Theosis: The True Purpose of Human Life - Part I
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2020
- Part I/II - This short treatise clearly and powerfully explains the true purpose of each and every human being: union with God, or Theosis. Fr. George (Kapsanis), former Abbot of the St. Gregorios Monastery on Mount Athos who reposed in the Lord on Pentecost 2014, presents the Orthodox understanding of Theosis and the essential path towards receiving this divine gift of God. In part I, he explains what Theosis is and how it is the aim of our life, examines the role of the Incarnation and the Theotokos in Theosis, and summarizes the importance of St. Gregory Palamas, the essence and energies distinction, and his affirmation of the true Orthodox teaching against the heresies of the Roman Catholics, Protestants, and non-Christian traditions. This is presented in a way that Orthodox Christians, Catechumens, and inquirers will be able to understand and respond in faith to God.
“If man cannot be deified with divine Grace and divine energies what purpose does his life have? Only that he becomes morally better. But moral perfection is not enough for man. It is not enough for us simply to become better than before, simply to perform moral deeds. We have as our final aim to unite with holy God Himself.” -Fr. George of Mount Athos
0:14 Preface
3:21 Theosis: The True Purpose of Human Life
9:40 The Incarnation of God: The Cause of Man’s Theosis
17:08 The Contribution of the Theotokos to the Theosis of Man.
22:30 The Church: The Place of Man’s Theosis
29:37 Theosis is Possible Through the Uncreated Energies of God
The text of this recording can be found here, and in many languages: orthodoxinfo.com/general/theos...
A reflection on the life and works of Fr. George by His Eminence Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos: www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2014...
This channel is dedicated to sharing the prayers, hymns, teachings, and service texts of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Glory to Jesus Christ!
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I began my journey to Orthodoxy 3 weeks ago. The more I learn about it the more excited I get about it and the more grateful I become that I have found the true Church. Thank you for this wonderful video on Theosis! I was completely ignorant of even the topic itself.
Thanks be to God! May God enrich you and enlighten you to prepare to enter His Church. Be sure and connect with a local parish and pray fervently for a true spiritual guide.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Be prepared that you might be in a parish that is excited about you then neglects you and leaves you on your own to study.
If you need affection or any human emotional support, be prepared to lean on Christ alone and prepare for a more or less monastic experience even as a laity. They seem to start you out suffering with little support right away. Yet seek the lives of the saints. You have chosen the road less traveled. Most of your formation will come from your reading and listening. A good homily. But do not expect attention.
You are pretty much on your own.
It is still the true faith. "See how these Christians love one another."
I'm still looking for that. But hey, you be that. You smile. Greet. Show God's love, even though you are starving for some fellowship, some counsel with a stoic priest. Don't give up. It is still the true way.
I have always been drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy (was raised non-denominational Protestant). I want to start the move to the Orthodox tradition in earnest here as well.
Glory to God! Please let us know if you need help finding a parish or priest, of if you have other questions. May God bless you abundantly on your path.
@@mysticape9386 Just know that Eastern Orthodoxy is a recent term as all Eastern Orthodox are in essence Greek Orthodox which has nothing to do with the country but the rite.
As a Protestant I must admit this is powerful, lucid and clear. It’s also a clear and compelling case for the veneration of Mary and seeing her as the new Eve.
In my journey of understanding Orthodoxy it seems that what we as Protestants see as symbolic, Orthodoxy views as real and ontological. For example being the body of Christ literally means we are the actual body of Christ. That’s definitely a far more serious take on what it means to be a Christian.
You’re on the right track. I was a Protestant for a few years before Orthodoxy and had a similar experience. Please let me know if you need help getting connected with a local priest or parish. Everything you read will make more sense and you’ll gain experiential knowledge, true knowledge, when you are living an Orthodox life, and you as an inquirer can do that to a limited but still consequential degree.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thanks!
@@OrthodoxWisdom I would love to ask you some things myself as a non-denominational Christian but please allow me to first watch this video and your second part. I come from Hindu background before Christ saved me and I gave my life to Him 9-10 months ago by a lifestyle of repentance and full trust in His perfect sinless life, death for our sins and His resurrection. Because of the pantheistic/polytheistic belief of Hinduism, I fear being misled however something within me has me interested in Orthodoxy in particular (even though I seem to disagree with some things but I'm unaware if that's my lack of understanding yet).
Glory to our Triune God, stay firm in Christ.
@@sathsojourns i can humbly recommend you the book " The Guru the disciple and father Paisios". I got lost a while in this new age, fruit of hinduism and started having issues with orthodox christian belief. This book helped me to return to Jesus's Church.
May God lead you❤️
@@mariaciobanica1451 Thank you so much for the recommendation, I will definitely give this a read. Glory to our Triune God, please keep me in your prayers as will I keep you in mine!
Truly He is risen!!!!
Amen!
So refreshing to see a comment that isn't I me mine my..
God became man so man can become God by grace.
0:19 Preface
3:23 Ch.1 The True Purpose of Life
9:44 Ch.2 The Incarnation
17:10 Ch.3 The Theotokos
22:32 Ch.4 The Church
29:39 Ch.5 Uncreated Energy
The clearest explanation I have heard for Theosis. Thank you.
This video is a very strong influence towards Orthodox Christianity for me. I'm not Orthodox but this is a great video in my opinion. The Orthodox church is so hard for me to accept and become a part of. Because of what I'm used to ftom my youth, as a protestant.
As a Catholic, I have always been curious of Orthodoxy
GLORY TO GOD FOR ALL THINGS!💓🔥👑
Thank you for this wonderful reading. This has got to be the best breakdown of theosis I've come across yet.
Keep up the great work brother, God bless.
Glory to God
Theosis by grace
Wonderful! I need to constantly be reminded of these things. ☦️♥️
So very ..very...very awesome...life saving...beautiful
And i like the narration..i like to "hear" the Word and Truth
Wonderful work brother 💕
May God give you as much grace as it is enough for you to reach theosis ❤️
This is awesome, thanks for reading this!
Only if we have ears to hear everything clear. Jesus Chris Son of God have mercy upon me.
Very grateful for these videos.
Thank you. Beautiful
Thank you for this wonderful words of wisdom!
So clear and helpful!
wonderful words of inspiration!
thank you brother ,God bless you
Thank you so much! I embrace this teaching wholeheartedly and praise God for this!
Great readings thank you
Thank you so much for offering this audio book. God bless your ministry!
Excellent ...
At the appointed time ,,,
Father will shatter our clay pot, our body , the LIGHT on the inside springs forth and Our Voices will be as a Voice of a Trumpet !
( Taking it back to the Garden )
Thank you !
Really good stuff here thank you
So good.
Incredible
Available to all men and women for free! Thankyou God for this true gift. I love you Lord, forgive me of my sins I beg you!
Love it! :)
This is so amazing. I am an orthodox but i havent herd the term theosis before. I guess i was very far from the Church. I am so excited for my journey with every day deep realization! May God help me and forgive my sins 🙌🏾
I...I I I
Let us feel THE LOVE
Please pray for me I left the Catholic church but I don't know Orthodox people. I need to find church where I belong.
Google for an Orthodox Church in your area
watch out for ecuminist priests. you need a real baptism even if they tell you otherwise.
I can reach theosis by the direction of my God at home. You do not need a third party to be close to God. You are already loved and led if you listen.
Never forget who Jesus pushed back against.
Though I do not attend an Eastern Orthodox Church, however, the doctrine of theosis should be pursued by every Christian believer. I also do study other orthodox doctrines.
Amen
Keep the Feasts of the Lord by the Spirit once for all time becoming a Temple made without hands .
( Cleans the temple )
God-man
I'm developing as a believer, making mistakes yes but I am interested in Orhtodoxy as it calls me.
Amen! We should shout this from the rooftops. Truth us hiding from priests too. Thus the flocks are uneducated and separated from God with narrow views stuck in traditions. It's painful to see this. We're marching to hell. As it is said, hell is filled with sincerely mistaken people (soul = psyche).
Incarnation of the divine logos
Yes, we need to be an example to others. Thing is, a toxic atmosphere is equivalent to the verse talking about a man who builds his house on sand, which weather erodes the sand, so the house collapses. Compared to a healthy atmosphere, as a house built on rock. Fertile ground where good fruit comes, vs. rotten land/soil, where only plants with thorns grow.
It is hard when we have our own sin to deal with, but it gives me a lot of motivation to do better, when I know I need to be there for those in the dark.
❤❤❤
Human have known for a long time that union with God is the purpose of man. They call this yoga in the east. It seems this has been forgotten on most of the followers of the Abrahamic faiths, glad to see the kabbalists, sufis, and eastern orthodox have not forgotten this.
Yoga is the pagan spiritual system whose purpose is to keep people in delusions away from the union with the One True God.
@@johnnyd2383 Where does the bible teach this? Seems like you are inventing your own beliefs that aren't in the bible.
@@adim00lah Bible warns us of worldly philosophies and teachings (Col 2, 8), (2 Tim 4, 3-4), (1 John 4, 1), (1 Tim 4, 1), etc. that pray on those who are unaware of the devil roaming around looking to devour them (1 Peter 5, 8). What is looks to me is that you have never read the Bible.
@d2383 Yoga is not a philosophy, it is a practice. Just like ayurvedic medicine is a practice, it doesn't mean if I take ashwaganda or some other form of ayurvedic treatment that I am going to hell. Yoga is used for healing the body, when did healing become idolatry?
The devil cannot do healing, only God heals. Since you try to claim you are so much more knowledgeable than me, show me an example of a demon healing in the bible, I'll wait.
@@adim00lah Baloney.! Go to Wikipedia and educate yourself... Yoga philosophy is one of the six major orthodox schools of Hindu philosophy, though it is only at the end of the first millennium CE that Yoga is mentioned as a separate school of thought in Indian texts, distinct from Samkhya. Ancient, medieval and most modern literature often refers to Yoga-philosophy simply as Yoga.
18:14 Failure to take responsibility for one’s own actions isn’t something that God would condone.
The Cathechism of the (Roman) Catholic Church speaks of 'deifying grace' , the 'gratuitous gifts that God makes to us of his own life (CCC 1999), and also says that this grace is 'a participation in the life of God' (CCC1997) and also quotes St Athanasius, saying 'By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature... For this reason those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized' .
Well I appreciate you sharing that. That helps us understand more about the Roman Catholic position
@@OrthodoxWisdom Grace is a free gift from God
Unfortunately that doesn’t work. If grace is a created effect, then it is infinitely below God and totally unlike him, as he is eternal and uncreated. It must be uncreated. So if we assume grace is uncreated and able to be participated in, then it’s either one of two things:
1. The divine essence
2. The energies or operations of God that are themselves God
It can’t be the essence as it’s not possible to participate in the Essence of God, the fathers are unanimous on this. So it must be option 2.
Option 2 from Devin's reply is very traditional and does indeed help us to avoid any confusion between that which is creaturely on the one hand and the divine essence on the other.
❤
What is the title of the painting in the video?
EDIT: It's by Yuri Andreyev and it's called Faith Under Rubble
I wish I knew. Maybe someone else can help answer.
There is no way to separate from God! That is why by trying we begin to suffer and die. Even as we try to find life by cutting Him away, He is continually in us as a painful reminder he is life. He is always our very life. There is no life without God. Just the delusion it is so!
God have mercy.
What painting is this?
Without Theosis man can't improve morally and become better.
Man has to first become a receptor of God's Grace, and be ressurected as a new and transfigured living being- then and only then can the condition of man be improved.
Pray for m3
I'm wondering if you can tell me what this painting is which you've used as a background for the video? It looks like someone I know.
I don’t know I just know a soldier is depicted standing before the icon
I've been looking for this painting too.
@@OrthodoxWisdom How did you find it? A search with the words, "soldier before icon of theotokos painting" just brings up a myriad of actual icons.
Id take the photo and do a google image search with it.
I wonder how much of Orthodox is also affected by eastern religion, because it kinda makes sense from geographical perspective. And that might also explain why of all Christianity, Orthodox is the most saturated with mysticism. Buddhist strive to reach Nirvana, Orthodox strive toward Theosis, some parallels can be drawn as both of them conclude that the ultimate goal is the perfecting or ascension/transcendence of the soul, not just an admittance into some place of paradise.
Orthodox believe that all worldly spiritual concepts have it's origins in the original faith in One God Creator of the Universe and then under the evil works they drifted away by inventing false gods. However, some remnants of the once correct belief in the true Creator can be found in every one of those now false spiritual concepts. Western mind on the contrary, went Gnostic way trying to understand incomprehensible God through the means of rationalism and other mental exercises.
Thank you for the video! I am an inquirer. Can no longer align with baptist theology. Still, Im confused about Orthodox soteriology. I KNOW I experienced God's energy IN me when I confessed Christ as Lord 4 years ago. Not every one has this experience, I know. But it seems that this also happened to St. Mary of Egypt. My problem is, why dont the Orthodox acknowledge or talk about the possibility of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit prior TO baptism?
Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit prior to Baptism would inevitably lead the one to the Lord's Church - EOC, only place where Baptism exists as a valid Holy Sacrament. If one claims to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit and yet remains defiant to the existence of the Lord's Church, the original claim is to be in question. Holy Spirit will never leave the one outside of the Church where there is no salvation. All those inquirers into the EOC have been touched by the Holy Spirit and are thus instigated to seek salvation in the Church.
where can I buy this book in English? I find it fascinating an challenging
The description says that ithe book teaches against the "heresies of Roman Catholicism" but I have yet to encounter anything in it that is opposed to Catholicism. What distinctions does the author seek to establish?
From the text: "Until now, Westerners have considered that
divine Grace, or the energy of God, is something created. Unfortunately, this is one of the many differences which must be seriously taken into consideration in theological dialogues with the Roman Catholics. It is not only the filioque, the primacy of power, and the “infallibility” of the Pope which are basic differences between the Orthodox Church and the Papists. It is also the above. If the Roman Catholics do not accept that the Grace of God is uncreated, we cannot unite with them even if they accept all the other points. For who is able to effect Theosis if divine Grace is a creation and not an uncreated energy of the All-Holy Spirit?"
I know there are some Roman Catholics who disagree with this assessment, but as I understand it, this is what Aquinas and other Latin theologians have dogmatically taught, and Orthodoxy clearly rejects such dogmas as referenced above.
@@OrthodoxWisdomThank you very much. But we both know that a theologian cannot teach dogma. Only the Magisterium can establish dogma. Can you point to two clearly opposed dogmas on this key subject?
I understand that. Two things: St. Gregory Palamas and his teachings have entered into the Orthodox liturgical services, primarily seen in that he is celebrated this coming Sunday which we call "Sunday of St. Gregory Palamas." This is not only celebrating the great Saint, but when theology and Saints enter into our prayers and hymns, as you can see this coming Sunday, it means that this is our theology. There are some minor exceptions, such as how we don't affirm all of Blessed Augustine's theology, but he is celebrated by the Church in hymns but the errors he made are not put into hymnography. An Orthodox principle is: want to know our theology? Prayer our services.
Also, just this week Fr. Peter Heers gave a lecture detailing the 8th Oecumenical council which shows that the entire Church, including Rome, embraced the council in 879-880 (also called Constantinople IV) and only later rejected it after 200 years. This council taught that the creed cannot be changed (no filioque) and implicitly showed that Rome does not have universal jurisdiction. Take a listen and I think you'll get a good answer to your question: th-cam.com/video/6J71iEkTsws/w-d-xo.html
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you for sharing, brother.
@@OrthodoxWisdom the reason why the Catholic and Orthodox Church split is because of issues with money and power. Dogma is just the scapegoat
" The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in His divinity, assumed our nature, so that He, made man, might make men gods" (St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57 : 1-4) Taken from Called to be children of God, The Catholic Theology of Human Deification, edited by Fr David Meconi, S.J. and Carl E. Olson. Ignatius Press.
Nobody doubts that. However it becomes entirely impossible because God is only Essence. So there’s no way to partake of the Divinity. The best you will get is created effects of Divinity which isn’t God, but a creature.
@@devinlawson2208 www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/are-we-gods. Hope you find this link useful.
kind regards
John
St. Athanasius an Egyptian by birth and Greek by education said this centuries before Aquinas. He was one of the first Desert Fathers and spoke about this and many other points in his book, 'On The Incarnation!" It was around the 318 or so I think! Anyone. Thanks for sharing!
@@devinlawson2208 please look into the energies and essence concept in Orthodoxy, it may help clarify.
💒✨
@@noway165 I am Orthodox and believe in the EED. I was making a rhetorical point to the comment above.
2:10 could someone please explain what he means by “called to be gods.” Does he mean “God’s” or “gods?” Forgive me if this is a simple question.
We are called to be godlike
@@maxwelljarman7785
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’? John 10:34
I take it to mean we were like that before the fall, and are intended to return to that state through Christ.
They are called to be gods
Yes, you do know not as used in secular thought???
These teachings seem to disagree with Sars cov2 lockdowns of society and prohibition of holding church services. Any comment to share on that situation? I believe it is horrible for the state to dictate how the church should function but perhaps it is acceptable to accommodate the virus situation when necessary.
I agree that these teachings, if followed, do not lead to many, if not all, of the measures taken in churches. I can’t offer better answers than what Fr. Peter has taught us. If you haven’t already, check out The Orthodox Ethos, and specifically this video from April 2020: th-cam.com/video/q5D7qbKzoaA/w-d-xo.html
Also watch his interview here from April 2021: th-cam.com/video/IUykHLxcVJw/w-d-xo.html
You can find a long list of resources here: www.orthodoxtalks.com/section-one/
There is much that can be said on this topic, but don’t forget prayer and patience. Let me know if this was helpful.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you for the reply! I didn't get the notification unfortunately, so I will check out the links you shared. Have a great weekend!
God desires us to be gods? I know the orthodox are not polytheists. Perhaps the explanation for this matter hasn't been fully elaborated yet in the video.
Perhaps. Consider that St. Peter says to his flock, “through these [graces] you may become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4). Becoming a god (Psalm 82:6) does not mean we become equal with God, but joint heirs (Rom 8:17) fully united and divinized by God. Also, this is not at all the heretical Mormon teaching where we are ontologically the same as Christ. Christ remains unique and far beyond us, yet of course, we are given the most precious opportunity to draw close to Him.
You can also look for more sources here: orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/inq_salvation.aspx
@@OrthodoxWisdom thank you. I think my comment here was more of a knee jerk reaction.
Polytheism and monotheism are words invented by atheists in an attempt to lump religions together. Orthodox Christians are not monotheistic by the strict definition. Rather, we believe in every god. Only one is worthy of worship.
@@OrthodoxWisdom A God who would allow His children to become His equals (that's what joint heirship means) would be a more powerful & more loving God that would be more worthy of our worship than a God who could not.
I don't think that people, when labeling the doctrine as "heretical" realize they are unwittingly limiting God's grace and placing artificial limits on Him that He has not placed on himself.
This is why the Orthodox version of Theosis can't really be defined with any specificity - only described in vagaries.
Appreciate your thoughts on this-
How available are these teachings in the Orthodox Churches in Canada?
It would be very disappointing if TH-cam is the only place I can find something good.
There are Orthodox parishes and monasteries in Canada that teach and live the truth. You can look here at this website or let me know generally where you are in Canada and I can suggest specific priests to see. I don’t live in Canada but I know a few people who do and can ask them for recommendations
orthodoxyinamerica.org
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you.
The website shows a church to a Parish not too far (Kelowna, I live in Vernon, an hour away) but if you know someone specifically, I would like to meet them.
Ok thank you. I reached out to my friend in BC, Fr. Mikhail Baleka, and he said he’d be happy to help you connect with others closest to you. Please reach out to him: livingorthodoxmedia@gmail.com
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you
This is beautiful teaching, as is so much that comes from the holy mountain. It might be helpful for listeners to know that Roman Catholics do believe in theosis, and it is mentioned daily in the Roman liturgy, even if as in some parts of the Orthodox world, it is not as well appreciated as it should be.
Correct me if I am wrong, since I’m not an expert on Catholicism, but I assume they have a form of Theosis, and would affirm some of our teachings on Theosis, but have distinctive differences which make their teaching not able to fully heal the soul. When I read from Fr. George that the West has no doctrine of Theosis, I assumed he meant it more in this way.
@@OrthodoxWisdom I am a Catholic myself, and yes I understand that most orthodox believe that our church has serious deficiencies which place us even outside salvation. Obviously I don't agree entirely! We do have problems, as do most Christian denominations. Even though I see defects in the way that orthodoxy is lived, there is much in orthodox teaching that is wonderful, and often a good counterbalance to some emphases among Catholics
Forgive me if I have this wrong, but I think the Orthodox position on Catholicism is essentially this: there are things the Catholics have done, starting about 1000 years ago, that have intrinsically altered the Faith to the point that they can no longer be called Christian in the purest sense, since some of the teachings are heresy. However, at the same time, we understand there are many God-fearing Catholics who deeply long for God and that God, being all-merciful and loving beyond imagination, may see their faith and efforts and reward them for it. This is the tension that I believe we are called to hold on to when considering Roman Catholics. Forgive me if that is an incorrect explanation. And forgive us for our often cold hearts towards Catholics. We share much in common with you and pray for you to join us once again.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Yes, i think that sums up the Orthodox position as I have picked it up. I think that in the last 50 years or so RC's have, in the work of theologians and church teaching, done a lot of work to recover the broader vision of the first millennium, and also recognize many weaknesses that arose in the last 1000 years in the West (the West needs the East!! in my view). The best of RC theology and preaching is actually much closer to Orthodoxy than most people realize, and at times I do get tired of Orthodox teachers criticizing approaches that are mostly gone in the best of our current teaching. I do recognize that there are still major difficulties, especially the papacy and the filioque. As a RC monk I particularly enjoy reading Orthodox monastic texts precisely because they are free of many of the weaknesses of recent centuries in our tradition. I did read some interesting work by an orthodox theologian suggesting that both East and West went too far in the filioque controversy. A high ranking Vatican official once said in my hearing that, when it comes to the question of papal infallibility, another church council was needed to sort out the problems. He also recounted a casual remark of the late pope John Paul II in Eastern Europe where he once said, 'I have no interest in jurisdiction over the East. It's difficult enough trying to govern the West!' It is also clear to me that Pope Francis is working hard to decentralize authority in the RCC to a more synodal approach. I know these are only small informal words and slow moves, but they show that the RC position is evolving, perhaps more than Orthodox realize. I recognize that there are still stumbling blocks in our church life that are too big for the Orthodox to allow and I appreciate that you want to protect something very precious. On the other hand, I would love to visit a place like Mount Athos but am afraid to because I hear stories of RC people being badly treated. A famous RC saint (at least that's what we call him) was once criticized for being too friendly to Protestants and he replied, 'You catch more flies with a jar of honey than a jar of vinegar'. But thank you for your kind and respectful message.
I realise that I shared my mind rather freely in that lengthy last reply. And if there is anything there that is offensive to an Orthodox reader, please forgive me.
5:17-5:18...he is the only one who can become a God ...did i hear correctly?
Yes, he is saying man ("he") is the only creature who can become a god.
The Theotokos is called more honorable than the cherubim and more glorious than the seraphim, because an angel came and wrote and/or said that.
Protestant here. Every evangelical explanation for Psalm 82 & John 10:34 is lacking.
I’m at the point where I’m not afraid to be labeled with the ‘little gods’ heresy, because Theosis just makes way too much sense to ignore. Especially since it’s alluded to throughout the entire Bible.
Bros… am I about to become Orthodox? 😅 I might have to, because I can’t get this missing piece in the evangelical church, and it seems huuuuge.
I will say one error in this video is this, on the subject on the highest value of the protestant christian is growing relationship with God not to just being morally better, i was raised in the CRC, practice this in the pentecostal currently and raised by family with this value. I think the difference in many protestant churchs can be around this issue (some the speaker is correct in saying they just morally better themselfs) but churches who don't keep this main purpose in mind cease to be a church.
Wow..enlightened!!
So are the Energies of God..... The Holy Spirit?
The energies of God are God Himself but they are not the essence of God. And there are a variety of energies, all God but not all affecting creation, especially humans, in the same ways. St. Maximus the Confessor has a great, short teaching on this: th-cam.com/video/G0Budc4ib8I/w-d-xo.html
@Orthodox Wisdom is then one of the energies the HS? Or rather how does orthodox doctrine define the HS?
@@OrthodoxWisdom ok watched the super heavy vid you recommended. Basically, the answer is yes, the energies of God are the HS. If I´ve misunderstood, I´ll be glad to receive a clarification
Why is Mary called god after God?
As Fr. George said:
“God comes to earth and to men through her, because He became man through the Theotokos. She is ‘the bridge by which God descended,’ and again, ‘she who conducts those of earth to Heaven,’ the Platytera of the Heavens, the space of the uncontainable, who contained the uncontainable God within herself for our salvation.”
To say she is “god after God” is to say that she is the greatest of all the saints. Like the other saints, she did not unite with God’s essence and did not have a divine nature as did the Lord, but she is the vehicle through which the Incarnation occurred for our salvation. She bore within herself the Lord who was one in essence with the Father, and our Lord received His human nature from her.
Disagreed until I read where jesus said "know ye are Gods"
smaller g
@@mbzk I think you're right
2:18
Wait wait wait wait, what?? What do you mean we are called to be gods????
God "Lives"(IF WE ALLOW HIM) "Through/via Us"(Our "Being"). This Same Activity Jesus Accomplished "FOR God"(NOT "himself"). The "Only Difference" being THIS FACT... "Jesus Was KING". And "The King MUST Die"! This is "The Price" to be paid by "ANY MAN" should he decide/agree to "Become Our Servant(slave) For Seven Years As Our King". "King Of This World For Seven Years And The PRICE HE IS WILLING TO PAY Is HEROISM". We could Trust someone like this to not be selfishly motivated. Especially when there is a ongoing "screening process" occurring during the reign of Our First "Duly Elected" King. He gets to know(and decide) who it is that will "follow in his footsteps" just the same as Jesus did.
Fili, Redemptor mundi, Deus, (God the Son, Redeemer of the world,
miserere nobis. (Have mercy on us.)
Sanguis Christi, sine quo non fit remissio, (Blood of Christ, without which there is no forgiveness,)
Salva nos. (Save us.)
The purpose of the life is to be healthy and free. Initialy God made everybody somewhere healthy and free, and from the sins appear the body illnesses.
No.
@@xxFairestxx you film in XX movies?
@@CM-sj9pb No. What is an XX movie?
One thing people say that iritates me, is that man is naturally evil, or pure evil. That is not the case. If man were, by his very nature, pure evil through and through, then the coming of Christ would have been pointless, as one, in this hypothetical situation, could not expect man to ever uphold his commandments. Yet men have done it before, and they're still upholding them. Man is arrogant, and ignorant at times, but not "evil". They base their philosophy off of the actions of individuals from history, hitler and stalin for example. But they seem to forget that the majority of humans throughout our existence, have lived quiet lives, many of which had never transgressed against another man, well... not a harshly as say hitler or stalin. This is the plague that ills our society. The rejection of the fact that man is holy in his origin, and was made in Gods image. He is nothing more, in there eyes, but an evil blight, they profess a hidden Nihilism, meant to remove man from himself and God, and make him destroy himself... Such men should be looked upon with constant suspicion and caution. For they are no better then those they claim to despise.
Man is not born evil, but we're fallen.
Correct and agree. If you disagree that the nature of man is not evil, then the only way you could be a Christian is in the Orthodox Church.
Which is also the main reason why I am Orthodox. ☦️
I’m a Catholic, I do not know that it is Catholic teaching that God’s grace is created. It seems obvious to me it is uncreated.
Except veneration of Mary.... I totally agree with Orthodox teachings as a Potestent and a Bible reader I don't agree veneration of Mary.
Theotokos Mary is member of our Church Triumphant and since we, Church Militant, are the ONE with them and them with us, we can ask them to intercede for us before God just as we can ask someone standing next to us during services to do the same. Veneration of our Triumphant brothers and sisters is not the same as worshipping of One True God. We venerate them as those who have made it and we ought to repeat their success hoping that we will be accepted as members of the Church Triumphant.
We are called to be gods? It's funny because I've seen Orthodox priests and monks give talks where they insist that this is not true. They say this is slander of Orthodoxy, which invites union with the energies of God and has nothing to do with our essence. Now we have someone who was an Abbot on the famed Mount Athos saying straight up that we are called to BE gods. So there's an authority figure within Orthodoxy saying precisely the thing that other Orthodox authorities say is an outside slander of the church. Which is it?
Fr. George is clear that we are called to become gods by grace through His uncreated energies but that we do not unite with, nor partake of, God’s essence.
“But as God has the divine energies, and unites with us by these energies, we are able to commune with Him and to unite with His Grace without becoming identical with God, as would happen if we united with His essence. So we unite with God through His uncreated energies, and not through His essence.”
Can you provide quotes and references to Orthodox saints who you say contest this teaching?
Why is Orthodox the best religion in Europa Universalis 4?
Because Orthodoxy is the only true religion anywhere
m.th-cam.com/play/PLG8ujnM0COm6TzQc8YwjQzYEizTOX4bkC.html
@@OrthodoxWisdom Muslims say Islam is...everyone says their own is...who should I believe now? This is so ridiculous. In reality, all religions tell from the absolute in other words that is only the absolute, there is no second.
Jesus Christ said “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to Father but by Me.”
The Orthodox Christian Church takes this at face value. As Christ also said, “All that came before me are thieves and robbers.” Either Christ is lying, crazy, or telling the most essential truth for each one of us.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thank you for your quick answer. I think when Christ said 'I am' he meant the universal 'I am', the one we are affected by right now and through which we go to the father by contemplating our existence before god, because aren't we meant to follow the way of Christ? I think people from other religious traditions are doing something similar through meditation or recitation of their specific texts.
Also the First Testament is without Christ but with god, so this means everyone who never heard of Christ had no chance to be saved?
Theotokos
Honestly, except for Filioque, I don't see much difference in doctrine betw Trad Catholics and Orthodoxy. With Cats, Original Sin is a "predisposition'" to choose one'own will than God's; Orth defines it as a "weakening" of man. With Cats, Grace is a gift from God Himself, not going further beyond that; Orth defines Grace as the Energy of God, not the Essence (which is deeper). Theosis is similar to attaining "Perfection" among Catholics., ETC. It is a battle of Semantics. But the Filioque, and the ensuing Papal Supremacy and Infallibility doctrine must truly be corrected in Cats...for their own good.
If theosis is a process/journey are the Sacraments just symbols? I thought that Baptism made you a little Christ (i.e. God) and that Ordination made you another Christ (i.e. God).
God became man that man would become God - with a capital "G" - as God can not be divided.
The Sacraments are not merely symbols, they are first and foremost manifestations of Christ’s incarnation into a human being. While a person “puts on Christ” at baptism and receives Him into his soul and body when receiving the Eucharist, we don’t then cease to be our individual human selves. We also only receive God’s grace according to our faith or lack thereof. It may be useful to consider the Orthodox life a paradox: you receive God into you but your sinful self needs to suffer day after day to actualize in oneself what he has received. The Christian life is not magic, and not automatic. We must repent every day, we must have real trust in God and depend on Him for our everything.
Furthermore, read the pdf of the text here (link in the description): in Theosis, a man becomes a god by God’s grace. We do not become God (that would be Mormonism) but rather become “partakers of the Divine Nature” (2 Peter 1:4). The saints (those glorified and those not glorified but known by God) remain human while being fully united with Christ. We will never know God in His essence, or become God in His essence, but we can know God in His energies, which are fully God, and thereby become saints, or gods by grace. I hope this helps.
@@OrthodoxWisdom........ So, God is Other and what the early Church Fathers said is untrue. ---- that men can be God. There is always a gulf between man and God. And the sacraments do not confer Godship as the infant has no faith. And the man who is ordained is not "another Christ". These are just words that sound good.
Where do the Fathers say man becomes “God” rather than “god?” If they do, I do not believe it is in the sense that you are implying. I certainly see them saying we can become “God” in the sense that St. Paul says “no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me” where the human person is still distinct from God in their essences, but united as one (through God’s energies). The human person still maintains their ontological nature and does not become God as God is ontologically.
You’re right to point out that an infant does not have faith like an adult, but rather they have a faith in their own way, and are incorporated into Christ by grace. I don’t feel prepared to accurately explain the role of faith in an infant’s baptism.
The candidate for ordination does become another Christ, but not ontologically. The Church talks of many things that have layers of meaning. The new priest maintains his human nature, becomes part of the continuation of the incarnation (i.e. the Church) in a new and particular way, and especially when serving the Mysteries, he is Christ to us. Again, layers of meaning within certain theological boundaries.
@@OrthodoxWisdom There are thousands of references from the Fathers who all claimed that men can be God. You make it so complicated when the Church Fathers made it so simple.
Show us then. I am not an authority on the matter, but what I have shared is what I have learned from various sources. Your teaching appears to be a simplistic, surface level reading that doesn’t allow for the nuance and distinctions that must be made in order to understand the Fathers in context. But if I am wrong, I wish to know.
Pope shenouda III denied this teaching calling itbheresy . Why he do that?
He needs an orthodox priest!
It probably stems from christology. They are monothelites and monoenergists. So if there isn’t a deified human nature in Christ then we can’t actually participate in it, and so forth.
Theosis is incompatible with Catholicism because they believe in divine simplicity as taught by Aquinas. You know, the guy who couldn't read Greek.
Can someone please explain to me why are called to be gods?
It really bothers me, i am a new Orthodox.
There can only be one God, i don't want to be god, even if i may still be below the true god.
Only he is God ☦️
We aren’t in any way saying what the Mormans say which is that we will become God’s of our own planet like Heavenly Father is of this planet. Rather, by participating in Christ, we become so infused with His energies, which are God Himself, that we act so fully in accordance with God and in obedience to God. God is always God, but just as God took on human nature and remained God, we can take on the deifying energies of God and remain human. The life of the saints, especially in the next life, is so deeply united with God that we say they become “God by grace.” But remember, these are mere human expressions for a divine, supra-rational reality.
There’s also the difference between God and god.
Basis of Orthodox doctrine of Deification/Theosis is scriptural: "I said, Ye are gods, and all of you sons of the Most High." (psalm 82, 6) We are called to become gods by God' s Grace through perfect union with Him who is God by His nature. Our union with God in Orthodoxy is seen as a blend of our human nature with the God's nature in a same way sugar dissolves in a water and become ONE with the water so it is indistinguishable from it (John 17, 21-24). We are called to partake in a divine nature (2 Peter 1, 4) in a way already explained. Our union with the God does not make multiple God's, as we are gods only if we are in union with Him. Incarnation of the Son of God made it all possible as His human nature was in union with His divine nature in a way we are called and ought to unionize with Him. That is why St. Athanasius wrote: "The Word was made flesh in order that we might be made gods." Another example Orthodox use to explain our union with the God - When we throw a peace of iron into the fire, after while it becomes indistinguishable from the surrounding embers in color and glow... however it is not consumed by the fire and does not become the embers in essence but remains iron.
Heterodox view of the unity of humans with the God is more alike mix of the water and oil in which oil remains separated from water never blending into it. Thus they speak about the Sanctification instead. Hope this helps. God bless.!
You can never become the same essence as God. But you can surely be raised to become a *more* Godlike being. That’s all it’s saying.
God is the ultimate. Nobody can be God but God.
But you can be made another step closer to God’s likeness, maybe at the same level as the angels, but not to the level of God himself.
Hope that helps.
@@mark0bravo Humans are created lower than angels but our final state is above angels as they have never been offered Sonship. Also, Orthodox doctrine of Theosis does not talk about "likeness" but about becoming gods by Grace. That is far closer than "likeness".
Logosophi
Wait. Become God/a god? How is this not heresy
These are the teachings of the original church. Whatever you believe is heresy.
Ontologically
There is no salvation outside the Church..
Panagia
Both the Western churches and the Orthodox churches emphasise their differences and unfortunately as righteous as it may seem this results in the tearing of Jesus Christ’s body.
Salvation belongs to all that truly seek The Holy Spirit. The message is crystal clear that unites all Christians, that we truly repent and allow God’s spirit to dwell within us. The message tearing us apart is that we cannot accept that our denomination is more correct than other Christian denominations. When the disciples of Jesus came to Christ and said others are preaching in your name he did not rebuke them as the disciples had. Which church do you suppose was more true , the Orthodox Church or Christ himself teaching his disciples? Jesus Christ was humbler than the Western or Eastern church. There is no salvation in pride which is disguised as truth. There is only one truth and there is only one peace and that is we truly be born again and we partake in all the Holy sacraments. When the 2 condemned men on the cross made their decision to either accept or reject the truth was the deciding factor of salvation beyond any of the sacraments.
My best response is to advise you to follow the Saints. They greatly desired unity, and did many things to bring it about, but unity based on heresy and falsehood is not a unity pleasing to God. The Orthodox Church is Christ’s Body, and the hard truth is that there is only one Body of Christ. We don’t know the end of someone’s life, but we know that Christ establish a holy community, and that community has made Christ manifest in the world. The Orthodox Church alone is both Divine and Human, as Christ the God-man is.
@@OrthodoxWisdom "On this Rock, I shall build my Church"
The 1st Pope is St. Peter and last Pope is Pope Francis.
According to the prophecies of Catholic saints, the Orthodox Church will reconcile with the Catholic Church in the end times.
@@alfredhitchcock45 how come James presided over the council of Jerusalem and Peter was wrong? How come Jesus gives all the apostles the same authority as Peter 2 chapters later in Matthew 18? How come no patriarch of the East understood papal infallibility, and chalcedon Canon 9 made constantinople the head of the hierarch where disputes between bishops and metropolitans would be tried? If papal infallibility was true why did the Catholic church accept filioque after Pope John VIII and Pope Leo III rejected it and said anathema to anyone who adds or subtracts from the creed? Why did only 13% of early patristics and saints interpret the rock to be Peter? And the rest thought it was either Jesus or Peter's confession? I'd suggest you watch some of ubi Petrus's videos and check out their website. And also check out the catholicism videos in this playlist - m.th-cam.com/play/PLG8ujnM0COm6TzQc8YwjQzYEizTOX4bkC.html
@@alfredhitchcock45 the papacy was political, the franks and cia subverted it, and freemasons subverted Vatican 2. Why did the Roman church create so many forgeries (such as donation of constantine) to support papal supremacy if it was already true and recognised by everyone?
@@OrthodoxWisdom Shouldn't everyone who is baptist, be in union with Christ? No matter who was the author of the baptism. 1 Corinthians 3:4
Why didn't the didache specifically said, only priest and bishops with apostolic succession could consagrate the eucharist?
I see no point in limiting the grace of our lord do to the vanity of man. Theosis is by grace through faith. Not by grace through man.
This is what the serpent used in the garden to beguile Eve. It's part of an ecumenical world religion as most religions teach this including Wicca and occult religions. It's no coincidence that "Mary and baby Jesus" are in the thumbnail, as the divine feminine is also part of most of the worlds religions. We're seeing the religion of the ecumenical antichrist being formed in front of our very eyes! Repent of your unbelief and believe on Jesus Christ alone for the remission of sins and eternal life. Please read the third chapter of John.
Please learn some church history.
If Christ is the way back to God, the whole essence vs energies issue seems irrelevant. Because Christ himself is the Bridger of the gap, not energies.
As soon as God took on flesh he no longer was unapproachable, and distant. It seems his essence is approachable, in Christ.
Dividing essence from energies seems to mean there's some part of God we cannot enjoy, and God isn't occultic as he has revealed himself clearly in Christ.
This is a big topic and requires much more prayer and learning than my short response can give you. There are some useful videos online detailing why this matters. Basically, the human is saved by union with Christ, by being a “partake of the Divine Nature” (2 Peter 1:4). Since God’s essence is eternally unapproachable and unknowable in its truest sense, God brings us into union with Himself through His energies, which are no less God than God. His energies are what the disciples saw on Mt. Tabor, how the paralytic received his healing, and how the faithful fulfill the words of the Lord, “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:54). I hope this helps.
@@OrthodoxWisdom
Thanks for the response. What relation do God's energies have with His grace?
A direct one. God’s grace is His energies, manifest in various ways, each energy being uncreated and God Himself.
@@OrthodoxWisdom
Thanks!
@Orthodox Wisdom
Where do I begin? For Catholics, as asserted by Father George of Mount Athos, believes in created Divine grace at 40:05? That's so misleading. Catholics are not Arians. We don't believe in created grace. If we believe that, we also believe in created Christ because all grace comes from Christ. To believe in created grace or/and created Christ is Arianism. For this reason the author saying that the main difference between Catholics and Orthodox is this understanding of grace is so mischaracterization of the Orthodoxy of Catholic faith.
Now in saying that, grace, in Catholic teaching, means Divine life or God's own life. If that's the case, then how on earth then Catholics who believe in "God from God, Light from Light" believe in created divine life or, in the authors favourite word, energies? Such teaching is quite misleading. Catholics would and do accept everything that is written here except those words at 40:05.
Catholics believes in Theosis in its full form. That is what means to be a saint i.e. one who is fully interiorize the gift of faith m, united in love with Uncreated living God and His Uncreated Divine Life through and in the Son, Jesus Christ, Perfect God and Perfect Man, perfect unity in Hypostatic Union of God and man.
So, like I said above, beautiful teaching by the author but quite misleading. And yet, it has to be admitted even if what is written by the author of that text, it is clear and is to the point. It is written without so much emphasizing on our sinful nature as to make it impossible to be able unite with God's Uncreated Grace. Other than that everything written here we Catholics believe and accept that we are called and baptized to be sons and daughters and be "heirs with Jesus Christ" as St. Paul teaches us. Being children of God means revealing our theosis thru the process of spiritual excercises more interiorly thru kenosis and, of course, thru the Holy Sacraments especially the Holy Communion by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
The monks of Mt. Athos do seem to take a stubborn position regarding the Roman Catholic church (and many other things, I presume). Other Orthodox thinkers are more doctrinally generous -- even going so far as to accept the dual-procession of the Spirit, from a devotional perspective at least. Please accept my apologies on behalf of arrogant Orthodox christians who cross your path; and I beg your forgiveness for any offense we cause when we stand with our most stubborn teachers. If the faith were entrusted to my defense, I fear I would have lost it long ago. God bless, pray for me and I'll pray for you 🤗
@@joachim847
Thanks Joachim for your kind words. "Let them be one as we are One" prayed Our Lord and Saviour. For this to happen, we must have a willing heart and mind. May the Lord Himself have mercy on us and may we see the day when there will be one Catholic-Orthodox Church to the praise and glory of the living GOD.
@@patri1689 Amen!!
@@patri1689 Denzinger list created effects as the Salvific grace as the roman catholic dogma. You don't experience the uncreated glory but a created Glory
@@joachim847 Don't coddle their errors they made it their dogma and they have to live with it
Someone should tell the superheroes to try communion with God to be god
Wonder Woman is very close because she stands up for the Truth (1984)
I don't get this theosis thing. Become God? Literally? That sounds crazy.
Basis of Orthodox doctrine of Deification/Theosis is scriptural: "I said, Ye are gods, and all of you sons of the Most High." (psalm 82, 6) We are called to become gods by God' s Grace through perfect union with Him who is God by His nature. Our union with God in Orthodoxy is seen as a blend of our human nature with the God's nature in a same way sugar dissolves in a water and become ONE with the water so it is indistinguishable from it (read: John 17, 21-24). We are called to partake in a divine nature (2 Peter 1, 4) in a way already explained.
Our union with the God does not make multiple God's, as we are gods only if we are in union with Him. Incarnation of the Son of God made it all possible as His human nature was in union with His divine nature in a way we are called and ought to unionize with Him. That is why St. Athanasius wrote: "The Word was made flesh in order that we might be made gods."
Another example Orthodox use to explain our union with the God - When we throw a peace of iron into the fire, after while it becomes indistinguishable from the surrounding embers in color and glow... however it is not consumed by the fire and does not become the embers in essence but remains iron.
Heterodox view of the unity of humans with the God is more alike mix of the water and oil in which oil remains separated from water never blending into it. Thus they speak about the Sanctification instead.