I think what is most difficult about assessing the efficacy of mite treatments is the fact that 85% or less mite drop is insufficient. I think our best bet is multiple types of treatments used in conjunction at multiple times throughout the season. That way if there is a resistant mite that arises, we can vanquish it with the other variety of treatment. And not just 2 types of treatment, multiple different kinds of treatments used in different rotations each season. We really need to battle these mites and not give them a single foothold. All things considered, I think you have demonstrated the efficacy of OA vapor and apivar. Thanks for all your efforts. I will get some apivar for next season to add to my rotations. I hope to have at least 4-5 types of treatments I can cycle through at some point. I am beginning to think that 10 frame double deeps are needlessly brutal. I think your bee barns are better for the bees and the keepers. Lifting one large frame sounds a lot better than lifting an entire 10 frame deep. Once you factor in trying not to hurt any bees, trying to replace a 10 frame deep without crushing bees sometimes feels hopeless. Thanks always, for the inspiration.
I agree. I also think it is important to monitor mite loads regularly. Our State Apiary Inspectors recommend mite counts every 6 weeks as well as mite counts after each treatment because we can't assume that treatments work.
I tried apivar but the problem is that the chemical absorbs by the beeswax and mite get resistance to it in the long run, most beekeepers in CAlifornia uses amitraz based treatments and with the toxicity etc i use more labor intence but organic treatment (Oxalic acid doesnt leave residue in the hive and organic, i want to eat my own honey without amitraz)
Jim- now that you have gone almost a full season using wood varieties as the hive names, I have to say I don't miss the prior naming convention as much as I thought I would. Now, instead of seeing each hive as a family, I see each hive as a team, with the mascot being the variety of wood. (Go team Maple!) Together, the hives make a league. The queen bee is the head coach / manager / GM of the hive. You are the league commissioner. The only thing I haven't figured out is how to play fantasy beekeeping with the hives. ;-)
I decided not to name queens so I wouldn’t get attached to them and f they need to be replaced. What matters is the colony as a whole, hence just naming the boxes the colonies live in.
What I have seen for conjecture (and that is all it is) on problems with Apivar is that they have had some years with some quality problems. Personally, it has worked perfectly every time for me. But I have heard very large commercial operations say "it worked for years... failed entirely one year... then worked again on following years." That sounds like a product problem, not resistance.... but that is impossible to know without a lot more data.
Happy to see you go with more strips than less, 3 vs 2. Apivar is bad mouthed as becoming resistant but is constantly used under strength because it's expensive. Not many account for mites hiding under brood and the natural diminishing strength of apivar over time while that brood emerges, top it off with an initial under strength treatment and they have "resistance" . All treatments are better with less brood, fall is the best time of year to use apivar.
I found the Apivar results to be spotty. Some of our hives had great results. Others actually had an increase in mites. Tells me that the problem may be in the manufacturing end not the chemical
I can't help but think that that thieving colony had the plague and was the deliverer of doom for the others, hope everything turns out alright for November.
That is an insane drop, those treatments will definitely make a difference on your over wintering success. I like to use apivar for treatment because of the convenience. I hear some beekeepers saying that they don't work for them, but they are not from my area. Some people suggest that it's effectiveness might be due to the time of the year and humidity, temperature and all those environmental factors. I used them and it works well for me, but it's totally possible that for other people it might have not worked as well. Maybe there was a bad batch, you never know. This year I will be doing mite counts on my colonies before and after treatment for future reference, and next year I will do another treatment at a different time of year and measure the mites. To learn more about how the treatment works. I also used thymol this year and it seems to have work good too but I think it works better in heat rather than in cooler temperature. Interesting video, will definitely like to know what is the mite drop in the following weeks in those colonies. 👍
That's a pretty friken awesome mite drop :D Glad the treatment combo worked so well. I am curious, are you going to try rearing some queens from your more mite resistant hives? Its fairly simple, has a chance of spreading those mite resistant genes and replaces any aging queens as an added bonus :)
i use apivar myself. so far im satisfied with it. u used oa first then put apivar in. the oa will kill for about 3 to 4 days. so u really dont know how well the apivar is killing. next sample will tell story
Love your presentation style. I've used oxalic vapourisation for nearly a decade now (circa 150 colonies) In my experience each oxalic treatment kills mites for 2-3 days. The dead phoretic mites also drop into empty cells and it takes time for the bees to clean them out - hence why your apivar results may be enhanced 😀. Please also look at the latest research on treatment timings, you may find treating early in the year (August) may help enormously. Good luck 😃
the problem is bigger than people realize. We are running out of options, unfortunately. Some batches of Apivar seem not to work anymore. Mite resistance? or bad product consistency?
Thanks for stopping by. I like your channel. Have there been any studies on this? It seems like a meme that got out of control. I get a lot of comments and speculation about Apivar “not working”. But I also get results like these and plenty of people saying it works great. It’s hard to trust everything you hear on the internet.
i love your videos. I would like to respectfully offer you what i have learned over last 2 years about mite treatments after over a decade of being a no treatment beekeeper. Timing is important, this process will take 70-90 days to complete. To take full advantage of mite treatments i would start treating about 90 days before the first killing freeze of the fall in your area. this allows enough time to 1. get the mite numbers low enough that the mite numbers would have little effect on the colony health. 2. Then rear a generation of healthy virus free bees to replace the virus infected, short lived, and sick bees and larvae that are still present even though the mites are dead and will likely result in small winter cluster or colony loss. Supplemental feeding of thin sugar syrup and pollen suppliment will help turn over the colony population faster. It will take about 42 days to overturn the entire colony population during brood rearing. These new healthy virus free bee will now be able to raise some healthy, virus free winter bees to get your colonies thru winter with minimal losses to your winter bees. The net result is a bigger and much healthier cluster of winter bees that will be ready for spring buildup. If you wait to late to treat, it may result in very small clusters in late winter or early spring because there is not enough time to rear healthy winter bees. I wish you the best with your beekeeping.
Solid idea, might have to try something like this next year. Thanks for the idea Randall, appreciate an experienced BEEK throwing around some knowledge!
Yes. I agree with everything you said. It all makes sense on paper, but what you’re describing means as soon as my bees hit their stride, I’m removing half filled uncapped supers and starting treatment August 1. Then treatment stays in until mid September which is the tail end of the only major flow potential we have. So I’m never going to harvest honey. Honey is not top priority, but some would be nice! I had a plan all worked out to treat this August but flows and dearths and an incredibly rainy season mucked things up. I know treating now is not ideal, but my seasons with 100% and 95% survival were treated the exact same timing. There is hope.
@@vinofarm our season was terrible too, we had an extremely weird weather pattern that brough a frigid winter. Then we had an unusually wet summer which washed nectar away for weeks. We got very little honey this year in a lot of Texas. Hopefull next year will be better!
@@vinofarm Right and this is where guys like Randall and I have quite a different set of variables than you honey super wise. That is why fellas with short seasons like Ian treat before the honey flow starts then treat again late after they can remove supers. This is how mites never build to populations that can retard bees or wipe them out in their operations before they get to their late treatment and also it gives them more honey yield due to low, low mite levels during the honey flow. If I haven't said it before. Mites are a huge pain in the butt.
Hi Jim! Didn't read all the comments below, but I just wanted to add that there's also the formic acid 65% flash method that exist and actually mainly used here in Quebec. Have you heard about it ? Feels like it's simpler than vaporizing OA and it is also organic. Basically, you put a certain amount (max 20ml/deep box) on a paper towel in the screened bottom board tray and it vaporizes itself during the next 6 hours or so. And then, you repeat it like 3-4 times in the fall. This is what I did with my bees the last couple of years and had pretty good results, massive mite drops. I might test Apivar soon though...sounds interesting too. *Edit: Just wanted to add, that it's a good thing you had good results with Apivar, I'm happy for you, but still, it seems like it's recommended not tu use it as the only way to deal with varroa mites cause they could develop resistance to this molecule, just a side note. It's always good to watch your videos. Best of luck with your little wingy fellows!
Not sure if you follow Randy Oliver, but he is researching OA sponge use. You create a 50/50 mixture of OA and glycerin, heat it to 160 to dissolve the OA, and soak a Swedish sponge. Put that sponge in the hive and leave it for 40-60 days. He has seen a high degree of effectiveness in reducing mite loads. This method isn't approved by the FDA, but let's say you wanted to bleach the wood on the tops of your frames while the bees are still in the hive. ;-) I did that this year. Left it all summer, and my mite counts were less than 1% after the "wood bleaching" treatment came out. I took them out at the end of summer and then did Apiguard for the fall, and will do OAV in November and December. (zone 8b)
I watched a lot of Randy’s videos. But I’m not up for experimenting with sponges and glycerin quite yet. It will be interesting to see if they can get that concept approved. Lots of people talking about it.
On my foam hives, I have made a wooden entrance closure which fits very tight. I drilled a hole to insert the vapor heater into the closure. For less vapors escapes.
Three blind mites, they ought to write a song. I was so glad for you that you treated yourself twice (to bee sure) that you yourself werent carrying mites to your family. I dont even test for mites, I just treat because regardless of the results of a test I would treat anyway. Good video, thx.
I treat with Apivar after pulling honey supers in June. I follow up with Apiguard where needed, then touch up with oxalic in December when there is no capped brood. What matters to me is the post-treatment results from alcohol washes and whether or not the levels after treatment are below the threshold. Seeing mite drop on the IPM board is encouraging but is not definitive. I look forward to seeing your post-treatment monitoring results. Hopefully all zeros! Jeff Telander Jeff Telander
Love YOUR content. Me i just use strips. Sorry i have a large yard and i like to leave my bees alone. I put supers on then. When i take them off i put strips in before the winter bees arrive to knock down mites loads. Then i wash test about a month after. If i see THE mites are still hi THEN i gas them. If not i leave them 🐝.
This is the first year I’ve had crawlers going UP my pants. Not sure what was going on, but they were crawling right in and I had a very unfortunate sting about a month ago. Now I tie my pants to prevent that, but they’re still finding my ankles. I’m going to make some gaiters.
I wonder if you drill a hole in the back and have a pipe for the OA to travel through, and plug when not in use. That way you could vape them from the back of the hive. Update Bee Barn V5.3. Heh. . Nice seeing a mite kill. Like you said Jim, murder Mites. . Killem all. I love internet comments sometimes, you've got to get it all. Thanks for sharing.
An insert to an existing hole might be the right trick then. My theory on apivar vs OA is wholey uninformed but actually come from one of your prior videos. Mix it up. You don't want to apply a single selective breeding pressure on the mites. That only encourages the mites that are resistant to apivar to procreate. Not sure how you can rotate in other pressures and still finish the year with apivar, but i also don't think you want to start a selective mite breeding program in your bee yard. That might also be what happened to the commercial folks they did only one treatment and now they are hosting treatment resistant mites.
Thank you for not under-dosing. Apivar is bad mouthed as becoming resistant of, and it's mostly because people under dose their hives because it's a little expensive. I don't understand that at all, you wouldn't under-dose medication for yourself, or pest control spray in your home. It's not even *that* expensive, $200 for 60 strips is incredibly affordable.
Leg stings ..... wool , thicker socks , jeans ( light blue ) , two pairs of socks , calf high boots ..... use what you've got first , two pairs of socks , demin light blue jeans , calf high boots if you have them etc ...... cow boy chaps ( leather leggings )
This is great confirmation on choosing Apivar this fall to treat going into winter. This year was our first year with two hives. Acquired from two local beekeepers in Farmington Valley CT. Both did great and we had used Hopguard in the Spring. Anecdotally, it’s worked well but we didn’t do a mite count. Started Apivar last week and are seeing great result in reducing mite load. Want to give you a great amount of thanks Jim! Vicariously, you’ve been our mentor through these videos. Great stuff and enjoy the fall!
I shutter a bit thinking about the body fat damage done to the winter bees with all those mites sucking them dry. Depleting their stores normally saved for brood rearing in the spring. How much OA did you shoot in Jim? And does anyone know where Apivar is manufactured?
Its not that apivar does not work, it works great but if you don't swap it out with another chemical treatment often the mites develop a resistance and then it does not work. After 5 years of only using apivar mites develop over a 40% resistance to it according to university studies.
It's scientifically tested and documented that there is a growing resistance to apivar among certain heavily treated hives in certain commercial bee yards, but this resistance does not appear to exist among mostcommon Beekeeper hives, especially those employing mixed treatments like this. I think we're all safe to keep using apivar, especially if you mix with formic or oxalic acid.
Awesome video as always! Edit: Always interesting to see that even if your wash had a low count there are plenty lurking around that you missed. Hope you nuked them all. My typical rotation is Apivar in the spring during splits, Formic Pro when temps allow in the summer, Apivar in the fall, and now OA once the bees cluster up more.
Same here -- apivar, formic, apivar. I'm gentle with the formic pro -- one pad, with a little ventilation, when the temperatures are moderate. Overwintering rates have been excellent -- 95%+. Other than the aggressive varroa regimine, I'm really not doing anything special -- some hives go into winter a little light, no hives get quilt boxes or special ventilation, no treatments for tracheal mites or foulbrood or hive beetles, unremarkable location, plain old Italian genetics. My few losses have been queen issues -- a hive will swarm and fail to mate a new queen and need to be combined with another hive, or a queen will go drone layer midwinter. I really think mediocre beekeeping + aggressive mite treatment = 95% survival.
Great video! It is interesting to see what the other commenters do. I make OA cardboard strips for earlier in the year and put in Apivar right after the supers come off. Thankfully have had very low mite counts the last two years.
I'm happy to see these proactive steps are working, and you will have successful, surviving hives come next spring. I hope you don't see another spike in mites before the cold weather really sets in. Congrats!
I really don't see the point of the alcohol wash. You know they are there, you can do the Oxalic vape and get an idea of how bad it is on your mite board, and treat accordingly.
hey man, again I'm in same area as you, I'm a treatment free beekeeper, I got couple lines that have survived 5 years no treatments, if your interested in this let me know, cool to try out, I try to give some away in my area to propagate those lines.
They would have been dead by Christmas. There’s also no guarantee they will make it. There may already be viruses present that will weaken them. Doing all I can…
@@vinofarm what I just read on another guys idea may help. By stimulating them a little with feeding and pollen patties to rear a quicker healthy population for winter so these virus laden bees will probably die off. But maybe just maybe have some healthy ones made to save the hive.
I hate ankle stings. I bought a pair of white rubber boats, bigger than my regular size so hot air can rise out. A little hot in summer, but better than stings.
The bigger bee keepers send their hive all over the hell and over expose them to all sorts of shit. If they kept their hives in one area they wouldn't have any issues with adaption.
Since you use both treatments on the hives how can you not be sure it wasn't the OA that caused the might drop later on in the week? Also it might be a good idea to drill a small hole in the back of your hive to insert your vaporizer I see a lot of beekeepers doing this. One more question do you double dose with the OA on each hive or do you use the recommended dose? Thanks
@@vinofarm I have seen personally seen OA kill for a good 5 days after treatment... it is thought that many of the mites are killed through starvation because the OA gets on the pads of their feet .... I have seen this treating weekly with OA weekly on numerous hives cleaning off the tyvex bottom sticky board daily... I think know you are seeing a good amount of that kill from the OA later in the week....
Apivar has been my go to since starting beekeeping 3 years ago. I do not run screen bottom boards that have sticky boards, but after treating the front landing boards of the colonies are loaded with mites that the bees are dragging out. Great video.
Ya I got Apivar for my first ever mite treatment as a new beek. I was getting push back from Facebook groups so this is timely for me and I’m moving forward with my plan now. Thx
The pushback is real. I spent my first year as a beekeeper posting everything I did on TH-cam. Hundreds of people telling me NOT to treat at all! Crazy trying to wade through the chaff. Do what you think is right. Find people you can trust.
Are you testing for mites and checking your mite loads? Feeding enough heading in to winter? It's time to take a step back and look at your management strategy as a whole. Good luck figuring it out, it's never any fun opening up a dead hive.
I used Apivar and hit them with 2 OA treatments and mite load is too high. Have to hit them with the kitchen sink. Using mite away. Playing I didn't lose a queen.
@@redbarnhoneybees614 we test, and feed (when no supers) they get spirulina patties and pollen patties too. We rotate through out the year to prevent resistance...
If you don't use your personal name to nickname your hive design (which I think would be completely valid), can I suggest as a second choice "Adrian Box"?
We know that the role af a bee inside the hive change in according to their age. Is it possible that a good cleaning behavior of one hive depends on that you didn't use that hive for splitting in new nuc? I mean: the hives that have bad cleaning behavior (against varroa mite) is the hives where you took away some bees, perhaps in the cleaning period so they didn't work inside the colony and varroa mite could grow better? I don't know, I'm just asking...
I have never witnessed any significant “cleaning” behavior in any colony. My most infested colony last summer was the VSH colony… supposedly the one with varroa cleaning abilities. Not so much. Removing a queen and giving a colony a “brood break” reduces mites because the mites run out of places to reproduce for a few weeks. It’s not necessarily because the bees are busy “cleaning mites.”
had same result with formic acid... crazy ! About Oxalix Acid - you could maybe drill a hole the size of the pipe on the back of the hive and block it with a removable stick ;)
Evening. My understanding is that apistan is the one that has limited effect these days. However.... Over here in the UK, apistan was seen as the solution and the thing that worked. Everyone used it and and used it etc. The varroa evolved and apistan became obsolete. Weirdly as folk have stopped using it and other treatments have become more dominant apistan appears to be working again. The moral is that we should vary our treatments both over the year and year to year.
I'm having second thoughts now just doing OAV 3 days apart. I'm seeing mite drop after every vape but I've been wondering how effective it's been. I'll do mite washes next week to find out. Thanks for sharing!
I’m planning OAV in November after the strips come out. Just as a cleanup sweep. Everything I’m seeing about OAV is that it mostly MAINTAINS mite levels but doesn’t really drop them.
With OAV its important to do the final treatment after all brood had been hatched. The reason you still get drop is bees keep emerging with fresh mites. I do ~3 treatments total from Sept to Dec. I do the last one as late as the weather allows > 4 degrees C.
Treating with brood present will knock down the levels, its helpful but you will not get a full kill. Fully mature mites can hatch out and jump in a new cell immediately. Its very important to do the final treatment after the brooding is done.
@@vinofarm another thing I've noticed since doing 4 gram OAV 3days apart is that there is very little brood when they should be raising winter bees? I was thinking maybe all the vape treatments so close together has somehow disrupted the queens laying. Any thoughts?
@@BlanchardsBees that does sound pretty aggressive treatment. I been doing 2 grams every 5 days for 4 treatments and have been able to avoid any queen Issues. I run Russian/VSH so August and November x2 OAV seem to work for me the last 3 years.
Ideally I think you want to treat earlier in the year for your area. You want the treatment finished before the last few rounds of brood get capped for the winter. Thank you for sharing!
In an ideal world, I agree. It’s very difficult trying to manage bees coming out of spring, buildup, spotty flows, and the long post summer prep for winter when the season is only 4 months long. If I want to harvest any honey at all, it gets really challenging trying to fit in treatment. I need to find something to fit the dearth gap of early August that isn’t temperature sensitive. Formic doesn’t work for us in the middle of summer. It’s a frustrating balancing act.
Jim. great video as usual. Many of the commercial beekeepers that I have talked to that see Apivar failing is typically based on the batch they use. It seems it isn't the active ingredient that is in Apivar but the actual strips themselves. From what I am told the company that makes Apivar started a new application process and is showing some hit or miss issues with adding the active ingredient evenly between strips
I heard that, but there’s also a persistent comment I get that “mites have become resistant”. Memes spread like wildfire. I heard them all and last year decided to skip Apivar. Bad idea. I plan to use OA AFTER the strips come out to get whatever is left. But Apivar seems to be just as effective as I’ve ever seen.
That first hive with the high numbers that you couldn't test, could you do an OA treatment on them since it's obvious they have a high mite count? Or at this point is it a control for the one that you did the OA on already?
It was breathtaking. I have no illusions that this hive will be treated and be perfectly OK. There’s a very good possibility any viruses the mites carry will have weakened the colony already. Unfortunately, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Maple is my largest colony.
Is not ok to put oxalic acid on the front door, is the most secure way to kill that bees. You need to make a lower hole in the back. I like you're hives, very practical.
From Charlotte NC. I used Apivar fist week of August and removed 49 days later. Then followed up with OA and the mite drop was beyond counting 2 weeks of OA. Too many mites. I and using mite away quick strips because my temps are 50-87F this week. Mites drop is still high cleaning off check board every day. Lost all 3 hives last year and got late packages this year May so no spring treatments.
My experience with Apivar has been a bad one this year. I treated 9 hives with Apivar in Sept Oct and Nov. they went into winter strong with lots of store but I had 5 hives perish in a mild December and 2 more in January. I started treating the survivors with OAV weekly in February and have had a ton of mites drop. Maybe I hit a bad batch of strips….
I think what is most difficult about assessing the efficacy of mite treatments is the fact that 85% or less mite drop is insufficient. I think our best bet is multiple types of treatments used in conjunction at multiple times throughout the season. That way if there is a resistant mite that arises, we can vanquish it with the other variety of treatment. And not just 2 types of treatment, multiple different kinds of treatments used in different rotations each season. We really need to battle these mites and not give them a single foothold.
All things considered, I think you have demonstrated the efficacy of OA vapor and apivar. Thanks for all your efforts. I will get some apivar for next season to add to my rotations. I hope to have at least 4-5 types of treatments I can cycle through at some point.
I am beginning to think that 10 frame double deeps are needlessly brutal. I think your bee barns are better for the bees and the keepers. Lifting one large frame sounds a lot better than lifting an entire 10 frame deep. Once you factor in trying not to hurt any bees, trying to replace a 10 frame deep without crushing bees sometimes feels hopeless. Thanks always, for the inspiration.
💯
I agree. I also think it is important to monitor mite loads regularly. Our State Apiary Inspectors recommend mite counts every 6 weeks as well as mite counts after each treatment because we can't assume that treatments work.
I tried apivar but the problem is that the chemical absorbs by the beeswax and mite get resistance to it in the long run, most beekeepers in CAlifornia uses amitraz based treatments and with the toxicity etc i use more labor intence but organic treatment (Oxalic acid doesnt leave residue in the hive and organic, i want to eat my own honey without amitraz)
Μετάφραση..ελληνικά.
Jim- now that you have gone almost a full season using wood varieties as the hive names, I have to say I don't miss the prior naming convention as much as I thought I would. Now, instead of seeing each hive as a family, I see each hive as a team, with the mascot being the variety of wood. (Go team Maple!) Together, the hives make a league. The queen bee is the head coach / manager / GM of the hive. You are the league commissioner. The only thing I haven't figured out is how to play fantasy beekeeping with the hives. ;-)
I decided not to name queens so I wouldn’t get attached to them and f they need to be replaced. What matters is the colony as a whole, hence just naming the boxes the colonies live in.
👍
I, too, like the naming although beech and birch can make me second guess things. That was a good decision to switch.
What I have seen for conjecture (and that is all it is) on problems with Apivar is that they have had some years with some quality problems. Personally, it has worked perfectly every time for me. But I have heard very large commercial operations say "it worked for years... failed entirely one year... then worked again on following years." That sounds like a product problem, not resistance.... but that is impossible to know without a lot more data.
Happy to see you go with more strips than less, 3 vs 2. Apivar is bad mouthed as becoming resistant but is constantly used under strength because it's expensive. Not many account for mites hiding under brood and the natural diminishing strength of apivar over time while that brood emerges, top it off with an initial under strength treatment and they have "resistance" . All treatments are better with less brood, fall is the best time of year to use apivar.
"The only good mite is a dead one." - If John Wayne was a beekeeper probably
😂 I'm the type that visualizes a scene like this immediately, lmbo!! 😂😁
12:21 - Me, in a Chef-John-of-FoodWIshes-voice: "Heh, The ol' tappa-tappa"
I found the Apivar results to be spotty. Some of our hives had great results. Others actually had an increase in mites. Tells me that the problem may be in the manufacturing end not the chemical
I’m going to hit them with OA afterward to sweep up before winter. So far, mite drop is consistent relative to the amount of mites in the tests.
@@vinofarm A beekeeper near me uses OA August 1 every 5 days for 5 weeks. He is zone 5. He has 80 hives.
Hopefully they haven't already done irreparable damage in the hives that had the huge drops. Time will tell.
Love how the videos are coming weekly again. It is nice to see the hive maintenance and expansion. Oh yeah, you do what works for your beeyard.
I love your editing over multiple days. Whenever I see a new video from you it's very exciting. Thanks for the continuing bee sagas!
I second this. Seeing a couple weeks progress in one video is very nice.
Third! Your videos are awesome!!!
I believe that he shoots a lot of bee roll.
(ducking the incoming tomatoes!)
(Mite drop!)
@@johnabbottphotography these are too good! I just had to come back and bee here for them!
I can't help but think that that thieving colony had the plague and was the deliverer of doom for the others, hope everything turns out alright for November.
with bee drift it can happen neighbor had a dead off from mites and now got high mites in my hives from mine robbing that one he left for a week
That is an insane drop, those treatments will definitely make a difference on your over wintering success. I like to use apivar for treatment because of the convenience. I hear some beekeepers saying that they don't work for them, but they are not from my area. Some people suggest that it's effectiveness might be due to the time of the year and humidity, temperature and all those environmental factors. I used them and it works well for me, but it's totally possible that for other people it might have not worked as well. Maybe there was a bad batch, you never know. This year I will be doing mite counts on my colonies before and after treatment for future reference, and next year I will do another treatment at a different time of year and measure the mites. To learn more about how the treatment works. I also used thymol this year and it seems to have work good too but I think it works better in heat rather than in cooler temperature. Interesting video, will definitely like to know what is the mite drop in the following weeks in those colonies. 👍
It's hard for Apivar to work when big guys are pushing 12% amitraz treatments and Apivar is 3.3%.....
That's a pretty friken awesome mite drop :D Glad the treatment combo worked so well. I am curious, are you going to try rearing some queens from your more mite resistant hives? Its fairly simple, has a chance of spreading those mite resistant genes and replaces any aging queens as an added bonus :)
i use apivar myself. so far im satisfied with it. u used oa first then put apivar in. the oa will kill for about 3 to 4 days. so u really dont know how well the apivar is killing. next sample will tell story
Love your presentation style. I've used oxalic vapourisation for nearly a decade now (circa 150 colonies) In my experience each oxalic treatment kills mites for 2-3 days. The dead phoretic mites also drop into empty cells and it takes time for the bees to clean them out - hence why your apivar results may be enhanced 😀. Please also look at the latest research on treatment timings, you may find treating early in the year (August) may help enormously. Good luck 😃
We use apivar every fall and it works great. We don’t heavily treat our bees unless they need it. Grafting low mite colonies that overwinter helps.
the problem is bigger than people realize. We are running out of options, unfortunately. Some batches of Apivar seem not to work anymore. Mite resistance? or bad product consistency?
Thanks for stopping by. I like your channel. Have there been any studies on this? It seems like a meme that got out of control. I get a lot of comments and speculation about Apivar “not working”. But I also get results like these and plenty of people saying it works great. It’s hard to trust everything you hear on the internet.
i love your videos. I would like to respectfully offer you what i have learned over last 2 years about mite treatments after over a decade of being a no treatment beekeeper. Timing is important, this process will take 70-90 days to complete. To take full advantage of mite treatments i would start treating about 90 days before the first killing freeze of the fall in your area. this allows enough time to 1. get the mite numbers low enough that the mite numbers would have little effect on the colony health. 2. Then rear a generation of healthy virus free bees to replace the virus infected, short lived, and sick bees and larvae that are still present even though the mites are dead and will likely result in small winter cluster or colony loss. Supplemental feeding of thin sugar syrup and pollen suppliment will help turn over the colony population faster. It will take about 42 days to overturn the entire colony population during brood rearing. These new healthy virus free bee will now be able to raise some healthy, virus free winter bees to get your colonies thru winter with minimal losses to your winter bees. The net result is a bigger and much healthier cluster of winter bees that will be ready for spring buildup. If you wait to late to treat, it may result in very small clusters in late winter or early spring because there is not enough time to rear healthy winter bees. I wish you the best with your beekeeping.
Solid idea, might have to try something like this next year. Thanks for the idea Randall, appreciate an experienced BEEK throwing around some knowledge!
Yes. I agree with everything you said. It all makes sense on paper, but what you’re describing means as soon as my bees hit their stride, I’m removing half filled uncapped supers and starting treatment August 1. Then treatment stays in until mid September which is the tail end of the only major flow potential we have. So I’m never going to harvest honey. Honey is not top priority, but some would be nice! I had a plan all worked out to treat this August but flows and dearths and an incredibly rainy season mucked things up. I know treating now is not ideal, but my seasons with 100% and 95% survival were treated the exact same timing. There is hope.
@@vinofarm our season was terrible too, we had an extremely weird weather pattern that brough a frigid winter. Then we had an unusually wet summer which washed nectar away for weeks. We got very little honey this year in a lot of Texas. Hopefull next year will be better!
@@vinofarm Right and this is where guys like Randall and I have quite a different set of variables than you honey super wise. That is why fellas with short seasons like Ian treat before the honey flow starts then treat again late after they can remove supers. This is how mites never build to populations that can retard bees or wipe them out in their operations before they get to their late treatment and also it gives them more honey yield due to low, low mite levels during the honey flow.
If I haven't said it before. Mites are a huge pain in the butt.
👍 I do a dbl whammy in the fall. My Apivar has been in for a week….this coming week I start OAV.
Was just watching your old vids🤍 hope y’all doing ok and staying safe
Hi Jim! Didn't read all the comments below, but I just wanted to add that there's also the formic acid 65% flash method that exist and actually mainly used here in Quebec. Have you heard about it ? Feels like it's simpler than vaporizing OA and it is also organic. Basically, you put a certain amount (max 20ml/deep box) on a paper towel in the screened bottom board tray and it vaporizes itself during the next 6 hours or so. And then, you repeat it like 3-4 times in the fall. This is what I did with my bees the last couple of years and had pretty good results, massive mite drops. I might test Apivar soon though...sounds interesting too.
*Edit: Just wanted to add, that it's a good thing you had good results with Apivar, I'm happy for you, but still, it seems like it's recommended not tu use it as the only way to deal with varroa mites cause they could develop resistance to this molecule, just a side note.
It's always good to watch your videos. Best of luck with your little wingy fellows!
It’s not my only treatment method! Just my favorite. I’ll do OA after this if weather allows. It’ll be November, so we’ll see. Thanks for the info.
Not sure if you follow Randy Oliver, but he is researching OA sponge use. You create a 50/50 mixture of OA and glycerin, heat it to 160 to dissolve the OA, and soak a Swedish sponge. Put that sponge in the hive and leave it for 40-60 days. He has seen a high degree of effectiveness in reducing mite loads.
This method isn't approved by the FDA, but let's say you wanted to bleach the wood on the tops of your frames while the bees are still in the hive. ;-) I did that this year. Left it all summer, and my mite counts were less than 1% after the "wood bleaching" treatment came out. I took them out at the end of summer and then did Apiguard for the fall, and will do OAV in November and December. (zone 8b)
I watched a lot of Randy’s videos. But I’m not up for experimenting with sponges and glycerin quite yet. It will be interesting to see if they can get that concept approved. Lots of people talking about it.
On my foam hives, I have made a wooden entrance closure which fits very tight.
I drilled a hole to insert the vapor heater into the closure. For less vapors escapes.
Three blind mites, they ought to write a song. I was so glad for you that you treated yourself twice (to bee sure) that you yourself werent carrying mites to your family. I dont even test for mites, I just treat because regardless of the results of a test I would treat anyway. Good video, thx.
Hi Jim we found they just didn’t work as well as OA but I appreciate how you are very thorough
Wow that is very interesting. Thanks . Very good video.
Well done. So glad we don't have Varroa her in Australia. SHB sucks however. Fantastic content, going to miss you over your winter.
There will be barn videos and bee barn videos over the winter. I hope to keep things rolling here, but won’t be inside hives, of course. Thanks!
It brings me joy seeing thousands of dead mites
Best of luck for over wintering your bees Jim. 🤞🤞🤞All goes well for you and your Bees!!! Love watching your videos. Lots of great information.
I love watching these videos a d seeing whats working and if I ever get bees what I might want to include to do well.
I treat with Apivar after pulling honey supers in June. I follow up with Apiguard where needed, then touch up with oxalic in December when there is no capped brood. What matters to me is the post-treatment results from alcohol washes and whether or not the levels after treatment are below the threshold. Seeing mite drop on the IPM board is encouraging but is not definitive. I look forward to seeing your post-treatment monitoring results. Hopefully all zeros!
Jeff Telander
Jeff Telander
Yes. The before and after tests are what matter to prove effectiveness. Still nice to see dead mites, though.
Love YOUR content. Me i just use strips.
Sorry i have a large yard and i like to leave my bees alone. I put supers on then. When i take them off i put strips in before the winter bees arrive to knock down mites loads. Then i wash test about a month after. If i see THE mites are still hi THEN i gas them. If not i leave them 🐝.
BEES BEES BEES heck yea
The ankle sting part got me. Same thing happening here to me just 45 min East. They love crawling up my jeans and zinging me in the ankles!
This is the first year I’ve had crawlers going UP my pants. Not sure what was going on, but they were crawling right in and I had a very unfortunate sting about a month ago. Now I tie my pants to prevent that, but they’re still finding my ankles. I’m going to make some gaiters.
Good to see what mite treatment is like. As an Australian beekeeper I don't have to deal with this...yet.
You guys are very lucky!
I wonder if you drill a hole in the back and have a pipe for the OA to travel through, and plug when not in use. That way you could vape them from the back of the hive. Update Bee Barn V5.3. Heh. . Nice seeing a mite kill. Like you said Jim, murder Mites. . Killem all. I love internet comments sometimes, you've got to get it all. Thanks for sharing.
I thought about making an access hole/tunnel, but that would break the seal. Everything is built super tight and I want to maintain hull integrity!
@@vinofarm Ah, that makes sense.
An insert to an existing hole might be the right trick then.
My theory on apivar vs OA is wholey uninformed but actually come from one of your prior videos. Mix it up. You don't want to apply a single selective breeding pressure on the mites. That only encourages the mites that are resistant to apivar to procreate. Not sure how you can rotate in other pressures and still finish the year with apivar, but i also don't think you want to start a selective mite breeding program in your bee yard.
That might also be what happened to the commercial folks they did only one treatment and now they are hosting treatment resistant mites.
Thank you for not under-dosing.
Apivar is bad mouthed as becoming resistant of, and it's mostly because people under dose their hives because it's a little expensive.
I don't understand that at all, you wouldn't under-dose medication for yourself, or pest control spray in your home. It's not even *that* expensive, $200 for 60 strips is incredibly affordable.
Leg stings ..... wool , thicker socks , jeans ( light blue ) , two pairs of socks , calf high boots ..... use what you've got first , two pairs of socks , demin light blue jeans , calf high boots if you have them etc
...... cow boy chaps ( leather leggings )
This is great confirmation on choosing Apivar this fall to treat going into winter. This year was our first year with two hives. Acquired from two local beekeepers in Farmington Valley CT. Both did great and we had used Hopguard in the Spring. Anecdotally, it’s worked well but we didn’t do a mite count. Started Apivar last week and are seeing great result in reducing mite load. Want to give you a great amount of thanks Jim! Vicariously, you’ve been our mentor through these videos. Great stuff and enjoy the fall!
I shutter a bit thinking about the body fat damage done to the winter bees with all those mites sucking them dry. Depleting their stores normally saved for brood rearing in the spring. How much OA did you shoot in Jim? And does anyone know where Apivar is manufactured?
plz try aqigard Its Thyme herd based .....themol ...rather than apivars evil active ingredient
Its not that apivar does not work, it works great but if you don't swap it out with another chemical treatment often the mites develop a resistance and then it does not work. After 5 years of only using apivar mites develop over a 40% resistance to it according to university studies.
This is really good. I have had the same experience with Apivar. Late summer early fall treatment leads to better winter survival.
I just ordered apivar strips
It's scientifically tested and documented that there is a growing resistance to apivar among certain heavily treated hives in certain commercial bee yards, but this resistance does not appear to exist among mostcommon Beekeeper hives, especially those employing mixed treatments like this. I think we're all safe to keep using apivar, especially if you mix with formic or oxalic acid.
Sounds like a rapid mite treatment with acid on high load hives and stript for the long term is the better solution.
Let the evidence speak for itself!
Great job!! Love your videos!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
Thanks for the video. Long live BALBOA!
Awesome video as always! Edit: Always interesting to see that even if your wash had a low count there are plenty lurking around that you missed. Hope you nuked them all.
My typical rotation is Apivar in the spring during splits, Formic Pro when temps allow in the summer, Apivar in the fall, and now OA once the bees cluster up more.
That’s aggressive. Good job.
Same here -- apivar, formic, apivar. I'm gentle with the formic pro -- one pad, with a little ventilation, when the temperatures are moderate. Overwintering rates have been excellent -- 95%+.
Other than the aggressive varroa regimine, I'm really not doing anything special -- some hives go into winter a little light, no hives get quilt boxes or special ventilation, no treatments for tracheal mites or foulbrood or hive beetles, unremarkable location, plain old Italian genetics. My few losses have been queen issues -- a hive will swarm and fail to mate a new queen and need to be combined with another hive, or a queen will go drone layer midwinter.
I really think mediocre beekeeping + aggressive mite treatment = 95% survival.
Great video! It is interesting to see what the other commenters do. I make OA cardboard strips for earlier in the year and put in Apivar right after the supers come off. Thankfully have had very low mite counts the last two years.
In my opinion your results speaks for itself. Great information. Glad you posted your early results.
It is not important how you cleaned your mess. Important is how you got there.
Your bees are already damaged .😊
What a PITA dealing with Verroa Mite. Luckily in Australia we don’t have it
I'm happy to see these proactive steps are working, and you will have successful, surviving hives come next spring. I hope you don't see another spike in mites before the cold weather really sets in. Congrats!
They work better in your hives because you got tight fit on air circulation!🎉🎉🎉🎉
Great video Jim, thanks!
I really don't see the point of the alcohol wash. You know they are there, you can do the Oxalic vape and get an idea of how bad it is on your mite board, and treat accordingly.
Hahaha I love the title, I been looking forward to this video since I saw pictures on Instagram.
Apivar and Apiguard worked great for me.
hey man, again I'm in same area as you, I'm a treatment free beekeeper, I got couple lines that have survived 5 years no treatments, if your interested in this let me know, cool to try out, I try to give some away in my area to propagate those lines.
Dang! That's a lot of mites! Imagine how many mites there would have been over winter if you hadn't checked and treated 😨
They would have been dead by Christmas. There’s also no guarantee they will make it. There may already be viruses present that will weaken them. Doing all I can…
@@vinofarm what I just read on another guys idea may help. By stimulating them a little with feeding and pollen patties to rear a quicker healthy population for winter so these virus laden bees will probably die off. But maybe just maybe have some healthy ones made to save the hive.
I tried Apiguard and half my colony died (or left) any ideas? my queen stayed.
Apivar is fantastic but expensive - I still use it though👍
Need multiple treatment methods. I used just strips one year. Doesn't get a good mite kill.
I hate ankle stings. I bought a pair of white rubber boats, bigger than my regular size so hot air can rise out. A little hot in summer, but better than stings.
The bigger bee keepers send their hive all over the hell and over expose them to all sorts of shit. If they kept their hives in one area they wouldn't have any issues with adaption.
As always do what works best for you. Glad to see your content 😊
Since you use both treatments on the hives how can you not be sure it wasn't the OA that caused the might drop later on in the week? Also it might be a good idea to drill a small hole in the back of your hive to insert your vaporizer I see a lot of beekeepers doing this. One more question do you double dose with the OA on each hive or do you use the recommended dose? Thanks
Because OA doesn’t continue working for a week. Maybe a few days. I only did the OA on one hive. The rest were only Apivar.
@@vinofarm I have seen personally seen OA kill for a good 5 days after treatment... it is thought that many of the mites are killed through starvation because the OA gets on the pads of their feet .... I have seen this treating weekly with OA weekly on numerous hives cleaning off the tyvex bottom sticky board daily... I think know you are seeing a good amount of that kill from the OA later in the week....
@@ECP Also the sheer number of mites. That hive had a 23 mite count in the wash. More mites in the hive, more mites to kill.
Your vail is awesome! Looks like it give good visibility. Where did you get it?
Apivar has been my go to since starting beekeeping 3 years ago. I do not run screen bottom boards that have sticky boards, but after treating the front landing boards of the colonies are loaded with mites that the bees are dragging out. Great video.
Thanks!
Ya I got Apivar for my first ever mite treatment as a new beek. I was getting push back from Facebook groups so this is timely for me and I’m moving forward with my plan now. Thx
The pushback is real. I spent my first year as a beekeeper posting everything I did on TH-cam. Hundreds of people telling me NOT to treat at all! Crazy trying to wade through the chaff. Do what you think is right. Find people you can trust.
i want your build for you hives i like them can you send them to me please
I used apivar this year and had great results. 0 mites in alcohol washes after
I treat multiple times and rotate products, I still have heavy losses
I’m going to do OA after Apivar is finished. Hitting them with everything I’ve got.
Are you testing for mites and checking your mite loads? Feeding enough heading in to winter? It's time to take a step back and look at your management strategy as a whole. Good luck figuring it out, it's never any fun opening up a dead hive.
I used Apivar and hit them with 2 OA treatments and mite load is too high. Have to hit them with the kitchen sink. Using mite away. Playing I didn't lose a queen.
@@redbarnhoneybees614 we test, and feed (when no supers) they get spirulina patties and pollen patties too. We rotate through out the year to prevent resistance...
If you don't use your personal name to nickname your hive design (which I think would be completely valid), can I suggest as a second choice "Adrian Box"?
We know that the role af a bee inside the hive change in according to their age.
Is it possible that a good cleaning behavior of one hive depends on that you didn't use that hive for splitting in new nuc?
I mean: the hives that have bad cleaning behavior (against varroa mite) is the hives where you took away some bees, perhaps in the cleaning period so they didn't work inside the colony and varroa mite could grow better?
I don't know, I'm just asking...
I have never witnessed any significant “cleaning” behavior in any colony. My most infested colony last summer was the VSH colony… supposedly the one with varroa cleaning abilities. Not so much. Removing a queen and giving a colony a “brood break” reduces mites because the mites run out of places to reproduce for a few weeks. It’s not necessarily because the bees are busy “cleaning mites.”
Hi, thas the OAK hive facing sout?
had same result with formic acid... crazy !
About Oxalix Acid - you could maybe drill a hole the size of the pipe on the back of the hive and block it with a removable stick ;)
Thank you for posting about this!
It doesn't seem like all that "Easy" of a VAP.
I love the smug look on your face at the end
Where's a good place to get those big metal entrance discs that you're using in the feeding/vent chamber? All I can find are the smaller ones. Thanks
If you click the link in the description, the ones I used are in my Amazon shop.
Drill a hole in the back of the box and you can treat them without a suit on
Evening. My understanding is that apistan is the one that has limited effect these days. However.... Over here in the UK, apistan was seen as the solution and the thing that worked. Everyone used it and and used it etc. The varroa evolved and apistan became obsolete. Weirdly as folk have stopped using it and other treatments have become more dominant apistan appears to be working again. The moral is that we should vary our treatments both over the year and year to year.
Yes. The key is multiple methods during the year.
I'm having second thoughts now just doing OAV 3 days apart. I'm seeing mite drop after every vape but I've been wondering how effective it's been. I'll do mite washes next week to find out. Thanks for sharing!
I’m planning OAV in November after the strips come out. Just as a cleanup sweep. Everything I’m seeing about OAV is that it mostly MAINTAINS mite levels but doesn’t really drop them.
With OAV its important to do the final treatment after all brood had been hatched. The reason you still get drop is bees keep emerging with fresh mites. I do ~3 treatments total from Sept to Dec. I do the last one as late as the weather allows > 4 degrees C.
Treating with brood present will knock down the levels, its helpful but you will not get a full kill. Fully mature mites can hatch out and jump in a new cell immediately. Its very important to do the final treatment after the brooding is done.
@@vinofarm another thing I've noticed since doing 4 gram OAV 3days apart is that there is very little brood when they should be raising winter bees? I was thinking maybe all the vape treatments so close together has somehow disrupted the queens laying. Any thoughts?
@@BlanchardsBees that does sound pretty aggressive treatment. I been doing 2 grams every 5 days for 4 treatments and have been able to avoid any queen Issues. I run Russian/VSH so August and November x2 OAV seem to work for me the last 3 years.
Ideally I think you want to treat earlier in the year for your area. You want the treatment finished before the last few rounds of brood get capped for the winter. Thank you for sharing!
In an ideal world, I agree. It’s very difficult trying to manage bees coming out of spring, buildup, spotty flows, and the long post summer prep for winter when the season is only 4 months long. If I want to harvest any honey at all, it gets really challenging trying to fit in treatment. I need to find something to fit the dearth gap of early August that isn’t temperature sensitive. Formic doesn’t work for us in the middle of summer. It’s a frustrating balancing act.
Hello thank you for the video....where did the hives come from I mean where do you purchase one or is it home made.....Josie
I made them! See here: th-cam.com/video/z768OIA3bMo/w-d-xo.html
Do you completely plug up their entrance?
Jim. great video as usual. Many of the commercial beekeepers that I have talked to that see Apivar failing is typically based on the batch they use. It seems it isn't the active ingredient that is in Apivar but the actual strips themselves. From what I am told the company that makes Apivar started a new application process and is showing some hit or miss issues with adding the active ingredient evenly between strips
I heard that, but there’s also a persistent comment I get that “mites have become resistant”. Memes spread like wildfire. I heard them all and last year decided to skip Apivar. Bad idea. I plan to use OA AFTER the strips come out to get whatever is left. But Apivar seems to be just as effective as I’ve ever seen.
I know it's the Vino Farm, but everytime I laught at his shirt because it says Vinof Arm
Yeah, the keming was off at the patch company.
That first hive with the high numbers that you couldn't test, could you do an OA treatment on them since it's obvious they have a high mite count? Or at this point is it a control for the one that you did the OA on already?
I’m letting the Apivar run it’s course. Hoping to hit everyone with at least one good shot of OA after I take the strips out in November.
Just did apivar and kill a lot of mites and 3 days
Great video. Very informative.
Holy Maple Mites, batman! It is so satisfying to see all those mites on the board, though
It was breathtaking. I have no illusions that this hive will be treated and be perfectly OK. There’s a very good possibility any viruses the mites carry will have weakened the colony already. Unfortunately, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Maple is my largest colony.
Is not ok to put oxalic acid on the front door, is the most secure way to kill that bees.
You need to make a lower hole in the back.
I like you're hives, very practical.
why treat oak if it didn't have mites?
You treat the apiary as a single entity. Everyone gets treated.
@@vinofarm oh
I've never lost colony I've treated with apivar in aug. Trick is getting them tight first why I wait until aug to do my summer splits
From Charlotte NC. I used Apivar fist week of August and removed 49 days later. Then followed up with OA and the mite drop was beyond counting 2 weeks of OA. Too many mites. I and using mite away quick strips because my temps are 50-87F this week. Mites drop is still high cleaning off check board every day. Lost all 3 hives last year and got late packages this year May so no spring treatments.
Iam new to be keeping but is to many mites this time of year. I guess what i am saying is the damage already done. Like all nasty things mites bring.
We will see,.,
My experience with Apivar has been a bad one this year. I treated 9 hives with Apivar in Sept Oct and Nov. they went into winter strong with lots of store but I had 5 hives perish in a mild December and 2 more in January. I started treating the survivors with OAV weekly in February and have had a ton of mites drop. Maybe I hit a bad batch of strips….
VARROA MITES LIVES MATTER!!!--- LOL!!