Does Petzl's Wire Lock locking carabiner hold up to other climbing carabiners?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- We broke 12 locking carabiners all lined up from weakest to strongest. They did not break in that order though! These carabiners have different gates and we show them to you before breaking them. It's a hybrid between a buying guide and teaching what HMS lockers are and just pure edutainment. I think it helps trust carabiners you trust your life to, when you see HOW they break, not just a number printed on the side.
Our lowest broke at 20.82kN and our highest broke at 31.88kN. Please don't make strength a main purchasing decision, use and shape and function and size, etc are good things to consider. They are all super good enough!
This is a great video by Kong showing what happens if you load the gate side of an HMS carabiner • Kong Backstage Tips:MO...
Watch the first video at • Guess which carabiner ...
👉 Learn and SHOP at www.hownot2.co...
👉 Best EMAILS on Earth: www.hownot2.co...
👉 SUPPORT US and get gear discounts hownot2.com/su...
👉 10% off ROCKY TALKIE by clicking www.hownot2.co...
Intro
00:22 Showing the carabiners
03:39 Breaking them
14:37 Final Carabiner Destruction
I love how the Petzl is basically ruined after the first test, yet it finishes 3rd and just keeps holding despite being trashed. Probably the best advert for Petzl I've ever seen.
*What's the rationale for this $27 caribiner? A 5mm ring of stainless steel wire is as strong as 1cm of aluminum? Do we wait for the all wire version that looks like it's made of paper clips?*
*note: "The WIRE-LOCK increases the lifetime of the product when used intensively, compared to classic locking systems."*
Petzl result was very interesting. Wonder if this was a design feature or a happy coincidence. I suspect irl your lead wouldn't be too happy if they pointed out the biner was open and you assured them that as long as they fell hard enough it would close itself...
I'm pretty sure petzl doesn't recommend this biner for climbing. I think it's for via ferrata
Most likely not intentional. It's a via ferrata carabiner and as such it's only designed to take one (but hard) fall. If you fall on a via ferrata (DON'T), the shock absorber will tear open, slowing your fall, but after that, it's garbage and you need to buy a new via ferrata kit anyway.
@@SethSchneiderw Yeah, it's for via ferrata. Not as nice as the biners that you unlock with your palm though. For via ferrata, where you need to open them quickly, a fall is unlikely to begin with and you're attached with two biners 95% of the time it's secure enough, but for belaying probably not. It's kind of similar to a slidelock biner (which are already a bit sketchy), except the "slider" is far more exposed, with an even higher chance of a rope accidentally opening it.
Petzl has the most advanced lab for gear testing. Also they finance many PhD programs about alpinism and climbing security through their foundation. Many engineers in the company work using FMECA and dependability methods. They probably know the outcome of any test we could imagine (and see on this channel or on hard is easy) and they also anticipated the risk for the climbers in case of any kind of misuse of their gear.
The last few were the most impressive because they were stressed out quite a few times before they actually got to their breaking point which would lead me to assume that they could be stressed out beyond their breaking point if they were done individually
Right at 8:02, there's an angle that shows a fascinating thing happening with the Petzl: Inertia! The lock opens because the linked 'biners are recoiling, and yanking the Petzl too fast for the spring to keep it closed. The slider hangs suspended in place for a moment while the rest of the 'biner goes leftwards, and the lock is opened. If you had rigged the Petzl the other way around (relative to which carabiners were breaking first) inertia would have kept the lock closed instead.
That's really cool!
(Period and comma keys advance and rewind single frames when paused)
The test would have been more accurate to run them one at a time rather than stressing them multiple times. I wonder if there would be a difference in winner. 🤔
Well they all take the same stress until they're eliminated, so comparatively at least it works
If they were all made of steel this would be true but aluminum and aluminum alloys are a much different metals. There is absolutely gonna be microscopic stress fractures in all of them after the first pull. But I see where your coming from I just think the results would be different if done one at a time. I mean cmon these things have literally lives depending on them so wouldn’t you like to know which would save your ass in a fall lol
@@m00seknucklejohnson45 Of course I would, but we're not always climbing on new gear. Granted as destructive testing goes it's not exactly real-world stressing but it is equal stressing and for what this test is I think that's the important bit. Because it's not really their normal test of breaking strength as much as it's a test of how the gear handles repeated high stress events
I mean seeing how they looked between rounds, that's what I really took away from this
I want my gear to look like scrap way before it fails, but some of those took a beating and didn't really show the damage they'd picked up
They literally said they aren't trying to be scientific.
I guess I missed it, but which one is the strongest ?
I would like to see them tested individually
I think it would be cool to see the price point of each one along with its breaking strength.
Like a dollars per kn rating or something would be cool
Now you're getting close to Project Farm level. I like it.
Doesn’t make sense, they are different styles and are made/optimized for different things. It could well be that the most expensive one fails at the lowest force.
Black diamond is the only brand my local shop carries (not a lot of options) and I am really happy to see it do so well here. They’re all I’ve got!
I’d like to see the weight along with the breaking point.
Putting a quick link of the same size between each could help get a little more consistency. Right now they are all connected to different diameters. Probably doesn’t make a difference, but for those of us still pretending that we are doing real science it would be nice 😊
What do you mean, weight along with breaking point.
@@elmeradams8781 I meant I’d like to see the weight of the carabiner.
@@jskemp4 oh right. I think they did that last time with the wire gate caribeaners.
I use those green mad rock carabiners everyday at work, good to know they’re super SUPER good enough
The Petzl were honestly impressive.
And te fact it would fail inspection but still lasted as long as it did is honestly a worth while "feature". Since better see that the gear have been through an excessive amount of load in its life rather than have something that looks and works just fine but could be on the edge of breaking. Fractures in aluminium isn't something to toy with after all.
Under my experience, those petzl are great for via ferrata for customers.
I used CT for years as a guide, and loved them. Also petzl attache were sexy.
I want to start a conspiracy that Petzel designed that carabiner to act this way when pulled. It was hard not to watch it everytime you ran the test.
The Vertigo has a special feature, were you can not open the Gate, while the carabiner is under load. This is achieved by thight tolerances and a small Deformation, as soon as it is put under load. So yes, this is likely a result of that design and also the reson why this carabiner is super Popular for Zip Lines in aerial adventure park - which is the role it was originaly designed for, before beeing also adopted for Via Ferratas
Makes since to have a visual indicator to show that the carabiner had failed.
I used to work with overhead cranes. There was two things I looked for when a hook had failed. There was a Grove in the eye or in the hook. And the other was where the clip that sat against the hook.
If the clip sat at the tip of the hook, then the hook is about to fail.
I think that mad rock would be good enough to not only hold my keys and myself, but also my compact car where ever I go.
This is nice to watch. I don't use any of these items but it's still interesting.
On the slow mo, put an arrow on the one that is going to fail before it fails, and slow down the slow mo. It's super cool!
I'm not on the toilet. I'm at my desk, not doing the work I'm being paid for, by the hour.
Damn, now I definitely want that Madrock HMS.
Mad rock FTW. I used them working as a canyoning guide for many years, I loved them. Heavy duty guys, gate always working, i just love them. Good to see they're also strong :) mines put down hundreds of people :)
Though interesting to watch, it’s obvious that a fair comparison would only be possible if you tested every single carabiner in a defined situation. A soft shackle between the biners could be a solution. However, the way you did it is the most fun 🤩
Yes, although I think, sometimes, that the channel would benefit from at least a more rigorous discussion of method. Done right, I think it would actually up the fun factor.
1:10 I'm not sure what the official name for that shape is but if I had give it one it would probably be half pear because well... it looks similar to a pear cut in half
~pushes~ ~shudders~ ~wipes~
Thanks for the infotainment
Great to see AustriAlpin on the show! Would love to see more of their stuff 🤩
Will be grabbing more Mad Rock biners, I've always assumed their stuff is junk but this is pretty impressive.
Actually, every carabiner with T-shaped nose, came out form CT's factory (no matter what brand is printed on it). CT has that nose shape patented and brands like Singing Rock just resell it to fill-up their product portfolio.
That is interesting.
I think connecting the biners in this way might puts less force to the ones in the middle.
True given the there’s likely a stretching which reduces the load
Thats not how force works... All of them experience the same load.
If you are working with AustriAlpin go for the Rockit screw gate. It's small, cheap (at least in europe) and strong AF!
I have a feeling if you connect them in different order, the result will also change.
Would the results be different if there were some rope between the carabiners? I imagine the metal-on-metal contact spot can be quite small, doing funky things to the forces. Rope might distribute the contact force a bit better.
Interesting. But the ropes they are made for would break first.
Love the cut scenes at the end. Bring your brother back too! 😂
I love these. Nice to see this stuff working as I want it to.
Every time you apply load to the carabiners, you stressed and deform it due to the load is over the elastic point of the material and beyound of that point (break point). So wen you try again to break it, the deformed carabiners will support less load than before (the strain hardening occur after the first test in all carabiners). All carabiners except the first has at least the capability of 20KN.
We use those petzl carabiners at work and they take alot of abuse and are really intuitive to use
Hey Ryan! When are we going to see more drop tower videos? Really hoping you’ll revisit some old stuff broken on the slack snap and see if it’s different on the tower. Thanks for everything!
i was gonna ask the same thing 😂 hope he didn’t waste all that time and money to not use it
I'd love to see how different weblocks deal with shock loading
Yes, literally editing videos on that right now. It proved to be very time consuming and time limiting. To break something on it takes 5x as long as slacksnap and requires a lot more help PLUS really good weather. For example the cam video I'm editing was tricky to mount a cam holder and we found we can't use low stretch items with only a 90lb weight because it requires a much faster load cell than LS3. I have a faster one but I'm not sure how to incorporate it into some tests yet as I can't have it fall with sample since it has a cable coming out. My solution right now is to drop a whole lot of weight on something "stretchy" like a climbing static rope. But the learning curve on just a detail like this can take half my lab time I allot for banking up a bunch of break tests and only produce one video of content rather than 3 a day I can get on the slacksnap machine. Don't worry, I got gold coming out!
@@cmeister1265 See my response to no213. I'm definitely using it but it doesn't produce as much content for the same amount of time, so it looks like I'm barely using it. I'm not going anywhere and once I get a system dialed to where I can break 20-30 tests in one day with 2-3 helpers, then we can pump out the content.
@@HowNOT2 awesome thank you Ryan! I understand it is super complex, way more than I understand. And you obviously put a lot of work into what you provide for us. You have been instrumental in me growing as a climber, alpinist, and SAR member, thank you so much!
I would love to see a biner-break showdown like this done on the drop tower. It's amazing to see just how different the dynamic break is, compared with the slack-snap. Maybe you'll get wildly different results, even if you have the same string of biners.
@HowNOT2
Can you test the "C.A.M.P Atlas 3Lock" Carabiner? It's a triple lock, rated for 40kN closed, 10kn side and 13kN open.
We use this for anchors so would be great to know how accurate the high rating is, definitely one of the highest we've seen for an Aluminium Alloy
I suggest you research "low cycle metal fatigue". Individual tests would prevent low cycle fatigue.
If you removed the large amount of elasticity from your test rig it would reduce the amount of stored energy, this would make testing far safer as the speed of projectiles would be reduced.
When you think about the average climber taking a whipper and only reaching between 4 to 6 kn, i would think that any of those would do for more than a dozen falls. The fact that all of those reached at least 20 kn progressively as the one before broke speeks pretty highly to all of them.
I would like to see the same test run individually to see if the results would be the same.
Also, on a drop test, it will be better compared to a real-life situation. A slow stretch like that could, in theory, result in skewed numbers than a suden snap.
Read the first hundred comments: 2 things stand out; 1) individually test each carabiner 2) most important finding got Not a single comment; after stressing some fail to open. Imagine yourself on a wall permanently locked into inoperable biner! … what’s left of you after catching a 2 ton fall! Manufactures are now liable for entrapment! Good work!
Favorite channel on TH-cam
Was hoping to see a Rock Exotica carabiner in the line up. I am curious to see how one would hold.
Me too
Yup at 3:38 as you pan down the line you can see all the screwgates are unlocked. Does that really affect the strength tho? The nose geometry should engage regardless if it's locked, but maybe at high loads the keylock design could slide apart. Wiregates (as I've noticed in your other videos) seem to work the opposite in that the more elongated and bent they get, the hook geometry on the nose becomes a steeper angle and holds onto the wiregate even tighter!
Also 9:58 I love Bobby's dad humor, "singing the blues, now" haha
Carabiner work like hooks. Most if not all the load is carried in the main body. The locking mechanism is there to prevent the line from coming out. If the closing mechanism actually carried a load then the Carabiner would fail at the lock.
I don’t climb so have no use for massively strong carabiners but I sure enjoyed watching you destroy a bunch of them.
you know what'd be interesting? if someone made a composite carabiner. an aluminum carabiner with a steel wire core using the same gage wire as the wire-gate devices. it would be interesting to see if that gave anything extra when the device failed.
20 kN is still 2 tons. You would need quite a lot of weight drop for a considerable distance to get that strong a pull.
I'm American
Well being in rescue service 40 Kn is a G rated biner and is used in technical scernio s and is important to me.
Just bought the SEPEAK -S-503D rated at 30kn I do more industrial rope access . Sure would like to see what it breaks at before I use them . Love ur testing showed
I like the petzl and black diamond brands myself with petzl being #1 & black diamond being #2 in my opinion,,,,very good stuff 👍 👌
For the first time in a while I don't see the video on the toilet
I sell fall protection such as aluminum single and double locking carabiners as well as pulleys. Come from Taiwan I would love to see our product tested like this
You guys are doing Gods work! Thanks so much for the impressive content. Subscribed & tipped, from Australia 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Have you tested any of the rock exotica tri actions? wondering if they would stay functional longer with down and turn style locks?
Would you test ground anchors please?
Anything from standard spikes and stakes (15-25cm) through DIY rebar-stake (25-45cm), long timber nails(30cm), 20/30mm angle bars (30cm), U-shaped nail/rebar, flat bar, push-in ground anchors (both commercial and DIY) etc.
What holds best (lawn, sand, clay) and at what angle?
Application would be tree-less hammock with poles, vehicle recovery (winch) or extreme tent/camping weather scenario.
Thanks ;)
Awesome video. Find these very interesting. Not a climber but love science lol. :)
“Don’t forget to wipe” is funny! That’s a new one. Lol
8:29 “Permashut”; surprised so many calloused hand experts all missed this beautiful outcome…
Love the editing on this video
Good video. Thank you
Have you tried to test used carabiners?
Spesso, in Italia si vedono le foto di moschettoni di sosta usurati. Si dice di fare attenzione, però non ho ancora visto nessun video che mostri la tenuta di un moschettone usurato dal passaggio della corda
I would prefer to see each one tested separately for more accurate evaluation :)
I have not done any climbing but use climbing gear and carabiners for tree work and I have never had anything break because of massive weight and the only time the nano climbing rope breakers is after it’s been sliced in a spot and even then they last for a long time.
I have climbed many huge trees to cut and lower massive chunks that have to be carefully lowered to the ground because there close to homes and such and never had any gear brake under the stress of hundreds f pounds swinging and have had some of the ropes and carabiners for years without issue.
There pretty damn expansive ropes that cost up to $500 and worth every penny.
You need to do a video of the open broke ones being tested.
Have you done a harness test, breaking belay loops?
Excellen and informative as always. Welcome to the new person as well.
Bobby is such a funny guy
❤❤
Would have loved to see the grivel Tau
I love these videos so much.
You should pair up with the slow mo guys . Get some real slow motion of these breaking.
It would be great to see what force the Mar Rock would sustain when new - ie not subjected to several recent near-lethal tests.....
Always entertaining and informative.
If you get the chance can you try palm ones, it’s a kayaking brand but I’m interested in how they’d test
How about testing some of those 20 or 30 year old carabiners in the back of some climbers hall cupboards or garden sheds? Maybe things have got better over the years or maybe ... ?
How is that braided blue Harbor Freight rope out-pulling all those carabiners?
So that Petzl was actually second place overall, as the smaller Mad Rock broke lower. Good thing as I have those on my Via Ferrata set which hasn't been used since 2019 but will be in a month or so. I think they do the same one with the Triact gate or maybe the red double action. Interesting results
The smaller Mad Rock broke lower because it was stressed an additional time compared to the petzl one with more than its max braking load.
That's crazy 31.88kn. 7166lbs you could pick up almost 4 average size cars with that one carabiner.
You really need a shield over the opening to prevent flying debris… your gonna injure someone.
I am going to design a carabiner with bladed interior curves, so that way it will always win failure tests by shearing through the other carabiners!
What could possibly go wrong with that business model...
A little JB-weld and those'll pass inspection, right?
when you jump on that same petzl wire locking carabiner every day many times a day for work and now im sitting here watching one bend and im like FML i do wild things with them at over 300 feet every day
Call me a boomer, but I like my ol'school steel twistlock carabiners. They're definitely a bunch heavier than the climbing 'biners you get these days, but rated to industrial standards, and I use them all the time at work so I have more experience with 'em than anything else; They're just way more comfy in my hands. Plus it's a little extra workout on a long climb
Not locked right from the start! Thats why i don't do screwgates anymore, because its so easy to forget.
You guys need a perspex cover over your machine. A clamp-able shield so to speak. It would allow you to view the experiments, cut down on 'finding pieces' and increase the safety of chucks of metal flying at high speeds in random directions around the room.
We stand behind things. any cover would be one really really boring video for you to watch the top of my cover while listening to a snap.
@@HowNOT2 perspex is transparent.
"You sound like an uncle: ooh that's your nose!" 🤣🤣🤣
What is the rating for a compressing force to break a cerrified carabiner? Like with a rappel ring?
you should do oval carabiners
I wonder how Pirum screwlock does versus their autolock
I've seen those biners advertised as hms, but say bent spine hms maybe?
Nice!
I guess you don't really want to break steel carabiners.. :)
I will. John just accidentally sent me 36 locking carabiners so i had to purge all these first. I also want to test the mini biners too.
the petzl is specially made for via ferrata.
kN is used a lot and I know the metric system but does that translate to 250.000lbs/113.398 Kg of personnel and gear falling?
Cool and awesome test!
Have you guys tested helmet inpack before just like a Kask helmet .
It would be cool if you did amazon carabiners
Her laugh is great.
Have tried breaking PFAS gear for construction workers?
I wonder how a Rock exotica pirate would do compared to those
Cheering on the mad rocks!
I would take a bit of an issue about the way this test was done. Basically the carabiners that didn't break on the first pull are then subject to multiple stresses in each pull afterwards. I think it would have been more accurate to do these one at a time. I bet you would have different results, at least as far as the final breaking strength for each 'biner goes. I would not expect a 'biner that has been stressed to a high percentage of it's rating to actually get to that rating after multiple high stress pulls.
That's not a 'bug' with the testing methodology it's a feature. Part of what makes this test unique is that they're testing the failure mode under repeated stress rather than the absolute breaking strength in ideal conditions. It's interesting to know that not only will the final carabiner break at ~32kn, it will also take 11 other 20+kn falls without any issue at all.
Why not test them individually to breaking point so it’s a fair test… the highest one wins.
As you said the stronger ones are being supported by a weaker one each time down the line.
Entertainment value.
Get a 100kg weight, slap it on a rope a carabiner, climbing cams, Then throw the weight from a certain height as many times as it takes to brake something. Lets see how many "falls" those get before they fail.
What is it with all the triple action biners?? I bought several petzl OK with triple action and very soon realised it's a big mistake :( as soon as they get mud or grit they are nasty!!
I wonder how a Grivel twin gate would stack up, it has a long axis rating of 30kN.
We tested it in a similar video