they got the most pressure because they still blamed josh while apologizing the fact they don't know why Josh gave Johnny the number they didnt watch the full swoop having a platform publicly also changes the responsibilities of certain things
Adam I would like to applaud you for your insight, your dedication to making sure your thoughts and opinions are well thought out. You are very well spoken for the amount of trauma drama that you have been through at such a young age. I’m sorry that all this has happened but you sir will prevail.
PSA: *misinformation* is unintentionally spreading false information while *disinformation* is purposely spreading misinformation edit: jk while misinformation is technically an umbrella term that can denote intentional or unintentional spreading of info, in modern syntax it usually denotes unintentionally spreading info
Misinformation can be intentional or unintentional. Misinformation is “incorrect or misleading information” and disinformation is “false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth.” Source: Merriam-Webster
He got an apology so early on this summer it wasn’t enough for him because he knew it wasn’t going to give him the attention he wanted if he didn’t keep it up and start making more of it. It was 100% for social media attention.
@@vekaroni135we all know that. The context here is Josh did next to nothing to Johnny, got 3-4 apologies in private and then publicly but still kept being absolutely nasty against Josh, even stooping to the level of putting down victims of domestic abuse in the process just because Josh was one. In fact, he actively leveraged Josh’s apologies made in good faith to paint Josh as a predator. Meanwhile, all the actual victims got was an ukulele song calling them out for being toxic gossipers.
@@vekaroni135Adam has said maybe 1000 times he would stop talking about Colleen if she apologized to him and his parents so it is the case in this particular situation. but in general youre right
I would imagine Josh is so tired of being bullied into a corner, talked over and about, without ever getting a chance to tell his side properly. I can’t even imagine.
Well now he will with Swoop. We need to hold off on making him totally vindicated, even swoop SAYS she knows he did bad things too. I still don’t think all of this makes him totally innocent either. His tweet to that girl was sick and he had absolutely no business giving an underage fan his personal number. Everyone needs to stop speaking in black and white with this. Johnny lied and he used known SA survivors to platform his story, knowing Jessi’s stance on believing victims due to her awful past. John is horrific. But that doesn’t mean Josh is totally innocent either.
@@Cashhhhewi agree. I've always thought like attracts like. Why Colleen's inner circle is just a bunch of mean girls that never matured past tenth grade. Even if Joshua is naturally a good person, he was under the influence of Colleen and he admits he was an alcoholic. I know it's different in England. But in America "I'm sorry" is an admission of guilt.
@@cmhskyyeah people do awful things when they’re addicts. Not an excuse but an explanation…I don’t think he seems like some monster or someone with power like Colleen who knew exactly what she was doing He seems like he got caught up in and did bad things but he seems genuinely willing to take accountability but…we shall see 😬
@@Cashhhhew He already knows he isn’t fully innocent, but he wasn’t grooming minors. He’s taken full accountability for that tweet and he and that girl have made peace. He doesn’t really owe US anything. It’s his journey, and the people that can forgive him, either do or don’t. We’re all just here for the ride. Had Johnny never started this, Josh would be off living a quiet life with Pamela. If you’re comparing him to Johnny, you might as well be comparing him to his ex. And we’re not doing that. He’s still doing the work to be a better person.
@@gromit0299 where tf did I compare him to John? 🙄 I just said he’s not some innocent little angel that “needs protection at all cost” the way some people are flipping the script suddenly. And nah imma wait for the Swoop interview to draw conclusions the way you are.
As a victim of SA, grooming and abuse, I think that the “always believe the victim” thing has been broadly misunderstood. The point of it is that we need to stop immediately dismissing them. We need to believe our loved ones when they tell us about it. We need to treat people who make these types of allegations as if they are telling the truth, because 99% of the time, they are. Even if it IS someone you don’t know very well. But my abuser responded to me calling them what they are: an abuser, by telling everyone that I am the abuser. I’ve lost friendships over this because I didn’t speak out as assertively and loudly as she did. Very few people lie about being a victim of grooming, abuse etc, but it does happen and it is done by manipulative, abusive people to protect themselves and hurt others. Nuance people!
Adam, I feel like you should be in PR lol. The way you are able to be so self aware and also view a situation from so many viewpoints and come out with the best possible statement is a talent. Love your videos!
I understood what Josh meant by "your experience is valid" immediately. In therapy, I've learned that the way I remember certain situations may not be the way someone else remembers the same situation, and therefore how they feel about me in said situation may differ from how i felt about them. It's why having open conversation and being upfront with your feelings is so important. He was just apologizing for how Johnny said Josh made him feel, and he never admitted guilt per se. He only apologized for adding to a perceived negative experience someone had that included him. And that is valid. The part where i feel the girls here messed up, is they took the claims at face value and STILL want to validate themselves for the wrong doing on their end. They platformed Johnny, and while I understand not wanting to question a potential abuse victim, it's okay to admit fault and wrongdoing without having the need to justify your actions so heavily that the apology seems unauthentic. Like Adam said, the last 12 minutes is all they needed, everything else just made me feel like they had an L take.
Well said! I love Jessi and Lilly so much and I would NEVER blame them for being duped by that weirdo, Johnny---so many people were. What I do take issue with, is that they continued to double-down on Joshua and used his apology as some sort of justification for their original interview.
Josh is angry and hurt 100% justified. I get it, I get how people can say it was worded wrong, but he did all the things and he was still lied on and silenced. Johnny is the bad guy and left so many people burning behind him.
@@unpiiiThat’s been established so many times. SWOOP was willing to get a statement from Josh, and H3 wanted the whole picture, and was also willing to hear Josh out. These two weren’t.
@@JungianHeightsbut SWOOP said that at first she wasn't willing to get a statement from Josh - not until her team found the discrepancies in Johnny's story.
@@vekaroni135 She also said that she barely had to scrape the surface to see Johnny was lying, and as Adam said, he knew all along. SWOOP apologised to Josh with no excuses, and H3 made it right with no excuses either. As Adam said, this was fifty minutes of ifs and buts, when all it needed to be was the last fifteen minutes.
It’s better to not interview victims of any crime if you are not a journalist or a rich mofo willing to settle lawsuits. You will always run the risk of providing a platform to slander. I understand they don’t want to be held up to journalistic standards but that means they need to be careful. Interviewing requires knowledge, experience, and standards. Sorry. They have to be good researchers, like swoop. And they have to be ethical, precisely because they have a platform. P. S. Adam, your commentary is very on point. Love listening to your analysis. You received a lot of backlash for your actions but you were wise, careful, and trusted your intuition. In the end, you were right. People love to rush to judgement and then have to backpedal to Patagonia when more information comes out.
if they want to have a laid-back low-research podcast that’s fine, but only when they’re choosing to cover topics that aren’t so intense and dangerous to get wrong.
@@SarahManch this is why I'm extra disappointed in them tbh, I even commented on their video about Jonah Hill and was glad that they addressed what they would do moving forward.
i’ve always seen josh’s original apologies to johnny as more of an acknowledgment of johnny’s feelings and not necessarily an admission of guilt. It felt like he was having compassion for someone who felt hurt by him regardless of if he believes he did something wrong. and also given josh’s internet history and what he’s been through I can completely see why he felt it would be best to validate johnny and move on rather than fighting tooth and nail to disprove everything he said. In my opinion josh was coming at it from a very human place, addressing johnny person to person rather than perpetrator to victim. I think if I was in a situation in real life and not on the internet where someone was saying that they felt hurt by my actions even if I didn’t think I did everything they said I did, I might just apologize because that’s what you do when someone says you hurt them. idk just a ramble. interested to hear what josh says in the swoop interview.
I also read it that way except more in a condescending/minimizing way (when I still believed Johnny). I never thought Josh admitted to grooming, in fact I thought it wasn't a true apology since it did not mention it. I wish Jessi and Lily would just admit they jumped the gun and interpreted his apology wrong, rather than blaming Josh for his verbage.
yes it’s so obvious that the apology is just trying to help johnny move on which is the best joshua could do. it’s weird to pretend it’s an admission of guilt because it’s so clearly carefully worded to not be one lol.
It seems Jessi & Lily think that Josh should have given a more defensive, partial apology like the one they just did. But everyone would have been just as cynical about that and not seen it as a genuine apology.
I thought Josh was also acknowledging that Johnny was hurt. I was groomed and a survivor of both DA and SA, even still I thought he was genuine. Plus something that not many people are aware of everytime Johnny blasted Josh, Josh would apologize again. He did it four times.
@bavelandloxx - Also, what people are missing about Joshua's apologies is that he's a recovering alcoholic. Part of most recovery programs for addicts is to apologize to everyone you've hurt. Johnny was stating that he was hurt by Josh and Josh was attempting to acknowledge and apologize for any pain he caused. Josh did do some inappropriate things in the Colleen years and he seemed to be trying to take responsibility for that but that's not an admission to grooming. If someone is unclear what an apology is for, then they should ask, not assume.
I feel bad that Johnny put them in such a tough situation, I’ve never seen their podcast but they sound like great people who got manipulated by Johnny like so many others :(
They weren't in a "tough situation". They chose to be unprofessional (unlike Swoop & her team) & only bothered to cater to one side of the story. Joshua reached out several times to them, willing to engage in conversation. He was ignored.
Summary: "We're sorry that you are so awful, Joshua, and did so many bad things that nobody would want to hear your side of the story; we're sorry that you kept saying 'sorry' to Johnny. We're sorry Swoop took too long to get her video out, why didn't she TELL us about it? We're sorry it looks like we didn't do due diligence (although we did pretty good actually, so sorry not sorry) We're sorry *if* you think we rolled our eyes at you, Joshua" etc. This was a horrible apology that could only be made worse if there was a ukelele in it. I appreciate that you love these two creators, Adam, but my first introduction to them is this video, and I wasn't impressed. What I did like a lot was Adam's fairness and honesty in looking at the content here, bearing in mind how much he really, really likes them. I had hoped to like them too. Never say never- I should watch one of their other podcasts. Thanks Adam, a terrific video from you 🙂
One thing that really frustrates me is that they dont seem to actually read Josh's apology properly, at all. He apologises for the things he has done, things he has admitted and taken accountability for. NO WHERE does he apologise for being a groomer or any of the other lies John Silvestri spread. Just because he apologised for one thing, doesn't mean everything is true. Its so very bizarre they are even trying to argue that.
Ehm i dont know in my oppinion its quite easy to understand how they came to that conclusion. josh was being accused of beeing a groomer and he apologised (not for beeing a groomer, but he also did not deny that claim in his apology). Its just comfimation bias on lilly and jessys part. nothing more nothing less
You missed the part where Johnny only referred to Josh as a gateway groomer on their podcast, they never once said josh admitted to being a groomer via his apology, only that they felt he had admitted to having inappropriate interactions with Johnny and other child fans. I don’t recall Jessi and Lily ever calling Josh a groomer, that word only came from Johnny.
I read the apology wrongly too, I thought Josh was underestimating the relationship he had with Johnny, and apologizing cause something must had happened, and confirming things in Johnny story that make me think that the grooming was true, only that he didn’t want to say it. Why apologize so many times to someone calling you a groomer, without saying clearly "I didn’t groomed you, we didn’t even talked at all".
Another issue on "attacking" Joshua for those "blanket apologies": Joshua was in rehab. A huge part of rehab includes apologising to ANYONE you potentially harmed or hurt in the time you were using. It's incredibly weird and honestly vile to use that against him - especially when those apoligies were misconstrued and not taken at face value.. to me Jessi and Lily don't seem really apologetic, just passive-aggressive and self-defensive. Yuck.
I hate that in a strange convoluted way, Johnny has got what he’s wanted - he’s the star of the show. I really hope that swoop’s next part rounds this back to the main villain of this story, Colleen. I hate that this, what he’s done, takes away from the real victims stories and the core issues here. Still holding out for you Adam, all of this has been so unfair on you from the beginning
I have faith that Jessi & Lily will make it right after the next installment of Swoop’s documentary airs. One thing I noticed about Johnny is that he’s VERY charismatic & manipulative. I didn’t notice what a creep he was until after Swoop brought the other details to light. He DEFINITELY had these two manipulated. And unfortunately for them, there didn’t seem to be any neutral source of public info they could cite to fact check Johnny’s claims.
That doesn’t excuse their poor treatment of a possible case of grooming. That ended up a case of defamation btw… Pdta: Defamation from Johnny to Josh, not Lily and Jessi. The “grooming” case transformed into a defamatory accusation. That’s what I meant!
@@HadenBlakeFor public figures (which they all are at this point), knowingly or with reckless disregard for the truth, but essentially, yes. Given what was publicly available at the time, I agree you'd have a hard time saying it was with malicious intent.
@@dddottir5935I think when the allegations got that serious, Joshua should've unambiguously denied Johnny's allegations. Adam and everyone else can say that they got the impression his apologies hinted that their relationship wasn't what Johnny was saying, but if Joshua had come out saying "Johnny, I'm sorry I couldn't be a mentor, but I did not groom you and we were not close", it would've been a completely different situation. He sat on evidence that would exonerate himself and then wondered why no one believed him or looked any further. I just don't get why he did or didn't do what he did/didn't, especially given how flimsy Johnny's story was in reality.
My problem is that Jessi & Lilly interviewed Johnny TWICE - there was an audio issue the first time. So, they went through the story more than most other podcasts have. There must've been an instance where his story changed, especially since he wasn't as well rehearsed as he was when he started doing more interviews. They probably picked up on it and chose to ignore it because they told themselves that Johnny is a victim and that he was more important than the fact that his story didn't align. Secondly, they (I think it was actually Jessi) said that they were not going to interview Josh, or listen to his side, because he is not a victim. Then, it turned out that Josh *IS* the victim and they go and use his apology against him and basically telling him that he can't be a victim because he gave a mature apology to Johnny. It makes me angry.
I think they put too much dip on their chip. They are a GOSSIP podcast. Situations that are this multifaceted and so nuanced with ACTUAL crimes being committed, you need to admit that certain things are out of scope. I’ve been a fan of Jessi since vine, but this apology should’ve been 10-15 minutes at most. Just admitted you were out of line and apologize. Period
i would be inclined to disagree purely because while johnny lied and was terrible to josh and they should apologise for the coverage of these issues, josh was still in these groupchats and tiny chats with minors with colleen and the distinction should be made that there are still some truths that children did experience and to apologise for everything would discredit everything that's been said regarding minor interactions with colleen and josh (and johnny now can add him to the list)
Instead of simply apologizing for handling this badly and for blatantly ignoring one side of the story in favor of another, they bumbled around the whole time, basically rolling their eyes at Josh and his trauma, deflecting like there's no tomorrow, sending their fans towards critics,( because that's what's happening if you mention a critic by NAME and rant about them!), and saying "Oh if he only produced evidence against Johny, we would've listened!" , while blindly believing Johny without ANY kind of evidence. Girls...do better!
Journalism is a skill set that is learned, most podcasters aren’t skilled in interviewing in order to get a balanced and honest take. Most podcasters are skilled in discussion which is totally fine. They just need to understand which skill set they have and stick with that until they want to get the skill set to interview properly. Now that this info is out, the ethical thing to do is make it right by Josh.
Jessi and Lily said it themselves: they’re not journalists. Josh accepted their apology, from what I remember. But he said he’s waiting for his Swoop episode to drop.
Jessie and Lily were some of the many who gave Johnny a voice, and were fooled by his deceitfulness. They handled the Josh thing poorly after the fact, and that's fair. However, you cannot put the blame on them alone. Everyone who interviewed him (albeit Swoop) was fooled.
The only thing I think they should be fully blamed for is the fact that they laughed at Josh and his experiences. Josh was been open about his abuse from Colleen for a while now. Swoop didn’t laugh at Josh. Not to mention they didn’t even mention Josh in the written apology.
@@Anna-pm3fq I don't think they laughed at Josh's ab•se? I could totally be wrong though. I know they admitted to rolling their eyes at what they thought was a "BS statement," but the statement didn't include anything about his ab•se and experiences with Colleen.
I don’t blame them for lending their platform to someone who they believed to be a victim. I however take issue with how they handled Josh. In their own words they could have easily told Josh they would speak to him if he could provide evidence Johnny was lying. Even in their apology they are super defensive and blaming Josh for him not offering them any evidence. How exactly was he supposed to do that when they wouldn’t even speak to him? I don’t think I would of had such an issue with it if they would have just said they had no desire to speak to him. Even in the beginning when I believed Johnny it irked me how they mocked Josh. The way he reached out to them didn’t warrant that type of reaction.
Josh never admitted to anything close to grooming John. They said his statements were all vague, but he was actually pretty specific in what he was apologizing for (ex. the phone number and the Sara account). He said that John's feelings were valid, not that everything he said about him was true. They're blaming him for their own misunderstanding and not actually reading what he said. They could've easily just asked for more information, too, but chose not to. Willful ignorance is still ignorance 🤷♀️
YES. I don't understand why people try so hard to defend this. It feels like willful ignorance because they are "stans" and it is so frustrating, lol. Most of us here are fans and we have every right to be disappointed.
The big issue I think Jessi especially dealt with here is that hearing out the accused abuser in this kind of situation. Gabby traumatized Jessi by hearing out her abuser. Jessi probably instinctively shyed away from doing what she felt like was the same. I think Johnny played spesiffically on that.
I completely agree with your standpoint in this. And I think that it is important for all of us to try and think more broadly, instead of putting all of the blame on one person when there is more than one person involved.
Them blaming Josh for his apology and basically being like "you should have beem more believable than Johnny" completely victim blaming him and refusing to take accountability id fucking insane
This is my first introduction to the DWKT podcast. I admit I found the fact that the majority of the podcast was seemingly more about why Joshua screwed up and made Johnny believable. I can understand a little bit of an explanation, but it started to feel a bit like they were harping on Josh being somewhat guilty. Especially since they hadn't really apologized. They had acknowledged some of it, but yeah it felt like more fingerpointing to me. To the point i didn’t even make it to the apology portion. It felt very victim blamey. I didn't see their interviews with him. I do think it sounds like they are being unfairly targeted, but this was awful. Maybe as I watch the rest with Adam I will feel better, but if you can't make it through the justification to get the apology, is it an apology? Edit: after finishing this I feel no better. This wasn't an apology it was a chance to put Josh on low key trial where even if Johnny lied they are justified because obviously Josh is guilty of something. I appreciate Adam being able to speak truth to friends. He is more generous than me, but he has the knowledge and relationship I don't. I don't know if I will ever watch them after this.
They we’re extremely unprofessional, the eyes rolling, the victim blaming, trying to deflect by mentioning other people that also believed johny…if both of them could not figure out they were wrong, they need to find another profession quick
I really wanted to like them because Adam spoke so compassionately on the swoop doc about how awful they’d feel finding out Johnny used them to platform his crusade. But it doesn’t seem like they feel that way at all.
DWKT's fans are still hating on Adam to this day for this extremely fair criticism over their "apology". It's pathetic how they've deflected blame so hard and have taken the victim mentality over their own actions. Also super gross that their fans are now taking Ethan's side in the recent H3 drama. Like they're so mad that Adam was mildly critical of the "girlies" that they think that Ethan was justified in making up that Adam creeped his mom and sending a mob after him? I can't stand these influencers being infantilized when they cause harm. DWKT has no standards for the information they put out and they're not victims of the problems they cause.
My only problem with their video was that they weren't more angry dissapointed or annoyed with Johnny. They tried to defend why they treated Joshua how they did instead on going hard on someone who's literally made eveyone look bad and also made victims uncomfortable. I also do like Jesse and Lily they cool however the way they sometimes speak about things aren't my favorite so I've slowly stopped watching their podcast. But yeah that was my only issue with it.
They did voice their disappointment with him multiple times Idk what else yall wanted them to say?? The reason they talked so much about Josh is because him and a lot of other ppl started accusing them of things so they rightfully tried to defend themselves by providing context
Josh’s responses to Johnny were plain and simply a way to try to get Johnny to leave him alone because he was being SO aggressive. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to see. I’m also confused because Jessi and Lily say they watched Swoop’s video that shows Johnny deleted messages. But they still say they don’t see any evidence from Josh to support him and Josh should reach out to them if he has any. I’m baffled
I don’t understand eithr because tbh when he first came out w the statements I feel like everyone was so mad because they weren’t satisfactorily covering what they thought happened?? Like idk I’ve always just been confused about the whole josh/john stuff but these two ppl are just being like extremely hypocritical. never watched them before and now i won’t cuz this apology was weird
It’s so sad because everyone trusted Johnny and believed him because nobody wanted to not believe it. Because everything else was true nobody could of imagined that anyone would lie and try to make a come up on the situation. It’s sad because it takes away from the real victims like you Adam,Becky and Oliver. It disgusts me that Johnny talked over Becky and Oliver on h3. Saying there needs to be a “leader”. Hell no it’s about each of them telling their story equally. Nobody’s trauma is more important.
As a person who laughs at my trauma and has a disorder that fricks with my memory, I totally believed Johnny, though I had a soft spot for Josh since he was the only guy from that terrible crew apologizing and not giving his victims a giant 🖕 What Johnny did deligitimized Josh, Adam’s, Jesse, Swoop and people in my position’s pain.
I just really hope this doesn’t run Jessi off the internet again. Really thinking of her and her mental health rn because their intentions were not bad. Jessi & Lily are so genuine. Saying they shouldn’t have done it is such a hindsight thing. I bet they feel like that now, too. They believed someone who said that they were a victim.
It’s not hindsight, I think Adam explains it well. If you have only done a few interviews it is not a good idea to interview someone who you think is a child grooming victim. It’s not a good idea beforehand, and it showed.
@@sophiaa7995this! I genuinely don't believe they care about Josh, though. I think they care about being right and not sucking it up and admitting they were wrong. I had NO opinion prior on them to this situation. Now I have a very negative opinion and I will recommend people to not support their channel, as they do not actually support victims. They both need to step away and reevaluate themselves and behavior. I do wish them the best, and I do not think they should be harassed. Just held accountable. Harassment is not holding accountable, and holding accountable is not harassment
I can’t imagine how Josh feels. The abuse of Colleen, the abuse from the public, having your name dragged through the mud and people literally lying about you on podcasts and videos…he’s handling it much better than I would. I don’t know if I would make it out alive. Honestly.
Thanks Adam. I actually couldn’t sit through the video because it was so victim blamey, filled with excuses, and dismissive to me from the start. I couldn’t even get to their apology. They definitely did themselves a disservice with all the extra stuff. Without your video here I don’t think I would’ve even known that because I couldn’t sit through it was so triggering. And I tried like three times. I made it to 14 minutes and then I just couldn’t.
I think their defensiveness is directly proportionate to how much backlash theyre getting. The more people giving them a hard time the more they felt they had to defend themselves
I can understand this take, but it definitely does not excuse the way they handled it. I feel like Jessi being someone who is used to getting a lot of backlash should know that you don’t have to defend every little action to apologize and take accountability.
@@Reffienessbut they didn’t do anything wrong 💀 johnny had so many creators manipulated, somehow they’re the only ones who got backlash for believing him. even swoop herself initially interviewed johnny as a victim.
@@maeve292Lily posting the community post statement without putting Josh’s name is when they started to get the most backlash. Not apologizing to the person affected the most by this was wrong. Lily should have added his name or just said “Jessi and I will address this in a video.”
@@imjustaturtle641think about what you're complaining about in the grand scheme of things. Child groomer Colleen abusive wife toxic inappropriate people in her team lying about being victims and you're complaining that a podcast didn't mention Joshua's name in their community post. This is just garbage polluting the main issue
I think they had good intentions, but i think they were a bit too defensive in their apology and it came across as trying to blame josh for their own mistakes instead of just apologizing and being like "we thought we were doing the best we could with the information we had, but we realize that we didn't really do the best we could"
they did apologized, for their attitud and beliving johnny, they just explained why they believed him and people are taking that as excuses, they are just explaining their train of thoughts at that moment.
@@maluvidazocar2895they didn’t need to drag it on for 50 mins. The last part was all they needed. The rest was them just blaming Josh for not standing up for himself (like they would have believed him anyways) and making excuses for themselves
I see it as being similar to the Colleen and Trisha situation. People can acknowledge that Trisha has done bad things in their past but is still a victim and was wronged. Joshua is a victim but he also admitted to inappropriate behavior that shouldn't be washed away because Johnny lied. It'll be the same if Colleen tried to used Johnny as an example to discredit Adam, Becky, Oliver, etc. I think also with the amount of backlash they were getting questioning their integrity; they had to explain why they believed it at the time. I think it's important to allow people to grow and change their opinions when new information is presented. That wasn't allowed for Jessi and Lily. They were expected to know everything watch the 4hr video and respond in the same day. The unrealistic expectations placed on them wasn't fair and I understand why they'd come off as defensive.
A complicated situation. They can be lovely individuals, but if they can't make an apt interview and handle the backlash without getting defensive and making themselves look worse... they should stay out of it.
It kind of sucks that Jessi and Lily are using Josh's apologies to Johnny as an excuse for their lack of care around the situation, because I feel like his apology was one of the most sincere and well-done I've seen online. They should have taken some notes. I guess Josh could have been more clear about what he specifically did and what he did not do (although I thought it was pretty clear that he was NOT admitting to grooming) - but it seemed like he was legitimately trying to take accountability and validate/protect Johnny's feelings, rather than in any way trying to excuse or minimize his actions. That kind of sincere and careful apology should be praised, not used as ammunition against Josh.
"Don't admit something and apologise if it isn't something you did, stand your ground" This is so victim-blamey of them tbh. Something trauma survivors often do as a way of protecting themselves is fawn. Fawning is when a victim will placate and appease perpetrators of abuse to minimise the amount of abuse and volatility towards them. Johnny was being very aggressive towards Joshua in his tweets and allegations that, while I believe Joshua was trying to also be empathetic towards Johnny's feelings, I believe he was also hoping to reduce the hostility thrown his way as a trauma response.
This!! And the fact that most of the time too abusers make victims actually feel responsible until they can unpack it later and realize they did nothing wrong.
Its not only trauma. Sometimes you can do/say something that you think is completely fine, but for some people it can be hurtful. So what now, you dont apologize for that?
I bet you have flipped and flopped on the Josh situation, it’s so rare for someone to pretend to be a victim. If they initially didn’t believe Johnny, you’d still be complaining about their stances….yall are so fucking tired lmao
@@Send_In_The_Clowns is Colleen getting away with it? We all hate her, that’s literally how this whole situation even started. This comes across as whataboutism.
I’m a few years older than Adam & I really am in awe of how he conducts himself & the incredibly insightful points he makes. He is young & still learning, but I commend him for his strength & conduct when dealing with such a vulnerable and public situation. He should be very proud of himself 🙏🏼
The difference is Josh knows what he's done and you don't. The context for people believing Johnny is rooted in Josh's real admitted interaction with underaged fans
@@largesquids it's ridiculous how Adam expressing reservations has made you guys go beserk hating on the girls and painting as a saint a man who by his own admission and according to video evidence had inappropriate interactions with minors
When you know you did something wrong, you don't try to constantly defend yourself before saying sorry, it erases the credibility in your apology. We all know the context, we all were lied to by Johnny, saying it wasn't misinformation because they believed it was true is not only disingenous but dangerous too. I hope they learn from this and chose better the subjects of their new episodes.
Absolutely WILD they're claiming some of Johnny's claims were credible (like hours of video chatting); completely erases any legitimate "apology" to Josh that they're failing at miserably; no accountability AT ALL, and STILL spreading mis/disinformation, all while NOT apologizing...
@@Starburst514 That could have been done in a way that doesn't include rolling their eyes in annoyance, saying they weren't spreading misinformation because they believed Johnny at the moment, having credibility standards with Josh that didn't apply to Johnny, and spending most of their video showing the faults of Josh. Lets remember that this apology wasn't only to their audience but to Josh as well, I don't think they are actually sorry with him when they kept speaking about how Josh should have done this and shouldn't have done that.
I think it was important for them to explain where they were coming from instead of the narrative of they didn't care and didn't give him a chance while I do agree they should have given him a chance to tell his side. Also I do agree that Josh's apologies were confusing same thing Ethan brought up that if Josh had those texts why didn't he come out with them which is very confusing. While at the time he didn't want to take more heat they are serious allegations and I definitely wouldn't take that lightly or let someone run with that if it wasnt true.
This is a little bit unfair since even Swoop believed Johnny at the beginning. It wasn’t until he kept changing his story and constantly contradicting himself in her interviews that she grew suspicious. Also, there was the benefit of Johnny going on multiple interviews and constantly tweeting lies for a while, Jessi and Lily didn’t had any of that information. Moreover, even you didn’t wanted to publicly push back on Johnny’s story after clocking his contradictions when he was running his mouth. BTW, I’m sorry you felt afraid to speak up against that lying snake and I’m very glad Swoop worked with you to handle him.
I think by the time he made it to SWOOP he had so many holes in his story that it was more possible for her to find him sketchy. Her incredible ability to spot this thing was also a good catch. Something that Lilly and Jessi don’t have. Especially an entire team behind to spot the flaws. I’m glad he’s caught and Josh can have some peace, but also think is atrocious what they’re doing to Lilly and Jessi
Swoop said from the beginning that she had reached out to Josh. Because of that, the truth would have come out regardless of what he said. That’s why journalistic integrity is important.
I don't think they had bad intentions, but their response was very disappointing. It felt like they were being forced to say sorry, but didn't truly mean it because there was always an implied BUT after every apology. Personally, I wasn't upset with them until I watched their response video.
I completely agree with you!! There were so many things about it that made me upset. I watched the whole thing waiting for a clear disavow and apology and they never gave it.
@@abiStallia very real man has been dragged publicly by those two over crimes he did not commit. His trauma was diminished and made light of on their platform, so yes, I think Josh deserves people online sticking up for him the way this commenter has
I was waiting for your review of this I love lily & jessi so much, but this subject is serious and has so many layers. Unfortunately I think everyone has their own personal bias that will affect how they create an opinion. I feel for everyone that is involved and has been hurt. Just unfortunate things like this even happen and the list of victims will probably never be fully known, and how it is all on the internet which is something I could not fathom at all. Just hope there will be some peace soon for you all❤
their "if you truly werent in the wrong, why did you not stand your ground" is beyond victim blaming, its a disgusting claim. its basically "well if that person hurt you why didnt you speak out before" that Johnny was already spewing against Josh
They could have just apologized for platforming Johnny without investigating his claims or asking him to provide any evidence. Instead they assumed that Josh's apology was an admission of guilt and dismissed him when he requested the same platform they provided Johny to counter. Though I don't blame them for wanting to protect and believe an alleged victim, they enabled him and had little regard for how serious the topic of grooming is because they were underprepared in comparison to Swoop. The nature of the swoops series is to actually investigate and find the truth via actual evidence which is why Johnny's story fell flat. Thankfully her video won't allow for his lies to escalate further.
But josh’s apology really DID sound like an admission of guilty to lots of people. I completely get why they thought that at least - and comparing them to swoop feels like a lot. They weren’t in the right here but I don’t think anyone expects swoop level investigation from anyone. Idk. I just feel like they’re getting a lot of backlash when they’re obviously not malicious. They deserved to be called out but they’re not stupid either. Lots of us would have done the same.
@@JungianHeights he literally did, he acknowledged he was weird to the minor he made the “horny” joke towards and he is on record with unsupervised children at his hotel room. It’s literally on the video regardless or,whether adam acknowledges it or not.
josh repeatedly apologized for things he DIDNT do (which makes no sense) and he never denied any of johnny’s allegations until after their podcast episode was posted.
@@maeve292I feel like the lack of denying was more so him being afraid of possible backlash. Remember, Colleen’s fans bullied him off the internet years ago so there’s a possibility he was afraid if he came out on his own and denied denied denied he’d get in huge trouble for attacking an alleged victim.
@@memememememe1287that might be very well be the case, but jessi and lily can’t be blamed for his approach then. Their original interpretation of his statements are reasonable, although they could have had a better attitude about it, which they acknowledged.
No, their original statements were not appropriate given the seriousness of the allegations. I don't know what rational person sees Josh's statements and is like welp, case closed. Nothing to wonder about at all. They were rude and dismissive based on their own bias and I really wish they would have owned up to that instead of consistently blaming him in this instance. They are simply not good at receiving criticism and yes, criticism can come from fans, not just evil internet trolls.
props bud for putting your bias aside to cover this. bc anyone could easily just "pick a side" or just ignore this one, it shows you have integrity. i do agree that the girls should have handled this differently and im glad theyre making changes to improve. also love their content and yours. this years been wild man
The responsibility needs to be put on Johnny for manipulating them. That said, they should have handled the situation where Josh asked to share his side much better.
Also them for taking on this kind of subject and trying to double down on their misinformation of Josh and continuing to blame him while trying to save their behind.
For me the big problem is that their justification that Josh must have done it because Josh apologized because he made Johnny feel bad meant that he must have done it. He was in a lose-lose situation: apologizing and the world thinking that he did it, or try to defend himself and being told he was re-victimizing Jonny and that he was lying.
Honestly more people need to have this take. Journalists have training in this, (not saying they always are perfect at it, but still) not everyone needs to cover every topic and be an interviewer or a journalist on serious topics especially if they’re ongoing.
Exactly! This is NOT a topic you cover just for views and subscribers. This is REAL LIFE TRAUMA! These people struggle, daily. And not handling the interview the right way, could end up exploiting or victimizing these people again. It’s such a shame.
This wasn’t an apology, and I don’t know them from whoever, but this was a video to kind of push the blame off on anything they could. “We are sorry, but…” which is not an apology.
I am so, so, so glad you posted this. I immediately thought that their video was not great. I mean, it just made me feel very… icky the whole time. I was crushed by this response and the fact that they spent like 40 minutes completely blaming everything on Josh. And that’s what it was-They were blaming Josh for their lack of due diligence. they saw his posts and made gross assumptions when they had a fraction of the full story. I completely 100% agree that the last 12 minutes of the episode should’ve been the full video. And I also think that it’s a bit crummy that it was the length of a full podcast. It just didn’t say accountability to me.
because they didn’t do anything malicious and have been unfairly targeted. jessi clearly cares so deeply for victims and to suggest otherwise is actual insanity. josh never once refuted johnny’s claims until after the episode was posted. all he did was say johnny was valid and apologize repeatedly. there’s a reason why everyone, not just lily and jessi, everyone believed johnny initially.
@@kaligibbs3633 except that I literally said I’ve been feeling this way since they posted it. I’m a bigger fan of the DWKT podcast than I am of Adam but okay.
The majority of people were not happy with their conduct of mocking him. Believing Johnny was never the issue. I just hope they do better going forward
With the hindsight of Swoop’s video I can understand that, but at the time I also understood why they were frustrated because it seemed-based on the information available at the time and based on what all Josh had provided-that he was threatening legal action against them over Johnny misrepresenting that one tweet during their interview. I completely understand how frustrated he must have been, but I think he could have responded a bit better, and had some patience for them to film and post a response. By the time they were able to sit down and record he had been tweeting at them a lot and again, it appeared as thought he was upset about the small detail of that one tweet being misrepresented. I’m not saying they handled their frustration well either, I’m just saying that I don’t think either side was completely in the right, but we should remember that Johnny was the one who was 100% in the wrong.
@JNDReacts if they had reached out to Josh for a comment then it would have been made abundantly clear that Johnny was lying. The problem is that they presumed guilt over innocence. Every journalist knows to reach out to the perpetrator to give them an opportunity for comment before making any claims about them. It's just common sense.
@@bobococo89 I'm 100% with you! They were incredibly unprofessional. And their reaction created an environment where I personally saw their fans go after Josh. So AGAIN he was targeted by fans for something he didn't do.
Indeed! If they only said “hey, we had a bias against Joshua and we’re sorry” they don’t even need a 50 minute video! They keep complaining about Swoop’s video being 4 hours long but their 50 minute non-apology is okay. We all are human and we all have biases we don’t even realize.
It’s kinda weird to me that they’re still giving weight to anything Johnny says. Even if it is true, Johnny ruined his own credibility and doesn’t deserve any trust imo. I feel like still trusting johnny for some things is an effort to make them look less responsible for not doing their due diligence in looking into his accusations.
its so crazy for them to say "not every victim has evidence" in the same breath as they say "josh never showed us evidence, josh reach out for us if we missed evidence cause we didnt find any"
I think that may be because they viewed him as a perpetrator. Most people in the court of public opinion when presented with someone who is accused of wrongdoing will think guilty until proven innocent. Extrapolating that would mean you may want an accused perpetrator of wrongdoing to present evidence to prove their innocence sine the presumption is guilt. Not saying that it's right, it's just human nature I think.
But it's also super crazy for people to be slamming them for giving Johnny a platform without vetting his statements while being mad they didn't give Joshua a platform because they couldn't vet a lot of his statements. Either way yall are gonna think they did the wrong thing, they can't win.
They thought he was an abuser and thats the whole point of the "believe the victim first" thing. Like I'm not understanding what's the confusion around this.
@@pinguufuuuuthank you! They weren’t saying Josh needed to prove he was a victim, they were saying they needed some sort of evidence that he wasn’t a perpetrator. How irresponsible would it be to platform an accused perpetrator and then later find out that that person really is guilty, and now you’ve let them onto your show to potentially invalidate their victim? Of course the obvious answer in hindsight is to not have either party on if you don’t have the resources to properly vet everything, but it sounds like they’ve really learned that lesson.
their response did come from a place of defensiveness and still perhaps a bit rushed from the looks of it. I feel for them both and at the end of the day they were also manipulated and led to believe these damaging accusations - like who in their right mind would spread all these lies about people?? but that's besides the point. their intentions were pure but execution was misguided now that we have the whole picture and I'm sure we've all learnt a lot from this experience. thanks Adam for always being so candid, no doubt this whole ordeal would've been tormenting from your perspective but you were still so objective and kind despite everything.
Honestly Josh’s anger was 100% justified. I’ve never watched Jessie or Lily’s podcast but man did some of their takes scream problematic and lack of accountability for not reaching out to Josh or handling that properly. Sorry but some of the things they said and their defensiveness just showed that they’re not really sincere in their “apology” over this, more like they now needed to apologize to Josh to not receive more backlash. AND the fact that Jessie criticized Josh for not forcing himself to speak up or standing up for himself in his past with Colleen and saying it was a “disservice to himself.” Weird. Just my opinion.
I'm a childhood abuse victim and I can't understand this whole "I'm finding it hard to side with anyone but the accuser" mentality. I'm even more shocked that someone who was abused is coming out and telling people that sometimes they just have to come out with their story. It's really dangerous to do this. As a victim of abuse, I could tell right away that Johnny was throwing around the word 'grooming' without actually knowing what it meant. Again as a victim of abuse I can absolutely understand and sympathise with josh and his statements. In fact, to me, it seems he is just trying to appease the situation and make Johnny feel validated. Josh is also probably battling with an intense flight response at the moment. He's probably getting triggered around the clock by things happening at the moment. I mean Jessi is trying to defend the victims, likely because she knows how it feels to not be believed or how stressful it is to come out about something, hoping that people will believe you just for her to say "I don't want to hear your side" to Josh when he was doing just that, as a victim. I don't think an abuse victim it too biased to discuss a subject like this, I just think they need to be careful in how they define a victim.
The point that a lot of people are missing is that no one is blaming them for platforming Johnny. What people are largely taking issue with is how they handled things AFTER Swoop's doc came out and to a certain extent, their unprofessional attitude in the video before this. The eye-rolling and the dismissiveness in addressing Josh reaching out to them was uncalled for. I get why Jessi's instinct is to not platform an alleged abuser, but there were better ways of getting that point across instead of that superciliousness (especially from Lily) which rubbed me the wrong way. But, I take serious issue with them saying that an apology is an admission of guilt. Nowhere in his FOUR (count them, four! - while the real victims get ZERO from Colleen. But that's a whole other conversation.=) apologies, does he ever admit to grooming or apologise for grooming Johnny. And to those saying "He needs to be more specific in future." - put yourself in his shoes there. He's being relentlessly hounded by Johnny - it's hard to even think straight when someone is just *coming* at you. All in all their whole video was so victim-blamey, I had to stop watching.
Couldn’t agree with this more. That’s exactly how I felt. I actually stopped watching it halfway through. I understand not platforming an alleged abuser as well, but they could have handled it so much better. They kind of treated Josh like dirt in my opinion.
I stopped watching too! I didn’t blame them for the original episode, but the addressing everything episode was the problem. They did roll their eyes at josh. They did buy into the concert story that made no sense... just say sorry and leave it at that
“We believed Johnny because Josh apologized” is such a ridiculous excuse for their poor critical thinking. Do they not know how many narc victims apologize to their abusers and try to validate their feelings? Johnny is Josh’s abuser. And also, JOHNNY was the one who had to prove Josh was guilty. I’m sorry. This video felt more of a “we are sorry for this BUT JOSH ALSO DID-” so I don’t have many positive opinions about it.
This was the most baffling thing to me, really. Like not once do they apply any critical thinking while serving up this excuse. They should have just straight up said we didn't want to risk platforming an alleged abuser. That's it. This ridiculous excuse just made it worse, when it needn't have been.
When it comes to Josh, I believe he was simply exhausted, possibly defeated. so he just apologized for everything, even though he did not do everything that was accused of. And later on, he realizes that wasn't the greatest thing to do. And I understand why he's upset; he wasn't given the opportunity to share his mind. And to jessi and lily sometimes you have to set your personal biases aside and hear all of the people involved.
I feel like when he issued the statement offering grace to jessi and Lily after their video he was exhausted too. I really feel for this guy he’s been told to stfu for years
I understand and very sympathetic to Jessi and Lily, but it just feels like they are trying to put the blame of the situation onto Joshua just because he was trying to take accountability for stuff he had done and placate Johnny's anger. It really feels like they are using all of that as an excuse for why they shouldn't take accountability.
Totally agree, its not much bigger than "We should never had had Johnny on the show". They just shouldn't platform anyone making allegations unless they are willing to hear the other side under equal conditions Something they are not willing to do. Which is fine!!! If they are just a podcast thats ok but they need to stay away from situations that ethically require a higher journalistic standard and I think they dropped the ball here in how they claim they are going to handle things like this going forward. I dont want to pile on anymore backlash but there are some rough takes in this video and I hope they can drop the defenses and listen to constructive criticism
You said it better than I could. It came across as a lot of excuses, they would’ve been better off saying “we lack the time/resources/skills to give this the in depth attention it deserves, so in the future we will not be covering topics with this level of seriousness and ramifications to them.”
Adam platformed Johnny and didn’t have Josh on. H3 platformed Johnny and didn’t have Josh on. No one, including Adam, spoke up until Swoop’s documentary. You should have that same criticism for everyone then.
@@MissGrimmAdam avoided platforming Johnny about Joshua because he didn't trust him. He included him as a Colleen victim, but he drew that line despite Johnny asking him to share.
I think the issue is that Adam knew the truth long before anyone else did, so that allowed him to pay closer attention to the actual verbiage Josh was using. However, I think Lily, Jessie, myself, and others saw Josh’s apology as an apology for Johnny’s accusations, not Johnny’s feelings on the matter (because truthfully you can do that privately and it would likely mean more, especially since Josh no longer is a public figure). Knowing the truth now, I completely agree that his statements seem to validate feelings more than show an admission of guilt. I think Josh coming out and publicly making those statements did him way more harm than good
I saw someone comment here that that's why lawyers always advise against their clients apologizing - because an apology can be taken as an admission of guilt. I could totally see how Jessie and Lily saw Josh's multiple statements that way.
I disagree. Johnnys h3 interview was weird, he skirted around giving concrete examples (unlike the other victims) and Josh’s apology to me read that he feels bad that he treated Johnny like an adult and when he felt smothered he didn’t communicate clearly. I think Josh’s good intentions were actually more wholesome than this podcast… and he was quick to apologize for his naivety. I don’t see accountability here… I see only excuses.
@@LeeannG I’m not commenting on the quality of the apology to Josh. I don’t doubt Josh’s intentions were good (lol, obviously), I just don’t think they did him any favors. Very much like Jessie and Lily, I misunderstood his tweets for admitting guilt before evidence of the contrary were presented by Swoop. You can take accountability for what you genuinely did while negating or emphasizing the pieces that are false, especially when the allegations are as life destroying as the ones Johnny was throwing out. I’m pretty sure even Ethan from H3 questioned how Josh handled his responses and Olivia had to give the same explanation Adam did. I understand this viewpoint of Jessie and Lily but I also understand what led them to their conclusion.
h3 interview was after lily and jessi's interview. when they put out their interview johnny's story had not had a million changes from podcast to podcast.
@@LeeannGLily and Jessi’s interview was the first one. Johnny contradictions where made clear as he went on with his videos, the H3 podcast, the Variety article, all of his tweets and even Swoop’s first interview of him. In neither of the interviews above Josh shared his side except for the statement he gave to DWKT and even Swoop said she wasn’t going to give Josh a platform until she was contacted by various victims of Johnny and found new information on reddit. Everyone believed Johnny even Swoop, nobody questioned him, except Swoop.
The key difference between the heat H3 and DWKT is getting is that H3 did not double down when the truth came out, they just processed it on the show and Ethan went out of his way to ensure that they corrected the record as much as possible because he knew how this could affect Josh. On the other hand, DWKT have acted like they've been backed into a corner and that they were justified in their previous actions, with an apology that comes with a huge caveat. I truly think that if they just released a 5min version of the apology where they said they felt they had reason to behave as they did at the time, but they are now sorry, all this would've been done and dusted. The immense backlash is because of how adamantly they are determined to turn the blame on Josh for how they acted, while also revealing how little critical thinking they've actually applied i.e. Josh did not confess to any grooming, only acknowledged the pain caused, and even in retrospect, it makes sense that he took the accountability that he did because he could not have anticipated how much that was only going to fuel Johnny's attack. At the end of the day, the 1hr video was just not necessary, people understood their situation, even if they're acting like people were coming at them so intensely. In reality, the backlash is now 90% in response to their defensiveness.
A lot of their back pedal feels like they're trying to acknowledge Johnny's dishonesty while also trying really hard to excuse their bias against Josh.
It's so disappointing because I thought Jessi and Lily were better than this. This is in reference to how they're treating Josh and how they're trying to justify their bad behavior.
I just dont understand how Jessie said that intent matters more than actions then doesnt unserstand why Josh validated Johnnys feelings online. Josh is not in a public sphere anymore, he didnt want to respond. But he was accusing him of crimes.... so he had to. There was no need to go over everh point that was true and devalue josh and upkift johnny all over again. Such a strange take to make excuses the whole time. I LOVE these girls too, never miss an episode, but they wee just so on the defense. They didnt need to be. Everyone was fooled by jphnny. All they needed to do was appoligise and correct the record. They didnt need to defend themselves at all. Ofcorse we all want to beleive victims. Thats just normal!
@@Kloves818Josh did say what he was apologising for he never once apologised for grooming him or being a fkn gateway groomer to a grown man who chose to work for Colleen
I think by far the worst part was how they handled the aftermath and the initial response from josh. It was overly dismissive and it made it seem like they really shouldn’t have a platform at all to allow anyone on it if they are going to handle it this poorly when they got push back from someone they were speaking on. People tweeting to me isn’t the same same as hosting a podcast episode and then taking zero responsibility for the narrative especially when when josh began to reach out to them.
My biggest takeaway is that 9/10 times a sincere apology is not the apology we want to hear. Being sincere requires honesty and honesty isn’t what people want in an apology, they want to be completely validated and most of the time honesty won’t give you that kind of feeling. Arguing about whether they should have interviewed Josh or not is a moot point, we all know things now and maybe going forward we can support a victim without vilifying the other person bc sadly this stuff happens, albeit not very often. Johnny invited himself onto their show and I can understand they weren’t fully prepared and I relate to that, I make mistakes even when my heart is in the right place.
Agreed 100%, I think their apology was totally genuine and honest and explained every step they took. People are still furious about it which leads me to believe they were never going to be happy with whatever DWKT said.
Exactly! And I personally respect them a whole lot more for not making a blanket apology themselves and for pushing back on the false narratives being perpetuated about them from this. They owned where they went wrong, but they're not lying down to just be flayed by haters on the internet. That is harder to do, but so necessary.
exactly. people are 100% misconstruing their explaining themselves, with them making excuses. no where in the video did they ever make excuses for themself, but they were 100% explaining their thought process behind it and WHY they did what they did. and theres nothing wrong with that
100%. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can say all day long they should have done this or that- but it is the past. All they could have done is either throughly explain themselves and give their reasoning for why they did what they did, what they learned from it, and what their intentions were or just say sorry and people would have had just as much issue with that. I do not believe it was their responsibility to track down every allegation or speak to every person involved. I believe the nature of their podcast is to explain things on a certain topic with the understanding that they have. It is not their responsibility to give everyone the total and complete understanding, people need to take their own responsibility In saying that they came to a conclusion without researching something for themselves. With a topic like this or really anything it is each person’s individual responsibility to do their own digging and come to their own conclusions of what is the truth.
just a small note from when jessi was talking about mustering your strength to speak your truth- Josh did. He tried many times and was attacked off the internet. So there wasnt this space really for him to do that until now. And having gone through that, his apologies might have come from a place of fear from that happening so he didnt want to rock the boat too much. "What kind of hate will i get if i do defend myself publicly?" kind of thing. If i apologise maybe i can slowly start to speak out if i apologise to someone i have hurt. I cant speak too much because johnny just read the wrong way for me from the start. His words spoke too much like the girls i knew who would read other girls DM's from warped tour and take their stories and run. He would speak not like a victim but someone who had something behind the smile kind of feeling. It struck me the wrong way. So i was willing to listen to joshuas side pretty easily. But i can see how difficult the situation is to wade through.
To me Josh’s apology sounded a lot like ones I hear coming out of people who’ve been through AA. It prioritized Acknowledging hurt someone may have felt over dissecting the particulars of the event.
to me Joshua's apologies read as "sorry I didn't handle a parasocial relationship as well as I could" not "sorry I gr**med you", I don't like how they say that Josh "admited" to it when that's really not the case like Swoops video clarifies that. edit after finishing the video: a) they deflect and even blame Josh a bit too much. b) I do believe they had good intentions. c) still don't think they deserve the level of backlash they're getting, but they clearly need to learn and grow before they tackle a topic this serious again.
I love that you can give credit where it’s due but also call people out when it’s necessary. It shows fair you are. Yes you have biases, we all do, but you are fair with everyone. ❤
Really fucked up that Johnny was the one lying but people are basically blaming Jessi and Lily for not being supersleuths. Blame the dupers not the duped
@@xKomadorithe difference is h3 dedicated a whole episode to correct the record. They didn't put out a statement to apologize to their audience and just happen to leave Josh out of it. The person who did the segment (Olivia) is a woman so the misogyny assumption isn't accurate.
@@xKomadorialso Josh also reached out to H3 like the girls, and H3 was open to having him on even before swoops part 3 - he was already in contact with Olivia I believe. I think that’s the part that people are upset about. Believe victims, but then there is room for verification.
Lilly's eye rolling was seriously unprofessional. Lilly says "we didn't fact check every single claim"... they didn't fact check a single claim. Spread a lot disinformation.
I was so deeply disappointed in this video. It was just deflection after deflection and they took a long time to “apologize” to Josh at all. I had to stop watching this video when it came out because it was so frustrating. I wanted to wait to see Adam recap it and Adam seems to have the same reaction I did. I wanted them to address this so much better. It’s definitely disheartening and I think they owe Josh a better apology.
I think Lily/Jessie and Josh have always had a bad back and forth, souring him to them. Mix that with Josh being defensive because of the seriousness and consequences of the situation - you are gonna get high tension and not so grounded responses. I don’t think Lily and Jessie had bad intentions. I think they got manipulated by Johnny. I do think they need to give some grace to Josh though, and he to them (which luckily he seems to have in his response to their video). But yeah some of their explanations in their apology video rubbed me the wrong way. But it’s a tricky situation and I do love them. It’s just some of it felt victim blamy and defensive.
That with the fact that it is 100% weird to use the word “horny” around a child or inviting children to your hotel room… As much as i see Adam and Josh’s point, he did literally admit guilty to too many things. It did not read like that to Adam because Adam had his suspicions which actually makes me wonder why he is even acting like this now when he is guilty of not platforming him and pressing Johnny either prior to swoop’s video either.
I love Jesse but the way they attack and blame a person based off of someone's story and not giving the other person a chance or even hearing them out is what really irks me. They did that on the Jonah Hill topic what really rubbed me the wrong way. Their attitudes seem too arrogant sometimes.
I think this is the most nuanced, balanced criticism of DWKT that I have seen, and that's amazing considering it's coming from someone directly harmed by Johnny. All the props for you, Adam.
(I'm still watching. Just my thoughts going in.) They don't deserve the hate they're getting. They fucked up by shutting Joshua out off the bat when Johnny made accusations. They know it. People need to step back and let them answer for it. They weren't the only ones who got duped by Johnny.
No they didn’t , but they also didn’t handle it well. I think if they’d only apologized without getting so defensive, people would have been more lenient
@@FabiolaRVela Now that I've watched the whole thing, I agree. They did a fair bit of deflecting. I feel like you can give reasons for your actions without trying to explain them away. A simple "here's what we did and why we did it, here's why we now know it was wrong, we're sorry, here's how were going to handle it going forward" would have been fine. But all the extra time they spent on their video just gave them more room for unproductive dialogue, imo.
I’m going be honest, I am a fan of Jessie but I don’t like how they responded to this…. How can you say that it was Joshua’s responsibility to put out a statement to prove his innocence when you rolled your eyes at the statement, he attempted to give you. You demanded that he have evidence to prove his case that things didn’t happen, but that same logic would never be applied to somebody who is a victim. Also, I think it’s ridiculous of them to not acknowledge the fact that if Josh had said that Johnny was lying, instead of acknowledging his feelings and apologizing that people would have came for him, even harder, and told him that he was trying to silence and disrespect a victim. Honestly, this whole statement feels kind of off to me and I wish they would just say that they’re not going to do interviews anymore especially on topics like this where you can’t be mature enough to actually listen to all sides. Because at the end of the day, everybody has a right to face the person who is accusing them of a action, and or crime. Honestly, it just feels like they wanted to cover their tracks.
An apology is not an apology when you blame the person you're apologising to for what you're apologising for. This was a really bad response. Johnny lying is not their fault but this response is. They took time to respond and this is what they came up with? Josh is a better person than me for sure.
they did apologized, for their attitud and beliving johnny, they just explained why they believed him and people are taking that as excuses, they are just explaining their train of thoughts at that moment.
@@maluvidazocar2895 which in turn undoes the whole apology. Like I said, it’s not an apology when you blame the person you’re apologising to for what you’re apologising for. It comes across gaslighty, manipulative, and victim blamey.
@@sapphyrewairepo3462explaining your thought process behind bad actions does not negate the apology. Explaining why they did something bad helps people understand why they fucked up in the first place and helps them address the wrong choices they made, thus helps them not make bad choices in the future.
I feel like they could've addressed Josh SOMEHOW in their placeholder statement, and then just elaborated on it in the video. I think it's reasonable for him to be mad when it seemed like he'd been completely ignored in their statement after being like... slandered in their interview with Johnny
I think people are looking back at this with new information - and that’s unfair to Jessi & Lily. If they had Josh on they would have been bashed for “giving a platform to a groomer”, and “not believing victims”. There was no evidence but there was overwhelming attention and support for Johnny.
It's kinda unfortunate that their video is actually a huge disservice to them. Honestly with just the facts, it's easy to be like "oh yea i mean that's a fucked up situation, i can understand, they got manipulated", but then you watch them shit talking josh for an hour to seemingly try to prove they did nothing wrong and somehow still try to make allegations about josh using info without any context. The way they, especially Lily, look annoyed and vexed and NOT AT ALL sorry about how they treated joshua just negates everything that was said before omg. Even when they make fair points, it just gets overshadowed by how weirdly vindictive they're acting right now honestly. They don't deserve all that hate but oh dear that video is NOT helping them. Throwing their fans at a smaller creator because they were apparently "very critical" (made very mild tweets covering their feelings of the situation) is also so weird..... putting the full @ and tweets there with the "but don't attack them" is just so....yea anyway not gonna go listen to that podcast anytime soon lmao
I agree. Their initial mistake was unintentional and somewhat understandable given everybody’s history and current information. It’s that human instinct to want to explain why you made the mistake that really got them. You can’t give into this urge. Not in a situation like this.
Man, Adam is so emotionally intelligent. In many videos I’ve watched of his, his opinions and thoughts are fair and concise. He really thinks for himself and that’s very admirable. I’m 25 and I don’t have this emotional intelligence. One day I want to be more on this level.
Hi Adam! Just so you know I support you and believe you have every right to keep talking about this as long as you want and need. You didn't deserve any of this sh1t. Lots of hugs ❤
I really hate how they kept using “it’s a FOUR hour video!!!” as an excuse. Maybe it’s because I’m working a 9-5 job in the office so I can listen to it twice in the background at work and then third time in the time I have after work 🤷♀️
1:08:33 Novisty speaking the truth. Even though it's a podcast (a place where opinions thrive), doesn't mean we have to look at certain situations with rose-coloured glasses. In the future, either hear out or discuss both sides with the rose-coloured glasses off, or don't talk about it at all. All I hope is that this experience allows Jessi and Lily to do just that.
Listen, I love Jessi and Lily. But I don’t agree with their response at all. I don’t believe that they’re doing it for Johnny’s sake but they are inadvertently defending a lot of what he said on their podcast in an effort to explain away their mistake.
going live soon: www.twitch.tv/theadammcintyre
join discord: discord.gg/muckers
they got the most pressure because they still blamed josh while apologizing the fact they don't know why Josh gave Johnny the number they didnt watch the full swoop
having a platform publicly also changes the responsibilities of certain things
I really appreciate how truthful you are even though how much you like them‼️Real MSM & other platforms could take a page from your book Adam‼️😻😻😻
Adam I would like to applaud you for your insight, your dedication to making sure your thoughts and opinions are well thought out. You are very well spoken for the amount of trauma drama that you have been through at such a young age. I’m sorry that all this has happened but you sir will prevail.
PSA: *misinformation* is unintentionally spreading false information while *disinformation* is purposely spreading misinformation
edit: jk while misinformation is technically an umbrella term that can denote intentional or unintentional spreading of info, in modern syntax it usually denotes unintentionally spreading info
This
Thank you
Heck yes!♥️
Thanks for that clarification, I didn't know that
Misinformation can be intentional or unintentional. Misinformation is “incorrect or misleading information” and disinformation is “false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth.” Source: Merriam-Webster
Its just crazy to me still that Johnny is the only one who has gotten an apology from anyone in the colleen ballinger mess and he still wanted more.
and Josh being the only non-ballinger who extended an apology, it's so telling
I will say that even if someone who was a victim did get an apology from their predator, they don't have to accept it or stop talking about it.
He got an apology so early on this summer it wasn’t enough for him because he knew it wasn’t going to give him the attention he wanted if he didn’t keep it up and start making more of it. It was 100% for social media attention.
@@vekaroni135we all know that.
The context here is Josh did next to nothing to Johnny, got 3-4 apologies in private and then publicly but still kept being absolutely nasty against Josh, even stooping to the level of putting down victims of domestic abuse in the process just because Josh was one. In fact, he actively leveraged Josh’s apologies made in good faith to paint Josh as a predator.
Meanwhile, all the actual victims got was an ukulele song calling them out for being toxic gossipers.
@@vekaroni135Adam has said maybe 1000 times he would stop talking about Colleen if she apologized to him and his parents so it is the case in this particular situation. but in general youre right
I would imagine Josh is so tired of being bullied into a corner, talked over and about, without ever getting a chance to tell his side properly. I can’t even imagine.
Well now he will with Swoop. We need to hold off on making him totally vindicated, even swoop SAYS she knows he did bad things too. I still don’t think all of this makes him totally innocent either. His tweet to that girl was sick and he had absolutely no business giving an underage fan his personal number. Everyone needs to stop speaking in black and white with this. Johnny lied and he used known SA survivors to platform his story, knowing Jessi’s stance on believing victims due to her awful past. John is horrific. But that doesn’t mean Josh is totally innocent either.
@@Cashhhhewi agree. I've always thought like attracts like. Why Colleen's inner circle is just a bunch of mean girls that never matured past tenth grade. Even if Joshua is naturally a good person, he was under the influence of Colleen and he admits he was an alcoholic.
I know it's different in England. But in America "I'm sorry" is an admission of guilt.
@@cmhskyyeah people do awful things when they’re addicts. Not an excuse but an explanation…I don’t think he seems like some monster or someone with power like Colleen who knew exactly what she was doing
He seems like he got caught up in and did bad things but he seems genuinely willing to take accountability but…we shall see 😬
@@Cashhhhew He already knows he isn’t fully innocent, but he wasn’t grooming minors. He’s taken full accountability for that tweet and he and that girl have made peace. He doesn’t really owe US anything. It’s his journey, and the people that can forgive him, either do or don’t. We’re all just here for the ride. Had Johnny never started this, Josh would be off living a quiet life with Pamela. If you’re comparing him to Johnny, you might as well be comparing him to his ex. And we’re not doing that. He’s still doing the work to be a better person.
@@gromit0299 where tf did I compare him to John? 🙄 I just said he’s not some innocent little angel that “needs protection at all cost” the way some people are flipping the script suddenly. And nah imma wait for the Swoop interview to draw conclusions the way you are.
As a victim of SA, grooming and abuse, I think that the “always believe the victim” thing has been broadly misunderstood. The point of it is that we need to stop immediately dismissing them. We need to believe our loved ones when they tell us about it. We need to treat people who make these types of allegations as if they are telling the truth, because 99% of the time, they are. Even if it IS someone you don’t know very well. But my abuser responded to me calling them what they are: an abuser, by telling everyone that I am the abuser. I’ve lost friendships over this because I didn’t speak out as assertively and loudly as she did. Very few people lie about being a victim of grooming, abuse etc, but it does happen and it is done by manipulative, abusive people to protect themselves and hurt others. Nuance people!
This is exactly why this shouldn't be treated as drama. These are serious allegations that need to be treated as such.
Adam, I feel like you should be in PR lol. The way you are able to be so self aware and also view a situation from so many viewpoints and come out with the best possible statement is a talent. Love your videos!
agrreeeeed
yaaasss, eloquent af
He actually studied in PR he mentioned!
I understood what Josh meant by "your experience is valid" immediately. In therapy, I've learned that the way I remember certain situations may not be the way someone else remembers the same situation, and therefore how they feel about me in said situation may differ from how i felt about them. It's why having open conversation and being upfront with your feelings is so important. He was just apologizing for how Johnny said Josh made him feel, and he never admitted guilt per se. He only apologized for adding to a perceived negative experience someone had that included him. And that is valid.
The part where i feel the girls here messed up, is they took the claims at face value and STILL want to validate themselves for the wrong doing on their end. They platformed Johnny, and while I understand not wanting to question a potential abuse victim, it's okay to admit fault and wrongdoing without having the need to justify your actions so heavily that the apology seems unauthentic. Like Adam said, the last 12 minutes is all they needed, everything else just made me feel like they had an L take.
Well said! I love Jessi and Lilly so much and I would NEVER blame them for being duped by that weirdo, Johnny---so many people were. What I do take issue with, is that they continued to double-down on Joshua and used his apology as some sort of justification for their original interview.
the fact that noone told/hounded DWKT to interview josh before SWOOPs video came out. Everyone's hypocrites.
Josh is angry and hurt 100% justified. I get it, I get how people can say it was worded wrong, but he did all the things and he was still lied on and silenced. Johnny is the bad guy and left so many people burning behind him.
Agreed but I also wonder why wasn’t he mad at Ethan :(
@@unpiii exactly, this tells me it wasn’t just an emotional reaction but rather premeditated.
@@unpiiiThat’s been established so many times. SWOOP was willing to get a statement from Josh, and H3 wanted the whole picture, and was also willing to hear Josh out. These two weren’t.
@@JungianHeightsbut SWOOP said that at first she wasn't willing to get a statement from Josh - not until her team found the discrepancies in Johnny's story.
@@vekaroni135 She also said that she barely had to scrape the surface to see Johnny was lying, and as Adam said, he knew all along. SWOOP apologised to Josh with no excuses, and H3 made it right with no excuses either. As Adam said, this was fifty minutes of ifs and buts, when all it needed to be was the last fifteen minutes.
It’s better to not interview victims of any crime if you are not a journalist or a rich mofo willing to settle lawsuits. You will always run the risk of providing a platform to slander. I understand they don’t want to be held up to journalistic standards but that means they need to be careful. Interviewing requires knowledge, experience, and standards. Sorry. They have to be good researchers, like swoop. And they have to be ethical, precisely because they have a platform.
P. S. Adam, your commentary is very on point. Love listening to your analysis. You received a lot of backlash for your actions but you were wise, careful, and trusted your intuition. In the end, you were right. People love to rush to judgement and then have to backpedal to Patagonia when more information comes out.
if they want to have a laid-back low-research podcast that’s fine, but only when they’re choosing to cover topics that aren’t so intense and dangerous to get wrong.
very good point.
My point exactly. This isn’t the first time they’ve covered something serious and it backfired.
Yeah, and in the apology video they said that’s what they would do in the future
@@SarahManch this is why I'm extra disappointed in them tbh, I even commented on their video about Jonah Hill and was glad that they addressed what they would do moving forward.
“It’s not drama, it’s dangerous” - Swoop
i’ve always seen josh’s original apologies to johnny as more of an acknowledgment of johnny’s feelings and not necessarily an admission of guilt. It felt like he was having compassion for someone who felt hurt by him regardless of if he believes he did something wrong.
and also given josh’s internet history and what he’s been through I can completely see why he felt it would be best to validate johnny and move on rather than fighting tooth and nail to disprove everything he said. In my opinion josh was coming at it from a very human place, addressing johnny person to person rather than perpetrator to victim. I think if I was in a situation in real life and not on the internet where someone was saying that they felt hurt by my actions even if I didn’t think I did everything they said I did, I might just apologize because that’s what you do when someone says you hurt them. idk just a ramble. interested to hear what josh says in the swoop interview.
I also read it that way except more in a condescending/minimizing way (when I still believed Johnny). I never thought Josh admitted to grooming, in fact I thought it wasn't a true apology since it did not mention it. I wish Jessi and Lily would just admit they jumped the gun and interpreted his apology wrong, rather than blaming Josh for his verbage.
yes it’s so obvious that the apology is just trying to help johnny move on which is the best joshua could do. it’s weird to pretend it’s an admission of guilt because it’s so clearly carefully worded to not be one lol.
It seems Jessi & Lily think that Josh should have given a more defensive, partial apology like the one they just did.
But everyone would have been just as cynical about that and not seen it as a genuine apology.
I thought Josh was also acknowledging that Johnny was hurt. I was groomed and a survivor of both DA and SA, even still I thought he was genuine. Plus something that not many people are aware of everytime Johnny blasted Josh, Josh would apologize again. He did it four times.
@bavelandloxx - Also, what people are missing about Joshua's apologies is that he's a recovering alcoholic. Part of most recovery programs for addicts is to apologize to everyone you've hurt. Johnny was stating that he was hurt by Josh and Josh was attempting to acknowledge and apologize for any pain he caused. Josh did do some inappropriate things in the Colleen years and he seemed to be trying to take responsibility for that but that's not an admission to grooming. If someone is unclear what an apology is for, then they should ask, not assume.
I feel bad that Johnny put them in such a tough situation, I’ve never seen their podcast but they sound like great people who got manipulated by Johnny like so many others :(
Yeah they are very sweet girls, i like watching them, I just wish they’d handled it better.
Jessie is an SA survivor who was also used and abused by Gabbie Hanna. SWOOP also has a doc about that.
I really believe that they are genuinely good people and I've been a fan of Jessi's for about a decade. ❤
Lets stop saying they were in a tough situation. They didn't have to cancel Josh
They weren't in a "tough situation". They chose to be unprofessional (unlike Swoop & her team) & only bothered to cater to one side of the story. Joshua reached out several times to them, willing to engage in conversation. He was ignored.
Summary: "We're sorry that you are so awful, Joshua, and did so many bad things that nobody would want to hear your side of the story; we're sorry that you kept saying 'sorry' to Johnny. We're sorry Swoop took too long to get her video out, why didn't she TELL us about it? We're sorry it looks like we didn't do due diligence (although we did pretty good actually, so sorry not sorry) We're sorry *if* you think we rolled our eyes at you, Joshua" etc. This was a horrible apology that could only be made worse if there was a ukelele in it. I appreciate that you love these two creators, Adam, but my first introduction to them is this video, and I wasn't impressed. What I did like a lot was Adam's fairness and honesty in looking at the content here, bearing in mind how much he really, really likes them. I had hoped to like them too. Never say never- I should watch one of their other podcasts. Thanks Adam, a terrific video from you 🙂
One thing that really frustrates me is that they dont seem to actually read Josh's apology properly, at all. He apologises for the things he has done, things he has admitted and taken accountability for. NO WHERE does he apologise for being a groomer or any of the other lies John Silvestri spread. Just because he apologised for one thing, doesn't mean everything is true. Its so very bizarre they are even trying to argue that.
Thank you for saying this! It was driving my crazy the whole video.
My thoughts exactly. He could even have been apologizing in the sense of “I’m sorry if I made you feel that way”
Ehm i dont know in my oppinion its quite easy to understand how they came to that conclusion. josh was being accused of beeing a groomer and he apologised (not for beeing a groomer, but he also did not deny that claim in his apology). Its just comfimation bias on lilly and jessys part. nothing more nothing less
You missed the part where Johnny only referred to Josh as a gateway groomer on their podcast, they never once said josh admitted to being a groomer via his apology, only that they felt he had admitted to having inappropriate interactions with Johnny and other child fans. I don’t recall Jessi and Lily ever calling Josh a groomer, that word only came from Johnny.
I read the apology wrongly too, I thought Josh was underestimating the relationship he had with Johnny, and apologizing cause something must had happened, and confirming things in Johnny story that make me think that the grooming was true, only that he didn’t want to say it. Why apologize so many times to someone calling you a groomer, without saying clearly "I didn’t groomed you, we didn’t even talked at all".
Another issue on "attacking" Joshua for those "blanket apologies": Joshua was in rehab. A huge part of rehab includes apologising to ANYONE you potentially harmed or hurt in the time you were using. It's incredibly weird and honestly vile to use that against him - especially when those apoligies were misconstrued and not taken at face value.. to me Jessi and Lily don't seem really apologetic, just passive-aggressive and self-defensive. Yuck.
This makes me want to hear Peter monn s opinion on this
Josh is very understandably upset. He’s had so many lies spread about him he’s just tired I think
I hate that in a strange convoluted way, Johnny has got what he’s wanted - he’s the star of the show. I really hope that swoop’s next part rounds this back to the main villain of this story, Colleen. I hate that this, what he’s done, takes away from the real victims stories and the core issues here. Still holding out for you Adam, all of this has been so unfair on you from the beginning
I have faith that Jessi & Lily will make it right after the next installment of Swoop’s documentary airs. One thing I noticed about Johnny is that he’s VERY charismatic & manipulative. I didn’t notice what a creep he was until after Swoop brought the other details to light. He DEFINITELY had these two manipulated. And unfortunately for them, there didn’t seem to be any neutral source of public info they could cite to fact check Johnny’s claims.
You make a good point, he likely had talks with them behind the scenes to manipulate them more to his side.
That doesn’t excuse their poor treatment of a possible case of grooming. That ended up a case of defamation btw…
Pdta: Defamation from Johnny to Josh, not Lily and Jessi. The “grooming” case transformed into a defamatory accusation. That’s what I meant!
He had me manipulated too I was commenting on their video how nice he is for doing the interview a 2nd time. Now I understand why he was so willing
@@HadenBlakeFor public figures (which they all are at this point), knowingly or with reckless disregard for the truth, but essentially, yes. Given what was publicly available at the time, I agree you'd have a hard time saying it was with malicious intent.
@@dddottir5935I think when the allegations got that serious, Joshua should've unambiguously denied Johnny's allegations. Adam and everyone else can say that they got the impression his apologies hinted that their relationship wasn't what Johnny was saying, but if Joshua had come out saying "Johnny, I'm sorry I couldn't be a mentor, but I did not groom you and we were not close", it would've been a completely different situation. He sat on evidence that would exonerate himself and then wondered why no one believed him or looked any further. I just don't get why he did or didn't do what he did/didn't, especially given how flimsy Johnny's story was in reality.
My problem is that Jessi & Lilly interviewed Johnny TWICE - there was an audio issue the first time. So, they went through the story more than most other podcasts have. There must've been an instance where his story changed, especially since he wasn't as well rehearsed as he was when he started doing more interviews. They probably picked up on it and chose to ignore it because they told themselves that Johnny is a victim and that he was more important than the fact that his story didn't align. Secondly, they (I think it was actually Jessi) said that they were not going to interview Josh, or listen to his side, because he is not a victim. Then, it turned out that Josh *IS* the victim and they go and use his apology against him and basically telling him that he can't be a victim because he gave a mature apology to Johnny. It makes me angry.
I think they put too much dip on their chip. They are a GOSSIP podcast. Situations that are this multifaceted and so nuanced with ACTUAL crimes being committed, you need to admit that certain things are out of scope. I’ve been a fan of Jessi since vine, but this apology should’ve been 10-15 minutes at most. Just admitted you were out of line and apologize. Period
THIS
100%. This “apology” was super annoying. I could barely watch it.
Agree!
Agreed. Hard to watch this one.
i would be inclined to disagree purely because while johnny lied and was terrible to josh and they should apologise for the coverage of these issues, josh was still in these groupchats and tiny chats with minors with colleen and the distinction should be made that there are still some truths that children did experience and to apologise for everything would discredit everything that's been said regarding minor interactions with colleen and josh (and johnny now can add him to the list)
Instead of simply apologizing for handling this badly and for blatantly ignoring one side of the story in favor of another, they bumbled around the whole time, basically rolling their eyes at Josh and his trauma, deflecting like there's no tomorrow, sending their fans towards critics,( because that's what's happening if you mention a critic by NAME and rant about them!), and saying "Oh if he only produced evidence against Johny, we would've listened!"
, while blindly believing Johny without ANY kind of evidence.
Girls...do better!
Journalism is a skill set that is learned, most podcasters aren’t skilled in interviewing in order to get a balanced and honest take. Most podcasters are skilled in discussion which is totally fine. They just need to understand which skill set they have and stick with that until they want to get the skill set to interview properly. Now that this info is out, the ethical thing to do is make it right by Josh.
Jessi and Lily said it themselves: they’re not journalists. Josh accepted their apology, from what I remember. But he said he’s waiting for his Swoop episode to drop.
Jessie and Lily were some of the many who gave Johnny a voice, and were fooled by his deceitfulness. They handled the Josh thing poorly after the fact, and that's fair. However, you cannot put the blame on them alone. Everyone who interviewed him (albeit Swoop) was fooled.
The only thing I think they should be fully blamed for is the fact that they laughed at Josh and his experiences. Josh was been open about his abuse from Colleen for a while now. Swoop didn’t laugh at Josh. Not to mention they didn’t even mention Josh in the written apology.
Even Swoop was fooled too. If she hadn't let Johnny talk in full circles for 6 hours she would've never caught him in his lies.
No one's blaming them for being deceived, we're saying the way they handled Josh's side after the fact is unprofessional and poorly handled
@@pinguufuuuu johnny spoke himself in circles long before everything, swoop was sort of irked from the get go
@@Anna-pm3fq I don't think they laughed at Josh's ab•se? I could totally be wrong though. I know they admitted to rolling their eyes at what they thought was a "BS statement," but the statement didn't include anything about his ab•se and experiences with Colleen.
I don’t blame them for lending their platform to someone who they believed to be a victim. I however take issue with how they handled Josh. In their own words they could have easily told Josh they would speak to him if he could provide evidence Johnny was lying. Even in their apology they are super defensive and blaming Josh for him not offering them any evidence. How exactly was he supposed to do that when they wouldn’t even speak to him? I don’t think I would of had such an issue with it if they would have just said they had no desire to speak to him. Even in the beginning when I believed Johnny it irked me how they mocked Josh. The way he reached out to them didn’t warrant that type of reaction.
Yeah just the mocking was the problem
Hear hear. Even saying he has the right to voice his opinion, TO AN EXTENT. Flabbergasted.
Josh never admitted to anything close to grooming John. They said his statements were all vague, but he was actually pretty specific in what he was apologizing for (ex. the phone number and the Sara account). He said that John's feelings were valid, not that everything he said about him was true. They're blaming him for their own misunderstanding and not actually reading what he said. They could've easily just asked for more information, too, but chose not to. Willful ignorance is still ignorance 🤷♀️
YES. I don't understand why people try so hard to defend this. It feels like willful ignorance because they are "stans" and it is so frustrating, lol. Most of us here are fans and we have every right to be disappointed.
The big issue I think Jessi especially dealt with here is that hearing out the accused abuser in this kind of situation. Gabby traumatized Jessi by hearing out her abuser. Jessi probably instinctively shyed away from doing what she felt like was the same. I think Johnny played spesiffically on that.
The most twisted part for me is that John had the audacity to compare this fictitious story about himself to Jessie's assault. It is wicked.
I completely agree with your standpoint in this. And I think that it is important for all of us to try and think more broadly, instead of putting all of the blame on one person when there is more than one person involved.
Them blaming Josh for his apology and basically being like "you should have beem more believable than Johnny" completely victim blaming him and refusing to take accountability id fucking insane
THANK YOU
This is my first introduction to the DWKT podcast. I admit I found the fact that the majority of the podcast was seemingly more about why Joshua screwed up and made Johnny believable. I can understand a little bit of an explanation, but it started to feel a bit like they were harping on Josh being somewhat guilty. Especially since they hadn't really apologized. They had acknowledged some of it, but yeah it felt like more fingerpointing to me. To the point i didn’t even make it to the apology portion. It felt very victim blamey. I didn't see their interviews with him. I do think it sounds like they are being unfairly targeted, but this was awful. Maybe as I watch the rest with Adam I will feel better, but if you can't make it through the justification to get the apology, is it an apology?
Edit: after finishing this I feel no better. This wasn't an apology it was a chance to put Josh on low key trial where even if Johnny lied they are justified because obviously Josh is guilty of something.
I appreciate Adam being able to speak truth to friends. He is more generous than me, but he has the knowledge and relationship I don't. I don't know if I will ever watch them after this.
Absolutely agree with you
They we’re extremely unprofessional, the eyes rolling, the victim blaming, trying to deflect by mentioning other people that also believed johny…if both of them could not figure out they were wrong, they need to find another profession quick
I really wanted to like them because Adam spoke so compassionately on the swoop doc about how awful they’d feel finding out Johnny used them to platform his crusade.
But it doesn’t seem like they feel that way at all.
Same. It was my first introduction to them and I don’t think I will be subscribing. Victim shaming at its worst.
DWKT's fans are still hating on Adam to this day for this extremely fair criticism over their "apology". It's pathetic how they've deflected blame so hard and have taken the victim mentality over their own actions. Also super gross that their fans are now taking Ethan's side in the recent H3 drama. Like they're so mad that Adam was mildly critical of the "girlies" that they think that Ethan was justified in making up that Adam creeped his mom and sending a mob after him? I can't stand these influencers being infantilized when they cause harm. DWKT has no standards for the information they put out and they're not victims of the problems they cause.
My only problem with their video was that they weren't more angry dissapointed or annoyed with Johnny. They tried to defend why they treated Joshua how they did instead on going hard on someone who's literally made eveyone look bad and also made victims uncomfortable. I also do like Jesse and Lily they cool however the way they sometimes speak about things aren't my favorite so I've slowly stopped watching their podcast. But yeah that was my only issue with it.
Right? They sound more annoyed at Joshua for putting them in this situation than at Johnny.
Yes! Why were they not more angry at Johnny??
Jessi has always been super self righteous. She has always rubbed me the wrong way.
They did voice their disappointment with him multiple times Idk what else yall wanted them to say?? The reason they talked so much about Josh is because him and a lot of other ppl started accusing them of things so they rightfully tried to defend themselves by providing context
@@a.m2707 I wouldn't say that. I mean Lily was backing her up and vice versa.
Josh’s responses to Johnny were plain and simply a way to try to get Johnny to leave him alone because he was being SO aggressive. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to see. I’m also confused because Jessi and Lily say they watched Swoop’s video that shows Johnny deleted messages. But they still say they don’t see any evidence from Josh to support him and Josh should reach out to them if he has any. I’m baffled
I don’t understand eithr because tbh when he first came out w the statements I feel like everyone was so mad because they weren’t satisfactorily covering what they thought happened?? Like idk I’ve always just been confused about the whole josh/john stuff but these two ppl are just being like extremely hypocritical. never watched them before and now i won’t cuz this apology was weird
It’s so sad because everyone trusted Johnny and believed him because nobody wanted to not believe it. Because everything else was true nobody could of imagined that anyone would lie and try to make a come up on the situation. It’s sad because it takes away from the real victims like you Adam,Becky and Oliver. It disgusts me that Johnny talked over Becky and Oliver on h3. Saying there needs to be a “leader”. Hell no it’s about each of them telling their story equally. Nobody’s trauma is more important.
He is a narcissist or sociopath.
not everyone believed johnny but those of us that pointed out his inconsistencies were ripped a new one and silenced
As a person who laughs at my trauma and has a disorder that fricks with my memory, I totally believed Johnny, though I had a soft spot for Josh since he was the only guy from that terrible crew apologizing and not giving his victims a giant 🖕
What Johnny did deligitimized Josh, Adam’s, Jesse, Swoop and people in my position’s pain.
I just really hope this doesn’t run Jessi off the internet again. Really thinking of her and her mental health rn because their intentions were not bad. Jessi & Lily are so genuine. Saying they shouldn’t have done it is such a hindsight thing. I bet they feel like that now, too. They believed someone who said that they were a victim.
It’s not hindsight, I think Adam explains it well. If you have only done a few interviews it is not a good idea to interview someone who you think is a child grooming victim. It’s not a good idea beforehand, and it showed.
@@TheOtherChosenOnes This was an excellent point. This interview shouldn't have happened, even if they did believe Johnny.
Yeah I love them both so much, I don’t doubt for one second jessi and lily had good intentions. I hope they’re okay 😣
@@sophiaa7995this!
I genuinely don't believe they care about Josh, though. I think they care about being right and not sucking it up and admitting they were wrong. I had NO opinion prior on them to this situation. Now I have a very negative opinion and I will recommend people to not support their channel, as they do not actually support victims. They both need to step away and reevaluate themselves and behavior. I do wish them the best, and I do not think they should be harassed. Just held accountable. Harassment is not holding accountable, and holding accountable is not harassment
@@sanityshorrorJosh was still highly inappropriate during that time it wasnt a lie
As someone who is almost double (yikes) your age, I really admire your maturity, empathy, and critical eye when speaking to this situation.
I can’t imagine how Josh feels. The abuse of Colleen, the abuse from the public, having your name dragged through the mud and people literally lying about you on podcasts and videos…he’s handling it much better than I would. I don’t know if I would make it out alive. Honestly.
He barely did
@@seriouslyoverit2971 ugh I know 💔😔 I feel for him
@@Keepitpink same 😔
Thanks Adam. I actually couldn’t sit through the video because it was so victim blamey, filled with excuses, and dismissive to me from the start. I couldn’t even get to their apology. They definitely did themselves a disservice with all the extra stuff. Without your video here I don’t think I would’ve even known that because I couldn’t sit through it was so triggering. And I tried like three times. I made it to 14 minutes and then I just couldn’t.
I think their defensiveness is directly proportionate to how much backlash theyre getting. The more people giving them a hard time the more they felt they had to defend themselves
I can understand this take, but it definitely does not excuse the way they handled it. I feel like Jessi being someone who is used to getting a lot of backlash should know that you don’t have to defend every little action to apologize and take accountability.
@@Reffienessbut they didn’t do anything wrong 💀 johnny had so many creators manipulated, somehow they’re the only ones who got backlash for believing him. even swoop herself initially interviewed johnny as a victim.
@@maeve292Lily posting the community post statement without putting Josh’s name is when they started to get the most backlash. Not apologizing to the person affected the most by this was wrong. Lily should have added his name or just said “Jessi and I will address this in a video.”
@@imjustaturtle641 they literally discussed that what more do you want them to do? Like the past is the past they're addressing it now.
@@imjustaturtle641think about what you're complaining about in the grand scheme of things. Child groomer Colleen abusive wife toxic inappropriate people in her team lying about being victims and you're complaining that a podcast didn't mention Joshua's name in their community post. This is just garbage polluting the main issue
I think they had good intentions, but i think they were a bit too defensive in their apology and it came across as trying to blame josh for their own mistakes instead of just apologizing and being like "we thought we were doing the best we could with the information we had, but we realize that we didn't really do the best we could"
Agreed, it’s completely fair enough for them to say that they had good intentions, but they should also admit that they fucked up
they did apologized, for their attitud and beliving johnny, they just explained why they believed him and people are taking that as excuses, they are just explaining their train of thoughts at that moment.
@@maluvidazocar2895they didn’t need to drag it on for 50 mins. The last part was all they needed. The rest was them just blaming Josh for not standing up for himself (like they would have believed him anyways) and making excuses for themselves
I see it as being similar to the Colleen and Trisha situation. People can acknowledge that Trisha has done bad things in their past but is still a victim and was wronged. Joshua is a victim but he also admitted to inappropriate behavior that shouldn't be washed away because Johnny lied. It'll be the same if Colleen tried to used Johnny as an example to discredit Adam, Becky, Oliver, etc. I think also with the amount of backlash they were getting questioning their integrity; they had to explain why they believed it at the time. I think it's important to allow people to grow and change their opinions when new information is presented. That wasn't allowed for Jessi and Lily. They were expected to know everything watch the 4hr video and respond in the same day. The unrealistic expectations placed on them wasn't fair and I understand why they'd come off as defensive.
@@yingyang2838oh my god you people are never satisfied
A complicated situation. They can be lovely individuals, but if they can't make an apt interview and handle the backlash without getting defensive and making themselves look worse... they should stay out of it.
SUCH a good point.
This is a much more graceful version of what’s in my head. You must be a beautiful person.
100%
The whole first part of the video negates the last 12 minutes for sure.
Yes, honestly it feels so forced to defend them. They fucked it up. That's it. Don't get deffensive.
It kind of sucks that Jessi and Lily are using Josh's apologies to Johnny as an excuse for their lack of care around the situation, because I feel like his apology was one of the most sincere and well-done I've seen online. They should have taken some notes. I guess Josh could have been more clear about what he specifically did and what he did not do (although I thought it was pretty clear that he was NOT admitting to grooming) - but it seemed like he was legitimately trying to take accountability and validate/protect Johnny's feelings, rather than in any way trying to excuse or minimize his actions. That kind of sincere and careful apology should be praised, not used as ammunition against Josh.
This, plus as Radiant Britt mentioned it’s how someone in AA would apologize as part of the 12 step program.
"Don't admit something and apologise if it isn't something you did, stand your ground" This is so victim-blamey of them tbh. Something trauma survivors often do as a way of protecting themselves is fawn. Fawning is when a victim will placate and appease perpetrators of abuse to minimise the amount of abuse and volatility towards them. Johnny was being very aggressive towards Joshua in his tweets and allegations that, while I believe Joshua was trying to also be empathetic towards Johnny's feelings, I believe he was also hoping to reduce the hostility thrown his way as a trauma response.
This!! And the fact that most of the time too abusers make victims actually feel responsible until they can unpack it later and realize they did nothing wrong.
You’d think jessi the victim smiles would be better but no.
Its not only trauma. Sometimes you can do/say something that you think is completely fine, but for some people it can be hurtful. So what now, you dont apologize for that?
I bet you have flipped and flopped on the Josh situation, it’s so rare for someone to pretend to be a victim. If they initially didn’t believe Johnny, you’d still be complaining about their stances….yall are so fucking tired lmao
Poor Josh he cannot get away from this. Thanks Adam for being so considerate of a person who was roped into so much BS.
He should not get away with inviting kids to his hotel room though.
His Ex-wife was also there … Or are you intentionally forgetting that little detail? @@Idontwantanat
@@Send_In_The_Clowns is Colleen getting away with it? We all hate her, that’s literally how this whole situation even started. This comes across as whataboutism.
I’m a few years older than Adam & I really am in awe of how he conducts himself & the incredibly insightful points he makes. He is young & still learning, but I commend him for his strength & conduct when dealing with such a vulnerable and public situation. He should be very proud of himself 🙏🏼
If i was Joshua, i'd be beyond pissed. He handled it better than me
The difference is Josh knows what he's done and you don't. The context for people believing Johnny is rooted in Josh's real admitted interaction with underaged fans
Agreed
i would've had a cease and desist sent straight to their houses. absolutely ridiculous
@@largesquids it's ridiculous how Adam expressing reservations has made you guys go beserk hating on the girls and painting as a saint a man who by his own admission and according to video evidence had inappropriate interactions with minors
@@thefelicitsthere is a difference between inappropriate and predatory.
When you know you did something wrong, you don't try to constantly defend yourself before saying sorry, it erases the credibility in your apology. We all know the context, we all were lied to by Johnny, saying it wasn't misinformation because they believed it was true is not only disingenous but dangerous too. I hope they learn from this and chose better the subjects of their new episodes.
Absolutely WILD they're claiming some of Johnny's claims were credible (like hours of video chatting); completely erases any legitimate "apology" to Josh that they're failing at miserably; no accountability AT ALL, and STILL spreading mis/disinformation, all while NOT apologizing...
I think they were trying to explain what led to them acting as they didz they took responsibility, they just explained why they came to conclusions
@@Starburst514 That could have been done in a way that doesn't include rolling their eyes in annoyance, saying they weren't spreading misinformation because they believed Johnny at the moment, having credibility standards with Josh that didn't apply to Johnny, and spending most of their video showing the faults of Josh. Lets remember that this apology wasn't only to their audience but to Josh as well, I don't think they are actually sorry with him when they kept speaking about how Josh should have done this and shouldn't have done that.
@@Zharizard666I'm assuming they only came out because of the backlash
Yup. It's blurring the narrative. You're either backpaddling or doubling down. Can't be both.
I think it was important for them to explain where they were coming from instead of the narrative of they didn't care and didn't give him a chance while I do agree they should have given him a chance to tell his side. Also I do agree that Josh's apologies were confusing same thing Ethan brought up that if Josh had those texts why didn't he come out with them which is very confusing. While at the time he didn't want to take more heat they are serious allegations and I definitely wouldn't take that lightly or let someone run with that if it wasnt true.
This is a little bit unfair since even Swoop believed Johnny at the beginning. It wasn’t until he kept changing his story and constantly contradicting himself in her interviews that she grew suspicious. Also, there was the benefit of Johnny going on multiple interviews and constantly tweeting lies for a while, Jessi and Lily didn’t had any of that information.
Moreover, even you didn’t wanted to publicly push back on Johnny’s story after clocking his contradictions when he was running his mouth. BTW, I’m sorry you felt afraid to speak up against that lying snake and I’m very glad Swoop worked with you to handle him.
I think by the time he made it to SWOOP he had so many holes in his story that it was more possible for her to find him sketchy.
Her incredible ability to spot this thing was also a good catch. Something that Lilly and Jessi don’t have. Especially an entire team behind to spot the flaws.
I’m glad he’s caught and Josh can have some peace, but also think is atrocious what they’re doing to Lilly and Jessi
seeing someone who understands omfg
Yes!
Swoop said from the beginning that she had reached out to Josh. Because of that, the truth would have come out regardless of what he said. That’s why journalistic integrity is important.
@@MsAuntie-Heroswoop was the first interview tho wasnt it? Wasn’t her interview what kicked off his visibility?
I don't think they had bad intentions, but their response was very disappointing. It felt like they were being forced to say sorry, but didn't truly mean it because there was always an implied BUT after every apology. Personally, I wasn't upset with them until I watched their response video.
I completely agree with you!! There were so many things about it that made me upset. I watched the whole thing waiting for a clear disavow and apology and they never gave it.
I agree their apologies seemed forced and still speculating and victim blaming Josh
Agree
You don’t have anything else in your life to be upset about?😭 that upset u rlly?😭
@@abiStallia very real man has been dragged publicly by those two over crimes he did not commit. His trauma was diminished and made light of on their platform, so yes, I think Josh deserves people online sticking up for him the way this commenter has
I was waiting for your review of this I love lily & jessi so much, but this subject is serious and has so many layers. Unfortunately I think everyone has their own personal bias that will affect how they create an opinion. I feel for everyone that is involved and has been hurt. Just unfortunate things like this even happen and the list of victims will probably never be fully known, and how it is all on the internet which is something I could not fathom at all. Just hope there will be some peace soon for you all❤
their "if you truly werent in the wrong, why did you not stand your ground" is beyond victim blaming, its a disgusting claim. its basically "well if that person hurt you why didnt you speak out before" that Johnny was already spewing against Josh
They could have just apologized for platforming Johnny without investigating his claims or asking him to provide any evidence. Instead they assumed that Josh's apology was an admission of guilt and dismissed him when he requested the same platform they provided Johny to counter.
Though I don't blame them for wanting to protect and believe an alleged victim, they enabled him and had little regard for how serious the topic of grooming is because they were underprepared in comparison to Swoop. The nature of the swoops series is to actually investigate and find the truth via actual evidence which is why Johnny's story fell flat. Thankfully her video won't allow for his lies to escalate further.
Maybe because Josh did literally admit to being guilty of some of the claims? He is a victim, sure. He’s also the perpetrator of some things as well.
But josh’s apology really DID sound like an admission of guilty to lots of people. I completely get why they thought that at least - and comparing them to swoop feels like a lot. They weren’t in the right here but I don’t think anyone expects swoop level investigation from anyone. Idk. I just feel like they’re getting a lot of backlash when they’re obviously not malicious. They deserved to be called out but they’re not stupid either. Lots of us would have done the same.
@@IdontwantanatThey didn’t though. Did nobody listen to Adam?
@@JungianHeights he literally did, he acknowledged he was weird to the minor he made the “horny” joke towards and he is on record with unsupervised children at his hotel room. It’s literally on the video regardless or,whether adam acknowledges it or not.
@@Idontwantanat I’m not going to comment on allegations against Josh at this time.
And when Josh is literally the only one trying to take accountability and apologizing for whatever he did do
They are blaming him for taking accountability and it’s crazy
josh repeatedly apologized for things he DIDNT do (which makes no sense) and he never denied any of johnny’s allegations until after their podcast episode was posted.
@@maeve292I feel like the lack of denying was more so him being afraid of possible backlash. Remember, Colleen’s fans bullied him off the internet years ago so there’s a possibility he was afraid if he came out on his own and denied denied denied he’d get in huge trouble for attacking an alleged victim.
@@memememememe1287that might be very well be the case, but jessi and lily can’t be blamed for his approach then. Their original interpretation of his statements are reasonable, although they could have had a better attitude about it, which they acknowledged.
No, their original statements were not appropriate given the seriousness of the allegations. I don't know what rational person sees Josh's statements and is like welp, case closed. Nothing to wonder about at all. They were rude and dismissive based on their own bias and I really wish they would have owned up to that instead of consistently blaming him in this instance. They are simply not good at receiving criticism and yes, criticism can come from fans, not just evil internet trolls.
props bud for putting your bias aside to cover this. bc anyone could easily just "pick a side" or just ignore this one, it shows you have integrity. i do agree that the girls should have handled this differently and im glad theyre making changes to improve. also love their content and yours. this years been wild man
The responsibility needs to be put on Johnny for manipulating them. That said, they should have handled the situation where Josh asked to share his side much better.
Also them for taking on this kind of subject and trying to double down on their misinformation of Josh and continuing to blame him while trying to save their behind.
this is the most "we are sorry BUT" apology which makes it a non apology for me
For me the big problem is that their justification that Josh must have done it because Josh apologized because he made Johnny feel bad meant that he must have done it. He was in a lose-lose situation: apologizing and the world thinking that he did it, or try to defend himself and being told he was re-victimizing Jonny and that he was lying.
This is why not everybody should be involving themselves and covering this kind of topic.
Honestly more people need to have this take. Journalists have training in this, (not saying they always are perfect at it, but still) not everyone needs to cover every topic and be an interviewer or a journalist on serious topics especially if they’re ongoing.
SO many TH-camrs jump onto hot, trending topics for clicks before getting all the information. It's frankly super irresponsible.
@@xoxocessa From the type of podcast the DWKT girls run they are simply not fit to interviews people about very serious situations.
yep, people need to learn that they shouldn’t insert themselves in other peoples business
Exactly! This is NOT a topic you cover just for views and subscribers. This is REAL LIFE TRAUMA! These people struggle, daily. And not handling the interview the right way, could end up exploiting or victimizing these people again. It’s such a shame.
This wasn’t an apology, and I don’t know them from whoever, but this was a video to kind of push the blame off on anything they could. “We are sorry, but…” which is not an apology.
💯
I am so, so, so glad you posted this. I immediately thought that their video was not great. I mean, it just made me feel very… icky the whole time. I was crushed by this response and the fact that they spent like 40 minutes completely blaming everything on Josh. And that’s what it was-They were blaming Josh for their lack of due diligence. they saw his posts and made gross assumptions when they had a fraction of the full story.
I completely 100% agree that the last 12 minutes of the episode should’ve been the full video. And I also think that it’s a bit crummy that it was the length of a full podcast. It just didn’t say accountability to me.
Same
Kept waiting for a uke
because they didn’t do anything malicious and have been unfairly targeted. jessi clearly cares so deeply for victims and to suggest otherwise is actual insanity. josh never once refuted johnny’s claims until after the episode was posted. all he did was say johnny was valid and apologize repeatedly. there’s a reason why everyone, not just lily and jessi, everyone believed johnny initially.
@@kaligibbs3633 except that I literally said I’ve been feeling this way since they posted it. I’m a bigger fan of the DWKT podcast than I am of Adam but okay.
The majority of people were not happy with their conduct of mocking him. Believing Johnny was never the issue. I just hope they do better going forward
With the hindsight of Swoop’s video I can understand that, but at the time I also understood why they were frustrated because it seemed-based on the information available at the time and based on what all Josh had provided-that he was threatening legal action against them over Johnny misrepresenting that one tweet during their interview.
I completely understand how frustrated he must have been, but I think he could have responded a bit better, and had some patience for them to film and post a response. By the time they were able to sit down and record he had been tweeting at them a lot and again, it appeared as thought he was upset about the small detail of that one tweet being misrepresented.
I’m not saying they handled their frustration well either, I’m just saying that I don’t think either side was completely in the right, but we should remember that Johnny was the one who was 100% in the wrong.
@JNDReacts if they had reached out to Josh for a comment then it would have been made abundantly clear that Johnny was lying. The problem is that they presumed guilt over innocence. Every journalist knows to reach out to the perpetrator to give them an opportunity for comment before making any claims about them. It's just common sense.
@@JNDReactsrolling their eyes and mocking him won’t make him come forward with information. They were unprofessional
@@bobococo89 I'm 100% with you! They were incredibly unprofessional. And their reaction created an environment where I personally saw their fans go after Josh. So AGAIN he was targeted by fans for something he didn't do.
Indeed! If they only said “hey, we had a bias against Joshua and we’re sorry” they don’t even need a 50 minute video! They keep complaining about Swoop’s video being 4 hours long but their 50 minute non-apology is okay. We all are human and we all have biases we don’t even realize.
It’s kinda weird to me that they’re still giving weight to anything Johnny says. Even if it is true, Johnny ruined his own credibility and doesn’t deserve any trust imo.
I feel like still trusting johnny for some things is an effort to make them look less responsible for not doing their due diligence in looking into his accusations.
THIS.
its so crazy for them to say "not every victim has evidence" in the same breath as they say "josh never showed us evidence, josh reach out for us if we missed evidence cause we didnt find any"
I think that may be because they viewed him as a perpetrator. Most people in the court of public opinion when presented with someone who is accused of wrongdoing will think guilty until proven innocent. Extrapolating that would mean you may want an accused perpetrator of wrongdoing to present evidence to prove their innocence sine the presumption is guilt. Not saying that it's right, it's just human nature I think.
But it's also super crazy for people to be slamming them for giving Johnny a platform without vetting his statements while being mad they didn't give Joshua a platform because they couldn't vet a lot of his statements. Either way yall are gonna think they did the wrong thing, they can't win.
FACTS!
They thought he was an abuser and thats the whole point of the "believe the victim first" thing. Like I'm not understanding what's the confusion around this.
@@pinguufuuuuthank you! They weren’t saying Josh needed to prove he was a victim, they were saying they needed some sort of evidence that he wasn’t a perpetrator. How irresponsible would it be to platform an accused perpetrator and then later find out that that person really is guilty, and now you’ve let them onto your show to potentially invalidate their victim?
Of course the obvious answer in hindsight is to not have either party on if you don’t have the resources to properly vet everything, but it sounds like they’ve really learned that lesson.
their response did come from a place of defensiveness and still perhaps a bit rushed from the looks of it. I feel for them both and at the end of the day they were also manipulated and led to believe these damaging accusations - like who in their right mind would spread all these lies about people?? but that's besides the point.
their intentions were pure but execution was misguided now that we have the whole picture and I'm sure we've all learnt a lot from this experience. thanks Adam for always being so candid, no doubt this whole ordeal would've been tormenting from your perspective but you were still so objective and kind despite everything.
Honestly Josh’s anger was 100% justified. I’ve never watched Jessie or Lily’s podcast but man did some of their takes scream problematic and lack of accountability for not reaching out to Josh or handling that properly. Sorry but some of the things they said and their defensiveness just showed that they’re not really sincere in their “apology” over this, more like they now needed to apologize to Josh to not receive more backlash. AND the fact that Jessie criticized Josh for not forcing himself to speak up or standing up for himself in his past with Colleen and saying it was a “disservice to himself.” Weird. Just my opinion.
I'm a childhood abuse victim and I can't understand this whole "I'm finding it hard to side with anyone but the accuser" mentality. I'm even more shocked that someone who was abused is coming out and telling people that sometimes they just have to come out with their story. It's really dangerous to do this. As a victim of abuse, I could tell right away that Johnny was throwing around the word 'grooming' without actually knowing what it meant. Again as a victim of abuse I can absolutely understand and sympathise with josh and his statements. In fact, to me, it seems he is just trying to appease the situation and make Johnny feel validated. Josh is also probably battling with an intense flight response at the moment. He's probably getting triggered around the clock by things happening at the moment. I mean Jessi is trying to defend the victims, likely because she knows how it feels to not be believed or how stressful it is to come out about something, hoping that people will believe you just for her to say "I don't want to hear your side" to Josh when he was doing just that, as a victim. I don't think an abuse victim it too biased to discuss a subject like this, I just think they need to be careful in how they define a victim.
exactly my thoughts as someone who went through something similar 👏🏽
The point that a lot of people are missing is that no one is blaming them for platforming Johnny. What people are largely taking issue with is how they handled things AFTER Swoop's doc came out and to a certain extent, their unprofessional attitude in the video before this. The eye-rolling and the dismissiveness in addressing Josh reaching out to them was uncalled for. I get why Jessi's instinct is to not platform an alleged abuser, but there were better ways of getting that point across instead of that superciliousness (especially from Lily) which rubbed me the wrong way.
But, I take serious issue with them saying that an apology is an admission of guilt. Nowhere in his FOUR (count them, four! - while the real victims get ZERO from Colleen. But that's a whole other conversation.=) apologies, does he ever admit to grooming or apologise for grooming Johnny. And to those saying "He needs to be more specific in future." - put yourself in his shoes there. He's being relentlessly hounded by Johnny - it's hard to even think straight when someone is just *coming* at you. All in all their whole video was so victim-blamey, I had to stop watching.
Couldn’t agree with this more. That’s exactly how I felt. I actually stopped watching it halfway through. I understand not platforming an alleged abuser as well, but they could have handled it so much better. They kind of treated Josh like dirt in my opinion.
💯
exactly.
I stopped watching too! I didn’t blame them for the original episode, but the addressing everything episode was the problem. They did roll their eyes at josh. They did buy into the concert story that made no sense... just say sorry and leave it at that
I stopped watching 10 minutes in. It gave me bad vibes.
Lily and Jessi fumble the card on this one
“We believed Johnny because Josh apologized” is such a ridiculous excuse for their poor critical thinking. Do they not know how many narc victims apologize to their abusers and try to validate their feelings? Johnny is Josh’s abuser. And also, JOHNNY was the one who had to prove Josh was guilty.
I’m sorry. This video felt more of a “we are sorry for this BUT JOSH ALSO DID-” so I don’t have many positive opinions about it.
This was the most baffling thing to me, really. Like not once do they apply any critical thinking while serving up this excuse.
They should have just straight up said we didn't want to risk platforming an alleged abuser. That's it. This ridiculous excuse just made it worse, when it needn't have been.
The lack of reading comprehension is astounding
@@carolprince16 or just apologizing because they kept pointing at things Josh did wrong like ????? Adam said it. THERE IS NO PERFECT VICTIM!
When it comes to Josh, I believe he was simply exhausted, possibly defeated. so he just apologized for everything, even though he did not do everything that was accused of. And later on, he realizes that wasn't the greatest thing to do. And I understand why he's upset; he wasn't given the opportunity to share his mind.
And to jessi and lily sometimes you have to set your personal biases aside and hear all of the people involved.
I feel like when he issued the statement offering grace to jessi and Lily after their video he was exhausted too. I really feel for this guy he’s been told to stfu for years
I understand and very sympathetic to Jessi and Lily, but it just feels like they are trying to put the blame of the situation onto Joshua just because he was trying to take accountability for stuff he had done and placate Johnny's anger. It really feels like they are using all of that as an excuse for why they shouldn't take accountability.
Totally agree, its not much bigger than "We should never had had Johnny on the show".
They just shouldn't platform anyone making allegations unless they are willing to hear the other side under equal conditions
Something they are not willing to do. Which is fine!!!
If they are just a podcast thats ok but they need to stay away from situations that ethically require a higher journalistic standard and I think they dropped the ball here in how they claim they are going to handle things like this going forward.
I dont want to pile on anymore backlash but there are some rough takes in this video and I hope they can drop the defenses and listen to constructive criticism
You said it better than I could. It came across as a lot of excuses, they would’ve been better off saying “we lack the time/resources/skills to give this the in depth attention it deserves, so in the future we will not be covering topics with this level of seriousness and ramifications to them.”
Adam platformed Johnny and didn’t have Josh on. H3 platformed Johnny and didn’t have Josh on. No one, including Adam, spoke up until Swoop’s documentary. You should have that same criticism for everyone then.
@@MissGrimm Except you're asking victims to come out against someone who claims they are also one. He has explained why he couldn't. Shut up.
@@MissGrimmAdam avoided platforming Johnny about Joshua because he didn't trust him. He included him as a Colleen victim, but he drew that line despite Johnny asking him to share.
I think the issue is that Adam knew the truth long before anyone else did, so that allowed him to pay closer attention to the actual verbiage Josh was using. However, I think Lily, Jessie, myself, and others saw Josh’s apology as an apology for Johnny’s accusations, not Johnny’s feelings on the matter (because truthfully you can do that privately and it would likely mean more, especially since Josh no longer is a public figure). Knowing the truth now, I completely agree that his statements seem to validate feelings more than show an admission of guilt. I think Josh coming out and publicly making those statements did him way more harm than good
I saw someone comment here that that's why lawyers always advise against their clients apologizing - because an apology can be taken as an admission of guilt. I could totally see how Jessie and Lily saw Josh's multiple statements that way.
I disagree. Johnnys h3 interview was weird, he skirted around giving concrete examples (unlike the other victims) and Josh’s apology to me read that he feels bad that he treated Johnny like an adult and when he felt smothered he didn’t communicate clearly. I think Josh’s good intentions were actually more wholesome than this podcast… and he was quick to apologize for his naivety. I don’t see accountability here… I see only excuses.
@@LeeannG I’m not commenting on the quality of the apology to Josh. I don’t doubt Josh’s intentions were good (lol, obviously), I just don’t think they did him any favors. Very much like Jessie and Lily, I misunderstood his tweets for admitting guilt before evidence of the contrary were presented by Swoop. You can take accountability for what you genuinely did while negating or emphasizing the pieces that are false, especially when the allegations are as life destroying as the ones Johnny was throwing out. I’m pretty sure even Ethan from H3 questioned how Josh handled his responses and Olivia had to give the same explanation Adam did. I understand this viewpoint of Jessie and Lily but I also understand what led them to their conclusion.
h3 interview was after lily and jessi's interview. when they put out their interview johnny's story had not had a million changes from podcast to podcast.
@@LeeannGLily and Jessi’s interview was the first one. Johnny contradictions where made clear as he went on with his videos, the H3 podcast, the Variety article, all of his tweets and even Swoop’s first interview of him. In neither of the interviews above Josh shared his side except for the statement he gave to DWKT and even Swoop said she wasn’t going to give Josh a platform until she was contacted by various victims of Johnny and found new information on reddit. Everyone believed Johnny even Swoop, nobody questioned him, except Swoop.
The key difference between the heat H3 and DWKT is getting is that H3 did not double down when the truth came out, they just processed it on the show and Ethan went out of his way to ensure that they corrected the record as much as possible because he knew how this could affect Josh. On the other hand, DWKT have acted like they've been backed into a corner and that they were justified in their previous actions, with an apology that comes with a huge caveat. I truly think that if they just released a 5min version of the apology where they said they felt they had reason to behave as they did at the time, but they are now sorry, all this would've been done and dusted. The immense backlash is because of how adamantly they are determined to turn the blame on Josh for how they acted, while also revealing how little critical thinking they've actually applied i.e. Josh did not confess to any grooming, only acknowledged the pain caused, and even in retrospect, it makes sense that he took the accountability that he did because he could not have anticipated how much that was only going to fuel Johnny's attack. At the end of the day, the 1hr video was just not necessary, people understood their situation, even if they're acting like people were coming at them so intensely. In reality, the backlash is now 90% in response to their defensiveness.
Well said. That's exactly how I feel.
A lot of their back pedal feels like they're trying to acknowledge Johnny's dishonesty while also trying really hard to excuse their bias against Josh.
It's so disappointing because I thought Jessi and Lily were better than this. This is in reference to how they're treating Josh and how they're trying to justify their bad behavior.
I just dont understand how Jessie said that intent matters more than actions then doesnt unserstand why Josh validated Johnnys feelings online. Josh is not in a public sphere anymore, he didnt want to respond. But he was accusing him of crimes.... so he had to.
There was no need to go over everh point that was true and devalue josh and upkift johnny all over again. Such a strange take to make excuses the whole time.
I LOVE these girls too, never miss an episode, but they wee just so on the defense. They didnt need to be. Everyone was fooled by jphnny. All they needed to do was appoligise and correct the record. They didnt need to defend themselves at all. Ofcorse we all want to beleive victims. Thats just normal!
Lawyers will say NEVER apologize because it’s often taken as an admission of guilt in court.
Except in Canada 😂
Even with car accidents you’re not supposed to say sorry. I did that before😅
Then understand, that’s why they have bad backlash.
Exactly. If you don't overtly say what you are apologizing for it can and will be used against you as a blanket statement.
@@Kloves818Josh did say what he was apologising for he never once apologised for grooming him or being a fkn gateway groomer to a grown man who chose to work for Colleen
I think by far the worst part was how they handled the aftermath and the initial response from josh. It was overly dismissive and it made it seem like they really shouldn’t have a platform at all to allow anyone on it if they are going to handle it this poorly when they got push back from someone they were speaking on. People tweeting to me isn’t the same same as hosting a podcast episode and then taking zero responsibility for the narrative especially when when josh began to reach out to them.
My biggest takeaway is that 9/10 times a sincere apology is not the apology we want to hear. Being sincere requires honesty and honesty isn’t what people want in an apology, they want to be completely validated and most of the time honesty won’t give you that kind of feeling. Arguing about whether they should have interviewed Josh or not is a moot point, we all know things now and maybe going forward we can support a victim without vilifying the other person bc sadly this stuff happens, albeit not very often. Johnny invited himself onto their show and I can understand they weren’t fully prepared and I relate to that, I make mistakes even when my heart is in the right place.
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Agreed 100%, I think their apology was totally genuine and honest and explained every step they took. People are still furious about it which leads me to believe they were never going to be happy with whatever DWKT said.
Exactly! And I personally respect them a whole lot more for not making a blanket apology themselves and for pushing back on the false narratives being perpetuated about them from this. They owned where they went wrong, but they're not lying down to just be flayed by haters on the internet. That is harder to do, but so necessary.
exactly. people are 100% misconstruing their explaining themselves, with them making excuses. no where in the video did they ever make excuses for themself, but they were 100% explaining their thought process behind it and WHY they did what they did. and theres nothing wrong with that
100%. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can say all day long they should have done this or that- but it is the past. All they could have done is either throughly explain themselves and give their reasoning for why they did what they did, what they learned from it, and what their intentions were or just say sorry and people would have had just as much issue with that. I do not believe it was their responsibility to track down every allegation or speak to every person involved. I believe the nature of their podcast is to explain things on a certain topic with the understanding that they have. It is not their responsibility to give everyone the total and complete understanding, people need to take their own responsibility In saying that they came to a conclusion without researching something for themselves. With a topic like this or really anything it is each person’s individual responsibility to do their own digging and come to their own conclusions of what is the truth.
just a small note from when jessi was talking about mustering your strength to speak your truth- Josh did. He tried many times and was attacked off the internet. So there wasnt this space really for him to do that until now. And having gone through that, his apologies might have come from a place of fear from that happening so he didnt want to rock the boat too much. "What kind of hate will i get if i do defend myself publicly?" kind of thing. If i apologise maybe i can slowly start to speak out if i apologise to someone i have hurt.
I cant speak too much because johnny just read the wrong way for me from the start. His words spoke too much like the girls i knew who would read other girls DM's from warped tour and take their stories and run. He would speak not like a victim but someone who had something behind the smile kind of feeling. It struck me the wrong way. So i was willing to listen to joshuas side pretty easily. But i can see how difficult the situation is to wade through.
This right here. Swoop is basically the only person who has given him the space.
To me Josh’s apology sounded a lot like ones I hear coming out of people who’ve been through AA. It prioritized Acknowledging hurt someone may have felt over dissecting the particulars of the event.
to me Joshua's apologies read as "sorry I didn't handle a parasocial relationship as well as I could" not "sorry I gr**med you", I don't like how they say that Josh "admited" to it when that's really not the case like Swoops video clarifies that.
edit after finishing the video:
a) they deflect and even blame Josh a bit too much.
b) I do believe they had good intentions.
c) still don't think they deserve the level of backlash they're getting, but they clearly need to learn and grow before they tackle a topic this serious again.
I love that you can give credit where it’s due but also call people out when it’s necessary. It shows fair you are. Yes you have biases, we all do, but you are fair with everyone. ❤
Really fucked up that Johnny was the one lying but people are basically blaming Jessi and Lily for not being supersleuths. Blame the dupers not the duped
He had proof that Johnny was lying. There's no super sleuthing needed.
also like crazy misogyny showing because I don't see h3 getting this amount of backlash as if his platform isn't bigger than theirs.
Many of us called Johnny out since July. People just didn’t listen to the real victims.
@@xKomadorithe difference is h3 dedicated a whole episode to correct the record. They didn't put out a statement to apologize to their audience and just happen to leave Josh out of it. The person who did the segment (Olivia) is a woman so the misogyny assumption isn't accurate.
@@xKomadorialso Josh also reached out to H3 like the girls, and H3 was open to having him on even before swoops part 3 - he was already in contact with Olivia I believe. I think that’s the part that people are upset about. Believe victims, but then there is room for verification.
Lilly's eye rolling was seriously unprofessional. Lilly says "we didn't fact check every single claim"... they didn't fact check a single claim. Spread a lot disinformation.
I was so deeply disappointed in this video. It was just deflection after deflection and they took a long time to “apologize” to Josh at all. I had to stop watching this video when it came out because it was so frustrating. I wanted to wait to see Adam recap it and Adam seems to have the same reaction I did. I wanted them to address this so much better. It’s definitely disheartening and I think they owe Josh a better apology.
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I think Lily/Jessie and Josh have always had a bad back and forth, souring him to them. Mix that with Josh being defensive because of the seriousness and consequences of the situation - you are gonna get high tension and not so grounded responses. I don’t think Lily and Jessie had bad intentions. I think they got manipulated by Johnny. I do think they need to give some grace to Josh though, and he to them (which luckily he seems to have in his response to their video). But yeah some of their explanations in their apology video rubbed me the wrong way. But it’s a tricky situation and I do love them. It’s just some of it felt victim blamy and defensive.
That with the fact that it is 100% weird to use the word “horny” around a child or inviting children to your hotel room… As much as i see Adam and Josh’s point, he did literally admit guilty to too many things. It did not read like that to Adam because Adam had his suspicions which actually makes me wonder why he is even acting like this now when he is guilty of not platforming him and pressing Johnny either prior to swoop’s video either.
I love Jesse but the way they attack and blame a person based off of someone's story and not giving the other person a chance or even hearing them out is what really irks me. They did that on the Jonah Hill topic what really rubbed me the wrong way. Their attitudes seem too arrogant sometimes.
I think this is the most nuanced, balanced criticism of DWKT that I have seen, and that's amazing considering it's coming from someone directly harmed by Johnny. All the props for you, Adam.
(I'm still watching. Just my thoughts going in.) They don't deserve the hate they're getting. They fucked up by shutting Joshua out off the bat when Johnny made accusations. They know it. People need to step back and let them answer for it. They weren't the only ones who got duped by Johnny.
No they didn’t , but they also didn’t handle it well. I think if they’d only apologized without getting so defensive, people would have been more lenient
@@FabiolaRVela Now that I've watched the whole thing, I agree. They did a fair bit of deflecting. I feel like you can give reasons for your actions without trying to explain them away. A simple "here's what we did and why we did it, here's why we now know it was wrong, we're sorry, here's how were going to handle it going forward" would have been fine. But all the extra time they spent on their video just gave them more room for unproductive dialogue, imo.
@@wideride8320EXACTLY THIS.
I’m going be honest, I am a fan of Jessie but I don’t like how they responded to this…. How can you say that it was Joshua’s responsibility to put out a statement to prove his innocence when you rolled your eyes at the statement, he attempted to give you. You demanded that he have evidence to prove his case that things didn’t happen, but that same logic would never be applied to somebody who is a victim. Also, I think it’s ridiculous of them to not acknowledge the fact that if Josh had said that Johnny was lying, instead of acknowledging his feelings and apologizing that people would have came for him, even harder, and told him that he was trying to silence and disrespect a victim. Honestly, this whole statement feels kind of off to me and I wish they would just say that they’re not going to do interviews anymore especially on topics like this where you can’t be mature enough to actually listen to all sides. Because at the end of the day, everybody has a right to face the person who is accusing them of a action, and or crime. Honestly, it just feels like they wanted to cover their tracks.
Yep, they’re deferring blame. It’s telling.
@@mads597i completely agree with you
They were so warm and welcoming to Johnny. Ofc it’s gonna hurt when you find out that your kindness was taken advantage of.
An apology is not an apology when you blame the person you're apologising to for what you're apologising for. This was a really bad response. Johnny lying is not their fault but this response is. They took time to respond and this is what they came up with? Josh is a better person than me for sure.
they did apologized, for their attitud and beliving johnny, they just explained why they believed him and people are taking that as excuses, they are just explaining their train of thoughts at that moment.
@@maluvidazocar2895 which in turn undoes the whole apology. Like I said, it’s not an apology when you blame the person you’re apologising to for what you’re apologising for. It comes across gaslighty, manipulative, and victim blamey.
Yes, they brought up the things from Josh many times, using it as an excuse. They need to slow down, back up, and think about what they are doing.
@@sapphyrewairepo3462explaining your thought process behind bad actions does not negate the apology. Explaining why they did something bad helps people understand why they fucked up in the first place and helps them address the wrong choices they made, thus helps them not make bad choices in the future.
@@bryannamohan9964 sure but not when you are literally blaming the victim. That’s messed up
I feel like they could've addressed Josh SOMEHOW in their placeholder statement, and then just elaborated on it in the video. I think it's reasonable for him to be mad when it seemed like he'd been completely ignored in their statement after being like... slandered in their interview with Johnny
I think people are looking back at this with new information - and that’s unfair to Jessi & Lily.
If they had Josh on they would have been bashed for “giving a platform to a groomer”, and “not believing victims”.
There was no evidence but there was overwhelming attention and support for Johnny.
It's kinda unfortunate that their video is actually a huge disservice to them. Honestly with just the facts, it's easy to be like "oh yea i mean that's a fucked up situation, i can understand, they got manipulated", but then you watch them shit talking josh for an hour to seemingly try to prove they did nothing wrong and somehow still try to make allegations about josh using info without any context. The way they, especially Lily, look annoyed and vexed and NOT AT ALL sorry about how they treated joshua just negates everything that was said before omg. Even when they make fair points, it just gets overshadowed by how weirdly vindictive they're acting right now honestly. They don't deserve all that hate but oh dear that video is NOT helping them. Throwing their fans at a smaller creator because they were apparently "very critical" (made very mild tweets covering their feelings of the situation) is also so weird..... putting the full @ and tweets there with the "but don't attack them" is just so....yea anyway not gonna go listen to that podcast anytime soon lmao
This is what I think. Their response was worst than their actual mistake lol
I agree. Their initial mistake was unintentional and somewhat understandable given everybody’s history and current information. It’s that human instinct to want to explain why you made the mistake that really got them. You can’t give into this urge. Not in a situation like this.
Man, Adam is so emotionally intelligent. In many videos I’ve watched of his, his opinions and thoughts are fair and concise. He really thinks for himself and that’s very admirable. I’m 25 and I don’t have this emotional intelligence. One day I want to be more on this level.
Hi Adam! Just so you know I support you and believe you have every right to keep talking about this as long as you want and need. You didn't deserve any of this sh1t. Lots of hugs ❤
I really hate how they kept using “it’s a FOUR hour video!!!” as an excuse. Maybe it’s because I’m working a 9-5 job in the office so I can listen to it twice in the background at work and then third time in the time I have after work 🤷♀️
1:08:33 Novisty speaking the truth. Even though it's a podcast (a place where opinions thrive), doesn't mean we have to look at certain situations with rose-coloured glasses. In the future, either hear out or discuss both sides with the rose-coloured glasses off, or don't talk about it at all. All I hope is that this experience allows Jessi and Lily to do just that.
Listen, I love Jessi and Lily. But I don’t agree with their response at all. I don’t believe that they’re doing it for Johnny’s sake but they are inadvertently defending a lot of what he said on their podcast in an effort to explain away their mistake.