We Find Out Why!! New DeWalt DCF891 Mid-Torque Impact Wrench Much More Power than the DCF894
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ค. 2022
- Last week we reviewed the DeWalt DCF891 20V Max Mid-Torque Impact Wrench and realized it has double the power of the older DCF894. Both mid-torque impact wrenches run on the 20V Max battery platform and both impact wrenches include a brushless motor. Since we powered through breaking free 900 ft-lb fasteners, then we wanted to find out how DeWalt made this happen with the same footprint. Let's just hope that we can get these things back together.
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Fun fact. You don't void your warranty by taking your own tool apart. DeWalt can claim to void your warranty since you took it apart. But the burden of proof to void the warranty is on DeWalt. They have to prove that by you taking it apart caused the damage that broke the part you're trying to warranty out. Manufacturers have been getting away with this since the '70s especially in the electronics field. the void if remove stickers are illegal and have been since 1975. They don't want to have to warranty out something that broke once you crack the seal of that sticker. they know it's illegal. But you're just one person against the corporation and they know you won't litigate it in court because of the resources it will take so they tell you, you void your warranty cuz it saves them money and they know you won't come after them for it.
That was a fun fact indeed. Peaked my interest to look into it further. I'd like to share if I may. You will void your warranty if you break a tamper seal. In 2018 the FTC cracked down on 6 major companies with three things deemed illegal. First, sticker seals that actually say things like "warranty voided if removed or defaced". Simply fix for companies to revise language on stickers to say such things like "security seal". Second, language stating that repair parts that must be purchased by a certain company. Thus creating a monopoly. I do believe they can still void for using aftermarket parts if they utilize a third party distributor to offer their manufactured parts for a slightly discounted price. Third, stating that any repairs made by anyone else besides authorized technicians will void a warranty. That is only illegal to state or enforce if the company does not then offer for free with warranty parts OR services. So they can make you pay for shipping costs or repair labor hours if a technician has to come to you. My thoughts if anyone cares is yes, every company's goal is to keep costs down. Some extended warranties are designed to turn a profit and they make a business from it. But manufacturers don't have to include a warranty for free with purchase. It's nice and I recommend you use it if you still have it. Also though I think it would be unfair and cause a company to go under if they didn't set guidelines. You would have everyone abusing it. Then you would have people trying to self repair. Break it more maybe to the point of a total loss and then send it in and say "now you try". If you want a no questions asked we will fix or replace anything for life, be prepared to pay Snap On prices.
I get that but if I made a tool and saw that you took it apart, especially with how smart these newer tools ate, I'd feel the same way about giving you money back for the tool you tinkered with so it's not as black and white ad ooh these big corporations. Not to simp for them either but I get that mentality
I do automotive for a living. Have owned the DCF891 (with 5a Powerstack) for a few days now and love it. I own the Hercules High Torque 1/2 impact wrench and wanted something close to those numbers but smaller and lighter. The 891 is exactly that. Very happy with both tools but can now handle jobs easier by not constantly using the heavy Hercules
Drill- Packedge in typical box, came with a tool bag (added bonus), two batteries, one charger, drill, and driver. Two words "plenty of Torque" th-cam.com/users/postUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv well I guess that's three. Nice upgrade from current setup. Has belt clips, I don't think I will be using those. Driver and drill were bigger than what I expected but it is an upgrade from the current setup. For the money I would say that this is a great setup for Professionals and DIY/Weekend warriors.
It would be interesting to see the impact mechanisms swapped then retested on 894 to see if the torque number rise
I'd imagine there will be some increase but not as much as the 891 as I would assume the 894 has a lower discharge rate vs the 891 due to the older design and thinner wires.
If you are willing to destroy these two wrenches I can tell you exactly how to find out what's behind the increased power in the DCF891. The increased mass of the hammer requires increased power from the motor to accelerate it. The giveaway lies in the increased wire sizes from the battery as well as the exposed windings of the motor stator (for increased cooling). For brushless motors you can increase their power by increasing the current draw by the stator. To do this you need to increase the diameter of the wire wound around each stator pole while simultaneously decreasing the number turns around each pole (maintains motor size). Then you can optimize the motors controller software to make effective use of the increased current without drastically altering its rpm. In short, you can tell exactly how they achieved the increased power by cutting the motor's stators apart and counting the number of copper winds around each pole. You may need to look out for parallel runs of wire around the stator (ie: 2 parallel wires wound around a pole 10 times vs 1 wire would around 20 times). Those two setups would make for very different motors.
In RC racing we've rated 540 sized motors by their numbers of winds for decades. It's a great way to get a rough idea of what kind of power & current draw you're getting yourself into (more isn't always better). Last I checked, sensored brushless motors has as little 3.5 turns wire around their stator poles making for insane power & extreme current draw. Additionally hand-winding of stators or rotors allows better packing of copper for shorter/tighter winds with lower resistance.
Very insightful comment. Thank you for the read. The Torque Test Channel made a video where they swapped a 2 oz heavier hammer mechanism into an impact wrench and it showed increased torque gains.
Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/xQzqNnWG21s/w-d-xo.html (it happens around the 9 min mark).
This has always baffled me for the same reason you mentioned in the beginning (more mass=more momentum but also greater inertia). I imagine your insights are a piece of the puzzle as well. Just figured I'd share.
Einstein has entered the chat
Nice copy and paste 😂
Awesome Video , I can't believe such a little increase makes double the Power , Great Job DeWalt ...👍🖖
Could you swap housing & hammer mechanisms & see how that affects performance?
Id like see that or is it over all more power going to the motor as well with wiring being ticker there has be more power flow
You can definitely swap the meaty bits. I did it with my my 894 and 891, but just be 80% of the 891
Interesting I wonder what that mechanism would cost from the DeWalt part site and thanks for that ratio
@@FordRanchero289 не получил из 894 891?
This is exactly the video and comparison I was looking for 👌😍
You did great job👍 and I am well informed now 🤝
Thank you so much for your efforts and good explanation
I ordered one of these this morning before watching this video tonight.
In the 891, I could also see heavier motor windings than the 894.
Interesting Tim.
Can't wait to put my hands on that beauty
Can't wait to see the new high torque now they can make that mid torque twice as powerful.
waiting for the new boss, the 991 full size
The older DCF894 has the regular capacitors that's usually an ackilles heal causing premature failure of electronics. DCF891 comes with the solid state capacitors wich normally are much more durable. If choosing only one power tool to rule them all (if DCF899 is overkill for more than regular DIY) the DCF891 (or in my case the DCF892) is the way to go. My choice became much clearer after watching this. Thanks a lot for the video!
I have little 3/8" right angles all the way up to a d-handle 1 1/2" air, Not so much overkill but what you use it for - If you want an impact to work on your car then there's very few times you will need a hi-torque like the 899, maybe if you live in a cold climate with road salt. A smaller gun will fit in more places, there's definitely places which require routine maintenance where an impact is a big plus like suspension work, but like I said it may not fit.
This all becomes more relevant when you start using universals and extensions which drastically reduce torque.
Nice, this is exactly what I wanted to see.
Amounts to basic physics and kinetic energy derived from the same revolutions on both models because the rotating mass of the 891 is higher, so is its kinetic force output, more current draw is needed from the battery as demanded by the motor due to the extra weight of the rotating mass driven to the same rpm, thus larger wiring to accommodate the current draw.
Simples.
Love your work, enjoyed the vid thoroughly.
Teflon was used in automatic transmissions to refuse weight and friction simultaneously.
I noticed the drive motor is apparently a newer, much higher performance design as well. From the onset of seeing larger wiring along with everything else that turns & burns in that bad boy is really "bringing hell with it!"
These types of videos are so interesting to me! Especially taking the old Gen apart compared to the new generation! Thanks for this man! Appreciate the work you do!
I use a 894 every day to assemble trailers, everything from lug nuts to jacks to fenders. Great little impact.
same here Scott. It has all the power I need.
Excellent video brother! 👍🇨🇦
Excellent video. Thank you.
Great video my brother!
Would you swap the impacting mechanism and snout/nose cone to see if the wires make a difference in power as well.
Thanks for comparing! Would be nice to know the gauge seize of each wire for nerds like me..
Thank you so much for doing this. I was half tempted to buy a 894 just so I could see what differences there were.
Also worth noting that the 891 seems to spin a lot faster too. Surely that's not just due to the thicker gauge wire?
Either way, really appreciate your time brother!
It's all digitally controlled as per motor speed
Very interesting...great vid. 👍
Great video!
Any chance to test hammer mechanism of 891 on 894, to see how it will affect performance?
The motors do look a bit different at the front of the motor. The old one is completely enclosed, but the new one has an exposed winding. It also looks to be a bit longer.
Nice info.
6:53 that Ridgid screwdriver was, & is, freakin’ awesome! Wish still made. Other brands make similar styles, but nothing as “good hand feel” as this Ridgid, imo. Plus, all others are more electronics repair type screwdrivers and wouldn’t use a tool like that for something like this.
Wish had one still.
Nice vid, thx for doing this….always fun to take things apart and see what they like, just glad it’s not my toys😉
Cheers😃
Did yours tear up?
it looks cool now ima have to go on the riged platform too😂
Being a mid torque impact do you think it will take the lug nuts off a 3/4 ram? Or what about raising and lowering the corner jacks on a travel trailer.
can you swap the mechanism and measure torque?
Iam curious to see dyno test of
894 with 891 hamer
891 with 894 hamer
To see how much power the 894 gains
And whats the difference with the bigger wire gauge on the 891
It seems that they made an internal universal Honda crankshaft bolt socket by swapping in those new components.
Way to think inside [outside] the box.
I've used both 894 and 899 and def found this 891 more impressive than both of them.. my go to even before the 2767-20 from Milwaukee.
It is a very impressive impact, especially for the size. Thanks for watching.
Hi Tim, this 891 is supposed to replace the 899? My 894 is good for car lugs, sometimes struggles with caliper bolts on cars, I’m very interested in the 891 when it’s available, excellent demonstration ty,
This does not replace the 899. We should see a new High-Torque Impact Wrench released pretty soon. This will replace the 899. The 891 is definitely a beast. Will probably handle most lugnuts unless they're really rusty. As always, thanks for watching.
The new mid-torque (DCF891) is replacing the old mid-torque (DCF894). The replacement for the old high-torque (DCF899) is supposed to be a new high-torque (DCF900) that will be released sometime this year.
With the new mid-torque (DCF891) producing 900'lbs of break away torque, that should be more than enough for any lug nuts or caliber bolts that I've ever seen up in the rust belt. That being said, I'm extremely curious of what the numbers the new high-torque will put out and how much it will cost.
@@jpowens2253 hi jp, ty so much for your reply, this totally makes sense and now I understand it, ty, Bob,
@@jpowens2253 Excellent info - many thanks. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
great video
I have had the 894 for about 3-4 years during the first year I would use it daily, I still use it now its worn out some but it still takes off truck tires no problem, I bought the 891 earlier this year, it had impressive power but after a month of daily use the planetary gear grenaded I returned it and got my money back and started useing the big brother again but I really did like haveing the power in a smaller lighter impact I just dont know if it can handle the heavy duty use that I put them through
I wonder what you mean by 'truck' because I own it and that 894 with an extension won't take off any trucks lugs that I've ever seen.
can you test the Bosch GDS18v-221?
Is there a LINK to this for Amazon ?
They gave the motor more juice and gave it a bigger hammer, makes sense
hello, how is this model working on, do you still have it, I'm asking because we have recently had problems with gears, do you know anything about it? Regards
Happened to me too.
I almost bought that 894 at Lows because they were clearing them out at around $169 for the bare tool!
$109 at my local Lowe's today
Haven't watched yet, but good topic👍
Why not a breakaway torque test on dcf894 with 21700 cells? Btw, luv the videos!
It is outdated model. Dcf891 way better
I hate the hog ring on my air impact but the detent model is this new gun is $21 higher so I got the hog ring model....
You miss the whole electronic part, it's got power detect extra pins . That's other reason for power.
Can some one tag me in a link to change the hog ring anvil to a pin drop anvil on the dcf 891b
How you doin tim?
So I want to start off by saying I don’t abuse my tool I just use it to takeoff lug nuts at work and the Dewalt DC F891 Has Way more power than the old model
Thats a smart move with the hammer instead of putting force infront they put it in the back
"Void any warranty by doing this"
Then the manufacturers blame "lack of internal maintenance" for voiding the warranty, like not lubricating the hammer assembly.
*Which you have to tear the tool apart to do so*
Did you actually have that happen to you?
@@en4orser Nope, but it happens. I did have a trigger stem break off on an impact, took it to Home Depot for the required inspection, and they required a $30 "deposit", and put me on a 2-week waiting list. That 2-weeks wasn't to complete the warranty process, but 2-weeks before they even looked at the tool. Then another month after that to ship it back to TTI for "further diagnosis". Ended up just buying a trigger assembly from Taobao for $2 and fixing it myself.
@@SubtractZero That deposit deal is weird. Was that warranty from home depot or dewalt? Just curious, I'll be grabbing one of these off Amazon. It's the lowest price right now. Have you used one with the hog ring anvil? If so did it give you any trouble with impact sockets? I read some reviews about it. But some people have no idea what they are doing. After reading complaints about the 3/8 model not being able to remove lug nuts I lost faith in anything said
@@en4orser I have the peasant-class TTI tools (Ridgid/Ryobi). It was a warranty for Ridgid, but ALL tool brands (other than HF) require a trip to a "repair facility", then they send it to the repair center 2 weeks later. HF just replaces tools on-the-spot. My Ridgid Subcompact takes lugs off nicely, especially with the heavier extended sockets. But the Ryobi was only good for freshly torqued nuts in a nice dry environment like Phoenix. I took mine apart to see why it was so gutless, and the hammer assembly weighed less than a bottle of eye drops. If you're willing to do some hacks using Home Depot's return policy and their "free tool" deal going on, you can get their mid-torque for $85. But you'll have to figure that one out on your own.
Is Mac tools making a 891 ? 😎
I'm not sure, we sure hope so.
There are more pins connecting the battery on the 841 . Maybe that and the beefier wires draws more beans from the battery for the motor. Cool video.
Can you pull the rotor out and look at the magnets inside the end of the gun were the windings are?great video
How come you have never tested the dcf894?
Cuz it sucks
I remember asking too test it over a year ago before TTC was really a thing. They ended up testing it at least.
It ain't no count
Why would the new tool be a 1 and the old be a 4. Little backwards
I bought the DCF 891 as soon as it came out and I’ve had two of them break on me I’ve had to get replacements each time I don’t understand
I smell Milwaukee fangirl
@@loucifer4205 1000%
I've had 9 Milwaukees break in 1 month
А что ломалось в них?
@@user-zi6mk5ye8j His weak wrists inability to hang on to the tool. I'll let you decide the tool in question
I bought a DCF891B at Home Depot a week or so ago. I used it briefly that evening and was not impressed. The next day I noticed that the documentation for the tool did not match the controls, and in taking a look at the tool I realized that I was holding a DCF894! The box and packaging had not been opened prior to when I opened it so apparently the 894 was packaged in an 891 box at the factory. Of course I returned to Home Depot and swapped it out, this time opening the box to verify what I actually had.
Anyway, the 891 is a very nice, very powerful tool. Made in the USA, hopefully it lasts for a very long time.
Does someone knows why my 894 does torque anymore i can’t take any car tires anymore I was thinking maybe the motor when bad
2:02 I appreciate the rephrasing of "How we get so much power..." to "How DeWalt gets so much power...". Give credit where credit is due. Similar to a subtle change in thinking I've made to take pride in the work I do with tools, not with the tools themselves.
Are they not high torques
Specifically stated mid torque in the title
@@en4orser noice
@@ImDaGoose_2 My apologies, I'm a jerk sometimes. I liked your response though
@@en4orser I'm chill lol
Please take things apart more! This is such awesome information.
Sidenote: People already buy Milwaukee tools and put their old tool in the box and return the old one in the new box for a refund. They don't look alike (M18 impact looks nothing like the M18 Fuel) but they fool HD/Lowe's... I bet the new model gets swapped by a ton of dishonest people since they really don't look any different unless you really know the differences. They really should have changed the colors around (like flip the yellow with the black).
For someone who only works on his own vehicles and already owns the DCF921, does he really need to buy this beast for basic suspension works, brakes, water pumps, alternators, etc.?
I own both and while the 921 is incredibly compact and strong for it's size, the 891's out the gate torque makes it much more suitable for larger and/or rusted nuts and bolts. As a rule of thumb I use the 921 as a true compact impact and it's nice for brake jobs, interiors (like taking out seats) and stuff under the hood, but anywhere I can fit the 891 I will use it since it just does it better and quicker, like lug nuts(including those 450 ft lb, no torque wrench used ones..people really do that..), rusted suspension bolts, crank bolts, axle nuts etc I can go on and on...in short..the 891 is a no brainer to add to your tools. It's future proofed slightly and has the power of many high torques including DeWalt's DCF 899. That's another reason I bought it..it's pretty much a compact and MUCH lighter high torque! I literally don't need the old 899 now because of the 891, but it's still close to my heart and won't get rid of it!
The DCF921 is very capable for anything under the hood and perhaps brake calipers, but you may find that it struggles a bit to remove larger suspension hardware that is often stuck with corrosion.
Depends on how corroded the suspensions you work on. Mid to heavy corrosion? You'll like the new model.
Light/no corrosion? Eh, more personal preference
Yes
Yes, no question
It's all about the motor. The mass of the hammer really isn't where any power difference comes from - certainly not twice the power. They are sending more current to the motor, plain and simple. It may be worth counting the teeth on the planetaries to see if the gears are different. If they could spin the motor faster and reduce it back down to the same speed, they would drastically improve power.
Well..may be if my 894 ever dies..................
Skip to the 6:00 mark to get past the fluff and to the actual topic of this video
Yay im the fist to put a comment.
The DCF891 certainly puts out some impressive numbers and is a good option if you are invested in the DeWalt line. Great to see the physical differences. I much prefer the tri-LED setup of the Milwaukee 2962. I previously owned the DeWalt DCF894, but the extremely cheap feeling forward/reverse switch made using the tool very frustrating. It had very little physical detent, which made bumping it into the wrong setting commonplace. It was so bad that I sold the tool and went to Milwaukee, which I don't regret at all. I wonder if DeWalt has redesigned the switch for the DCF891, but it doesn't look like it from where I'm sitting.
I can't stand that there is no 3 ring Led on the m12 impact wrench. And it's supposed to be for mechanics in tight spots, but put some trash light on it, poor design from the red brand
Don't need 3 ring led on a mid torque it's not going into tight spots anyway
@@Lee-lb9qh The entire *point* of more power in the same size, is so that you *can* use it in tight spaces, & still have all that power.
Dewalts numbering drives me nut, confusing like glock pistols.
You mean like G27 being a .40S&W? Why would that be confusing?🤔😉
That sticker doesn't f...all. My DCF941 comes from EU and still made in China?
6:12... as soon as I looked at it that is the obvious answer... larger dogs, larger Hammer, tougher spring...🤔
You left out the motor windings and wire sizes
It has the stars and stripes on it, Duh!
After selling my 894 I bought a DCF-900….. game changer. Now I’m going to buy a DCF-923 Atomic and call it good. The 891 really isn’t necessary anymore
Sounds like he has got a stuffy nose…