BUY THE POSTER! dcauwatchtower.creator-spring.com/listing/manhatted-poster SUPPORT US on Patreon! patreon.com/dcauwatchtower Patreon supporters will be getting access VERY SOON to a big dump of behind-the-scenes photos and videos from our time creating the 3-part story finale. We cannot thank you enough, patrons--YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN! If you'd like to catch up on the story so far, here is the full playlist! th-cam.com/play/PLZ1WxFp2AMZPw6qflnpLXeGmxL6oviqyM.html Ones we'd HIGHLY recommend: - The DCAU's Continuity is Beyond Saving! - Batman The Adventures Continue: WIC? - Will the MULTIVERSE Ever End? - The POISON IVY Clone Theory Explained Lastly, we just wanted to give a huge thank you to EVERYONE who's followed and supported us on this journey. This is by far not the end of the channel, but absolutely a new beginning. We are SO beyond-words excited to finally share this finale with you.
I like to think Bruce Tim watches these and purposely makes things contradict each other just so he can watch you guys slowly go crazy trying to figure it out
Watching all of the scenes with the 2D character in a real world environment made me realize just how much I miss all those old Cartoon Network commercials that used that style (and the similar CGI "City" bumpers, for that matter). I don't know if it's feasible with how much work is involved, but I would love to see more videos feature 2D animated characters like that in the future!
Thank you! Godzilla Mendoza did a great job with Kurt. If you haven’t checked it out yet, I’d recommend our “The DCAU Multiverse: Revisited” video from May, it’s got a few references to CN City!
Really hope said bumpers, plus Crossover Nexus, will eventually bear fruit with an all too serious (but not too serious a la the Crisis on Infinite Earths comics) canon saga of cavalcades.
I guess it’s kinda like a band with their music. BTAS was Bruce Tim’s first album. He made songs in a style he was passionate about, it hit big, everyone admired it, it spawned a bunch of shows and movies made by other people (bands making the same “style of music”) DECADES pass. He’s made *many* “albums” each with different themes and stories in them. In his eyes, they’re not necessarily the same, but they’re all connected because it’s coming FROM HIM. Millions of people can listen to the same song and interpret it differently, everyone can have a different take on it (including the artist). You get a hit or miss situation when you ask the creator what their art *means* because you take away what it could mean to YOU. Which I’d argue is the point of art. But at the same time, depending on who you are, you could get a new/deeper appreciation for the art *because* you know the meaning. Personally, I’m with the Adjacent thought process. Sure things are off and inconsistent, but it’s fun imagining how the stories *could* be connected
Wouldn't the simplest explanation be that the movie is being told from Harley Quinn's point-of-view, making her an unreliable narrator? It leaves room to make this movie, in a way, to be both canon and non-canon at the same time.
To me, when someone is younger, they want to find a way for everything to fit in the same universe, and jump through tons of hoops to INCLUDE lots of different media in the same universe, like when you play with action figures of different brands or try to make your favorite movies fit in the same universe. But when you get older and grumpier, you go out of your way to EXCLUDE content that you have decided you don't like. For example the people that don't like Star Wars episode 8 or Indiana Jones 4.
54:55 - 57:35 This speech is a masterpiece. Everything about is powerful and emotional, and executed as perfectly as the highlight of a project like this can be. Everyone involved with it should be proud of themselves for helping to bring it to life. ❤
Finally! An entire month dedicated to my favorite DC character Adam Strange, and his trademark zeta beam technology! He truly is the linchpin to the entire DCAU! Btw, I was a bit confused by those boomerang-headed robots at the end, what was all that about?
So, Convergence, basically. This movie with Harley Quinn remains the most controversial. Bruce Timm saying Dick is "a player" in canon, except that reputation was largely because of one annual trying to give him and Barbara a history. The exact history they chose is, umm, Didio must've been involved. This feels a lot like Sins Past. Except it's dumb for the opposite reason: No one thought Gwen Stacy was innocent. She'd invited Peter to see _I Am Curious (Yellow)_ after all. With Dick Grayson, we have been told over and over, throughout his adult life, that he's a bit neurotic about such things. It even has the same Sins Past Worst Timing Ever. Sins Past has her have Norman Osborn's children (over the course of a weekend) just before he kills her and now every Marvel artist has to draw Spider-Man looking at the George Washington bridge mournfully, almost as a rite of passage. Now, this annual, takes place in this weird time warp where things happen out of sequence and people are younger than they should be and this sex scene occurs right after the first time he was raped. (Or the first however many times, because, well, yeah.) Let me repeat that: Dick Grayson's reputation as a player is one annual, clearly intended for shippers, which is so incompetently written that it manages to make both ships look bad, and the timeline is completely out of sync with canon (since the first mention of Oracle is in 1988, and once Jason dies, Dick is pretty much in a progressively worse place), and it implies sleeping with Dick is what inspired her to become Oracle because God forbid a woman make any decisions on her own, and the climax of this story (phrasing!) occurs in officially the worst possible time it could occur.
My issue isn't the details you mentioned… though they do bother me. My issue is the broad strokes: The way everyone, including Batman, was insecure and unfocused. Hiding the fact that he was enjoying the music and grandstanding by drinking the milk, kissing Harley on the cheek with Nightwing, smiling at the thought of *burning Floronic Man alive.* None of these match the B:TAS Batman, they feel more like The Brave and the Bold or Lego Batman. Nightwing was constantly playing catch-up and getting sidetracked… it was terrible. There's also how unkind he was. I mentioned the Floronic Man thing above, but there's also his refusal to give Harley a chance, his refusal to show her any courtesy (like the awful bathroom stop scene), his smile after beating the barful of criminals, and his treatment of Booster and the "lesser" League members. In B:TAS, Batman rooted for his enemies to turn over a new leaf. Harley's Holiday, Second Chances, Harlequinade… he wasn't naive (Riddler's Reform and House and Garden), but he wasn't callous either (Lock-Up). The humor in the movie was also off. Not because I didn't like it (I chuckled and laughed a few times), but because it didn't fit the style of B:TAS. In The Animated Series, the humor was character and dialogue driven - a bad pun from Joker or Robin, a side comment from Alfred, an interaction between Bullock or Harley and most other characters. In B&H, the humor is juvenile and subject based - fart jokes, crass sexual humor, swears (often cut short for ratings reasons). I can't think of any Batmanimation that's this """mature,""" though the Harley Quinn cartoon comes the closest. Finally, there's the designs. Nightwing was close enough, but Batman had a blue version of his TNBA costume, the Batmobile was anachronistic, the electric Batarang was different (and treated as new)… it was a mash up more than anything, and that's ignoring that he should be wearing the JLU costume, especially if Dick's been Nightwing for over a decade. The music, the voices (well, two of them), and often the settings felt like B:TAS, but so much else was just _off._ I can see the argument for including it in the DCAU, especially post-Batman Beyond, but there's just too much fundamentally against it.
This was absolutely fantastic!! I couldn’t tune into the livestream but was so excited to get to this and it didn’t disappoint. The court set up into the classic will it canon detail format was so smooth and fun. Kurt being voiced and animated absolutely amazingly added such a fun vibe to everything and brought an interesting character dimension to everything. He fascinated me and really made the whole thing feel cinematic (beyond the already amazing filming and work). The cameos by voice actors and production staff and colorists was so fun and u found myself smiling and saying “oh my gosh!! everyone got to be a part of this that’s so fun!!” The other Matties and Jameses showing up followed by an Amazo speech and them being taken back to their homes was such a good twist and very satisfying. And I know this is skipping right to the end but the message about canon being what is interpreted by the viewer and that we hold onto it so tightly because it makes the characters feel closer and real to us, feel more personal and tangible, was just so so well done and such a poignant and deep message that hit hard. Because it’s true! Art is interpreted by the viewer and is inherently subjective and with something as personal as cartoons that shaped us that adds a different element to all of it. BUT AGHH THE REAL KICKER THE END THE END!! The synthoids were so well animated and the second they showed up I just smiled at my screen. Mattie’s excitement was my excitement. ZETA *MONTH*???? IM SO EXCITED AND SO EXCITED FOR MORE STORY AND MORE WONDERFUL WORK!! You guys always knock it out of the park and this was absolutely worth the wait. Congrats on such a fantastic project getting released and getting all the love it deserves. I’ll be tuning in heavily to every zeta video and truly know we all appreciate all y’all’s work! Congrats congrats congrats, here’s to more database! Far into the future from now, whenever now is…
I can't properly put into words how great this video was, you all put alot of work and thought into it and it definitely shows! Can't believe I've been subscribed to the channel for about 4 Years now and you've re-opened my love for the universe I grew up with. So thank you for all these years of entertaining and educating me on one of the most important franchises in my life.
I don't know what adjective to use to say this video was way way more than good, amazing or incredible but holy moly it was! Let's hope you guys reach millions of views and likes, you truly deserve it! Looking forward big time to what's next, it was worth the waiting time!
Had to wait till I got home from work to watch this. God that was a long shift but absolutely worth it. Your guys' storytelling and passion for these videos and the DCAU as a whole is inspiring.
So cool! As someone who joined this community back in the initial series of Batman and Harley Quinn videos, this really feels like coming full circle. Congratulations team, may the DCAU live on forever!
Man, I love this channel and have been binging it and it deserves SO much more recognition and support. But I don't think lore movies interspersed into the main content just works anymore. I don't know any of the pretext so I just skipped through all of it. Quinton Reviews did it well for me by putting his lore movie entirely at the end of the content for that particular video. Still love the channel just something I personally did not like here. The title and thumbnail and promise of the video premise were just not present in the content I was presented with and I keep getting interjections to a skit I don't understand because I skipped the setup. It's also a bit annoying how you did the nerd voice and made fun of io9 in a lore video. It feels like. Stones glass houses.
Hahaha. I'm really sad that this only has 35k views. Clearly a hell of a lot of work went into this. And it wasn't even needed, which is what makes it so great. Keep it up guys
46:18 “I’m not evil” Also 46:47 me: that’s the thing that makes ya evil dr. Ted! You don’t just move earths into the sun, that’ll kill them all and erase it all!
This was absolutely fantastic! Loved the set. Honestly, your dedication to the DCAU makes me very happy to be a life long fan. Can’t wait to see what’s next!
Kinda miss when "Will it Canon?" Was just James standing in a kitchen set talking about this stuff for a while and then trying to shove a DVD into a canister.
Luckily, those early episodes are still very much available to watch! Hope you have fun revisiting them! 😊 We started conceptualizing this ending very early on (going back through our messages the other night, seems to be around the time of episode 2 or 3?) so it was always planned to head this way, and we wanted to go as big as possible to help make the wait as worth it as possible since covid set us back a bit! That said, if you've made it to the end... now that the fictional me is back from the future, Data James is out of the computer, and *spoilers* is out of the picture, there's a lot of room for us to return to a more stripped down approach. Remember, this took us 4 years to make! It's an event! Not every episode of the show will be this in perpetuity.
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 oh goodness! Thanks for the reply. Don't know why it surprised me so much, I've been responded to on one of your videos before. I totally appreciate the work that must have gone into this ridiculously complex arc. It's on an epic scale and you deserve all the respect. Seriously. Didn't mean to downplay that or anything: and I've definitely enjoyed the ride! "Will it Canon?" has been up there among my favorite segments on the channel since it's inception. I'm not even super into canonicity, I just enjoyed learning about new things that may or may not have been part of the DCAU. For instance it never occurred to me that Teen Titans might be in the same timeline as Justice League TAS. ( I grew up with both.) And exploring that possibility with you guys was fun even though it turned out to be (as I suspected) Not Canon. I am enjoying/have enjoyed this big story arc. Just feeling a little nostalgic for the simplicity of the early days. No shade, you've done a fantastic job making a really cool thing. Keep up the good work!
I grew up watching the Dcau it contains my favorite superhero stories and I was really the only one who watched them being an only child and I thought it was sad that not to many people talk about how cool it was. So when I found out that there was a channel on TH-cam that sole purpose was to discuss all things dcau I subscribed immediately and have enjoyed many videos. But this three part finale was something incredible to watch I had such a fun time picking up on all the references you placed in here to the dcau like the judges in the back having the character design for the judge from TNBA or the prosecutor being that alien from justice league it was all so fun to watch and enjoy and I thank you for making these videos and hope you make more.
Guys, seriously, that was flippin' amazing! I don't know how you pulled it off to such a professional standard, but you deserve all the praise in the world! Oh and that ending! Guys, that ending! This is the most excited I've ever been in a non-sexual way. We're finally getting Zeta, baby!!!!!
If you ask me, I’d say Batman & Harley Quinn takes place after the flashbacks of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, not too long after Joker died, and Harley had no real reason to be Harley Quinn anymore.
This was a fantastic production. Thank you so mucho for your effort from title sequence to credits. I"ve been away as a viewer attempting, like we all are, to put my life together, but my enjoyment is still here. Thank you, again, and greetings from México. P.S. I just remembered I have not gotten my Mr. Wing Lewds. Still waiting for those.
Wait, what about Staro? Was it teliported back to it's univerce too when it fell off of it's host? Or is it floating around, waiting for it's next opretunity for conquest?
Como siempre excelente análisis, lo que más me gusto fueron sus puntos sobre la canonicidad de cualquier universo ficticio, y lo que significa para nosotros , esos personajes son parte de nuestras vidas , y queremos darles sentido , no siempre lo tendrá y tiene uno que aceptarlo, pero no significa que no se pueda buscar que cuadre, solo que no es el principal sentido
Have I already watched this several times? Yes. Will I watch it many more times? Yes. This is fantastic and deserves way more views, watch and share people!
Well now, that was simply fantastic! Awesome job from start to finish. I loved every second of it. Congratulations to everyone involved. Well worth the wait. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you so much! The “I’ve Got Mattie in My Basement” playlist is there for you, but we’ll also be hosting a complete story watch-through with live commentary next Sunday!
I don't think smaller continuity errors make it not canon, you can't expect the creators to know every other entry in the "canon" exactly without some kind of canon master and even someone like Bruce can't remember every tiny detail he made over 20 years ago. There will always be some smaller problems in any new media. However, other movies and shows are clearly not set in the same universe and have large differences. Yeah, the humor of Batman and Harley Quinn is generally more then in BTAS but even that had varying humor from episode to episode, some were really dark and serious, others rather fun so I don't think that proves anything either. Warner will just say whatever earns them most money but I think Bruce likely know what he is talking about. So yeah, my vote is that it is. George Lucas did have people to keep track on continuity for his 6 Star wars movies and yet there are problems and far larger then anything here. For instance didn't Ben recognize the robot he traveled half the galaxy with when he met him in a new hope, R2D2 might have got his memory wiped but Ben spent years with R2D2 and never got his memory wiped and that is just one of many things. So with the continuity thinking, the prequels happened in another universe no matter what Lucas claimed which is pretty ridicoulus. There are even more errors in the new movies but I like to pretend they don't exist. You will never get things perfect, so smaller errors is still fine. Teen Titans and Young Justice however have a large difference that can't just be explained by a few simple mistakes so those are clearly not canon. The Martian Manhunter is the last surviving Martian in Justice league and you could argue that Miss Martian survived too (and J'onn might not have sensed her because she was far away, in cryo sleep or whatever), but in Young Justice the Martians are all doing fine and have at least 1 huge city so it is clearly not canon (and you find lots of things like that there).
If the future of this channel is continuing to make these interconnected films, I'm all for it. That tease for the next project 😉 was absolutely masterful.
The verdict is, canon Is what you want canon to be because like they all said everything in this world is just stories. To create stories you must have ideas and to have ideas you have imagination. Everything you love goes how you believe it goes because in the end......it's how you read and watch the stories unfold. Our imagination makes all those hard to answer questions easy, they are canon to you or they are not. May it be any, it's your opinion....and what I say is enjoy it the way you see it.
There’s a continuity error with Kurt in the episode he appears in season 1 ep 4 of Jl he’s wearing a white robe does this mean this an alternate version of Kurt or is just wearing a new robe🤔
Not a “continuity error,” it was a conscious choice. We wanted him to match the other judges and Manhatted better, to be sure the audience understood he was “on their side.” In our heart canon, this is the same version from the episode. But in the end, it doesn’t really matter. ;)
I was engaged through the entire time, but that final reveal? A WHOLE MONTH, BABY! EDIT: Also, was this video written WAY back? Because I was surprised the appearance of [REDACTED] in the latest season of Young Justice wasn't mentioned during the "canon adjacent" section.
It was indeed filmed almost a year ago. But I did update the “adjacent” segment after that episode aired. It inspired me to add more than I had. But the story is set in 2019, so we wouldn’t have known about that to use in our arguments. Will definitely talk about it whenever we cover GLTAS someday!
Amazing! Absolutely incredible! how does this not have 6 digit numbers yet? Best video this channel ever made, and I'm not just saying that because I'm Mattie on an alt trying to boost our numbers in the algorithm as I stream for the 17th time!
I think continuity is a pain for these types of stories. Harley's ending in the Return of the Joker movie was written at a time when Harley was a very different character. Harley now has evolved so much, that it's a shame that all her growth and development just puts her in a Status quo, from 20 years ago.
Wow. After that powerful speech/debate on canon, I think there’s only truly one thing to ask………..so is like TDKR canon because Bruce Timm worked on it😂😂
I know there's been too many critics saying how bad this film is, but I love it! Bruce Timm and the crew had fun, made it raunchy and to me, simply enjoyable! Not everything had to be so thought provoking that you can't have a little fun once in a while!
umm you guys batman and harley quinn might take place between the end of justice league unlimited and the batman beyond return of the joker flashback sequence that explains why robin (tim drake) is not there cause it is clearly stated the league exists i realize there's minor hiccups in continuity however i'm no expert but still I'm disappointed these points weren't considered
You know, it's funny, this stuff was literally all solved with Hypertime, but fans complained about... not being able to complain... anymore? or something? I'm not too sure... but anyhow, there was a bunch of fan backlash, and now Hypertime basically still _could_ fix everything, but it doesn't. Kinda like how the "it was all a dream" thing got overused at some point; so now after a bunch of wacky, impossible shit goes down, it's just all real, it all happened, it was a strange episode, and no one ever mentions any of the events ever again... but it sure as Hell was not a dream!
So when batman beyond ends the joker movie, at the end we see Harley and at the end of batman and harley, harley has a show, what if thats the hard work she referred to.
Huh. The "In Blackest Night" alien judge is here. Why a buncha Judges though? Forget The Phantom Menace, this movie deserves a lot of hype backlash. 26:48: I don't mind this. Can't blame Batsy for reusing his old vehicles after the modern ones got demolished in JLU ops. 27:18: Hmm, the debatable JL stuff should have been replaced with the more canon-friendly Gotham Girls plus Harley and Ivy. 31:29: Then I'll be ready to fight there. Better watch out, Star Wars Legends' Denning-verse. 35:00: I didn't negatively mind these Batman episodes. They're still canon, no matter their flaws. 35:26: OK, now TZP truly is a skippable mess. Unless it gets a definitive end, at best. 36:04: Tame compared to "Hoop Squad". Now that's a mess, even to its creators. Surprised you didn't talk about Bruce x Barbara, Captain Marvel only getting one antagonistic appearance over the canon, and Dana Tan not getting enough character development when it comes to the DCAU's occasional flaws. Oh, right, this vid sure led to the Zeta Month stuff for this channel.
Why doesn't someone do a fanfiction loosely based on the DC AU Synthoids inspired by the movie A. I. where still functioning damaged synthoids start restoring function to their co-fallen somewhere that the watchtower sends their scrapped equipment to. Did anyone ever cover how and why Zeta's head went to a more humanish pill shape? In the end the framing element on this of the trial padded it out, like my comment is with the fanfiction question and like with other will it cannon just makes it feel like a lot of work for little point. Is that even the end of the character? its not like there was a body left for a he's dead declaration.
![“อ.เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม” มาตามคำเรียกร้อง แหกศาสตร์ฮวงจุ้ย เตือนสติอย่างมงาย | แฉ 7 พ.ย. 67 [1/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5fc4S3xBNfc/mqdefault.jpg)
BUY THE POSTER! dcauwatchtower.creator-spring.com/listing/manhatted-poster
SUPPORT US on Patreon! patreon.com/dcauwatchtower
Patreon supporters will be getting access VERY SOON to a big dump of behind-the-scenes photos and videos from our time creating the 3-part story finale. We cannot thank you enough, patrons--YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN!
If you'd like to catch up on the story so far, here is the full playlist!
th-cam.com/play/PLZ1WxFp2AMZPw6qflnpLXeGmxL6oviqyM.html
Ones we'd HIGHLY recommend:
- The DCAU's Continuity is Beyond Saving!
- Batman The Adventures Continue: WIC?
- Will the MULTIVERSE Ever End?
- The POISON IVY Clone Theory Explained
Lastly, we just wanted to give a huge thank you to EVERYONE who's followed and supported us on this journey. This is by far not the end of the channel, but absolutely a new beginning. We are SO beyond-words excited to finally share this finale with you.
I like to think Bruce Tim watches these and purposely makes things contradict each other just so he can watch you guys slowly go crazy trying to figure it out
I think it's honestly just because Bruce doesn't care to keep up with canon or trying to balance it anymore, I mean it's been like 30 years.
@@Elfenlied8675309I mean honestly story should before cannon.
Watching all of the scenes with the 2D character in a real world environment made me realize just how much I miss all those old Cartoon Network commercials that used that style (and the similar CGI "City" bumpers, for that matter). I don't know if it's feasible with how much work is involved, but I would love to see more videos feature 2D animated characters like that in the future!
Thank you! Godzilla Mendoza did a great job with Kurt. If you haven’t checked it out yet, I’d recommend our “The DCAU Multiverse: Revisited” video from May, it’s got a few references to CN City!
Really hope said bumpers, plus Crossover Nexus, will eventually bear fruit with an all too serious (but not too serious a la the Crisis on Infinite Earths comics) canon saga of cavalcades.
I guess it’s kinda like a band with their music.
BTAS was Bruce Tim’s first album. He made songs in a style he was passionate about, it hit big, everyone admired it, it spawned a bunch of shows and movies made by other people (bands making the same “style of music”)
DECADES pass. He’s made *many* “albums” each with different themes and stories in them. In his eyes, they’re not necessarily the same, but they’re all connected because it’s coming FROM HIM.
Millions of people can listen to the same song and interpret it differently, everyone can have a different take on it (including the artist). You get a hit or miss situation when you ask the creator what their art *means* because you take away what it could mean to YOU. Which I’d argue is the point of art.
But at the same time, depending on who you are, you could get a new/deeper appreciation for the art *because* you know the meaning.
Personally, I’m with the Adjacent thought process. Sure things are off and inconsistent, but it’s fun imagining how the stories *could* be connected
Love this perspective.
Wouldn't the simplest explanation be that the movie is being told from Harley Quinn's point-of-view, making her an unreliable narrator?
It leaves room to make this movie, in a way, to be both canon and non-canon at the same time.
I like this, explains why some characters felt "off"
So, basically every TES in-game book then?
This works too.
Yes.
But also a high cop-out way, which is why it's a last resort if at all.
@@samurexatlas7373 I wouldn't call it a cop out. Many great stories were told through unreliable narrators.
22:52 Kevin’s expression is hilarious. The 😮 is surely a genuine shock for him too. rip Kevin Conroy
To me, when someone is younger, they want to find a way for everything to fit in the same universe, and jump through tons of hoops to INCLUDE lots of different media in the same universe, like when you play with action figures of different brands or try to make your favorite movies fit in the same universe.
But when you get older and grumpier, you go out of your way to EXCLUDE content that you have decided you don't like. For example the people that don't like Star Wars episode 8 or Indiana Jones 4.
Star Wars Episode 8 What that's? Don't make up numbers lol
Such is fanon discontinuity and Multiverse Theory. Also, the occasional canon discontinuity.
54:55 - 57:35
This speech is a masterpiece. Everything about is powerful and emotional, and executed as perfectly as the highlight of a project like this can be.
Everyone involved with it should be proud of themselves for helping to bring it to life. ❤
Finally! An entire month dedicated to my favorite DC character Adam Strange, and his trademark zeta beam technology! He truly is the linchpin to the entire DCAU!
Btw, I was a bit confused by those boomerang-headed robots at the end, what was all that about?
Theory: When Batman & Green Lantern went back in time they subtlely changed the timeline. Making everything in continuity. Or just Parallel Worlds
So, Convergence, basically.
This movie with Harley Quinn remains the most controversial. Bruce Timm saying Dick is "a player" in canon, except that reputation was largely because of one annual trying to give him and Barbara a history. The exact history they chose is, umm, Didio must've been involved. This feels a lot like Sins Past. Except it's dumb for the opposite reason:
No one thought Gwen Stacy was innocent. She'd invited Peter to see _I Am Curious (Yellow)_ after all. With Dick Grayson, we have been told over and over, throughout his adult life, that he's a bit neurotic about such things.
It even has the same Sins Past Worst Timing Ever. Sins Past has her have Norman Osborn's children (over the course of a weekend) just before he kills her and now every Marvel artist has to draw Spider-Man looking at the George Washington bridge mournfully, almost as a rite of passage. Now, this annual, takes place in this weird time warp where things happen out of sequence and people are younger than they should be and this sex scene occurs right after the first time he was raped. (Or the first however many times, because, well, yeah.)
Let me repeat that: Dick Grayson's reputation as a player is one annual, clearly intended for shippers, which is so incompetently written that it manages to make both ships look bad, and the timeline is completely out of sync with canon (since the first mention of Oracle is in 1988, and once Jason dies, Dick is pretty much in a progressively worse place), and it implies sleeping with Dick is what inspired her to become Oracle because God forbid a woman make any decisions on her own, and the climax of this story (phrasing!) occurs in officially the worst possible time it could occur.
But... didn't none of that ever happen?
My issue isn't the details you mentioned… though they do bother me.
My issue is the broad strokes:
The way everyone, including Batman, was insecure and unfocused. Hiding the fact that he was enjoying the music and grandstanding by drinking the milk, kissing Harley on the cheek with Nightwing, smiling at the thought of *burning Floronic Man alive.* None of these match the B:TAS Batman, they feel more like The Brave and the Bold or Lego Batman. Nightwing was constantly playing catch-up and getting sidetracked… it was terrible.
There's also how unkind he was. I mentioned the Floronic Man thing above, but there's also his refusal to give Harley a chance, his refusal to show her any courtesy (like the awful bathroom stop scene), his smile after beating the barful of criminals, and his treatment of Booster and the "lesser" League members. In B:TAS, Batman rooted for his enemies to turn over a new leaf. Harley's Holiday, Second Chances, Harlequinade… he wasn't naive (Riddler's Reform and House and Garden), but he wasn't callous either (Lock-Up).
The humor in the movie was also off. Not because I didn't like it (I chuckled and laughed a few times), but because it didn't fit the style of B:TAS. In The Animated Series, the humor was character and dialogue driven - a bad pun from Joker or Robin, a side comment from Alfred, an interaction between Bullock or Harley and most other characters. In B&H, the humor is juvenile and subject based - fart jokes, crass sexual humor, swears (often cut short for ratings reasons). I can't think of any Batmanimation that's this """mature,""" though the Harley Quinn cartoon comes the closest.
Finally, there's the designs. Nightwing was close enough, but Batman had a blue version of his TNBA costume, the Batmobile was anachronistic, the electric Batarang was different (and treated as new)… it was a mash up more than anything, and that's ignoring that he should be wearing the JLU costume, especially if Dick's been Nightwing for over a decade.
The music, the voices (well, two of them), and often the settings felt like B:TAS, but so much else was just _off._ I can see the argument for including it in the DCAU, especially post-Batman Beyond, but there's just too much fundamentally against it.
Wow, I was not expecting a full on philosophical debate about the nature of continuity!
Same! Like this came out of nowhere.
Wow, great job everyone! This came out so well and it was a blast to watch! I can't believe some of the special effects, also!
Glad you were here dude! Hope you're doing well!
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 I'm glad I caught the premiere, it was a fun time! I hope you're doing well also :)
Now that the storyline is wrapped you guys can finally make a video about aglets and their true sinister purpose
This was absolutely fantastic!! I couldn’t tune into the livestream but was so excited to get to this and it didn’t disappoint. The court set up into the classic will it canon detail format was so smooth and fun. Kurt being voiced and animated absolutely amazingly added such a fun vibe to everything and brought an interesting character dimension to everything. He fascinated me and really made the whole thing feel cinematic (beyond the already amazing filming and work). The cameos by voice actors and production staff and colorists was so fun and u found myself smiling and saying “oh my gosh!! everyone got to be a part of this that’s so fun!!” The other Matties and Jameses showing up followed by an Amazo speech and them being taken back to their homes was such a good twist and very satisfying. And I know this is skipping right to the end but the message about canon being what is interpreted by the viewer and that we hold onto it so tightly because it makes the characters feel closer and real to us, feel more personal and tangible, was just so so well done and such a poignant and deep message that hit hard. Because it’s true! Art is interpreted by the viewer and is inherently subjective and with something as personal as cartoons that shaped us that adds a different element to all of it. BUT AGHH THE REAL KICKER THE END THE END!! The synthoids were so well animated and the second they showed up I just smiled at my screen. Mattie’s excitement was my excitement. ZETA *MONTH*???? IM SO EXCITED AND SO EXCITED FOR MORE STORY AND MORE WONDERFUL WORK!! You guys always knock it out of the park and this was absolutely worth the wait. Congrats on such a fantastic project getting released and getting all the love it deserves. I’ll be tuning in heavily to every zeta video and truly know we all appreciate all y’all’s work! Congrats congrats congrats, here’s to more database! Far into the future from now, whenever now is…
This comment means so much. Thank you!!!
I can't properly put into words how great this video was, you all put alot of work and thought into it and it definitely shows! Can't believe I've been subscribed to the channel for about 4 Years now and you've re-opened my love for the universe I grew up with. So thank you for all these years of entertaining and educating me on one of the most important franchises in my life.
I don't know what adjective to use to say this video was way way more than good, amazing or incredible but holy moly it was! Let's hope you guys reach millions of views and likes, you truly deserve it! Looking forward big time to what's next, it was worth the waiting time!
So excited for everyone to watch this!
Had to wait till I got home from work to watch this. God that was a long shift but absolutely worth it. Your guys' storytelling and passion for these videos and the DCAU as a whole is inspiring.
You guys did such an amazing job. Can’t wait for November. This channel is soooo underrated.
That "YYYYYAAAAHHHH!!!" at the end there was perfect. xD I'm Excited for Zeta Month!
So cool! As someone who joined this community back in the initial series of Batman and Harley Quinn videos, this really feels like coming full circle. Congratulations team, may the DCAU live on forever!
Man, I love this channel and have been binging it and it deserves SO much more recognition and support. But I don't think lore movies interspersed into the main content just works anymore. I don't know any of the pretext so I just skipped through all of it. Quinton Reviews did it well for me by putting his lore movie entirely at the end of the content for that particular video.
Still love the channel just something I personally did not like here. The title and thumbnail and promise of the video premise were just not present in the content I was presented with and I keep getting interjections to a skit I don't understand because I skipped the setup.
It's also a bit annoying how you did the nerd voice and made fun of io9 in a lore video. It feels like. Stones glass houses.
It’s been a running gag, but I getcha. Yeah, this (and Zeta Month that follows) were the big grand finale, it’s over now.
Hahaha. I'm really sad that this only has 35k views. Clearly a hell of a lot of work went into this. And it wasn't even needed, which is what makes it so great. Keep it up guys
I love the Kurtwood Smith/Red Forman jokes in regard to the prosecuter lol
46:18 “I’m not evil”
Also 46:47
me: that’s the thing that makes ya evil dr. Ted! You don’t just move earths into the sun, that’ll kill them all and erase it all!
This was absolutely fantastic! Loved the set. Honestly, your dedication to the DCAU makes me very happy to be a life long fan. Can’t wait to see what’s next!
“Heart canon” is the best thing you guys have ever written
Kinda miss when "Will it Canon?" Was just James standing in a kitchen set talking about this stuff for a while and then trying to shove a DVD into a canister.
Luckily, those early episodes are still very much available to watch! Hope you have fun revisiting them! 😊
We started conceptualizing this ending very early on (going back through our messages the other night, seems to be around the time of episode 2 or 3?) so it was always planned to head this way, and we wanted to go as big as possible to help make the wait as worth it as possible since covid set us back a bit!
That said, if you've made it to the end... now that the fictional me is back from the future, Data James is out of the computer, and *spoilers* is out of the picture, there's a lot of room for us to return to a more stripped down approach.
Remember, this took us 4 years to make! It's an event! Not every episode of the show will be this in perpetuity.
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 oh goodness! Thanks for the reply. Don't know why it surprised me so much, I've been responded to on one of your videos before.
I totally appreciate the work that must have gone into this ridiculously complex arc. It's on an epic scale and you deserve all the respect. Seriously. Didn't mean to downplay that or anything: and I've definitely enjoyed the ride!
"Will it Canon?" has been up there among my favorite segments on the channel since it's inception. I'm not even super into canonicity, I just enjoyed learning about new things that may or may not have been part of the DCAU.
For instance it never occurred to me that Teen Titans might be in the same timeline as Justice League TAS. ( I grew up with both.) And exploring that possibility with you guys was fun even though it turned out to be (as I suspected) Not Canon.
I am enjoying/have enjoyed this big story arc. Just feeling a little nostalgic for the simplicity of the early days. No shade, you've done a fantastic job making a really cool thing. Keep up the good work!
I grew up watching the Dcau it contains my favorite superhero stories and I was really the only one who watched them being an only child and I thought it was sad that not to many people talk about how cool it was. So when I found out that there was a channel on TH-cam that sole purpose was to discuss all things dcau I subscribed immediately and have enjoyed many videos. But this three part finale was something incredible to watch I had such a fun time picking up on all the references you placed in here to the dcau like the judges in the back having the character design for the judge from TNBA or the prosecutor being that alien from justice league it was all so fun to watch and enjoy and I thank you for making these videos and hope you make more.
Thank you, Tabius!
Wow I can’t believe you guys actually replied to me😂 looking forward to the zeta video also looking forward to more legacies of the dcau stories.
@@tabiusthompson8101 Zeta VIDEOS! It's a whole month!
The fact that Shaw exists in this continuity makes me think he still starred in a Steel movie.
I love this video because it makes nerd culture more realized
This has lived up to and surpassed my extremely high expectations. Amazing job, guys!
I have been catching up on your videos. Your special effects, creativity, and content are amazing.
Thank you very much!
Guys, seriously, that was flippin' amazing! I don't know how you pulled it off to such a professional standard, but you deserve all the praise in the world!
Oh and that ending! Guys, that ending! This is the most excited I've ever been in a non-sexual way. We're finally getting Zeta, baby!!!!!
Didn't need to specify your excitedness
If you ask me, I’d say Batman & Harley Quinn takes place after the flashbacks of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, not too long after Joker died, and Harley had no real reason to be Harley Quinn anymore.
This was a fantastic production. Thank you so mucho for your effort from title sequence to credits.
I"ve been away as a viewer attempting, like we all are, to put my life together, but my enjoyment is still here.
Thank you, again, and greetings from México.
P.S. I just remembered I have not gotten my Mr. Wing Lewds. Still waiting for those.
This is amazing, guys. Can't wait to see what's next from you.
Wait, what about Staro? Was it teliported back to it's univerce too when it fell off of it's host? Or is it floating around, waiting for it's next opretunity for conquest?
My son, spelling.
As a person who only wanted to watch for the is it canon and not the story bit: I liked everything about this, including story
Como siempre excelente análisis, lo que más me gusto fueron sus puntos sobre la canonicidad de cualquier universo ficticio, y lo que significa para nosotros , esos personajes son parte de nuestras vidas , y queremos darles sentido , no siempre lo tendrá y tiene uno que aceptarlo, pero no significa que no se pueda buscar que cuadre, solo que no es el principal sentido
Muy cierto
OMGGGG otros hispanohablantes en este canal, que emocion
A Fucking MASTERPIECE this turned out to be. This channel is amazing.
Have I already watched this several times? Yes. Will I watch it many more times? Yes. This is fantastic and deserves way more views, watch and share people!
Kurt! Nice nod, because the Space Prosecutor guy was voiced by Kurtwood Smith.
You got it!
Another certifiable banger from th... Wait... My actual name is on this alt, isnt it?
Well now, that was simply fantastic! Awesome job from start to finish. I loved every second of it. Congratulations to everyone involved. Well worth the wait. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
THAT WAS AMAZING! TOTALLY WORTH THE HYPE! 100/10! Well done guys!
This is amazing!! Glad to see how far y'all have come. :)
Fantastic production value!! Holy shit great job guys, I need a video compilation of it all to watch it in order again now
Thank you so much! The “I’ve Got Mattie in My Basement” playlist is there for you, but we’ll also be hosting a complete story watch-through with live commentary next Sunday!
@@dcauwatchtower That’s sick! Is it going to be recorded and posted on the channel too?
@@DEGdeatonegabbard Probably here on the Podtower!
@@ThePodtower Perfect! Thank you.
I don't think smaller continuity errors make it not canon, you can't expect the creators to know every other entry in the "canon" exactly without some kind of canon master and even someone like Bruce can't remember every tiny detail he made over 20 years ago. There will always be some smaller problems in any new media.
However, other movies and shows are clearly not set in the same universe and have large differences.
Yeah, the humor of Batman and Harley Quinn is generally more then in BTAS but even that had varying humor from episode to episode, some were really dark and serious, others rather fun so I don't think that proves anything either.
Warner will just say whatever earns them most money but I think Bruce likely know what he is talking about. So yeah, my vote is that it is.
George Lucas did have people to keep track on continuity for his 6 Star wars movies and yet there are problems and far larger then anything here. For instance didn't Ben recognize the robot he traveled half the galaxy with when he met him in a new hope, R2D2 might have got his memory wiped but Ben spent years with R2D2 and never got his memory wiped and that is just one of many things. So with the continuity thinking, the prequels happened in another universe no matter what Lucas claimed which is pretty ridicoulus.
There are even more errors in the new movies but I like to pretend they don't exist.
You will never get things perfect, so smaller errors is still fine. Teen Titans and Young Justice however have a large difference that can't just be explained by a few simple mistakes so those are clearly not canon. The Martian Manhunter is the last surviving Martian in Justice league and you could argue that Miss Martian survived too (and J'onn might not have sensed her because she was far away, in cryo sleep or whatever), but in Young Justice the Martians are all doing fine and have at least 1 huge city so it is clearly not canon (and you find lots of things like that there).
This is now my favourite movie of the year!
This video, you mean?
If the future of this channel is continuing to make these interconnected films, I'm all for it. That tease for the next project 😉 was absolutely masterful.
What a way to end the will it canon series (I assume it is the end, right?)
Sure… ;)
Whoever is doing the voice of the Prosecutor does an amazing Kurtwood Smith
I’ll let him know, thank you!
It’s Jason Stephens, by the way. You can find him at his website jasonsvoices.com
The verdict is, canon Is what you want canon to be because like they all said everything in this world is just stories. To create stories you must have ideas and to have ideas you have imagination. Everything you love goes how you believe it goes because in the end......it's how you read and watch the stories unfold. Our imagination makes all those hard to answer questions easy, they are canon to you or they are not. May it be any, it's your opinion....and what I say is enjoy it the way you see it.
You’re describing headcanon, not official canon
Okay, that was the greatest video on the channel. You have outdone yourselves this time honestly. I loved it.
just, wow! this was epic from start to finish.
Better than Doomsday Clock
There’s a continuity error with Kurt in the episode he appears in season 1 ep 4 of Jl he’s wearing a white robe does this mean this an alternate version of Kurt or is just wearing a new robe🤔
Not a “continuity error,” it was a conscious choice. We wanted him to match the other judges and Manhatted better, to be sure the audience understood he was “on their side.” In our heart canon, this is the same version from the episode. But in the end, it doesn’t really matter. ;)
Who did you get to voice the animated prosecuter?
Voice actor/impressionist Jason Stephens! He’s credited in the end credits 🤙
I was engaged through the entire time, but that final reveal? A WHOLE MONTH, BABY!
EDIT: Also, was this video written WAY back? Because I was surprised the appearance of [REDACTED] in the latest season of Young Justice wasn't mentioned during the "canon adjacent" section.
I think it was filmed like a year ago
It was indeed filmed almost a year ago. But I did update the “adjacent” segment after that episode aired. It inspired me to add more than I had. But the story is set in 2019, so we wouldn’t have known about that to use in our arguments. Will definitely talk about it whenever we cover GLTAS someday!
@@dcauwatchtower Oh sweet. Looking forward to it!
Amazing work guys. At the end of the day does canon matter (got emotional here 54:55 )
Amazing! Absolutely incredible! how does this not have 6 digit numbers yet? Best video this channel ever made, and I'm not just saying that because I'm Mattie on an alt trying to boost our numbers in the algorithm as I stream for the 17th time!
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER!!!
This is so perfect. I honestly didn't see that ending coming, can't wait.
Man this was as great as that time poison ivy nearly smothered Batman and robin in those vines, the ones with the really sharp thorns.
I think continuity is a pain for these types of stories. Harley's ending in the Return of the Joker movie was written at a time when Harley was a very different character. Harley now has evolved so much, that it's a shame that all her growth and development just puts her in a Status quo, from 20 years ago.
The writers of Spiderman Across the Spiderverse were taking notes
ABSOLUTE MAD MEN! I LOVE IT ❤️ 😍 💖 ❣️
Pls keep going with these videos, some of the best work on this platform
Can't escape the (spoilers) on any Watchtower video
Wow. After that powerful speech/debate on canon, I think there’s only truly one thing to ask………..so is like TDKR canon because Bruce Timm worked on it😂😂
I know there's been too many critics saying how bad this film is, but I love it! Bruce Timm and the crew had fun, made it raunchy and to me, simply enjoyable! Not everything had to be so thought provoking that you can't have a little fun once in a while!
“I post on the Twitter!” hit me too hard 😂
Ive recently found tour channel and have been watching all your vids. This shit is amazing haha. I love this channel. Please keep up the good work! 👌👌
umm you guys batman and harley quinn might take place between the end of justice league unlimited and the batman beyond return of the joker flashback sequence that explains why robin (tim drake) is not there cause it is clearly stated the league exists i realize there's minor hiccups in continuity however i'm no expert but still I'm disappointed these points weren't considered
We did a timeline video for the movie a few years ago, you’re pretty dang close! Go check it out in our “History of the DCAU” playlist!
Kurt feels like he’s straight out of ATHF lol
Kurt is the best character, i hope he is okay.
The,prosecutors animation is wild! Super good
Thank you! It was by GodzillaMendoza!
You know, it's funny, this stuff was literally all solved with Hypertime, but fans complained about... not being able to complain... anymore? or something? I'm not too sure... but anyhow, there was a bunch of fan backlash, and now Hypertime basically still _could_ fix everything, but it doesn't. Kinda like how the "it was all a dream" thing got overused at some point; so now after a bunch of wacky, impossible shit goes down, it's just all real, it all happened, it was a strange episode, and no one ever mentions any of the events ever again... but it sure as Hell was not a dream!
FANTASTIC
Not bad, pal... not bad at all !
Can't wait for it. I miss these videos 🥲
Amazing Work Everyone 👏
Also ZETA!!! MONTH!!!
So when batman beyond ends the joker movie, at the end we see Harley and at the end of batman and harley, harley has a show, what if thats the hard work she referred to.
The Harley Quinn animated series is not part of the same continuity as "Batman Beyond" / the DCAU
Thought it would count with the canon of the heart and all of that 😅, thanks for rcorrecting me 😊
I feel like I've been waiting years for this😅😅
Yeah sure, the Timmverse is great and all, but I think we're all here for the WatchtowerVerse! 😆
Very annoyed i missed the premier, but still just glad to watch it
Amazing
Can’t wait for zeta month
What the hell youtube didn’t tell me this dropped!!
But you found it! Yay!
@@dcauwatchtower I check the channel every week or two just in case I missed something ♥️
All roads have led us here!!!!
Huh. The "In Blackest Night" alien judge is here. Why a buncha Judges though?
Forget The Phantom Menace, this movie deserves a lot of hype backlash.
26:48: I don't mind this. Can't blame Batsy for reusing his old vehicles after the modern ones got demolished in JLU ops.
27:18: Hmm, the debatable JL stuff should have been replaced with the more canon-friendly Gotham Girls plus Harley and Ivy.
31:29: Then I'll be ready to fight there. Better watch out, Star Wars Legends' Denning-verse.
35:00: I didn't negatively mind these Batman episodes. They're still canon, no matter their flaws.
35:26: OK, now TZP truly is a skippable mess. Unless it gets a definitive end, at best.
36:04: Tame compared to "Hoop Squad". Now that's a mess, even to its creators.
Surprised you didn't talk about Bruce x Barbara, Captain Marvel only getting one antagonistic appearance over the canon, and Dana Tan not getting enough character development when it comes to the DCAU's occasional flaws.
Oh, right, this vid sure led to the Zeta Month stuff for this channel.
good job fantastic job great job
Call Strait made a movie with this one fantastic video really hit home.❤
Is the link to the Legacies of the DCAU comics broken? I'm out of the loop on this
Looks like it. Just brought this up to James! Thanks for the heads up!
Should be fixed now!
So is it canon or not?
I'm excited. I'm also speechless, like how did we get to here WOW!
Why doesn't someone do a fanfiction loosely based on the DC AU Synthoids inspired by the movie A. I. where still functioning damaged synthoids start restoring function to their co-fallen somewhere that the watchtower sends their scrapped equipment to. Did anyone ever cover how and why Zeta's head went to a more humanish pill shape? In the end the framing element on this of the trial padded it out, like my comment is with the fanfiction question and like with other will it cannon just makes it feel like a lot of work for little point. Is that even the end of the character? its not like there was a body left for a he's dead declaration.
Guess you’ll have to check out Zeta Month! It’s all up and available on the channel.
Also love the amount of effort put into this video
I love this channel