Jake. I'm really enjoying this saga. I have a degree in electronics. What a flashback. You need more subscribers. Awesome thought process. I'm a Indiana Certified Emissions Repair Technician. John Thornton taught several classes in my Certifications Class. As a matter of fact,he'll be here at our training night September 18th in Crown Point, Indiana
"Voltage divider", close enough. And the temp sensor will be an NTC (negative temperature coefficient) thermistor, meaning resistance decreases as temperature increases. As opposed to a PTC (positive temp. coeff.) sensor, which has increasing resistance for increasing temp. And yes, you are probably correct about "AD" meaning analog-digital converter.
I concur, this car is too new with little to no body damage to have this many bad modules and I bet there are more yet to be discovered... Another Great Video!
Good thought process, Jake! Yep, you may be right - this may be the result of a lightning strike, and the parts tab just went way up. Very sad for customer.
I think you misread the service info re the temp sensor. The normal condition it was speaking about, was for the reading to equal the actual ambient temp. So in the flow chart you needed to go to NG rather than OK.
I was thinking the same thing. The -9 to 150 was showing what the normal range for the sensor to show but that the sensor should read what the actual ambient temperature is.
Just a theory , if you load the signal wire going the PCM with test light , data display should show duty cycle on the alternator and that can verify if the alternator or PCM is bad .
I have been a Toyota master tech for 13 years now, and I have never fixed a car with an A/C amplifier. The service manual often says install a known good part or replace part, and if the problem persists, replace this other part.....
Some scanner data like this, will not show -40 for certain PIDS nor will not show the actual, it is simply designed to show a minimum of a value, default value, for trained Toyota Techs to get a quick clue as to the problem based on this feedback, Honda has some of these clues built into their diagnostics also to lead the tech in a quick direction. There are other AAT cases where the scanner will show one temp and the cluster or the radio screen will show another temp, this is a clue that depending on the circuit in series or in parallel, what is the possible problem. If in series like to a radio screen and the temps do not match, then maybe there is added resistance in the circuit (corrosion) between the ECM and screen, or in parallel going via COMM through a readout at the cluster that the cluster is bad and the COMM to the scanner is good (if temp is good on scanner) as another scenario. Your UNPLUGIT test & BYPASS test & Rheostat test (FIXED ITSELF?) did not make any change to the PIDs, but the BYPASS test showed that the 5VRef is a BIAS voltage and cannot carry a load as part of a voltage divider circuit so the circuit integrity is good. There might be an AAT voltage to resistance to temp GRAPH in Service Info that might tell us what resistance will get us to 80*F and is this resistance inversely proportional as suspected?? YES IT IS. Was the HVAC asleep before cycling the key?? When did you clear codes, sorry if I missed that?? What a way to get the car to the Dealer to fix the AC due to an intermittent AAT code shutting it down OMG. I may have mentioned to you before that we all need to keep LIN waveforms for each LIN Component as we can see and translate the HEADER of a LIN component to see if it is talking or pulling down or shorted or missing, etc. The LIN HEADER is probably less than the first 10 square waves and we can read it with a known good waveform in our Library, we cannot read the actual COMM PACKETS. Wrong part number alternators are the #1 problem in the field speaking the wrong LIN HEADER Signature, this is why we require a known good waveform library, easy to compare signatures. DAMN, problems keep rolling in, maybe you should look at the radio antenna lead to see it the radio is fried OMG? John Thornton for those who want to watch a free version and more around GOOFLE to teach you what is needed, Master & Slave also, th-cam.com/video/mX8L47ZSA-4/w-d-xo.html
wow the car that keeps giving . very interesting with that lin indeed . surely a lighting strike or some new fangled emp strike the local kids are experimenting with 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 temp sensor is definitely an odd one . i have seen them before that i have unplugged checked it out plugged it back in drive cycle and it started working never to fail again or a least i could not get it to fail with numerous sleeps and drive cycles . man i can’t tell you how lucky i am i work in a plant so back to back tests have saved my ass many times 🤪🤪🤪 but has also burned me on occasions when it’s a common hardware or batch fault
That's the problem with all manufactures. They do not provide known good signals and voltages. With out that information one cannot determine if the circuit is working correctly or not. Manufactures are just killing themselves off.
I always watch sensor voltage as actual AAT is often calculated and many criteria has to be met before recalculating. But sometimes voltage PIDs aren't there and that sucks.
the problem with the ohm meter is you have no idea what in that pcm has parallel circuitry that will give you a reading. its ok to check wiring but hooked to any modules big nope
29:10 Oooo, lucky for you! Your life is not boring with this kind of services... Joke a side, this kind of mistake/problemsls are very very hard to find and working within, it's multilayerd also very complicated, sometimes depends and affects one on other and you must have veryyyyyy good amount of time, knowledge and tools to handle it.
Like I commend last time, I have seen this before you are going to need a test car do not remove components of the test car and try on the good one try the suspect components ond the good car there is safeguards build into to prevent more damage. Good luck 👍
Imagine that "the front collision" cause the temp sensor short circuit. That took out the ECM which caused the alternator over voltage which then took out the other modules. Even worse if this scenario happened the dealer diagnosis would be RIGHT ! If that happen I would only work on vehicles manufactured until 2015-2016 .
we all have the option to deny work, or specialize, not a bad idea, no worries mate, cheers. Speaking of not bad ideas, once I move back to the USA, I believe that I will be stocking up on thousands of second-hand parts for future sales. I just saw a HYBRID part for 6K but in another EURO country not far away, it was 8K in their local market online WOW.
Holy cow. Some very high voltage, im talking over 300 to 3 thousand volts, high frequency arcing and sparking must have occured. Way to much damage. Semiconductors can tolerate some brief inverse voltages, while circuit boards, inputs and outputs can have protective resistive- capacitive filters to pull these spikes to the ground..i think this car suffered something like a lightning strike or a somebody crossed some wires in the high current charging system. Whenever you see a spark around a 12vdc system that spark can be a very high voltage although its duration may only be counted in milliseconds or microseconds of duration at peak voltage.
If its just a lin bus, the modules arent married. Pull the cars side by side. Hook the lin from the suspect car to the lin of the known good start both. See if the good car sets the commx code
Maybe if it's a sprag clutch on a long deceleration as it overruns it could be not charging for long periods of time and the data will stall or look to be not operating right so thay give it a 17 minute window so the data doesn't trigger no charg codes low out
I just had to warranty my phoenix scope... mine was sticking all my signals high. I always shut the app down and restart to rule out a weird signal on the scope. I have trust issues with my scope now after that cause it sent me down some bad rabbbit holes.
HOW old is your scope, did they fix it for free, and how long did it take, did they give you a loaner while waiting and did they give your same scope back after repair or replace it completely? Cheers.
Future self-diagnostics and no need for us to do the work, just plug in and get the answer, that is where diagnostics has been going since 2001 Space Odyssey in 1969ish.
@@rainerrieck6596 yes, smart charging systems, both fuel economy and emissions reduced. They also lied to us about smaller ECMs costing less to replace, but they forgot to mention cost of reprogramming and the parts would not be available for a few years only and all the savings on wire harness weight was bullshit.
@@DuaneDonaldson will be so happy when the scanner can install 02 sensors and spark plugs especially remove tires and do brakes will be so nice. my thoughts at this stage in the game when scanner has a O2 code most of the time the sensor isn't bad the scanner just points you in a direction still takes knowledge to figure out what is wrong
I would have to go back and look over my tickets but taking in account that I was filming that adds alot of additional time but just as an estimated amount I’ve billed out around 15 hours. After my initial diag I told the customer he might have in the neighborhood of 5-7k in it parts and labor. In total my estimate was slightly over but pretty close.
Two resistors in series with a load tapped off in between them is called a "voltage divider". The easiest way to explain it is to use two resistors with the same value in series connecting the positive and negative terminals of a DC source. All of the voltage would be dropped across the two resistors (say two 1000 ohm resistors) and between the two you'd find half the voltage. So if your source is a 12vdc battery you'd have 6 vdc to ground between two resistors (of the same resistance) in series
And yes, must have been some major incident like a lightning strike. Perhaps the dealership that originally nuked the warranty on this car wasn't as dumb or crooked as you think.
Jake. I'm really enjoying this saga. I have a degree in electronics. What a flashback. You need more subscribers. Awesome thought process. I'm a Indiana Certified Emissions Repair Technician.
John Thornton taught several classes in my Certifications Class.
As a matter of fact,he'll be here at our training night September 18th in Crown Point, Indiana
This is diagnostic Gold Jake. You clearly explain you approach in each step. Keep the videos coming
The circuit at the temperature sensor is called a voltage divider.
"Voltage divider", close enough. And the temp sensor will be an NTC (negative temperature coefficient) thermistor, meaning resistance decreases as temperature increases. As opposed to a PTC (positive temp. coeff.) sensor, which has increasing resistance for increasing temp. And yes, you are probably correct about "AD" meaning analog-digital converter.
Voltage divider circuit. Yeah, it looks like lightning or they hit some live power line or something.
I concur, this car is too new with little to no body damage to have this many bad modules and I bet there are more yet to be discovered... Another Great Video!
First time you crunk it...booyah~! Ima steal them words
oh man!
what a saga...
not an easy line of work this diag stuff😏
Good thought process, Jake! Yep, you may be right - this may be the result of a lightning strike, and the parts tab just went way up. Very sad for customer.
agreed...either that or jump started it backwards
I think you misread the service info re the temp sensor. The normal condition it was speaking about, was for the reading to equal the actual ambient temp. So in the flow chart you needed to go to NG rather than OK.
That's very possible. Sometimes it's hard to think when trying to do these videos lol
I was thinking the same thing. The -9 to 150 was showing what the normal range for the sensor to show but that the sensor should read what the actual ambient temperature is.
Just a theory , if you load the signal wire going the PCM with test light , data display should show duty cycle on the alternator and that can verify if the alternator or PCM is bad .
Not on a LIN Bus. This is data packets that should be transmitting not a pulse width modulation.
Service info in another part scanning loader.. it's just a joke!! Terrible!!
Great vid Jake
I have been a Toyota master tech for 13 years now, and I have never fixed a car with an A/C amplifier. The service manual often says install a known good part or replace part, and if the problem persists, replace this other part.....
Wish we could have seen the data on the scan tool when you opened the door
Some scanner data like this, will not show -40 for certain PIDS nor will not show the actual, it is simply designed to show a minimum of a value, default value, for trained Toyota Techs to get a quick clue as to the problem based on this feedback, Honda has some of these clues built into their diagnostics also to lead the tech in a quick direction.
There are other AAT cases where the scanner will show one temp and the cluster or the radio screen will show another temp, this is a clue that depending on the circuit in series or in parallel, what is the possible problem. If in series like to a radio screen and the temps do not match, then maybe there is added resistance in the circuit (corrosion) between the ECM and screen, or in parallel going via COMM through a readout at the cluster that the cluster is bad and the COMM to the scanner is good (if temp is good on scanner) as another scenario.
Your UNPLUGIT test & BYPASS test & Rheostat test (FIXED ITSELF?) did not make any change to the PIDs, but the BYPASS test showed that the 5VRef is a BIAS voltage and cannot carry a load as part of a voltage divider circuit so the circuit integrity is good. There might be an AAT voltage to resistance to temp GRAPH in Service Info that might tell us what resistance will get us to 80*F and is this resistance inversely proportional as suspected?? YES IT IS. Was the HVAC asleep before cycling the key?? When did you clear codes, sorry if I missed that?? What a way to get the car to the Dealer to fix the AC due to an intermittent AAT code shutting it down OMG.
I may have mentioned to you before that we all need to keep LIN waveforms for each LIN Component as we can see and translate the HEADER of a LIN component to see if it is talking or pulling down or shorted or missing, etc. The LIN HEADER is probably less than the first 10 square waves and we can read it with a known good waveform in our Library, we cannot read the actual COMM PACKETS. Wrong part number alternators are the #1 problem in the field speaking the wrong LIN HEADER Signature, this is why we require a known good waveform library, easy to compare signatures. DAMN, problems keep rolling in, maybe you should look at the radio antenna lead to see it the radio is fried OMG?
John Thornton for those who want to watch a free version and more around GOOFLE to teach you what is needed, Master & Slave also,
th-cam.com/video/mX8L47ZSA-4/w-d-xo.html
wow the car that keeps giving . very interesting with that lin indeed . surely a lighting strike or some new fangled emp strike the local kids are experimenting with 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 temp sensor is definitely an odd one . i have seen them before that i have unplugged checked it out plugged it back in drive cycle and it started working never to fail again or a least i could not get it to fail with numerous sleeps and drive cycles . man i can’t tell you how lucky i am i work in a plant so back to back tests have saved my ass many times 🤪🤪🤪 but has also burned me on occasions when it’s a common hardware or batch fault
That's the problem with all manufactures. They do not provide known good signals and voltages. With out that information one cannot determine if the circuit is working correctly or not. Manufactures are just killing themselves off.
I always watch sensor voltage as actual AAT is often calculated and many criteria has to be met before recalculating. But sometimes voltage PIDs aren't there and that sucks.
another reason to monitor PIDs in GRAPH mode so we can go back and see while recording the LOG and busy doing other things
the problem with the ohm meter is you have no idea what in that pcm has parallel circuitry that will give you a reading. its ok to check wiring but hooked to any modules big nope
It is a data line so it should have high resistance to ground as I showed with the good car.
Omg. My girlfriend's dad used to call me richardcranium.
29:10 Oooo, lucky for you! Your life is not boring with this kind of services... Joke a side, this kind of mistake/problemsls are very very hard to find and working within, it's multilayerd also very complicated, sometimes depends and affects one on other and you must have veryyyyyy good amount of time, knowledge and tools to handle it.
Maybe you can make a follow up video on how you deal the the customer on such complicated costly process
You get an approval for how ever much they are willing to spend to fix it and go from there.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
34:45 You must consider that previously services can do that problems.
24:56 Hi, where is this LIN bus link?
It only goes to the ecm.
I think they were referencing the John Thorton class
@@toddm80 oh crap I did forget that lol. I’ll get it added to the description in a little bit
@@Saykes1994 sorry I forgot to post the class in the description but it’s there now.
I posted a free video on DEC 15ish on my date, might be different in USA time??
Like I commend last time, I have seen this before you are going to need a test car do not remove components of the test car and try on the good one try the suspect components ond the good car there is safeguards build into to prevent more damage. Good luck 👍
Grasias
Imagine that "the front collision" cause the temp sensor short circuit. That took out the ECM which caused the alternator over voltage which then took out the other modules.
Even worse if this scenario happened the dealer diagnosis would be RIGHT !
If that happen I would only work on vehicles manufactured until 2015-2016 .
😂😂😂
we all have the option to deny work, or specialize, not a bad idea, no worries mate, cheers.
Speaking of not bad ideas, once I move back to the USA, I believe that I will be stocking up on thousands of second-hand parts for future sales. I just saw a HYBRID part for 6K but in another EURO country not far away, it was 8K in their local market online WOW.
Holy cow. Some very high voltage, im talking over 300 to 3 thousand volts, high frequency arcing and sparking must have occured. Way to much damage. Semiconductors can tolerate some brief inverse voltages, while circuit boards, inputs and outputs can have protective resistive- capacitive filters to pull these spikes to the ground..i think this car suffered something like a lightning strike or a somebody crossed some wires in the high current charging system. Whenever you see a spark around a 12vdc system that spark can be a very high voltage although its duration may only be counted in milliseconds or microseconds of duration at peak voltage.
Florida car struck by Electric Eel-nado.
🌪♨
If its just a lin bus, the modules arent married. Pull the cars side by side. Hook the lin from the suspect car to the lin of the known good start both. See if the good car sets the commx code
You would also need to connect the batteries together. Without the power sources connected the LIN doesn't complete a circuit and is not seen.
@@autodiagyt 😉
Maybe if it's a sprag clutch on a long deceleration as it overruns it could be not charging for long periods of time and the data will stall or look to be not operating right so thay give it a 17 minute window so the data doesn't trigger no charg codes low out
I just had to warranty my phoenix scope... mine was sticking all my signals high. I always shut the app down and restart to rule out a weird signal on the scope. I have trust issues with my scope now after that cause it sent me down some bad rabbbit holes.
HOW old is your scope, did they fix it for free, and how long did it take, did they give you a loaner while waiting and did they give your same scope back after repair or replace it completely? Cheers.
@DuaneDonaldson they fixed it and I didn't pay anything. No loaner . They sent a new unit They have great customer service.
The saga continues. I hope I didn’t jinx it in the first video when I wondered if it was a lightning strike. 😬
what happened wasn't the 1 wire gm alternator good enough don't understand why it NEEDED to change
Fuel economy happened lol
They are trying to reduce the load on the engine to gain the 0 .00001 MPG in the cars lifetime fuel consumption.
Future self-diagnostics and no need for us to do the work, just plug in and get the answer, that is where diagnostics has been going since 2001 Space Odyssey in 1969ish.
@@rainerrieck6596 yes, smart charging systems, both fuel economy and emissions reduced. They also lied to us about smaller ECMs costing less to replace, but they forgot to mention cost of reprogramming and the parts would not be available for a few years only and all the savings on wire harness weight was bullshit.
@@DuaneDonaldson will be so happy when the scanner can install 02 sensors and spark plugs especially remove tires and do brakes will be so nice. my thoughts at this stage in the game when scanner has a O2 code most of the time the sensor isn't bad the scanner just points you in a direction still takes knowledge to figure out what is wrong
Okay I really have to ask this..
How much time do you actually have wrapped up in this diagnosis? I really hope you're getting compensated.
I would have to go back and look over my tickets but taking in account that I was filming that adds alot of additional time but just as an estimated amount I’ve billed out around 15 hours. After my initial diag I told the customer he might have in the neighborhood of 5-7k in it parts and labor. In total my estimate was slightly over but pretty close.
You’d need a decade box to go higher than 10k ohms.
compare pricing with a nice dacade box and an additional larger range rheostat that can be added in series or alone??
Voltage divider
wow you get lot of car hit by lighting
👍🆒
If Luke Goss was a blue collar worker.
Maybe someone tried to jump start the car with jumper cables connected backwards.
It will almost always blow fuses and typically those modules will continue to blow fuses. They all look original and none have been blown.
Two resistors in series with a load tapped off in between them is called a "voltage divider". The easiest way to explain it is to use two resistors with the same value in series connecting the positive and negative terminals of a DC source. All of the voltage would be dropped across the two resistors (say two 1000 ohm resistors) and between the two you'd find half the voltage. So if your source is a 12vdc battery you'd have 6 vdc to ground between two resistors (of the same resistance) in series
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider
Poor customer.
A Toyota POS ? 0:35
Today's toyota and lexus is just a brand nothing else
Need an exorcist 😢
And yes, must have been some major incident like a lightning strike. Perhaps the dealership that originally nuked the warranty on this car wasn't as dumb or crooked as you think.
Still shitty for how they voided it. Lying is never the way to do business.