Beovox 3000 great sound from vintage speaker (with live sound comparison Rogers ls35a)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- Here I review and do a live sound comparison with the rogers ls35a a much more expensive and highly regarded speaker.
Beovox 3000 (40 watts) 1968
using Marantz 2238bl power amp section and linn Wakomda pre amp. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The missus said to me the other day.... Let me get this straight. You spend £1,000 on speaker cables because you can 'hear the difference' but you can't hear me calling you from the kitchen! Lol 😆
I struggle to understand how one who likes the LS3/5a takes pleasure in the Beovox's sound, so to my own surprise I have to admit I do like the Beovox.
Nice review. Enjoyed the demo at the end.
Thank you , you allways make my day.live without passion and obsession is not yours. Congrats Reinhart
Nice work. I really enjoy the open, lively sound of the Beovox 3000's. Thanks for the demo.
This is a welcome innovation in your vlog Kelvin.I hope you do this more.
will do K
Love your wisdom and how you present it...feels like i'm listening to you as a good friend!
Yeah well I’m trying to give the truth in this rather crazy Hi Fi world
Thanks thanks K
Watching from US. Fun video as usual. I look forward to them. I love how you pull out these great old pieces of stereo “kit” as said in UK?? You seem to have an unlimited supply! Its great. The Rogers sounded heavier in the upper bass and midrange. But, it’s hard to tell much because ultimately it comes through my home AV receiver’s Dac and my Wharfedale speakers. It sounds like slightly different iterations of it.
You make me laugh. I'm into vintage hifi in a very minor way and enjoy listening to how passionate and knowledgeable you are about the subject. Great videos.
Are you not entertained
Kelvin! Just want to say that I'm loving your channel - so much wankery in the 'audiophile' world I've kind of kept my distance, though as a lover of music and vintage hifi I have always appreciated good sound. Anyway, keep up the great vids, love your passion - hifi should be fun and your bringing it to TH-cam =)
Another excellent video think having the sound comparison is the way to go. This was quite revealing even through phone mics and speakers would be interesting to see if you can tell the difference between receivers well done
Yes I actually think it will be more correct and useful to keep one pair of speakers and change amps I think that might work better
Thanks, Nice sound test comparison
I had no idea B&O is almost 100 years old - particularly given the number of brands that disappeared between 1960 and 1990.
Nice 1 Kelvin, that was good. I enjoy your channel. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Very nice revieuw... own a pair years ago........good sound demo...
You should try and get your hands on some Beovox Penta's, I think you'll be blown away. I know I was. Untill now the best speakers I've ever heard, by far. Love your video's, keep it up! and thanks for making them. Nice and relaxed video's.
Wow great sound demo Kelvin, the Rogers like you have always said that midrange is amazing, the overall sound is amazing too, yes the B&O go deeper and also sound great both lovely speakers
Yes, they are both good
Great review no contest there for me the rogers had so much more presence bigger base clear midrange ...
i like the live sound test Kelvin, more please (-:
I so much enjoy this channel.. Switch on the Loudness and the Beovox will transform itself in the Bass department. I know, that means you have to use loudness:-).Greetings from Denmark, Carsten
Interesting demo, amazing what you can get for not much money. Sounded to me like the Rogers were adding some boxiness in the mid bass, whilst the other ones were more effortless, but they had a bit of a ‘bathroom’ treble sound. Very Hard to tell without being in the room though. Really enjoy your presentation, off the cuff and un-edited, keep doing it like that, it’s a breath of fresh air!
Yes I would say you’re describing it pretty dam accurately what seem to go funny in the recording is that nasty Ness in the base on the Rogers which isn’t really there.
Cheers K
Great video! I have a pair of Beovox 3000s (the older 2-way version without the extra tweeter) and really like the sound. But if you want them to sound REALLY good, pair them with a matching 60's amp like Beomaster 1000 and enjoy the rich bass!
I have the same ones without the super tweeter and I paired them with a Musical Fidelity A3 ( 170 Watts in 4 Ohm load) for fun and their performance was surprising and lively. Faster transients. The Beomaster 3000 sounds clogged and dull in comparaison.
I always like a bit of reggae. Nice addition
The magnets on those old Scandinavian drivers were not large but they were Alnico and so generate a much higher magnetic flux than crappy iron ferrite magnets found on cheap speakers.
Yes that makes sense
The Beovox are nice, then the ls3 kick in and the little details are far more obvious, but if it didn't i'd be disappointed. Can't remember the model, but Beovox made a speaker with the same drivers as the Celestion Ditton 66's, sadly, i have never had the pleasure to compare to my beloved 66's, to see what Beovox did with them.
Stick with the 66's, the Beovox version used a smaller bass driver than the 66, though the mid and tweeter were the same, 66's much better.
Great speaker, regards from HiFi Serbia.
Hi very excellent review as always thanks a lot When i see an elliptical driver I wonder what they were thinking
One thing is to be original Another to be weird
These 3000 instead are wonderful
I like the sound demo. I know in theory this should not be useful because of all of the other equipment and encoding in the process, but I really do feel like I can hear something about the character of a speaker, even over a phone!
I like the way Thomas & Stereo used to do his reviews with sound samples. He just released two videos; one with his thoughts and a second follow-up video of just the sound demo.
Thanks. I thought B&O made some really good sounding speakers over the years, which is funny because I was really prejudiced against them, being American and thinking the best speakers were giant and "ugly," the Beovox just didn't look the part to me. Having heard some in the last 35 years, I'm regularly quite impressed with them.
Thanks for the feedback yes I’d say you get to understand certain characteristics but it’s not complete as you say
Cheers K
Thanks for this nice review.
I'm just bay Beovox 3000 type 6220. It is very nice sounding speaker, very warm sound with good bas, completely different from my Canton Karat 30 speaker.
Is it good idea to try this speaker with some vintage Sansui reciver/amp?
You can definitely tell the Rogers is the more expensive speaker smoother and more refined. The other speakers sounded more lively and probably more suited to the reggae you were demo with.
Ls3/5 sounds lovely
Great review. Loved the rendering of midrange by beovox. Rogers sounded good in base region. But my vote for beovox. It must be more transparent and airy.
Yeah That particular speaker is quite a winner it’s very old same Twitter has the scan diner big selling speaker
Accurate or not, the difference between units here is loud and clear! Have you ever considered trying a "binaural head" mic setup in the sweet spot? Also, do you check the crossover components before auditioning? Moreso with speakers older than 25 years to ensure the sound they are making is the sound they are supposed to make. Its been said imaging & mid/hi freq suffer when the axial capacitors in the xover start to dry out, even just slightly. Cheers man, good stuff!
Jacob Jensen, one of the great hifi speaker design pioneers
Yes he does know how to create desire
Good review, more Bass extension on the Rogers ! as far as i could tell. Listening through all that TH-cam compression,not a pretty speaker with the grills off.
It has the same elements as iconic Dynaco a25 plus supertweeter. So that's not surprising..
Thanks Kelvin!
To me the Rogers had a nicer midrange, snappier drums taps etc, but the B&O had crispier high end and deeper low end both to be expected with Super Tweeter and larger driver
Overall all the Rogers are nicer to listen to, but not by much and costing at lest 20x as much, the B&O is exceptional bang for buck, you can't really go wrong, spend the difference on material you can enjoy
Great comparison, not really a fan of them as a lot of things have happened (filters/compression) from song being played to finally us listening at home, but in this case it worked
Keep up the great Vids Kelvin
Good clear sound.
Good to hear!
I like your videos, I can't say what it is, but there's something special about them.
Soundwise the Beo... was smoother and more rounded, while the ls 3/5a had more details but I found it a little less relaxing on that song. BR, Joe
yeah the ba nd o does have that just right feeling which is kind of rare
It sounds like a typical 70s speaker, soft muddy bass missing mids and nice highs.. Sometimes it feels that there is a hole in the sound spectrum. But it's like you said, it depends on the type of music. Today I think we are used to listen to a more analytic sound. Great video, thx.
Maybe the tweeter and the supertweeter of b&w DM4 is worth it just for the highs though?
The review is clear, so are the Beovoxes 3000.
Has there ever been a review om the Quad Electrostatic speaker ?
If not; .............. !
Interesting. The Beovox far more open and airy, where the Rogers sounding very boxy and closed in with an almost oppressive bass-line. Buuuut that same base-line seemed to almost vanish on the Beovox, to the point I'm wondering if the the filter caps need replacing?
Thank you so much for your videos they are great and you really explain things well. I am just getting back into listening to music after taking a long break to raise a family LOL. Have some mid quality stuff in the basement so I am trying to get my listening room back in order. Had a chance to pickup some equipment at my local thrift shop; a pair of 3 way Technics SB-K915 floor speakers (distributed by Panasonic) for $15 or a pair of Sony SS-U460 3way speakers (they wanted $50 but it was on sale for 1/2 price). I know big companies like Sony or not known for great speakers but trying to get back into it w/o spending lot of money. Any thoughts on these speakers ? Are they even worth bringing them home ? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge !
Well I don’t know the model offhand but three-way speakers I personally like because you can always tweak them with positioning you could normally get something good out of them
I liked the way the Beovox created a more open sound, with a better soundstage. They did not quite have the mid range of the rodgers, which was a shame, but the rodgers had fuller frequency spectrum, but in a boxy way.
I'm listening through my Grado GR10e and I have to say:
Beovox are LOVELY - wish you could pair them with a Sugden or Roksan amp to shine.
Edit - the crossover deserves an upgrade after 50 years - it would really open them up.
Yes theSugden would be good for them cheers K
Beovox sounded thinner, terrible way to express sound but it's the best I can describe.
Kelvin, what is the song used in the test? Thanks.
The Rogers sound great.
Hello Kelvin... i like most of your video's , so thank you for that.
Have you ever tried the Beovox S 45 2 ( from the 70's) the S 120 or M70, M75, M100, M150 or MS 150 speakers ?
Would love to hear your opinion on one or more of these.
Greetings from Holland
The LS speakers sounded boxy and hemed in.But the Beovox had i thought a much wider sound stage.More lift on the higher frequencies and more airy.Allround better sound.
Great video...the mid driver looks like the tweeters found in the Dynaco A25...I wonder if they are the same?
I think so
Hi, first ..I have not seen any reviews from you lately...unfortunately! I have to say that all the details about the Beovox 3000 you have mentioned is spot on ....secondly, the 3000 came out as new speakers in 1968 as you mentioned...the bipolar capacitors in the 3000 crossover was made by danish Wicon factory, and they have dried out because of age (the electrolyttic caps are more than 50 years old)......if the Wicon capacitor for the tweeter was 12uF back in 1968 , I have measured the tweeter capacitors to be more than 22uF on the pair I bought, and the sound is wrong compared to the original...just want to say that the Beovox 3000 sound much better with new capacitors.....the woofer needs 50uF / 3R3 Ohm across the terminals. Best regards Kim 🙂
Hey I know I am late to the party because this is older video. I have a chance to buy Beovox 3000 but series 6220 which does not have a super tweeter. Would you still consider it to be a good option if it is 2-way speaker?
The LS3/5A have much more going on rhythmically, with a flatter cohesive sound. Very BBC! However, I’m one for slightly pushed forward mid, so really liked the expansive openness of the B&Os. If I had to choose a pair to live with, however, it would be the LS3/5A, as they get to the heart of the music.
Agreed K
Sounded like the the beovox were losing some of the lower mid range. Nice test - thanks.
yeah pretty true
Anyone else get excited when a new video is posted?
Yes very excited
Thanks for review! I just bought one pair in a two-way version - my conclusions: brilliant in small jazz and rock ensembles, worse in large symphonies: it gets a little messy and the colors of individual instruments blur. The message is very direct and the sound is very tangible. Brilliant bass: punchy and fleshy.
I have a question: it seems that in the two-way version the loudspeaker stood with the woofer on top - why? All the Best!
Thank you, Kelvin.
What would you choose between Beovox 3000 and Beovox s75?
that's really difficult the 3000 so cohesive s 75 is bigger sound K
The amount of loudness from the Rogers surprised me. As did the light base from the beovox. My beovox 3702s (6244) are very base heavy.
Thanks for the feedback much appreciated K
@@stereoreviewx I will have to open them up at some point to check if someone has taken out a lot of the damping material. I may also replace the Philips polydome tweeters with cloth ones, but will have to do some research first.
Do you have an opinion on Celestion Dutton 15 and 25,s.
Good review personally I lived with a pair of beovox 5700 for 20yr formerly owned by Leo sayer at his studio. Wondered if you ever came across them only to say response 20hz-20k they would crush modern 2k£ speakers
Elac guy
Oh wow this is a really great story for me because I have a secret admiration for Leo Sayer and I love the sound of his records
The 5700 no I haven’t heard it I know it sounds great because of the drivers and I like that horizontal orientation always sounds good.
I have a pair of gales that I have to repair which are similar animals.
I can imagine liking the sound of those 5700 speakers and see a link to the sound of Leo sayers records .
Thanks again by the way interesting point you make me feel like dancing that track has Steve Gad on drums.which surprised me
Cheers K
Beovox plus a powered sub would be the best set up. I have 2 Beograms a TX and 8000.
I have 1964 cts driven floor speakers. There is no name. But the inside cab is stamped S.N.I. ? Any thoughts on who SNI is?
B&O sounded better to me but having owned the Rogers in the past I know first hand that they need extremely good amplification to come alive. I was driving them with a good tube pre amp coupled with 125w/ch pure class A SS amp. I still have fond memories of that setup.
Yeah I couldn’t find a nice bit of music with nice mid range on it if I had you would’ve heard the Rogers quality is better
This was my first attempt I’ll find something better next time
They look around the same size as the 3800s which B+O made for British Market only.
Thanks Kelvin I really enjoyed that, been waiting for another video. Interesting. The Beovox had some good high end but the bass sounded limited, I expected more there, would of loved to of been there to have a proper listen. There was a gap in the Beovox sound , the mids but the sound filled the room better.
The Roger's had a better sound , not much missing bar the deep bass, but they sound like a small speaker. Would of been really interesting to of heard both sets of speakers being played at the same time,
Once again thank you for that and please keep the videos coming.
Stu
Hi Kelvin.
First of all, thanks for your reviews and you comments about vintage speakers.
A friend gave me an old and beautiful B & O Beovox 3000 speakers from 1970, (the ones with woofer and tweeter, no supertweeter).
There is no sound, but the drivers are in good condition.¿How can i open the cabinet?? since i don´t see any screws in the back....thanks in advance
Yes you have to lay on his back and lift out the bass driver
Thank you very much!!
yes that's a good tweeter I did a lot of work on that tweeter you can get it to sound really nice at the top end very simply, yes it is one of the best tweeters in the world with my modification. upgrading the crossover would be good as well I used a fourth order on the tweeter I had set of Sony MTM with the same drivers.
You should get yourself an active crossover unit Nelson pass mates one for about $130 design by linkwitz does 4-way speaker and open battle as well DSP or ASP go Waze with the asp it's the way to go and will make such a big improvement on any speaker modern or old and much better than any passive crossover.
Thanks great information cheers K
The B&O speakers sound waaaaaaaaaay better. They are clear and airy while the LS35a is tubby and muffled.
I kind of wanted more technical details (picture of crossover?). Appreciate the verbiage and sound samples though. Lookin online this speaker model seems to have multiple personalities with two 3 way designs (one has 2 tweeters, the other only 1) and one 2 way!!
Perfect✌✌✌✌✌✌
I agree, closed box better impulse, i prefered the beovox to the rogers , more open mid , crispier, i have the same experience here , altec model3 ticonal paper 10inch with cone tweeter, plays more clear and detailed and more musical then the bbc monitor kef p60 !!! Which costed in '90ies 3000 euro with quad pro amp, your test is amazing good quality,bi knew immediatly which one was playing, i recon paper and bextrene or polypro sound coloration ...lampizator also concluded that the old vintage alnico and ticonal with papercone are the best way to go, will test more , also old hawley papercones have amazing musicality, musicians know this , and distortion tests showed alnico better performing less harmonic 2 distortion then ferrit, also neodym is very performing
Great information my friend thanks.
Yes beovox have very surprisingly good cohesive presentation btw I’m not sure that comes across with that music but they does have that.
You know sometimes I wonder whether any progress has been made from say the 70s onwards.
Again for your highly knowledgeable feedback cheers K
Look similar to the drivers commonly found in Dynaco speakers with an added super tweeter. Both made in Denmark. Scanspeak or Seas made their drivers.
You’re right
Hi ! the sound is very nice. Only i do not understand why a cone tweeter above a dome mid Strange
Usually i have seen the contrary with a cone mid and a dome tweeter
Surprisingly the beovox sound thinner compared to the smaller rogers, or was it because the rogers are more refined? Anyway more sound demos please.
Yes these recordings just aren’t perfect you know certain qualities were exaggerated not sure how that happens
I'm listening two main things.
In the bass department the Rogers seem to show a little swelling around the lower mid-range (their resonance frequency?) But knowing nothing about the specific track I can't tell if it is normal or not and given the genre could very well be a little bass heavy. If that is case then are the Beovox to be a little shy in that area.
Either cases I like the Beovox better for the lower regions, some more extension, more definition, I follow the bass guitar better and it is more enjoyable.
Secondly the upper mid-ranges.
Definitely Rogers, the Beovox came out rough here, where is the reverb on the voice's delay?
It almost disappeared.
Overall I could easily jump to the conclusion that I don't like either pairs but truth is I don't know.
How could, for example, have reacted under the same conditions my Imperial speakers?
How much better or worse could have sounded undergoing the same punishing chain made of room, phone's mic, micro analog pre/adc/codec, various digital algorithms, etc ... and we're just barely off the recording phone.
Difficult to say.
Hi my friend I’ve got a compliment you on your analysis which is pretty spot on,
The beovox are a little shy in the base .
The Rogers I’ll probably better than you can perceive on this song because it didn’t have enough mid-range activity in it which is where the Rogers are best.
Thanks very much for the feedback really interesting to know what people can hear once it’s been through this whole system cheers K
Not watched the whole video yet but it's worth replacing the internal x-over capacitors(like for like) should be easy to do unless the caps have no markings but that's unlikely.Will help with the sound a bit.
Considering the size difference the LS35A wins in every way. The B & O sound like, well B & O Hollow, no real bass extension. That cheap and tasty paper tweeter, rolls at 16khz, THAT needs a real super tweeter above it.
Fair enough!
Obvious old school colorations with the BEO ! Nice to hear anyway.
Btw the LS sound a bit boxy for today's hears in this setup, the BEO less.
Speakers in between speakers can be pretty damaging... may be the case here ?
Hi Kelv. What was the name of the track you played?
can't remember its a TH-cam one no copywriter issues
@@stereoreviewx No problem. Kevin from Ditton Works messaged me last night with the link. Cheers
lost the mids on the beovox, great tightness on the rogers.the highs on beovox were great but it lacked "happy power"
Happy power I like the sound of that I’m not quite sure what it is
Any thoughts on old speakers with dried up ferro fluid in the tweeter . Fact of fiction. I've read that tweeters need this service after 10 or 15 years. Like the demo at the end & even though on utube I could tell the difference.
My understanding is ferrofluid in tweeters was a design error basically it goes hard after 10 or 15 years and you have to change it there to be avoided or changed or fixed .
I think Kef The 80s were big users of ferrofluid tweeters Not sure what other companies made this mistake
@@stereoreviewx really chuffed that you have took the time to reply ! Luv your channel & the reviews you do. Always look forward to the next upload. I've also been watching uploads about room acoustics which is interesting & how it makes big differences to sound. Luv all that is hifi. Take care speak soon.
I can buy a set of boevox p30 speakers voor 95 euros. Is it a good deal? What is thou sound signature? I dont like a base heavy sound . I need a balanced sound.
Well I would say they’re pleasant sounding not bass light but not big soundstage watch out for foam rot on the base drivers though
I prefer the sound of the Rogers LS 35a. The bass in particular is much more extended with a smooth midrange and nicer top end.
Hello,
For sure, it's difficult to appreciate the character of some speakers by listening a recording on youtube.
However, I would say that Rogers have a stronger, better defined, more focused, tighter bass.
B&O have a more diffuse, less defined, loose bass.
Also Rogers keep up the pace better than B&O, they have a better sense of rhythm.
Maybe, in the midrange frequencies area, B&O could surpass Rogers, but it’s hard to tell by listening only this song.
My wild guess is B&O might have better midrange than Rogers in terms of harmonics richness and nuances. B&O might reproduce the human voice more natural, more pleasant, and warmer.
This song clearly favours Rogers speakers, it has a lot of bass, a lot of rhythm and not much going on in the midrange. An acoustic recording would have been more appropriate for B&O.
Moreover, I think the system also benefits Rogers speakers. I imagine that B&O speakers would be better suited to a European amplifier from the late 60's, early 70's, an amplifier that put more weight on lower frequencies. Also, a turntable will make a better source for these B&O.
So … I don’t know, you tell me! :)
I guess they dound alright if you like to listen to your music flat, but for me, I like to have a bit more bass.
In old speaker design, I often prefer 2-way systems. Less phase distortion, less fuzzy sound, they simply sounds more "right" like a good pair of headphones. That's true here too.
My favorite vintage B&O speaker is the M-100, I did have a pair of those, and allthough these are 4-way (+a filler driver above the 12" bass unit) they sound amazing - like the best two way systems, but with good deep bass and very fine treble from the upper tweeter unit!
Thank you for letting us listen to those two interesting pairs!
I have searched Beovox 3000 is no super tweeter on top, but the one you shown us has that......?
Yes what it seems is that they just put the supertweeter on kept the number the same which is let’s say unusual
The BeO3000 sounds much better! Clear sound. The Ls35a sounds like their are in a different room (really bad)!
Well you can save yourself about £1500 and buy the b&o then.
Despite my adoration of all things Beo, My ears said the Rogers created better definition and openness, with a bass track pulling the hat trick: fooled me into thinking I was at a prime small venue, right up front!
P.S. Who is that band/track?
Yes those B and O‘s are surprisingly good though I don’t think the recording and processing through TH-cam ended up very accurate I think it diminish the Rogers a bit
In the room three Rogers win much better than the recording
The Rogers sound ace are you selling them
Probably the one Speaker I’m really not gonna sell
SEAS H087 Tweeter? 🧐
If sound were money there is not that greater deal of difference between the two on this test, But it seems that in the high end hi-fi world a little better means a lot of money.
You’re certainly not wrong there. You can spend thousands and thousands for a small improvement. I speak from experience lol. Think I’m done trying to “upgrade” now.
@@jasonahdjfhsdfg I'm always telling myself the same thing, yet I still always seem to continue searching and that can only lead to one thing. UPGRADE. Very similar to impulsive gambling or alcoholism, it's an addiction.
@@tomhamilton6377 haha yes it certainly is, after my last purchase of a new solid state pre amp to change from my valve pre amp, I actually preferred my valve pre and haven’t really used my solid state one much. I think I’m done now. Fed up of wasting money haha. Having said that I’m always looking at new (vintage) speakers. I do love the different sound you get from different speakers. Ahh it’s never ending haha.
I find the Rogers sound more honest and more detailed than the Beoleb, it's just more focused. The Beolab makes more color ... but it's too much. Similar to when you turn up the color too far on old tube TVs. Furthermore, it sounded as if the phase in one of the boxes in the Beo could have been lost (?).
what amp are you using?
I can’t remember probably Sansui 317
Better sound all around, with the Beovox 3000
Old can be good. My home made speakers are now 43 years old. imgur.com/a/VIARZn5 I did have to rebuild the woofers at one point, due to the outer rubber rings were turning into dust.
Listening on sht pc speakers ... so my take may be complete bllx. The b and o appeared to be weak on bass but felt like it had much broader range... the high stuff appeared brighter.. perhaps because the other speakers were focusing on the bass of this particular track. If you really like thumping bass the b and o wouldn't do it for you without pumping it up.... but I think there was more "warmth " from the b and o
Truly, either time is coming out of your speakers and it’s gone through the TH-cam compression business. Things do change a fair bit
Amazing video but none of the speakers have real bass. I listen in AKG K 273 Pro headphones and a very good small DAC/amp Denon DA10 and my system got plenty of good controlled bass. In some other video clips on youtube, there is a good bass sound but maybe they use a better mic to record the sound.
One thing I can say is that I found the recording process and how it came out really quite surprising and hard to articulate actually
Its Jakaranda
Far better sound from the Beovox, much more open and "airy"! The Rogers sounded to me as if they were inside a pressure cooker, not for me. Maybe a little lacking bass from the Beovox but it can be resolved without too much of a problem.
Next time I’ll put more mid-range instruments through the Rogers that’s where they do excel
bass on the rogers sounds like it's trying to punch it's way out of the little box, very restricted. beovox bass more natural, they have a nicer open soundstage too
The bow vox is kind of better in the base
But truly the Rogers are so good in the mid band but I didn’t I wasn’t able to finder a nice bit of music with a lot of mid range your voices on it that was copyright free