I used a Burgess fogger as per your recommendations....back in 2017. Got two uses from it and the fog did do a great job killing mites. However the plastic parts in the machine were destroyed by the OA. They absolutely fell apart when touched. I did wash it thoroughly after using and put it away dry. I finally went to a pro vap machine. Expensive, but worth saving hives that are worth the price of the vaporizer.
Great vmessage. Oxalic acid is a great treatment method whether vaporized or fogged. Folks need to remember that oxalic acid doesn't penetrate capped brood. So any mites closed up with the larva will reproduce and come out with the hatching bee. Therefore, 3 treatments are required 5-7 days apart. Last year I almost lost my first hive to deformed wing virus caused by the mites. I did oxalic acid and they recovered and made it through winter very strong. No problems this year with scheduled treatments.
Hi David, love your channel. I'm a 3rd year beekeeper here in Ohio and go to your videos a lot for advice. I tried OA treatment with Burgess fogger this year, as i have only used apivar strips . Burgess changed design here in 2020, i tried your recipe of 100ml alcohol and 25 g of OA but since plastic container was bigger it wouldn't draw it up... my solution that worked was, i got small glass jelly/ mason jar that screwed in correct, but had to mix a double batch(200 ml alcohol and 50 g of OA ) for it to fog correctly.Just wanted to to pass it along to your viewers to help save some aggravation. Thank you sir
I am a beginner backyard beekeeper this year and there are so many things to learn. I follow your vids, are very informative. I just bought a fogger, oxalic acid, grain alcohol and mason jars (regular mouth) and tried out last Sunday. I am still learn to work with the fogger properly. Thank you so much.
I'm really impressed at your attention to the new bee keeper. I have no interest in bee keeping but you do make it an interesting, compelling watch and I have learned a lot over the past few days watching safely from my keyboard. Thanks Barnyard Bees, for sharing the excellent content.
When ever one uses a Respirator you need to be careful you are using the correct filters for what you want to filter out. Not all filters work for everything or anything. Some filters allow what you are trying to keep out through the filter and trap it in the mask making the bad chemical concentrated in the mask. So make sure you are using the correct filters. Just some good info to share.
These cartridges (yellow band) that come with the 3M respirators are typically general use and rated for most things including a particulate filter, organic vapors, and acid gasses. Some particular chemicals like formaldehyde and mercury vapors need a specific filter though.
Thanks for the video, nobody seems to have tested dosage per pump to the hive. I measured 7 times 10 pumps and it turns out that mine (burgess like in video) delivers 0.31 gram of OA per pump. To deliver 1 gram per 10 frame deep box you need 3 pumps. For a double deep it would be 6 pumps (or 7 pumps to get 2.15 gram OA). Hope this helps.
I have been using the battery power units you load up a tray and stick in the bottom of hive for two years now. The bees have been doing great but takes over hour to treat 25 hives in one yard. I am going to order one of these set ups and start using it next month. Thanks for sharing the video.
Oxalic acid decarboxylase above 189°C so you don't use oxalic acid vapour, just formic acid vapour. This method don't kill more than 60% of varroa mite.
There is over 3/4 of alcohol in the mix. He does not heat up oxalic acid, he vaporizes the mix and that steam does not reach 189 C. Stop telling nonsense.
So it's been a year, and you've had a chance now to produce long-term results. Do you have any stats of before/after results? What well did this perform to keep your numbers into check? Where there any hive losses? Any gotcha's or bugs you had to iron out?
@@douglaswolfgang9698 Alcohol evaporates quicker than anything else. you COULD use sugar syrup if you want to attract bees, but in terms of bee safety the acid is okay and the alcohol will leave a lower impact on your hive just since it goes away quicker. Also it is a better solvent than water
Instead of the alcohol I used vegetable glycerin and mineral oil because sometimes the alcohol will combust when really hot. I use 75 ml of veg glycerin and 25ml mineral oil with 25g of oxalic acid like you happy beekeeping 👍
I have just purchased the Black Flag/Burgess fogger. In the literature it clearly states, "The fogger is a dispenser of insecticides. Results obtained are directly related to the insecticide used. In order to produce a fog, the insecticide must have the proper oil base. Black Flag® Fogging Insecticide Formula 2 has the proper oil base. Do not use emulsifiable concentrate or other materials designed to be mixed with water." Use with alcohol has been reported here to cause internal parts to become brittle. Since neither water or alcohol are effective lubricants, would not mixing oxalic acid with glycerin and/or mineral oil be suggested for extending the life of the fogger?
A good respirator is important. The right filter is what's critical. Wrong filter = useless equipment. NIOSH and OSHA require a N100, R100, or P100 filter Don't use anything else or anything less. Some filters are effectively useless against oxalic acid fume.
Wow David do you ever sleep? I appreciate a quick response but with the hour difference and responding back literally in minutes no wonder you are so successful in your work. Again thank you so much that alone solves a big question for us. “Your the Man again”!!! Go to sleep...
Have you checked the resulting fog temperature to make certain it is not too hot i.e. too hot and it will break down oxalic acid into formic acid and carbon monoxide ( NO)? Have you done alcohol wash to check effectiveness? PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Thanks, mike
A year later using this fogger, If I’m treating 75 hives, I put 150grams of OA,150grams of ever clear, and 75grams of food grade glycerin in an old pickle jar and heat on stove in a frying pan of water stirring until clears up. Have fogger on lowest setting to just keep flame on and pump trigger until smoke,then count 2 strong puffs on 5 frame nucs, and 5 on double 8 frame boxes. Makes it closer to the recommended 2grams per hive. Don’t count a puff until you see smoke. You must rinse the gun and cycle a jar of water thru the gun after use with flame on until you don’t see smoke or you use 1/2 a jar of water. do wear rubber gloves because jar will leak on you. Still a good kill.😉
Thanks David , good video!! I have a tip for you . You may already know this but I will tell you anyway. Harbor Freight sells an adapter that enables you to refil those gas bottles from a larger grill bottle ... keep the good videos coming !! Thanks again ....
Just wanted to say thank you for all that you are doing for the beekeeping community. I really appreciate the hard work and the advice; especially when it will end up saving me a lot of money and garner the high success levels that are necessary in the mite game. I've watched a lot of your bee videos and I always learn something else new from them. You guys are doing so much good in this realm! Keep going. You have certainly earned my subscription. I wish I could subscribe more than once to this channel!!!
Definitely clean/rinse the white pump pick up tube after each use. If you don't it will become very brittle. The parts are only $10 to replace but a hassle to get. I didn't have a good kill rate using the fogger. It works, but for me it wasn't close to 100%. Could have been the pump pick up was damaged.
Hey David, as always thank you for the great videos! Im a little confused about your recipe and have one question: How do you set your scale to measure the alcohol in milliliters when milliliters is a volume measure? Does your scale know how much 100 ml of grain alcohol weighs? Thanks again for your videos. I'm learning a ton from you!
The scale assumes you are measuring water, so "100 ml" on the scale is really 127 ml of the alcohol. Should help others duplicate the results if they measure the alcohol by volume.
Thank you for this info David. I am a new beekeeper and I am loving it, but one thing that has intimidated me even after a decent amount of research was Varroa treatment. This is exactly what I have been looking for. I really needed a schedule for treatment as well (thanks again). This video also prompted me to research if Oxalic treatment could/should be done with honey supers on (not that I don't believe you, I just want to see the science myself). I found a number of scientific studies showing that there was pretty much no Oxalic added (honey naturally has Oxalic in it) while supers were present. Also, MANY vegetables we eat every day have decent amount of Oxalic acid in them naturally. EDIT: Please keep the videos coming, so much good info here on youtube from you and a number of others. I'm just consuming all of your experiences :D
David, I appreciate your swift comment returns. My 2nd Question is have you herdof any built up resistance with either oxalic acid or mineral oil treatments?
I lost both hives in the Fall within two months of trying this. I think the fogging machines did not work reliably and injected too much alcohol. No bees left at all! Would stick with just oxalic dry heated to vapor.
I noticed the fog wasn’t thick so I refined your recipe I added 1/8 cup of PEG propylene ethyl glycol to the mix and now it fogs the solution well. With thick lingering fog.
You might mention flushing the fogger out with straight alcohol or something after treating the hives! I bought one and it worked great...once! Now I have to see if I can take it apart and clean it out,
I just got this whole set up but Im in Japan. I had top get a special adaptor so I could attach the propane tank. Im having a little problem getting the fogger to stay lit. But the treatment was fast. I treated 12 hives in about an hour and that included mixing the oxalic acid and taking off the hornet traps. We have giant Japanese hornets here. They are a nightmare.
Awesome and very informative video! I am actually getting started with beekeeping and am currently located in Medellin, Colombia. Quick question...do I treat my honey supers as well?
Barnyard is using 25 grams of Oxalic which would mean that each jar should only be able to spray in 12.5 hives with the recommended dose of 2 grams per hive. With that much liquid left in the jar there is no way those hives are getting anywhere close to 2 grams a hive. Has anyone ever seen one of these fogger acid treatment videos where the beekeeper gives you a before and after mite washes? I haven't. Why is that? Without numbers this treatment method efficiency is in question. In fairness we plan to try this in the spring an actual measure the results. From my own fogger experience over the years YOU HAVE TO PAUSE 30 TO 60 SECONDS FOR THE FOGGER'S COIL TO HEAT BACK UP. Or your are just spitting liquid alcohol not "fog".
Some people use formic acid mixed diesel alcohol, but this effect does not seem to be very good. They say that direct injection of formic acid is more effective and in the absence of eggs. Another method uses formic acid mixed with sublimed sulfur and blown into the box.
Since milliliters is a fluid unit of measure, how can to tell by weight unless you know the specific gravity of the fluid you are weighing? I’m asking because most kitchen scales have pounds or grams.
@@blackberry5908 I've asked around and the closest answer I've gotten is that the fogger is not an approved method of delivery. With the battery opperated Instant Vap and ProVap, the delivery system is approved and so I doubt others will advocate to use a "non-approved" delivery system on a public forum.
Ever tried a green drone screen. Mites prefer the drone bee becasue they incubate longer and can hatch more mites. So get you a $5 green drone frame place it 3 away from ctr of hive and put it in the freezer just before the drones hatch each time they fill it. No chemical option. Works well.
Hello, I have that kind of fogger since last season and I use oxalic acid and glicerin (liquit) , it is true, it is a very cheap and quick method and bees looks ok after treatment but With "my mites" (I live in Chile South America ) I had to increase much more the dosis (800 g O. A. / litre glycerin) to kill mites in a good rate. I'd like to see an alcohol wash test before and after treatment. My concern is also the effect on very young bee larve. Anyway, good video Keep posting Kind regards from Chile 🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱
Hola Felipe. tengo ese sublimador, traté con 100 ml de alcohol al 95% y 25 gramos de acido oxalico, aveces se incendiaba en la piquera cuando la acercas demasiado, además de que no sublima bien, no sale bien sublimado. quiero verificar con oxalico y glicerina, estuve buscando las proporciones de la mezcla y eres la única persona que lo ha descrito. te agradecería si me envias el link de alguna pagina donde se pueden ver las proporciones de las mezclas además de tus conocimientos.
Hi david vince in northern illinois, how soon can i start this in the spring ? and can i just do it once a month all summer ? and then once a week for a month in the fall , i talked to you a month ago on joes bee chat about my hive dying im thinking the mites might of had something to do with it, please let me know thanks vince.
I also found the black flag unit you were talking about on Amazon. I guess the two biggest differences would be the click starter like on a grill and you pour your fluid into the machine not using a jar. I am going to purchase one of those foggers. I'm leaning toward the one in your video because the jar would give me the ability to use different types of chemicals.
It can be very close to 100% if done in the winter when there is no brood production and all the bees are in the hive. A good way to start out the new year.
David hello, another beginner question please. In California 190 proof Everclear is illegal and there is a few places that have a bottle of 150 proof Everclear still left on the shelf. Will the 150 proof still work or be as effective? Maybe a simple question but just want to make sure not to make any mistakes. (Any more mistakes!) Again thank you for your time and help with all that are trying to get started in the bee business. Best Regards
Dianna Boykin I'm a know nothing person here to learn. I find it hard to believe there would be no residue or Off taste to the honey if it wasn't removed first?
It's not that bad. In Vapor-form, Oxalic acid dissipates rather quickly and has nowhere NEAR the kind of concentration necessary to reach short-term exposure limits. As an Anhydrous Acid, it's primary solubility is in Alcohol/Alcohol Derivatives, meaning it's not going to bond to moisture in or around the hive. As such, it's not going to "taint" the honey, let alone be capable of penetrating the wax-caps over the honey cells. It's perfectly safe unless you spray it UNDILUTED in HEAVY AMOUNTS around people/pets without respirators. www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926346
That does NOT mean that it CAN'T cause harm. The effects of toxicity from over-exposure to Oxalic Acid can damage your nervous system, damage your kidneys, devastate your respiratory system and more. Just like Radiation; Know the exposure limit, take preventative measures to limit your own exposure and those around you, and make sure you use an amount that does NOT harm anything around the intended target.
The varroa mite is easily dealt with by hive design. If you keep your bees in thin walled hives with all the environmental integrity of a cardboard box the varroa mite will thrive. Change that and the mite will fade away. It is well known that the varroa mite does not do well in a humid environment. (The precise mechanism is not known to me). If you put the bee entrance at the top of the brood chamber immediately below the queen excluder a VIBEZ (Ventilated Integrated Bee Entry Zone) is formed and this will serve to make the brood chamber a humid bucket. The only hive type that has this top entry and ventilation is the ZEST hive. If the pupation time of the bees can be reduced this will reduce the time available for the varroa mites to mature in the brood resulting in the exponential collapse of the varroa population. Individual pupa temperature varies over time of day and brood position. Above 37C. the pupa die. Below 29C. the pupa die. At 35C. it takes 10-11 days to hatch. At 31C. it takes it takes 14-15 days to hatch. 35C. is ideal. Winter time is varroa breeding heaven. Ideally the colony external enclosure will be of an insulated material that also has a thermal weight that carries the heat of the day into the cool of the night and the cool of the night back into the heat of the day. Aerated concrete blocks are ideal having a 39 times better R value than a thin walled hive and 19 times that of a polyhive. The ZEST DIY hive is functionally free of varroa together with the maladies and morbidities that it carries. It enables in honeybees diseases such as Nosema, Acarine and DWV. EFB and EFB have never been reported, but that may be because it is relatively rare. As a proof of concept you can adopt these hive design management techniques to see for yourself the truth of them.
If you use 2 or 3 hits per nuc, how many on a double brood box hive? Thank you. A side note, your nucs have filled out a 10 frame brood box and half way on second boxes. Full of bees and all stages of eggs and brood in 5 weeks. Doing fantastic! Thank you.
You guys doing bit hard work then us I leaving carins QLD Australia far north tropical we haven't this problem finger cross it stay safe hear. Tks for really good information
Hello David always appreciate all your videos. Am using your rapid feeders now. One question please about the oxalis acid treatment. Can you do it in the winter (now) if temperatures are 60 degrees and above. We live in California where there is no snow or no extreme freezing temperatures. Would like to treat now if possible. Thanks again
David, will 90proof vodka Work in this fogger? And will the jar of solution keep very long? I've only got 3 colonies and treating 3 times will only use a small amount. Maybe I could reduce the it to 50ml and 14.5 grams?
Hello, I tried this last year and it worked great! I still have a jar of the solution left from last year. Can I use this or do I need to make a new batch?
Dave, grain alcohol in a fogger? Isn't there a concern of fire with this stuff? How is this working for you? Have you done mite counts after the treatments? 50 to60 dollars for a fogger is nothing compared to the cost of those other mite treatments.
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'll be trying this in the spring. Maybe on a nice day this early winter I'll give it a go. It's so fast I can't believe it. Just the prep work looks like a little time but that's it.
There are a lot of legitimate questions here that haven't been answered. I like that this process looks very convenient but before we jump on the idea, how about some facts. Did you compare numbers before and after. What was the effect on the brood. Remove honey supers? (yes) It is easy! Is it effective? Must use it at least a full brood cycle. Three weeks is not long enough.
I'm surprised no one made a comment on your veiws .most times efficient treatments go under the radar .we all try to complicate things ,making it more difficult than it should bee.most great or good ideas come from people who try things in the real world .sure it's early but development starts here .like the saying goes create a problem make it more complicated than it is ,make laws to prevent ,then sell or talk about the solutions which are money making opportunities . Create a problem , create a cure make good to see . Meanwhile some go broke .making some people very happy indeed .
Me again I am in my 4 year of beekeeping and always used oxalic acid in a vaporiser I see your way of using oxalic acid with alcohol and thought that it would be easier instead of the way that I am doing it with a vaporiser I use gasVap and was thinking you’re fog Machine it’s far easier to do more hives
Its been a while since you posted this video and I was wondering how your mite levels have been? Does this method work and keep them low? This is the method I am going to try.
So i did this with a new fogger and some black oily liquid kept coming out even after several pumps. Is that common? Also how do you store this? Will the OA corrode the internal parts of the unit?
I also have a Burgess Fogger . That said is it possible to get a more voluminous puff of treatment by removing the small nozzle or opening it up a bit with a drill ? Thanks in advance ...Rick
Just a small warning to people who do this. Don’t pump the trigger to many times inside one hive. In one of my hives I pumped the trigger multiple times and my hive filled with alcohol vapors. Well those vapors ignited off of the fogger and it literally blew the lid off my hive. I killed a bunch of bees but the queen survived and I’ll go in the hive in a few days to see if they recovered and are going to make it.
David this is an old video I am wondering if you have changed anything in the way you are treating, are you still treating like this, if the insect fogger is holding up or if the acid makes its life short ?
Thanks for all the great videos David. I will be getting 2 nuc's 4/14 they supplier does not treat. I will of course and will be monitoring mite count with sugar shake. what would you recommend as the best way to start MAQS was what I planned after the colonies had settled in. I live zone 9a so temps will be perfect. if you agree how long after the Nuc's are installed would you say to wait to use the strips? thanks gain
Dave. I'm having a problem with the Burgess foggers in that the oxcilac acid is resolving the pump kit. Are you having the same problem? If not what are you doing? If so what are you doing other than replacing the pump kit? Thanks
Thanks again for a great video and the on going help provided. One question to a beginner please, is the honey in the hive after a treatment still ok for consumption? If not do the bees in a hive still feed on their honey during the dearth or only storing for winter use? Naive question I'm sure but oh well. Last question I bought a few of your rapid feeders and have experienced the bees getting under the cup and dying in the feeder? It is a great way to feed sugar water! Thanks again for all your time!
last 2 weeks I used powder sugar and noticed a good amount of mites on some of the sticky boards..i cleaned the sticky boards, applied the OA as u show here...waiting to see what the boards look like now... hoping for the best....
I am extremely interested in your results, I applied sugar on one hive a few days ago, and will again, but have seen very few drop, a lot less than was on the board before the sugar was applied... I worry it may not be helping much.. PLEASE let us know
I had gave my bees a pretty good powder sugar dusting( PS.) probably more then necessary. the hives that had heavy PS mite drops also had very heavy mite drops when I used the oxalic acid. in fact I was shocked the amount of mites on a couple of the hives. most of the hives had a very light drop . a few had none.. today I cleaned all the sticky boards and am treating the ones with drops again. we will see.. I am curious if fogger is as good as the vapor method??? i will say fogger is fast and easy..will let u know how the second treatment goes.
Thanks for the update, I'm thinking it may be what I need to do.. they need time to recover before winter sets in, and about 1/2 of the leaves here are already down..
well I just checked this morning. 24 hrs latter. 12 hives.. 3 had no drop. 6 had 3 to 5.... 3 had maybe 10 . so i think next week i will treat those three with OA the rest im not going to treat with it I will just try the powder sugar then I'm done for winter with mites. . for sure going to add this to my weaponry. thanks Barnyarnd bees for ur help...
While i use this method in certain times of the year its far from 100% effective. Anyone that does mites counts before and after will still find mites alive after a treatment. The only 100% method is a deadout
I used a Burgess fogger as per your recommendations....back in 2017. Got two uses from it and the fog did do a great job killing mites. However the plastic parts in the machine were destroyed by the OA. They absolutely fell apart when touched. I did wash it thoroughly after using and put it away dry. I finally went to a pro vap machine. Expensive, but worth saving hives that are worth the price of the vaporizer.
Great vmessage. Oxalic acid is a great treatment method whether vaporized or fogged. Folks need to remember that oxalic acid doesn't penetrate capped brood. So any mites closed up with the larva will reproduce and come out with the hatching bee. Therefore, 3 treatments are required 5-7 days apart. Last year I almost lost my first hive to deformed wing virus caused by the mites. I did oxalic acid and they recovered and made it through winter very strong. No problems this year with scheduled treatments.
Jeff S💤💩💩
So what about my uncapped honey, if this stuff is so dangerous then it must be soaking in the honey. I eat that honey!
BBQ Train oxalic acid is a natural chemical in many plants and present in many foods naturally like spinach....
OA should not be used with honey on the hive if its going to be harvested.
BBQTrain
There is Oxalic Acid in honey, with or without treatment. You've eaten more oxalic acid than you may bee aware of.
Hi David, love your channel. I'm a 3rd year beekeeper here in Ohio and go to your videos a lot for advice. I tried OA treatment with Burgess fogger this year, as i have only used apivar strips . Burgess changed design here in 2020, i tried your recipe of 100ml alcohol and 25 g of OA but since plastic container was bigger it wouldn't draw it up... my solution that worked was, i got small glass jelly/ mason jar that screwed in correct, but had to mix a double batch(200 ml alcohol and 50 g of OA ) for it to fog correctly.Just wanted to to pass it along to your viewers to help save some aggravation. Thank you sir
Does this still work for you?
I am a beginner backyard beekeeper this year and there are so many things to learn. I follow your vids, are very informative. I just bought a fogger, oxalic acid, grain alcohol and mason jars (regular mouth) and tried out last Sunday. I am still learn to work with the fogger properly. Thank you so much.
James Huynh there are a lot of things to remember, being new, I can only imagine the confusion on things to do, and how to do them.
I'm really impressed at your attention to the new bee keeper. I have no interest in bee keeping but you do make it an interesting, compelling watch and I have learned a lot over the past few days watching safely from my keyboard.
Thanks Barnyard Bees, for sharing the excellent content.
When ever one uses a Respirator you need to be careful you are using the correct filters for what you want to filter out. Not all filters work for everything or anything. Some filters allow what you are trying to keep out through the filter and trap it in the mask making the bad chemical concentrated in the mask. So make sure you are using the correct filters. Just some good info to share.
@OBAMFSpike can't be that intelligent, forgot to list which filters specifically are the ones you want to use. thanks for Half a thing!
These cartridges (yellow band) that come with the 3M respirators are typically general use and rated for most things including a particulate filter, organic vapors, and acid gasses. Some particular chemicals like formaldehyde and mercury vapors need a specific filter though.
Thanks for the video, nobody seems to have tested dosage per pump to the hive. I measured 7 times 10 pumps and it turns out that mine (burgess like in video) delivers 0.31 gram of OA per pump. To deliver 1 gram per 10 frame deep box you need 3 pumps. For a double deep it would be 6 pumps (or 7 pumps to get 2.15 gram OA). Hope this helps.
I have been using the battery power units you load up a tray and stick in the bottom of hive for two years now. The bees have been doing great but takes over hour to treat 25 hives in one yard. I am going to order one of these set ups and start using it next month. Thanks for sharing the video.
Oxalic acid decarboxylase above 189°C so you don't use oxalic acid vapour, just formic acid vapour. This method don't kill more than 60% of varroa mite.
Do the pads work?
There is over 3/4 of alcohol in the mix. He does not heat up oxalic acid, he vaporizes the mix and that steam does not reach 189 C. Stop telling nonsense.
So it's been a year, and you've had a chance now to produce long-term results. Do you have any stats of before/after results? What well did this perform to keep your numbers into check? Where there any hive losses? Any gotcha's or bugs you had to iron out?
Why use alcohol? Would sugar syrup work?
@@douglaswolfgang9698 Alcohol evaporates quicker than anything else. you COULD use sugar syrup if you want to attract bees, but in terms of bee safety the acid is okay and the alcohol will leave a lower impact on your hive just since it goes away quicker.
Also it is a better solvent than water
Instead of the alcohol I used vegetable glycerin and mineral oil because sometimes the alcohol will combust when really hot. I use 75 ml of veg glycerin and 25ml mineral oil with 25g of oxalic acid like you happy beekeeping 👍
I have just purchased the Black Flag/Burgess fogger. In the literature it clearly states, "The fogger is a dispenser of insecticides. Results obtained are directly related to the
insecticide used. In order to produce a fog, the insecticide must have the proper oil
base. Black Flag® Fogging Insecticide Formula 2 has the proper oil base. Do not use
emulsifiable concentrate or other materials designed to be mixed with water." Use with alcohol has been reported here to cause internal parts to become brittle. Since neither water or alcohol are effective lubricants, would not mixing oxalic acid with glycerin and/or mineral oil be suggested for extending the life of the fogger?
Ordered all my stuff today! Thank you !
Thank you ❤️. I seen this. Works great. My first year as a bees keep
A good respirator is important.
The right filter is what's critical. Wrong filter = useless equipment.
NIOSH and OSHA require a N100, R100, or P100 filter
Don't use anything else or anything less. Some filters are effectively useless against oxalic acid fume.
To clean the fogger run some water mixed with baking soda when u are done.
Wow David do you ever sleep? I appreciate a quick response but with the hour difference and responding back literally in minutes no wonder you are so successful in your work. Again thank you so much that alone solves a big question for us. “Your the Man again”!!!
Go to sleep...
Anyone using this method? Never seen it before and I like it!
Can’t thank you enough for all you do-no words can express my appreciation.
did this work for you?
Have you checked the resulting fog temperature to make certain it is not too hot i.e. too hot and it will break down oxalic acid into formic acid and carbon monoxide ( NO)? Have you done alcohol wash to check effectiveness?
PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Thanks, mike
How could you measure that??
Your videos are great, they've really helped me so far on my first season and I'll definitely be buying my bees from you next season.
A year later using this fogger, If I’m treating 75 hives, I put 150grams of OA,150grams of ever clear, and 75grams of food grade glycerin in an old pickle jar and heat on stove in a frying pan of water stirring until clears up. Have fogger on lowest setting to just keep flame on and pump trigger until smoke,then count 2 strong puffs on 5 frame nucs, and 5 on double 8 frame boxes. Makes it closer to the recommended 2grams per hive. Don’t count a puff until you see smoke. You must rinse the gun and cycle a jar of water thru the gun after use with flame on until you don’t see smoke or you use 1/2 a jar of water. do wear rubber gloves because jar will leak on you. Still a good kill.😉
Thanks David , good video!! I have a tip for you . You may already know this but I will tell you anyway. Harbor Freight sells an adapter that enables you to refil those gas bottles from a larger grill bottle ... keep the good videos coming !! Thanks again ....
You can buy the refill adapters on ebay or Amazon, too.
Amazing that it only kills the mites and not the bees. Really good video!
Just wanted to say thank you for all that you are doing for the beekeeping community. I really appreciate the hard work and the advice; especially when it will end up saving me a lot of money and garner the high success levels that are necessary in the mite game. I've watched a lot of your bee videos and I always learn something else new from them. You guys are doing so much good in this realm! Keep going. You have certainly earned my subscription. I wish I could subscribe more than once to this channel!!!
so does this work?
Definitely clean/rinse the white pump pick up tube after each use. If you don't it will become very brittle. The parts are only $10 to replace but a hassle to get. I didn't have a good kill rate using the fogger. It works, but for me it wasn't close to 100%. Could have been the pump pick up was damaged.
Good to know! Thanks! What do you use now?
Hey David, as always thank you for the great videos! Im a little confused about your recipe and have one question: How do you set your scale to measure the alcohol in milliliters when milliliters is a volume measure? Does your scale know how much 100 ml of grain alcohol weighs? Thanks again for your videos. I'm learning a ton from you!
go to liquor store and ask a 1/2 pint of PGA...200 ml bottle is what they will give you
I believe the scale assumes 1g/ml, you should be able to convert to recipe straight across to grams. Good luck!
The scale assumes you are measuring water, so "100 ml" on the scale is really 127 ml of the alcohol. Should help others duplicate the results if they measure the alcohol by volume.
Bob Sell
Good catch. I'm glad you asked that question, I wanted to ask the same question 😎
How do you know you are getting 100% kill of mites?
Thank you for this info David. I am a new beekeeper and I am loving it, but one thing that has intimidated me even after a decent amount of research was Varroa treatment. This is exactly what I have been looking for. I really needed a schedule for treatment as well (thanks again). This video also prompted me to research if Oxalic treatment could/should be done with honey supers on (not that I don't believe you, I just want to see the science myself). I found a number of scientific studies showing that there was pretty much no Oxalic added (honey naturally has Oxalic in it) while supers were present. Also, MANY vegetables we eat every day have decent amount of Oxalic acid in them naturally.
EDIT: Please keep the videos coming, so much good info here on youtube from you and a number of others. I'm just consuming all of your experiences :D
did it work?
David, I appreciate your swift comment returns. My 2nd Question is have you herdof any built up resistance with either oxalic acid or mineral oil treatments?
I lost both hives in the Fall within two months of trying this. I think the fogging machines did not work reliably and injected too much alcohol. No bees left at all! Would stick with just oxalic dry heated to vapor.
David thank you for your quick and helpful answer as always!
I noticed the fog wasn’t thick so I refined your recipe I added 1/8 cup of PEG propylene ethyl glycol to the mix and now it fogs the solution well. With thick lingering fog.
When you said "You can pour out a little bit", I expected to hear a little "sluuurp!". :)
But seriously, that looks like it would kill a LOT of bees!
You might mention flushing the fogger out with straight alcohol or something after treating the hives! I bought one and it worked great...once! Now I have to see if I can take it apart and clean it out,
I just got this whole set up but Im in Japan. I had top get a special adaptor so I could attach the propane tank. Im having a little problem getting the fogger to stay lit. But the treatment was fast. I treated 12 hives in about an hour and that included mixing the oxalic acid and taking off the hornet traps. We have giant Japanese hornets here. They are a nightmare.
Awesome and very informative video! I am actually getting started with beekeeping and am currently located in Medellin, Colombia. Quick question...do I treat my honey supers as well?
Barnyard is using 25 grams of Oxalic which would mean that each jar should only be able to spray in 12.5 hives with the recommended dose of 2 grams per hive.
With that much liquid left in the jar there is no way those hives are getting anywhere close to 2 grams a hive.
Has anyone ever seen one of these fogger acid treatment videos where the beekeeper gives you a before and after mite washes? I haven't. Why is that? Without numbers this treatment method efficiency is in question. In fairness we plan to try this in the spring an actual measure the results.
From my own fogger experience over the years YOU HAVE TO PAUSE 30 TO 60 SECONDS FOR THE FOGGER'S COIL TO HEAT BACK UP. Or your are just spitting liquid alcohol not "fog".
Some people use formic acid mixed diesel alcohol, but this effect does not seem to be very good. They say that direct injection of formic acid is more effective and in the absence of eggs. Another method uses formic acid mixed with sublimed sulfur and blown into the box.
I've also seen you can mix the acid in distilled water instead of alcohol, what is your thought about that
David, I caught a large swarm and put them in a 10 frame hive. Is it advisable to use oxcilic as treatment before the hive get going?
Since milliliters is a fluid unit of measure, how can to tell by weight unless you know the specific gravity of the fluid you are weighing?
I’m asking because most kitchen scales have pounds or grams.
What I was thinking.....it's best to measure the volume of liquid in a calibrated beaker or something
Have you continued this method with fogger and continued to have success?
Same question.
@@hilldaflyer4593 same question but no one give updates sadly
@@blackberry5908 I've asked around and the closest answer I've gotten is that the fogger is not an approved method of delivery. With the battery opperated Instant Vap and ProVap, the delivery system is approved and so I doubt others will advocate to use a "non-approved" delivery system on a public forum.
As of 4/12/22, is this still your preferred method of treating mites? PLEASE RESPOND ASAP. Thanks
We use the provap 110 using oxalic acid now.
I was all set to try this method and the state bee inspector said absolutely not to use it. Just buy the pan and do the vaporizer - no alcohol at all.
Ever tried a green drone screen. Mites prefer the drone bee becasue they incubate longer and can hatch more mites. So get you a $5 green drone frame place it 3 away from ctr of hive and put it in the freezer just before the drones hatch each time they fill it. No chemical option. Works well.
Hi David I am looking for the connection size for the propane as I am struggling to find the cylinders in the uk. any ideas
Hello, I have that kind of fogger since last season and I use oxalic acid and glicerin (liquit) , it is true, it is a very cheap and quick method and bees looks ok after treatment but With "my mites" (I live in Chile South America ) I had to increase much more the dosis (800 g O. A. / litre glycerin) to kill mites in a good rate. I'd like to see an alcohol wash test before and after treatment.
My concern is also the effect on very young bee larve.
Anyway, good video
Keep posting
Kind regards from Chile 🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱
I like the idea of glycerin. It would smoke well
Hola Felipe. tengo ese sublimador, traté con 100 ml de alcohol al 95% y 25 gramos de acido oxalico, aveces se incendiaba en la piquera cuando la acercas demasiado, además de que no sublima bien, no sale bien sublimado. quiero verificar con oxalico y glicerina, estuve buscando las proporciones de la mezcla y eres la única persona que lo ha descrito. te agradecería si me envias el link de alguna pagina donde se pueden ver las proporciones de las mezclas además de tus conocimientos.
love your videos please keep them coming they are great
Did I miss something? Are all these hives without the supers when you applied treatment?
Where did you get the grain alcohol and why heat it up before use?
Hi david vince in northern illinois, how soon can i start this in the spring ? and can i just do it once a month all summer ? and then once a week for a month in the fall , i talked to you a month ago on joes bee chat about my hive dying im thinking the mites might of had something to do with it, please let me know thanks
vince.
What do you do with the leftover mixture?? Does it separate during if you store the leftover mixture??
I also found the black flag unit you were talking about on Amazon. I guess the two biggest differences would be the click starter like on a grill and you pour your fluid into the machine not using a jar. I am going to purchase one of those foggers. I'm leaning toward the one in your video because the jar would give me the ability to use different types of chemicals.
It's 100 percent on the bees in the hive but not on the capped larvae where most of the mites reside or the bees not in the hive
It can be very close to 100% if done in the winter when there is no brood production and all the bees are in the hive. A good way to start out the new year.
The point he was getting at is that it breaks up the life cycle.
That's why you do it once a week for 4 weeks to insure you get those during the complete brood cycle
David hello, another beginner question please. In California 190 proof Everclear is illegal and there is a few places that have a bottle of 150 proof Everclear still left on the shelf. Will the 150 proof still work or be as effective? Maybe a simple question but just want to make sure not to make any mistakes. (Any more mistakes!) Again thank you for your time and help with all that are trying to get started in the bee business.
Best Regards
What does that do to your honey, I mean if you have to wear a mask and gloves to handle it, it can't be good for your honey.
Ok, thanks for the quick reply.
Some states require removal of honey before treatment
Dianna Boykin I'm a know nothing person here to learn. I find it hard to believe there would be no residue or Off taste to the honey if it wasn't removed first?
It's not that bad. In Vapor-form, Oxalic acid dissipates rather quickly and has nowhere NEAR the kind of concentration necessary to reach short-term exposure limits. As an Anhydrous Acid, it's primary solubility is in Alcohol/Alcohol Derivatives, meaning it's not going to bond to moisture in or around the hive. As such, it's not going to "taint" the honey, let alone be capable of penetrating the wax-caps over the honey cells.
It's perfectly safe unless you spray it UNDILUTED in HEAVY AMOUNTS around people/pets without respirators.
www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926346
That does NOT mean that it CAN'T cause harm. The effects of toxicity from over-exposure to Oxalic Acid can damage your nervous system, damage your kidneys, devastate your respiratory system and more. Just like Radiation; Know the exposure limit, take preventative measures to limit your own exposure and those around you, and make sure you use an amount that does NOT harm anything around the intended target.
The varroa mite is easily dealt with by hive design. If you keep your bees in thin walled hives with all the environmental integrity of a cardboard box the varroa mite will thrive. Change that and the mite will fade away.
It is well known that the varroa mite does not do well in a humid environment. (The precise mechanism is not known to me). If you put the bee entrance at the top of the brood chamber immediately below the queen excluder a VIBEZ (Ventilated Integrated Bee Entry Zone) is formed and this will serve to make the brood chamber a humid bucket.
The only hive type that has this top entry and ventilation is the ZEST hive.
If the pupation time of the bees can be reduced this will reduce the time available for the varroa mites to mature in the brood resulting in the exponential collapse of the varroa population.
Individual pupa temperature varies over time of day and brood position.
Above 37C. the pupa die. Below 29C. the pupa die.
At 35C. it takes 10-11 days to hatch. At 31C. it takes it takes 14-15 days to hatch.
35C. is ideal. Winter time is varroa breeding heaven.
Ideally the colony external enclosure will be of an insulated material that also has a thermal weight that carries the heat of the day into the cool of the night and the cool of the night back into the heat of the day. Aerated concrete blocks are ideal having a 39 times better R value than a thin walled hive and 19 times that of a polyhive.
The ZEST DIY hive is functionally free of varroa together with the maladies and morbidities that it carries. It enables in honeybees diseases such as Nosema, Acarine and DWV. EFB and EFB have never been reported, but that may be because it is relatively rare.
As a proof of concept you can adopt these hive design management techniques to see for yourself the truth of them.
If you use 2 or 3 hits per nuc, how many on a double brood box hive? Thank you.
A side note, your nucs have filled out a 10 frame brood box and half way on second boxes. Full of bees and all stages of eggs and brood in 5 weeks. Doing fantastic! Thank you.
will this work if you reduce the recipe in like a quarter the amount you used.
You guys doing bit hard work then us I leaving carins QLD Australia far north tropical we haven't this problem finger cross it stay safe hear. Tks for really good information
Hello David always appreciate all your videos. Am using your rapid feeders now. One question please about the oxalis acid treatment. Can you do it in the winter (now) if temperatures are 60 degrees and above. We live in California where there is no snow or no extreme freezing temperatures. Would like to treat now if possible.
Thanks again
David, will 90proof vodka Work in this fogger?
And will the jar of solution keep very long? I've only got 3 colonies and treating 3 times will only use a small amount. Maybe I could reduce the it to 50ml and 14.5 grams?
Does it’s effects honey?
$76.03 at My Walmart in Eugene, OR...quite a difference from $50.00 BUT still not bad for what it does and ease of use!
Hi from the uk you say you must use grain alcohol can you be more Pacific in what sort as I looking on eBay and there are so many thanks 🙏
got it coming and thankyou for this vido you do a wonderful job
Hello, I tried this last year and it worked great! I still have a jar of the solution left from last year. Can I use this or do I need to make a new batch?
Dave, grain alcohol in a fogger? Isn't there a concern of fire with this stuff?
How is this working for you? Have you done mite counts after the treatments?
50 to60 dollars for a fogger is nothing compared to the cost of those other mite treatments.
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'll be trying this in the spring. Maybe on a nice day this early winter I'll give it a go. It's so fast I can't believe it. Just the prep work looks like a little time but that's it.
Do you treat in the summer
do you fog yours with the supers on now , they say it doesn’t really effect the honey
There are a lot of legitimate questions here that haven't been answered. I like that this process looks very convenient but before we jump on the idea, how about some facts. Did you compare numbers before and after. What was the effect on the brood. Remove honey supers? (yes) It is easy! Is it effective? Must use it at least a full brood cycle. Three weeks is not long enough.
I'm surprised no one made a comment on your veiws .most times efficient treatments go under the radar .we all try to complicate things ,making it more difficult than it should bee.most great or good ideas come from people who try things in the real world .sure it's early but development starts here .like the saying goes create a problem make it more complicated than it is ,make laws to prevent ,then sell or talk about the solutions which are money making opportunities .
Create a problem , create a cure make good to see . Meanwhile some go broke .making some people very happy indeed .
grain alcohol is an organic neurotoxin, have you noticed any problems using it as the carrier for the OA. specifically with accidental queen kills?
seems like DW might be the better choice. No risk of over-intoxication of queen or bees resulting in small die-off. Regardless, good info. Thanks.
DW. what is that?
J & B Homeliving dw is distilled water
Thank you Roger for the clarification.
Hi David Frank here from Ireland got one from wall mart cant get jar to fit it in ireland didnt use it yet will try it with yellow container
Can you use the honey for human consumption after this treatment?
Barnyard Bees thanks
In PA you must have honey removed for Ox and most all other treatments if you are selling the honey.
Of course no. Dont be daft. No treatments are allowed when supers are on
In the US, NO YOU CANNOT USE THIS TREATMENT WITH HONEY SUPERS ON. Not only that, but this is not an EPA approved method of treatment.
Thank you sir. What scale would say is best? Doug in Denver
Super vid David! My question to you is if I'm treating with mineral oil and wintergreenoil, how often can I my hives ?
Me again I am in my 4 year of beekeeping and always used oxalic acid in a vaporiser I see your way of using oxalic acid with alcohol and thought that it would be easier instead of the way that I am doing it with a vaporiser I use gasVap and was thinking you’re fog Machine it’s far easier to do more hives
Its been a while since you posted this video and I was wondering how your mite levels have been? Does this method work and keep them low? This is the method I am going to try.
Grain alcohol in a propane fogger?...😳🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
So i did this with a new fogger and some black oily liquid kept coming out even after several pumps. Is that common? Also how do you store this? Will the OA corrode the internal parts of the unit?
well i just did mine two days ago two days later did it again and no mites where present on the second time great deal
I also have a Burgess Fogger . That said is it possible to get a more voluminous puff of treatment by removing the small nozzle or opening it up a bit with a drill ? Thanks in advance ...Rick
Just a small warning to people who do this. Don’t pump the trigger to many times inside one hive. In one of my hives I pumped the trigger multiple times and my hive filled with alcohol vapors. Well those vapors ignited off of the fogger and it literally blew the lid off my hive. I killed a bunch of bees but the queen survived and I’ll go in the hive in a few days to see if they recovered and are going to make it.
Nice video. Thanks for sharing. How would you do this treatment when in the honey flowing season?
David this is an old video I am wondering if you have changed anything in the way you are treating, are you still treating like this, if the insect fogger is holding up or if the acid makes its life short ?
Thanks for all the great videos David. I will be getting 2 nuc's 4/14 they supplier does not treat. I will of course and will be monitoring mite count with sugar shake. what would you recommend as the best way to start MAQS was what I planned after the colonies had settled in. I live zone 9a so temps will be perfect. if you agree how long after the Nuc's are installed would you say to wait to use the strips? thanks gain
So what is the difference between this and using the heater in the hive? Or do you use both?
Is it possible to save any of the left over mix in the jar?
Dave. I'm having a problem with the Burgess foggers in that the oxcilac acid is resolving the pump kit. Are you having the same problem? If not what are you doing? If so what are you doing other than replacing the pump kit? Thanks
If you make another video with your resperator, you *_MUST_* say: "Luke, I am your Father!!"
CluelessBeeKeeping THATS NOT THE RIGHT QUOTE!!
Will this work with mineral oil in the fogger ?
It's "No, I am your father!"
How many puffs would you recommend for singles and deeps? Thanks so much for sharing!
Thanks again for a great video and the on going help provided. One question to a beginner please, is the honey in the hive after a treatment still ok for consumption? If not do the bees in a hive still feed on their honey during the dearth or only storing for winter use? Naive question I'm sure but oh well. Last question I bought a few of your rapid feeders and have experienced the bees getting under the cup and dying in the feeder? It is a great way to feed sugar water! Thanks again for all your time!
last 2 weeks I used powder sugar and noticed a good amount of mites on some of the sticky boards..i cleaned the sticky boards, applied the OA as u show here...waiting to see what the boards look like now... hoping for the best....
I am extremely interested in your results, I applied sugar on one hive a few days ago, and will again, but have seen very few drop, a lot less than was on the board before the sugar was applied... I worry it may not be helping much.. PLEASE let us know
I had gave my bees a pretty good powder sugar dusting( PS.) probably more then necessary. the hives that had heavy PS mite drops also had very heavy mite drops when I used the oxalic acid. in fact I was shocked the amount of mites on a couple of the hives. most of the hives had a very light drop . a few had none.. today I cleaned all the sticky boards and am treating the ones with drops again. we will see.. I am curious if fogger is as good as the vapor method??? i will say fogger is fast and easy..will let u know how the second treatment goes.
Thanks for the update, I'm thinking it may be what I need to do.. they need time to recover before winter sets in, and about 1/2 of the leaves here are already down..
well I just checked this morning. 24 hrs latter. 12 hives.. 3 had no drop. 6 had 3 to 5.... 3 had maybe 10 . so i think next week i will treat those three with OA the rest im not going to treat with it I will just try the powder sugar then I'm done for winter with mites. . for sure going to add this to my weaponry. thanks Barnyarnd bees for ur help...
Nice will try this tonight! thanks
How long can the oxalic / alcohol mixture be stored? Does it separate?
While i use this method in certain times of the year its far from 100% effective. Anyone that does mites counts before and after will still find mites alive after a treatment.
The only 100% method is a deadout
See I was wondering why not do the treatment at night when all the bees are available for treatment
Nights would ensure they were all home and the temperature would be cooler which greatly helps when working with Africanized like me
I am amazed this doesn't have a adverse effect on the bees
What temperature outside do you suggest you treat at? I assume during winter, it can stay pretty cold. Is it OK to treat when it is 45* outside?
can I use white vinegar instead of alcohol? we don't have grain alcohol .
How long does the alcohol/oxalic mixture last?