox faith for about 2 years and i know its not for me.
John 17:20
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; *that they also may be one in Us,* that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 *I in them, and You in Me;* that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
Mark 10:7
‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
(Note: the new covenant is a marriage covenant between Christ and His Church, the Church also being His body... Theosis)
St. Athanasius, On the incarnation 54:3
He, indeed, assumed humanity that we might become God. He manifested Himself by means of a body in order that we might perceive the Mind of the unseen Father.
This issue is the flawed catholic presuppositions which include a flawed Christology and a flawed soteriology. You should hold your catholic presuppositions up to the same scrutiny as you have ours because it is your catholic presuppositions which have held you back from the truth even though many catholics would disagree with you on your position
99.9% of all observable matter in the universe is made up of plasma and plasma is 92% water. Plasma in space is also electrified and if you Google it and ask if space is electrical it says yes. The water above us, is plasma! It is electrified plasma, and that’s why it is blue.!!
No offence but sounds like you're trying to interpret the truth with the profane babblings of the atheistic theo(he)retical teachings
“Observable matter” in space is not testable. Therefore we can theorize but theory is not a fact unless it’s tested and no one can test anything in “space”.
All of this creation is electrified, running on electromagnetic frequency, so this is logical, and it bejng plasma must also be how the sun and moon are moved (the earth foundation having magnetism). It's all so wonderfully perfect, made by our wonderful God!
Plasma is a superheated gas, the 4th state of matter. Plasma is not a form of energy in itself. It is the result of a very large amount of energy acting upon matter (heat), there is no water in plasma. Unless you define water as being hydrogen without oxygen for example, hydrogen is one of the first elements used in a fusion reaction due to its low atomic weight. The sun is an example of a fusion reaction.
Your comment is full of half truths and misunderstandings of basic physics.
I hope you can break free of these false teachings.
😂
Maybe " water " is mistranslated?
What you leads you to think Genesis 1:6-8 and other scriptures have been mistranslated for all these years?
@OrthodoxWisdom that would be the only way for me to believe in a firmament above and below. Surely God can't be wrong?
I’m saying that we should trust Christ and his Church, Who gave us the Scriptures and Saints, and be doubtful of NASA and others who promote what is contrary. I think you are open to it, there is a surprisingly good reason to embrace the Scriptures and reject the generally accepted modern cosmology.
It’s evident, if anyone takes an honest look at the details, that we didn’t land on the moon (see the documentaries “American Moon” and “Astronauts Gone Wild”), that we can’t actually explore past the Van Allen radiation belts, etc. NASA has been caught faking “photos” and video so many times. Even the more recent “photos” on the entire earth are, as NASA’s Richard Simmon explained, a composite image. In other words, photoshop. See his interview about his 2002 image here:
www.nasa.gov/people-of-nasa/goddard-people/robert-simmon-aka-mr-blue-marble/
Also, the 2015 “blue marble”, another composite image, clearly has “sex” written in the clouds. See bottom left, upside down:
www.nasa.gov/image-article/nasa-captures-epic-earth-image/
There are also documented phenomenon that seem to point in the direction that the firmament is real. One such declassified mission “Operation Fishbowl” where they detonated high altitude missiles into what they called “the firmament”. It’s a fascinating document. There is a video showing the explosions too. Here is the document:
apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA469481.pdf
There is also the “lunar wave” documented now by a number of people, most notable Crrow777. See his documentary “Shoot the Moon”:
rumble.com/v5bihrv-shoot-the-moon-original-classic.html
Here’s a playlist of videos on the firmament. I haven’t watched them all but it might be helpful:
th-cam.com/play/PL9JK-HA6DrRGTiCESkQyPbSlIamq_xi12.html&si=Ni27hDvJ1vCbbxjk
I’d also suggest the TH-cam channel Taboo Conspiracy. Lots a fascinating videos of obersvations, whistleblowers, etc.
I hope this helps.
@OrthodoxWisdom are you a proponent of the Flat Earth model?
The Earth is Round and revolves around the sun. I don't even need science to assert this. Challenge me on this, and I will show you why you are wrong.
No it's not.
@@naikhanomtom7552 th-cam.com/video/_bHqBy92iGM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PHEZzOpr1g_lUsLq
There are at least 7 heavens. The Ascension of Isaiah and Testament of Abraham shows these heavens.
2 Corinthians 12:2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
You are right. There is 1 here under the Firmament where we have weather, there is 2.nd heaven that has 3 levels, and there Lucifer, the prince of the power of air abides, and there is the 3rd heaven, where Paul was, and that heaven also has 3 levels. That is altogether 7.
Iar în cerul unde zboară îngerii răi probabil sunt vămile văzduhului , pe care le întâlnește sufletul , care urcă prin aceste ceruri.
Are you kidding me. Geo centrism does not work and makes no sense whatsoever. St. John didn't know a thing about the cosmos!
Yeah jst cause somebody a long time ago says something doesn't automatically make it true, even if they were truly a holy person. The Church herself says that even the saints can get things wrong even about the faith sometimes.
@@tgrogan6049 cope
No offense, but it doesn't seem like you've inquired very deeply into the subject if you're prepared to write off the wisdom of the saints that quickly (they were unanimously geocentrists, so you're dismissing more than just "one holy person").
@@orthodox_soul - The early Christian Saints did not beleive in the flat earth of the Old Testament. The most modern scientific idea at the time of St John Chrysostom was that of Ptolemy, that described the independent motions of the stars, which several Saints mention (St Basil and St Hippolytus of Rome come to mind). Geocentrism was at least as old as Plato, as was the belief that the earth is round. These were the facts as known to them, so they accepted them in preference to the Jewish belief in the Old Testament of a flat earth, a solid, sky, waters above the sky, etc. No sane Orthodox believes that encyclopaedic knowledge was complete by the time of St John Chrysostom, that is just ridiculous.
@@nikolaosaggelopoulos8113 well, there's at least one major distinction between your train of thought and mine, as I am apparently one who is not numbered among the "sane Orthodox".
Your contention is that knowledge is in some way wholly contingent on human progress--hence your referring to "encyclopedic knowledge", in the sense that we can claim to know more than the saints according to our cumulative advancements in various fields of philosophy and science--while I, on the other hand, would not agree that knowledge is dependent on the current consensus of secular academia, but would be more inclined to defer to Divine Revelation as the basis of what we know + how we know it (i.e. the accessibility of the truth in its fullness is wholly at the disposal of even the most uneducated of men, immediately in the moment God Reveals it).
In my view, what's more silly is to believe that saints moved by the Spirit of God and who have attained to holiness can have detailed visions of the past (as the Creation narrative in Genesis was not liable to wait on the sciences to dictate what happened), and to believe the saints can have prophetic insights into the literal future as well, and can discern peoples thoughts and past actions by clairvoyance, can perform miraculous healings and can do all these inexplicable things by the power of God...yet, to assume the one thing they CAN'T do, is to have any worthwhile or well-informed insight into the nature of the Created order, despite their being directly connected to the supreme Source of all knowledge and wisdom. To me, that's what's ridiculous...
I believe their communion with God is more credible than the machinations of unbelieving men with their wildly speculative, unfalsifiable, naturalistic theories they seek to prove in order to justify ejecting God from their worldview by devising an origin story and a model of cosmology that precludes any supernatural explanation while still masquerading it all as a rational alternative under the guise of "science". If that makes me "not sane", then I suppose I'd rather be a fool. At least I'll be in good company.