Taxes in Thailand - is there a tax loophole or not?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Taxes in Thailand - is there a tax loophole or not?
Expat Tax Thailand about ATM withdrawals:
www.expattaxthailand.com/how-...
Pasta Lab 38:
maps.app.goo.gl/nT6L2XLrDspW4...
Support Our Channel and Buy Us a Coffee?
buymeacoffee.com/ployjaystory
Meet us, and stay with us:
Bedroom 1:
Airbnb.com/h/ployhouseroom1
Bedroom 2:
Airbnb.com/h/ployhouseroom2
Questions? Email: ploybuachompoo31@gmail.com
Ploy’s other channel:
youtube.com/@ployjaystory?si=z7XiEs4SHeRSLUQq
Jay's visit to the Buriram tax office:
th-cam.com/video/rdHhx8tyLW8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=vSaChz5cI_vjwgR
All tax related videos:
th-cam.com/play/PLu5eQt40KrSe7i5_5G8aOFTtbETmt2QnE.html&si=w9gAOyxnjvt70OON
Want to find a Thai partner? Here’s the dating site we met in 2021:
www.thaifriendly.com/?ai=3527
If you need to transfer a substantiel about of money - for a house or si in Thailand - transfer the money in a income (kalender) year BEFORE you move to Thailand.
Or plan your move to Thailand so you are just under 180 days in the income year, so you are not considered a tax residence in Thailand.
That is one way 🙏
If you have only ATM withdrawal, R.D will find them, be sure! They can ask for your bankstatement back home to declare where you get money from or they can contact taxation in your home country. Info can go both ways if there is a DTA. All foreign transactions are registered too, and maybe the online system they have been talking about long time is working. They may already have the info! They just push the right button...
Easy to track and found, when they audit you
@@PloyandJayinThailand The DTA give Thailand the right to collect all info they need! It also gives you the right to stop tax in your homecountry during the year if the taxes SHALL be paid in Thailand. Only a few %% of farangs will understand this rights!
That video you refer to is exactly the video i had in mind when I read the title of this video.
Hahaha
Death and tax is a certainty in life. There are also loopholes in everything except when you’re dead.
Exactly
Great video Jay! Great topic especially for people like my husband and myself! We plan on moving there but are now giving it a second thought 😱 We’re already being heavily taxed in the US & don’t really care to pay more tax elsewhere….very disappointing!
Thanks for posting this video 😊
I suggest to find out your tax situation in Thailand, especially because Double Tax Treaty protects you and you are already heavily taxed in US. Thanks for watching
Thailand signed up to global Common Reporting Standards (CRS) in 2023. From what i have seen from tax expert opinions so far, are that transactions from ATMS will be able to be reported to Thai Revenue Office (if not already now with CRS). A foreigner with an ATM card - will be linked to a foreign account in their name usually and CRS will have record of movement of those funds. The guy in the interview who said it is a loophole - i am not convinced.
Thai Revenue Office aren't stupid to know there will be attempts to circumvent money tracing incoming into Thailand. ATMS aren't somehow separate entitites IMO. It's a transfer of money inwards from an international source - whether directly via an offshore bankcard or via a third-party money exchange transaction card like WISE. All linked to your name.
There will be those who may try setting up offshore companies and obtaining a company ATM card. Probably already being done by high net worth Thai individuals earning offshore. I have heard of Singapore being used as an example.
Sending money to a spouse is a partial loophole as it's capped per year and of course involves trusting her (let's wait for some poor guys getting scammed on this one).
The other option - make plans to stay outside Thailand for less than 6 months in one year. Then transfer as much money as you want for that year (or years), come back and live full-time again. That will be tax-free. You could bring in 5 Million baht to buy a condo, etc, without additional 35% tax that way. Downside to this strategy of course is extreme inconvenience for settled expats who don't want to/cannot find somewhere outside Thailand to stay for 6 months to circumvent incoming foreign remittance taxes. Other downside are poor to zero bank interest rates on bank savings in Thailand. I can get 5.1% at the moment in Australia just in bank savings account. My Thai account is 0%.
99% of expats are just waiting and seeing what will happen. If Revenue office clamps down, many expats will choose to leave if the dual tax agreement with their home country and Thailand doesn't exempt them from tax (such as my private Australian pension I have contributed into (after tax), which is tax exempt in Australia and therefore may be taxable in Thailand Thailand).
@@tyvid one would think that Thailand would not break any DTA with any country. The dta between Australia and Thailand stipulates in article 18&19 that pensions and annuities are only tax in the state of origin. The only situation where it will be taxed as example a Thai citizen returning to Thailand with Australian pension.
@@Tony-eb5kh a Thai citizen returning to Thailand with Australian pension. Ok. But as an Australian citizen moved to Thailand over 180 days, with an Australian pension, I am deemed a tax resident of Thailand exactly the same as the Thai citizen. Thanks for raising those sections, but there are interpretations that still consider Thailand will be able to still legally tax my pension. I hope you are right. But there are several who disagree (unless that pension has been tax or government pension which are exempt).
@@tyvid may l suggest you download the dta between Australia and Thailand and read for yourself. It’s in English and also in Thai. Was signed in 1989. To much speculation thrown out there with nothing set in concrete. I personally am not worried. Will continue to enjoy a great life here in Thailand.
Great insights. I agree that RD is not stupid, I don’t personally buy that claim ATM withdrawals are tax free in Thailand. Who knows Thailand makes this year some U-turns…
There is just one thing to take into account if you are considering using Visa or Mastercard to withdraw money or use it for consumption in e.g. Thailand. It is banks' incredible greed in terms of fees and bad exchange rates. Here in Denmark, the big banks have announced that as of 1/7 2024, withdrawal fees will be raised and the exchange rate will deteriorate significantly. Sooooo maybe better pay tax in Thailand?
Better to pay 3% and 220 baht ATM fee than 40% me thinks.
Maybe better or maybe not 😂I think the best way is to clarify your tax situation and plan what is the amount of money you can send tax free. I like QR payments.
My provincial revenue office made it clear to me that it would be money transferred into the Thai bank account from overseas.
Also, a point of note is that loans are not taxed. What is a credit card? It is a form of a loan. You are using your banks money, and then you are entrusted to pay back from your funds. Therefore, no tax payable.
Loopholes everywhere.
Ok. What about ATM withdrawals?
@PloyandJayinThailand
Only remittance to Thai bank accounts. ATM would be too costly (time wise) for RD to track. Two separate officers had this opinion.
I think more is to come and to be finalised, let's wait and see what happens. I don't think they have thought all the processes through and understand all the implications to tax treaties to and from other countries. And for countries to agree and approve within their own tax laws. Interesting days ahead.
@@hassaman5 impossible to track, but they should clarify if you must add ATM withdrawals (if assessable income which are taxable) to your tax return or not. Anyway filing a tax return is based on your honesty. But if they audit you…
Not impossible to track, all transactions are known because your passport is at the bottom of everything. With a DTA they can also ask for all info from your homecountry, and they will see all. There is no free transfers actually! What if you need it for Immigration, no extension before you can show transfers. A very dangerous plan to use only ATM...
@@PloyandJayinThailand Why would they audit you if you don’t even have a bank account in your name? Never remitted refunds into the country. Nothing to worry about. Use ATM, use CC, use gf bank account. Need to buy a house? GF send to bank account: Nothing is ours anyways here.
Whene and my wife move to Thailand, i need a retirement visa. For this visa i need to show that i have a monthly income (pension) of at least 65000 baht on a thai bank account. So for my situation it is clear. I need to pay tax in Thailand. But even than it is better then paying tax in the Netherlands. But i need to Investigate this in detail, this new tax situation in Thailand is still very confusing for me.
There are many moving parts to find out if you pay tax or do not pay tax in Thailand. Tax planning is suggestible
Why didn't you come here on a non o visa married to a Thai that's what I did , no show of income only have to show immigration each year that there is a minimum of 400,000bt in my Thai bank 3 months before I renew my yearly visa . The money I keep deposited is in a senior super saver and pays me about 400bt a month and free accident insurance
@@PloyandJayinThailand
Next time when I am in Thailand I need to speak with a specialist in Thai Tax. Do you know somebody in Buriram who has this expertise?
@@AdriaanW1966 go tax office and ask a tax advisor. It’s free service. That’s what I did.
I know that in Germany I get my tax assessment for the previous year in June at the earliest.
So I won't have a tax assessment notice before the deadline in Thailand at the end of March so that I can use the DTA if necessary. Is it different in Finland? How did you handle it?
We get income/tax reports online before the deadline in Thailand
In Australia our tax year ends 30 June each year. We have until 15 May following year to lodge our Australian tax returns - sometimes needing to wait more than 6 months for everything. And if tax is due it is strategically better in Australia to defer lodging until deadline so as to make interest on the tax payment eventually due.
Thai tax year beginning 1 Year and lodgement due by March, I may not have Australian tax return lodged for previous financial year yet, so big problems showing taxed, untaxed, tax deductible and tax-credit income sources. An absolute nightmare coming if this happens 😢.
I agree with you that it does appear too good to be true. Then again, like you said, the Thai government is not looking for additional tax income from expats.
Based on what I've paid in taxes so far this year I won't have to worry at all about next years filing. 😂
😂
Not to mention those ATM withdrawals a os card purchases would be tax free in any case if you already had the money that funds them before 2024 or if you've already paid sufficient tax on funds from 2024, so many moving parts it would be impossible to police either way.
Correct
If you know a very trusty Thai person, use Wise and transfer money to that person. Then have that person transfer to you. Thais will not be taxed unless sent over B20m.
Sounds very bad strategy. You just get problems when they see the transactions and you get caught.
@@PloyandJayinThailand I have researched it! Payment to a Thai National is possible. I'll wait it out and see what happens!
@@senianns9522 when Thai person transfer money back to you, what do you think might happen?
@@PloyandJayinThailand Thai friend didn't transfer to me last usage. Paid direct to the seller on my behalf--a Thai company!
@@senianns9522yes. Need to buy a house, send the money to your gf bank as a gift. Buy the house. No income repatriated.
Hei. Do you know if they have extended the visa for Europeans to 2 months? Or maybe they haven't implemented it yet?
🌴🌴🌴
Not yet. Hopefully this month.
I haven't read the Thai legal documentation on this law. However, I'm guessing, the Thai authorities don't have the power or the resources to check foreign bank or credit card accounts. I think that is what he is saying.
Filing a tax return in Thailand is based on the honest information you provide to Thai tax authorities. So the question is not can they track foreigners' transactions or not? The problem is if they audit you and see all your actions. That’s why I rather hear clarifications from the Thai tax authorities.
@@PloyandJayinThailand Correct: All electronic transfers can be pulled and sourced. Larger amounts will be priority!
@@senianns9522 Exactly
Interesting to know what the deductions were you mentioned
It depends on your situation. This might help:
sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html
Thanks a lot for this VDO. An other interesting remark the tax lawyer made in the VDO from "Retire to work for you" is: "with the updated interpretation of the order 162 all income accrued before 1 jan 2024 is not subjected to taxation."
So logically this would mean when I bought stocks in 2014, let's say in total for 100 k US$, and which was valued based on the stock price on 1 jan. 2024 at 200 k US$ and I sell the stocks on 1 July 2024 for in total 250 k US$ and I will bring this total amount into Thailand, while living more than 180 days during 2024 in Thailand, the tax considered by Thailand will be tax over 50 k US$ (250 k-200 k), correct?
Sounds like that but you should read the Double Tax Treaty how is it between your home country and Thailand. If you pay high taxes like me it might be exempted.
Why always asking foreign tax experts and not Thai tax experts? What would the Thai accountant or tax expert answer to this ATM question? 😉
Everyone have a different answer 😂
If not Thailand has income from taxes, we would not have roads, water in the kitchen ++, so if you do not like to pay tax, just move back home! Tell your home country to change the DTA, so you will have an advantage of paying your taxes in Thailand, some of us have already that and we save a lot of money every year! The DTA is the main TaxLaw, its above the Tax law in your home country and above the Thai Tax Law! The DTA gives Thailand the right to collect all info they need! It also gives you the right to stop taxation in your home country during the year if the taxes SHALL be paid in Thailand. Only a few %% of farang will understand this rights! The DTA is your key to understand double taxation! If you have paid too much tax in your home country, they will pay you back later after received documents, R.O 21 and 22, from Thailand, but it can take time to have the final Tax certificate and the money back.
Thanks for your input 🙏
Another loop hole and one of the easiest.
Yes credit card and bank card but charges may be high and exchange rate may be low .
As far as I am aware a gift of upto 5,000,000bt
Is allowed without tax .
Why don't people send money as normal like through wise from your home country to your bank up to your tax allowance, and send the rest in a gift to someone you trust
Someone you trust might be a challenge 😂
I think in general you may be correct.
Luckily I have been married to a Thai since 2006 and my wife and family have never asked for 1bt .
My wife came to the UK in 2006 and we both worked together to build ourselves and the mother in law a house.
I think maybe I am fortunate, they do both rely on me and like most farang I do give my wife and mother in law 10,000bt a month each out of my own choice.so if I was ever ripped off for any gift given to evade tax their income stops . So my position is they need me more than I need them , they have also helped me get a driving licence, id card and my own tabian ban . So I think all is good both ways. And we all have a good life.
@@robertmeredith4847 thanks for sharing
A country needs to fund its roads, hospital, schools, maintain national parks etc. It's residents pay taxes, that is the "social contract". At an individual level, minimising income tax may be a logical thing to do, industries are built around it, but if everyone does it the system breaks. At the extreme, if everyone uses loop holes to avoid/minimise personal income tax, when it becomes more than the government can tolerate, then they'll just close the loopholes or have to switch to consumption taxes (i.e. VAT) or visa extension fees, or some other means to raise revenue way harder to avoid. It's safe to assume new retirees to Thailand probably paid very little tax over their working life toward developing infrastructure in Thailand, so little steep to now expect to completely freeload off Thai taxpayers. And what are they leaving in the west, for the most part huge unsustainable debts being inflated away because their corrupted governments let the rich and corporations get away without paying enough taxes over the decades or otherwise let the populous live a deluded, vote winning, standard of living beyond their means, sorry to say. Yes, it happens in Thailand as well, we all perceive "fairness" in different ways. So in moderation, a bit of "tax" in Thailand to enjoy my retirement is a social contract I'm willing to enter, so long as I feel the balance is fair.
As long as it’s fair play and fair tax, and it is because Double Tax Treaties. But unforrunately foreigners have better choices, and many bring much less money into Thailand because of the mess. I am waiting some sort of U-turn or exemptions, but we’ll see.
@@PloyandJayinThailand Agreed, it'll all work itself out. Mei pen rai. Just see a lot of short-sighted nonsense in some of the comments on the various tax videos, and I expect Thailand will be just fine without those that want to play tax arbitrage with other poor and developing countries.
@@DaZa-mm8hz many foreigners who leave now Thailand because of taxes, they’ll come back after realizing that Thailand is the place to get the best value of your money
No sound! ????.
I have sound restart it
🤔
After your meal, are you chewing gum? Not recommended for future videos Jay.
Hahaha
My avoidance is to use Wise to transfer to my daughter's second account and have the card for my use. Transfer minimum amounts to my own account for continuity with online shopping and utility bills. Well under the tax threshold, gift money to my daughter, daughter to father and a Double Tax Agreement with my home country. They won't give me a TIN but a stern warning not to come back.
Sounds good if they don’t give you a TIN and kick you out of the tax office. I would appreciate the same treatment in Buriram 😂
@@PloyandJayinThailand Buriram is not a region office, only a local office. Korat is your Region Office, they have International Taxation.
TIN number is the same as PinkID today. Before PinkId came it was a different number.
@@arolavs I file my tax return in Buriram. The tax advisor here knows international Treaties very well 🙏
@@PloyandJayinThailand Yes, but they were actually a region office before it changed to Korat, so I know they have some intern. experience. Korat also got 3 new provinces under their area, which before were under Udon thani.
atm's and credit card exchange rates are not good ....probably paying the tax in regards to the loss you made in the exchange rate !!!!!!.....Gift money in to my wifeeys account is the way to go......
Thanks for your input
I prefer to get my tax information from experts, not youtube.
Experts are on TH-cam also
Waste of time CLICKBAIT
Glad you like it 🙏
Just ignore if u are not big fish, not worth authority effort to get to u
99% of foreigners will ignore it until Thailand forces them to file a tax return
@@PloyandJayinThailand you are supposed to file a tax return now. I think big fish take a big risk ignoring. Any country authority will only go after the big fish because there is a cost taking action. Small potato just not worth the cost so is safe. But small potato among foreigners maybe big fish among Thai, so still have risk