I enjoyed this video and we know not everyone was going to like what we did, but we also knew we also had a chance to introduce another generation to the character. Amanda and I are proud of the job we did and no matter what everyone may like or not like, thank you all for giving it a chance.
Judging from the video the series probably would have lost me at about the halfway point. The romance aspect doesn't seem like it was needed and Starfire probably needed some common sense. She may not have a deep understanding of earth culture and humans but she isn't an idiot either. Sex jokes after all do get very old quite quickly.
Seeing this makes me want more! Great worldbuilding, and I hope to see versions of some of these storylines and characters in the future. Also, great art, and I will never turn down cheesecake of any flavor! Continue to be great!
Starfire and controversy just go together. I feel like the TT animated series was at an advantage because it didn't have the sexuality aspect involved. She was looked at as an actual teenager and as a warrior.
It was toned down yet still showed that she would have been open. Like that's honestly how I like sexual shown in hints. When it's too visually blunt it turns people that would have been supportive off even if they do what Starfire would do.
It's bizarre sexuality is still controversial decades after the 60s, and this is coming much more from the left. I'm kind of culturally conservative, and I believe people must understand human biology and control and use it in a sane way. I'm not a utopianist. This attitude is extremely dangerous, coming from either side. Starfire is a liberal character, but she can be used to discuss life situations for teens if she is portrayed in a tasteful but appealing way. She should not be another boring, Wonder Woman like, generic, strong warrior woman. She has complexity, and she isn't an ideological character like many superheroes. She can be three dimensional. Movies like the Frozen cartoons (which are awesome) prove female characters can be better and more meaningful than male ones (and sell more products).
@@chihiromononoke9381 For the ironic "sex-positive, pro-sex-work" types they can be very puritanical. They commonly HATE erotica calling it all problematic since "men" make it ignoring all the female artists... That whole "where are her organs" or them "fixing" people's art. No wonder they think they can fix people's stories. They want "sex" in media yet it is so boring it isn't even hetero it's like this weird problematic "gay" which is just bad hetero relationship tropes with a rainbow shell. They want "sex" without the sexualization or "cheesecake" aspect. That comic spoke on Polyamory and Platonic interaction in a very tasteful way. Yeah, Kori was a whole ditz it is was a slice of life comic at its core. It wasn't another damn universe-ending event we didn't need the warrior princess, Kori, we needed a softer one.
Yeah, that version of Starfire is my favorite version for that. Like ExeErdna said, if the sexual aspect of her is too blunt it turns people off. I don't think it helps this series because we had just come off of Red Hood and The Outlaws.
The Teen Titans Animated series' Starfire will always be my favourite. I loved how, despite understanding so little of earth's customs and culture, she was overjoyed at every new discovery. And how her powers were tied into her emotions, fueling them in contrast to Raven's powers requiring her emotions be kept in check.
Sometimes, as a native English speaker, I stop to think about some of our idioms and how a non native speaker would perceive them. It's a fun exercise.
@@Kynreevezas a native english speaker sometimes i think of (english) idioms and think "What if they were literal?" for non english idioms… i just find 'lost in tranlation' fasioniting
YES, don't get me wrong, I loved that cartoon, but man people now think that's the definitive version and will bash anything that is not like the Teen Titans cartoon, no matter how accurate it is to the comics
@@MiguelGonzalez-du8de My dream is to one day have Bat Mite in a DC adaptation show up and threaten the fandom with canon and then cut to Jason Todd as a tentacle monster, Superman growing a mullet, etc. I know BATB kind of did that but I really want to lean into it
I criticized it because shes just not a good actress . I hate starfire in the titans not to mention they are totally screing up the story line for the redhood they are going to skip death in the family ..I'm happy to have the love action but season 2 was disappointing.
@@Smashmilk the show is trash but I think despite the horrible writing Anna Diop's Kori is actually pretty good probably one of the only bright spots. But the show does do things that aren't comics accurate that people dont even bother criticizing such as Jason's only characteristic is being the "edgy Robin"😭
Anna Diop's Starfire gets criticized for various reasons other than being not comics accurate-some are well thought, some are not; some are overly biased, while others are just down right you know what. With me, the adaptational changes to the character are fine, but the storylines and costumes that they put her in are terrible. Starfire, Raven, and Dove honestly get the worst costuming and it's painful for me to look at. I've seen plenty of cosplayers do more with a fraction of a percent of the budget that the show gets.
Starfire's pet Silkie actually first appeared in the original Teen Titans 2003 series, NOT Teen Titans Go. (Sorry to be that "Umm actually" guy, it's just very rare that I get to drop teen titans 2003 knowledge. I need friends) 😂
“The Titans got through Crisis mostly unscathed.” Me, who was up until the wee hours of the morning last night editing my explanation of how Crisis made Donna Troy’s already-confusing origin a thousand time more convoluted: 😳 “…unless you were Donna Troy.” 😅
"“…unless you were Donna Troy.”" I kind of feel like that is so universally true for every crisis and change in timeline that it doesn't even need to be said any more. A world dies? Donna Troi's back story becomes more complicated. a world comes back comes back? DOnna Troi's backstory becomes more complicated. Wonder woman works at big belly Burger? DOnna Troi's backstory becomes more complicated. At this point, I think her backstory might actually be close to becoming sentient, just through sheer overcomplication.
Crisis ruined much continuity. I think it was a big mistake. For one thing, Earth-Two should have remained a separate reality. I can see the logic of merging the Earths, but it wasn't necessary, and it took away some charm. Much of the problem was how writers revamped the continuity after the event, not exactly Crisis itself (except for in LoSH.) But I would argue the revamp put writers in a position where they would likely make mistakes. I wish they would have used a smarter and softer way to revamp DC. I like the Hypertime concept from the 90s. Hypertime is a good way to explain the tweaks which happened to the Batman mythos overtime, and Batman developed very well (though there were often explanations, sometimes weak, in the Batman comics).
hard to say which artstyle i like more. one is more classically adam hughes defined and outlined, expressive and beautiful. the other has that bruce timm animated mood that i'm just a massive sucker for
I actually liked those little thought bubbles in this series, as they reminded me of moments in the Teen Titans animated series where Starfire confuses idioms, such as the scene in “Sisters” where the Titans are at a club and two boys ask Starfire if she’s digging the scene, and she replied “I did not know we were supposed to bring shovels.”
As co-creator George Perez said when talking about helping to create Starfire: “Koriand’r, she’s so many characters I’ve used: Marilyn Monroe, my first wife, oh gosh, there was a stripper somewhere …” Yup, stripper. LOL I always get a kick out of that.
This Starfire is like the ebodiment of the born-sexy-yesterday trope, she acts like a literal child but also has this extremely tragic backstory that seems to impact her in no way shape or form. It’s just messy and really poor characterization.
@@nivekian no, the animated version (2003 anyway) also delved into her past and gave heavy emotional growth to all 5 main Titans, it was balanced really well with the light-hearted sides, especially for a primarily kids action cartoon at the time. She was out of touch with earth stuff sure, but never stupid or anything
It does come across that way too often. Though I wouldn't say it's consistent throughout. Kinda frustrating but still really enjoyed some moments, especially a lot of the interactions between the main characters. A mixed bag that overall was alright.
I don't like this couple much. I love Starfire, but I'm not a fan of the Robins. Also, it feels like Starfire is exploiting an inferior lifeform. I want to see Starfire make a move on Aquaman (if he doesn't look like a homeless person) when Mera isn't looking (or maybe Aquaman and Mera?) in a story for adults. Zatanna, who should be bisexual, is another possibility. She is Homo Magi. Who wouldn't buy an adult series with Starfire and Zatanna (or Black Canary) as a (temporary) couple???
Though I don't think they should change Black Canary's sexuality. She should be a second wave feminist character. I don't like Oliver Queen though. Both these women should play the field. Maybe DC should take the final step and make Grayson gay or bi. (Fredric Wertham will haunt DC's office.) Steve Trevor and Aquaman are cool, but Grayson and Queen are lame for me and need some adjustments.
@@chihiromononoke9381 you do realize that Superman is an alien and is in a relationship with Lois a human right? Would you describe that as taking advantage of her
Since I only know Starfire from the first Teen Titan tv show, this series capture her beautifully, yet you are right about the drop plot points that the creators could have drop completely to address the other problem from the series you mention. Also towards the end of the New 52, DC had a period in which they let their creator have creative control on some series and this Starfire series is one of them another example was Jim Gordon being the new Batman.
The DC You was an odd era. They were moving away from continuity like they are now. They need multiple imprints and continuities to attract new readers and new talent (this fits DC well), but they also need a solid core continuity. DC sounds like it's becoming a confusing disaster, and I don't understand why. Maybe they need to stop focusing on big, gimmicky ideas from overrated, star creators and act like a real publishing company.
Define "ruin" I wasn't a fan of her comic book characterisation or even Teen Titans (1st animated version) but as a fan of Teen Titans Go! (and a fan of Amanda 'n' Jimmy) , I really enjoyed this series.
The "fans" make superheroes boring. They want Starfire to be another bland Wonder Woman clone. The Starfire in this series is a fun and awesome version.
I see. With Power Girl no longer in the main DC universe, this series was an attempt at using Starfire to fill the hole left in her absence. It makes perfect sense for Kori, she fills Kara's role well, she roughly hits all the same notes as the independent, tall, super strong alien woman who flies and shoots energy blasts. This could have been a fascinating redirection for her character if writers at DC had stuck with it and really fleshed it out after this run.
I agree. Starfire has much potential. She is complex and appealing, and she has room for growth. I love the Power Girl costume with the Superman symbol and no boob window. I also love the New 52 Huntress' costume and her Robin costume. Some good figure of these would be awesome. I like the Huntress in JLU, but I prefer her to be the original.
" _DC had stuck with it and really fleshed it out after this run._ " based on conner and palmiotti's word. DC just gave them a blank canvas to draw starfire,but never promise referencing their work in the future. this was a one-and-done series. the idea of kori replacing power girl/supergirl's place is absurd,because they come from higher books (supes-characters is higher in hierarchy compared to titans-character).
@@chihiromononoke9381 I don't mind the BW, infact I think it works well, but I like the development of her getting the symbol, although imo it should be blue instead of red.
I read this series prior to reading the 80's comics featuring her (her first appearance, the apartheid ones). I enjoyed the art featured, I thought it was pretty nice and felt like it was a match for the vibe of the series. I think looking back, this series was charming but wish that her characterization was different. I feel like she would have been a bit more knowledgeable about earth knowing she was coming back, she can be naive, but I felt like it was a bit much. Although this will have a special place in my heart albeit my critiques and thoughts- it was the first series I ever completed + Starfire has always been my favorite hero.
My good friend is a MASSIVE Amanda and Jimmy fan, so he adored it like I did, because at that point, they we're a absolute Godsend, since Lobdell had a stranglehold on her. But as of now... The Titans have had the entire universe against them, in out of comics. I'm incredibly grateful for this series, art especially (Both versions are appealing), but I get the complaints too, because I've seen more even versions, in the DCAMU movies... Surprisingly.
Honestly, Starfire in the New 52 wasn't that different from the comics. Prior to the reboot the Titan's comic has long since taken a very dark turn with her character. Having her lie to her teammates and kill people in secret without letting them know. essentially the idea of Starfire became a mask she wore so people wouldn't see how she was really suffering. It's fine to not like it, but it didn't start with the New 52.
Was just on HBO Max app watching the old Justice League series and in the episode "Hereafter Part 1" Snapper is a reporter. I know we've moved on to Starfire, who is always cakey and all, but I had to say something because you made me keenly aware of the snap man lol
I think the change in artwork killed some momentum although the writing remained the same. Comics are visual mediums and that change was quite drastic. In addition, I understand the team wanted their own take on the character but that is also what hurts at times, there is a built in audience who can feel disrespected by drastic changes to characters they know and love. This may be why many may have received this series poorly while many other did not. I truly loved your retrospective on the series, very well done thank you Sasha.
6:02. My theory is that this revelas that she never actually understood this stuff at all and has just been coasting by on her friends in the Titans to help her with this stuff.
Personally, my favorite version of Starfire is the version in the animated movies Justice League vs. Teen Titans and Teen Titans: The Judas Contract. Compared to the New 52 comics in general, I thought Star’s characterization as a wise, experienced leader was a breath of fresh air. I will never forgive the DCAMU writers for Justice League Dark: Apokolips War.
You can tell it's an "Amanda Conner + Husband" book if Atlee Terra makes a guest appearance. Between their Post Crisis Supergirl issue, Powergirl Run, This Starfire Run and their New 52 Harley Quinn Run, she makes a lot of guest appearance in that duos books.
Amanda and Jimmy have a deep love for the Terra that appears here. They fleshed her character out in a mini, brought her into Power Girl, and again here. Each time adding more to her world. Its like how Mantis (or some knock of) kept showing up back in the day if her writer had a new assignment.
It has always been hit or miss with Starfire, at least personally. I like her on the team books like the Titans or even the Outlaws. Granted with the Outlaws it wasn't that I didn't like her character, it was her story arcs. This run I didn't enjoy because of the more dizzty characteration that she got. It just wasn't for me. I like her Rebirth design and what she did on the Teen Titans book with Damian. My opinion and take on her character.
I read the first arc of this. I thought it was fine although it didn't blow me away. I actually thought it did a good job of blending the innocent/fish out of water cartoon version with the Nu52 version adding in hints of the pre-Flashpoint version.
Thank you for putting my comment on there!!! It makes me feel so special since this video came out the day before my birthday and yes my birthday is on the 18th lol!! I really did love this series because it expanded so much on what the character has been all these years. I also wanted to say all the complaints you mentioned in this video are from "fans" who never actually read the comics and swear they know her character. I have read Starfire from Judas Contract and have watched the Teen Titans cartoon, Teen Titans Go, Red Hood and The Outlaws, the animated Judas Contract and the Teen Titans TV series and the character has always been foreign and sexualized. Even before the animated TV stuff she always portrayed those ways!!! The reason why Starfire was foreign to Earth culture is because she came from a planet that had a different culture that was with warriors, sex and sadly slavery. It very much resembled Greek culture. But since Earth hasn't been like that for years, she was very foreign on how much things were evolve and didn't understand and it's why she was very open with sex or sexual nature. Anyways, I really enjoyed the series for what it was. It was very enjoyable to see Starfire get know about Earth customs and I even loved her friendship with Atlee. It gave her a very defined character and plus it was nice to see Silkie introduced in the comics. I think Jimmy and Amanda lied that this series was always intended to be 12 issues because they obviously had many unresolved plot lines and they did try to solve them abruptly. That's why I always hate when writers say that and when they should be realistic about how they had no idea that series was gonna get cancelled so soon and wished they had more time. Anyways, I didn't have much a problem with the art change too much because it gave Atlee a definitive origin story on who she was and how she came to be. It's pretty obvious on how much I love Starfire. Great video, Sasha!
I feel dumb that it took me this long to find out Sasha has this other channel from Shippers' Guide, but damn am I happy to hear that “milage may vary” again
Any time a series changes art styles that drastically midway through, it becomes very jarring. I have not read this series, but I've often noticed how the feel of a comic can change based on the artist even if the writing doesn't change.
The art really is gorgeous and I like when a series has a clear beginning and end, even if plot points in the middle aren’t always wrapped up perfectly. The side characters seemed interesting too which isn’t always the case for solo series
I loved this series. It was fun! The first eleven issues, that is. Then I managed to completely miss picking up issue twelve, and have never gotten round to tracking it down since. So now I finally know what happened in it! Thanks! I did drop the new 52 Harley Quinn series somewhere around the late twenties in terms of issues, because it was fun but it was never going to go anywhere. So I think a twelve issue run is a pretty good idea..
I see that Berserk omnibus on your shelf. We need a Berserk deep dive now, id love to hear your opinion on it. Honestly it's probably one of the best Manga series ever made. Anyways I didn't know about this series and I love Starfire. She's always had a really cool history. More Titans and Starfire videos please! Btw Great video!
As a Starfire fan, I read this entire run, even after hearing that a lot of people weren't fans of it. I don't see the reason for the backlash, I thought it was cute and relatively harmless.
I think everyone was expecting her to be restored to her old self following the New 52’s characterization which is probably why a lot of people got angry and the New 52 Kory fans felt betrayed also since the book pretended RHATO never happened
@@kory7698, that's fair, as by the end of RHATO she was leaning strongly in the direction of returning to her previous characterization. I didn't really read New52 stuff in order, so my experience with the topical run was already disconnected from her previous appearances post-flashpoint.
The first ever DC comic I bought was issue #1 of New 52 Harley Quinn. One thing that struck me about it was how a seemingly inordinate amount of time was spent dealing with the precise amounts of money Quinn had to collect in rent from various apartment tenants in order to pay for the upkeep of her building. (I was like: "This is exactly the sort of minutiae I used to put in amateur comics I wrote as a kid. I guess you don't have to be Shakespeare to write comics after all.") Those cells at 6:20 and 6:40 reminded me of that Harley Quinn comic: again, the same curious interest in precisely how this superhero is going to earn money to pay mundane living expenses. It finally made sense when you mentioned at the end of the video that the same writer/artist team did both of these comics.
Can we get an Atlee retrospective? I feel like pre-52 she's basically just Tern Titans Starfie to Power Girl's straight man, while here, her initial foreign nature feels underplayed and like maybe she should've been able to give Kori better advice. Then there's the Harley Quinn series where Atlee's... around. Anyway, great video, Atlee retrospective would be appreciated.
Sounds Interesting. I watched Teen Titans and loved her as a character. For this channel I expect some things planned or semi planned (like vids on characters if movies of them or shows are comming out, but if you decide to do say Howard the Duck or Condiment King I am fine with that too. As your opening always states this is where we talk casually about comics, or whenever our whims take us.
I'm so glad I found your channel. I liked the covering of the ruination of Zatanna's character and the Jimmy Olsen marrying Supergirl and now this. I LOVE Starfire and this series was meh to me. Just wish ppl would stop making the comic version more like the cartoon version.
Personally I always really liked this series when I read it I definitely agree with your points about it being a little rushed at the end. I definitely preferred this reason I have her over the one in red hood and the outlaws. I also really enjoyed her in the rebirth teen titans run.
9:03 I NEED THIS SIDEBAR. I feel like you'd be an excellent person to talk about Starfire's black coding in an objective way, with significant and relevant input. I GOTTA SEE DAT VID PLEASE PLEASE
I feel like thats who Starfire had been for thirty years in comics, now make her fresh off the boat and forget all of the awful things she witnessed as a Titan. The biggest complaint Ive seen was 'you had the chance to make her the way Ive seen her on TV!' A few years on after Rebirth and shes who she always was in comics again.
I feel like this could be a good intro into the DC Universe for new readers, depending on which part of the run they came in on. The vacation would be hard to spread into the rest of the universe but the Grayson "crossover" for lack of a better word could be intriguing for some readers. Granted I don't remember what that Grayson run was like and haven't read it myself but then that would lead to Batman and all the rest of the world. Providing they hadn't already been reading that sort of thing.
Lupaccinos artwork shines in that issues she drew, shame they switched before the series ended. Overall I truly liked the series, but the change from superb artwork to something very different and in my opinion not so beautiful always bugs me.
Honestly I love this book especially after I saw how badly Starfire was handled in Red Hood and The Outlaws. Here though this book's version of Kori felt like a mix between her Pre New 52 and 2003 animated series incarnations.
I remember reading this and really enjoying it! I also did think this was her first time she was on earth based on how she was acting and the backstory! And I am also one of those coriander people who only taste soap
I really enjoyed this video and thank you for articulating everything I felt very eloquently. While I didn’t hate this series, I also didn’t love it. I love Starfire and felt that this downplayed her warrior princess upbringing and her leadership capabilities.
It sounds like a fun little series and an interesting take on the character. I always have issues with the "I don't get idioms" comedy trope, but that is a minor point. Sounds like the authors were setting up some lore for others to take or leave, and that they themselves could farm for content later. But at this point it seems like any version of any character is going to make someone mad. Great reason just to make the best stories you can. You are also your own audience!
I was unaware of this series before this video. Honestly, I might give it a try: I'm a huge fan of Star Fire because there's so much you can do with her, so many different ways to interpret her character, and I've always been interested in the ways that people write her. I wasn't the biggest fan of the way she was portrayed in Red Hood and the Outlaws, but I also didn't hate it, either, so this could be an interesting take, too
I know this off topic but I just love how your wig Applications have gotten Laid to the gods and I see a hint of baby hairs I remember first watching when you were doing colour wigs for fun which I thought was so cool but this is my fist video in a while and I noticed how nice your wig was laid I like it (I too wear wigs so it much appreciated for the wig girls who love comics )
I did not read this series, but I was well aware of how controversial her time with Red Hood and the Outlaws was. This sounds like just what Starfire needed at that time. A gentle transition from the highly questionable characterization of the RHatO book into a much more palatable little pocket of continuity-optional tales. And an enjoyable tale as well. As long as readers are made aware in advance that the continuity will be loose to the point of arguably being unwelcome and that the character will walk a fine line between bimbo and naive on the path of learning, this sounds like a very enjoyable series - albeit one that might as well be an Elseworlds far as continuity goes. But then again, the whole New 52 had dubious canonicity even with itself from day one.
Bought the solo series. Kept hoping it would get better. My biggest complaint was that I felt that for being on Earth for quite awhile, it felt like she just got there. Outlaw title didn't upset me, but the series didn't draw me in.
PANTS KORY have you tried PANTS!?! God I love the dynamics in this series. Such fixation on her legs. I mean god love her she WAS trying. It's strange you didnt bring up Superman first suggesting keywest and being the one at the end telling her about the superheroe community having a place for her. Ending where it began as it were.
@Will N That might have been my bad. I should have put that in quotations. That's a quote from the sherrif to Kory upon shopping with her and the only thing Korriand'r is picking out are more swimsuits or lingerie (there was also some talk of her wearing something that wasn't dental floss). The Handsome man that runs one of the clothing stores they visit gives her a skirt that ties off to the side, the conversation went something like: Sherrif: I thought I told you pants! Shopkeep: Honey have you seen those legs? it would be a CRIME to cover those up!
I didn’t get into superheroes until 2012 - 2013, but even then my first exposure to superheroes was definitely Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man trilogy and THE TEEN TITANS CARTOON (back when CN was good). This characterization of her character had always stuck with me. Fast forward to 2013, and when I was reading and collecting comics… I WAS FURIOUS WITH RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS! Especially when comparing it to the 1980’s comics by Marv Wolfman and George Perez! Her own series in New 52 didn’t piss me off; it was a neat blend of Kori’s sex appeal and her figuring out who she is outside of being a Titan or an Outlaw. It was a more slice of life comic I enjoyed.
FYI, I was once on a cruise Amanda and Jimmy were on and we were at Key West, so I asked them about it. The just really like Key West and considered getting a place there once, so that's why they picked it for Kori.
Me loving this series is mainly because I loved Amanda and Jimmy’s Power Girl from the late 2000s. The tone is very similar, and without that much comic book Starfire knowledge I really loved it. Also, it brought back their Terra (Atlee) who I really missed as my favourite Terra. She had only really showed up in that Power Girl run.
Wow I did not know this little series existed lol 😆 My first intoeduction to Starfire was with the 2003-06 series, so I became a really big Teen Titans fan from that. I remember being quite disheartened by the New52 reboot and Starfire going off with the red hood series, as to me the team that I had grown to love no longer existed ahaha. Also I really didn't like what happened with Raven. Like she was my favorite character, and her redesign in the New52 was jarring to me and oh I guess she's with trigon now??? That was my thought process and so I kinda dropped everything bc of New52 and just went into despair lol. At the very least I could re-run Teen Titans 03-06 haha. But yeah, so this is interesting. I like seeing your videos bc it lets me learn things I didn't know before or helps me find out what happened to plot treads that moved on after I left. So thanks so much for these :)
It did? I loved it! It's actually one of the series that got me to start reading DC regularly. I was like "hey, it doesn't always have to be gore and tie-ins to a bajillion events going on. Comics can be cute and charming."
That Emo Fluid thing is jarring if you haven't heard of it before. I learned about it in Powergirl (2009) #12. Don't know where it started, but seeing it in Powergirl felt like "Look, this is the last issue we have this artist, so we're giving her portfolio material."
It’s kind of odd how Starfire isn’t treated exceptionally well by writers and creators. People noticed that with the first Titans design and the comic about her goth daughter that no one liked.
How can someone say they don’t even like the comic about her goth daughter when that comic hasn’t even come out. They just look at the image for the cover and declare that it won’t be good because her daughter is goth and not skinny which has some pretty bad implications. They judge something without even giving it a chance.
I had mixed feelings on this series. I did like the art and some of the humor, but honestly I do think it's harder for characterizations from TV shows to make sense back in comics, and this is especially true for Starfire and Raven. The creators did do a good job of bringing her lovingness and kindness to the forefront, because those were definitely big parts of her character from the 80s run, but the other parts like the focus on her being the cutesy, naive girl-next-door type of character (despite her free love mentality) just seems to me like she's a caricature rather than a 3D character. It's hard to reconcile her "what does that expression mean?" with her "I'm absolutely willing to kill if necessary, sorry if that bothers you Dick", which was a key part of her characterization in the 80s. Continuity wise it also doesn't make sense for this to be the same Starfire who pretended to not remember her Titans friends during the Outlaws run, and who showed the same willingness to kill that Jason and Roy did. The series just feels pretty out of tone with the rest of canon to me. It's not unlikeable, it's just harder to swallow for me.
I realize that this comic isn't for everyone, but it was for me. Even though I love the medium, a lot of comics aren't my thing, so it's cool when there's something that I can vibe with!
@@chihiromononoke9381 Read Alternative and Underground Comics. You find dizzying variety when you move away from the Big Two. Love and Rockets is a good start. A punk comic from 1980, by 3 brothers, Los Bros Hernandez, with many great and interesting characters. My favourites are the couple Maggie and Hopey, two fun punk girls.
*Teen Titian Go sprinkles a bit of salt on everything* Hurt in open wound but also great in Salty n Sweet treat maybe like cheesecake in the master chief hands. XD Beside my actual thought... This looks kinda cute and amazing story appreciate the ton of cheesecake. Seeing these incarnation sorta mix one interesting. The beginning from what heard sad seen feel interconnected while the ending is for ending all the plots. This fun story is fun adventure and silkie is a cutie!!! Just look at little things...
I feel like they factory restored Starfire's personality in this story. She's more like she was when I was growing up, but, she doesn't have the same experience she did by the time I was first introduced to her comic counterpart. Also, Sasha, you're most definitely my wcw.
I loved this series, probably because I love anything by Conner & Palmiotti, especially where her art is involved. I'd read more superhero comics if more superhero comics were as fun, lighthearted and unbound by stifling continuity maintenance (the absolute worst f_____g thing about contemporary Marvel/DC storytelling). I especially like their dedication to breaking female characters free of their dedicated ships and roles -- and their completely unapologetic embrace of playful "cheesecake" sex appeal that never seems degrading or exploitative. Short of Grant Morrison getting to write a couple hundred more issues of Flex Mentallo, their work is basically my superhero comics ideal.
Please do an in-depth video about Starfire's black coding!!! I've got a lot of weird feelings about it as someone who was first introduced to the character as she was in the 80s and seeing how she's been sexualized over the years...
I passed on reading this series due to how little I enjoyed her in the Redhood comic (she felt cold to me)… this looks like fun though. It looks like it has a strong Harley Quinn comic vibe and, I can already tell that a crossover would have been bananas.
Totally forgot about this series. I remember liking it at the time, but the ending did feel rushed to me, regardless of what the creators said about completing a planned 12 issues. I actually liked the toning down of the sexpot New 52 version, and the attempt to merge aspects of New Titans and Go. The Silkie thing bothered me both for the ick factor of mind alteration as well as the New Powers as the Plot Demands trope. I don't remember any prior version of Silkie doing this, and it seemed like a convenient way of forcing the story. Also, wasn't there a giant gross version of Silkie in the comics during the Johns run? Like they did with the horrific version of Wonder Dog?
I enjoyed this video and we know not everyone was going to like what we did, but we also knew we also had a chance to introduce another generation to the character. Amanda and I are proud of the job we did and no matter what everyone may like or not like, thank you all for giving it a chance.
I loved it Starfire was fun and attentive to her friends it was nice to read a book like this every once in a while
you did a shit job
@@ifirit bro. 🤦
Judging from the video the series probably would have lost me at about the halfway point. The romance aspect doesn't seem like it was needed and Starfire probably needed some common sense. She may not have a deep understanding of earth culture and humans but she isn't an idiot either. Sex jokes after all do get very old quite quickly.
Seeing this makes me want more! Great worldbuilding, and I hope to see versions of some of these storylines and characters in the future. Also, great art, and I will never turn down cheesecake of any flavor! Continue to be great!
Starfire and controversy just go together. I feel like the TT animated series was at an advantage because it didn't have the sexuality aspect involved. She was looked at as an actual teenager and as a warrior.
It was toned down yet still showed that she would have been open. Like that's honestly how I like sexual shown in hints. When it's too visually blunt it turns people that would have been supportive off even if they do what Starfire would do.
It's bizarre sexuality is still controversial decades after the 60s, and this is coming much more from the left. I'm kind of culturally conservative, and I believe people must understand human biology and control and use it in a sane way.
I'm not a utopianist. This attitude is extremely dangerous, coming from either side. Starfire is a liberal character, but she can be used to discuss life situations for teens if she is portrayed in a tasteful but appealing way.
She should not be another boring, Wonder Woman like, generic, strong warrior woman. She has complexity, and she isn't an ideological character like many superheroes. She can be three dimensional.
Movies like the Frozen cartoons (which are awesome) prove female characters can be better and more meaningful than male ones (and sell more products).
@@chihiromononoke9381 you're focusing on just the one thing. In the comics her looks could outshine her skills.
@@chihiromononoke9381 For the ironic "sex-positive, pro-sex-work" types they can be very puritanical. They commonly HATE erotica calling it all problematic since "men" make it ignoring all the female artists... That whole "where are her organs" or them "fixing" people's art. No wonder they think they can fix people's stories. They want "sex" in media yet it is so boring it isn't even hetero it's like this weird problematic "gay" which is just bad hetero relationship tropes with a rainbow shell. They want "sex" without the sexualization or "cheesecake" aspect. That comic spoke on Polyamory and Platonic interaction in a very tasteful way. Yeah, Kori was a whole ditz it is was a slice of life comic at its core. It wasn't another damn universe-ending event we didn't need the warrior princess, Kori, we needed a softer one.
Yeah, that version of Starfire is my favorite version for that. Like ExeErdna said, if the sexual aspect of her is too blunt it turns people off. I don't think it helps this series because we had just come off of Red Hood and The Outlaws.
The Teen Titans Animated series' Starfire will always be my favourite. I loved how, despite understanding so little of earth's customs and culture, she was overjoyed at every new discovery. And how her powers were tied into her emotions, fueling them in contrast to Raven's powers requiring her emotions be kept in check.
The animated series was a masterpiece. I'm pissed that it ended so abruptly to this day.
As a non-native English speaker I must admit that I too oftentimes imagine different English phrases just as literally as Kori does.
Sometimes, as a native English speaker, I stop to think about some of our idioms and how a non native speaker would perceive them. It's a fun exercise.
@@Kynreevezas a native english speaker sometimes i think of (english) idioms and think "What if they were literal?"
for non english idioms… i just find 'lost in tranlation' fasioniting
It’s funny when some people criticized Anna Diop’s version for not being accurate and then bring up the animated series 💀
YES, don't get me wrong, I loved that cartoon, but man people now think that's the definitive version and will bash anything that is not like the Teen Titans cartoon, no matter how accurate it is to the comics
@@MiguelGonzalez-du8de My dream is to one day have Bat Mite in a DC adaptation show up and threaten the fandom with canon and then cut to Jason Todd as a tentacle monster, Superman growing a mullet, etc.
I know BATB kind of did that but I really want to lean into it
I criticized it because shes just not a good actress . I hate starfire in the titans not to mention they are totally screing up the story line for the redhood they are going to skip death in the family ..I'm happy to have the love action but season 2 was disappointing.
@@Smashmilk the show is trash but I think despite the horrible writing Anna Diop's Kori is actually pretty good probably one of the only bright spots.
But the show does do things that aren't comics accurate that people dont even bother criticizing such as Jason's only characteristic is being the "edgy Robin"😭
Anna Diop's Starfire gets criticized for various reasons other than being not comics accurate-some are well thought, some are not; some are overly biased, while others are just down right you know what.
With me, the adaptational changes to the character are fine, but the storylines and costumes that they put her in are terrible. Starfire, Raven, and Dove honestly get the worst costuming and it's painful for me to look at. I've seen plenty of cosplayers do more with a fraction of a percent of the budget that the show gets.
Starfire's pet Silkie actually first appeared in the original Teen Titans 2003 series, NOT Teen Titans Go. (Sorry to be that "Umm actually" guy, it's just very rare that I get to drop teen titans 2003 knowledge. I need friends) 😂
lmao your time is now
👍
@@CasuallyComics can you do your opinion on the killing joke movie and what you would have add to it if you could tomorrow or on Monday please
Silkie and Starfire (all versions) are awesome.
Lol I'm always happy to hear random comic/comic show facts.
“The Titans got through Crisis mostly unscathed.”
Me, who was up until the wee hours of the morning last night editing my explanation of how Crisis made Donna Troy’s already-confusing origin a thousand time more convoluted: 😳
“…unless you were Donna Troy.”
😅
Tbf it wasn't all Crisis fault. John Byrne also screwed her pretty badly
Plus Kole died in the crisis. She's was introduced right before it.
"“…unless you were Donna Troy.”"
I kind of feel like that is so universally true for every crisis and change in timeline that it doesn't even need to be said any more. A world dies? Donna Troi's back story becomes more complicated. a world comes back comes back? DOnna Troi's backstory becomes more complicated. Wonder woman works at big belly Burger? DOnna Troi's backstory becomes more complicated. At this point, I think her backstory might actually be close to becoming sentient, just through sheer overcomplication.
If Identity Crisis was a person, it would be Donna Troy.
Crisis ruined much continuity. I think it was a big mistake. For one thing, Earth-Two should have remained a separate reality. I can see the logic of merging the Earths, but it wasn't necessary, and it took away some charm.
Much of the problem was how writers revamped the continuity after the event, not exactly Crisis itself (except for in LoSH.) But I would argue the revamp put writers in a position where they would likely make mistakes.
I wish they would have used a smarter and softer way to revamp DC. I like the Hypertime concept from the 90s.
Hypertime is a good way to explain the tweaks which happened to the Batman mythos overtime, and Batman developed very well (though there were often explanations, sometimes weak, in the Batman comics).
This version of Silkie is very cute though. Like a little baby Mothra!!
Silkie and Starfire are awesome!
I love the thought bubbles showing Starfire's interpretation of idioms
That's a great touch!
hard to say which artstyle i like more. one is more classically adam hughes defined and outlined, expressive and beautiful. the other has that bruce timm animated mood that i'm just a massive sucker for
I love them both! They're just very different lol so it's like bam!
@@CasuallyComics The first artist is amazing. She also drew some issues of New 52 Supergirl which was a cool series.
@@CasuallyComics oh yeah, no joke the whiplash is real.
I do like the more stylized latter artstyle, even if the first one is also beautiful.
I actually liked those little thought bubbles in this series, as they reminded me of moments in the Teen Titans animated series where Starfire confuses idioms, such as the scene in “Sisters” where the Titans are at a club and two boys ask Starfire if she’s digging the scene, and she replied “I did not know we were supposed to bring shovels.”
As co-creator George Perez said when talking about helping to create Starfire: “Koriand’r, she’s so many characters I’ve used: Marilyn Monroe, my first wife, oh gosh, there was a stripper somewhere …”
Yup, stripper. LOL I always get a kick out of that.
That first artist... wow, she's incredible.
You got everything but do you have “RECEIPTS!?”
This Starfire is like the ebodiment of the born-sexy-yesterday trope, she acts like a literal child but also has this extremely tragic backstory that seems to impact her in no way shape or form. It’s just messy and really poor characterization.
In animated form, apparently on pont. The comic character has always been more emotionally mature and not as bimbo-ish under good writers.
@@nivekian no, the animated version (2003 anyway) also delved into her past and gave heavy emotional growth to all 5 main Titans, it was balanced really well with the light-hearted sides, especially for a primarily kids action cartoon at the time. She was out of touch with earth stuff sure, but never stupid or anything
Not even wrong. This is an awesome Starfire. Though this is a good point.
It does come across that way too often. Though I wouldn't say it's consistent throughout. Kinda frustrating but still really enjoyed some moments, especially a lot of the interactions between the main characters. A mixed bag that overall was alright.
I think that comes from DC grafting her personality from the animated show onto the sexy alien character from the comics.
Man, I never thought of how much cake there is between star and nightwing. That's some power couple!
I don't like this couple much. I love Starfire, but I'm not a fan of the Robins. Also, it feels like Starfire is exploiting an inferior lifeform.
I want to see Starfire make a move on Aquaman (if he doesn't look like a homeless person) when Mera isn't looking (or maybe Aquaman and Mera?) in a story for adults.
Zatanna, who should be bisexual, is another possibility. She is Homo Magi. Who wouldn't buy an adult series with Starfire and Zatanna (or Black Canary) as a (temporary) couple???
Though I don't think they should change Black Canary's sexuality. She should be a second wave feminist character.
I don't like Oliver Queen though. Both these women should play the field. Maybe DC should take the final step and make Grayson gay or bi. (Fredric Wertham will haunt DC's office.)
Steve Trevor and Aquaman are cool, but Grayson and Queen are lame for me and need some adjustments.
@@chihiromononoke9381 I’m glad you not in charge of comics as you said fans make everything boring
@@chihiromononoke9381 how did it feel like starfire was exploiting him in the oh series it seemed like a loving relationship
@@chihiromononoke9381 you do realize that Superman is an alien and is in a relationship with Lois a human right? Would you describe that as taking advantage of her
Since I only know Starfire from the first Teen Titan tv show, this series capture her beautifully, yet you are right about the drop plot points that the creators could have drop completely to address the other problem from the series you mention. Also towards the end of the New 52, DC had a period in which they let their creator have creative control on some series and this Starfire series is one of them another example was Jim Gordon being the new Batman.
The DC You was an odd era. They were moving away from continuity like they are now. They need multiple imprints and continuities to attract new readers and new talent (this fits DC well), but they also need a solid core continuity.
DC sounds like it's becoming a confusing disaster, and I don't understand why. Maybe they need to stop focusing on big, gimmicky ideas from overrated, star creators and act like a real publishing company.
“Unless you’re Donna Troy” Ain’t that the truth! LOL
Donna Troy: The Titan who could never catch a break.
I'm so happy Donna got her time to shine in the Titans show, now if only they could've kept her in the DC Superhero Girls cartoon.
@@amandak.5967 I agree 100%. I wish they would have kept her.
So Starfire I guess was a real Hamlet
To kill or not to kill?
To be quirky or not to be quirky?
To button or not to unbutton?
Hmmm. This is a good and three dimensional character.
You know what they say: Don't ruin a fan favorite character because the fans will have a field day.
Define "ruin"
I wasn't a fan of her comic book characterisation or even Teen Titans (1st animated version) but as a fan of Teen Titans Go! (and a fan of Amanda 'n' Jimmy) , I really enjoyed this series.
The "fans" make superheroes boring. They want Starfire to be another bland Wonder Woman clone. The Starfire in this series is a fun and awesome version.
And this is why we need multiple continuities and imprints. It's the only real way to attract new readers. Fandom is a cult.
@@chihiromononoke9381 what do you mean by Wonder Woman clone I don’t see her that’s way
@@chihiromononoke9381 Wonder Woman clone? She's anything but, man
I see. With Power Girl no longer in the main DC universe, this series was an attempt at using Starfire to fill the hole left in her absence. It makes perfect sense for Kori, she fills Kara's role well, she roughly hits all the same notes as the independent, tall, super strong alien woman who flies and shoots energy blasts. This could have been a fascinating redirection for her character if writers at DC had stuck with it and really fleshed it out after this run.
I liked the Power Girl comic too.
@@nicholase82 Power Girl and Harley was really fun. They most warped version of "Superman and Batman"
I agree. Starfire has much potential. She is complex and appealing, and she has room for growth. I love the Power Girl costume with the Superman symbol and no boob window. I also love the New 52 Huntress' costume and her Robin costume. Some good figure of these would be awesome. I like the Huntress in JLU, but I prefer her to be the original.
" _DC had stuck with it and really fleshed it out after this run._ "
based on conner and palmiotti's word. DC just gave them a blank canvas to draw starfire,but never promise referencing their work in the future. this was a one-and-done series. the idea of kori replacing power girl/supergirl's place is absurd,because they come from higher books (supes-characters is higher in hierarchy compared to titans-character).
@@chihiromononoke9381 I don't mind the BW, infact I think it works well, but I like the development of her getting the symbol, although imo it should be blue instead of red.
I read this series prior to reading the 80's comics featuring her (her first appearance, the apartheid ones). I enjoyed the art featured, I thought it was pretty nice and felt like it was a match for the vibe of the series. I think looking back, this series was charming but wish that her characterization was different. I feel like she would have been a bit more knowledgeable about earth knowing she was coming back, she can be naive, but I felt like it was a bit much. Although this will have a special place in my heart albeit my critiques and thoughts- it was the first series I ever completed + Starfire has always been my favorite hero.
My good friend is a MASSIVE Amanda and Jimmy fan, so he adored it like I did, because at that point, they we're a absolute Godsend, since Lobdell had a stranglehold on her. But as of now... The Titans have had the entire universe against them, in out of comics. I'm incredibly grateful for this series, art especially (Both versions are appealing), but I get the complaints too, because I've seen more even versions, in the DCAMU movies... Surprisingly.
I love their versions of Harley Quinn and Starfire.
They are my favorite comic book duo next to Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Bagley
Honestly, Starfire in the New 52 wasn't that different from the comics. Prior to the reboot the Titan's comic has long since taken a very dark turn with her character. Having her lie to her teammates and kill people in secret without letting them know. essentially the idea of Starfire became a mask she wore so people wouldn't see how she was really suffering. It's fine to not like it, but it didn't start with the New 52.
@@masterDarts4188 And she was always kind of porny. The 2015, DC You version is a big improvement which doesn't loose the appeal of the character.
@generationwest i remember watching you
This is not the universe I am often compelled to watch, but I appreciate your theme appropriate hair.
Casually Comics: "Come for the comics, stay for the hair."😉
Was just on HBO Max app watching the old Justice League series and in the episode "Hereafter Part 1" Snapper is a reporter. I know we've moved on to Starfire, who is always cakey and all, but I had to say something because you made me keenly aware of the snap man lol
Lol I'm nowhere near done with the magic of Snapper Carr
@@CasuallyComics awesome
He's in young justice too
Love the hair.
I think the change in artwork killed some momentum although the writing remained the same. Comics are visual mediums and that change was quite drastic.
In addition, I understand the team wanted their own take on the character but that is also what hurts at times, there is a built in audience who can feel disrespected by drastic changes to characters they know and love. This may be why many may have received this series poorly while many other did not.
I truly loved your retrospective on the series, very well done thank you Sasha.
6:02. My theory is that this revelas that she never actually understood this stuff at all and has just been coasting by on her friends in the Titans to help her with this stuff.
Personally, my favorite version of Starfire is the version in the animated movies Justice League vs. Teen Titans and Teen Titans: The Judas Contract. Compared to the New 52 comics in general, I thought Star’s characterization as a wise, experienced leader was a breath of fresh air.
I will never forgive the DCAMU writers for Justice League Dark: Apokolips War.
You can tell it's an "Amanda Conner + Husband" book if Atlee Terra makes a guest appearance.
Between their Post Crisis Supergirl issue, Powergirl Run, This Starfire Run and their New 52 Harley Quinn Run, she makes a lot of guest appearance in that duos books.
"I have cheesecake" my favorite combination of dairy products and baked goods. Especially when Starfire's baking, heyo
Facts
Your hair changes more frequently than Black Widow's and I'm all for it
Amanda and Jimmy have a deep love for the Terra that appears here. They fleshed her character out in a mini, brought her into Power Girl, and again here. Each time adding more to her world. Its like how Mantis (or some knock of) kept showing up back in the day if her writer had a new assignment.
It has always been hit or miss with Starfire, at least personally. I like her on the team books like the Titans or even the Outlaws. Granted with the Outlaws it wasn't that I didn't like her character, it was her story arcs. This run I didn't enjoy because of the more dizzty characteration that she got. It just wasn't for me. I like her Rebirth design and what she did on the Teen Titans book with Damian. My opinion and take on her character.
I have to admit I laughed at the “the men or the boobs?” joke, too.
10:57 "Yes Separate Sad"
-one lonely dolphin
Thanks to our lovely host with the most, I'm going to the comic shop to buy some Starfire Back issues! Thank you for all your wonderful coverage!
I read the first arc of this. I thought it was fine although it didn't blow me away. I actually thought it did a good job of blending the innocent/fish out of water cartoon version with the Nu52 version adding in hints of the pre-Flashpoint version.
Agreed.
Thank you for putting my comment on there!!! It makes me feel so special since this video came out the day before my birthday and yes my birthday is on the 18th lol!! I really did love this series because it expanded so much on what the character has been all these years. I also wanted to say all the complaints you mentioned in this video are from "fans" who never actually read the comics and swear they know her character. I have read Starfire from Judas Contract and have watched the Teen Titans cartoon, Teen Titans Go, Red Hood and The Outlaws, the animated Judas Contract and the Teen Titans TV series and the character has always been foreign and sexualized. Even before the animated TV stuff she always portrayed those ways!!! The reason why Starfire was foreign to Earth culture is because she came from a planet that had a different culture that was with warriors, sex and sadly slavery. It very much resembled Greek culture. But since Earth hasn't been like that for years, she was very foreign on how much things were evolve and didn't understand and it's why she was very open with sex or sexual nature. Anyways, I really enjoyed the series for what it was. It was very enjoyable to see Starfire get know about Earth customs and I even loved her friendship with Atlee. It gave her a very defined character and plus it was nice to see Silkie introduced in the comics. I think Jimmy and Amanda lied that this series was always intended to be 12 issues because they obviously had many unresolved plot lines and they did try to solve them abruptly. That's why I always hate when writers say that and when they should be realistic about how they had no idea that series was gonna get cancelled so soon and wished they had more time. Anyways, I didn't have much a problem with the art change too much because it gave Atlee a definitive origin story on who she was and how she came to be. It's pretty obvious on how much I love Starfire. Great video, Sasha!
I feel dumb that it took me this long to find out Sasha has this other channel from Shippers' Guide, but damn am I happy to hear that “milage may vary” again
Any time a series changes art styles that drastically midway through, it becomes very jarring. I have not read this series, but I've often noticed how the feel of a comic can change based on the artist even if the writing doesn't change.
The art really is gorgeous and I like when a series has a clear beginning and end, even if plot points in the middle aren’t always wrapped up perfectly. The side characters seemed interesting too which isn’t always the case for solo series
Atlee: "I'm on vacation dammit!"
Omni-man: "I'm on vacation. Let Cecil earn his paycheck."
I loved this series. It was fun! The first eleven issues, that is. Then I managed to completely miss picking up issue twelve, and have never gotten round to tracking it down since. So now I finally know what happened in it! Thanks!
I did drop the new 52 Harley Quinn series somewhere around the late twenties in terms of issues, because it was fun but it was never going to go anywhere. So I think a twelve issue run is a pretty good idea..
I see that Berserk omnibus on your shelf. We need a Berserk deep dive now, id love to hear your opinion on it. Honestly it's probably one of the best Manga series ever made. Anyways I didn't know about this series and I love Starfire. She's always had a really cool history. More Titans and Starfire videos please! Btw Great video!
As a Starfire fan, I read this entire run, even after hearing that a lot of people weren't fans of it. I don't see the reason for the backlash, I thought it was cute and relatively harmless.
I think everyone was expecting her to be restored to her old self following the New 52’s characterization which is probably why a lot of people got angry and the New 52 Kory fans felt betrayed also since the book pretended RHATO never happened
@@kory7698, that's fair, as by the end of RHATO she was leaning strongly in the direction of returning to her previous characterization.
I didn't really read New52 stuff in order, so my experience with the topical run was already disconnected from her previous appearances post-flashpoint.
The first ever DC comic I bought was issue #1 of New 52 Harley Quinn. One thing that struck me about it was how a seemingly inordinate amount of time was spent dealing with the precise amounts of money Quinn had to collect in rent from various apartment tenants in order to pay for the upkeep of her building. (I was like: "This is exactly the sort of minutiae I used to put in amateur comics I wrote as a kid. I guess you don't have to be Shakespeare to write comics after all.")
Those cells at 6:20 and 6:40 reminded me of that Harley Quinn comic: again, the same curious interest in precisely how this superhero is going to earn money to pay mundane living expenses.
It finally made sense when you mentioned at the end of the video that the same writer/artist team did both of these comics.
Can we get an Atlee retrospective? I feel like pre-52 she's basically just Tern Titans Starfie to Power Girl's straight man, while here, her initial foreign nature feels underplayed and like maybe she should've been able to give Kori better advice. Then there's the Harley Quinn series where Atlee's... around. Anyway, great video, Atlee retrospective would be appreciated.
Very articulate and insightful ! Love your videos!
Sugar, you damn sure look like Cher today lol. Love it and your channel
Sounds Interesting. I watched Teen Titans and loved her as a character.
For this channel I expect some things planned or semi planned (like vids on characters if movies of them or shows are comming out, but if you decide to do say Howard the Duck or Condiment King I am fine with that too. As your opening always states this is where we talk casually about comics, or whenever our whims take us.
I laughed so hard when you said she has killed and she'll kill again
I'm so glad I found your channel. I liked the covering of the ruination of Zatanna's character and the Jimmy Olsen marrying Supergirl and now this. I LOVE Starfire and this series was meh to me. Just wish ppl would stop making the comic version more like the cartoon version.
Personally I always really liked this series when I read it I definitely agree with your points about it being a little rushed at the end. I definitely preferred this reason I have her over the one in red hood and the outlaws. I also really enjoyed her in the rebirth teen titans run.
*Lillie and Starfire hold hand* What can I say? I am beautiful.
0:32 It’s me!!!!
9:03 I NEED THIS SIDEBAR. I feel like you'd be an excellent person to talk about Starfire's black coding in an objective way, with significant and relevant input. I GOTTA SEE DAT VID PLEASE PLEASE
If you are trying to influence us subliminally, its working: would love to see a video on Berserk and/or The Super Sons.
I feel like thats who Starfire had been for thirty years in comics, now make her fresh off the boat and forget all of the awful things she witnessed as a Titan. The biggest complaint Ive seen was 'you had the chance to make her the way Ive seen her on TV!' A few years on after Rebirth and shes who she always was in comics again.
I feel like this could be a good intro into the DC Universe for new readers, depending on which part of the run they came in on. The vacation would be hard to spread into the rest of the universe but the Grayson "crossover" for lack of a better word could be intriguing for some readers. Granted I don't remember what that Grayson run was like and haven't read it myself but then that would lead to Batman and all the rest of the world.
Providing they hadn't already been reading that sort of thing.
Lupaccinos artwork shines in that issues she drew, shame they switched before the series ended. Overall I truly liked the series, but the change from superb artwork to something very different and in my opinion not so beautiful always bugs me.
honestly this star fire series looks tons of fun
It is REALLY DAMN good. I bought bought both Trade Paperback Volumes as a Souvenir from one of my Visits to New York. I Read all the Issues In One go.
Honestly I love this book especially after I saw how badly Starfire was handled in Red Hood and The Outlaws. Here though this book's version of Kori felt like a mix between her Pre New 52 and 2003 animated series incarnations.
I remember reading this and really enjoying it! I also did think this was her first time she was on earth based on how she was acting and the backstory! And I am also one of those coriander people who only taste soap
3:50 Both those artists warrant SO much more credit.
I really enjoyed this video and thank you for articulating everything I felt very eloquently. While I didn’t hate this series, I also didn’t love it. I love Starfire and felt that this downplayed her warrior princess upbringing and her leadership capabilities.
I love cheesecake. And when you're talking about Starfire, it's strawberry. My fave.
The hair is incredible and cool! You content on comics is informative and entertaining as always
It sounds like a fun little series and an interesting take on the character. I always have issues with the "I don't get idioms" comedy trope, but that is a minor point. Sounds like the authors were setting up some lore for others to take or leave, and that they themselves could farm for content later. But at this point it seems like any version of any character is going to make someone mad. Great reason just to make the best stories you can. You are also your own audience!
I was unaware of this series before this video. Honestly, I might give it a try: I'm a huge fan of Star Fire because there's so much you can do with her, so many different ways to interpret her character, and I've always been interested in the ways that people write her. I wasn't the biggest fan of the way she was portrayed in Red Hood and the Outlaws, but I also didn't hate it, either, so this could be an interesting take, too
I know this off topic but I just love how your wig Applications have gotten Laid to the gods and I see a hint of baby hairs I remember first watching when you were doing colour wigs for fun which I thought was so cool but this is my fist video in a while and I noticed how nice your wig was laid I like it (I too wear wigs so it much appreciated for the wig girls who love comics )
I did not read this series, but I was well aware of how controversial her time with Red Hood and the Outlaws was.
This sounds like just what Starfire needed at that time. A gentle transition from the highly questionable characterization of the RHatO book into a much more palatable little pocket of continuity-optional tales. And an enjoyable tale as well.
As long as readers are made aware in advance that the continuity will be loose to the point of arguably being unwelcome and that the character will walk a fine line between bimbo and naive on the path of learning, this sounds like a very enjoyable series - albeit one that might as well be an Elseworlds far as continuity goes.
But then again, the whole New 52 had dubious canonicity even with itself from day one.
Bought the solo series. Kept hoping it would get better. My biggest complaint was that I felt that for being on Earth for quite awhile, it felt like she just got there.
Outlaw title didn't upset me, but the series didn't draw me in.
I love all versions of Starfire and I think that’s unpopular lol
PANTS KORY have you tried PANTS!?! God I love the dynamics in this series. Such fixation on her legs. I mean god love her she WAS trying. It's strange you didnt bring up Superman first suggesting keywest and being the one at the end telling her about the superheroe community having a place for her. Ending where it began as it were.
She's like a barbarian woman.
@Will N That might have been my bad. I should have put that in quotations. That's a quote from the sherrif to Kory upon shopping with her and the only thing Korriand'r is picking out are more swimsuits or lingerie (there was also some talk of her wearing something that wasn't dental floss). The Handsome man that runs one of the clothing stores they visit gives her a skirt that ties off to the side, the conversation went something like: Sherrif: I thought I told you pants! Shopkeep: Honey have you seen those legs? it would be a CRIME to cover those up!
I didn’t get into superheroes until 2012 - 2013, but even then my first exposure to superheroes was definitely Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man trilogy and THE TEEN TITANS CARTOON (back when CN was good). This characterization of her character had always stuck with me.
Fast forward to 2013, and when I was reading and collecting comics… I WAS FURIOUS WITH RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS! Especially when comparing it to the 1980’s comics by Marv Wolfman and George Perez! Her own series in New 52 didn’t piss me off; it was a neat blend of Kori’s sex appeal and her figuring out who she is outside of being a Titan or an Outlaw. It was a more slice of life comic I enjoyed.
FYI, I was once on a cruise Amanda and Jimmy were on and we were at Key West, so I asked them about it. The just really like Key West and considered getting a place there once, so that's why they picked it for Kori.
This Starfire series reminds me of Smallville but more light hearted and a little drama and a lot less dumber than the super girl tv series
My request for a retrospective is a look at Marvel's "Loser-villains": Batroc, (Ultimate) Shocker, Trapster.
Me loving this series is mainly because I loved Amanda and Jimmy’s Power Girl from the late 2000s. The tone is very similar, and without that much comic book Starfire knowledge I really loved it. Also, it brought back their Terra (Atlee) who I really missed as my favourite Terra. She had only really showed up in that Power Girl run.
Wow I did not know this little series existed lol 😆
My first intoeduction to Starfire was with the 2003-06 series, so I became a really big Teen Titans fan from that.
I remember being quite disheartened by the New52 reboot and Starfire going off with the red hood series, as to me the team that I had grown to love no longer existed ahaha. Also I really didn't like what happened with Raven. Like she was my favorite character, and her redesign in the New52 was jarring to me and oh I guess she's with trigon now???
That was my thought process and so I kinda dropped everything bc of New52 and just went into despair lol. At the very least I could re-run Teen Titans 03-06 haha.
But yeah, so this is interesting. I like seeing your videos bc it lets me learn things I didn't know before or helps me find out what happened to plot treads that moved on after I left. So thanks so much for these :)
It did? I loved it! It's actually one of the series that got me to start reading DC regularly. I was like "hey, it doesn't always have to be gore and tie-ins to a bajillion events going on. Comics can be cute and charming."
3:10 I thought you said ships for a sec and it made me miss your Guide channel.
I honestly would love to see more art like the second version. It’s gorgeous!!
That Emo Fluid thing is jarring if you haven't heard of it before. I learned about it in Powergirl (2009) #12. Don't know where it started, but seeing it in Powergirl felt like "Look, this is the last issue we have this artist, so we're giving her portfolio material."
It’s kind of odd how Starfire isn’t treated exceptionally well by writers and creators. People noticed that with the first Titans design and the comic about her goth daughter that no one liked.
Uhhhhh that goth daughter comic isn't even out yet
Yeah she is a cartoon favorite trying to find her place in the greater universe
I remember seeing something that said that that writer was fired from dc
How can someone say they don’t even like the comic about her goth daughter when that comic hasn’t even come out. They just look at the image for the cover and declare that it won’t be good because her daughter is goth and not skinny which has some pretty bad implications. They judge something without even giving it a chance.
Well the "goth daughter" is quite blatantly a writer self-insert. Nightstar from Kingdom Come will always be Nightwing & Starfire's real daughter.
I enjoyed this series, and really liked the Kori/Atlee buddy buddy teamup in the series.
I had mixed feelings on this series. I did like the art and some of the humor, but honestly I do think it's harder for characterizations from TV shows to make sense back in comics, and this is especially true for Starfire and Raven. The creators did do a good job of bringing her lovingness and kindness to the forefront, because those were definitely big parts of her character from the 80s run, but the other parts like the focus on her being the cutesy, naive girl-next-door type of character (despite her free love mentality) just seems to me like she's a caricature rather than a 3D character. It's hard to reconcile her "what does that expression mean?" with her "I'm absolutely willing to kill if necessary, sorry if that bothers you Dick", which was a key part of her characterization in the 80s. Continuity wise it also doesn't make sense for this to be the same Starfire who pretended to not remember her Titans friends during the Outlaws run, and who showed the same willingness to kill that Jason and Roy did. The series just feels pretty out of tone with the rest of canon to me. It's not unlikeable, it's just harder to swallow for me.
I realize that this comic isn't for everyone, but it was for me. Even though I love the medium, a lot of comics aren't my thing, so it's cool when there's something that I can vibe with!
They definitely need more variety. This series tried to bring back soap opera, humor, and the real world. I also like the New 52 Harley Quinn series.
@@chihiromononoke9381 Read Alternative and Underground Comics. You find dizzying variety when you move away from the Big Two.
Love and Rockets is a good start.
A punk comic from 1980, by 3 brothers, Los Bros Hernandez, with many great and interesting characters. My favourites are the couple Maggie and Hopey, two fun punk girls.
Same here.
Connor's run was hella cool. Introduced me to Elsa Charretier too.
She's one of my favorite artists, I love her style
@@hurlaky43 I gotta check out more of her stuff. I heard of November but I'm not the biggest Fraction fan.
Starfire has always Been a baddie.
I have been eagerly awaiting this!
*Teen Titian Go sprinkles a bit of salt on everything*
Hurt in open wound but also great in Salty n Sweet treat maybe like cheesecake in the master chief hands. XD
Beside my actual thought... This looks kinda cute and amazing story appreciate the ton of cheesecake. Seeing these incarnation sorta mix one interesting.
The beginning from what heard sad seen feel interconnected while the ending is for ending all the plots.
This fun story is fun adventure and silkie is a cutie!!! Just look at little things...
I feel like they factory restored Starfire's personality in this story. She's more like she was when I was growing up, but, she doesn't have the same experience she did by the time I was first introduced to her comic counterpart. Also, Sasha, you're most definitely my wcw.
I loved this series, probably because I love anything by Conner & Palmiotti, especially where her art is involved. I'd read more superhero comics if more superhero comics were as fun, lighthearted and unbound by stifling continuity maintenance (the absolute worst f_____g thing about contemporary Marvel/DC storytelling). I especially like their dedication to breaking female characters free of their dedicated ships and roles -- and their completely unapologetic embrace of playful "cheesecake" sex appeal that never seems degrading or exploitative. Short of Grant Morrison getting to write a couple hundred more issues of Flex Mentallo, their work is basically my superhero comics ideal.
Please do an in-depth video about Starfire's black coding!!! I've got a lot of weird feelings about it as someone who was first introduced to the character as she was in the 80s and seeing how she's been sexualized over the years...
I passed on reading this series due to how little I enjoyed her in the Redhood comic (she felt cold to me)… this looks like fun though. It looks like it has a strong Harley Quinn comic vibe and, I can already tell that a crossover would have been bananas.
Totally forgot about this series. I remember liking it at the time, but the ending did feel rushed to me, regardless of what the creators said about completing a planned 12 issues. I actually liked the toning down of the sexpot New 52 version, and the attempt to merge aspects of New Titans and Go. The Silkie thing bothered me both for the ick factor of mind alteration as well as the New Powers as the Plot Demands trope. I don't remember any prior version of Silkie doing this, and it seemed like a convenient way of forcing the story. Also, wasn't there a giant gross version of Silkie in the comics during the Johns run? Like they did with the horrific version of Wonder Dog?
I have no idea why but this is my favorite casually comics video 😂 I’ve watched 6 times since it’s release.