Had 3 of the Wagner/ John Deere. They were wa 14 stickers but running gear was wa 17. The truth was John Deere was in a patent infringement lawsuit ongoing and rather than pay out they bought Wagner. They just painted them green and two years later they orphaned Wagner. These were the very first tractors that we installed triples on. Everyone thought we were nuts at the time. Decent long life machines but were soon underpowered by 1973. Repowered easily. Dave Curtis was a long-standing Wagner dealer and knew where almost every Wagner in western USA and Canada was. He eventually squired the patent on the drop box after John Deere dropped Wagner and went on to produce his own tractors under the name Rite by Curtis. Great tractors from 450 -750 hp. You speced the engine and transmission and differentials, he used commercial shearing hydraulic components and they were a remarkable tractor in the day. Big cab, proper weight distribution, good hydraulics. You could work on them far easier than the other brands. Versatile Vice Presidents rose with me in my Rite and were astounded at the quality and performance, they were in test mode of the 1176 tractor at the time and were highly impressed. I owned a total of 8 Rites before I quit farming and am sure almost every one is still operating. Easy to rebuild and maintain. Curtis rebuilt many Wagners and repowered most all. The Cummins was first choice with a few cat engines and some Detroit 92 series in several. The Detroit engine didn’t have the torque and used 40 percent more fuel than the big 1150 k19 Cummins. Noisy as well.
Great video! Very impressive tractor. It was roaring pretty well at the start of its run. Seemed to burn the fuel pretty cleanly. Not a lot of black smoke even under strain. Very cool tractor!
Really great to see this John Deere working.Even at the fairly modest Horse power for modern days equipment it’s taking the plough very well.Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad you filmed this one B.T.P.,these are pretty rare,I'm not sure if the bigger brother WA-17 is even more rare or not,but at 225 hp.it was pulling the 12 bottom in good shape and I'm sure it's bigger brother at 280hp.could pull a 16 bottom without issue. So this means your 4786 I.H.can handle a 16 bottom without issue,because it has 350hp.. I was guessing it takes about 15 hp.per blade.
4 gauge these came out with 250 hp Cummins that were readily converted to 290. They called it a smoke kit, just bolted on the turbo and ran a couple of oil lines, redid exhaust elbow. Did 3 of them right after we took delivery of them.
Very interesting how these early 4WDs often used truck transmissions like the 10 speed. Also pretty cool how JD articulated 4WDs started with the WAs powered by Cummins and now the biggest Deere 4WDs are Cummins powered again.
I know when I was a younger man there was a farmer that had one in Garden Prairie Illinois I think it was a w a 17 he had a custom-made plow for it it was pretty awesome to see I don't know what happened to it but he did have it for quite some time and as usual an awesome video
That's great to hear Brent we farm between Garden Prairie & Belvidere, Il. Nice to hear you say that! Seen alot of the early Stiegers around the area but don't remember any Wagners? Anyway be well. Ron
Awesome looking beast of it's time. I have to agree with others, it does tend to resemble the Big Bud tractors. Looked pretty impressive pulling that plow setup. Stay safe.
The Wagner dealer in Havre MT Willie Hensler and his head mechanic Big Bud Nelson designed the Big Buds . The first models were HN (Hensler/Nelson) 250, 320 or whatever horsepower each one had.
Wow that’s a certainly unique John Deere for sure ! But with that classic Cummins DP under the hood just another fine example of Nothing Runs Like A Deere ! ! ! 👍🤠👌
My first thought was it looks like a gen1 big bud. It does because gen1 big buds were essentially Wagners. He said this was turbo charged so it was somewhere between 300 and 400 hp. He wouldn’t have pulled those plows like that with 225hp. Nice video
I remember setting in a WA-17 at Weaks Martin Implement Company, the John Deere dealer at Mission, TX in 1970-1971. I also remember seeing another John Deere Wagner WA Series near Richland, WA.
Truly amazing tractor I was under the understanding that John Deere made that designed for the military Every labor day weekend we have the Rock River thresheree in Edgerton Wisconsin there is a lot of unique tracker to show up there I I've been going there almost all of my 50 years
William Keehn a lot of the military equipment was made by Clark equipment and they were stout machines. Many were used by army engineers corp for earthmovers and dozers. Most had Cummins 855 cid engines that ranged from 290-400 hp. Lots ended up in surplus yards with the one in Great Falls Montana seeing a lot of them , people would buy them and repower and change up quite a bit on them. Had great axles on them that were tough as heck but had a brake system that could be problematic. Used a bladder inside the drum to forces out about 12 pads/ shoes , if the operator left the brake lock on it obviously would smoke the brakes and resulted in the bladder possibly ruptured.
That tractor is in excellent condition for its age. I remember the JD ads in the Western Producer magazine showing this tractor. I'm shocked that it handles 12 bottoms the way it does. That's a big plow in today's scene. Although it is 16" bottoms. It likely wouldn't pull 12 x 18" as well. I had a new 1982 Allis Chalmers 8550 rated at 305 engine hp and it couldn't handle a Melroe 12 x18" plow. So I realize just how hard it is to pull them things.
Yes, but this tractor has a Cummins 855 detuned to 225hp. That engine is capable of over 400hp. This tractor could have easily been tuned up for more horsepower, and if it wasn't it still has plenty of torque.
Ron Meier Not true Wagner continued to build log equipment after John Deere’s contract said that they couldn’t build tractors anymore. Northern manufacturing co built big buds in Montana, no connection to Wagner that I can find. Wagner is still in business and owned by Allied systems Company in the Portland area.
Greg Hutchinson you are correct, I made several trips to Havre to view units under rebuild and new units. There was a triple earthmoving setup that was built for stripping overburden that had big bud designed to pull them. They loaded the rear scraper first and moved forward to finish loading, each unit was 16 foot wide and had over 30 cubic yard capacity. Full heaped load of 100 yards. Utilized a cotta 2 speed drop box and a six speed automatic transmission. Had k19 Cummins that was pumped to around 700 hp.
@@Johndeere42302008 Northern Mfg was founded by Willie Hensler- owner and Bud Nelson -mechanic, a Wagner dealership left with no tractors to sell after the JD/Wagner deal. So they built their Big Buds fashioned after the Wagner's with some improvements. Series One Big Buds were HN 250,HN 320 etc .( Hensler/Nelson.) None of the Wagner family was involved. The Welkers from Montana (TH-cam) have a very early Bud, their grandma says # 3 off the line, doesn't even have a serial number. They pulled an air seeder with yet until last year. Had it on the land roller this spring.
It would have been cool to see the cab. Unfortunately this was a one run and done filming session. I had to sprint after it passed me to get a second head-on clip as it reached the headland.
Sir These rural shows really give an essence of the soul of rural America. Hearing the announcer in the background is really special.. Keep up the good work BTP 👍👍
That is one impressive tractor! I got the privilege to see it plowing in person at Tom's home farm in Belleville IL last September. Here is the link to the video I put together: th-cam.com/video/lo25M_Q-Uo8/w-d-xo.html
Big bud tractors were similar but not Wagner produced. They were manufactured in Havre Montana. I spent several days there over the years. Great machines as well. Wagner was in mining and forestry as well as construction road equipment for years before they branched out into the agricultural side in the mid sixties.
@@ricknelson7824 i know but the creator of big bud owned a wagner dealer and after shuting down he made his own company called big bud hence it led to big bud
i personality meet the son of the wanger that was building them before the contract come alone. he was 8 years old when his dad pass away. that was near when the john had trouble with patent infringement lawsuit started coming in place. they have one in rollag wmstr (western Minnesota stream threshers reunion). that one is still wanger on the side of it.
Had 3 of the Wagner/ John Deere. They were wa 14 stickers but running gear was wa 17. The truth was John Deere was in a patent infringement lawsuit ongoing and rather than pay out they bought Wagner. They just painted them green and two years later they orphaned Wagner. These were the very first tractors that we installed triples on. Everyone thought we were nuts at the time. Decent long life machines but were soon underpowered by 1973. Repowered easily. Dave Curtis was a long-standing Wagner dealer and knew where almost every Wagner in western USA and Canada was. He eventually squired the patent on the drop box after John Deere dropped Wagner and went on to produce his own tractors under the name Rite by Curtis. Great tractors from 450 -750 hp. You speced the engine and transmission and differentials, he used commercial shearing hydraulic components and they were a remarkable tractor in the day. Big cab, proper weight distribution, good hydraulics. You could work on them far easier than the other brands. Versatile Vice Presidents rose with me in my Rite and were astounded at the quality and performance, they were in test mode of the 1176 tractor at the time and were highly impressed. I owned a total of 8 Rites before I quit farming and am sure almost every one is still operating. Easy to rebuild and maintain. Curtis rebuilt many Wagners and repowered most all. The Cummins was first choice with a few cat engines and some Detroit 92 series in several. The Detroit engine didn’t have the torque and used 40 percent more fuel than the big 1150 k19 Cummins. Noisy as well.
There were just over 30 wa-14s produced. And you were correct 28 17s. I've chisel plowed lost of acres with both a 14 and 17. Loved every minute
Great to see this very RARE tractor saved and brought back to new condition!
Great video! Very impressive tractor. It was roaring pretty well at the start of its run. Seemed to burn the fuel pretty cleanly. Not a lot of black smoke even under strain. Very cool tractor!
Nothing like an old tractor under load! Nice Tractor and thanks.
Really great to see this John Deere working.Even at the fairly modest Horse power for modern days equipment it’s taking the plough very well.Thanks for sharing.
The torque rating is huge I'm sure with an 855CI Turbo-ed Engine.
I'm glad you filmed this one B.T.P.,these are pretty rare,I'm not sure if the bigger brother WA-17 is even more rare or not,but at 225 hp.it was pulling the 12 bottom in good shape and I'm sure it's bigger brother at 280hp.could pull a 16 bottom without issue.
So this means your 4786 I.H.can handle a 16 bottom without issue,because it has 350hp..
I was guessing it takes about 15 hp.per blade.
4 gauge these came out with 250 hp Cummins that were readily converted to 290. They called it a smoke kit, just bolted on the turbo and ran a couple of oil lines, redid exhaust elbow. Did 3 of them right after we took delivery of them.
@@ricknelson7824 Very cool.
Very interesting how these early 4WDs often used truck transmissions like the 10 speed. Also pretty cool how JD articulated 4WDs started with the WAs powered by Cummins and now the biggest Deere 4WDs are Cummins powered again.
A testament to Cummins reliability..
Considered a monster in it's era. Looks like a Big Brute. Wagner did a fine job🚜👍
I know when I was a younger man there was a farmer that had one in Garden Prairie Illinois I think it was a w a 17 he had a custom-made plow for it it was pretty awesome to see I don't know what happened to it but he did have it for quite some time and as usual an awesome video
That's great to hear Brent we farm between Garden Prairie & Belvidere, Il. Nice to hear you say that! Seen alot of the early Stiegers around the area but don't remember any Wagners? Anyway be well.
Ron
this man has a huge collection of about every thing farm ..home stead related .very enjoyable to watch
Awesome looking beast of it's time. I have to agree with others, it does tend to resemble the Big Bud tractors. Looked pretty impressive pulling that plow setup. Stay safe.
Probably because the gentlemen that started Big Bud owned a Wagner dealership before Wagner went belly up.
They didn't waste any time. They had couple done by the end of 1969.
Sounds amazing. Looked a little like a big bud, maybe the same era? Very nice indeed. Thankyou.
Since you said something, it does look like a Big Bud!
Wagner basically turned into Big Bud after Deere screwed them over in the 70's and went belly up.
c0untryf1sh3r, OMG, I never knew that. Totally explains the design. Thankyou. 👍👍
The big bud was made because Wagner went out of business and the farmers needed a big tractor so big bud was made
The Wagner dealer in Havre MT Willie Hensler and his head mechanic Big Bud Nelson designed the Big Buds . The first models were HN (Hensler/Nelson) 250, 320 or whatever horsepower each one had.
The love child of big bud and John Deere
No, love child of Wagner and Deere. Wagner was around before Big Bud.
But there’s are different models of the big bud
wow that looks like some hard ground
Wow what a find! Great job BTP!
Wow that’s a certainly unique John Deere for sure ! But with that classic Cummins DP under the hood just another fine example of Nothing Runs Like A Deere ! ! ! 👍🤠👌
Nothing runs like a Cummins powered Wagner
RJ 1999 Amen man ain’t that the truth ! ! ! 👍
Heck yeah, that thing is awesome!
Great tractor! At the begining it seemed to be strugling a little, but then it took really well these tandem of plows
Love those cab designs! Looks like the top of an air traffic control tower 🙂
My first thought was it looks like a gen1 big bud. It does because gen1 big buds were essentially Wagners. He said this was turbo charged so it was somewhere between 300 and 400 hp. He wouldn’t have pulled those plows like that with 225hp. Nice video
Super cool ol tractor! It looks and sounds great! Thank you for sharing.
The WA is a neat 4wd.
Great reporting. Thank you.
Great video! Never seen one of them old John Deere. Thanks for sharing.
I remember setting in a WA-17 at Weaks Martin Implement Company, the John Deere dealer at Mission, TX in 1970-1971. I also remember seeing another John Deere Wagner WA Series near Richland, WA.
That was very very interesting to hear about and to see thanks for sharing
Looks like the ground is pretty hard packed and he didn't have the plow set shallow. Defiantly working it!
Truly amazing tractor
I was under the understanding that John Deere made that designed for the military
Every labor day weekend we have the Rock River thresheree in Edgerton Wisconsin there is a lot of unique tracker to show up there I I've been going there almost all of my 50 years
William Keehn a lot of the military equipment was made by Clark equipment and they were stout machines. Many were used by army engineers corp for earthmovers and dozers. Most had Cummins 855 cid engines that ranged from 290-400 hp. Lots ended up in surplus yards with the one in Great Falls Montana seeing a lot of them , people would buy them and repower and change up quite a bit on them. Had great axles on them that were tough as heck but had a brake system that could be problematic. Used a bladder inside the drum to forces out about 12 pads/ shoes , if the operator left the brake lock on it obviously would smoke the brakes and resulted in the bladder possibly ruptured.
Thanks, Jason. I've never heard of the WA tractors.
That tractor is in excellent condition for its age. I remember the JD ads in the Western Producer magazine showing this tractor. I'm shocked that it handles 12 bottoms the way it does. That's a big plow in today's scene. Although it is 16" bottoms. It likely wouldn't pull 12 x 18" as well. I had a new 1982 Allis Chalmers 8550 rated at 305 engine hp and it couldn't handle a Melroe 12 x18" plow. So I realize just how hard it is to pull them things.
Yes, but this tractor has a Cummins 855 detuned to 225hp. That engine is capable of over 400hp. This tractor could have easily been tuned up for more horsepower, and if it wasn't it still has plenty of torque.
@@nitram148, Torque is what twists the wheels !!
Great video!! I wish to drive a big old tractor like this one
Thanks BTP !
Wow, what a treat.
Very cool setup !
Very. Awesome. To. See
Thank you for watching.
Very nice thanks for the stream
It was brand new 50 years ago huh... I was brand new 50 years ago. You're making me feel old!
I am 7 years behind you. I know what you mean.
bigtractorpower I’m 11 years ahead of him so I really know how he feels.😁
Great video! Thanks
Thank you for watching.
10/10 good friend.
Sweet sound
Bet there is no fancy pancy lcd screens in that (-: good honest sweat and skill working that beast ,thanks for sharing this
All iron plowing with this tractor. 1969 high horsepower at its best.
Awesome! Hope to make it to Rantoul and see it in person!
It would be a great addition for my collection
Same
Sooooo cooooooooolll!!!
Fantastic tractor and plows, amazing how a under 300hp pull that plows through soil that looks very hard,
It is neat to see a 225 hp tractor work ground like this.
A crap load of torque !
@@bigtractorpower He said it had a turbo on it, so it would be the same as the WA 17 more like 280+ hp.
Love that love it
The WA 4wds are cool looking classics.
What a beautiful piece of equipment
I like the wa 14 4wd john deere
Cummins 855 = best sounding engine in a farm tractor.
Yes wagners went on to make n produce Big Bud tractors hence the reason they look so similar!!
Ron Meier Not true Wagner continued to build log equipment after John Deere’s contract said that they couldn’t build tractors anymore. Northern manufacturing co built big buds in Montana, no connection to Wagner that I can find. Wagner is still in business and owned by Allied systems Company in the Portland area.
Greg Hutchinson you are correct, I made several trips to Havre to view units under rebuild and new units. There was a triple earthmoving setup that was built for stripping overburden that had big bud designed to pull them. They loaded the rear scraper first and moved forward to finish loading, each unit was 16 foot wide and had over 30 cubic yard capacity. Full heaped load of 100 yards. Utilized a cotta 2 speed drop box and a six speed automatic transmission. Had k19 Cummins that was pumped to around 700 hp.
@@Johndeere42302008 Northern Mfg was founded by Willie Hensler- owner and Bud Nelson -mechanic, a Wagner dealership left with no tractors to sell after the JD/Wagner deal. So they built their Big Buds fashioned after the Wagner's with some improvements. Series One Big Buds were HN 250,HN 320 etc .( Hensler/Nelson.) None of the Wagner family was involved. The Welkers from Montana (TH-cam) have a very early Bud, their grandma says # 3 off the line, doesn't even have a serial number. They pulled an air seeder with yet until last year. Had it on the land roller this spring.
Pity you didn't get a spin in the cab BTP.
Great video as usual 👍👍
It would have been cool to see the cab. Unfortunately this was a one run and done filming session. I had to sprint after it passed me to get a second head-on clip as it reached the headland.
Sir
These rural shows really give an essence of the soul of rural America.
Hearing the announcer in the background is really special..
Keep up the good work BTP 👍👍
That is one sweet Deere wow
It is one of the greats.
You should come to Ohio and see the farm science review in London i believe its September 17-19th
That is one impressive tractor! I got the privilege to see it plowing in person at Tom's home farm in Belleville IL last September.
Here is the link to the video I put together:
th-cam.com/video/lo25M_Q-Uo8/w-d-xo.html
that and the WA-17 are my fav tractors ever built sad jd killed wagner but it did lead to big bud
Big bud tractors were similar but not Wagner produced. They were manufactured in Havre Montana. I spent several days there over the years. Great machines as well. Wagner was in mining and forestry as well as construction road equipment for years before they branched out into the agricultural side in the mid sixties.
@@ricknelson7824 i know but the creator of big bud owned a wagner dealer and after shuting down he made his own company called big bud hence it led to big bud
nice
There was one like that around Cresent city illinois. Nice old iron
That
That was Darrell fischers
That's the guy , could not remember his name. Been a few years. Don't live around there anymore
I do work for a gentlemen who has 1 WA 14 and 2 or 3 WA17
Very cool. Are you in California by chance?
that was some hard a$$ ground he was pulling threw right there you could clearly see the wheel slip big time
matt phillips tires were not the best either.
He had the plow in the ground too.
@@lfeco no he didn't, notice the tail wheel and the tire depth he's not very deep
Reminds me of the Bug Bud
Big Bud
i personality meet the son of the wanger that was building them before the contract come alone. he was 8 years old when his dad pass away. that was near when the john had trouble with patent infringement lawsuit started coming in place. they have one in rollag wmstr (western Minnesota stream threshers reunion). that one is still wanger on the side of it.
Wow that is very exciting. Wagner was the pioneer of articulated 4wd tractors.
👍👍
JHON DEERE é top
Where can you find drawings or measurements of these? I'd like to make a 1/25 model of these and the Buds, but can't any info like that.
Would like to see one work in some ground that is not beat down !
Krásny stroj...!!!😅😅😅
Talking about my home state ORE-GUN 😉😉
Thank you. You learn something new each day. I will remember the pronunciation for the future.
At the end what was following the WA?
Much prefer this to the Jd tractors that replaced it
Its John Deers answer to Soviets Kirovec K-700
Only 23 made? Is it kind of rare?
Yes it is.
Beautiful machine, but isn't the drawbar on the ploughs very very weak?
It sure looks it but it must be ok ?
Thats not alredy true i saw a WA-17 in redlake falls in 2002 working in the fields 👍
Nearly 20 years ago,but still really cool.😎👍
@@RB-gk1fi Neither will it's bigger brother,the 1586.(180 hp.)
@@4gauge10 that's for shure. But old is gold 👍👍
Does anyone know if any made it to Europe?
First, I am back
Welcome back. As always thank you for your enthusiasm.
Thank you I will Watch more of your videos:)
Way way too much load I believe. Big plough + hard soil ... you can really hear the engine bog down
jazko 😊👍
jazko tractor love to be loaded. They run better that way. More fuel more power.
Oregon is pronounced Or-e-gun
hard dry land?
Nothing for an Allis Chalmers
@@RJ1999x No sir. Gotta love Orange!
I'm ready to pay 100k euros for that tractor and not a euro more
I wonder if John Deere got the patent for Building their own
No these WA 4wds were outsourced. The 7020 was in development while the WA 4wds were being sold at dealers.
@@bigtractorpower Okay Thanks for sharing
What happened to Tom’s thumb?
Farming a tough sport, a lot of dangerous areas to get caught.
Yes...well aware from experience. Was curious if big tractor power knew or not...
@@stevenpayne3707, My bad. That would be a pretty awkward question to ask though, right ?
No, not really...”hey Tom, what happened to your thumb?”...🤷♂️
Big Bud with Deere Logo
It’s a Wagner with a Deere logo.
The first Big Buds were built the year after the JD/Wagner deal by a Wagner dealer who now had no big tractors to sell.
$35 grand new... could you put all new rubber on it for that now?
It’s amazing at how things have changed. Good investment to buy a tractor 50 years ago for $35K that now sells for $80K.
By bar tiger
Doing a great job on that hard ground 👍
What about FWA JD 60 that was following the WA 14??? That’s is what I wanna see??? We are coming all the way from Virginia!!❣️😊
id like to see that as well..
Yeah, we have some great tractors here in Virginia