🔵Testing Oxalic acid vapor on a hive with a 33% infestation! 5 treatments in 21 days will it work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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Disclaimer: Don't let colonies get to this high of an infestation. More often than not this results in a lost hive, reinfestation of your other hives, reinfestation your neighbor's hives, and/or you going thru the various stages of grief and may result in binging on ice cream, buying unnecessary bee equipment, and in some extreme cases, crying with your fellow beekeeping anonymous group.
Nothing wrong with some ice cream. :-)
8.2K channel keeps a growing...Great info on videos..Keep them coming.
Thanks Lakeleon!
Wonderful video, Kamon. Your approach to this issue is absolutely correct and by all means, is backed by science and common sense husbandry.
Kamon, I came upon a very interesting video that you need to watch.
th-cam.com/video/T7CB8E7jKBc/w-d-xo.html
It makes me rethink how we select queens. If we are to build up resistance to varroa mites we need to be selecting queens that show resistance and requeening colonies that don't have it. If we increase selection pressure we decrease the time it will take to build up resistance. When doing a mite count you would record the mite load and use colonies with low mite counts for making queens. Listen to the video and think about what he said about tricheomites (SP) and how bees adapted to them.
Que at May 16 2022 and mine Bee don’t have honey is ok to do Know? I’m at North Georgia
Hy Kamon, i am from Portugal. I like your youtube videos, but about oxlic acid i have a question. Do you use Oxalic acid or Dihidrated Oxalic acid?
Hello Pedro, thank you for the kind words. I do use oxalic acid dihydrate. I just say Oxalic acid for short. Happy Beekeeping
"When in doubt, nuke them out!" - Kamon Reynolds
Back in the 60's there was a bumper sticker that read " Nuk em till they glow and shoot em in the dark." I think of that every time he says nuk them.
@@allenferry1268 Lol, I like that!
Sorry for the stupid question, what does nuke them out mean?? I only have one colony so I’m very new to all this!!
@@catchemalive we are jokingly saying just treat the bees with oxalic acid vaporization.
Dan Ski's Bees
Gotcha! Thanks
I like your philosophy, leave no enemies alive.
Hi Reynoldses, Thanks for all the great videos. Would you consider making a playlist of all the videos in this series?
Sounds like a good Idea Polly. Thanks!
So if your treating Varro with Oxalic acid and you have a double deep do you do it twice or just put 2 tea spoons of the oxalic and leave it in double time
Just put 2 doses in and let it run a little longer
Kamon, I've been following you on these doggone mites. I was the gal who you told to use 25 of apiguard, every 3 weeks and then the OA for 21 days x5. Up to 3rd OA, but now have a trip where I am gone for 10 days. What do you suggest I do when I get home? (Cry,not an option). I was thinking just do apivar? I will be doing alcohol wash when I get back. Sticky board has shown mites every time.. though less..15 on one, 5 on other... no way out of the woods. Have lots of brood too... been feeding those pollen patties and they are devouring them in 3 days. We are in missouri... OA is ok for once a month... but with travel coming up again in late september... I may need a treatment modality that I can be consistent with. Wish I knew now what I didn't know back in April. Your videos have made a huge difference. Thank you!!
HI C Nevett, Sounds like you are helping your bees do well and that the mites are going in the right direction. You might have them controlled fairly decently now. I don't know. Apivar would kill mites for almost 2 months so if you used those it would kill mites till the end of October. It may be unnecessary at this point and you may have them controlled enough that you could just drop an OAV a few more times and your bees go thru winter healthy. We hope the videos do help and that your bees survive and thrive! Keep me posted!
Your the Harbinger of Death Kamon Reynolds for the Varroa Mite!
Boy you said it!
Lord Reynolds, I'm happy to report that the enemy is retreating.
@@danskisbees7348 haha you crack me up!
@@kamonreynolds Lol! If only I could figure out how to spell the sound that the respirator makes.
hi quick question im in week 2 of avivar 2 strips ber broog box double deep can i use oxalic acid in between for extra insurance ? please let me know watch all your stuff you have taught me alot thanks.
I think Apivar with OAV is a great plan.
@@kamonreynolds thanks im not seeing any results on the apivar i did treat in the spring with OAV maybe i dont have many mites they been in for 2 weeks tomorow, 2 weeks to go thats why im was asking about blasting them in between with OAV im in northern illinois need to get ready winter is coming . so you think ill be fine not overdoing it ?
thanks again, vince.m
You need to treat with formic acid. Oxalic will not kill mites under th brood where most of them are.
Kamon I just found this video. It's about 4 years old but are your thoughts the same on this topic. It is early Sept. 2023. I had a colony that washed a 35. Others in same yard were showing 0 or 1 or 4 so I decided to hit all of them with OA. Well when I did the one that had a 35 count dropped so many mites on the sticky board I couldn't count them all even after the third hit. I am using 4 grams every 4 days on 10 frame deeps or double 5 frames and 2 grams on single nucs. Should I keep hammering them until the mite drop stops then test them again? Some of the ones that had a low count may not need blasted 5 or 6 times. Tomorrow will be the 4th treatment. I think I will treat them all again then do some washes before moving ahead. I may be burning my bees up but the mites will kill them if I don't clean them out. Prior to this they were testing low mite counts. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
They are the same. It takes so many OA treatments to cover all of the emerging mites with the emerging brood. Keep hammering until you are getting clean sticky boards
After I do a wash with 0-2 mites per 300 bees, I dump the bees onto a paper towel to count bees but mainly to be certain I had not killed my queen. Every time, I find several more mites that did not come out in the wash. I add them to my count and treat accordingly. My guess is that most keepers accept the wash count and don’t bother counting dead bees or looking for their queen. I use 91% alcohol and shake them vigorously. This makes me not trust wash results like everybody seems to believe for results. What do you think?
I think you are doing awesome first of all. I do agree that washes give us a estimate of what is in the hive. That is why I treat unless I am getting very low counts through out the bee yard. Most beekeepers have never done a wash and you can learn alot by a wash and sifting thru some. Thanks for the comment
Love your video. I plan to use oxalic acid for the first time and hope it helps my bees. I'm in Gulfport, Ms. Go Tigers.
LSU tiger comment! Boooooo Roll Tide!
Thanks for watching and happy Beekeeping!
Why Oxalic acid and not Formic acid for an infestation that high, a 10 or 20 day treatment of Formic should get you through a brood cycle wouldn't it?
Formic acid would likely kill a colony this weak. Either by causing them to abscond or nuking what little brood they have. OA is much more gentle on the brood and the bees. You are right that formic would deliver a superior mite kill. Formic works very well in the right conditions. Those conditions rarely present themselves for me.
@Darron Blackhurst, neither the 10 or 20 day treatment would take you through a complete brood cycle. However, it doesn't have to, since Formic Acid also kills mites in the capped brood. It's effective, and I've used it, and lost a queen even if temps were way below 80. Not sure if she died or swarmed, but when I checked to remove the formic pro strips, she was gone and there was a bunch of emergency cells. Instructions said that if the ambient temperature is above 80 degrees Fahrenheit during the first 3 days of treatment, queen death or brood loss may occur. But if you disturb the hive too much while inserting the strips, temps inside the hive might get much higher than then ambient temperature. I'm tired of messing with the Formic Acid, but I might still consider it in the future on large, populous colonies. I'm converting to OA sublimation; but I'm not using the wand type applicator. There is a product out there called the Johno's Easy Vap....not easy to find. Cost effective at $150 plus $15 priority shipping. Does what more expensive models at a $500 price tag can do. This is not a promotion, I don't know the seller of this item, but he gets really good reviews in the BeeSource buy and sell section.
Does it work vapor more than amitraz?
Impressive progress👍 Looking forward see a 0% clean hive (if possible).
Have a question for the experienced bee keepers. When starting a NEW hive with a new queen after her mating flight and starting with new frames not drawn out... would that prevent varroa mite infestation? Or do the worker bees pick up the mites while gathering and infect the nurse bees?
Appreciate any clarification on this..thanx
Bees do drift from one colony to the next so at some point reinfestation will take place but the method you mention would slow varroa considerably.
You (Kamon Reynolds) and laura are a great pair and keep putting out great videos how about getting her in front of the camera some time. Thanks for sharing the information. One question now you have used the provape 110 would you buy one again?
Thanks Jim. Yes I would. They are even more valuable during broodless periods in winter.
Sounds like you were using 1.5g/deep doses. Have you tried 2-4g/deep?
I’m sure you’ve heard the results of the Jack/Ellis study at UFL. Yes?
Hi Kamon, Do you include the day you treated as a day?
I do
can you please remind me and possibly others on how much oxalic acid per 10 frame deep, 10 frame med, and possibly 5 frame nuc? I have learned so much already from you thank you very much!!
Hi Trooper Girl, 1 gram or half teaspoon for the deep and the medium box and a half gram for the nucleus colony!
I didn’t hear a Roll Tide for today! lol. RTR
Don't worry it IS coming!
Is wood bleach OK for OAV treatments? Thanks for your awesome videos Kamon!
Many people use it, and it does work, but technically I can't promote that....so I "won't" 😎 thanks for watching!
Thanks for rhe information!
I like your shirt a lot.
Randy Oliver's beekeeping site has a table for mixing for the drip method for OA , I haven't vaped any. He is also using some OA mixed with glycerin and soaking in shop towels that are laid on the hives . Good luck YMMV
Love your shirt! 😆
OA works, 6 treatments should knock them hard, if in doubt in the middle of the treatment program add another agent for knocking off mites that may be OA resistant. The bees then need a good feed.
This is the first time I have heard of using oxalic acid out of winter. What about MAQs strips?
Hello kamon. For oxalic acid evaporation What should be the outdoor temperature? Can it be applied easily in all seasons? Are there deaths in the brood?
yes any season
No deaths with the brood, it can be used at any temp. Cluster needs to be loose or it won't get all the bees covered with it.
@@kamonreynolds thanks for helping and information.
I was wondering if I could get your recipe to make your bee pollen patty’s ! I’ve been trying to get started into bee keeping , and learning what I can, I had bees when I was younger , but had gotten out of it , and I’m really wanting to get started back. Thank you .
Hey James, they made a video on March the 4th. th-cam.com/video/BxBdt3llNdk/w-d-xo.html
Let us know how you're doing, keep asking questions.
Another question, where im just starting out would it be worth wile to get the 4x10 smoker like yours or just a 4x7. Also how do you feel about using rags as fule? This is what my grandfather used for his
Rags can work great as long as they are not plastic or anything like that. I personally would go with the 4x10 but both are great smokers and will last many decades if you take care of them. I would use linseed oil or some type of wood conditioner on the wood bellows to keep the wood in good shape.
@@kamonreynolds thanks again! Cant wait to get my bees!
Crush varroa destructor.
At a recent bee club meeting they talked about how OAV kills open brood and larve. What has been your experience?
It does not kill larvae or brood. I have never noticed a loss of brood using OAV
I use OA and it is applied with a wand.
First, I have been in my hives 1 -2 times a week to see what is going on and to see early if things are changing.
So far I did not see any dead brood nor larvae.
Even if you do not open your hive, if your larvae would be killed by OA, then the bees would carry them out by the masses after a treatment.
Thanks for your work. Jamaica
Do you test every hive? Or do you just say do like 10% of a yard, and then evaluate from those results if you'll need to test and treat every hive after that?
Mite question. I've been treating my packages at my new apiaries periodically through summer. When the packages were installed I used Apivar to kill mites in the hives. I couldn't get to the hives to do an oxalic acid dribble before the bees capped the larvae. After treating, my mite counts were still 1-2 mites per 100. So, at the end of July I used Apiguard which I've used for years. I removed the last treatment last week. I did mite counts today and the counts went up to 4 per 100 bees on average. So far with my colonies it's a few hundred dollars wasted.
I'm looking to use oxalic acid next. I'm not collecting the fall crops so that the bees can use it through winter. So, I'm going to be purchasing an oxalic acid vaporizer which are expensive. But, as I look at it, if I lose colonies due to mites I'm spending 120 to 200 to replace each hive (unless I split from survivors). Once I have the vaporizer then treatments are cheap.
If I'm looking at your method of six treatments every four days it will take me close to October. The queens are still laying so I know the mites haven't shut the queens down from laying yet. These are my winter bees with eggs laid September 1 which is tomorrow.
Does this plan sound right to you? Suggestions? Thanks
Apivar no good only oxalic acid and formic pro is the best but cousing some loss of queens 10-20% also check brood pattern is it good check for wing virus beetle issue but dont forget to replace queens next year they not handling good mites
don't waste your time, money, health on a vaporizer.
find a way to put oxalic Glycerine between frames in the brood just like apivar and bayvarol strips.
every 4 weeks replace half of the OA strips and maintain this regime as long as nessecary.
This no bullshit advice is the result of thousands of trials by some of the best beekeepers in the world.
of course you could just laugh and brush the advice off.
@@1philliph This isn't legal in the US as of now. Beekeepers still have to follow the application laws.
I use Formic acid now along with Oxalic acid in the winter to kill the mites. 90 percent survival last winter.
So if I have 500 hives, I have to wash every single colony ?
Cats and women will do as they will. Men and dogs just have to get over it.
I understand the idea of treating is to have healthy chubbie bees going into winter. Would it also be advised to treat them one more time after they stop brood rearing?
Absolutely. OAV is not as effective as many of us are told. The final video should shed more light on this.
A cliff hanger. I can't wait.
Does that hive have brood that's being uncapped and inspected and signs of high mite load? All mine start having trouble and you'll see em yanking out infected brood or larvae with their heads chewed down if I let em get that bad,it's hard to come back from that point sometimes get viruses
Yes I just did a video on it thankfully the new queen is laying brood very well lots of capped brood for a hive in this state. Thankfully the viruses didn't seem to get a firm hold on these bees
@@kamonreynolds I had a couple that about did get taken away but they have come out of it surprisingly
No deformed wing virus with that high count? No bee paralysis?
Hard to believe with that load.
My yards were full of crawling dying bees at 3 or 4 percent.
Could it be that our bees are beginning to show some mite-tolerance?
(Doubt it)
@@mikeries8549 when they do I wanna Queen, I got a wild Swarm that has dwv now, funny Dr down road known for tf,an swarm trapping says he does nothing lol BS I got same bees I know better
@@mikeries8549 there is some deformed wing and sacbrood. It was not near as bad as it should have been.
That is true for the most part. However, if you live in the Mts it tends to be about 10 degrees cooler.
kamon, i just bought a provap110, do you really need to test if you are going to treat them regardless?
In winter I don't. During summer I do. Wait about a week after treatments are done to do the alcohol wash test or something. Definitely don't let the mites get outta control
Boom! Nuked them real good!
Boom!
@@danskisbees7348 lol still looking for you in the facebook group dan!
@@George-nx5lo Lol, we'll see.
Try to feed this family with Suger Water & Tee Tree Oil, 10 drops to a Liter of feeds.
Nice video. I do my mite wash with windshield washer flued. Works good. Made my tester with two peanut butter jars. Did get a 12 on a wash so hitting them with OA. The others where 1 and 2s . I have had nuc hives abconed with OA vaporizer. 5th year bee keeper in Pa.
FYI..I stopped using wiper fluid because on one occasion the bees were still moving after several minutes of immersion in the fluid and shaking/swirling in the jar.
Do you use feed any oils to your Bees
Not any more. Never noticed any difference except in my wallet. We hope to experiment with them more in the future as I did not try everything.
why don't use Formic Acid .It get them 97% from the first week.
Been too hot since Late April. Still too hot.
Kamon, what is the rationale for testing before you have finished the 5th treatment? No matter the outcome, you're still going to complete the 5th treatment and will test afterward. Thanks.
I wanted to see the progress I was making. If there is one thing i have learned over the years is just because it is commonly known that something works does not always mean that is actually works when you put it to the test yourself.
@@kamonreynolds If the mite count after the 4th treatment had been higher..would it have changed your treatment plan?
@@jtelander Probably. Those mites have to die one way or the other if it is too high after the 5th treatment I likely will drop some Apivar
@@kamonreynolds I'm looking forward to the results after the 5th dose. I'm following the same protocol.
Try “Formic Pro” the publication that comes with the product says it treats Vora mites beneath the “capping”; it works for me.
The further south you go the less opportunities for using formic pro or maq's. There are years where treating using those products during July, August, or September is not possible due to temperature constraints. That's why we use oav as the primary tool in our mite toolbox. Formic pro and maq's both are effective when used exactly as directed. I just don't trust the weatherman on the temp forecasts.
Will it hurt if I give a varroa treatment of oxalic acid every two weeks through the summer. The reason I'm asking is because if I do that that I know the mites will not be in my hive
you will be promoting resistance to the treatment in the future generations of varroa, you have to hit them 2-3 times a year , but it has to count and you have to kill almost all of them, it helps if you create queen laying breaks by locking the queen for a week to cut the brood cycle a bit
Do the test with CO2 ,then you save the bees.
Nice to see all those dead mites ,what do you think of treating with oxalic acid in a fogger with grain alcohol as apposed to the vaporizer
I haven't a clue if it works or not I need to find out. Some say it messes with the OA crystals but I really can't say. Ultimately the sticky boards with an Alcohol wash will answer that for you
I did it one fall with a yard fogger. It seemed to work. All I have is anecdotal observations. Didn't count mites just went thru the four or five applications. That winter Iost not many colonies. It's a pita because the acid solution eats the guts out of the cheap pump mechanism in the fogger. Just save up for the provap110. Youll end up there like I did. Have a used varrox that I don't use anymore. Have tried it all except oxalic dribble. The provap is worth it if you're running more than ten colonies. It's flexible...you can treat nucs.
Be careful using the oxalic acid it ate up the plastic pump in my fogger . Make sure you clean and oil it after you use it.
Richard, don't waste your time and money. You'll end up getting a vaporizer anyway. The Provap is great, but if you don't have very many hives, just get Mann Lake's wand vaporizer. It's $140 and a car battery is $70 out the door from Wally World. If you have power, the Provap 110 will definitely pay for itself in the time that it saves.
@@danskisbees7348 Thanks Dan 6 backyard hives with accessible power sounds like the provap is the way to go . thanks again for the input.
Can you do Know in May??
Well said
Hi Kamon
I've followed your whole season and have created a new YT account to separate work, personal and beekeeping interests, which means I get to watch all your videos again, to build up a library! Any chance you could slip this video into a playlist of all treatments on this colony?
I'm grateful and appreciate your videos, and especially the honesty you maintain, when some others may not. It's refreshing!
Thanks Beekeeper. Playlist coming right up!
@@kamonreynolds Top Man! Thank you.
Thanks !!
How late in the season will you treat with OAV? MAQS? Wondering how much time I have left to correct the mite counts effectively. In Southern Indiana Thx
You can use OAV in winter
so what was the count? this time.
2%
@@kamonreynolds much better but still one more time
Oxalic Vap vs.Oxalic Drip~~ Please correct me: some folks use a oxalic drip on a brood less / egg less colony. What happens if there is brood and eggs ?
TrooperGirl, the OA dribble won't hurt the brood or eggs, but it won't kill the mites in the capped brood. So what does that mean? It means that the mites in the capped brood will continue the cycle. So that's why some people might do several dribbles over 24 days or, and in theory that should kill all the mites. However, the problem with that is that the OA dribble is much tougher on the bees than the OA, especially in winter. It can be done, but it's risky. My biggest problem with the OA vap was the potential fire hazard that can happen with the wand type vaporizers with the heated pans. There's the Provap 110, but that is $500, which is not in my budget at this time. I finally found a more cost effective alternative, and I'll be receiving it this weekend. But these band heated units as they're called, are definitely the way to effectively manage mites without spending hours and hours. However, as they say, always rotate treatments, so once in a while use an alternative treatment method, like Apivar (Amitraz). Sorry, that was more than you asked for, but I hope it somewhat answered your question, since no one else addressed it.
@@sverreslotfeldt7674 Thank you so much for the information! No that is NOT more than I was asking for. The more information the better. Thank you again for taking the time to offer valuable information
Is all Oxalic acid the same I cannot find the granules I live in Portugal but I can get oxalic powder and how much do you use each time ?
Here is an example of what to look for. You want it to be 99% or higher pure oxalic acid. As you already know just be careful as it can irritate skin and if in vapor be hard on your lungs. www.soapgoods.com/oxalic-acid-p-889.html I use 2 grams per vaporization
You purchased mite away strips a while back. How do you like them?
Hasn't been really cool enough to use them. Hopefully, we will get that done soon
@@kamonreynolds How cool should it be to use mite strips?
i have heard bee's go hostile aggressive with hi mite count?
Sometimes they do. not this hive
After you apply an oa treatment is there a recommended amount of time that should go by before you treat them again...
Can you treat them to much is what I'm asking...You do a 5 session treatment, then wait how long before you are safe to do another 5 session treatment?