We've teamed up with Epic Desk on a limited edition custom mousepad/work mat inspired by JAMSI Online! epicdesk.shop/products/jamsi Be sure to check it out, and pre-order while you can! Pre-orders will last through August 13th, 2023 and once that closes, they'll never be available again!
Are you going to run a roller cam? I'd love to see you provision that block for a roller cam. You take pretty good quality video and I need to see how it's done right and be able to see it well. Fingers crossed that you do.
I respect the transparency and honesty with this shop and realization that all things aren't perfect, we do the best we can. I remember a recent video where he said "it's just the world we live in" and there's a lot of machinist that just don't have that mindset. When your talking tenths, even thousandths in some cases, all we can do is rely on our instruments and realize tenths is temps, smudges, oil, dust, just metal to metal contact variances, different instruments or how two different people use them. Stride for perfection, rely on the instruments because it's the best we can do but realize it may not be perfect and nobody will ever know. It don't get much better than this shop and I know the old man has to be so proud to have this young man excel so much in the family business. I don't trust many people to work on my stuff but I would trust these two guys with anything I have.
I Don't trust anybody/nobody to work on my " Stuff", no Thank You. I'm gona send my S6 block to Big Jim. I don't want a race motor, just an occasional spirited motor. I'm about Jim's age and we don't have to prove a thing.
Just a quote from 21:05 when there was a slight miscalculation. (Like about half a thou?) I thought it was amusing. They are both about as far from dumb as they could possibly be.@@donbrecker8982
Thank you, seeing this shows what I paid 30 years ago for as a sixteen year old: I worked min wage aftershool jobs and then put what is today $3,000 into machining and assembly of a 350 long block. Last weekend that same 350 took me and my kids over a mountain highway to the beach and back and still keeps up with traffic -- plus there were a whole lot of burnouts and 6,000 rpm shifts 25 years ago
Talking about temps and size variations, I visited a high end tool maker shop once and they had a dedicated metronomy room that was permanently climate controlled to 60 degrees to keep consistency in measurements across the board.
@@JAMSIONLINEgood stuff, glad to see a cr increase. COMETIC makes an MLS that'll be a good fit. 0.036" thick with a 4.040" (if I recall is what this is) with 0.004" in the bore will give ya 0.040" p-d so plenty. And if one is a couple short you'll be alright. They make a 0.030" as well but I'd only try that on my personal engine, not a customers cuz 34 thou is pretty tight. 40 is great, good quench. With 4 in the hole he'll run outta cylinder wall before deck. Know guys running 5 out so... and plenty of gasket thickness options out there. 10.5:1 383/385 - 23 degree head - 106 LCA cam (maybe 108 if you are spraying but I'd rather it be optimized for na cuz not always hitting the button so I'd default to 106). Probably good for 30 lb-ft over a 110 setup that's the usual (less duration, same overlap for given rpm).
What a great partnership you two are. Neither one outdoes the other but the father gently steers. I wish my old man had have been that way. Thanks for making these vids.
Between 0.0005" and 0.0010" difference could almost be accounted for by someone exhaling on the deck when it was measured. Lol The effort towards precision on this is breathtaking in its sincerity. I'd be willing to bet that most high volume long block builders would be happy with 10 times that much if they noticed at all.
@@oldsguy354while controlling temperature *_is_* absolutely vital for measurements on a very small scale, in this instance breathing on the part will not come even *_remotely_* close to making 5 tenths of a difference. There's simply way too much thermal mass in an iron block for a few breaths to have a meaningful effect at the tenths level. (CTE for iron is ~6.8x10^-6 in/in/F° .0000068, so you'd need to change the temp of a 7.684" slug of cast iron by ~9.6°F to change its length by .0005". That just ain't happening due to small scale human interaction of a room temp cast iron block.)
Learn from toolmaker. take last 3 passes at the same depth of cut and you will never be surprised at where your finish dimmension ends up. Works for turning, facing, boring. everything. Idea is to keep the same forces on cutting tool. If you are taking 2 passes at 5 thou and lasrt pass at 2 thou- the last pass will always have some spring and take more material off.
Checking the original deck height just proves out the line hone again. Nailed dimension and deck height with the line hone which gives you a great place to start from. It's awesome to see people good at their craft!
This is one of the best channels on youtube. Showing the details of your works. Not editing out mistakes. having some fun banter with your work. Thanks for sharing your videos.
David v. Stated if the crankshaft spins by hand its good enough. He found that a 350 sbc can twist up to 1/16 the of a inch on the dyno! At that point there is no way the mains are in alignment. The oil film is also extremely stiff. Interesting information I thought.
I used to stick sandpaper to a mirror and sand a little off the main caps to bring bores into spec, this was my home garage way of doing things. Having a dial bore gauge is really helpful and something even a casual engine builder should have.
08/06/2023 Hello Jim's. I have watched a few of your videos and I am amazed at the control of the specs. I think this is a great addition to your videos. Thanks. Don
Cleaning guy: Long time British car restorer, short time Hobby Machinist. I have the same problem: sneaking up on the final cut. I found machining everything in METRIC, that final cut was easier, with no over-cuts. Jus mi 2 pennies.
I worked running cnc for about 4 yrs & i remember one thing about it if i had to go another .017, i would never adjust it to go .017. I might adjust it to take .010 then recheck. If it was right on & i had .007 to go i might then take .004 then recheck. Ofcourse it wasnt a engine shop. It was production cnc & some of the machines & tooling was beraly adequate.
Talking about deck height I had built a 460 30 over shut up beautiful Cobra jet heads by the time I get the block to clean it up I ended up short .020 for piston to head clearance. So we ordered a .020 copper head gasket and I very carefully used aviation permatex very thin coat on the head gasket and the block surface.
Given that you were aiming for a 'perfect 5 thou below deck height', recommend you just reset to 4 thou below deck height and proceed to take 0.5 to 1 thou of the other bank. Engine has now been machined so that both banks are essentially equal - job done. Having said that, I would be perfectly happy with a 1 thou descrepency between banks.
That's exactly what I thought, why wouldn't you just tumble it back over to the other deck and cut a smidge more off to equalize?? I would if it was my block. Anyhow... Great video all the same.
On my 5.3 build I was going to deck the block but after doing a dummy build my piston's to deck clearance turned out to be 0.004in. I was aiming for 10.5.1 .CR ended up with 10.6.1 CR. I am so glad I did not deck the block before the dummy build. Think I would have been up the creek without a paddle with pistons out of there holes.
Reminds me of a loco engines that would squeak under load . This was 1981. Was doing an in frame on a Baldwin Hamilton Lima 1943 . the rods were . Over .090 out of round journals are over 9 inches hard chromed and still round then . GE Apparatus service Phoenix AZ resized the rods . When things are round no more squeaking . I doubt the rods were ever checked on these in frame rebuilds . Basic engine fundamentals.
.005 is a good deck height. Gives room to play with gasket thickness, to be able to change valve/piston clearance, if using a high-lift cam, without fly-cutting valve reliefs into the piston.
With the abundance of head gasket options out there I always run my stuff at .000 to -.005” piston to deck clearance, but even if it is .005 in the hole you can use thinner head gaskets, but I get it when you’re dealing with the public and customers that are not engine builders you have to set things up so that you don’t have come backs or disasters
Nice that you have a machine just for decking. I had to constantly change up my Lagun for different jobs. Most of the time I was doing aluminum skim cuts, but did steel quite often.
I machine diesel blocks for liner protrusion shims. I did 1 yesterday and had to do it for 2 different sized shims in in half the holes because the erosion was so bad. It is nerve racking to change your setup and numbers in your head halfway through all while the customer is watching. It's like working in a fish bowl. I have to be within .002 across all 6 holes and within .001 of holes next to each other. The liners have a protrusion spec of .001- .006. I was .0055-.006 when done. It was a stressful but rewarding 8 hr deal. The cutter tool is hand operated.
We used to put modeling clay in the combustion chamber.Torque the head down. rotate the crank a few times. measure the clearance and shave away. I had a 51, 5 window step side chevy with a .60 over, 12 to 1 straight six. If memory served me right, it cc out to about 244 cu. in. It had a 500 cfm two barrel carb. I never lost to a ford truck with a 289 or less in it. I put it together on a very limited budget in 1971, with the help of my brother who raced a 55 chev at the strip. He took regionals one year. I miss those days.
Considering the cost of IR cameras has come down so much? (it happened because of Covid of all things) Maybe think about finding an IR camera set up you can use to do quick scans of the deck and machinery so you can SEE how hot things are on the fly, so you can take a break and let things cool down. We can remove material with ease, putting material back is a bit of a .....'no'... a lot of times. To me, its cheap insurance to prevent expensive 'oops'.
I have no doubt that the father / son banter during your work, brings as much enjoyment to you both as the results of the work itself! Keep up the great content. The clear explanations are very informative and entertaining.
We built a 3.0 4-cylinder Porsche engine with a modified 2 valve per cylinder 2.4 head we sleeve the block with special sleeves and had it decked, after measuring deck height I had .010 sticking above the deck. So we had the fly cut the head for the proper piston clearance. Minimum of .050 and a little bit more for carbon buildup. One sweet machine when we got done put a really big turbocharger on it and a little modification for better filtering for the oil system. Allowing the turbo to always have clean, and the rest of the motor.
I'm a gear head. This is exactly what I wanted to do when I got out of the navy. I opted to go into automation, which has been a great career choice. Still wish I knew how to build engines like this. Great job guys. 👍
It's nice seeing this done the professional way. I did all this myself on a 377 carb'd LT1 build, and boy was it a chore. I had the block decked to the point that my compression is 11.4:1. Measure, measure, and measure again. I decided not to do the line hone, although I kind of wish I did since I did use ARP studs. So far the motor runs well, but it does like octane. Custom thickness Cometic gaskets were a MUST to get things where I wanted them. What a job! Sure proves how much the professionals put into these things to get them right!
Since my 318 was assembled I just measured the depth of the piston from the deck height on all 4 corners with a dial indicator. It was .100" in the hole. I ended up putting MAJORLY ported 360 heads on with larger valves. I cc'd the heads after shaving them ALL of it. Got 9.5:1 out of it. Someday I might deck the block to 10:5-1 but it's probably not worth it. Plus I already had to replace the push rods for the head shave and put thick intake gaskets on. It has an aggressive cam and EFI, it runs (and sounds) GOOD!
To measure deck height I used to install the piston/rod assembly without rings. Find TDC. Cock the piston one way in the cylinder and measure the deck height to the side that’s lowest. Cock the other way, and measure the lowest point again. Add the two then divide by 2, and that’s the deck height😊
Yea I do this to with the magnetic deck tool and a dial indicator, would you call that the manual way of doing it? I would like to have that deck height tool that measures off the main saddle. I seen them use it in previous videos and tried to find one with a Google search with no luck.
@@stevenbelue5496 Haven’t been in the business since the ‘80’s. They’ve got some super tools, and intelligent applications, nowadays, that I don’t think were thought of, back then😊. That is one of them
A great show of your engineering integrity to leave in the mistake on the last cut. Mistakes happen, it’s human nature, but the mark of a good engineer is how you deal with it. Top job as always.
thats a really nice machine. i have a SV85B with variable speed traverse but your machine looks a dream. i also don't have a fixture to index to cam bore of pushrod v8s (such as a block tru) but on the few american v8s i've done i've never managed to get the set up pretty accurate with a bit of effort. hobby performance engine builder in switzerland. a DRO would be nice. EDIT: just finished watching :). well i go from about half a thou piston recession and usually hit it dead on after pre-assembly. guess the sv85b isn't so bad - just takes maybe a bit longer.
Great video, very interesting, we practice the same procedures in our shop! We have a f99y rottler and a em103 rottler, makes the hole process of boring, surfacing, and lineboring quicker, enjoy your videos!
So glad you decided to bump compression to 10.5:1, a modern combustion chamber design works like magic right there on premium pump gas! Wooooo!!!! Love a stroker!
I believe you said you guys were in Dunn. I'm in Fayetteville,Nc. If I knew you guys were that close to me, I would have brought my Ls3 block to you guys. I just dropped my block off 2 weeks ago at a machine shop.
I could watch this stuff all day! Love the machine work. Now it's time to open up the oil return holes, remove flashing, relieve the stress risers, cross drill the oilers. ah... music to my ears.
Nice work. It is cool to see the Monza in your shop in the background of the intro. I had one (305ci, 5 liter) that I hand-fabricated my own nitrous system. I put the 16lb bottle in the spare tire tub, routed a steel-braided line forward through the transmission tunnel. I put an Edelbrock SP2P with a 600cfm Holley (replaced the stock 2bbl). I cutout the stock airbox with the snorkel to sit on the Holley nicely. What a blast.
I think it’s great to see a young man taking on the responsibility of your family machine shop. You just don’t see young people taking on what your doing. It’s also way cool to see father and son working together. Keep it up guys.
Man the whole bit about needing new equipment and then getting a pizza party counter offer his a little too close to home. 😢 Companies these days suck to work for. Working with your dad doing what you love must be the best.
Man, i WISH you were my machine shop. Ive gone through a dozen different shops now. From crooked decked heads, to tapered bores, i cant find anyone worth a damn any more.
WELL DONE like you talk about here with the machine warming up the head and spindle i tried to explain that to someone one day and they laughed thought i was kidding on old mill the a large fly head cutter like this, well later that day they happily cut along and suddenly -.003 difference popped up out of no where everything warmed and expanded then they realized why i left the bay doors loading dock and entry doors closed so the heat from outside didnt creep its way inside. now start working the difference of iron versus aluminum block and head. machine and part temperatures can make huge finish impact. Quit one shop they got it in head that "hey we will turn heat down at night save huge amount of money " only to find out dead of winter its -20 outside the shop dropped to 50 degrees crank heat up so the air feels warm but machine and material of parts going to cut are still ice cold, then they expected to jump on machine and start cutting ha ha ha
Jim's Automotive, In cases where you have to Line Bore a block and maybe that block has already been Line Bored before, How can the engine builder compensate for the resulting slack in the timing chain ?
My new favorite channel, very fascinating and educational, so glad I found it. Such superb work; combining technical knowledge and having excellent machines and tools and perfecting the usage of them. It’s admirable how you work together and have such keen attention to detail and seek perfection! Thank you for this!
I worked in an automotive machine shop in between jobs, remember honing with and without torque plates on the SBC. With the torque plates you could instantly see the “print” of the head bolts when you started honing the cylinders. Made me a believer in torque plates on a SBC. Ford blocks, not so much.
Throughly enjoyed your video, thanks for showing everything. Not that I don't like tractors but 350 sbc really hits home..... I'd love you guys to do my motor
Re-read the title and now I suggest you could have (1) used headland top ring and (2) angle-milled the cylinder heads. When I used to cc stocker and super-stock heads, and also street-rod heads, I used to do this on sbc heads. It also gives a slighter straight shot from the intake plenum. Also used thicker-faced valves, the advantage which can be seen on a flow bench. On prostock 351 Cleveland heads, we shortened the short-side radius thickness, of the intake runner, and used an individually custom made “vane” to direct flow TOWARDS that short-side radius. These vanes were welded to a screw, which fit through a hole in the top of the intake runner. Attached by a nut and silicone
Title is just something catchy to bring people in lol. It was getting decked like this either way. The big change to being our CR up was going from the dished pistons shown to a flat top that’s coming Monday!
This engine has been great content for your channel. I hope you are giving the customer a discount on all the labor otherwise they could have bought two crate engines by now 🙂
Yeah, when you are really concentrating, you can overthink and well, that's how it is. Great work, though. I appreciate that you and your dad work so well together.
If I take my engine looking for an engine shop,and they say it will be perfect,I keep looking,for the shop that says we will get it as close as we can lol
Use a single steel shim head gasket and plane the cylinder heads too , Those 58cc double hump heads are Fantastic for the small block , I got some on my 327 .
I would have stopped at +.001. Easier to leave then put back on. There is a gasket unless you O-ring the heads and block. Lots of air cutting me thinks ? Lay the block out in the Sun if you want to add a few thousands. I used to machine aluminum gear boxes and hold .0002 on the bearing bores with a airgauge.. So I used the Sun or the drinking fountain from time to time.
Good info here. And good to check the squarness to the machine with a dial. Now I'd be curious of how square the pistons end up in the bores from front to rear along all the wristpin axes.
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We've teamed up with Epic Desk on a limited edition custom mousepad/work mat inspired by JAMSI Online!
epicdesk.shop/products/jamsi
Be sure to check it out, and pre-order while you can! Pre-orders will last through August 13th, 2023 and once that closes, they'll never be available again!
Any chance of getting that on a T-shirt?
Are you going to run a roller cam? I'd love to see you provision that block for a roller cam. You take pretty good quality video and I need to see how it's done right and be able to see it well. Fingers crossed that you do.
Is it possible to get a link to the wallpaper?
"Cleaning Guy is getting some lip on him" I love it! Family is everything. Great job guys
People say shit like that if you're the newest guy at a regular shop
When a Cleaning Guy gets famous, look out. They are worse than any rock star.
Nothing builds workplace morale like a pizza party😂
Junior don't know what he is doing . decking the block .wtf
I respect the transparency and honesty with this shop and realization that all things aren't perfect, we do the best we can. I remember a recent video where he said "it's just the world we live in" and there's a lot of machinist that just don't have that mindset. When your talking tenths, even thousandths in some cases, all we can do is rely on our instruments and realize tenths is temps, smudges, oil, dust, just metal to metal contact variances, different instruments or how two different people use them. Stride for perfection, rely on the instruments because it's the best we can do but realize it may not be perfect and nobody will ever know. It don't get much better than this shop and I know the old man has to be so proud to have this young man excel so much in the family business. I don't trust many people to work on my stuff but I would trust these two guys with anything I have.
I Don't trust anybody/nobody to work on my " Stuff", no Thank You. I'm gona send my S6 block to Big Jim. I don't want a race motor, just an occasional spirited motor. I'm about Jim's age and we don't have to prove a thing.
"When you're dumb, but smart enough to know you're dumb. Wouldn't it be nicer just to be dumb?" My new favorite quote.
Google 'The Dunning-Kruger Effect.'
I agree. Honestly though, the smartest people are the smartest because they know how much they don't know, and they will admit to it
WHAT HAS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SITE ??????
Just a quote from 21:05 when there was a slight miscalculation. (Like about half a thou?) I thought it was amusing. They are both about as far from dumb as they could possibly be.@@donbrecker8982
Dumb enough to be dangerous, my dad would have said. 😅
Thank you, seeing this shows what I paid 30 years ago for as a sixteen year old: I worked min wage aftershool jobs and then put what is today $3,000 into machining and assembly of a 350 long block. Last weekend that same 350 took me and my kids over a mountain highway to the beach and back and still keeps up with traffic -- plus there were a whole lot of burnouts and 6,000 rpm shifts 25 years ago
I've been a job shop/prototype machinist 35 yrs. It's interesting to see the specialty machines in an engine shop. Really cool!
Talking about temps and size variations, I visited a high end tool maker shop once and they had a dedicated metronomy room that was permanently climate controlled to 60 degrees to keep consistency in measurements across the board.
You guys have so much character. Showing the mistakes takes courage especially on social media. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for today's episode guys, much appreciated
Thanks for watching!
@@JAMSIONLINEgood stuff, glad to see a cr increase. COMETIC makes an MLS that'll be a good fit. 0.036" thick with a 4.040" (if I recall is what this is) with 0.004" in the bore will give ya 0.040" p-d so plenty. And if one is a couple short you'll be alright.
They make a 0.030" as well but I'd only try that on my personal engine, not a customers cuz 34 thou is pretty tight. 40 is great, good quench. With 4 in the hole he'll run outta cylinder wall before deck. Know guys running 5 out so... and plenty of gasket thickness options out there.
10.5:1 383/385 - 23 degree head - 106 LCA cam (maybe 108 if you are spraying but I'd rather it be optimized for na cuz not always hitting the button so I'd default to 106). Probably good for 30 lb-ft over a 110 setup that's the usual (less duration, same overlap for given rpm).
I laughed that you actually edited in a second clip of your dad vacuuming the floor. I love your dad! 🔧👍🏼
Right? It was the perfect introjection.
What a great partnership you two are. Neither one outdoes the other but the father gently steers. I wish my old man had have been that way. Thanks for making these vids.
Me also, my Father hated cars and exhaust fumes...He sure liked those binoculars at the beach.
My Dad fired me. Twice.
@@Milkmans_Son My dad fired me once out the end of his knob and the next time out the door at 15.
@@Marius_vanderLubbe What I forgot to mention is I probably would have fired me, too.
@@Milkmans_Son All good, man. Nice talking to you.
that’s awesome to see that engine block getting decked to within a thousandth of an inch
Takes a little more time but worth it!
Between 0.0005" and 0.0010" difference could almost be accounted for by someone exhaling on the deck when it was measured. Lol The effort towards precision on this is breathtaking in its sincerity.
I'd be willing to bet that most high volume long block builders would be happy with 10 times that much if they noticed at all.
@@oldsguy354while controlling temperature *_is_* absolutely vital for measurements on a very small scale, in this instance breathing on the part will not come even *_remotely_* close to making 5 tenths of a difference.
There's simply way too much thermal mass in an iron block for a few breaths to have a meaningful effect at the tenths level.
(CTE for iron is ~6.8x10^-6 in/in/F° .0000068, so you'd need to change the temp of a 7.684" slug of cast iron by ~9.6°F to change its length by .0005". That just ain't happening due to small scale human interaction of a room temp cast iron block.)
@@Iceberg86300 I was kidding, but I understand that was lost on you.
@@Iceberg86300what if a farted like really hard in the engine building room tho
Love you two working together. Puts a smile on my face
Learn from toolmaker. take last 3 passes at the same depth of cut and you will never be surprised at where your finish dimmension ends up. Works for turning, facing, boring. everything. Idea is to keep the same forces on cutting tool.
If you are taking 2 passes at 5 thou and lasrt pass at 2 thou- the last pass will always have some spring and take more material off.
You guys do great work I wish I had someone local that had as much passion as you both. You guys care about the customer not how much money you see.
Checking the original deck height just proves out the line hone again. Nailed dimension and deck height with the line hone which gives you a great place to start from. It's awesome to see people good at their craft!
Best Sunday breakfast videos ever... and the compression cowboys will be happy today lol. Stay blessed guys, thanks ALWAYS. 🤙🇺🇸🇷🇺🤘
This is one of the best channels on youtube. Showing the details of your works. Not editing out mistakes. having some fun banter with your work. Thanks for sharing your videos.
David v. Stated if the crankshaft spins by hand its good enough. He found that a 350 sbc can twist up to 1/16 the of a inch on the dyno! At that point there is no way the mains are in alignment. The oil film is also extremely stiff. Interesting information I thought.
My brother had a vw gas engine warped enough you needed a breaker bar to turn the engine. It heated up quicker than it should but got 38 mpg gasmilage
I used to stick sandpaper to a mirror and sand a little off the main caps to bring bores into spec, this was my home garage way of doing things. Having a dial bore gauge is really helpful and something even a casual engine builder should have.
08/06/2023 Hello Jim's. I have watched a few of your videos and I am amazed at the control of the specs. I think this is a great addition to your videos. Thanks. Don
So much cool information. I think you're cleaning guy needs a raise!
Cleaning guy: Long time British car restorer, short time Hobby Machinist. I have the same problem: sneaking up on the final cut. I found machining everything in METRIC, that final cut was easier, with no over-cuts. Jus mi 2 pennies.
I'm convinced that everyone who has run a machine tool has snuck up on a dimension, just to have it sneak on past the operator! I certainly have!
I took .005 off and it is still .005 to short!
Another fantastic episode!!! Looking forward to seeing this engine finished.
I worked running cnc for about 4 yrs & i remember one thing about it if i had to go another .017, i would never adjust it to go .017. I might adjust it to take .010 then recheck. If it was right on & i had .007 to go i might then take .004 then recheck. Ofcourse it wasnt a engine shop. It was production cnc & some of the machines & tooling was beraly adequate.
He ordered a big bottle of hot sauce
That will make it spicy!
Talking about deck height I had built a 460 30 over shut up beautiful Cobra jet heads by the time I get the block to clean it up I ended up short .020 for piston to head clearance. So we ordered a .020 copper head gasket and I very carefully used aviation permatex very thin coat on the head gasket and the block surface.
Given that you were aiming for a 'perfect 5 thou below deck height', recommend you just reset to 4 thou below deck height and proceed to take 0.5 to 1 thou of the other bank. Engine has now been machined so that both banks are essentially equal - job done. Having said that, I would be perfectly happy with a 1 thou descrepency between banks.
That's exactly what I thought, why wouldn't you just tumble it back over to the other deck and cut a smidge more off to equalize?? I would if it was my block. Anyhow... Great video all the same.
On my 5.3 build I was going to deck the block but after doing a dummy build my piston's to deck clearance turned out to be 0.004in. I was aiming for 10.5.1 .CR ended up with 10.6.1 CR. I am so glad I did not deck the block before the dummy build. Think I would have been up the creek without a paddle with pistons out of there holes.
I can't believe how clean you guys keep the shop
Such a great series! I can't wait for the playlist to come back and rewatch it.
You all present so much great insight and info!!!
Great work guys! Dad is such a gem!
Put my 428 Pontiac together .010 out of the hole t get proper quench, working great
Some of the best running engines I know of the piston came out of the bore.
Gasket thickness figured in, get the quench right, and create a MONSTER!
Reminds me of a loco engines that would squeak under load . This was 1981. Was doing an in frame on a Baldwin Hamilton Lima 1943 . the rods were . Over .090 out of round journals are over 9 inches hard chromed and still round then . GE Apparatus service Phoenix AZ resized the rods . When things are round no more squeaking . I doubt the rods were ever checked on these in frame rebuilds . Basic engine fundamentals.
.005 is a good deck height. Gives room to play with gasket thickness, to be able to change valve/piston clearance, if using a high-lift cam, without fly-cutting valve reliefs into the piston.
With the abundance of head gasket options out there I always run my stuff at .000 to -.005” piston to deck clearance, but even if it is .005 in the hole you can use thinner head gaskets, but I get it when you’re dealing with the public and customers that are not engine builders you have to set things up so that you don’t have come backs or disasters
Exactly, a few thou here or there, so many variables 🤔👍
Been a mechanic for about 17 years now. I wanna do this now.
Buy my shop and I'll show you how to do everything these gentlemen can do. No joke. Ehnes-rink is FOR SALE
Great video! I love seeing you guys work together.
Nice that you have a machine just for decking. I had to constantly change up my Lagun for different jobs. Most of the time I was doing aluminum skim cuts, but did steel quite often.
I machine diesel blocks for liner protrusion shims. I did 1 yesterday and had to do it for 2 different sized shims in in half the holes because the erosion was so bad. It is nerve racking to change your setup and numbers in your head halfway through all while the customer is watching. It's like working in a fish bowl. I have to be within .002 across all 6 holes and within .001 of holes next to each other. The liners have a protrusion spec of .001- .006. I was .0055-.006 when done. It was a stressful but rewarding 8 hr deal. The cutter tool is hand operated.
We used to put modeling clay in the combustion chamber.Torque the head down. rotate the crank a few times. measure the clearance and shave away. I had a 51, 5 window step side chevy with a .60 over, 12 to 1 straight six. If memory served me right, it cc out to about 244 cu. in. It had a 500 cfm two barrel carb. I never lost to a ford truck with a 289 or less in it. I put it together on a very limited budget in 1971, with the help of my brother who raced a 55 chev at the strip. He took regionals one year. I miss those days.
I wish I had the type of bond you two have with my dad.
Considering the cost of IR cameras has come down so much? (it happened because of Covid of all things) Maybe think about finding an IR camera set up you can use to do quick scans of the deck and machinery so you can SEE how hot things are on the fly, so you can take a break and let things cool down. We can remove material with ease, putting material back is a bit of a .....'no'... a lot of times. To me, its cheap insurance to prevent expensive 'oops'.
I have no doubt that the father / son banter during your work, brings as much enjoyment to you both as the results of the work itself! Keep up the great content. The clear explanations are very informative and entertaining.
You guys put out some gold standard content, thanks, keep it up
I'm loving that Monza in the background! Looks great with those Center Lines.
We built a 3.0 4-cylinder Porsche engine with a modified 2 valve per cylinder 2.4 head we sleeve the block with special sleeves and had it decked, after measuring deck height I had .010 sticking above the deck. So we had the fly cut the head for the proper piston clearance. Minimum of .050 and a little bit more for carbon buildup. One sweet machine when we got done put a really big turbocharger on it and a little modification for better filtering for the oil system. Allowing the turbo to always have clean, and the rest of the motor.
I'm a gear head. This is exactly what I wanted to do when I got out of the navy. I opted to go into automation, which has been a great career choice. Still wish I knew how to build engines like this. Great job guys. 👍
It's nice seeing this done the professional way. I did all this myself on a 377 carb'd LT1 build, and boy was it a chore. I had the block decked to the point that my compression is 11.4:1. Measure, measure, and measure again. I decided not to do the line hone, although I kind of wish I did since I did use ARP studs. So far the motor runs well, but it does like octane. Custom thickness Cometic gaskets were a MUST to get things where I wanted them. What a job! Sure proves how much the professionals put into these things to get them right!
Watching the gift of a father bestowing his years of hard-earned knowledge on to his son is a beautiful thing.
Should try to take a final clean up cut of zero. I have found that usually get that last few tenths.
The attention to detail and mastery of craft is refreshing to see.
looks like the cleaning guy has been paying attention, he almost sounds like he actually knows what he was talking about. he earned that pizza today.
Since my 318 was assembled I just measured the depth of the piston from the deck height on all 4 corners with a dial indicator. It was .100" in the hole.
I ended up putting MAJORLY ported 360 heads on with larger valves.
I cc'd the heads after shaving them ALL of it.
Got 9.5:1 out of it.
Someday I might deck the block to 10:5-1 but it's probably not worth it.
Plus I already had to replace the push rods for the head shave and put thick intake gaskets on.
It has an aggressive cam and EFI, it runs (and sounds) GOOD!
To measure deck height I used to install the piston/rod assembly without rings. Find TDC. Cock the piston one way in the cylinder and measure the deck height to the side that’s lowest. Cock the other way, and measure the lowest point again. Add the two then divide by 2, and that’s the deck height😊
Yea I do this to with the magnetic deck tool and a dial indicator, would you call that the manual way of doing it? I would like to have that deck height tool that measures off the main saddle. I seen them use it in previous videos and tried to find one with a Google search with no luck.
@@stevenbelue5496
Haven’t been in the business since the ‘80’s. They’ve got some super tools, and intelligent applications, nowadays, that I don’t think were thought of, back then😊. That is one of them
A great show of your engineering integrity to leave in the mistake on the last cut. Mistakes happen, it’s human nature, but the mark of a good engineer is how you deal with it. Top job as always.
thats a really nice machine. i have a SV85B with variable speed traverse but your machine looks a dream. i also don't have a fixture to index to cam bore of pushrod v8s (such as a block tru) but on the few american v8s i've done i've never managed to get the set up pretty accurate with a bit of effort. hobby performance engine builder in switzerland. a DRO would be nice. EDIT: just finished watching :). well i go from about half a thou piston recession and usually hit it dead on after pre-assembly. guess the sv85b isn't so bad - just takes maybe a bit longer.
Great video, very interesting, we practice the same procedures in our shop! We have a f99y rottler and a em103 rottler, makes the hole process of boring, surfacing, and lineboring quicker, enjoy your videos!
The sanity check explains how you know where it goes. Thanks for sharing your expertice!
Should have let the Cleaning Guy set that last cut... Thanks for your videos!
So glad you decided to bump compression to 10.5:1, a modern combustion chamber design works like magic right there on premium pump gas! Wooooo!!!! Love a stroker!
I believe you said you guys were in Dunn. I'm in Fayetteville,Nc. If I knew you guys were that close to me, I would have brought my Ls3 block to you guys. I just dropped my block off 2 weeks ago at a machine shop.
You guys have a blessed life there together, hope you never take it for granted
I could watch this stuff all day! Love the machine work. Now it's time to open up the oil return holes, remove flashing, relieve the stress risers, cross drill the oilers. ah... music to my ears.
Just my kind of Sunday morning show
Nice work.
It is cool to see the Monza in your shop in the background of the intro. I had one (305ci, 5 liter) that I hand-fabricated my own nitrous system. I put the 16lb bottle in the spare tire tub, routed a steel-braided line forward through the transmission tunnel. I put an Edelbrock SP2P with a 600cfm Holley (replaced the stock 2bbl). I cutout the stock airbox with the snorkel to sit on the Holley nicely. What a blast.
PERFECT. Your floor sweeper guy is smarter than most experts. Decked within .002" is very good.
Thanks for the education guys, God Bless
Great video, I’m learning a lot from the parts washer guy!
Awesome job looking forward to seeing the next video.
I think it’s great to see a young man taking on the responsibility of your family machine shop. You just don’t see young people taking on what your doing. It’s also way cool to see father and son working together. Keep it up guys.
Man the whole bit about needing new equipment and then getting a pizza party counter offer his a little too close to home. 😢 Companies these days suck to work for. Working with your dad doing what you love must be the best.
I’m a formerly trained machinist.
It’s great watching you and your dad..
My dads name is James too..
Aka Jimbo
Man, i WISH you were my machine shop. Ive gone through a dozen different shops now. From crooked decked heads, to tapered bores, i cant find anyone worth a damn any more.
I feel your pain!
Cant wait to see the final product, this is turning into quite the motor so far!
WELL DONE
like you talk about here with the machine warming up the head and spindle i tried to explain that to someone one day and they laughed thought i was kidding on old mill the a large fly head cutter like this, well later that day they happily cut along and suddenly -.003 difference popped up out of no where everything warmed and expanded then they realized why i left the bay doors loading dock and entry doors closed so the heat from outside didnt creep its way inside. now start working the difference of iron versus aluminum block and head. machine and part temperatures can make huge finish impact.
Quit one shop they got it in head that "hey we will turn heat down at night save huge amount of money " only to find out dead of winter its -20 outside the shop dropped to 50 degrees crank heat up so the air feels warm but machine and material of parts going to cut are still ice cold, then they expected to jump on machine and start cutting ha ha ha
Jim's Automotive, In cases where you have to Line Bore a block and maybe that block has already been Line Bored before, How can the engine builder compensate for the resulting slack in the timing chain ?
Can't wait to hear it run!
My new favorite channel, very fascinating and educational, so glad I found it. Such superb work; combining technical knowledge and having excellent machines and tools and perfecting the usage of them. It’s admirable how you work together and have such keen attention to detail and seek perfection! Thank you for this!
I worked in an automotive machine shop in between jobs, remember honing with and without torque plates on the SBC. With the torque plates you could instantly see the “print” of the head bolts when you started honing the cylinders. Made me a believer in torque plates on a SBC. Ford blocks, not so much.
Once again ! Another interesting video . Thanks for sharing !
Great Old school work with the twist of expertise few have. Calgary Canada
Have you considered rotating the gauge ninety degrees to eliminate parallax?
Oh no!!!! LOL. Did ya go out and get a 6-71 blower? hahahahah awesome! Thanx a ton for this gentle ones.
Throughly enjoyed your video, thanks for showing everything. Not that I don't like tractors but 350 sbc really hits home..... I'd love you guys to do my motor
Brings me back to my days with the CK-10 (Sunnen) which WOULD line hone main saddles
Your dad just seems so wholesome. 😊
My ocd says roll it back over and take another half thou off the other side
Thanks for taking the time to document your work. I enjoy the content.
Re-read the title and now I suggest you could have (1) used headland top ring and (2) angle-milled the cylinder heads. When I used to cc stocker and super-stock heads, and also street-rod heads, I used to do this on sbc heads. It also gives a slighter straight shot from the intake plenum. Also used thicker-faced valves, the advantage which can be seen on a flow bench. On prostock 351 Cleveland heads, we shortened the short-side radius thickness, of the intake runner, and used an individually custom made “vane” to direct flow TOWARDS that short-side radius. These vanes were welded to a screw, which fit through a hole in the top of the intake runner. Attached by a nut and silicone
Title is just something catchy to bring people in lol. It was getting decked like this either way. The big change to being our CR up was going from the dished pistons shown to a flat top that’s coming Monday!
This engine has been great content for your channel. I hope you are giving the customer a discount on all the labor otherwise they could have bought two crate engines by now 🙂
Yeah, when you are really concentrating, you can overthink and well, that's how it is. Great work, though. I appreciate that you and your dad work so well together.
If I take my engine looking for an engine shop,and they say it will be perfect,I keep looking,for the shop that says we will get it as close as we can lol
Great video brother, thanks for sharing! Always good to hear someone who knows what they are doing with good knowledge and experience!
I appreciate that!
Use a single steel shim head gasket and plane the cylinder heads too ,
Those 58cc double hump heads are Fantastic for the small block , I got some on my 327 .
I would have stopped at +.001. Easier to leave then put back on. There is a gasket unless you O-ring the heads and block. Lots of air cutting me thinks ? Lay the block out in the Sun if you want to add a few thousands. I used to machine aluminum gear boxes and hold .0002 on the bearing bores with a airgauge.. So I used the Sun or the drinking fountain from time to time.
I would request the clean up guy to always do my work.
Good info here. And good to check the squarness to the machine with a dial. Now I'd be curious of how square the pistons end up in the bores from front to rear along all the wristpin axes.