Do NOT round MGRS. Especially with 3 or less digits per Easting/Northing. MGRS represents an AREA not a POINT. Just remove the digits at the end of each block, first block being Easting, second Northing. The 36 S part is the grid ID, though some DCS maps have two adjacent grids so you need to make sure you are not in an area near the border between those, then it is important to verify the grid. The next two characters XA is a grid square describing a 100 KM x 100 KM area(!), then each digit in the Easting and Northing blocks as a pair describe a a tenth of that area, XA 11 is a 10 KM x 10 KM area, XA 12 12 a 1 KM x 1 KM , etc. XA 8339 6903 is a 10m x 10m area with its southwestern corner at 83,390m east and 69,030m north from the XA grids western and southern border (visualize this on the F10 map with the squares showing). Though in this case we are just a couple meters of by rounding, it is a couple hundred meters with 6 digits. So if you get a request to "search" (rounded) XA 8335 6904 you start looking at 834 690 which is 60m off to the northeast. 4 digits and we talk about 600m off... and you assume you need to search to the north and east from the MGRS grid you get. So TLDR: do not round MGRS, always cut to the required digits per block.
Interesting! It did occur to me that rounding might be an issue, and i spent some time in the editor dropping down an infantry soldier, then rounding and dropping a new soldier on those coordinates, and a third on the unrounded, to measure the effect, but it didn't make terribly much difference at this scale. I can see the issue that could be about on larger adjustments now, Thanks for the detailed explanation! Always learning with DCS.
@@RedKiteRender yeah, not terribly off at 1m or 10m, but my German Army Instructor hammered that into our brains, especially for artillery fire mission requests... 😁
@@shagrat47 Was the bigger issue that artillery can go really wrong if it lands in the wrong place, or that a German was being faced with less than maximal precision?
I respectfully offer a countering perspective. MGRS is a method of describing a POINT with a certain degree of precision. Not an area. A four-digit grid offers 1000 meter resolution. A six-digit grid offers 100 meter resolution. A ten-digit grid offers 1 meter resolution, and so forth. As such, if you simply drop digits from a higher-resolution string, you're potentially giving-away accuracy. In the example above, using the last three digits as examples: 39.8 is closer to 40 than it is to 39. Simply dropping the 8 puts the result 8 units from the point, compared to rounding, which puts the result 2 units away. 03.7 is closer to 04 than it is to 03. Simply dropping the 7 puts the result 7 units from the point, compared to rounding, which put the result 3 units away. So simply dropping the digits instead of rounding in this case make the resulting grid less accurate. A sensor will slew to the grid you provide. So the grid becomes the CENTER of the view/search area. In that case, I'd want my position location to be as close as practical to the point of interest, NOT the Left/Down truncated position resulting from simply dropping digits and then having to think about/visualize where to search. I simply want my sensor as close as possible to the "thing", because I'll be looking at it from all aspects anyhow.
Thanks again! Wags, You've been providing some great post release community question response videos. Hope they'll be a trend going forward with all modules!
@@RedKiteRender agreed. That's a nice way of customer support. Especially in these early days where some features are not implemented yet. I wish this would be more clarified in the handbook or even in the in game inputs menu. For example the FCR buttons are fully described but right now no FCR is yet implemented.
Thank you so much Redkite! It took me almost an hour yesterday to realize the MGRS format in F10 map has extract digits. Punching those wrong format coordinates in VR over and over again almost destroyed my neck!
Awesome video. I was absolutely raging attempting to add a custom battle point to the end of a preconfigured route. Mission orders had instructed me to patrol the battle point while waiting for enemy armour. I just couldn’t figure it out. You’re a lifesaver.
No offense to any other content creators, your content is perfect. Please add more, trying to learn this aircraft and your stuff is really understandable.
Absolutely brilliant! I've watched a fair few of these tut's now and this was so clear and concise. Now to upgrade my VR headset, so I can actually see the text on the MFD's.
I was actually waiting for you to put out this video and I'm so glad you did! I've tried to get my head round this so many times and watched everybody else's vids and it just wouldn't sink it, and I thought to myself "I need a RedKite video". You just explain things so well and your delivery is so accessible.
Excellent tutorial quality - also your video quality and editing is top notch. Hope to see some more in depth tutorials for the AH-64 in the near future.
What’s funny; you put the TSD on the left side so you can see the keyboard unit raiser for making a video. Which makes a ton of sense. I put it on the right cause that’s what I was used to from work. Just interesting to see how different view points change outcomes. Good job!
Thanks Casmo! Yeah it's an oddity of flight sims, only having the one 'hand' and being able to only interact with what you can see. I can totally see left hand keyboard, right hand, right screen in a cockpit being the way to go
Been following your tutorials since I started DCS way back when.. Excellent work as always Redkite. Would love to see more for the Apache, especially the CP/G, get scared everytime I switch seats lol.
I'm trying to find a CM I put in for one of the stock missions, but it wont show up on the TSD even when I have control measures shown. How to? It is stored in the database.
Can anyone help me, i followed this tut and the apache is making the WP's as i see them in the data box as they are made but they do not show up on the TSD screen, everything is checked as show in the show page.
Hi Mate, do you know how to get that "Fly-to cue" in the IHADSS? Is it automatic or needs to be selected separately? I seem to have the arrow in the heading tape
Thanks for the incredibly helpful and informative video RedKite. Just wondering if the pop-up co-ordinates window at about the 3:05 mark is part of the video editing, or if it is a DCS key assignment?
If you can't click the symbol with the cursor you can still use the search feature with the left keyboard. Use the Point page, click on Point> (button L1 on the mpd) and insert the name of the waypoint with the keyboard (for this you need to check first what the name is under the coords subpage, for example C51). When the system found the waypoint you can click on the mpd on DEL and accept with yes.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This has been frustrating the living daylights out of me since this module came out. Training mission, no issue, custom mission, KU just kept flashing, wouldn't take the coordinates.
The keyboard display shows UTM LAT/LONG, when asking for coordinates you enter whichever you want. (UTM being another name for MGRS in effect) Sorry if that wasn't 100% clear.
@@RedKiteRender ok, think I get it now...when it initially brings up, it says UTM LAT/LONG, you just enter one or the other and thats all. I love me some grid coordinates.
same here i have laser on and same laser code as hellfire , i laze the target the nose is in right are but the box isnt getting bigger which mean the hellfire isnt tracking my pilot is mad at me xD
Good stuff thanks! Do you know why a lot of missions WP01 is not the start point? In the Apache how would you return to base in that case? Other than going to WP01 and looking around from there.
The Apache in dcs doesn't generate a waypoint zero, on the starting location, so the mission maker needs to place waypoint 1 on the starting location to do that.
Just FYI, the point type automatically changing (i.e. WP to CM) based on the ident code you enter is not accurate to real world. It does work, in DCS, currently as you pointed out. ED may or may not remove this functionality in the future. It's better to get into the habit of manually choosing the point type prior to entering the ident code. Great video as always, though! Edit for additional info: The reason for this is because of duplication of ident codes. Example: The ident code BP as a Control Measure means 'Battle Position'. But BP as a Target Point means 'Blowpipe' (a type of manpad).
They'd certainly program in new targets, and I'd expect if you're working close to ground forces it's entirely possible the cpg would manually add notes on locations as a mission progresses. Can't wait for the mission editor to gain the power to add these though.. bit of a pity we can't yet.
Indeed, but you won't always receive co-ordinates in your preferred format from other sources like players, jtac or mission radio messages. It's an important skill to have.
Thanks, Redkite, I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong, turns out I was leaving on that last digit! Now for the real questions: how do you get that Israeli livery (I think the non-playable Apache had it?) and do happen to know where its kneeboard folder is? I tried manually creating an AH-64D kneeboard folder, but came up with snake eyes (gratuitous Nicholas Cage reference)
how the fuck you pull up that coordnites menu thing your looking at. can't find it anywhere. and can we just do it like the Harrier?? even that's confusing AF tho lol
Do NOT round MGRS. Especially with 3 or less digits per Easting/Northing.
MGRS represents an AREA not a POINT.
Just remove the digits at the end of each block, first block being Easting, second Northing. The 36 S part is the grid ID, though some DCS maps have two adjacent grids so you need to make sure you are not in an area near the border between those, then it is important to verify the grid. The next two characters XA is a grid square describing a 100 KM x 100 KM area(!), then each digit in the Easting and Northing blocks as a pair describe a a tenth of that area, XA 11 is a 10 KM x 10 KM area, XA 12 12 a 1 KM x 1 KM , etc.
XA 8339 6903 is a 10m x 10m area with its southwestern corner at 83,390m east and 69,030m north from the XA grids western and southern border (visualize this on the F10 map with the squares showing).
Though in this case we are just a couple meters of by rounding, it is a couple hundred meters with 6 digits. So if you get a request to "search" (rounded) XA 8335 6904 you start looking at 834 690 which is 60m off to the northeast. 4 digits and we talk about 600m off... and you assume you need to search to the north and east from the MGRS grid you get. So TLDR: do not round MGRS, always cut to the required digits per block.
Interesting! It did occur to me that rounding might be an issue, and i spent some time in the editor dropping down an infantry soldier, then rounding and dropping a new soldier on those coordinates, and a third on the unrounded, to measure the effect, but it didn't make terribly much difference at this scale.
I can see the issue that could be about on larger adjustments now, Thanks for the detailed explanation!
Always learning with DCS.
@@RedKiteRender yeah, not terribly off at 1m or 10m, but my German Army Instructor hammered that into our brains, especially for artillery fire mission requests... 😁
Ya rounding becomes a big issue when your trying to find those small nav points walking through the woods…..
@@shagrat47 Was the bigger issue that artillery can go really wrong if it lands in the wrong place, or that a German was being faced with less than maximal precision?
I respectfully offer a countering perspective.
MGRS is a method of describing a POINT with a certain degree of precision. Not an area.
A four-digit grid offers 1000 meter resolution.
A six-digit grid offers 100 meter resolution.
A ten-digit grid offers 1 meter resolution, and so forth.
As such, if you simply drop digits from a higher-resolution string, you're potentially giving-away accuracy.
In the example above, using the last three digits as examples:
39.8 is closer to 40 than it is to 39. Simply dropping the 8 puts the result 8 units from the point, compared to rounding, which puts the result 2 units away.
03.7 is closer to 04 than it is to 03. Simply dropping the 7 puts the result 7 units from the point, compared to rounding, which put the result 3 units away.
So simply dropping the digits instead of rounding in this case make the resulting grid less accurate.
A sensor will slew to the grid you provide. So the grid becomes the CENTER of the view/search area. In that case, I'd want my position location to be as close as practical to the point of interest, NOT the Left/Down truncated position resulting from simply dropping digits and then having to think about/visualize where to search. I simply want my sensor as close as possible to the "thing", because I'll be looking at it from all aspects anyhow.
Thank you for the continued support and have fun.
Thanks again! Wags, You've been providing some great post release community question response videos. Hope they'll be a trend going forward with all modules!
@@RedKiteRender agreed. That's a nice way of customer support. Especially in these early days where some features are not implemented yet. I wish this would be more clarified in the handbook or even in the in game inputs menu. For example the FCR buttons are fully described but right now no FCR is yet implemented.
You sir deserve way more subscribers for such a detailed tutorials.
This ^^
Quantity kills quality on youtube sadly. Plus you have to be mildly insane to take the time required to make detailed tutorials.
@@RedKiteRender i am insane lmao
@@RedKiteRender I think everyone with this hobby has to be mildly insane. I love it.
That livery looks so good, definitely have to download it
Nice one redkite, I’ve been struggling with this, and here you are to save the day ………again 👍
Thank you so much Redkite!
It took me almost an hour yesterday to realize the MGRS format in F10 map has extract digits. Punching those wrong format coordinates in VR over and over again almost destroyed my neck!
Same LOL
I've said it before, I'll say it again....your vids are top notch! Thanks for the help.
Awesome video. I was absolutely raging attempting to add a custom battle point to the end of a preconfigured route. Mission orders had instructed me to patrol the battle point while waiting for enemy armour. I just couldn’t figure it out. You’re a lifesaver.
No offense to any other content creators, your content is perfect. Please add more, trying to learn this aircraft and your stuff is really understandable.
I hope you are doing well brother and i appreciate all the info you have shared over the many years i have been flying DCS.
Absolutely brilliant! I've watched a fair few of these tut's now and this was so clear and concise.
Now to upgrade my VR headset, so I can actually see the text on the MFD's.
This tutorial is gold!! Subscribed... Please continue this style of tutorials, short and to the point.
I was actually waiting for you to put out this video and I'm so glad you did! I've tried to get my head round this so many times and watched everybody else's vids and it just wouldn't sink it, and I thought to myself "I need a RedKite video". You just explain things so well and your delivery is so accessible.
Clear and easy to follow, as always !
Thanks Redkite
Thanks for the thorough rundown of coordinate formats and conversions, very helpful!
As always, great video, mr Kite!
Thanks Mr Kite. When it comes to details, you're the go-to man!!
Thanks again Phantom.
Redkite, you are the GOAT! You just answered so many questions for me. Thank you for what you do.
Awesome video Redkite. Thorough yet concise as usual.
Excellent tutorial quality - also your video quality and editing is top notch. Hope to see some more in depth tutorials for the AH-64 in the near future.
This is the Best explanation of waypoint creation I have found. Thankyou, I was really struggling with this!
You're very welcome!
What’s funny; you put the TSD on the left side so you can see the keyboard unit raiser for making a video. Which makes a ton of sense. I put it on the right cause that’s what I was used to from work. Just interesting to see how different view points change outcomes.
Good job!
Thanks Casmo! Yeah it's an oddity of flight sims, only having the one 'hand' and being able to only interact with what you can see. I can totally see left hand keyboard, right hand, right screen in a cockpit being the way to go
Best video on this subject, just what's needed.
Thank you for using my livery and for giving credit 🙏
No problem 👍 Is a great livery!
Been following your tutorials since I started DCS way back when.. Excellent work as always Redkite. Would love to see more for the Apache, especially the CP/G, get scared everytime I switch seats lol.
Best , clearest tutorial . Great work. 😀
Thanks a lot!
Best TSD video i have seen so far.
Outstanding video. Thank you so much. I finally understood how the TSD works
Theres no contest against RedKites tutorials
Very well done, it's the most informative video about the navigation so far!
I'm trying to find a CM I put in for one of the stock missions, but it wont show up on the TSD even when I have control measures shown. How to? It is stored in the database.
Clear and concise as always. Thanks again.
Can anyone help me, i followed this tut and the apache is making the WP's as i see them in the data box as they are made but they do not show up on the TSD screen, everything is checked as show in the show page.
Great explanation!
They're hiring at Ft. Rucker.
Thanks kindly, I'll grab my coat!
When I put in the IDENT its just flashing and not doing anything.
For some reason I can't input AE as an ident and CM has a greenbox and doesn't allow selection. Has this changed since this video released?
Can you do a video from front seat how fire hellfires what each button mapping is etc
What a great vid, just perfect, ty so much! Keep it up!
Im trying to put the cursor on map with no luck
Hi Mate, do you know how to get that "Fly-to cue" in the IHADSS? Is it automatic or needs to be selected separately? I seem to have the arrow in the heading tape
great tutorial my dude. This helped me alot!
uh i did the exact same thing you did but it wont let be enter a ident, it let me put in LZ for landing zone but i tried AE and it just flashed at me
I believe it's been changed since this this video, you now need to select the correct type before entering a subtype.
When I press cursor enter it freezes the TSD, when in point mode it does nothing
Thanks for the incredibly helpful and informative video RedKite. Just wondering if the pop-up co-ordinates window at about the 3:05 mark is part of the video editing, or if it is a DCS key assignment?
It's a cropped screenshot from the editor. R CTRL Y to open it. But like i said it only appears in the editor.
@@RedKiteRender thanks
RedKite, best guy🤠
how do you add Lat long as a apoint or does it have to be MGRS cant see how this worked?
\
Just enter the Lat/Long in the same place as the MGRS the computer figures out which you entered
Very nicely presented. I would like to know how to delete a Stored Target if it is even possible. It can get really cluttered
Can you delete them same way as normal points? I've not messed too heavily with stored points, not had a lot of time in cpg beyond training.
@@RedKiteRender I can't figure it out to be honest. If you get it figured, Can you do a Video on it?
If you can't click the symbol with the cursor you can still use the search feature with the left keyboard. Use the Point page, click on Point> (button L1 on the mpd) and insert the name of the waypoint with the keyboard (for this you need to check first what the name is under the coords subpage, for example C51). When the system found the waypoint you can click on the mpd on DEL and accept with yes.
@@Tepnox Roger, I will give that a try. Thank You sir
How do you get it to manually enter MGRS versus lat/long?
just enter either one when the display asks for utm/lat long
Excellent info. thank you!
Thank you! Helpful as alwys👍
Nice job, well done and well explained!
Thank you for this!!
Thank you kind sir
what it that coordinates window u have on the top left?
They're a screenshot from a tool in the mission editor, sadly not available in-game. (it really ought to be!)
@@RedKiteRender oh man, thats too bad. that tool would be awesome to have! thank you very much for responds
could be possible to mark point (for example an enemy unit) using the helmet, like the new A10C?
The CPG has the ability to do this, but not the pilot.
@@RedKiteRender yes the fun in this helicopter is the front seat
I guess with teamwork you could use the PLT Line of sight slave to mark a new location, but the CPG is the one who does that too.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This has been frustrating the living daylights out of me since this module came out. Training mission, no issue, custom mission, KU just kept flashing, wouldn't take the coordinates.
Fantastic video, thanx
I wish I could find where the IAF skin is.
The description
When I press enter the thing just blinks
Redkite-- Where do you find or get that Grid Information box. ?? That is Huge.
That is so much to learn, but thank you for making the video
so the computer either takes lat long or MGRS? how do you swap between the two on the CDU?
Yep either one, long as it's formatted in a particular way.
@@RedKiteRender so you dont necessarily have to select anything on the CDU, just enter them in either one or the other format?
The keyboard display shows UTM LAT/LONG, when asking for coordinates you enter whichever you want. (UTM being another name for MGRS in effect) Sorry if that wasn't 100% clear.
@@RedKiteRender ok, think I get it now...when it initially brings up, it says UTM LAT/LONG, you just enter one or the other and thats all. I love me some grid coordinates.
Bit of a stupid question how do you know you mgrs coords to begin with?
L Alt Y on the F-10 map
@@RedKiteRender thank you so much! Love the content as well!
please do hell fires with a buddy guide. because I think its all bugged
same here i have laser on and same laser code as hellfire , i laze the target the nose is in right are but the box isnt getting bigger which mean the hellfire isnt tracking my pilot is mad at me xD
There's a number of multi-crew desync issues at the moment.
Good stuff thanks! Do you know why a lot of missions WP01 is not the start point? In the Apache how would you return to base in that case? Other than going to WP01 and looking around from there.
The Apache in dcs doesn't generate a waypoint zero, on the starting location, so the mission maker needs to place waypoint 1 on the starting location to do that.
Do you know if there are any way to add threats in ME ?
Nope, not yet sadly.
great video very rich of info ;)
Just FYI, the point type automatically changing (i.e. WP to CM) based on the ident code you enter is not accurate to real world. It does work, in DCS, currently as you pointed out. ED may or may not remove this functionality in the future. It's better to get into the habit of manually choosing the point type prior to entering the ident code. Great video as always, though!
Edit for additional info:
The reason for this is because of duplication of ident codes. Example: The ident code BP as a Control Measure means 'Battle Position'. But BP as a Target Point means 'Blowpipe' (a type of manpad).
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind, it's one of those things that's hard to know, so you just gotta report it how it is in the sim.
Thanks 👍😎
Thank you very much
Thank You!
I am assuming TACAN comes at a later date?
AH-64Ds never had TACAN.
It's only got ADF
Can this be done on ground power?
Can probably be done on APU power, so i don't see why not, the INS/GPS will need to align first though.
@@RedKiteRender Thank you RedKite
Hello, at 2.41 how do you display coordinates converter ? Is it a mod ? Thanks for this excellent video 👍
It's a screenshot from the mission editor.
@@RedKiteRender Thanks 👍
@@RedKiteRender But how do you get it? I don´t see in the editor a menu or icon to get that converter. Thx a lot for your help
@@GalloRojos R CTRL Y i think it was, or some other combination of modifier and Y.
@@RedKiteRender Yes, that´s it! Thx a lot.
Tactically do the pilots ever utilize this in this manner while flying a mission? Or is it all preloaded? Well done tutorial nevertheless.
They'd certainly program in new targets, and I'd expect if you're working close to ground forces it's entirely possible the cpg would manually add notes on locations as a mission progresses.
Can't wait for the mission editor to gain the power to add these though.. bit of a pity we can't yet.
Hm but you can just switch the coordinate system in the F10 Map (on the fly) if you click on it, then you wont need any conversions.
Indeed, but you won't always receive co-ordinates in your preferred format from other sources like players, jtac or mission radio messages. It's an important skill to have.
Thanks, Redkite, I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong, turns out I was leaving on that last digit! Now for the real questions: how do you get that Israeli livery (I think the non-playable Apache had it?) and do happen to know where its kneeboard folder is? I tried manually creating an AH-64D kneeboard folder, but came up with snake eyes (gratuitous Nicholas Cage reference)
It's linked in the description :)
Mea culpa and many thanks ^_^
how the fuck you pull up that coordnites menu thing your looking at. can't find it anywhere. and can we just do it like the Harrier?? even that's confusing AF tho lol
👍👍
The worst thing is when you die/crash you have to do it all again... 😞
the tutorial confused me even more...
I don’t like the livery
why does it only take 2 decimal points lmao that's so dumb
You're not dropping jdams with this, the accuracy isn't needed.