Themyscira is a woman-only "paradise" where women resolve differences through bondage and discipline. Just as William Marston intended. They have a very strict border policy. But Tom King would never let the character's history stand in the way of his mindless political pontificating.
So the original WW movie from a few years ago was hard to make??? Looks to be pretty successful to me which is why they made a sequel. The quality is the question regardless of any film.
I think King saying that Batman fights for the law is reductive, and is likely why it turns people away from his take on Batman. Batman fights to save lives. Sometimes the Venn diagram of the law and that goal overlap and sometimes it doesn't
Yeah. We always say that "Batman is waging a war against crime and criminals," but that's not really the case. If the government outlawed eating fish, Batman wouldn't start beating up people who eat fish. If the government legalized murder, Batman wouldn't stop beating up murderers. He says he's against "crime," but he's using that term more to mean "victimization."
Eh, I gave that bit of narration a pass since it's implied that the narrator of the issue is the big bad, so it's understandable that his perception would be a bit skewed. Like the people who say that Tarantino doesn't get Superman because of that one monologue from Kill Bill 2, except that monologue is from the perspective of a sociopathic mass murderer who clearly thinks that people like him are above humanity (and is also proven wrong).
George Perez will never get enough recognition. Not only he revived the popularity of Wonder Woman with his reboot and established a new complex lore that would surround our gorgeous Amazon to this day, but also created, along with Marv Wolfman, the most iconic and transcendental incarnation of the Teen Titans and the first major Crisis that changed DC forever. R.I.P. Master
He seemed like a mega-defender of the character, both writing & drawing her and openly criticizing her company for not highlighting her 50th anniversary.
I read a novel once which had as one of its core premises that Wonder Woman (she was called "Princess Powerful" in the book) was a character so trivial, so devoid of actual characteristics, that it made no difference who wrote her or what personality she displayed. This was seemingly in explicit response to Perez's relaunch of Wonder Woman. I thought it was a strikingly myopic claim, and one of the worst possible examples to use.
He really got Diana as a personality. I have never been happy about his erasure of the Themyscirans' scientific progress across their thousands of years of peace (they were isolated, but they had magical scrying to even that out). There are a ton of ideas left to be explored about what the society of Paradise Island valued enough to study and build upon scientifically versus what they preferred to keep of their ancient ways of living. Having them as spear-wielding warrior-women who haven't changed throughout history was a really bad move, and one that wrecked Wonder Woman's approach to everything. So many writers after Perez got hung up on the "oh, she's a warrior now!" idea. Perez threaded the needle and kept the thing about Diana that makes her really different from the other heroes: Wonder Woman sees the world as wonderful, and seeks to engage with its wonders and show them to all the people she meets. She's a philosophical optimist, and somehow few writers beyond Perez seem to have grasped that.
Art is beautiful in this book. But it’s a “message first” story to me. The characters are just props to deliver whatever the writer wants to lecture the reader about. Also, this felt like Steel’s book. Not Diana’s. He was the focus and it was HIS struggle. Diana felt like a supporting character in her own book. I feel this deep dive into who Strel is could have come later after the story and Diana’s place within the story were more established
Thank you so much for adressing the usa-centrism when it comes to Wonder Woman. I understand why it was originally there given the era and place she was created but I genuinely don't know why so many authors still tie her so much to it. Batman and Superman operating primarily within the usa makes sense given that they are american citizens and also each have their "own" defining cities. But Diana has no Gotham or Metropolis (which is also imo why her rouges gallery feels lacking. Batman villains are iconic because they are so tied to the setting) nor does she have any reason to be in the usa full time. If dc writers can write whole stories set in space, they should be able to write about Diana operating internationally.
That could easily be the foundation of the character. It's still an American story and IP, but WW could represent absurdities like USA taxing citizens across the globe as a form of bondage (pun intended, and PUN INTENDED, not sex-play) of their citizens, who also function as a good excuse to invade countries that allegedly have US civilian hostages. US special agents getting disappeared by CIA need not apply. Wonder woman could be the spirit of this kind of universalist Americanism, the claim on "Western" culture despite abandoning most of the Greco-Roman infuence except on surface level, and having more in common with post-Abrahamic culture, like Mormonism reflects on christianity the same way fundamentalist reform reflects on 2 Billion muslims in the world. I would genuinely transform her into clay in an event comic, as a commentary on US racialism over skin color. These writers CANNOT handle topics like US expansionism that appropriation of Byzantine myth INHERENTLY implies, and compels to take a clear side on the side of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But, her criticism of things like circumcision, is blocked for other reasons than lack of maturity, in "western comics" industry. It's mature and quite deliberate. Ridiculous subractions like "Batman is about the law" is the level of maturity we're dealing with, reminds me of the recent blind honking of applause done by the geese in Canada.
You wouldn't even have to go into space. An artificial island anchored in international waters, underwater or a city in the Arctic/Antarctic would do. When it comes to the oceans I'm sure Wonder Woman could come to an agreement with Aquaman. Register it with the UN and the Amazons could have their own country.
@@ravenwilder4099 I think that if someone is to be a professional writer for a big company then they ought to be able to do some research on how the everyday life in other countries is? And it's honestly not something that you really need to give a huge focus on: have a story where WW has to spend some time fighting a villain in one country, focus on the action, and then have her fight someone else somewhere else. And if they want her base of operations to be in the usa then at least give her a distinct setting like most other heroes.
@@nikoletta3855 People have tried to give Diana a distinct setting, it's just that once a new creative team takes over, they have a tendency to ignore everything the previous creative team did, so none of those distinct settings lasts for very long.
It bugs me when people say WW doesn't have a rogues gallery. It's only because she hasn't had as much exposure outside of the comics. All the big JLers have had TV shows and cartoons. She hasn't. But I do think her archenemy is and always will be Cheetah. Part of the appeal of Wonder Woman is seeing her relationships with other women, many of whom are antagonists. You don't see that anywhere else in a major, ongoing superhero comic book.
I know cheetah doesn't want to be saved but everytime I see her that's all I want. Veronica Cale can be the big villain for a while. Give me Barbara for like three issues.
Ah, that's nothing new. There are plenty of people who have said, "Give me a sign" and the sign came to them in some form or another. If what he said is true, that's probably all it was to him.
Thank you! And I think he could’ve even spun in away where he could have said something like “I was inspired by George’s words and I wanted to see if we could reach the watermark set by him!” Making it more about the work of those who came before and the words of them rather be than me me me! He was challenging ME calling ME a coward laughing at ME, you’re literally projecting your feelings on the words of a dying man who was talking about his own life accomplishments!!!!!! Edit: Spelling
@@akkakkakekkn Tom King CAN be a great writer* it mainly comes down to if he has to deal with an established canon or characterization of a character then he kinda falls apart a little bit, I feel like Tom King would be a great AUTHOR, not so much a COMIC BOOK WRITER, because when it comes to standalone character pieces and standalone stories I feel like he can do that well. But comic books are almost never standalone, and the things he struggles with the most are found most often in this particular medium of comics… Except maybe TV? Now that most shows are episodic in nature to some degree… But outside of those I think it has proven to have some writing chops but not all writing is equal and not all writers are good at all writing equally… that’s a rare talent to have! 😊 Edit: grammar
I've noticed that Amanda Waller is a perfect foil for DC's big three. The Suicide Squad, Cadmus and Amanda's hardline nature is a very good contrast against Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman.
Wonder Woman ain’t complicated. I might actually start a channel and make a video about this because it matters to me that much. George Perez understood it better than most. She’s an ambassador of peace. She’ll fight if needed, but she would rather connect with people. We need to ditch the Roman gladiator armor look which implies she came looking for a fight and go back to the suit that was given to her to wear as an olive branch to man’s world.
I would hardly call a swimsuit based on a single country's flag to be an "olive branch to the world". Especially when said flag isn't even the one of her country.
@@cui8789 The original reason she wore it was because it represented the free world. An olive branch to that she’s here as an ally. Plus, America is not the only country with red white and blue on it. It’s just the most prominent one on the global stage.
@@ivansobubblehead it wasn’t Roman battle armor. It is armor, but the Roman gladiator look is different in message than what she wore before which looked more like a costume designed to convey ideals. Much like how even though captain America also wears armor, it’s primary goal is to express what he stands for
I've read most of Wonder Woman - and by that I mean everything from 1941 to present day. And I have read contemporaneous issues since 1978. So, I am well acquainted with all the reboots and reimagining and direction changes over the years. For me, this actually feels clumsy, like the change of Wonder Woman to her kung fu era in an attempt to make her more contemporary and more feminist. Wonder Woman is a very strong character, and she always reverts to her basic core character despite efforts to make her a God or a fast food clerk or what have you. Having Wondy versus the US government is ok, but it does feel a lot like a couple of guys going "What if she really kicked ass? Like totally kicked ass?"
I always love how you make space for your viewers to form their own opinions, and the care with which you explore all sides of an issue fairly. I wish comic book writers could do the same. I would be interested in you dipping back into King's run after a year or so and telling us how you feel at that point.
I agree that Sasha is wonderful in how she approaches these potentially divisive subjects, but I wouldn't want writers generally trying to explore all sides fairly. Yes, empathy is an important tool for writers and seeing multiple characters' perspectives, but not trying to see all sides of a creative issue like "What makes a good Wonder Woman story?". Ultimately, good writing comes from a writer following their own muse and their own inspiration, and no great story is accepted by everyone.
indecisiveness in a story can easily stem from trying to explore all sides fairly. Most great stories come from an author exploring their own side of the story instead of trying to please everyone.
@@ProjektTakuobviously. Well said. If you get upset that a piece of art isn’t covering “your side” then you really need to stop being so fragile and narcissistic.
Every time one of these modern writers use the word "relatable" I already get worried. "Relatable to whom", because I usually find it hard to relate to these new takes on characters, even when I could in the past. Also, DC heroes are supposed to be, at least to me, aspirational, something we strive to be. They represent the best of humanity to the point that their civilian identities are also about helping others, even the rich dudes like Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen. I don't want to relate to DC heroes, I want to be like them despite not being a crimefighter, having superpowers, or wearing a colorful outfit. They aren't supposed to be like us; that's Marvel's deal. We are supposed to be more like them.
He's doing it for his kid, yet then he's writing something clearly in his wheelhouse because he once worked for the government. So instead of writing something for his little girl and younger readers. He's writting JUST for himself and making excuses.
For me, the Lasso of Truth is a double-edged sword. Truth can be freeing, and also extremely painful. The idea of having a "Lasso of Lies" is just, IMO, silly, as it doesn't really MEAN anything. Just as the real reason, IMO, that Diana doesn't have an "archenemy" the way Superman and Batman do, is twofold. One, back in the early days, exemplified by Paul Von Gunther, and Transformation Island, she truly believed in reforming her foes. And two, she has been hard to define by her creative teams, and even her fans, making someone who would be the antithesis of who she is hard to create, since that has yet to be fully fleshed out.
I think writers like Greg Rucka, George Perez, Gail Simone, and Phil Jimenez have really written her well as a compassionate ambassador of peace who is also a fierce warrior when her hand is forced. This juxtaposition is why I love their runs and how well-balanced her warrior and pacifist sides can be. This can be ruined quickly when fans and writers take out-of-context rare moments where Diana’s morality was pushed to the limits and pretend Diana is a vicious gladiator that seldom negotiates peace. WW #1 by Tom King had an interesting start that embraced her lore that I’m ready to see more of. PS, Casually Comics, I’d love for you to do a solo video on KSD’s Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons! ❤️
@@garycannon4644try reading what they said again. WW isn’t the warrior with sword and shield. She’s peaceful. It’s okay to change things, but when I read anything WW as a kid, she never had a sword and shield. She was peace and love.
@@Akkbar21 Wonder Woman hates killing in the past,since Max Lord incident back in the 2000's she was portrayed more and more like a bloodthirst and vicious warrior until Rebirth undone this. This book is awfful. King just cannot write a true super-hero book without your Cynical Dark and Edge desconstruction of DC classic characters.
@@EvandroACruz Diana was only portrayed as bloodthirsty in a few elseworlds and the New 52 Justice League. In her own book, she was reasonable and level headed. And I'm not seeing any deconstruction in this book.
I watched Thinking Critical's rant. I then watched Blerd's video, where he basically gave the finger to half of the audience. I would like to say, I truly appreciate your middle ground approach to covering this comic. You do great work.
that guy is really odd. he seems like he's just dying to go full comicsgate at any moment. and thats from just watching a few minutes after reading this comment. TC is creepy aggrieved comic dude adjacent at best.
@@shawnboahene5231 But that's also the role of a critic. Sasha spends time in her essays like this clearly holding an opinion, yet trying to shape to meet both advocates and detractors of the work. I'll contrast with Roger Ebert -- one of the reasons I liked his reviews is that he tried to meet the material where it was coming from, and also tried to not apply too many of his internal biases, but usually landed firmly on an approach. And he wrote books about where, over the course of years, he'd re-assessed movies and come to a different conclusion. Or how he listened and changed on if video games could be art, somewhat. Him grappling with his opinions on a work openly and honestly help me better understand what I want from a work, than trying to do an A/B approach.
Verisimilitude is a very helpful word for comic discussion. Helps criticize the world cohesion without necessarily throwing away the fantastical elements in it.
That is an excellent point. It was exactly this that immediately took me out of this. The laughably bad setup that went from 0-100. I am a huge espionage story fan and this is as clever and subtle as an anvil. The narrative to describe Wonder Woman was a 10 on the Tom King pretensiousness scale. If you don't buy into his ludicrious plot and world building then it is far too easy to pull the threads and unravel everything. Typical Tom King. Another good artist wasted on a bad story.
So to start things off positively, I think the art is absolutely gorgeous. It looks amazing and has some great action to it and the mystery of who the Blonde Amazon is and why she's going on this killing spree. Now onto the gripes. While I do enjoy King's work, the first issue is as subtle as Artemis trying to smuggle Mistress into an airplane. It feels like I've read this type of story before from various other writers in the Big Two and the indies scene. On top of it, it seems like things escalated way too fast, and would have been better if Diana was in a race against time to find the Mystery Amazon, or else the US government would make its move due to growing tensions. It might just also be the fact that I've heard a lot of what King is trying to say on a daily basis and would rather have the series be Diana go on this grad Odyssey of an adventure interacting with creatures, gods, and heroes from mythology. I'll give it my usual 3 issue try but at the moment the 1st Issue didn't grab me.
That would have been so much better, getting 'this' story like 6 issues in. My biggest point of confusion was just how many amazonians are just living in the US. They said the taskforce killed or deported over 300, but earlier it was stated the vast majority of amazonians had already left. Now paradise island never looks massive to me so it sure feels like thousands and thousands of amazonians just living on US soil should be its own story in the first palce.
@@MisterKetch that actually raises a good point cause that’s only looking at the US rather than the world as a whole. As 2nd gen American myself it also adds some questions to why there are so many Amazons in the US. If it was in the thousands then it might mean something is up at home which is causing them to immigrate. It would be a very interesting story to see why they’re leaving paradise island to set roots in a different area.
As a South American King's run already lost me. The man has always had stories that draw on his experience from his CIA days, and those can be really good (character's acting "out of character" aside), but his decision to give Wonder Woman, a hero who has fought gods all around the world, a a US-centric story is, I believe, totally missing the mark about what makes the character work. To me, it'd feel like making a Fantastic Four comic in which the family stays in New York the entire time. I hope this is just his first arc and he opens his horizons as he goes along. That said, the fight scene narration was horrible, and, like you said, I hope this is either addressed directly, or it'll just show how little King understands of the character. Never want anything to fail, least of all a character that needs an iconic run, but I don't really have my hopes up.
No you are actual clown. Wonder woman whole thing is US centric. She functioned as world war 2 propaganda nazies. She should be fighting the government
I will say I like the art in this, and particularly Wonder Woman's design. She looks less cheesecake and more like this was a choice of some kind. Something vaguely practical, even though it really isn't. It's interesting.
I like the fact that superman is now the lone trinity member with an impractical design due to batman and WW's armor looks. Although I do kinda miss her classic design.
@@mehlessmidori602 fair, I guess it would make sense Superman needs armor so that it can withstand whatever hits him, I just don't like injustices bulky approach. If you toned it down it'd be a pretty fantastic superman redesign, much better than the new 52's.
The good things about this comic (aside from the artwork) are Sarge Steel doing something, Diana not surrendering to the military and doing her throwing the tiara thing from pre-Crisis as well as talking to Steve Trevor and resuming her identity as Diana Prince, and the appearance of the Sovereign.
Thank you for your insights, Sasha. I don't care for the story you described so I won't be too worried about collecting it. Maybe down the road, sometime, maybe not. Sampere's art is quite eye-catching, though I think he makes certain characters' heads too small, including WW's. (I voiced this opinion on X/Twitter last week, and was pleased to learn that I wasn't the only one to feel this way.) To me, Wonder Woman is a fantasy (NOT mythology, or rather, not JUST mythology) character, and that's how creators need to treat her: unleashed, wild imagination. Purple healing rays, invisible jets, giant kangas, telepathic radios, and the like. Yes, her "cause," her "agenda," is about "real" things like peace, equality (or equity), and human rights, and those are the things she fights for, but I feel a lack of imagination has been plaguing her and her section of the DCU for quite a while now. For years, the DC/Marston Amazons were a peaceful, positive society where they would engage in battle only if necessary. Those Amazons would never "Attack." They had evolved over the centuries they had lived on their island. These warrior women could still "take care of business," but always preferred peace. They became so advanced that the firearms of Man's World were merely playthings to be used in their game of Bullets and Bracelets. Those are the Amazons I want to read about. That's the Wonder Woman I want to see.
I'm so glad someone understands how the Amazons are supposed to be. I feel like writers have relied too much on the warrior aspect of the Amazons forgetting that Themyscira was the Isle of Paradise, a place of peace for women who had been harmed. It would be so nice to see writers rely on the more community aspect of them rather than the battle ready aspects
I appreciate seeing Diana use the tiara boomerang prominently. And I get trying to make a relic that's a dark counterpart to the lasso, but the execution just makes it come off as meh to me. Like something that won't get a lot of play once King leaves.
Diana has basically suffered from Reboot syndrome, While Clark and Bruce tend to keep stuff, Diana tends to almost start fresh from every reboot/rebrand. The recurring joke that every new Wonder Woman Writer wants to be the definitive Wonder Woman Writer or they only took the book to kill time or if you're John Byrne, used Diana as an excuse to write about the New Gods aka the book he wanted to do.
8:08 The Cloonrad run of Wonder Woman was initially interesting because of Diana meeting Norse gods until she decided to return to Earth to live her life, deal with forgotten Golden and Silver Age adventures (i.e. Milk Company for Golden Age and Image Maker for Silver Age), Trial of the Amazons and Revenge of the Gods being a thing, and ending with Diana in a sleep coma in the 800th issue and her waking up to continue to be active as a superhero. Also, her meeting Yara Flor twice and barely interacting with her family.
@@matthewlloyd5130 That's some valuable context. My thinking was silver tongue being associated with lying, but of course there's a silver lasso, haha Thanks for the info all the same.
9:50 Leaving aside what people think about Kanigher's stories about Wonder Woman, he had a fundamental role in DC's story, as he was the man behind the creation of very iconic and awesome characters like Black Canary, Sgt. Rock, Poison Ivy and Ragman. He truly deserves to be remembered in a positive light
Kanigher was a fantastic writer when he cared about the character and wanted to do great things with them. He wrote some of the best war stories DC ever did and he was a great writer, but.. He was a terrible Wonder Woman writer and clearly phoned it in. He was just copying what was done in Superman at the time and it shows. It's so badly written, rushed, and none of Kanigher's fantastic abilities or details. He's may have been one of the longest and one of the first WW writers to just.. phone it in, but he certainly wasn't the last and he certainly wasn't one that openly hated Wonder Woman as several more recent writers have.. and his stamp on Wonder Woman is still felt in 2023..
All I'll say on the matter is that to me, Diana operates in a similar space to Percy Jackson, but probably an inverse - someone who lives in the world of gods and monsters, where the myths and legends is very much a reality to her rather than a historical curiosity, but the 21st century is the weird world, and trying to balance that. Also, balancing the roles as a princess and ambassador, and someone who's fundamentally from and representative of a bronze Age warrior culture.
I would love a video discussing why and when the Amazons decided to send some of their other peeps to America. I haven't read Wonder Woman since the 80s, so I'm a little confused by the premise.
It took a lot of work to fix Wally West after Tom King. I will be sitting this one out until they pull the plug and lure a Rucka level Titan in to rehabilitate Diana after King leaves her in tatters.
I think this is the first era in comics where I'm disinclined to buy from specifc comics authors, not because of how they write or even their politics, but because of how they've acted in the real world.
Thanks for this. I’m a huge Wonder Woman fan but I didn’t particularly enjoy this issue very much. I guess I’m just an old school simpleton. My favorite was a 23 issue run of WONDER WOMAN: AGENT OF PEACE. They were short, simple and action packed. Probably marketed to a younger audience but I enjoyed them anyway.
My first impressions so far is that I'm not yet sold on this direction for Diana. I get focusing on her being inspiring figure and something a lot of young woman aspire to, but the lack of subtlety in the storytelling is offputting. It worries me because i feel like Diana's character needs some of that subtlety especially if they're going for a peace seeking paragon route. Maybe its the choice of narrator that Im not sure works. But the art is phenomenal, main reason i am reading it.
I think my problem with Wonder Woman is simply that she lacks cohesion throughout her history. With Superman and Batman you had creators building onto what's come before and because of that one can draw a relatively straight line from their intial appearences until today and still be able to recognize those characters. Wonder Woman however has been massively retooled over the decades making it much more difficutl to pin her down. And Tom King isn't helping here at all. An espionage thriller seems to be one of the most incompatible stories one could do with her, since those usually don't gove much room, if any, for her character core of wanting to foster understanding between people. The character gets yanked all over the place to the point where DC might aswell declare every other run if not every other issue to be an elseworlds. What Wonder Woman would need is an EXTREMLY basic run where she just has adventures involding her traditional villains and greek mythology. Literally what Perez did and it worked fairly well to the point that basicly all adaptations draw from it. I'm also still at a loss about the renumbering. Like... why?! Nothing about this story appears to require any reboot or reset of any kind in order to work. Same with The Flash. Why? The whole Dawn of DC thing is absurd to me because they just slap a new name on the same old problem riddled thing. As far as I'm concerned this is all still the New52.
@@Superaqualad5459 Geoff Johns is probably the worst person for taking care of continuity because he just considers everything to be in canon including the bad stuff that was thrown out of continuity for a reason. He was the driving force behind bringing back the multiverse even tho it was destroyes to make the comics less confusing. He's not a man of good decisions that's for sure.
I totally agree, instead of building new and engaging stories with Wonder Woman's rich history and connection with greek mythology, they keep trying to reinvent the wheel and make "the" definitive interpretation, even though classics seldom are written to be classics.
As always great video with very nuance takes. I wish the comic itself could have been similar, but oh well. I personally plan on giving King's run two more issues to hopefully find it's footing. But as it's stands now nothing particularly interesting beyond the surface level thing's like the art being pretty
King looks at Wonder Woman as someone who berates them for Diana never sees herself as perfect, but knows that strife cannot be stopped with words alone. It's sad to me that the Masters who have captured the essence of Wonder Woman stories and made them so great are not working on them now.😢
Based on his past works, I'd have been impressed if he'd simply managed to write Sgt. Steel in character. I do not recognize this government agent, and I've read stories featuring him before. Of course, this is the man who engineered a whole story around turning Adam Strange into a war criminal. I'm seriously worried about where this book is going, and we're only a single issue into the run.
@@SingularityOrbit Kings Adam Strange Book was Black Label for a good reason: it's meant to be an examination of the difference between how a war hero is created by propaganda and what it actually takes to win a war. It also highlights how our fiction often reflects false beliefs of society. Adam Strange is a direct descendant of the White Colonial Savior and American Exceptionalism. Hence intertwining the quotes of Adam Strange into the story. Since King was in war as a CIA agent, he does have insight into this sort of thing. Obviously exploring that version cannot be made canon to an IP.
From my community post: “I don’t necessarily think Wonder Woman is hard to write. There have been some really successful iterations, George Perez, Greg Rucka (twice), Gail Simone and William Messner-Leobs for example. I don’t think King went into this with the right frame of mind plus his track record for deconstructing DC characters unnecessarily. His take even perhaps without the intention is misogynist & criminalising the Amazon’s is such a tired trope. What I think is, like many male writers who take on Diana they don’t know what to do with the WW mythos & especially are challenged writing large groups of female characters so it’s easier to take the Amazons out & reduce Diana to a singular character (Brian Azzerello & Denny O’Neil are examples of this trope). I was angry for much of issue #1 but will admit to being intrigued by the “secret” King at the end. That said I’m a little more Zen than I was reading Azzerello’s revisionist take on Diana than King as I’ve learned with comics “this to shall pass”. 🧘🏼♂️”
I found the premise and dialogue particularly appalling. I have stuck with WW since childhood, through the best and worst of the character, but this was a bridge too far. It's as if the writing took Dr. Psycho's misogyny and dialed it up to 11. I'll be waiting for this to pass, because I've got no interest in suffering through it.
What's the realistic place to draw inspiration from to write a large group of heroic women? The counterpart of male draft, prostitutes like Iron town in Princess Mononoke? College students taking more and more space in the cafeteria, telling each other "you CAN sit with us"?
@@ravenwilder4099 The lie part, maybe, but the White Magician claims he was involved with the birth of America, so the "secretly involved with American politics through magical means" reminds me of him.
I must say. I am a more new WW fan, I’ve recently gotten really into her and reading the Perez and Messner-Loebs stuff and I actually picked up WW #1 yesterday. So take my stance with a grain of salt as I may not have the best full knowledge of the character yet but I personally loved the issue. Also as a Tom King super fan, I loved the tone, the art was amazing, it Kept me interested and invested throughout, it was a good single issue I can reread many times. Again, as a newer WW fan my opinion my not be the strongest but I really liked the depiction of Diana, despite understanding that she feels Detached from the story itself, but I really vibe with it, she feels strong and has a impressive Aura, I loved the set up and her big reveal moment. I struggle to articulate myself well (ESPECIALLY on a TH-cam comment) so forgive me if what I say doesn’t make much sense, my brain is very slow and Swiss cheese at times. But essentially I really liked it and I will definitely check out more of the run
I think your opinions are valid given your low level of exposure with WW. Sometimes a first encounter with something may seem fantastic, until you gain more experience to look back and really analyse it, at which point you may stick with your original opinion or discard it. As said in the video, there are several points that a reader will either accept what the comic is presenting to them or check out entirely. If you managed to pass all those checks and consider it a good experience then that's fine. There have been times I have disliked something popular or liked something that is hated as well. The only thing that can ever change your opinion is time, experiencing other comparable media and reflection, but you're not necessarily obligated to do that when it comes to a casual hobby, no matter what some enthusiasts may say. Still, I would recommend checking out other WW comics and comparing them to King's as a fun exercise if you really want to.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I do! I never want to live in a echo chamber and I want to read the Azzerello and Rucka stuff too. I also heart Historia was good and continue the runs I’m currently reading. So don’t worry. I won’t just go, “I like this, so I’ll never read that”
This video got me thinking that Amanda Waller could really be a fantastic villain for Wonder Woman if handled right. Where Diana is an honorable warrior, Waller uses dirty tactics. There could be a fun exploration of how these two characters have opposing ideologies on how to help mankind, would be pretty interesting. Also Waller could form a task force like the Suicide Squad that she needs to fight (one that could pose a threat to her)
Here's a problem I have with so many writers I hear speaking and a phrase they use. They want to write a "character defining run". They want the glory before the story is even told. The great stories of characters are great often because of how time was good to them. A writer had a good story to tell and told it. Whenever I hear a writer is going to tell a character defining story, it's likely they are going to make some kind of 180 on the character to make it stand out, then the either reset to status quo in the end, or let the next writer retcon the crap they pulled. Just tell a good story! If people like it, if it's well told, then perhaps it will go down as character defining. Also, Tom King is an idiot. I avoid anything he writes now because aside from his okay run on Vision, what he writes turn to crap pretty fast. Which is sad because I'd like to get back into reading Wonder Woman but not while he's writing it.
I mean, I thought Mr. Miracle and Woman of Tomorrow were pretty good. But like, that’s just my opinion - I don’t have any beef with you for not liking King’s work. I respect your opinion.
I'm not completely disagreeing with you but there are plenty of great superhero comics written with the intention of making it definitive for the character. Plenty of failures too, but for instance whenever John Byrne started a book with a classic character his intention was always to make a lasting impact on that character. All-Star Superman, Dark Knight Returns, Ultimate Spider-man, they all knew what the potential impact was right from the beginning. Wonder Woman at the moment doesn't have anything close to an iconic story in the same way as DKR or even an Alan Moore Superman issue (not talking overall quality, just broad recognizability) so maybe it's fine that people are putting in the effort for WW. Not saying that Tom King can actually pull it off but I think it's fine if that's his intention.
Yeah, everyone wants to "leave their mark" on a character instead of just writing a good story. They're all trying to write the next _Sandman_ or _Batman: Year One_ or _Watchmen._ But when celebrated writers like Miller, Moore, Gaiman, Perez, Morrison, etc. wrote their comics, they weren't thinking "I'm going to write the next blah blah blah." They were thinking "I'm going to write something compelling."
@@spandytube A couple of thoughts on these examples. All-Star Superman and TDKR were both written as "last stories" -- the ends of those characters' stories -- explicitly not to lock in the way their stories ended, but to create legends of their endings. The creators both felt that legendary heroes became more clearly legendary if they had a final tale, even if everyone was free to ignore it. USM, meanwhile, was the beginning of an alternate universe take on Spidey meant to evoke the original high-school era of Peter's life. The key here is that all three stories were created to be out of continuity with the characters' histories or destinies in their own books, so the writers were free to do whatever they liked without fear of causing problems. As for Byrne, he approached all of his work with respect for the characters' personalities as shown in prior comics. His occasionally . . . let's say peculiar . . . story themes were his own, but at least the characters still spoke in their own voices. I think the problem a lot of readers are having is the way that King's own ideas tend to eclipse both the story style of the characters and their actual personalities. As a comparison, you can send Sherlock Holmes to an alien planet as a bizarre fish-out-of-water story, to see how his methods handle a strange new environment. You can have Holmes as a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations, as an alternative take on his classic obsessions (that's the BBC Sherlock approach). If you send a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations to an alien planet, you're not even close to telling a Sherlock Holmes story anymore. That's what Tom King's writing feels like sometimes. It's going to be up to him to prove that he can turn a self-serious, grim political thriller starring warrior women into a Wonder Woman story.
It’s also a misnomer that Themyscira was predominantly a warrior culture. They are warriors but not a warrior culture. Thor comes from a warrior culture. The Amazonian people are scientists, artists, athletes, etc. They’re culture is defined by self improvement and being the best version of yourself, not fighting.
Hi ! Just wanted you to know you are one of my favorite channel on TH-cam ^^ Every video is so well researched and full of nuance. You paint a beautiful portrait everytime and I wish you the best !
Honestly, Wonder Woman is not a hard character to write as long as you remember her core values and traits. Also, to create a new Wonder Woman storyline and villain all writers have to do is look into mythology and give her an evil god or monster to fight. Mythology is at the core of her stories, so draw from that. Superman is sci fi pulp, Batman is Noir, and Wonder Woman is fantasy and mythology.
Thanks for covering this in a balanced way. I understand why King is polarizing, but I tend to like his writing (I thought the last issue of Danger Street was hilarious). I mostly view his work as elseworlds stories so I get nervous when he's put on main titles. Sampere's art is awesome though so I'm here for it at least as long as he is!
I would love to see you do a deep dive on something like Omega Men, which to me feels like the most King book in terms of not having to bend himself to the magnitude of the character.
From the comments here i see that this might be one of those runs that i’ll love but some hardcore fans will hate. I like that this first issue takes the time to set things up and just shows us Diana shortly, so we understand the context she is in. I like the themes. I like the perception of her as a rebel against the status quo - she was literally created by Marston for that reason. I like the idea of sovereign. The art is amazing. Really, how is this clumsy or not in character (she barely shows up and people already decided she is not in character). Idk. Maybe ends up being annoying and frustrating like his Batman run, but for me its off to a great start.
Also, I've already read a DC Comic that covered a "secret origin of America." John Ostrander's Spectre run went with the Founding Fathers having a secret ceremony which created a ghostly avatar for the United States... which went on to bevome Uncle Sam. The ending was a little hokey, but it looked at America as flawed but optimistic. There's worse stories and hot takes on America than that.
I'm hoping that Lasso of Lies comes from Eris in some way. I really like her as an anti-Wonder Woman, and having her use a lasso like that to manipulate the world (especially if she used it past America, maybe passing it down from one conquering superpower to the next as a more powerful "golden apple") could be a lot of fun.
As far as I can recall, Sarge Steel (formerly of Charlton) had his first DC appearance in "Legends" in 1987, the same series that introduced the Waller, so he is a contemporary of here, in that sense, and pre-dates her in others. Curiously, he was Diana's boss at the DEO during the Gail Simone run. Traditionally, he's a good guy. Using Steel, rather than the Wall, though... Not only is his genitalia is on the outside, but he's also Caucasian. Neither is true for Waller. Maybe it's part of the point King is trying to make. As you said, there's no subtlety.
With all due respect, I feel like, in our current political climate, we’re well past the time for subtlety. If you want to break down a concrete wall, you wouldn’t use a scalpel as your first choice.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 As the other Sarge Steel fan, I'm not pissed, just mystified. Why take a character with established heroic characteristics and turn him into an overt bad guy? Could have just created a new character to fit the bill. I'm sure few tears will be spilled over the Sarge's heel turn, but it's a pattern in King's work I'm tired of.
Thank-you for a great video and creating a space to discuss comics, greatly appreciated. You made some great points and I was very inspired to comment. Writing Wonder Woman isn't difficult, and I agree with another commenter that her basic character is not complicated. The fact tom has already made such an incredibly immature statement about taking George Perez's comment so personal and challenging, is a grossly SAD red flag about the basic white/colonist man's alarming DEFICIENCY. It's clear any writer having to kill off Amazons in their first issue's run, does not have the respect or basic creative ability to even be allowed the position of getting anywhere near a character, especially Wonder Woman. The first issue was a total projection of who tom is as a powerful woman, what a tragic MESS. The outfit given to Wonder Woman's daughter should have been the costume given to Wonder Woman, to say the least, really, it's past time for an updated and respectful outfit.
I never understand the need to put down other heroes in order to prop up the one you're writing. Black Canary is about as rebellious as it comes, she's literally been defined lately as ground level punk fighting against the establishment. Hell, her voice is used to sing, which is literally an artform. Perhaps the best example to describe what they seem to be solely attributing to Diana, which is kinda baffling. To me if you want to describe WW as different in the context of America, you don't have to diminish her role as a fighter. To me Diana has always been about truth first and foremost. Batman is justice, Superman is hope, but Diana is about understanding. She's an outsider through and through, and as a result is able to approach any element of humanity from a fresh perspective. And her struggle as a character is being able to understand even the negatives of the world without condemning them. That's the strength of the lasso, if she encounters someone that calls her a bitch, she can use it to know what they truly think and understand why they'd resort to that kind of language. But in this context when you present someone as just being that evil man here to represent how America and sexism is bad, her choosing to crush his fist feels like something any female hero could do. I can see Canary doing that, Supergirl, Starfire, Batwoman, it's not exactly a strong stand out moment so much as it's kinda played out and safe. And for her to have forgiveness and understanding without sacrificing her ground or refusing to fight is in itself a bold concept and something that I feel can be inspiring for anyone. Hell it's a good reason Dr. Psycho could be her main antagonist, they both refuse to back down when it comes to the battle of beliefs. Psycho uses illusions and manipulation to get what he wants, Diana uses truth regardless of if it's pleasant or ugly. It feels like the elements are there, and trying to say that they aren't and that you need to set the standard by going a different direction feels less like taking up a challenge and more overstating your importance. At least in my opinion, I don't know Tom King very well outside some of his work.
Very interesting. I haven't read anything by Tom King that I'm aware of, but what you're describe sounds a lot like the problem I have with Brian Michael Bendis. The man is very clearly a strong competent writer, but he kind of puts *everything* subservient to the story he's trying to tell. Character traits, pacing, past history, none of it really matters in the end, because he's going to tell the story he wants to tell no matter what. Sounds like the same issue here.
I have this one Wonder Woman/Ragman Chanukka story in my head that I'd love to write but will never get the chance. It basically revolves around the fact that WW is for all intents and purposes a Greek golem, and it would involve an ancient maccabee-era golem created to fight the Greeks reawakening in present day. It practically writes itself.
Here is my timeline of the Earth-Two/New Earth/Prime Earth Wonder Woman Family. 1938: The Golden Age begins. 1940: The JSA was formed. 1941: Steve Trevor crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing Diana to arrive on Man’s World, make her debut as the first Wonder Woman, and take on the identity of Diana Prince in DC. Helena Kosmotos made her debut as the first Fury. The Seven Soldiers of Victory, All-Star Squadron, and Freedom Fighters were formed, and the Freedom Fighters traveled to Earth-X. 1942: Diana joined the JSA. The Young All-Stars were formed before they eventually became part of the All-Star Squadron. 1948: The Seven Soldiers of Victory were scattered throughout time. 1951: The JSA disbanded. 1953: Diana traveled to Earth-59 and teamed up with the Earth-59 Wonder Woman to defeat Duke Dazam. 1956: The Silver Age begins. 1961: Flash of Two Worlds. 1962: Diana and Steve Trevor were married. 1963: The JSA came out of retirement and teamed up with the Earth-One JLA to defeat the Crime Champions. Hector Hall was born. 1964: Hippolyta “Lyta” Trevor, the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor, was born. 1970: The Bronze Age begins. 1972: The JSA and Earth-One JLA rescued the Seven Soldiers of Victory. 1973: The Earth-X Freedom Fighters were teamed up with the JSA and the Earth-One JLA. 1976: The JSA, Earth-One JLA, and Earth-S Squadron of Justice team up to defeat Earth-S King Kull. 1981: Judgment in Infinity. 1982: Diana revealed her identity as the first Wonder Woman to the world. Beautiful Dreamer, Death Unto Thee. Earth-One Diana Wonder Woman meets Lyta Trevor. Lyta Trevor made her debut as the second Fury, and Hector Hall made his debut as the Silver Scarab. Infinity Inc. was formed. 1984: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were engaged. 1985: Crisis On Infinite Earths. Diana and Steve Trevor arrive on Mount Olympus, causing Lyta Trevor to graduate as the second Wonder Woman. The JSA was sent to Limbo. 1986: Legends. 1987: Hector Hall was killed, resurrected, and graduated as the second Sandman. Millennium. 1988: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were married. Infinity Inc. was disbanded. Cosmic Odyssey. Invasion! 1989: Hector Hall was killed again. 1990: Daniel Hall was born. 1991: War of the Gods. Armageddon 2001. 1992: Eclipso: The Darkness Within. The JSA returned from Limbo. 1993: Bloodlines. 1994: Zero Hour. The JSA disbanded. 1995: Underworld Unleashed. Daniel Hall made his debut as the third Sandman. 1996: The Final Night. 1997: Genesis. 1998: DC One Million. 1999: The JSA was reformed again. Hector Hall was resurrected, graduated as the fifth Doctor Fate, and joined the JSA along with Lyta Trevor. Day of Judgement. 2001: Our Worlds At War. 2004: Identity Crisis. 2005: Infinite Crisis. Hippolyta Trevor and Hector Hall disappeared. 2006: Diana and Steve Trevor died. 52. 2007: One Year Later. 2008: Final Crisis. 2009: The JSA All-Stars were formed. The Titans disbanded again. Blackest Night. 2010: Brightest Day. The JSA All-Stars disbanded to join the JSA. 2011: Flashpoint. 2013: Forever Evil. Trinity War. 2014: The Multiversity. Trinity of Sin. 2015: Convergence. DCYou. Darkseid War. 2016: DC Rebirth. 2017: Dark Nights: Metal. 2020: Dark Nights: Death Metal. Endless Winter. 2021: Infinite Frontier. The Lost Children (renamed the Young Society) returned. 2022: Dark Crisis. Lazarus Planet. 2023: Dawn of DC. Knight Terrors. 2025: Time Crisis. 2030: Secret Crisis.
Merciful Minerva but yes! Diana's core villain IS Dr Cyber. There was plenty that Denny O'Neil didn't like about his own run on WW, but his arch nemeses are hard to beat!
I thought the issue was fine but definitely a story that would be better suited for Black Label. The continued talk about how Diana is different from the Trinity (and other heroes), how she does not have this or that, sadly just reinforces to me that all King sees is "woman", and if he wants an archnemesis, Circe, Ares and Cheetah are right there. It might be adressed later and this might as well be King working through his apprehensions about Wonder Woman, but working through that isn't something I'm interested in when it's her one monthly ongoing. The Lasso of Lies is an easy fix to go back to the status quo, but also makes the critique kind of mood to me.
In general, King's stories seem to work better as elseworlds stories, because as soon as you try to connect the characters in his stories to how they are usually depicted in the main continuity you usually brush up against (sometimes literal) character assassination. just look at the JLI (in 'Human Target'), Adam Strange or the New Gods from some of his latest maxi series. (in a vacuum, they were decent enough stories, but there were some 'Watchmen' levels of deconstruction happening to the main characters there) Supergirl was straddling the line in the comic focusing on her. (not entirely out of character, but a very grumpy and violent version of her)
I admire your thoughtfulness and sense of humor: Good Job ..nuanced.....juxtapose ..... from metaphorical to allegorical.... Yes: As soon as the word Artist was read it seemed inappropriate and the first thought was also "Warrior".... far more dynamic and powerful than "soldier". Curious to read it because of your analysis......... thank you.... Best and Most Articulate Award....goes to.....
1:24 comicpop was not a fan of Tom King and critiqued his work. But with the help of his wife now they are good friends and he shills for Tom's work hard now
Diana going up against societal structures does make sense given she grew up in a completely different type of society but within a status quo that tries to mirror the real world she can't really cause the change she might be fighting for so I think it would definitely make sense for it to be an elseworld. This is probably why it had to fall back on having one bad guy be the cause of all the bad stuff that's going on and I can't really see that it's going to be a satisfying conclusion to have Diana beat the Sovereign because one secret bad guy just doesn't fit within the allegory as the cause of the problem and she'll go back to living in a world that mirrors ours where the problems she fought continue on.
I love stories that explore Diana's inherent otherness due to just how different her society is. This however, so far, is not that. It'll be interesting to see how this arc goes.
I’m okay with big swings. I like that King sees writing Wonder Woman AS a big deal and important. The art is phenomenal! Im cautiously optimistic! That said: I really liked the first couple of issues of Azzerello’s run too and now I hate it with a passion. Like Diana doesn’t need a daddy! The Amazons didn’t need to be turned evil! What are you doing?!
I feel I must disagree with the "Why not just use Waller, highlight some female villains." in part because King is clearly focusing on patriarchal ideals within the concept of warriors/war/soldiers via modern America (which is so up his alley it's got his name on the alleyway sign). But also that to my knowledge/perception Wonder Woman has twice as many female villains as male ones. Veronica Cale, Dr Cyber, Silver Swan, Circe, Cheetah...I know there's more vs Dr Psycho, Ares and arguably Maxwell Lord. I think it's quite smart to bring in a forgotten character, a man with a literal iron fist to represent American Military Industrial Complex & have WW crush it. It's very Tom King. But as Tom King things go...seems like a solid first issue. Even though it highlights his fear of writing WW by...not really writing WW.
That's why Waller would work because she's using other super powered people to basically commit war crimes for he US government. Waller/Suicide Squad vs WW would be a good arc and still do what Tom King likes to do
Narrative wise it REALLY comes off as chasing the whole "Comics have grown up" dragon trying to repeat Moore/Miller's watershed stories with all the panels showing news media demagoguery (I hated Hack Snyder for doing that in Superman too, it's just been ran into the ground and now cliche for pretentious comic writers). Then you got this Frankenstein's Monster of storylines I remember reading in the past with these themes like Uncle Sam: Freedom Fighters where the President is killed and replaced by an evil android designed by the Anti-Life Equation, the J Michael Straczynski WW story line where she' and the Amazons are on the run form some black ops company (and Jim Lee scribbled on a napkin some boring redesign of her in a leather jacket and pants and that was the most actual work he had done in years since Hush), hell there's that Tales form the Dark Multiverse retelling of War of the Gods which ends with world governments (or was it just 'Murica?) becoming Handmaidens Tale. Now the actually reference one of the most hated events in the 00s Amazons Attack?! I am so tired of this, how many "reboots" have occurred officially since N52? Is it officially just a pick-n-choose what's cannon to the current creative team on a book, cause I was scratching my head too with the Fire & Ice Smallville where Tora mentions her dying which happened in the mid-late 90s and I assumed was rebooted away a long time ago! Last I gotta say, I thought Heroes in Crisis was my reason for loathing Tom King, I was unaware of that interview using his daughter to galvanize him to wanna write WW for her and makes it this polarizing, cynical word salad drivel, and making the late great George Perez's funeral about HIMSELF!? What a #$(@ing putz; huffing his own farts furiously!
I recently read Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow...and Loved it (I also did a video about it on my channel). So, I'll definitely be checking out Wonder Woman #1.
I have persistently purchased Wonder Woman comics for nearly 30 years (through the good and bad)… but King taking over the writing chores finally convinced me to drop the title. I dislike his character-assassinating, ultra-depressive style that much.
The original Golden Age Wonder Woman is still my favorite, especially those stories from when Marston was still alive. I do have a soft spot in my heart for Lynda Carter's flawless performance as the character. Perez of course, put an impressive stamp on it.
That "Oh Lawd" meme was right on time, I wouldn't be surprised if you had cornrows under that wig lol anyway, you're definitely invited to the cookout lol
The way I always viewed Wonder Woman was like this duality. That she wants to be peaceful reason with people connect with them, so she doesn't just have to approach things as an Amazonian. Yet off the island in the world of man it tries her pushes her a lot to just fighting. Like the Steve Trevor he's an example of that peace and connecting with humanity. Yet others can push her so heavily she could fall back into her upbringing of a warrior first. I always saw her especially in terms of the trinity as the level headed one the middle balance between Superman and Batman.
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Themyscira is a woman-only "paradise" where women resolve differences through bondage and discipline. Just as William Marston intended.
They have a very strict border policy.
But Tom King would never let the character's history stand in the way of his mindless political pontificating.
I liked what you were wearing in this video Sasha.
Did you see the Movie 2017 The Professor and the Wonder Woman and if so what did you think of it?
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So the original WW movie from a few years ago was hard to make??? Looks to be pretty successful to me which is why they made a sequel. The quality is the question regardless of any film.
On a positive note, Daniel Sampere is crushing the art work. He’s quickly becoming one of my new favorite Wonder Woman artist.
King-penned books consistently have much better artwork than their narratives warrant.
@@christopherb501 i imagine thats why they do half as well as they normally do
That is the Idea...
I think King saying that Batman fights for the law is reductive, and is likely why it turns people away from his take on Batman. Batman fights to save lives. Sometimes the Venn diagram of the law and that goal overlap and sometimes it doesn't
Yeah. We always say that "Batman is waging a war against crime and criminals," but that's not really the case. If the government outlawed eating fish, Batman wouldn't start beating up people who eat fish. If the government legalized murder, Batman wouldn't stop beating up murderers. He says he's against "crime," but he's using that term more to mean "victimization."
Sometimes I get the feeling Tom King really doesn’t like Batman, and quotes like that don’t dissuade me,
Eh, I gave that bit of narration a pass since it's implied that the narrator of the issue is the big bad, so it's understandable that his perception would be a bit skewed. Like the people who say that Tarantino doesn't get Superman because of that one monologue from Kill Bill 2, except that monologue is from the perspective of a sociopathic mass murderer who clearly thinks that people like him are above humanity (and is also proven wrong).
@@DuelaDent52I think Tom King just doesn't like men. Look at when he wrote Taskmaster as terrified of a knocked out Black Widow. Dude has issues.
Yeah kinda makes batman sound like a government goon lol
George Perez will never get enough recognition. Not only he revived the popularity of Wonder Woman with his reboot and established a new complex lore that would surround our gorgeous Amazon to this day, but also created, along with Marv Wolfman, the most iconic and transcendental incarnation of the Teen Titans and the first major Crisis that changed DC forever.
R.I.P. Master
I got a bear hug from George Perez at a con once. That guy had some muscle. Lol.
He seemed like a mega-defender of the character, both writing & drawing her and openly criticizing her company for not highlighting her 50th anniversary.
I read a novel once which had as one of its core premises that Wonder Woman (she was called "Princess Powerful" in the book) was a character so trivial, so devoid of actual characteristics, that it made no difference who wrote her or what personality she displayed.
This was seemingly in explicit response to Perez's relaunch of Wonder Woman. I thought it was a strikingly myopic claim, and one of the worst possible examples to use.
He really got Diana as a personality. I have never been happy about his erasure of the Themyscirans' scientific progress across their thousands of years of peace (they were isolated, but they had magical scrying to even that out). There are a ton of ideas left to be explored about what the society of Paradise Island valued enough to study and build upon scientifically versus what they preferred to keep of their ancient ways of living. Having them as spear-wielding warrior-women who haven't changed throughout history was a really bad move, and one that wrecked Wonder Woman's approach to everything. So many writers after Perez got hung up on the "oh, she's a warrior now!" idea. Perez threaded the needle and kept the thing about Diana that makes her really different from the other heroes: Wonder Woman sees the world as wonderful, and seeks to engage with its wonders and show them to all the people she meets. She's a philosophical optimist, and somehow few writers beyond Perez seem to have grasped that.
Omg yes!!! He deserves all the credit!
To me a lot of the times writers start to go the route of “X character has lost its way yada yada” it always ends in edgy😒sigh
Or now the most boiled down mess ever see Nightwing or Power Girl
@@SuperFliegenklatsche true, sadly as well
I dunno sometimes it’s true. Take Spider-Man for example. The writers have made him lose his way since all the way back at OMD!
Art is beautiful in this book. But it’s a “message first” story to me. The characters are just props to deliver whatever the writer wants to lecture the reader about. Also, this felt like Steel’s book. Not Diana’s. He was the focus and it was HIS struggle. Diana felt like a supporting character in her own book. I feel this deep dive into who Strel is could have come later after the story and Diana’s place within the story were more established
Thank you so much for adressing the usa-centrism when it comes to Wonder Woman. I understand why it was originally there given the era and place she was created but I genuinely don't know why so many authors still tie her so much to it. Batman and Superman operating primarily within the usa makes sense given that they are american citizens and also each have their "own" defining cities. But Diana has no Gotham or Metropolis (which is also imo why her rouges gallery feels lacking. Batman villains are iconic because they are so tied to the setting) nor does she have any reason to be in the usa full time. If dc writers can write whole stories set in space, they should be able to write about Diana operating internationally.
That could easily be the foundation of the character. It's still an American story and IP, but WW could represent absurdities like USA taxing citizens across the globe as a form of bondage (pun intended, and PUN INTENDED, not sex-play) of their citizens, who also function as a good excuse to invade countries that allegedly have US civilian hostages. US special agents getting disappeared by CIA need not apply.
Wonder woman could be the spirit of this kind of universalist Americanism, the claim on "Western" culture despite abandoning most of the Greco-Roman infuence except on surface level, and having more in common with post-Abrahamic culture, like Mormonism reflects on christianity the same way fundamentalist reform reflects on 2 Billion muslims in the world.
I would genuinely transform her into clay in an event comic, as a commentary on US racialism over skin color. These writers CANNOT handle topics like US expansionism that appropriation of Byzantine myth INHERENTLY implies, and compels to take a clear side on the side of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But, her criticism of things like circumcision, is blocked for other reasons than lack of maturity, in "western comics" industry. It's mature and quite deliberate. Ridiculous subractions like "Batman is about the law" is the level of maturity we're dealing with, reminds me of the recent blind honking of applause done by the geese in Canada.
Doing stories set in space is much easier, though, since you don't have to worry about creating an accurate depiction of a real culture.
You wouldn't even have to go into space. An artificial island anchored in international waters, underwater or a city in the Arctic/Antarctic would do. When it comes to the oceans I'm sure Wonder Woman could come to an agreement with Aquaman. Register it with the UN and the Amazons could have their own country.
@@ravenwilder4099 I think that if someone is to be a professional writer for a big company then they ought to be able to do some research on how the everyday life in other countries is? And it's honestly not something that you really need to give a huge focus on: have a story where WW has to spend some time fighting a villain in one country, focus on the action, and then have her fight someone else somewhere else. And if they want her base of operations to be in the usa then at least give her a distinct setting like most other heroes.
@@nikoletta3855 People have tried to give Diana a distinct setting, it's just that once a new creative team takes over, they have a tendency to ignore everything the previous creative team did, so none of those distinct settings lasts for very long.
It bugs me when people say WW doesn't have a rogues gallery. It's only because she hasn't had as much exposure outside of the comics. All the big JLers have had TV shows and cartoons. She hasn't.
But I do think her archenemy is and always will be Cheetah. Part of the appeal of Wonder Woman is seeing her relationships with other women, many of whom are antagonists. You don't see that anywhere else in a major, ongoing superhero comic book.
Her archenemy should be a scientist from the future...as you are...
@@uranuslad9855 omg I love you. 🤣
I know cheetah doesn't want to be saved but everytime I see her that's all I want. Veronica Cale can be the big villain for a while. Give me Barbara for like three issues.
I like Circe as her nemesis better
@@kail4997 I love Circe but she doesn't push merchandise the way Joker, Lex, or Cheetah do.
Even in Black Label books King doesn't include the actual swear words most of the time. He's said that he prefers the use of grawlix.
Interesting that King could take a legendary artist's dying words and make it about himself. Fascinating.
Ah, that's nothing new. There are plenty of people who have said, "Give me a sign" and the sign came to them in some form or another. If what he said is true, that's probably all it was to him.
Thank you!
And I think he could’ve even spun in away where he could have said something like “I was inspired by George’s words and I wanted to see if we could reach the watermark set by him!” Making it more about the work of those who came before and the words of them rather be than me me me!
He was challenging ME calling ME a coward laughing at ME, you’re literally projecting your feelings on the words of a dying man who was talking about his own life accomplishments!!!!!!
Edit: Spelling
Tom king is a great writer
@@akkakkakekkn Tom King CAN be a great writer*
it mainly comes down to if he has to deal with an established canon or characterization of a character then he kinda falls apart a little bit,
I feel like Tom King would be a great AUTHOR, not so much a COMIC BOOK WRITER,
because when it comes to standalone character pieces and standalone stories I feel like he can do that well.
But comic books are almost never standalone, and the things he struggles with the most are found most often in this particular medium of comics…
Except maybe TV? Now that most shows are episodic in nature to some degree…
But outside of those I think it has proven to have some writing chops but not all writing is equal and not all writers are good at all writing equally… that’s a rare talent to have! 😊
Edit: grammar
Such a weird and pessimistic way to interpret what he said... Fascinating
I gotta admit, the idea of making Amanda Waller the reoccurring nemesis to Wonder Woman seems like a great idea to me.
Why tho.
@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 The comparitions & contrast between 2 powerful and influent women
I think it's really smart because they both want similar things but have opposite ways of getting them and interpreting peace
@@isaiahtorok7079
You wouldn't want any kind of peace that has Amanda Waller backing it.
I've noticed that Amanda Waller is a perfect foil for DC's big three. The Suicide Squad, Cadmus and Amanda's hardline nature is a very good contrast against Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman.
Wonder Woman ain’t complicated. I might actually start a channel and make a video about this because it matters to me that much. George Perez understood it better than most. She’s an ambassador of peace. She’ll fight if needed, but she would rather connect with people. We need to ditch the Roman gladiator armor look which implies she came looking for a fight and go back to the suit that was given to her to wear as an olive branch to man’s world.
Perez constantly refers to her classic look as battle armour though. I still agree the militaristic look doesn't always give the best vibe.
I would hardly call a swimsuit based on a single country's flag to be an "olive branch to the world". Especially when said flag isn't even the one of her country.
@@cui8789 The original reason she wore it was because it represented the free world. An olive branch to that she’s here as an ally. Plus, America is not the only country with red white and blue on it. It’s just the most prominent one on the global stage.
@@ivansobubblehead it wasn’t Roman battle armor. It is armor, but the Roman gladiator look is different in message than what she wore before which looked more like a costume designed to convey ideals. Much like how even though captain America also wears armor, it’s primary goal is to express what he stands for
@@ivansobubblehead tbf she is an immortal goddess raised on an island of warriors.
I've read most of Wonder Woman - and by that I mean everything from 1941 to present day. And I have read contemporaneous issues since 1978. So, I am well acquainted with all the reboots and reimagining and direction changes over the years. For me, this actually feels clumsy, like the change of Wonder Woman to her kung fu era in an attempt to make her more contemporary and more feminist. Wonder Woman is a very strong character, and she always reverts to her basic core character despite efforts to make her a God or a fast food clerk or what have you. Having Wondy versus the US government is ok, but it does feel a lot like a couple of guys going "What if she really kicked ass? Like totally kicked ass?"
This sound clownish lmao. Wonder woman fighting the goverment fits her character aesthetic
I always love how you make space for your viewers to form their own opinions, and the care with which you explore all sides of an issue fairly. I wish comic book writers could do the same. I would be interested in you dipping back into King's run after a year or so and telling us how you feel at that point.
I agree that Sasha is wonderful in how she approaches these potentially divisive subjects, but I wouldn't want writers generally trying to explore all sides fairly. Yes, empathy is an important tool for writers and seeing multiple characters' perspectives, but not trying to see all sides of a creative issue like "What makes a good Wonder Woman story?". Ultimately, good writing comes from a writer following their own muse and their own inspiration, and no great story is accepted by everyone.
Not all sides need to be treated fairly. Racisim, Theocraticism, Fascism, and Tyranny should never be considered valid thoughts.
indecisiveness in a story can easily stem from trying to explore all sides fairly. Most great stories come from an author exploring their own side of the story instead of trying to please everyone.
@@ProjektTakuobviously. Well said. If you get upset that a piece of art isn’t covering “your side” then you really need to stop being so fragile and narcissistic.
@@Lukecash2How many people push for fascism & tyranny? Haha
Every time one of these modern writers use the word "relatable" I already get worried. "Relatable to whom", because I usually find it hard to relate to these new takes on characters, even when I could in the past. Also, DC heroes are supposed to be, at least to me, aspirational, something we strive to be. They represent the best of humanity to the point that their civilian identities are also about helping others, even the rich dudes like Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen. I don't want to relate to DC heroes, I want to be like them despite not being a crimefighter, having superpowers, or wearing a colorful outfit. They aren't supposed to be like us; that's Marvel's deal. We are supposed to be more like them.
He's doing it for his kid, yet then he's writing something clearly in his wheelhouse because he once worked for the government. So instead of writing something for his little girl and younger readers. He's writting JUST for himself and making excuses.
This.
Being relatable and being aspirational are not mutually exclusive. You can't aspire to be someone you can't relate to on some level.
Oh my God I am gonna puke when you said "that's marvels deal".
When will you clowns realize marvel and dc interlap with writer 99 percent of the time? Why do you clowns make these general statements
For me, the Lasso of Truth is a double-edged sword. Truth can be freeing, and also extremely painful. The idea of having a "Lasso of Lies" is just, IMO, silly, as it doesn't really MEAN anything. Just as the real reason, IMO, that Diana doesn't have an "archenemy" the way Superman and Batman do, is twofold. One, back in the early days, exemplified by Paul Von Gunther, and Transformation Island, she truly believed in reforming her foes. And two, she has been hard to define by her creative teams, and even her fans, making someone who would be the antithesis of who she is hard to create, since that has yet to be fully fleshed out.
Cof Ares, Circe, Cheetah, Devastation cof
Can I just fangirl for a second that both Wonder Women and Sailor Moon can use their headpieces as a a weapon in a similar way! 💕 👑 🌙
Wonder woman also had a costume change transformation too. Was just less elaborate
@@apex2000 @Superaqualad5459
Now it's Starfire with the magical girl transformation sequence.
I think writers like Greg Rucka, George Perez, Gail Simone, and Phil Jimenez have really written her well as a compassionate ambassador of peace who is also a fierce warrior when her hand is forced. This juxtaposition is why I love their runs and how well-balanced her warrior and pacifist sides can be. This can be ruined quickly when fans and writers take out-of-context rare moments where Diana’s morality was pushed to the limits and pretend Diana is a vicious gladiator that seldom negotiates peace. WW #1 by Tom King had an interesting start that embraced her lore that I’m ready to see more of.
PS, Casually Comics, I’d love for you to do a solo video on KSD’s Wonder Woman Historia: The Amazons! ❤️
what part of her lore did he embrace?because im not seeing any of that. king doesnt understand a thing about wondie
@@garycannon4644try reading what they said again. WW isn’t the warrior with sword and shield. She’s peaceful. It’s okay to change things, but when I read anything WW as a kid, she never had a sword and shield. She was peace and love.
@@Akkbar21 Wonder Woman hates killing in the past,since Max Lord incident back in the 2000's she was portrayed more and more like a bloodthirst and vicious warrior until Rebirth undone this. This book is awfful. King just cannot write a true super-hero book without your Cynical Dark and Edge desconstruction of DC classic characters.
@@EvandroACruz Diana was only portrayed as bloodthirsty in a few elseworlds and the New 52 Justice League. In her own book, she was reasonable and level headed. And I'm not seeing any deconstruction in this book.
Maxwell Lord's neck: *Exists*
Diana: "AND I TOOK THAT PERSONALLY!!"
I watched Thinking Critical's rant. I then watched Blerd's video, where he basically gave the finger to half of the audience. I would like to say, I truly appreciate your middle ground approach to covering this comic. You do great work.
I haven't read this comic yet have you?
Is it any good?🤔
that guy is really odd. he seems like he's just dying to go full comicsgate at any moment. and thats from just watching a few minutes after reading this comment. TC is creepy aggrieved comic dude adjacent at best.
It’s always funny cause blerd is constantly looking for subscribers but also turning off half his audience. I too love Sasha’s middle ground takes
@@shawnboahene5231 But that's also the role of a critic. Sasha spends time in her essays like this clearly holding an opinion, yet trying to shape to meet both advocates and detractors of the work. I'll contrast with Roger Ebert -- one of the reasons I liked his reviews is that he tried to meet the material where it was coming from, and also tried to not apply too many of his internal biases, but usually landed firmly on an approach. And he wrote books about where, over the course of years, he'd re-assessed movies and come to a different conclusion. Or how he listened and changed on if video games could be art, somewhat. Him grappling with his opinions on a work openly and honestly help me better understand what I want from a work, than trying to do an A/B approach.
That's blerd for ya lol
Verisimilitude is a very helpful word for comic discussion. Helps criticize the world cohesion without necessarily throwing away the fantastical elements in it.
That is an excellent point. It was exactly this that immediately took me out of this. The laughably bad setup that went from 0-100. I am a huge espionage story fan and this is as clever and subtle as an anvil. The narrative to describe Wonder Woman was a 10 on the Tom King pretensiousness scale. If you don't buy into his ludicrious plot and world building then it is far too easy to pull the threads and unravel everything. Typical Tom King. Another good artist wasted on a bad story.
So to start things off positively, I think the art is absolutely gorgeous. It looks amazing and has some great action to it and the mystery of who the Blonde Amazon is and why she's going on this killing spree.
Now onto the gripes. While I do enjoy King's work, the first issue is as subtle as Artemis trying to smuggle Mistress into an airplane. It feels like I've read this type of story before from various other writers in the Big Two and the indies scene. On top of it, it seems like things escalated way too fast, and would have been better if Diana was in a race against time to find the Mystery Amazon, or else the US government would make its move due to growing tensions.
It might just also be the fact that I've heard a lot of what King is trying to say on a daily basis and would rather have the series be Diana go on this grad Odyssey of an adventure interacting with creatures, gods, and heroes from mythology. I'll give it my usual 3 issue try but at the moment the 1st Issue didn't grab me.
That would have been so much better, getting 'this' story like 6 issues in. My biggest point of confusion was just how many amazonians are just living in the US. They said the taskforce killed or deported over 300, but earlier it was stated the vast majority of amazonians had already left.
Now paradise island never looks massive to me so it sure feels like thousands and thousands of amazonians just living on US soil should be its own story in the first palce.
@@MisterKetch that actually raises a good point cause that’s only looking at the US rather than the world as a whole.
As 2nd gen American myself it also adds some questions to why there are so many Amazons in the US. If it was in the thousands then it might mean something is up at home which is causing them to immigrate. It would be a very interesting story to see why they’re leaving paradise island to set roots in a different area.
Who cares about subtlety. Enough with you clowns being upset by a raw left leaning message.
As a South American King's run already lost me. The man has always had stories that draw on his experience from his CIA days, and those can be really good (character's acting "out of character" aside), but his decision to give Wonder Woman, a hero who has fought gods all around the world, a a US-centric story is, I believe, totally missing the mark about what makes the character work.
To me, it'd feel like making a Fantastic Four comic in which the family stays in New York the entire time. I hope this is just his first arc and he opens his horizons as he goes along. That said, the fight scene narration was horrible, and, like you said, I hope this is either addressed directly, or it'll just show how little King understands of the character.
Never want anything to fail, least of all a character that needs an iconic run, but I don't really have my hopes up.
I totally agree. Every single Justice League member but Aquaman already leads with the United States, why can't Diana be more international?
No you are actual clown. Wonder woman whole thing is US centric. She functioned as world war 2 propaganda nazies. She should be fighting the government
@@apenasmaisumdiogo.7115because she is a US centric hero canonically
I will say I like the art in this, and particularly Wonder Woman's design. She looks less cheesecake and more like this was a choice of some kind. Something vaguely practical, even though it really isn't. It's interesting.
I like the fact that superman is now the lone trinity member with an impractical design due to batman and WW's armor looks.
Although I do kinda miss her classic design.
@@ProjektTakuSuperman doesn’t need armor. He’s invincible. His suit is the blankets he was in as a baby.
@@Akkbar21 yeah, idk why some versions try to make it so armory.
@@ProjektTaku Honestly, I'm a sucker for the armory look. Injustice got me into it.
@@mehlessmidori602 fair, I guess it would make sense Superman needs armor so that it can withstand whatever hits him, I just don't like injustices bulky approach. If you toned it down it'd be a pretty fantastic superman redesign, much better than the new 52's.
The good things about this comic (aside from the artwork) are Sarge Steel doing something, Diana not surrendering to the military and doing her throwing the tiara thing from pre-Crisis as well as talking to Steve Trevor and resuming her identity as Diana Prince, and the appearance of the Sovereign.
Thank you for your insights, Sasha. I don't care for the story you described so I won't be too worried about collecting it. Maybe down the road, sometime, maybe not. Sampere's art is quite eye-catching, though I think he makes certain characters' heads too small, including WW's. (I voiced this opinion on X/Twitter last week, and was pleased to learn that I wasn't the only one to feel this way.) To me, Wonder Woman is a fantasy (NOT mythology, or rather, not JUST mythology) character, and that's how creators need to treat her: unleashed, wild imagination. Purple healing rays, invisible jets, giant kangas, telepathic radios, and the like. Yes, her "cause," her "agenda," is about "real" things like peace, equality (or equity), and human rights, and those are the things she fights for, but I feel a lack of imagination has been plaguing her and her section of the DCU for quite a while now. For years, the DC/Marston Amazons were a peaceful, positive society where they would engage in battle only if necessary. Those Amazons would never "Attack." They had evolved over the centuries they had lived on their island. These warrior women could still "take care of business," but always preferred peace. They became so advanced that the firearms of Man's World were merely playthings to be used in their game of Bullets and Bracelets. Those are the Amazons I want to read about. That's the Wonder Woman I want to see.
I'm so glad someone understands how the Amazons are supposed to be. I feel like writers have relied too much on the warrior aspect of the Amazons forgetting that Themyscira was the Isle of Paradise, a place of peace for women who had been harmed. It would be so nice to see writers rely on the more community aspect of them rather than the battle ready aspects
I appreciate seeing Diana use the tiara boomerang prominently. And I get trying to make a relic that's a dark counterpart to the lasso, but the execution just makes it come off as meh to me. Like something that won't get a lot of play once King leaves.
I said this before elsewhere but the art is really good. Crisp and clear as well as detailed and leaving a lot of space for the artwork's colors.
Diana has basically suffered from Reboot syndrome, While Clark and Bruce tend to keep stuff, Diana tends to almost start fresh from every reboot/rebrand. The recurring joke that every new Wonder Woman Writer wants to be the definitive Wonder Woman Writer or they only took the book to kill time or if you're John Byrne, used Diana as an excuse to write about the New Gods aka the book he wanted to do.
8:08 The Cloonrad run of Wonder Woman was initially interesting because of Diana meeting Norse gods until she decided to return to Earth to live her life, deal with forgotten Golden and Silver Age adventures (i.e. Milk Company for Golden Age and Image Maker for Silver Age), Trial of the Amazons and Revenge of the Gods being a thing, and ending with Diana in a sleep coma in the 800th issue and her waking up to continue to be active as a superhero. Also, her meeting Yara Flor twice and barely interacting with her family.
Lying lasso should've been silver.
Donna Troy has the silver lasso.
The lasso MO is a rip off of The Duke of Deception.
@@matthewlloyd5130 That's some valuable context. My thinking was silver tongue being associated with lying, but of course there's a silver lasso, haha
Thanks for the info all the same.
Will we ever get all the women who've held the title of wonder woman and wonder girl in one place and time just having fun?
9:50
Leaving aside what people think about Kanigher's stories about Wonder Woman, he had a fundamental role in DC's story, as he was the man behind the creation of very iconic and awesome characters like Black Canary, Sgt. Rock, Poison Ivy and Ragman. He truly deserves to be remembered in a positive light
Kanigher was a fantastic writer when he cared about the character and wanted to do great things with them. He wrote some of the best war stories DC ever did and he was a great writer, but..
He was a terrible Wonder Woman writer and clearly phoned it in. He was just copying what was done in Superman at the time and it shows. It's so badly written, rushed, and none of Kanigher's fantastic abilities or details. He's may have been one of the longest and one of the first WW writers to just.. phone it in, but he certainly wasn't the last and he certainly wasn't one that openly hated Wonder Woman as several more recent writers have.. and his stamp on Wonder Woman is still felt in 2023..
Bro really just called RAGMAN very iconic.
@@ProjektTaku
He's pretty cool, actually. Shame he didn't get enough recognition over the years
@@TetsuShima yeah, I know, its just that there's a difference between cool and iconic.
You're assuming he isn't because people criticized his Wonder Woman stories?
“Writers who use subtext are cowards” - famous horror author Garth Marengi
Your mature measured takes are always appreciated. You are a Wonder Woman.❤
I say both when it comes to Rogues.
Lol Biker WW ftw
The Amalgam version in 'Bullets and Bracelets' is my fav 😊
The 90's outfit was good stuff
I think this would have been a good storyline for The Question Renee Montoya...It doesn't really feel like a storyline for Wonder Woman
All I'll say on the matter is that to me, Diana operates in a similar space to Percy Jackson, but probably an inverse - someone who lives in the world of gods and monsters, where the myths and legends is very much a reality to her rather than a historical curiosity, but the 21st century is the weird world, and trying to balance that.
Also, balancing the roles as a princess and ambassador, and someone who's fundamentally from and representative of a bronze Age warrior culture.
Wonder woman deos not come from bronze age warrior culture
I would love a video discussing why and when the Amazons decided to send some of their other peeps to America. I haven't read Wonder Woman since the 80s, so I'm a little confused by the premise.
I really enjoyed this but it's very divisive and I can totally see how someone may not
It took a lot of work to fix Wally West after Tom King. I will be sitting this one out until they pull the plug and lure a Rucka level Titan in to rehabilitate Diana after King leaves her in tatters.
I love that the best thing they could come up with for Aquaman was "his fish"
That exemplifies the "talent" of Tom King
I think this is the first era in comics where I'm disinclined to buy from specifc comics authors, not because of how they write or even their politics, but because of how they've acted in the real world.
That suggests to me that you haven't been paying enough attention to the fan press.
@@Joesph238 you dont remember how he tried to smear jai lee?
@@garycannon4644whom
Thanks for this. I’m a huge Wonder Woman fan but I didn’t particularly enjoy this issue very much. I guess I’m just an old school simpleton. My favorite was a 23 issue run of WONDER WOMAN: AGENT OF PEACE. They were short, simple and action packed. Probably marketed to a younger audience but I enjoyed them anyway.
My first impressions so far is that I'm not yet sold on this direction for Diana. I get focusing on her being inspiring figure and something a lot of young woman aspire to, but the lack of subtlety in the storytelling is offputting. It worries me because i feel like Diana's character needs some of that subtlety especially if they're going for a peace seeking paragon route. Maybe its the choice of narrator that Im not sure works. But the art is phenomenal, main reason i am reading it.
Oh shut up with your subtlety crap. This is the real world. It isn't subtle.
@18:49 I'm imagining everybody stopping in their tracks after the expletive, just like in "Harley Quinn" when Doctor Psycho called her a @#$%! 😄
I think my problem with Wonder Woman is simply that she lacks cohesion throughout her history.
With Superman and Batman you had creators building onto what's come before and because of that one can draw a relatively straight line from their intial appearences until today and still be able to recognize those characters. Wonder Woman however has been massively retooled over the decades making it much more difficutl to pin her down.
And Tom King isn't helping here at all. An espionage thriller seems to be one of the most incompatible stories one could do with her, since those usually don't gove much room, if any, for her character core of wanting to foster understanding between people.
The character gets yanked all over the place to the point where DC might aswell declare every other run if not every other issue to be an elseworlds.
What Wonder Woman would need is an EXTREMLY basic run where she just has adventures involding her traditional villains and greek mythology. Literally what Perez did and it worked fairly well to the point that basicly all adaptations draw from it.
I'm also still at a loss about the renumbering. Like... why?! Nothing about this story appears to require any reboot or reset of any kind in order to work. Same with The Flash. Why?
The whole Dawn of DC thing is absurd to me because they just slap a new name on the same old problem riddled thing. As far as I'm concerned this is all still the New52.
The thing that people gloss over is that from the beginning Steve Trevor has been an 'intelligence officer'. That means espionage.
Time and time again I heard that the renumbering is kinda a scam to fool people and collectors into buying these books
@@Superaqualad5459 Geoff Johns is probably the worst person for taking care of continuity because he just considers everything to be in canon including the bad stuff that was thrown out of continuity for a reason.
He was the driving force behind bringing back the multiverse even tho it was destroyes to make the comics less confusing. He's not a man of good decisions that's for sure.
I totally agree, instead of building new and engaging stories with Wonder Woman's rich history and connection with greek mythology, they keep trying to reinvent the wheel and make "the" definitive interpretation, even though classics seldom are written to be classics.
I side with J. R.R. Tolkien on allegories. Applicability is infinitely better than allegory.
As always great video with very nuance takes. I wish the comic itself could have been similar, but oh well.
I personally plan on giving King's run two more issues to hopefully find it's footing. But as it's stands now nothing particularly interesting beyond the surface level thing's like the art being pretty
King looks at Wonder Woman as someone who berates them for Diana never sees herself as perfect, but knows that strife cannot be stopped with words alone. It's sad to me that the Masters who have captured the essence of Wonder Woman stories and made them so great are not working on them now.😢
Based on his past works, I'd have been impressed if he'd simply managed to write Sgt. Steel in character. I do not recognize this government agent, and I've read stories featuring him before. Of course, this is the man who engineered a whole story around turning Adam Strange into a war criminal. I'm seriously worried about where this book is going, and we're only a single issue into the run.
@@SingularityOrbit Kings Adam Strange Book was Black Label for a good reason: it's meant to be an examination of the difference between how a war hero is created by propaganda and what it actually takes to win a war.
It also highlights how our fiction often reflects false beliefs of society. Adam Strange is a direct descendant of the White Colonial Savior and American Exceptionalism. Hence intertwining the quotes of Adam Strange into the story.
Since King was in war as a CIA agent, he does have insight into this sort of thing. Obviously exploring that version cannot be made canon to an IP.
Honestly, this feels like the beginning of a Wonder Woman story that isn’t very interested in her or her world.
From my community post: “I don’t necessarily think Wonder Woman is hard to write. There have been some really successful iterations, George Perez, Greg Rucka (twice), Gail Simone and William Messner-Leobs for example. I don’t think King went into this with the right frame of mind plus his track record for deconstructing DC characters unnecessarily. His take even perhaps without the intention is misogynist & criminalising the Amazon’s is such a tired trope. What I think is, like many male writers who take on Diana they don’t know what to do with the WW mythos & especially are challenged writing large groups of female characters so it’s easier to take the Amazons out & reduce Diana to a singular character (Brian Azzerello & Denny O’Neil are examples of this trope). I was angry for much of issue #1 but will admit to being intrigued by the “secret” King at the end. That said I’m a little more Zen than I was reading Azzerello’s revisionist take on Diana than King as I’ve learned with comics “this to shall pass”. 🧘🏼♂️”
TBH the sovereign feels like they could have just resurrected the White Magician into the modern era 🤷
I found the premise and dialogue particularly appalling. I have stuck with WW since childhood, through the best and worst of the character, but this was a bridge too far. It's as if the writing took Dr. Psycho's misogyny and dialed it up to 11. I'll be waiting for this to pass, because I've got no interest in suffering through it.
What's the realistic place to draw inspiration from to write a large group of heroic women? The counterpart of male draft, prostitutes like Iron town in Princess Mononoke? College students taking more and more space in the cafeteria, telling each other "you CAN sit with us"?
@@ivansobubblehead Gives me more a Duke of Deception vibe.
@@ravenwilder4099 The lie part, maybe, but the White Magician claims he was involved with the birth of America, so the "secretly involved with American politics through magical means" reminds me of him.
I must say. I am a more new WW fan, I’ve recently gotten really into her and reading the Perez and Messner-Loebs stuff and I actually picked up WW #1 yesterday. So take my stance with a grain of salt as I may not have the best full knowledge of the character yet but I personally loved the issue. Also as a Tom King super fan, I loved the tone, the art was amazing, it Kept me interested and invested throughout, it was a good single issue I can reread many times. Again, as a newer WW fan my opinion my not be the strongest but I really liked the depiction of Diana, despite understanding that she feels Detached from the story itself, but I really vibe with it, she feels strong and has a impressive Aura, I loved the set up and her big reveal moment. I struggle to articulate myself well (ESPECIALLY on a TH-cam comment) so forgive me if what I say doesn’t make much sense, my brain is very slow and Swiss cheese at times. But essentially I really liked it and I will definitely check out more of the run
Lost me at “as a Tom King super fan” lol
@@deepfriedokra probably being a little over dramatic in the wording but just as someone who really loves his work (that I’ve read)
I think your opinions are valid given your low level of exposure with WW. Sometimes a first encounter with something may seem fantastic, until you gain more experience to look back and really analyse it, at which point you may stick with your original opinion or discard it. As said in the video, there are several points that a reader will either accept what the comic is presenting to them or check out entirely. If you managed to pass all those checks and consider it a good experience then that's fine. There have been times I have disliked something popular or liked something that is hated as well. The only thing that can ever change your opinion is time, experiencing other comparable media and reflection, but you're not necessarily obligated to do that when it comes to a casual hobby, no matter what some enthusiasts may say. Still, I would recommend checking out other WW comics and comparing them to King's as a fun exercise if you really want to.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I do! I never want to live in a echo chamber and I want to read the Azzerello and Rucka stuff too. I also heart Historia was good and continue the runs I’m currently reading. So don’t worry. I won’t just go, “I like this, so I’ll never read that”
If you're getting into Wonder Woman, i recommend u read both of Greg Rucka's runs on the character.
This video got me thinking that Amanda Waller could really be a fantastic villain for Wonder Woman if handled right.
Where Diana is an honorable warrior, Waller uses dirty tactics. There could be a fun exploration of how these two characters have opposing ideologies on how to help mankind, would be pretty interesting. Also Waller could form a task force like the Suicide Squad that she needs to fight (one that could pose a threat to her)
Here's a problem I have with so many writers I hear speaking and a phrase they use. They want to write a "character defining run". They want the glory before the story is even told. The great stories of characters are great often because of how time was good to them. A writer had a good story to tell and told it. Whenever I hear a writer is going to tell a character defining story, it's likely they are going to make some kind of 180 on the character to make it stand out, then the either reset to status quo in the end, or let the next writer retcon the crap they pulled. Just tell a good story! If people like it, if it's well told, then perhaps it will go down as character defining. Also, Tom King is an idiot. I avoid anything he writes now because aside from his okay run on Vision, what he writes turn to crap pretty fast. Which is sad because I'd like to get back into reading Wonder Woman but not while he's writing it.
Me I'm just plain sick of seeing Tom King on a DC book every time I turn around.
I mean, I thought Mr. Miracle and Woman of Tomorrow were pretty good. But like, that’s just my opinion - I don’t have any beef with you for not liking King’s work. I respect your opinion.
I'm not completely disagreeing with you but there are plenty of great superhero comics written with the intention of making it definitive for the character. Plenty of failures too, but for instance whenever John Byrne started a book with a classic character his intention was always to make a lasting impact on that character. All-Star Superman, Dark Knight Returns, Ultimate Spider-man, they all knew what the potential impact was right from the beginning. Wonder Woman at the moment doesn't have anything close to an iconic story in the same way as DKR or even an Alan Moore Superman issue (not talking overall quality, just broad recognizability) so maybe it's fine that people are putting in the effort for WW. Not saying that Tom King can actually pull it off but I think it's fine if that's his intention.
Yeah, everyone wants to "leave their mark" on a character instead of just writing a good story. They're all trying to write the next _Sandman_ or _Batman: Year One_ or _Watchmen._ But when celebrated writers like Miller, Moore, Gaiman, Perez, Morrison, etc. wrote their comics, they weren't thinking "I'm going to write the next blah blah blah." They were thinking "I'm going to write something compelling."
@@spandytube A couple of thoughts on these examples. All-Star Superman and TDKR were both written as "last stories" -- the ends of those characters' stories -- explicitly not to lock in the way their stories ended, but to create legends of their endings. The creators both felt that legendary heroes became more clearly legendary if they had a final tale, even if everyone was free to ignore it. USM, meanwhile, was the beginning of an alternate universe take on Spidey meant to evoke the original high-school era of Peter's life. The key here is that all three stories were created to be out of continuity with the characters' histories or destinies in their own books, so the writers were free to do whatever they liked without fear of causing problems. As for Byrne, he approached all of his work with respect for the characters' personalities as shown in prior comics. His occasionally . . . let's say peculiar . . . story themes were his own, but at least the characters still spoke in their own voices.
I think the problem a lot of readers are having is the way that King's own ideas tend to eclipse both the story style of the characters and their actual personalities. As a comparison, you can send Sherlock Holmes to an alien planet as a bizarre fish-out-of-water story, to see how his methods handle a strange new environment. You can have Holmes as a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations, as an alternative take on his classic obsessions (that's the BBC Sherlock approach). If you send a sociopath who can't handle normal social situations to an alien planet, you're not even close to telling a Sherlock Holmes story anymore. That's what Tom King's writing feels like sometimes. It's going to be up to him to prove that he can turn a self-serious, grim political thriller starring warrior women into a Wonder Woman story.
Tom King? Isn't that the guy who wrote "and then Catwoman knocks out all The Flash family with a kick" and made people draw it
It’s also a misnomer that Themyscira was predominantly a warrior culture. They are warriors but not a warrior culture. Thor comes from a warrior culture. The Amazonian people are scientists, artists, athletes, etc. They’re culture is defined by self improvement and being the best version of yourself, not fighting.
The purple ray needs to make a comeback that'd be a fun way to dive back into the scientist element of the island.
@@CasuallyComicsYES!
Hi ! Just wanted you to know you are one of my favorite channel on TH-cam ^^ Every video is so well researched and full of nuance. You paint a beautiful portrait everytime and I wish you the best !
Honestly, Wonder Woman is not a hard character to write as long as you remember her core values and traits. Also, to create a new Wonder Woman storyline and villain all writers have to do is look into mythology and give her an evil god or monster to fight. Mythology is at the core of her stories, so draw from that.
Superman is sci fi pulp, Batman is Noir, and Wonder Woman is fantasy and mythology.
I wonder why such a concept is so difficult for people, to wrap their brains around.
Thanks for covering this in a balanced way. I understand why King is polarizing, but I tend to like his writing (I thought the last issue of Danger Street was hilarious). I mostly view his work as elseworlds stories so I get nervous when he's put on main titles. Sampere's art is awesome though so I'm here for it at least as long as he is!
I would love to see you do a deep dive on something like Omega Men, which to me feels like the most King book in terms of not having to bend himself to the magnitude of the character.
From the comments here i see that this might be one of those runs that i’ll love but some hardcore fans will hate.
I like that this first issue takes the time to set things up and just shows us Diana shortly, so we understand the context she is in. I like the themes. I like the perception of her as a rebel against the status quo - she was literally created by Marston for that reason. I like the idea of sovereign. The art is amazing.
Really, how is this clumsy or not in character (she barely shows up and people already decided she is not in character). Idk. Maybe ends up being annoying and frustrating like his Batman run, but for me its off to a great start.
I passed this up last week, but now I'm going to pick it up. Thanks for the review.
That's awesome! More people to talk about Wonder Woman with :)
“Aquaman, his fish.”
Also, I've already read a DC Comic that covered a "secret origin of America." John Ostrander's Spectre run went with the Founding Fathers having a secret ceremony which created a ghostly avatar for the United States... which went on to bevome Uncle Sam. The ending was a little hokey, but it looked at America as flawed but optimistic. There's worse stories and hot takes on America than that.
This is the first I've heard of a writer dismantling Wonder Woman's legacy. That would be great to learn about
I'm hoping that Lasso of Lies comes from Eris in some way. I really like her as an anti-Wonder Woman, and having her use a lasso like that to manipulate the world (especially if she used it past America, maybe passing it down from one conquering superpower to the next as a more powerful "golden apple") could be a lot of fun.
That'd be a great idea, it fits like a glove
"Aquaman, his fish" - LOL, it is just impossible to describe Aquaman and make him sound cool.
Lol I laughed out loud at that part, it's such a dramatic statement and then just bam "his fish".
Kinda funny they would get Supes to comment and not show him since he’s even more a foreigner than Amazons. At least they come from Earth lol
As far as I can recall, Sarge Steel (formerly of Charlton) had his first DC appearance in "Legends" in 1987, the same series that introduced the Waller, so he is a contemporary of here, in that sense, and pre-dates her in others. Curiously, he was Diana's boss at the DEO during the Gail Simone run. Traditionally, he's a good guy. Using Steel, rather than the Wall, though... Not only is his genitalia is on the outside, but he's also Caucasian. Neither is true for Waller. Maybe it's part of the point King is trying to make. As you said, there's no subtlety.
With all due respect, I feel like, in our current political climate, we’re well past the time for subtlety. If you want to break down a concrete wall, you wouldn’t use a scalpel as your first choice.
So King turned Sgt, Steel in a bad guy in this book.Another character assassination of a DC character.
@@EvandroACruz Yeah, I bet the other two Sgt. Steel fans are pissed
@@EvandroACruz He's a Charlton character, and DC has had it in for them since 2004.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076
As the other Sarge Steel fan, I'm not pissed, just mystified. Why take a character with established heroic characteristics and turn him into an overt bad guy? Could have just created a new character to fit the bill. I'm sure few tears will be spilled over the Sarge's heel turn, but it's a pattern in King's work I'm tired of.
Nothing can make me groan faster than Sasha saying "Tom King"
What fresh hell has the company come up with today?
Thank-you for a great video and creating a space to discuss comics, greatly appreciated. You made some great points and I was very inspired to comment. Writing Wonder Woman isn't difficult, and I agree with another commenter that her basic character is not complicated. The fact tom has already made such an incredibly immature statement about taking George Perez's comment so personal and challenging, is a grossly SAD red flag about the basic white/colonist man's alarming DEFICIENCY. It's clear any writer having to kill off Amazons in their first issue's run, does not have the respect or basic creative ability to even be allowed the position of getting anywhere near a character, especially Wonder Woman. The first issue was a total projection of who tom is as a powerful woman, what a tragic MESS. The outfit given to Wonder Woman's daughter should have been the costume given to Wonder Woman, to say the least, really, it's past time for an updated and respectful outfit.
I never understand the need to put down other heroes in order to prop up the one you're writing. Black Canary is about as rebellious as it comes, she's literally been defined lately as ground level punk fighting against the establishment. Hell, her voice is used to sing, which is literally an artform. Perhaps the best example to describe what they seem to be solely attributing to Diana, which is kinda baffling. To me if you want to describe WW as different in the context of America, you don't have to diminish her role as a fighter. To me Diana has always been about truth first and foremost. Batman is justice, Superman is hope, but Diana is about understanding. She's an outsider through and through, and as a result is able to approach any element of humanity from a fresh perspective. And her struggle as a character is being able to understand even the negatives of the world without condemning them. That's the strength of the lasso, if she encounters someone that calls her a bitch, she can use it to know what they truly think and understand why they'd resort to that kind of language. But in this context when you present someone as just being that evil man here to represent how America and sexism is bad, her choosing to crush his fist feels like something any female hero could do. I can see Canary doing that, Supergirl, Starfire, Batwoman, it's not exactly a strong stand out moment so much as it's kinda played out and safe. And for her to have forgiveness and understanding without sacrificing her ground or refusing to fight is in itself a bold concept and something that I feel can be inspiring for anyone. Hell it's a good reason Dr. Psycho could be her main antagonist, they both refuse to back down when it comes to the battle of beliefs. Psycho uses illusions and manipulation to get what he wants, Diana uses truth regardless of if it's pleasant or ugly. It feels like the elements are there, and trying to say that they aren't and that you need to set the standard by going a different direction feels less like taking up a challenge and more overstating your importance. At least in my opinion, I don't know Tom King very well outside some of his work.
Thanks for doing this video. While I don't think I'm going to pick up this series, it is nice to see what's going on.
Very interesting. I haven't read anything by Tom King that I'm aware of, but what you're describe sounds a lot like the problem I have with Brian Michael Bendis. The man is very clearly a strong competent writer, but he kind of puts *everything* subservient to the story he's trying to tell. Character traits, pacing, past history, none of it really matters in the end, because he's going to tell the story he wants to tell no matter what.
Sounds like the same issue here.
I have this one Wonder Woman/Ragman Chanukka story in my head that I'd love to write but will never get the chance. It basically revolves around the fact that WW is for all intents and purposes a Greek golem, and it would involve an ancient maccabee-era golem created to fight the Greeks reawakening in present day. It practically writes itself.
That actually sounds like a spectacular plot I would enjoy reading.
Here is my timeline of the Earth-Two/New Earth/Prime Earth Wonder Woman Family.
1938: The Golden Age begins.
1940: The JSA was formed.
1941: Steve Trevor crash-landed on Paradise Island, causing Diana to arrive on Man’s World, make her debut as the first Wonder Woman, and take on the identity of Diana Prince in DC. Helena Kosmotos made her debut as the first Fury. The Seven Soldiers of Victory, All-Star Squadron, and Freedom Fighters were formed, and the Freedom Fighters traveled to Earth-X.
1942: Diana joined the JSA. The Young All-Stars were formed before they eventually became part of the All-Star Squadron.
1948: The Seven Soldiers of Victory were scattered throughout time.
1951: The JSA disbanded.
1953: Diana traveled to Earth-59 and teamed up with the Earth-59 Wonder Woman to defeat Duke Dazam.
1956: The Silver Age begins.
1961: Flash of Two Worlds.
1962: Diana and Steve Trevor were married.
1963: The JSA came out of retirement and teamed up with the Earth-One JLA to defeat the Crime Champions. Hector Hall was born.
1964: Hippolyta “Lyta” Trevor, the daughter of Diana and Steve Trevor, was born.
1970: The Bronze Age begins.
1972: The JSA and Earth-One JLA rescued the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
1973: The Earth-X Freedom Fighters were teamed up with the JSA and the Earth-One JLA.
1976: The JSA, Earth-One JLA, and Earth-S Squadron of Justice team up to defeat Earth-S King Kull.
1981: Judgment in Infinity.
1982: Diana revealed her identity as the first Wonder Woman to the world. Beautiful Dreamer, Death Unto Thee. Earth-One Diana Wonder Woman meets Lyta Trevor. Lyta Trevor made her debut as the second Fury, and Hector Hall made his debut as the Silver Scarab. Infinity Inc. was formed.
1984: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were engaged.
1985: Crisis On Infinite Earths. Diana and Steve Trevor arrive on Mount Olympus, causing Lyta Trevor to graduate as the second Wonder Woman. The JSA was sent to Limbo.
1986: Legends.
1987: Hector Hall was killed, resurrected, and graduated as the second Sandman. Millennium.
1988: Lyta Trevor and Hector Hall were married. Infinity Inc. was disbanded. Cosmic Odyssey. Invasion!
1989: Hector Hall was killed again.
1990: Daniel Hall was born.
1991: War of the Gods. Armageddon 2001.
1992: Eclipso: The Darkness Within. The JSA returned from Limbo.
1993: Bloodlines.
1994: Zero Hour. The JSA disbanded.
1995: Underworld Unleashed. Daniel Hall made his debut as the third Sandman.
1996: The Final Night.
1997: Genesis.
1998: DC One Million.
1999: The JSA was reformed again. Hector Hall was resurrected, graduated as the fifth Doctor Fate, and joined the JSA along with Lyta Trevor. Day of Judgement.
2001: Our Worlds At War.
2004: Identity Crisis.
2005: Infinite Crisis. Hippolyta Trevor and Hector Hall disappeared.
2006: Diana and Steve Trevor died. 52.
2007: One Year Later.
2008: Final Crisis.
2009: The JSA All-Stars were formed. The Titans disbanded again. Blackest Night.
2010: Brightest Day. The JSA All-Stars disbanded to join the JSA.
2011: Flashpoint.
2013: Forever Evil. Trinity War.
2014: The Multiversity. Trinity of Sin.
2015: Convergence. DCYou. Darkseid War.
2016: DC Rebirth.
2017: Dark Nights: Metal.
2020: Dark Nights: Death Metal. Endless Winter.
2021: Infinite Frontier. The Lost Children (renamed the Young Society) returned.
2022: Dark Crisis. Lazarus Planet.
2023: Dawn of DC. Knight Terrors.
2025: Time Crisis.
2030: Secret Crisis.
Merciful Minerva but yes! Diana's core villain IS Dr Cyber. There was plenty that Denny O'Neil didn't like about his own run on WW, but his arch nemeses are hard to beat!
I thought the issue was fine but definitely a story that would be better suited for Black Label.
The continued talk about how Diana is different from the Trinity (and other heroes), how she does not have this or that, sadly just reinforces to me that all King sees is "woman", and if he wants an archnemesis, Circe, Ares and Cheetah are right there.
It might be adressed later and this might as well be King working through his apprehensions about Wonder Woman, but working through that isn't something I'm interested in when it's her one monthly ongoing.
The Lasso of Lies is an easy fix to go back to the status quo, but also makes the critique kind of mood to me.
In general, King's stories seem to work better as elseworlds stories,
because as soon as you try to connect the characters in his stories to how they are usually depicted in the main continuity you usually brush up against (sometimes literal) character assassination.
just look at the JLI (in 'Human Target'), Adam Strange or the New Gods from some of his latest maxi series. (in a vacuum, they were decent enough stories, but there were some 'Watchmen' levels of deconstruction happening to the main characters there)
Supergirl was straddling the line in the comic focusing on her. (not entirely out of character, but a very grumpy and violent version of her)
R.I.P. Arleen Sorkin .
I admire your thoughtfulness and sense of humor: Good Job
..nuanced.....juxtapose ..... from metaphorical to allegorical....
Yes: As soon as the word Artist was read it seemed inappropriate and the first thought was also "Warrior".... far more dynamic and powerful than "soldier".
Curious to read it because of your analysis......... thank you....
Best and Most Articulate Award....goes to.....
1:24 comicpop was not a fan of Tom King and critiqued his work. But with the help of his wife now they are good friends and he shills for Tom's work hard now
Diana going up against societal structures does make sense given she grew up in a completely different type of society but within a status quo that tries to mirror the real world she can't really cause the change she might be fighting for so I think it would definitely make sense for it to be an elseworld.
This is probably why it had to fall back on having one bad guy be the cause of all the bad stuff that's going on and I can't really see that it's going to be a satisfying conclusion to have Diana beat the Sovereign because one secret bad guy just doesn't fit within the allegory as the cause of the problem and she'll go back to living in a world that mirrors ours where the problems she fought continue on.
I love stories that explore Diana's inherent otherness due to just how different her society is. This however, so far, is not that. It'll be interesting to see how this arc goes.
Your Background made me think JSA met the Minions
"There is no subtlety to be found here at all..." 🤣😅🤣😅
Yup. That about sums King's oeuvre up.
I’m okay with big swings. I like that King sees writing Wonder Woman AS a big deal and important. The art is phenomenal! Im cautiously optimistic!
That said: I really liked the first couple of issues of Azzerello’s run too and now I hate it with a passion. Like Diana doesn’t need a daddy! The Amazons didn’t need to be turned evil! What are you doing?!
I found the story to be well-written, intriguing, and intense, and the artwork is nothing short of stunningly beautiful!
I feel I must disagree with the "Why not just use Waller, highlight some female villains." in part because King is clearly focusing on patriarchal ideals within the concept of warriors/war/soldiers via modern America (which is so up his alley it's got his name on the alleyway sign). But also that to my knowledge/perception Wonder Woman has twice as many female villains as male ones. Veronica Cale, Dr Cyber, Silver Swan, Circe, Cheetah...I know there's more vs Dr Psycho, Ares and arguably Maxwell Lord. I think it's quite smart to bring in a forgotten character, a man with a literal iron fist to represent American Military Industrial Complex & have WW crush it. It's very Tom King. But as Tom King things go...seems like a solid first issue. Even though it highlights his fear of writing WW by...not really writing WW.
That's why Waller would work because she's using other super powered people to basically commit war crimes for he US government. Waller/Suicide Squad vs WW would be a good arc and still do what Tom King likes to do
Narrative wise it REALLY comes off as chasing the whole "Comics have grown up" dragon trying to repeat Moore/Miller's watershed stories with all the panels showing news media demagoguery (I hated Hack Snyder for doing that in Superman too, it's just been ran into the ground and now cliche for pretentious comic writers). Then you got this Frankenstein's Monster of storylines I remember reading in the past with these themes like Uncle Sam: Freedom Fighters where the President is killed and replaced by an evil android designed by the Anti-Life Equation, the J Michael Straczynski WW story line where she' and the Amazons are on the run form some black ops company (and Jim Lee scribbled on a napkin some boring redesign of her in a leather jacket and pants and that was the most actual work he had done in years since Hush), hell there's that Tales form the Dark Multiverse retelling of War of the Gods which ends with world governments (or was it just 'Murica?) becoming Handmaidens Tale. Now the actually reference one of the most hated events in the 00s Amazons Attack?!
I am so tired of this, how many "reboots" have occurred officially since N52? Is it officially just a pick-n-choose what's cannon to the current creative team on a book, cause I was scratching my head too with the Fire & Ice Smallville where Tora mentions her dying which happened in the mid-late 90s and I assumed was rebooted away a long time ago!
Last I gotta say, I thought Heroes in Crisis was my reason for loathing Tom King, I was unaware of that interview using his daughter to galvanize him to wanna write WW for her and makes it this polarizing, cynical word salad drivel, and making the late great George Perez's funeral about HIMSELF!? What a #$(@ing putz; huffing his own farts furiously!
I recently read Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow...and Loved it (I also did a video about it on my channel). So, I'll definitely be checking out Wonder Woman #1.
Foul mouthed Supergirl?No thanks.That character is not Kara Zor El in any way.King sucks.
Hope that Lasso of Lies ties backs to that God of Lies from the Golden Age.
As always. A thorough, passionate, analysis.
I have persistently purchased Wonder Woman comics for nearly 30 years (through the good and bad)… but King taking over the writing chores finally convinced me to drop the title.
I dislike his character-assassinating, ultra-depressive style that much.
The original Golden Age Wonder Woman is still my favorite, especially those stories from when Marston was still alive. I do have a soft spot in my heart for Lynda Carter's flawless performance as the character. Perez of course, put an impressive stamp on it.
Genuinely one of my favorite Issue 1’s in a long time. Tom King and Daniel Sampere really are some of the best in the business.😊
8:10 and I loved that run outside of the event lol, great art and felt everything was naturally happening, go figure
That "Oh Lawd" meme was right on time, I wouldn't be surprised if you had cornrows under that wig lol anyway, you're definitely invited to the cookout lol
It's great seeing Heroclix still going AND sponsoring great content like yours.
The way I always viewed Wonder Woman was like this duality. That she wants to be peaceful reason with people connect with them, so she doesn't just have to approach things as an Amazonian. Yet off the island in the world of man it tries her pushes her a lot to just fighting. Like the Steve Trevor he's an example of that peace and connecting with humanity. Yet others can push her so heavily she could fall back into her upbringing of a warrior first. I always saw her especially in terms of the trinity as the level headed one the middle balance between Superman and Batman.