Look, as far as *I'm* concerned (in other words, I'm only speaking for myself), John could literally commit Call Of Duty level war crimes and I'd still forgive him. But only on the condition that he eats more Caribbean food. Otherwise, he's going to get tortured worse than Griffith.
I think Jon and Woolie have a special kind of friendship. I think we all want that friend who is excited to talk to you about literally anything you're interested in.
Idea for John/Woolie/editor/whoever reads this: For the Pantheon of greatness, could we have each entry coloured to correspond to who recommended it? Since John has a blue border, his recommendations could be blue, and Woolie's border is orange, so his recommendations are orange. It'll be a nice way to remember who submitted what, and also a cool way to visualise the "winner" of the table as it stands.
I can believe the claims that "the Shibuya Incident isn't what could have been". I loved the Mahoraga vs Sukuna episode, but the Blu-Ray adding entire minutes of fight scene to that episode that were unfinished at time of release really made me realize what a clusterfuck was happening behind the scenes. Especially with how the legendary animator Hakuyu Go (who worked on that episode) is apparently donezo with Mappa after what went down.
Those reveals on Twitter absolutely sent me. They were so many little additions that made THE BIGGEST difference in making that fight in particular easier to follow. And the fight is supposed to be chaos but it’s crazy that it, and by proxy the entire season, could have been that much easier to digest had the animators had more time. Combine that with some of the issues the manga had, and it really does feel like JJK is cursed a little bit
I really wanna thank John for doing the due dilligence of bringing up the awful working environment for the production of JJK season 2. Its great to have someone with your reach to discuss the ugly side of media with the seriousness you do.
Woolie more or less bouncing off of Twin Peaks is very unsurprising to me. Woolie is someone who is VERY much focused on figuring things out and trying to know what’s going on at all times, which basically makes David Lynch his antithesis as a human.
Watching the friendship era is like reading the golden age arc, because its so beautiful to watch these people open up to each other, and you just know that one little change in outlook is going to lead to horrible events
I could write a full essay on how using the magical realism within the world of twin peaks to create an endearing and silly scene that also shortens the long crime procedural process of an investigation of all of the POIs is so genius
Great podcast so far, but I think Mascara Snake-kuns mic might be off 'cause I'm not hearing him AT ALL, and that's a problem because he's my favorite host 🐍
I feel like John really isn't doing himself any favors on the "I'm not the Villain of this podcast!" front when he's rocking Malevolent Shrine on the thumbnail
I have no idea how Woolie comes to the conclusion that Sukuna's message to Jogo was "Sucks to suck" it is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT. He steps into his death dream and goes "You were cool, actually. Good try."
@@wielderofthetriforce1934 There's nothing to interpret! Sukuna shows up and literally gases him up, he says NOTHING but compliments! He talks about how even in the Heian era Jogo would have been considered among the top Curses, that he had fun fighting him, and that he was strong! All with a completely straight face! It's one of the defining moments of Sukuna's character. It's the thing that makes him more than a mustach twirling villain, his positive trait is that he recognizes and acknowledges the virtues of others! I think we need to stop saying Woolie "Misinterprets" things. He doesn't. He just forgets how they happened and then makes up a story in his head that he thinks more or less sounds right.
@@fell5514 i guess he thought Sukuna might have been facetious, because of how much of a bastard he is. Not saying Woolie isn't still wrong in thinking that tho, with how Sukuna doesn't, at any point, pull any joke or trick during that moment to ruin Jogo's moment during death. He does that moment complete straight, giving the audience no reason to expect him to be disingenuous in the praise he was giving.
Uhh... I'm guessing you guys are just 'remembering' what happened and not watching what happened? Remember that whole part where he shows up and says "Oh you wanted to be human? Or just have their position or whatever? That's pretty stupid. You should have burned everything to the ground to get to Gojo. You weren't hungry enough to get what you wanted." That's how he *opens* that scene. I guess none of you remember that because you all seem to agree he didn't say it, but you can literally type that into TH-cam and find the scene yourselves. It has to be easier to find that clip and watch it than write an essay about what you vaguely remember from the show.
3:07:37 Exactly! This is why the Choso fight is my favorite in the entire season, I just enjoy a lot more a well choreographed and directed fight scene than the spectacle of laser beams and shit being thrown around. Similar reason why my favorite fight of Mob Psycho 100 is the one with the Blind Teleporter Guy
Twin Peaks is the type of show that I am not surprised when people say they dont like it, but I do feel SORRY for them because BOY are you missing on the wildest ride ever. I didnt like it at all at first but eventually I forced myself to sit down and watch the entire first season and I am so glad I did. I only watched it some years ago and yet I feel a sense of nostalgia for it like I watched it back when it originally aired. My personal recommendation is to watch the first season, then power through season 2 with the knowledge that most of it wasnt written by Lynch, then go watch Fire Walk With Me regardless if you liked the TV show or not, and then finally go watch season 3 to experience pure Lynch kino. And if you want to know how really insane is what you experienced, you can go watch or read all the theories about Twin Peaks that people came up with.
As huge and impressive as the Shibuya Incident was, the pacing always felt to me like we missed an arc between what came before and Shibuya itself. I'm probably in the minority, but it kinda raced to clear the board of folks we could have used more time with.
@@pandagamer-hg5be As much as Akutami is a genuine talent, the series would have been better served by actually writing his characters with arcs rather than getting lost in the minutia of yet another power system.
Yeah it suffers from the same problem a lot of modern anime does in that it kind of seemed to want to race to the finish line. It could easily have ran as long as Naruto did or longer and still have had no filler. Think Shibuya would have been even more mind blowing if a few of the characters were more established
@@-Fraud Oh absolutely, but him going "Oh yeah I know what's going on here." when I know for a fact that he can't and then makes up an explanation is very funny, especially by it supposing that Sukuna would ever care about protecting Yuji in any situation
It’s even more frustrating because there’s literally nothing to speculate about. It’s outright confirmed by the end of the season but I guess either they both weren’t paying attention or just completely forgot
@@31Moth13 I don't expect him to be correct until Mama Kenjaku is shown, but I also think going "Yeah here's what happened" when there's no possibility he could've known and then getting it wrong is just funny
Man they got into so much with the Shibuya Incident but barely touched on Nanami and Kugisaki's deaths, especially with how they lead into Todo's magnificent entrance.
So unbelievably hyped that you guys are talking Twin Peaks this time! I literally finished watching the show for the first time like 2 months ago. I absolutely loved it. One of the best shows I’ve ever watched. So ready for this!
In Dale Cooper's defense, literally the entire world was like YOWZA seeing Sherilyn Fenn as Audrey. It helped that she was actually like 24-25 when they were filming.
In Dale Cooper's defense, the network tampered with her age and he was caught in a hold over plot line until his actor dragged him out because he thought it was inappropriate. It literally took the higher powers to pull him out of that metaphorical death spiral, not his fault.
I think one aspect of Twin Peaks that sadly often gets overshadowed by Lynch is Mark Frost. One the main reasons Twin Peaks doesn't feel as weird and far out as other Lynch works is partly his influence in both the production and the screen writing. Most of the parts of the show that aren't traditionally "Lynchian" are most likely his contribution and so it's a bit sad to barely hear him mentioned in discussions about the show and how most people assume this is just Lynch being held back or underdeveloped
Also I think people tend to play up Lynch's eccentricities as a writer/director. He definitely prefers the weird and abstract but he's also perfectly capable of writing a more straightforward grounded story.
Conversely the parts of season 2 that people issue caveats about are at least as much a product of Frost’s absence on account of/focus on other projects as Lynch’s. I mean, for one thing that’s the season where Lynch starts showing up as an onscreen character, you’d presume neither of them exactly checked all the way out!
1:47:35 This is almost exactly why I hate the term "overrated". I'd qualify it with: overrated is trying to impose the idea that how people feel about something is objectively invalid instead of a subjective experience, to make the person exclaiming "overrated" feel like they're objectively right instead of just a subjective take that only goes as far as themselves. It's different than saying, "It's shit." because that means you hate it, and the subjectivity that it's your opinion is implied. "Overrated" implies other people are stupid.
@@joedatiusending s2 at the series peak vs ending the manga with a kinda middling conclusion (I liked the end more than most but it was still nothing spectacular especially compared to everything before it and ESPECIALLY compared to Shibuya)
Love JJK but I also love in the comments when the major fans get the whiteboard out to explain why everything perfectly makes sense and you should’ve seen this coming or you’ll see it coming 20 chapters down.
An English lit professor I had described a character type as a "Vera" in a way that really aligned with Audrey I found. Smarter than they appear, more aware of things at their age compared to others, and really capable of knowing how they can manipulate people. Audrey's characterization shifts with the episodes thanks to that duck in and out with David's involvement in the show, but especially in that pilot episode where Audrey just fouls up her dad's business with fantastic tact, class-A "Vera" move.
Sonething I really love about Twin Peaks that differentiates it even more from the TV shows at the time is it was shot on location. It gives so many more scenes so much more depth than they would have on a set. They're able to do so many more interesting camera angles and lighting than they would be able to if there weren't a 4th wall there.
I looked at the runtime for the first time when John reminded us this was the first triple-topic at 6:06 and holy crap, 4 hours of Versus Wolves??? We're eating good today folks
First time I disagree THISSSS HARD with a ranking from John and Woolie. The shibuya incident is great, I love it, believe me, but it does NOT beat the classic gaming masterpiece that is Shigesato Itoi's Earthbound. Shibuya Incident is an arc, Earthbound is a whole adventure, THE VIBES MAN THE VIBEEEEES. I'm calling recency bias on this one.
Man, as a kid who grew up in Toronto - where there's tons of Caribbean and West Indian Restaurants to choose from - I cannot stress enough how good West Indian Food is! If you like meat and broth served on rice (with a little big of a kick), do yourself a favor and try it out! It's Fantastic!
I think that Jon should still check out Dune Part II out of his own volition. I think he would at least appreciate the historical context of it/just getting how much pop culture is derivative of the original Dune story and how much further Dune pushes its protagonists’ actions compared to its derivatives.
1:40:15 I don't think this is Lynch hating his audience per say... more or less it was like, "OK, you think this murder mystery is fun and quirky but here's the thing; brutal murder IS brutal murder!" David was like; "here is what happened exactly. Do you feel better about what you've seen? Because this is the truth." FWWM is grim! Dark! And will hurt to watch; but it all makes sense... especially if you have seen the full series.
If I were to describe my notion of The Essential David Lynch Thing it’d be asking “How could you do this? Why would you do this?” - about evil acts but also lots of other human behavior - and not wanting to just dismiss it as inexplicable, feeling like if you burrowed down and earnestly pulled away as many veils as possible you’d arrive at true knowledge of some kind, and turning up a hell of a lot of compelling new datapoints in the process, but still feeling some sort of fundamental lack or mystery no matter how far you go. He achieves some world-record Vibes over the course of this process but I think every minute of it, however cute or nightmarish, is an attempt to document that essential inscrutability and our obligation to wade into it.
One common and understandable mistake ppl make is thinking Sakuna did something to Choso. In that Scene, Sakuna is just expressing dissapointed that Yuji lost the fight. Yuji is actually legit one of Choso's brothers and Choso can feel when his brothers are on the brink of death. That's why he went all loopy because it's such a surprise that he would feel that way when he's about to kill yuji. Sakuna didn't do anything he was just watching Yuji die and was like bruh
1:02:33 Fun fact - Alex Hirsch originally wanted David Lynch to voice Bill Cypher. When they couldn't get him, Alex just did a David Lynch impression for the character voice.
Sad that Woolie already read Chainsaw Man before this podcast, the only person he ever gave his thoughts to was Pat who really didn't know anything about it. I guess there's always part 2 whenever it finishes if Woolie isn't keeping up with it.
3:11:03 ok this is just wrong, Choso says that he can feel anything that happens to his blood related brothers so when Yuji near dies he senses him almost dying making him realize that Yuji is actually his brother, the memories don't have anything to do with sukuna it's literally just to visualize Choso seeing yuji alongside all of his siblings
Common misconception. When the manga dropped and even when the season was new people were still confused about all that. It took several more volumes before the twist stuck for a lot of people.
@@matehiqu9905 That's valid but the issue is that it's not a spoiler. You're supposed to take what Choso says at face value, the author just did a really bad job presenting it and opened the door to alternative explanations.
My favorite memory from video games as a kid was my mom coming by while my brother and I were playing Tenkaichi and she saw me lose a character to Hercule and made fun of me for it cause she knew Hercule from just seeing him randomly sometimes when we would watch DBZ
Yuji vs Mahito is probably my favorite fight in the whole series, including what’s not animated yet. It’s just got everything, the choreography, the loss, Todo, everything is firing on all cylinders.
Vibes are nice. Certainly part of Twin Peaks appeal. But they are also the seasoning. Seasoning needs to be applied to something. I just want to speak to one element of Twin Peaks, on behalf of one point of view. Not telling the audience anything? That's a good, fun, worthwhile thing. See there's something about a creator making something, handing it to the audience and going, hey, I promise there's an internal logic and through line here. Make of it what you will. Also I will never, ever, confirm or deny if you're "right or wrong" about any of it so long as I live. That's fun! That's engaging! You the audience get to play detective, get to take all the pieces and craft your own world view. That's super cool and worthwhile. At least that's a part of why I love Twin Peaks. And David Lynch in general. Oh, and yeah, insert obligatory, something something, Fromsoftware world building. Because that's exactly it too. Don't tell me. Show me the world, I'll figure it out myself. I don't care if I'm "right or wrong".
I wish I did, but I know the animation is at least half the fun, so I'll happily tank the spoilers. ...Again, because I've already seen stuff about the Shibuya Incident.
I love Dale Cooper's techniques like the rock throwing. It reminds me of the Dirk Gently character from Douglas Adams' books (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency and The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul). A private investigator who investigates based on the interconnectedness of all things. In one of the books you learn that his method of navigation when driving is to just pick another car and follow it, trusting that while it may not lead him to where he intends to go, it will lead him to where he needs to be.
So the less Lynchian aspects of Twin Peaks is thanks to Mark Frost, the writer. He and Lynch collaborated in a heart-brain kind of way of writing the story.
Choso's memory shenanigans were explained in series. They do not have to do with Sukuna. Choso can feel his connection to his brothers, especially when they die. He said in one of the final episodes he could feel that same connection as Yuji was about to be killed by him. This lead him to believe that they must be related by blood
I think what they missed is that Sukuna DOESN'T CARE if Yuji dies or not, he would let him die t the bathroom for being so weak as deserved. For him Yuji is a fun pas time until what ever he is plotting (didn't read the manga so no spoilers) happens. Torturing Yuji and trying to make him break while Sukuna and other demons mock that silly human is entertainment as someone messing with ants to get a kick. So far Sukuna has no empathy towards humans (at best he is interested in Megumi for some unknown reason) and the only one he had ANY respect so far was Jogo for, while silly in his way to go for his ideals, actually putting a good fight to the point Sakuna actually praises and acknowledges him as strong before passing on (don't get why Woolie thought the exact opposite of what happened there).
2:43:29 THANK YOU OH MY GOD I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY We have _Gojo Satoru_ , who's best friend is _Geto Suguru_ (two characters that have the same first and last letter of their first and last NAME), who taught _Yuta and Yuji_ ; the latter of which is friends with _Todo_ and 'brother' of _Choso_ and the former a friend of _Toge_ , who previously fought a guy named _Jogo_ , having a flashback to when he fought _Toji_ .
Thought I'd have another week or so before this episode came out so I had to blast through the Shibuya Incident in a couple days, made it an awesome ride. Now to get some Carribean food delivered while I watch this.
Hearing Woolie list off cool Shibuya stuff after reading the manga is a sad experience. Cause with everything cool that happens im like "yeah that goes nowhere" "yeah that was just rule of cool and didnt mean anything"
@@joedatius Difference is when Dragonball does rule of cool it's not presenting it as a mystery box or potential plot thread. Sukuna's Open Furnace being a "well known technique" for an example in the video
One interesting thing about Mahoraga is its theorized that people in the Zenin clan like Toji, could probably help Ten-Shadow Users subjugate Mahoraga because he wouldn't "count" as being a part of the Ritual as he doesn't have any cursed energy. But because the Zenin's constantly ostracize people like Toji this never materializes.
Hey Versus Wolves. I just wanted to say thank you. Its been a really rough month but through the power of anime, friendship, spite, and *legal and safe amounts of mind altering substances*, your podcast helped me get my depressed body out of bed on more than on occasion. But also now i have thoughts on twin peaks and im annoying everyone. But on the plus side an afro Carribean place opened up within walking distance and the roti is life changing.
Shocked to see Jon bring up Re:Zero again for that fun little comparison about things people find overrated. I do still think what the story is actually about would be completely up his alley (it's probably one of the greatest stories of empathy, depression, and learning how to love yourself and others out there period.) but it's fair to be turned off before you get to that point or cus of other little things/personal tastes. These are still great as ever tho, friendship era is peak c:
I adore Re:Zero but I also have accepted that if someone bounces off of it that there's nothing anyone can say or do that will change thier mind. But that's ok since it's still able to reach those that are actually in need of its message.
@@PredictableEnigma Its one of those shows that you either hit or miss with. It really doesn't help that the main character is built to specifically shoot a kind of person in the face with "YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE" then *reload* and fire again with "AND YOU COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU TRIED"
I think Re:Zero has some AMAZING character moments, like Rem's confession or Bea's S2 library scene, and I love it for those. But it also makes you slog through things like the whale fight or try to figure out WTF is happening with the plot in S2, which felt like it lacked half the explanations needed for it to be cohesive. Also, did not like at all how they put one of its best characters in ice for all S2. Seems like they don't know how to keep the stakes high with her power around. I would not blame anyone for bouncing off for not feeling the Isekai themes or getting bored during the low points.
3:10:50 I’m an anime only guy but my theory on the false memory thing is that combined with the fact we know the main villain in control of geto’s body is a body swapper and something is up with yuji’s parents so maybe that villain is literally him and the blood dude’s dad and they are related through him
Well, for the first time in my listening of this podcast im going to be skipping a section. I wanted to watch Twin Peaks for the longest time, and this bookclub thing was an excellent motivator to finally do so. Sadly, this month was buisy and I couldn't quite do it. So, until such time as I have finished Twin Peaks, I'll skip that section! See you fine gents next month!
Though to be clear, I will listen to the rest of it now. Need to get some Caribbean food too. Not sure how good the Caribbean is in Alaska but I will find out ...
Ngl being Caribbean and seeing our food reduced to like 5 Jamaican dishes (if I'm generous enough to count those "patties" as actual patties lol) and put as low as #10 while a Jamaican/Grenadan offers no argument otherwise feels like a hate crime lmao
I am finally watching the movie and Season 2 of JJK before listening to the podcast. I just watched episode 43 and I am absolutely devastated and not ok.
Sherlock vs Moriarty in that RDJ movie does something similar 3:19:00 where sherlock is analyzing the fight and Moriarty as his equal basically goes, "Ok now here is my turn predicting the fight"
I've always wondered how Twin Peaks, the Shibuya Incident, and Caribbean food stack up against each other. Glad someone finally hashed this out.
"Look, I'm gonna get more Caribbean food, I'm not fucking playing Policenauts again" © golden quotes of Versus Wolves
Look, as far as *I'm* concerned (in other words, I'm only speaking for myself), John could literally commit Call Of Duty level war crimes and I'd still forgive him. But only on the condition that he eats more Caribbean food. Otherwise, he's going to get tortured worse than Griffith.
@@antonhanna2423May his name be forgotten
@@StanNotSoSaint Amen to that, no questions asked. Casca deserved better than that, even by dark fantasy standards.
In some ways the friendship arc is infinitely more stressful than we started out with, because now we have something to lose.
All eras come to an end and every tine they call it the "Friendship era" it makes me nervous
when Woolie called Gurenn Lagann contemporary, i did an audible chuckle, then looked at the 60 year old man in the mirror.
Oh buddy. Wake up. We're old.
I think Jon and Woolie have a special kind of friendship. I think we all want that friend who is excited to talk to you about literally anything you're interested in.
The type of friendship where a warm embrace is accompanied by knives held firmly at each other's throats 😂
A brothership some might say
it's so strong it survived woolie making john play omikron and a dokopon.
Woolie to Jon/Jon to Woolie: YOU ARE MY SPECIAL!!
And also have the ability to ruin their months at any given point for any reason through just forcing them to play omikron
when Jon said he went to Ruby Tuesdays for Caribbean food, i was like "UUUMMM SIR!?"
Idea for John/Woolie/editor/whoever reads this: For the Pantheon of greatness, could we have each entry coloured to correspond to who recommended it? Since John has a blue border, his recommendations could be blue, and Woolie's border is orange, so his recommendations are orange. It'll be a nice way to remember who submitted what, and also a cool way to visualise the "winner" of the table as it stands.
I can believe the claims that "the Shibuya Incident isn't what could have been". I loved the Mahoraga vs Sukuna episode, but the Blu-Ray adding entire minutes of fight scene to that episode that were unfinished at time of release really made me realize what a clusterfuck was happening behind the scenes. Especially with how the legendary animator Hakuyu Go (who worked on that episode) is apparently donezo with Mappa after what went down.
Those reveals on Twitter absolutely sent me. They were so many little additions that made THE BIGGEST difference in making that fight in particular easier to follow. And the fight is supposed to be chaos but it’s crazy that it, and by proxy the entire season, could have been that much easier to digest had the animators had more time. Combine that with some of the issues the manga had, and it really does feel like JJK is cursed a little bit
@@mario98730 Would it be JJK if it's not, in some way or another, cursed?
The idea of someone asking if you "got" an Adam Sandler movie.
Only true cinephiles can grasp the deep message of Jack and Jill
to be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand adam sandler
My parents did not get Uncut Gems.
"Oh yeah, it was really about the vacation he went on to the place he shot the scenes"
@SilverZephyr09 to me that doesn't count cuz he was only casted in it. For it to count he has to write and/or direct it imo.
Some might call the friendship era a Golden Age.
This Griffith guy is really cool I hope he and guts are friends forever
Uh oh
We all know the behelit John has in his pocket.
@@solomon9655 isn't it right, Evil Mascara Snake-kun?
I am not some
Channeling all my mental pressure to have Woolie recommend that they BOTH catch up on Kill Six Billion Demons
I really wanna thank John for doing the due dilligence of bringing up the awful working environment for the production of JJK season 2. Its great to have someone with your reach to discuss the ugly side of media with the seriousness you do.
Woolie more or less bouncing off of Twin Peaks is very unsurprising to me. Woolie is someone who is VERY much focused on figuring things out and trying to know what’s going on at all times, which basically makes David Lynch his antithesis as a human.
No, that'd be David Cage
Watching the friendship era is like reading the golden age arc, because its so beautiful to watch these people open up to each other, and you just know that one little change in outlook is going to lead to horrible events
A little bummed they didn't mention Sukuna's "Stand proud. You're strong." to Jogo. Very humanizing little moment for him.
It's kinda difficult to humanize Mr. WHERE ARE THE WOMAN THE CHILDREN!???? 👹
@@Wulk Except the ending does and that's kinda the point of the series
I could write a full essay on how using the magical realism within the world of twin peaks to create an
endearing and silly scene that also shortens the long crime procedural process of an investigation of all of the POIs is so genius
It's so good because it's just straight-up telling the audience "pay attention to the weird doctor and Lou"
Great podcast so far, but I think Mascara Snake-kuns mic might be off 'cause I'm not hearing him AT ALL, and that's a problem because he's my favorite host 🐍
2:31:15 He's here! Our glorious Snake-Eyed King, after so long of being gone~ 👑 🐍
I hope John gets an accurate list during the next recording
@@typhonyx_was_taken yeah, like what the hell
Next episode Berserk is going to be Number 8, and Dokapon will be in the Throne of Heaven
I feel like John really isn't doing himself any favors on the "I'm not the Villain of this podcast!" front when he's rocking Malevolent Shrine on the thumbnail
He came in prepped to be the white haired bishie and he still chose violence
Domain Expansion: Playing the Heel
I have no idea how Woolie comes to the conclusion that Sukuna's message to Jogo was "Sucks to suck" it is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT. He steps into his death dream and goes "You were cool, actually. Good try."
Classic case of Woolie misinterpreting something. At least this time it didn’t hinder his enjoyment
@@wielderofthetriforce1934 There's nothing to interpret! Sukuna shows up and literally gases him up, he says NOTHING but compliments! He talks about how even in the Heian era Jogo would have been considered among the top Curses, that he had fun fighting him, and that he was strong! All with a completely straight face!
It's one of the defining moments of Sukuna's character. It's the thing that makes him more than a mustach twirling villain, his positive trait is that he recognizes and acknowledges the virtues of others!
I think we need to stop saying Woolie "Misinterprets" things. He doesn't. He just forgets how they happened and then makes up a story in his head that he thinks more or less sounds right.
@@fell5514 i guess he thought Sukuna might have been facetious, because of how much of a bastard he is.
Not saying Woolie isn't still wrong in thinking that tho, with how Sukuna doesn't, at any point, pull any joke or trick during that moment to ruin Jogo's moment during death. He does that moment complete straight, giving the audience no reason to expect him to be disingenuous in the praise he was giving.
Uhh... I'm guessing you guys are just 'remembering' what happened and not watching what happened? Remember that whole part where he shows up and says "Oh you wanted to be human? Or just have their position or whatever? That's pretty stupid. You should have burned everything to the ground to get to Gojo. You weren't hungry enough to get what you wanted." That's how he *opens* that scene. I guess none of you remember that because you all seem to agree he didn't say it, but you can literally type that into TH-cam and find the scene yourselves. It has to be easier to find that clip and watch it than write an essay about what you vaguely remember from the show.
@@SonicBoyster No? He said that BEFORE the death scene.
3:07:37 Exactly! This is why the Choso fight is my favorite in the entire season, I just enjoy a lot more a well choreographed and directed fight scene than the spectacle of laser beams and shit being thrown around. Similar reason why my favorite fight of Mob Psycho 100 is the one with the Blind Teleporter Guy
Twin Peaks is the type of show that I am not surprised when people say they dont like it, but I do feel SORRY for them because BOY are you missing on the wildest ride ever. I didnt like it at all at first but eventually I forced myself to sit down and watch the entire first season and I am so glad I did. I only watched it some years ago and yet I feel a sense of nostalgia for it like I watched it back when it originally aired.
My personal recommendation is to watch the first season, then power through season 2 with the knowledge that most of it wasnt written by Lynch, then go watch Fire Walk With Me regardless if you liked the TV show or not, and then finally go watch season 3 to experience pure Lynch kino. And if you want to know how really insane is what you experienced, you can go watch or read all the theories about Twin Peaks that people came up with.
Fun Fact: The composer for Twin Peaks, Angelo Badalamenti, was also the composer for Indigo Prophecy
infohazard
He also did A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and Christmas Vacation as well as a bunch of other Lynch projects.
As huge and impressive as the Shibuya Incident was, the pacing always felt to me like we missed an arc between what came before and Shibuya itself.
I'm probably in the minority, but it kinda raced to clear the board of folks we could have used more time with.
Which also applies to the rest of the series afterward IMO
@@pandagamer-hg5be As much as Akutami is a genuine talent, the series would have been better served by actually writing his characters with arcs rather than getting lost in the minutia of yet another power system.
Yeah it suffers from the same problem a lot of modern anime does in that it kind of seemed to want to race to the finish line. It could easily have ran as long as Naruto did or longer and still have had no filler. Think Shibuya would have been even more mind blowing if a few of the characters were more established
Watching Woolie speculate completely wrongly about why the Choso flashback happened is so funny
To be fair, it was unclear the episode it was shown but later it was explained lol
@@-Fraud Oh absolutely, but him going "Oh yeah I know what's going on here." when I know for a fact that he can't and then makes up an explanation is very funny, especially by it supposing that Sukuna would ever care about protecting Yuji in any situation
It’s even more frustrating because there’s literally nothing to speculate about. It’s outright confirmed by the end of the season but I guess either they both weren’t paying attention or just completely forgot
100% of the people reading/watching didn't get it correct because the actual answer is so out of left field.
@@31Moth13 I don't expect him to be correct until Mama Kenjaku is shown, but I also think going "Yeah here's what happened" when there's no possibility he could've known and then getting it wrong is just funny
Domain expansion: infinite content
The act of applause is an acclamation of the soul... and so i clap for this 4 hour peak.
Appreciate y'all for bringing up the animation industry woes 🧡
49:00 You've heard of chess boxing now get ready for DOKAPON JIU-JITSU!
Alongside dance boxing battle on the side
Man they got into so much with the Shibuya Incident but barely touched on Nanami and Kugisaki's deaths, especially with how they lead into Todo's magnificent entrance.
So unbelievably hyped that you guys are talking Twin Peaks this time! I literally finished watching the show for the first time like 2 months ago. I absolutely loved it. One of the best shows I’ve ever watched. So ready for this!
It truely is one of the greatest. LOST was the only thing that filled the Twin Peaks shaped hole in my heart
In Dale Cooper's defense, literally the entire world was like YOWZA seeing Sherilyn Fenn as Audrey.
It helped that she was actually like 24-25 when they were filming.
Yeah, and I feel like the authority and costuming of the FBI makes him seem older, but Kyle MacLachlan was like 29 when they started filming
In Dale Cooper's defense, the network tampered with her age and he was caught in a hold over plot line until his actor dragged him out because he thought it was inappropriate. It literally took the higher powers to pull him out of that metaphorical death spiral, not his fault.
These titles are some the greatest in all of TH-cam.
I think one aspect of Twin Peaks that sadly often gets overshadowed by Lynch is Mark Frost. One the main reasons Twin Peaks doesn't feel as weird and far out as other Lynch works is partly his influence in both the production and the screen writing. Most of the parts of the show that aren't traditionally "Lynchian" are most likely his contribution and so it's a bit sad to barely hear him mentioned in discussions about the show and how most people assume this is just Lynch being held back or underdeveloped
Also I think people tend to play up Lynch's eccentricities as a writer/director. He definitely prefers the weird and abstract but he's also perfectly capable of writing a more straightforward grounded story.
Conversely the parts of season 2 that people issue caveats about are at least as much a product of Frost’s absence on account of/focus on other projects as Lynch’s. I mean, for one thing that’s the season where Lynch starts showing up as an onscreen character, you’d presume neither of them exactly checked all the way out!
I thought John was doing a bit when he said Ruby Tuesdays lol
1:47:35 This is almost exactly why I hate the term "overrated". I'd qualify it with: overrated is trying to impose the idea that how people feel about something is objectively invalid instead of a subjective experience, to make the person exclaiming "overrated" feel like they're objectively right instead of just a subjective take that only goes as far as themselves.
It's different than saying, "It's shit." because that means you hate it, and the subjectivity that it's your opinion is implied. "Overrated" implies other people are stupid.
People who have just watched the 2nd JJK season and people who have just read the JJK ending truly live in two completely separate worlds of emotions.
how so?
@@joedatiusending s2 at the series peak vs ending the manga with a kinda middling conclusion (I liked the end more than most but it was still nothing spectacular especially compared to everything before it and ESPECIALLY compared to Shibuya)
Love JJK but I also love in the comments when the major fans get the whiteboard out to explain why everything perfectly makes sense and you should’ve seen this coming or you’ll see it coming 20 chapters down.
An English lit professor I had described a character type as a "Vera" in a way that really aligned with Audrey I found. Smarter than they appear, more aware of things at their age compared to others, and really capable of knowing how they can manipulate people. Audrey's characterization shifts with the episodes thanks to that duck in and out with David's involvement in the show, but especially in that pilot episode where Audrey just fouls up her dad's business with fantastic tact, class-A "Vera" move.
Sonething I really love about Twin Peaks that differentiates it even more from the TV shows at the time is it was shot on location. It gives so many more scenes so much more depth than they would have on a set. They're able to do so many more interesting camera angles and lighting than they would be able to if there weren't a 4th wall there.
I looked at the runtime for the first time when John reminded us this was the first triple-topic at 6:06 and holy crap, 4 hours of Versus Wolves??? We're eating good today folks
Foxmar I love you for your editing it to line up with the lip synch at 3:18:12.
First time I disagree THISSSS HARD with a ranking from John and Woolie. The shibuya incident is great, I love it, believe me, but it does NOT beat the classic gaming masterpiece that is Shigesato Itoi's Earthbound. Shibuya Incident is an arc, Earthbound is a whole adventure, THE VIBES MAN THE VIBEEEEES. I'm calling recency bias on this one.
None of this nerd weeb shit beats Caribbean food lmao
@Cwestlov that I can agree lmao
Man, as a kid who grew up in Toronto - where there's tons of Caribbean and West Indian Restaurants to choose from - I cannot stress enough how good West Indian Food is!
If you like meat and broth served on rice (with a little big of a kick), do yourself a favor and try it out! It's Fantastic!
I think that Jon should still check out Dune Part II out of his own volition. I think he would at least appreciate the historical context of it/just getting how much pop culture is derivative of the original Dune story and how much further Dune pushes its protagonists’ actions compared to its derivatives.
"This is stupid, and we're idiots" Probably the closest I'll ever get resembling an apology out of John.
It's fascinating watching you guys address Americans directly, it gives me a sense of the world's impressions about Americans broadly.
The world's a big place! America's just the loudest. - Me, an American.
Also David Lynch I feel is more Yoko Taro than Hideo Kojima.
Like, "Why did you do this? "... "Beacuse!" Lmao 🤣
1:40:15 I don't think this is Lynch hating his audience per say... more or less it was like, "OK, you think this murder mystery is fun and quirky but here's the thing; brutal murder IS brutal murder!"
David was like; "here is what happened exactly. Do you feel better about what you've seen? Because this is the truth."
FWWM is grim! Dark! And will hurt to watch; but it all makes sense... especially if you have seen the full series.
If I were to describe my notion of The Essential David Lynch Thing it’d be asking “How could you do this? Why would you do this?” - about evil acts but also lots of other human behavior - and not wanting to just dismiss it as inexplicable, feeling like if you burrowed down and earnestly pulled away as many veils as possible you’d arrive at true knowledge of some kind, and turning up a hell of a lot of compelling new datapoints in the process, but still feeling some sort of fundamental lack or mystery no matter how far you go. He achieves some world-record Vibes over the course of this process but I think every minute of it, however cute or nightmarish, is an attempt to document that essential inscrutability and our obligation to wade into it.
Omg the Twins of Peak are back again! So excited for this now that I’m caught up 💪💪
This podcast is an absolute highlight for me
twin peaks the movie and season 3 are really my favorite parts of the whole thing. they're just so fucking good. powerful emotional stuff.
One common and understandable mistake ppl make is thinking Sakuna did something to Choso. In that Scene, Sakuna is just expressing dissapointed that Yuji lost the fight. Yuji is actually legit one of Choso's brothers and Choso can feel when his brothers are on the brink of death. That's why he went all loopy because it's such a surprise that he would feel that way when he's about to kill yuji. Sakuna didn't do anything he was just watching Yuji die and was like bruh
1:02:33
Fun fact - Alex Hirsch originally wanted David Lynch to voice Bill Cypher. When they couldn't get him, Alex just did a David Lynch impression for the character voice.
I'm so in this for all the parts! But I'm incredibly excited for the Twin Peaks part!
I binged the entire vs series twice and listened to everything in the lounge. Right on time guys.
. . . Imma be bored AF tomorrow though
Finished watching the Shibuya Incident last night, time to come back to the podcast
Sad that Woolie already read Chainsaw Man before this podcast, the only person he ever gave his thoughts to was Pat who really didn't know anything about it. I guess there's always part 2 whenever it finishes if Woolie isn't keeping up with it.
3:11:03 ok this is just wrong, Choso says that he can feel anything that happens to his blood related brothers so when Yuji near dies he senses him almost dying making him realize that Yuji is actually his brother, the memories don't have anything to do with sukuna it's literally just to visualize Choso seeing yuji alongside all of his siblings
Tbf, I'm not surprised that confused them because the Bleach-esque convoluted way Yuji came to be has not been explained at all yet
Common misconception. When the manga dropped and even when the season was new people were still confused about all that. It took several more volumes before the twist stuck for a lot of people.
@@JoseRS1186 I remember people thinking Yuji's CT was memory manipulation because of Todo and Choso
they're both anime only and have no idea of what happens later, Woolie is doing a thing called "theorizing"
@@matehiqu9905 That's valid but the issue is that it's not a spoiler. You're supposed to take what Choso says at face value, the author just did a really bad job presenting it and opened the door to alternative explanations.
My favorite memory from video games as a kid was my mom coming by while my brother and I were playing Tenkaichi and she saw me lose a character to Hercule and made fun of me for it cause she knew Hercule from just seeing him randomly sometimes when we would watch DBZ
Yuji vs Mahito is probably my favorite fight in the whole series, including what’s not animated yet. It’s just got everything, the choreography, the loss, Todo, everything is firing on all cylinders.
Vibes are nice. Certainly part of Twin Peaks appeal. But they are also the seasoning. Seasoning needs to be applied to something.
I just want to speak to one element of Twin Peaks, on behalf of one point of view. Not telling the audience anything? That's a good, fun, worthwhile thing.
See there's something about a creator making something, handing it to the audience and going, hey, I promise there's an internal logic and through line here. Make of it what you will. Also I will never, ever, confirm or deny if you're "right or wrong" about any of it so long as I live.
That's fun! That's engaging! You the audience get to play detective, get to take all the pieces and craft your own world view. That's super cool and worthwhile.
At least that's a part of why I love Twin Peaks. And David Lynch in general.
Oh, and yeah, insert obligatory, something something, Fromsoftware world building. Because that's exactly it too. Don't tell me. Show me the world, I'll figure it out myself. I don't care if I'm "right or wrong".
Lets goooooo! Got caught up on JJK for this episode! Hyped to listen 😊
I wish I did, but I know the animation is at least half the fun, so I'll happily tank the spoilers.
...Again, because I've already seen stuff about the Shibuya Incident.
I wish I still had the same uncompromised appreciation for JJK as you, but I made the decision to read the manga
@@RougeMephilesClone I mean, the Shibuya incident stops where the anime stops also
@@samt3412 Oh, same, dude. lol
@FeenieVonKarma Like, the finale isn't good or bad, it's just incredibly mid and unsatisfying
The Caribbean delegation would like a recount
Loving the Boxing Arc so far
NOOO THEY THINK SUKUNA HAS MEMORY POWERS, they did not pay attention to ep 22…. 😢
yeah it was just a visualization of his brotherly instincts visualised cause they are children of brainguy, like they literally say it lmao
I hope Ruby's business picked up after this.
The Versus Wolves Friendship Era has the same vibe as ending a game of Mortal Kombat with a Friendship does.
Watching it feels like seeing a compilation of matches which always look like they aren't gonna end with friendships but still do
I love Dale Cooper's techniques like the rock throwing. It reminds me of the Dirk Gently character from Douglas Adams' books (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency and The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul). A private investigator who investigates based on the interconnectedness of all things. In one of the books you learn that his method of navigation when driving is to just pick another car and follow it, trusting that while it may not lead him to where he intends to go, it will lead him to where he needs to be.
So the less Lynchian aspects of Twin Peaks is thanks to Mark Frost, the writer. He and Lynch collaborated in a heart-brain kind of way of writing the story.
Jon performing Malevolent Shrine, confirmed Villian of the Podcast
"Now I ask you, Woolie, is dracula flow 5 better than starting boxing?"
Choso's memory shenanigans were explained in series. They do not have to do with Sukuna. Choso can feel his connection to his brothers, especially when they die. He said in one of the final episodes he could feel that same connection as Yuji was about to be killed by him. This lead him to believe that they must be related by blood
8:30 I haven't watched any further than this but this moment alone makes me think the friendship era will not survive this episode.
The boxing thing - as a sparrer myself is a ju jutsu kaisen parallel. You hit a black flash my boy!!!
I think what they missed is that Sukuna DOESN'T CARE if Yuji dies or not, he would let him die t the bathroom for being so weak as deserved.
For him Yuji is a fun pas time until what ever he is plotting (didn't read the manga so no spoilers) happens. Torturing Yuji and trying to make him break while Sukuna and other demons mock that silly human is entertainment as someone messing with ants to get a kick.
So far Sukuna has no empathy towards humans (at best he is interested in Megumi for some unknown reason) and the only one he had ANY respect so far was Jogo for, while silly in his way to go for his ideals, actually putting a good fight to the point Sakuna actually praises and acknowledges him as strong before passing on (don't get why Woolie thought the exact opposite of what happened there).
Sukuna is literally just bored and goofing around. it aint that deep. Kenjaku is the actual antagonist while Sukuna is the optional super boss.
2:43:29 THANK YOU OH MY GOD I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY
We have _Gojo Satoru_ , who's best friend is _Geto Suguru_ (two characters that have the same first and last letter of their first and last NAME), who taught _Yuta and Yuji_ ; the latter of which is friends with _Todo_ and 'brother' of _Choso_ and the former a friend of _Toge_ , who previously fought a guy named _Jogo_ , having a flashback to when he fought _Toji_ .
The longest one yet!
And I am so early that there are no timestamps! ;-;
Thought I'd have another week or so before this episode came out so I had to blast through the Shibuya Incident in a couple days, made it an awesome ride. Now to get some Carribean food delivered while I watch this.
I have already watched Twin Peaks season 1 multiple times in my life so I'm caught up on that.
My respect to always follow through with the recs. Did you also start boxing? lol
@@malna6220 Nah, I don't always check every recommendation, but this month's were all pretty doable
Hearing Woolie list off cool Shibuya stuff after reading the manga is a sad experience. Cause with everything cool that happens im like "yeah that goes nowhere" "yeah that was just rule of cool and didnt mean anything"
Yyyyyep
You’re wrong
I dunno man most of JJK is about rule of cool
imagine going to dragon ball with that mentality.
@@joedatius Difference is when Dragonball does rule of cool it's not presenting it as a mystery box or potential plot thread. Sukuna's Open Furnace being a "well known technique" for an example in the video
One interesting thing about Mahoraga is its theorized that people in the Zenin clan like Toji, could probably help Ten-Shadow Users subjugate Mahoraga because he wouldn't "count" as being a part of the Ritual as he doesn't have any cursed energy. But because the Zenin's constantly ostracize people like Toji this never materializes.
those guys really should of embraced Heavenly Restriction that shit is busted
1:21:49 best thing about Ed and Nadine is that the actors played the evil "Man and Woman" from Wes Craven's "The People Under the Stairs"
" Succession in real life "
So....the life of Vince McMahon?
@@brendanb2982 yeah, I was getting the vibes
Hey Versus Wolves. I just wanted to say thank you. Its been a really rough month but through the power of anime, friendship, spite, and *legal and safe amounts of mind altering substances*, your podcast helped me get my depressed body out of bed on more than on occasion. But also now i have thoughts on twin peaks and im annoying everyone. But on the plus side an afro Carribean place opened up within walking distance and the roti is life changing.
Shocked to see Jon bring up Re:Zero again for that fun little comparison about things people find overrated.
I do still think what the story is actually about would be completely up his alley (it's probably one of the greatest stories of empathy, depression, and learning how to love yourself and others out there period.) but it's fair to be turned off before you get to that point or cus of other little things/personal tastes.
These are still great as ever tho, friendship era is peak c:
I adore Re:Zero but I also have accepted that if someone bounces off of it that there's nothing anyone can say or do that will change thier mind. But that's ok since it's still able to reach those that are actually in need of its message.
@@PredictableEnigma Its one of those shows that you either hit or miss with. It really doesn't help that the main character is built to specifically shoot a kind of person in the face with "YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE" then *reload* and fire again with "AND YOU COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU TRIED"
In what part does he make that comparison ? Any timestamp
I think Re:Zero has some AMAZING character moments, like Rem's confession or Bea's S2 library scene, and I love it for those. But it also makes you slog through things like the whale fight or try to figure out WTF is happening with the plot in S2, which felt like it lacked half the explanations needed for it to be cohesive.
Also, did not like at all how they put one of its best characters in ice for all S2. Seems like they don't know how to keep the stakes high with her power around.
I would not blame anyone for bouncing off for not feeling the Isekai themes or getting bored during the low points.
@@Unit27 if you are talking about rem, then there's many more characters better than her that you will get to see getting spotlight in s3
Can we just make a separate podcast of Jon and Woolie just fucking going off about Anime? I love the way they describe it.
I got outside my comfort food and watched all of Twin Peaks for this
Audibly gagged when he mentioned Ruby Tuesdays. Felt a sigh of relief when they specified it wasn't an American Ruby Tuesdays lol
I binged season 2 of JJK and bought the twin peaks box set for this, lets go
I did not expect an episode this early. Let's fuckin go.
3:10:50 I’m an anime only guy but my theory on the false memory thing is that combined with the fact we know the main villain in control of geto’s body is a body swapper and something is up with yuji’s parents so maybe that villain is literally him and the blood dude’s dad and they are related through him
"There's 10 demons Fushiguro can suffer... I mean summon."
Nah, you had it right the first time if we're talking about the divine general!
Well, for the first time in my listening of this podcast im going to be skipping a section. I wanted to watch Twin Peaks for the longest time, and this bookclub thing was an excellent motivator to finally do so. Sadly, this month was buisy and I couldn't quite do it. So, until such time as I have finished Twin Peaks, I'll skip that section! See you fine gents next month!
Though to be clear, I will listen to the rest of it now. Need to get some Caribbean food too. Not sure how good the Caribbean is in Alaska but I will find out ...
Ngl being Caribbean and seeing our food reduced to like 5 Jamaican dishes (if I'm generous enough to count those "patties" as actual patties lol) and put as low as #10 while a Jamaican/Grenadan offers no argument otherwise feels like a hate crime lmao
I tought Choso explains why he didnt kill Itadori in his fight against Kenjaku.
the thing with choso and yuji is actually explained in episode 22.
Versus Wolves? I used to watch them
Still do. But I used to as well
I am finally watching the movie and Season 2 of JJK before listening to the podcast. I just watched episode 43 and I am absolutely devastated and not ok.
You guys should totally check out the blu-ray extended/intended cut of the Mahoraga fight!
They had to compromise for its initial release.
Sherlock vs Moriarty in that RDJ movie does something similar 3:19:00 where sherlock is analyzing the fight and Moriarty as his equal basically goes, "Ok now here is my turn predicting the fight"