Loved that little clip of the Paladin riding off into the sunset, forsaken by the world that once rested on his shoulders. It needs to become its own little movie just like Supremacy.
@@marcoswillianl They pretty much are as they use hand cannons and are upgraded with archery armor though the game itself doesn't classify them as cavalry archers as skirmishers don't get a bonus when attacking them.
Yes. In T90’s Hidden cup tournament, there were multiple Frank vs Indian matches and the Franks won decisively every time. The berry bonus + free farm techs + free extra health makes for a silky-smooth transition from feudal age to making buffed knights immediately after hitting Castle age. The Frank players also would support their knights with monks, keeping the camels from getting too close, allowing them whittle down the camel numbers and pick engagements.
You underestimate how amazing the Frank berry gather bonus + free farm techs + basically free bloodlines is. It lets them get to Feudal age with a good economy and immediately have upgraded farms which can then be used to make scouts (which have extra health) or progress toward Castle age where they immediately get another farm upgrade for gathering food for making knights that, again, immediately have extra health with no upgrade-time required. This means the Franks have hands down the strongest knights in early-Castle Age. In Imperial Age, their Paladins are (I’m pretty sure) THE strongest paladins in the game, and they produce *_40%_* faster!
Fun fact, Franks are currently the strongest 1v1 civilization in the game at very high level on Voobly while Berbers perform poorly. I think overall "discounts" prices are overrated in your analysis. It doesn't quite play a big part in late game when you have your eco rolling. I would argue, for example, that Persians and Burmese have stronger late game cavalry than the Berbers. It also depends whether you factor team games in the mix, in early imp, Huns are a powerhouse, and the Franks chivalry tech is incredibly useful to get fast access to cavalier and paladin.
Yeah once resources are flowing in mid to late game then discount impact become much less crucial. Bebers have no paladins and paladins are still strong tanks (which just need some support as a part of strategy element of the game)
They have stronger knight line and their cheap castle is broken. They’re a stronger civ due to having better infantry but Berbers have better stable imo
Yes but Frankish Paladins lost their glory like Frankish Kingdom lost its territories quick. There re also Slavs, Byzantines(my fav). Franks don't get the bloodlines. Saracens are also an elite camel civilization...
Berbers can still be a good cavalry civilization without being a good civilization overall. I think their discount makes them a good contender for top five even without Paladins, though of course Franks are better.
i'm seeing a pattern of qantity over quality : Best archers = Mayans (archer line discount), best infantry = Goths (infantry discount), best cavalry = Berbers (cavalry discount)
Goths won best infantry because the discount dovetails really well with the insane build speed increase. If they were just super cheap and not anything special, or trained fast but fully priced, then the Huscarl flood wouldn’t really be that special.
@@chekovsgunman the other aspect is goths have huskarls, which flipping the fact where infantry generally easy to counter by their normal counter and defenses, huskarls is a special exception.
I mean, he'll probably wait for balance to stabilize a bit more. The way things currently are means that with one patch one of the newer Civs could go from top tier to total trash, which would then lead to the comments going "hey can you update this for the latest patch" much like how we're pestering him to update lists and such for DE.
Things haven't changed that much. All of these top 5 are still very good cavalry civilisations. However interms of top civilisations according to top players there are: Persians, Aztecs & Chineese. These are generally strong because of their economy bonus rather than military. If you want a strong economy and a strong cavalry then Persians are a very good option at the moment. However as a new player if you find yourself playing very long games that go until late imperial then most people would recommend the Byzantines. They have one of the hardest to counter units in the cataphract, very strong defences & cheaper gold free units.
I’m a huge fan of Lithuanian scout rushes. Extra 150 food means 3 more villagers right off the bat, which translates to 2 more on food 1 more on gold for blacksmith upgrades.
I have to say, I just went back and saw some of your older videos again and man your comfort/enthusiasm really has sky rocketed since. Your personality has come out into your content so much and it really feels empty without it. How do you get yourself in the video making mood? I've been interested in being a content creator but I'm not the most comfortable behind a mic.
History is yet to produce a Malian knight, especially when there is no record of domestication of horse in sub-Sahara. Age of Empires 2 is yet to produce an Indian knight, funny when you find most of India's historic generals were expert equestrian.
I completely disagree with the Berbers being #1 cavalry civilization just because of their discount. Sure it makes their cavalry very cost effective but cost effectiveness isn't everything. There's also population efficiency, which you touched on a tiny bit with Persia and their War Elephants but I feel needs more attention. There's also their ability to perform their role as well as resist anti cavalry units. For example I value the Persian's +2 damage vs archer bonus very highly because 1 of the main roles of cavalry units is to hunt down archers and this bonus makes them more effective at 1 of their main roles than any other civilization's cavalry. Likewise I highly value the Cataphract as a unit because it is resistant to most if not all of the standard cavalry counters, though I agree it still doesn't make Byzantium a top tier cavalry civ as you want the cavalry to be effective in their role and the Cataphract simply isn't as good as even Byzantine Paladins(which as you said are terrible) for hunting down archers for example or rushing down town centers. With the above in mind, I actually think Persia should be #1. The main thing is that they have literally everything, and fully upgraded at that along with War Elephants. Need to hunt down archers? You have the 2nd best Paladins(behind the Franks) and with an archer bonus to boot. Need to mow down masses of non pike infantry? War Elephants will do the trick and your Paladins will still do wonders. Need to win a cavalry war? You have very respectable heavy camels. Again not as good as specialized camel civilizations but than you have all the other cavalry options as well. Need to fight a lot of monks from say Aztecs, Byzantines, etc? A horde of Hussars would do the trick. The Magyars lack the camels flexibility as well as the elephants, and while their elite Huszar is certainly nice it doesn't really add flexibility, just raw power for the weakest type of cavalry(the trash line). Still amazing mind you but I can't see it being better than having the Persian's flexibility. The Magyars should still be #2, with the Berbers down to #3 Imho.
Berbers are amazing with light Calvary and I made a scenario with 500 genitours vs 500 war elephants and won only using hit and run . Not only that I used ungapraded genitours and the Persians had elite war elephants . I also tried it with multiplayer and still won .
I agree with the Persians being number 1 for cav (that being said, I am bad, so take this with a grain of salt). Persian massed elephants are borderline unstoppable, and are stupid simple to use. Generally, you don't need much support, just more elephants. If you don't have time, just patrol them in and they'll kill almost everything. If you do have time, tell them to attack buildings that you want to die, and the building dies, along with every melee unit that tries to stop them. From an eco/production standpoint, they take an insane amount of food, but personally, I don't find this nearly as taxing to maintain compared to more gold-hungry compositions. Finally, since they are so efficient per pop, and take so much time to kill, you don't need a lot of castles to maintain spam-level production. However, even if you can't get to this, you have nearly the best of everything else. Knight bonuses, Paladin, Heavy Camel and Hussar.
@@meivenheaven last time I played online, I crushed a Berber guy with Higher elo rating, who had castle dropped in my base (Arabia) with my Burmese elephants, whom I consider the 2nd strongest trainable elephants in the game.
What about the Spanish? I believe that they should have gotten an honorable mention, especially for the multiplayer games. Their constant supply of gold allow them to still dish out Paladins when everybody is stuck with trash units. Not to mention their no-gold blacksmith upgrades.
Well it was pretty satisfying getting my first win against hard AI with Berbers. Funnily enough the computer was going for a knight rush as well, but that extra 15% reduction in cost ended up making all the difference.
I would like you to add to your top 5, not only the best cavalry but the combos of civilizations for cavalry. It would be a top 5 of the best combination among cavalry civilizations.
I'm truly disappointed ; I fully expected the following top 5 : #1 : Saracens, because they got the 2nd most impressive team bonus of the game, and because they're always the best civilization for SotL.#2 : Incas, because they got awesome cavalry and the most impressive team bonus.#3-4 : Aztecs and Mayans, because of their awesome cavalry.#5 : Vikings, because they got cavalry nearly as awesome as the Mesoamerican civilizations. And they shout "TIL BARDAGA !!!" !
Seems the irony wasn't conveyed clearly enough. The Malays, even if lacking bloodlines, the Hussard and Paladin upgrades, and having only the first cavalry armor tech, is still a pretty decent cavalry civilization since it can flood the map with Battle Elephants with that insane 30% discount.
The next troll pick would be britons, who also have a crappy cavalry tech tree. Saracens shouldn't be on that troll list, since they actually have good cavalry outside of their knight line, and are a very good counter-cavalry civ because of their excellent camel units.
Hello Spirit, thanks for your AOE2 videos it help me a lot in playing this game, and if i may suggest Turk civ perhaps could be added in your honorable mentions since they have a complete cavalry upgrade in their blacksmith surprisingly. I know it's not a cavalry civ but i think it worth to be considered. Anyway keep up the good work and i can't wait for your next video.
I'm a simple man, i see the alert of spirit's new video and I just click it as fast as possible. Thanks Spirit!!! And please, try to post videos faster next time, i really love your job!!!
I definitely agree with your list. I appreciate the honorable mention to the Byzantines when judges as a cavalry civ. Of course, more systemically they're weird as hell, because the Cataphract forces a brute force counter, and most brute force counters have a hard counter from a trash unit, which the Byzantines do very well. Most brute force counters are, as it so happens, cavalry (and the other brute force counters (ie. Teutonic Knights) are countered by the cataphracts), which means discounted halberdiers.
In your Magyars civ overview you gave them an A+ for cavalry while you only gave the Berbers an A on account of them lacking the Paladin. If you had a chance to revise the grades would you switch them? I think both are top tier but I agree with you that the Berbers inch out the Magyars with their stable discount.
Hi Spirit, new subscriber here-I love your videos! You mentioned Lanchester's square law in this one; have you looked into some of the fascinating math that follows from the differential equations behind Lanchester's laws, including the Pythagorean Theorem of RTS's? In particular, as you may already know, if an army of size y fights a smaller army of size x, and both armies are composed of the same units, at the end of the fight the superior army will have sqrt(y^2 - x^2) surviving soldiers, assuming the armies are large and all involved soldiers are active in the fight at all times-hence why people call it the Pythagorean theorem. It's one of the coolest bits of RTS-related math I've learned, and you can see it play out in the scenario editor. I'm just letting you know because it seems like the sort of thing you might find interesting. Thank you for all the great work you do! Your videos have gotten me back into the game.
Is it time to do a Version 2 of this video? Things have changed, like Teuton armor, introduction of Lithuanians and Cumans. Some variables mixed. I even think that from the existing choices, that Magyars and Berbers could share place 1. Opinions? Ideas?
I just want to thank you for putting timestamps. I am _so_ irritated by people's "Top 5" list that have no timestamps. It's most irritating when you disagree with the video uploader, but you think maybe he has a point on the other ones on the list so you'd like to skip around, except you have to watch the whole video, or in my case I just don't bother watching any further if I disagree and can't skip, it's not worth it.
Actually, Camels didn't take extra bonus damage from structures back in Age of Kings. They weren't in the Ship armour class then, they were in the same Cavalry armour class as Knights and Scouts.
@@dontspikemydrink9382 No, I am almost certain they were not. Camels were in the same class as other cavalry. So Camels dealt bonus damage against each other.
I thought this was gonna be another top 5 video that completely ignores the Berbers, so first place was very unexpected, glad they have finally gotten the credit they deserve!
big fan of your videos, especially the comparisons! I really like the meso civs and every time I get to post-imp eagles I think to myself that Spirit should do a comparison between three eagle special techs... whats your take on it?
Lanchester square law is for shooting armies (everyone can aim at every enemy). Melee armies (each has one soldier fighting one enemy) follow Lanchester linear law. This probably explains why archer civs have higher exchange ratio and why Berbers isn't as good as you'd expect in multiplayer data.
Franks DEFINITELY deserved a higher spot, since camels really are not that big a threat to Frankish knights. The extra health helps a lot and monks can be used to support by threatening to convert enemy camels.
I think the teutons deserve an honorable mention ( _definitely_ not top 5 tho ). their eco bonus helps their scout rush alot, they get bloodlines for their scout rush and _nearly_ FU paladins (it's my contention that husbandry is the least important cav tech). Plus their team bonus pretty much eliminates, one of the possible counters for your knight-line. and teutons have a plethora of options to punish massed halbs/camels.
You'd better call it top 5 viable cavalry archer civ. Since there aren't a lot of civ for whom cavalry archers are useful, since they're so pricy and only good in numbers. Unless you only use them to harass enemy villagers and infantry.
I think they should have added Bloodlines to the Franks just because, that or give their Paladins trample damage like the Cataphract. Something to make them Super Cavalry.
I've always thought as Calvary as weak AF because they are so easily crushed cost-wise by piketech but maybe that's because I only play black forest where it's hard to fight outside of a choke. Calvary archers and archers too. They seem to get crushed by onagers.
Hey, I'm early for once! Not a single battle elephant civ in the list? That's surprising, but I can't say any of the others don't deserve to be there, so... Well done, Spirit!
In Middle Age Europe heavy cavalry was the best army composition you could have. It was expensive, but fast and powerful. Of course, you can't properly siege a castle with JUST heavy cavalry, but they could ride through almost anything. So I feel bad that Franks are just a good cavalry civ even though they originally were the strongest cavalry in the game. It's almost like in AOE2 cavalry is no longer trendy.
What about Saracens? I think they deserve to be in the honorable mention. All blacksmith and stable upgrades, full hussars, camels with +30 hp and ofc Memelukes(i assume they cavalry).
Hey Spirit, love the content dude, extremely well put together, informative and entertaining! I was wondering if you would consider doing some online battles with you playing, just i reckon it'd make for some great videos
I think Lithuanians should be somewhere on the list. They start with 150 extra food which makes for a good scout rush, their winged hussars are arguably the best trash cavalry, to the point that they can go up against elite Magyar huszars and win and elite Leitis’ are faster and do more damage than Frank Paladins, along with ignoring armor and on top of that, they get +1 attack for every relic they have up to 4. Admittedly, you need a castle to create them, but I still think they should’ve at least been mentioned. I’ve had a lot of success with them.
Hey Spirit, first of all, great video, enjoyed it a lot! I was wondering if you would like to do a meta gameplay series? I would say mainly arabia and 1v1 as that is the most comp setting atm. Would love to hear your opinion on this!
Nice video! No honorable mention for Burmese nor Slavs? I guess Saracen camels need a small buff to be more attractive and so that they even the Indian or Berber camels, like e.g. +5% HP castle age, +10% imperial?
I always found the Slav UU awkward to use, you want to upgrade your infantry for that sweet Druzhina AOE on trash fights and the siege is so strong and has a discount making it perfect for infantry support, it just feels weird to redirect so much of your resources towards cavalry upgrades when the only good cavalry you get is the UU; a calvary unit that has a lot of melee armor which isnt really something you need as your infantry can deal with anything that fights at melee range and is too slow to deal with archers or siege properly and doesnt perform very well at raiding.
Well that is true, although the Slavs also have fully upgraded Hussars and cavaliers (lacking paladin though), and these are very useful too, to counter archers, monks, siege, etc. But I agree concerning Boyars: I do not understand what their place should be in the Slav army neither. A light cavalry for instance would suit a lot better in my opinion.
I think the boyars represent the nobility who can afford armor and horses. The slavs are supposed to be a heavy-everything civs with siege,champions and boyars who are all expensive but powerful units.
@@saccaron So here is where the Boyar fits in. The Boyar is a brute force unit to counter things like Cataphracts and Jaguar Warriors that would otherwise grind squishier units and infantry units into dust.
Honestly I love the huns. Even more I love the tarkan. Especially against archer civs. A tarkan/light cav combo with skirms backing them up really hurt archers. The speed of the calvary forces engagements, and of course the skirmishers following behind to shred them. They can either keep retreating, which is fine bc my cav won't take much damage, but the archers will, or they can stay and fight and get hit with the cav and the skirms together. I've noticed typically they retreat until they are under a castle, and at that point I peel off my tarkans to knock it down. Those castles melt with 40 tarkans on them. Meanwhile their expensive bowmen are getting shredded by my skirms and light cav. And if they pull out siege, my tarkans are fast enough to go around their infantry and smack some siege around. It's also nice not worrying about protecting trebs that much. Trebs are just there to knock down walls. And if they do pull out spearmen, again I have skirmishers so I'll just send my cav where they pikemen aren't and let the skirmishers do the work there. I'm just a mid level player though so take my experience with a grain of salt. I already liked the huns, but last night when I beat the britons and the chinese in what was basically a 2v1 because I had a useless team mate, I absolutely fell in love.
The best cavalry civ is the Britons because the enemy always predicts archers so go for skirmishers. So if you go for a fast castle into knights you can just kill their army. Once they start building spearmen start building your archers so both counters are destroyed. The eco bonus with the sheep also helps the fast castle time.
Also Id have Burmese in the 4-5 range personally. Elite Battle Eles, Arambai, and Cavaliers all with full upgrades. Plus a couple cavalry unique techs.
Im a little bit surprised the Saracens arent even a Honorable Mention. They get full tec tree, all Upgrades, Camels, + the Mammeluke agains pikes and raiding. +the market bonus helping early and lategame.
Hi! I just stopped by to ask if you'd be willing to do an Easter-Egg sort of voiceline in a fan project to voice one of the The Forgotten campaigns. Nothing much, just three lines or something
Looking at other civs that could have been implemented: Portuguese with their gold cost discount have a great knight rush in Teamgames, and when slung can do big damage in early imp with cavaliers. Slavs with Boyars especially looking at their insane farm eco.
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Loved that little clip of the Paladin riding off into the sunset, forsaken by the world that once rested on his shoulders. It needs to become its own little movie just like Supremacy.
That would make a good starting point for the SoTLCU...
That actually made me really sad. I hope the Paladin regains its former glory.
Reminds me of Don Quixote. A Knight in a world that doesn't need one
2:32 he actually did that joke lmao
I know right? So subtle
Frankly i didn't see that coming
What was it? LOSS? I don't understand :'(
Ilichburger to be frank, the pun just went over your head
OOOOhhhh that one, I was focusing on the farm building a few seconds before that, it was making me incredibly anxious
"Not putting the Spanish in the honorable mentions"
*Gonzalo, bring the pike*
The conquistador isn't happy
SANTIAGO!
@@marcoswillianl And he even gave it an A grade or it's complete Hussar, Paladin and Conquistador (which kinda counts)
@@Hamanuna I think Conquistador is more like a Cavalry Archer.
@@marcoswillianl They pretty much are as they use hand cannons and are upgraded with archery armor though the game itself doesn't classify them as cavalry archers as skirmishers don't get a bonus when attacking them.
I missed you man! Great video :D
That solitary frankish knight was so sad, is there a place for him in this world?
In the trash
lol
Convert him into the Berbers
Yes. In T90’s Hidden cup tournament, there were multiple Frank vs Indian matches and the Franks won decisively every time. The berry bonus + free farm techs + free extra health makes for a silky-smooth transition from feudal age to making buffed knights immediately after hitting Castle age.
The Frank players also would support their knights with monks, keeping the camels from getting too close, allowing them whittle down the camel numbers and pick engagements.
Become a xolotl warrior
And now siege and then top overall. Great video as well.
may be top 5 eco civs (mayans and aztecs on top 3)
I think siege is pretty easy, my top 5 would be:
1. Celts
2. Ethiopians
3. Mongols
4. Coreans
5. Slavs
i think Khmer are very underrated in the siege department because in castle age the scorpions outrage mangoes and archers. (also Koreans has a K)
Bessem Fayçal Oh yeah I forgot that category.
Arnau Saborido Seems legit
Also, It's spelled Koreans (Call me a grammar Nazi if you want no offense will be taken)
You underestimate how amazing the Frank berry gather bonus + free farm techs + basically free bloodlines is. It lets them get to Feudal age with a good economy and immediately have upgraded farms which can then be used to make scouts (which have extra health) or progress toward Castle age where they immediately get another farm upgrade for gathering food for making knights that, again, immediately have extra health with no upgrade-time required. This means the Franks have hands down the strongest knights in early-Castle Age. In Imperial Age, their Paladins are (I’m pretty sure) THE strongest paladins in the game, and they produce *_40%_* faster!
Fun fact, Franks are currently the strongest 1v1 civilization in the game at very high level on Voobly while Berbers perform poorly. I think overall "discounts" prices are overrated in your analysis. It doesn't quite play a big part in late game when you have your eco rolling. I would argue, for example, that Persians and Burmese have stronger late game cavalry than the Berbers. It also depends whether you factor team games in the mix, in early imp, Huns are a powerhouse, and the Franks chivalry tech is incredibly useful to get fast access to cavalier and paladin.
Yeah once resources are flowing in mid to late game then discount impact become much less crucial. Bebers have no paladins and paladins are still strong tanks (which just need some support as a part of strategy element of the game)
They have stronger knight line and their cheap castle is broken. They’re a stronger civ due to having better infantry but Berbers have better stable imo
Yes but Frankish Paladins lost their glory like Frankish Kingdom lost its territories quick. There re also Slavs, Byzantines(my fav). Franks don't get the bloodlines. Saracens are also an elite camel civilization...
I like Franks more :')
Berbers can still be a good cavalry civilization without being a good civilization overall. I think their discount makes them a good contender for top five even without Paladins, though of course Franks are better.
i'm seeing a pattern of qantity over quality : Best archers = Mayans (archer line discount), best infantry = Goths (infantry discount), best cavalry = Berbers (cavalry discount)
Goths won best infantry because the discount dovetails really well with the insane build speed increase. If they were just super cheap and not anything special, or trained fast but fully priced, then the Huscarl flood wouldn’t really be that special.
Quantity is quality of its own - Joseph Stalin.
@@chekovsgunman the other aspect is goths have huskarls, which flipping the fact where infantry generally easy to counter by their normal counter and defenses, huskarls is a special exception.
Hey Spirit of the Law, could you remake that top 5 cavalry civilisations including AoE2DE changes? I am a new player and would appreciate it!
I mean, he'll probably wait for balance to stabilize a bit more. The way things currently are means that with one patch one of the newer Civs could go from top tier to total trash, which would then lead to the comments going "hey can you update this for the latest patch" much like how we're pestering him to update lists and such for DE.
Things haven't changed that much. All of these top 5 are still very good cavalry civilisations. However interms of top civilisations according to top players there are: Persians, Aztecs & Chineese.
These are generally strong because of their economy bonus rather than military. If you want a strong economy and a strong cavalry then Persians are a very good option at the moment.
However as a new player if you find yourself playing very long games that go until late imperial then most people would recommend the Byzantines. They have one of the hardest to counter units in the cataphract, very strong defences & cheaper gold free units.
Magyars is still the best cuz they have best cav archers in the game and good paladins
The balance is stabilized now, can you please remake this? I am very reliant on cavalry and siege in my games and would love a new video on that.
With Burgundians and Poles in the game, it's definitely time to remake this now.
I’m a huge fan of Lithuanian scout rushes. Extra 150 food means 3 more villagers right off the bat, which translates to 2 more on food 1 more on gold for blacksmith upgrades.
Funny to think that lithuanians didn't exist at the time of this video.
I have to say, I just went back and saw some of your older videos again and man your comfort/enthusiasm really has sky rocketed since. Your personality has come out into your content so much and it really feels empty without it. How do you get yourself in the video making mood? I've been interested in being a content creator but I'm not the most comfortable behind a mic.
History is yet to produce a Malian knight, especially when there is no record of domestication of horse in sub-Sahara. Age of Empires 2 is yet to produce an Indian knight, funny when you find most of India's historic generals were expert equestrian.
I know which one is going to be on top:
Aztechs
Where is Malay?? Which has the Best Cav Amor
Good point. Think of all the resources saved from only one armor upgrade!
Yeah ！ Such a overpower economic boost for Malay cavarly
Are you joking?
We all know that the Incas are #1
Aztecs have OP monks that can easily convert cavalry, so they should get an honorable mention!
>SotL Uploads a vid
>I drop everything, make some popcorn, and fill up a big cup of soda.
>I watch the 8 minute video.
... but you are not the senate.
I feel the same way about SOTL videos.
Then you watch it 5 times in a row
i am THE SENATE
Shouldent you be begging Critical?
I completely disagree with the Berbers being #1 cavalry civilization just because of their discount. Sure it makes their cavalry very cost effective but cost effectiveness isn't everything. There's also population efficiency, which you touched on a tiny bit with Persia and their War Elephants but I feel needs more attention. There's also their ability to perform their role as well as resist anti cavalry units. For example I value the Persian's +2 damage vs archer bonus very highly because 1 of the main roles of cavalry units is to hunt down archers and this bonus makes them more effective at 1 of their main roles than any other civilization's cavalry. Likewise I highly value the Cataphract as a unit because it is resistant to most if not all of the standard cavalry counters, though I agree it still doesn't make Byzantium a top tier cavalry civ as you want the cavalry to be effective in their role and the Cataphract simply isn't as good as even Byzantine Paladins(which as you said are terrible) for hunting down archers for example or rushing down town centers.
With the above in mind, I actually think Persia should be #1. The main thing is that they have literally everything, and fully upgraded at that along with War Elephants. Need to hunt down archers? You have the 2nd best Paladins(behind the Franks) and with an archer bonus to boot. Need to mow down masses of non pike infantry? War Elephants will do the trick and your Paladins will still do wonders. Need to win a cavalry war? You have very respectable heavy camels. Again not as good as specialized camel civilizations but than you have all the other cavalry options as well. Need to fight a lot of monks from say Aztecs, Byzantines, etc? A horde of Hussars would do the trick. The Magyars lack the camels flexibility as well as the elephants, and while their elite Huszar is certainly nice it doesn't really add flexibility, just raw power for the weakest type of cavalry(the trash line). Still amazing mind you but I can't see it being better than having the Persian's flexibility. The Magyars should still be #2, with the Berbers down to #3 Imho.
Berbers are amazing with light Calvary and I made a scenario with 500 genitours vs 500 war elephants and won only using hit and run . Not only that I used ungapraded genitours and the Persians had elite war elephants . I also tried it with multiplayer and still won .
That is a longbcomment🤤
I agree with the Persians being number 1 for cav (that being said, I am bad, so take this with a grain of salt). Persian massed elephants are borderline unstoppable, and are stupid simple to use. Generally, you don't need much support, just more elephants. If you don't have time, just patrol them in and they'll kill almost everything. If you do have time, tell them to attack buildings that you want to die, and the building dies, along with every melee unit that tries to stop them. From an eco/production standpoint, they take an insane amount of food, but personally, I don't find this nearly as taxing to maintain compared to more gold-hungry compositions. Finally, since they are so efficient per pop, and take so much time to kill, you don't need a lot of castles to maintain spam-level production. However, even if you can't get to this, you have nearly the best of everything else. Knight bonuses, Paladin, Heavy Camel and Hussar.
Persian most powerful in Imp but Berbers have all the tools they need to crush Persians in Castle Age (in open map).
@@meivenheaven last time I played online, I crushed a Berber guy with Higher elo rating, who had castle dropped in my base (Arabia) with my Burmese elephants, whom I consider the 2nd strongest trainable elephants in the game.
Last time I was this early, my scout had yet to move!
What about the Spanish? I believe that they should have gotten an honorable mention, especially for the multiplayer games. Their constant supply of gold allow them to still dish out Paladins when everybody is stuck with trash units. Not to mention their no-gold blacksmith upgrades.
Their knight rush is above average, though, with the gold saved from the blacksmith techs, and they synergizes well with conquistadors.
Natural ally of Turks in game perspective.
I'm not sure if you have already done this, but if you haven't, could you please do a top naval civ list?
Most helpful and funniest AoE2 TH-camr
I waited this video for so long :3
you forgot the guitar intro 💔
That's only for civ overviews.
Guitar intro sucks
@@clearfact2588 oh how you dare
@@clearfact2588 i wish you get sniped by a Japanese treb
I haven't played this game in months, I just love your vids
What about a top 5 trash units civs?
Turks #1 for sure.
#1 : Byzantines with Berber allies
Turks, Turks, Turks, Turks, and Turks honorable mentions: Turks
NJG 319 may i ask why?
But Turks still has the best trash version of cav Archer 11
that 'the once mighty paladin' montage, so good
"Dude ur so cool"
"I know"
11
Well it was pretty satisfying getting my first win against hard AI with Berbers. Funnily enough the computer was going for a knight rush as well, but that extra 15% reduction in cost ended up making all the difference.
I would like you to add to your top 5, not only the best cavalry but the combos of civilizations for cavalry. It would be a top 5 of the best combination among cavalry civilizations.
Make a video about the top five defensive civs, please :)
the best channel I've ever seen. I like your chilling voice so much. Thanks for these videos.
Yes! He Berbers are my fav civ! They fit in so many scenarios!
Woah!! Can't believe you pick my 2 fav cav civ at the top Go Berbers and Magyars!!!
I'm truly disappointed ; I fully expected the following top 5 :
#1 : Saracens, because they got the 2nd most impressive team bonus of the game, and because they're always the best civilization for SotL.#2 : Incas, because they got awesome cavalry and the most impressive team bonus.#3-4 : Aztecs and Mayans, because of their awesome cavalry.#5 : Vikings, because they got cavalry nearly as awesome as the Mesoamerican civilizations. And they shout "TIL BARDAGA !!!" !
Spirit of the n00b Malay in the honorable mention
Seems the irony wasn't conveyed clearly enough. The Malays, even if lacking bloodlines, the Hussard and Paladin upgrades, and having only the first cavalry armor tech, is still a pretty decent cavalry civilization since it can flood the map with Battle Elephants with that insane 30% discount.
The Til bardaga worth picking them in land maps
The next troll pick would be britons, who also have a crappy cavalry tech tree. Saracens shouldn't be on that troll list, since they actually have good cavalry outside of their knight line, and are a very good counter-cavalry civ because of their excellent camel units.
I know ; it's just to be worthy of Spirit of the Troll.
Hello Spirit, thanks for your AOE2 videos it help me a lot in playing this game, and if i may suggest Turk civ perhaps could be added in your honorable mentions since they have a complete cavalry upgrade in their blacksmith surprisingly. I know it's not a cavalry civ but i think it worth to be considered. Anyway keep up the good work and i can't wait for your next video.
The Paladin running away montage alone merits my like. Same with Elephant Facts.
I'm a simple man, i see the alert of spirit's new video and I just click it as fast as possible.
Thanks Spirit!!! And please, try to post videos faster next time, i really love your job!!!
I definitely agree with your list. I appreciate the honorable mention to the Byzantines when judges as a cavalry civ.
Of course, more systemically they're weird as hell, because the Cataphract forces a brute force counter, and most brute force counters have a hard counter from a trash unit, which the Byzantines do very well.
Most brute force counters are, as it so happens, cavalry (and the other brute force counters (ie. Teutonic Knights) are countered by the cataphracts), which means discounted halberdiers.
Keep these up! Always quality videos man, love 'em.
I love the music that Spirit uses for the #1 Civ in this series
In your Magyars civ overview you gave them an A+ for cavalry while you only gave the Berbers an A on account of them lacking the Paladin. If you had a chance to revise the grades would you switch them? I think both are top tier but I agree with you that the Berbers inch out the Magyars with their stable discount.
Yay! More content from Spirit of the Law!
Hi Spirit, new subscriber here-I love your videos! You mentioned Lanchester's square law in this one; have you looked into some of the fascinating math that follows from the differential equations behind Lanchester's laws, including the Pythagorean Theorem of RTS's? In particular, as you may already know, if an army of size y fights a smaller army of size x, and both armies are composed of the same units, at the end of the fight the superior army will have sqrt(y^2 - x^2) surviving soldiers, assuming the armies are large and all involved soldiers are active in the fight at all times-hence why people call it the Pythagorean theorem.
It's one of the coolest bits of RTS-related math I've learned, and you can see it play out in the scenario editor. I'm just letting you know because it seems like the sort of thing you might find interesting.
Thank you for all the great work you do! Your videos have gotten me back into the game.
awesome video! i was desperately waiting for new content!
Always so happy when you upload a new video
Is it time to do a Version 2 of this video? Things have changed, like Teuton armor, introduction of Lithuanians and Cumans. Some variables mixed. I even think that from the existing choices, that Magyars and Berbers could share place 1. Opinions? Ideas?
I just want to thank you for putting timestamps. I am _so_ irritated by people's "Top 5" list that have no timestamps. It's most irritating when you disagree with the video uploader, but you think maybe he has a point on the other ones on the list so you'd like to skip around, except you have to watch the whole video, or in my case I just don't bother watching any further if I disagree and can't skip, it's not worth it.
Spirit: "at the number 4 spot is the franks"
Aoestates.io: "hold my states"
always a good day when spirit makes a vid :D
Actually, Camels didn't take extra bonus damage from structures back in Age of Kings. They weren't in the Ship armour class then, they were in the same Cavalry armour class as Knights and Scouts.
they were
@@dontspikemydrink9382 No, I am almost certain they were not. Camels were in the same class as other cavalry. So Camels dealt bonus damage against each other.
I thought this was gonna be another top 5 video that completely ignores the Berbers, so first place was very unexpected, glad they have finally gotten the credit they deserve!
You post a video for every four weeks now I now I don't need to wait for notification
big fan of your videos, especially the comparisons!
I really like the meso civs and every time I get to post-imp eagles I think to myself that Spirit should do a comparison between three eagle special techs... whats your take on it?
Excellent Choice!
omg Spirit. that part starting at 2:57 is just so brilliantly funny. Thanks for that laugh.
Lanchester square law is for shooting armies (everyone can aim at every enemy). Melee armies (each has one soldier fighting one enemy) follow Lanchester linear law. This probably explains why archer civs have higher exchange ratio and why Berbers isn't as good as you'd expect in multiplayer data.
Nice video, could watch your stuff all day
Franks DEFINITELY deserved a higher spot, since camels really are not that big a threat to Frankish knights. The extra health helps a lot and monks can be used to support by threatening to convert enemy camels.
love that elephant fact segment is still updating!
Top 10 Meta Civs on Arabia/.. 1v1,3v3 with strategies would be nice
Hey guys Spirit Of The Law here. I missed this mention. long time no see!!
That's weird only 2.6k views. What's going on?
*Checks Publish date
*Holy Cow I'm Early!*
I think the teutons deserve an honorable mention ( _definitely_ not top 5 tho ). their eco bonus helps their scout rush alot, they get bloodlines for their scout rush and _nearly_ FU paladins (it's my contention that husbandry is the least important cav tech). Plus their team bonus pretty much eliminates, one of the possible counters for your knight-line. and teutons have a plethora of options to punish massed halbs/camels.
Top 5 cavalry archer civs pls
You'd better call it top 5 viable cavalry archer civ. Since there aren't a lot of civ for whom cavalry archers are useful, since they're so pricy and only good in numbers. Unless you only use them to harass enemy villagers and infantry.
Juan Cruz Magyars,Turks,Berbers,Huns,Mongols(if we include unique units aswell)
Saracens, Turks, Magyars, , Huns, Mongols!
1. Huns
2. Berbers
3. Mongols
4. Magyars
5. Turks
Honourable Mentions - Burmese, Spanish, Saracens, Koreans, Indians.
No Mongols?!? Blasphemy!
Would love a "best siege civilizations" from your channel, your videos are great!
Is there a paladin Shelter we can donate to?
The amount of bad puns is too damn high!
I love it!
Left out Slavs in honourable mention? :(
Budi ur my slav
Slavs have good cavalry but not great cavalry
he doesnt embrace the gopnik power
@@thomasschulz8477 we should forgive him this time comrade
I think they should have added Bloodlines to the Franks just because, that or give their Paladins trample damage like the Cataphract. Something to make them Super Cavalry.
I've always thought as Calvary as weak AF because they are so easily crushed cost-wise by piketech but maybe that's because I only play black forest where it's hard to fight outside of a choke.
Calvary archers and archers too. They seem to get crushed by onagers.
Let me guess, Burmese the next overview?
Hey, I'm early for once!
Not a single battle elephant civ in the list? That's surprising, but I can't say any of the others don't deserve to be there, so...
Well done, Spirit!
Never miss a video
Is it time for a redo of many of these top 5s?
We've had so many new civs and patches/updates
GREAT LIST
In Middle Age Europe heavy cavalry was the best army composition you could have. It was expensive, but fast and powerful. Of course, you can't properly siege a castle with JUST heavy cavalry, but they could ride through almost anything. So I feel bad that Franks are just a good cavalry civ even though they originally were the strongest cavalry in the game. It's almost like in AOE2 cavalry is no longer trendy.
Slavs needed a mention. Knight rushes always have a food crunch at the start. Farming bonus would put their knights above most for me
What about Saracens? I think they deserve to be in the honorable mention. All blacksmith and stable upgrades, full hussars, camels with +30 hp and ofc Memelukes(i assume they cavalry).
they have a very limited knight line, it's ok for a knight rush though but totally unupgreadeable in imperial age.
Hey Spirit, love the content dude, extremely well put together, informative and entertaining! I was wondering if you would consider doing some online battles with you playing, just i reckon it'd make for some great videos
I think Lithuanians should be somewhere on the list. They start with 150 extra food which makes for a good scout rush, their winged hussars are arguably the best trash cavalry, to the point that they can go up against elite Magyar huszars and win and elite Leitis’ are faster and do more damage than Frank Paladins, along with ignoring armor and on top of that, they get +1 attack for every relic they have up to 4. Admittedly, you need a castle to create them, but I still think they should’ve at least been mentioned. I’ve had a lot of success with them.
Hey Spirit, first of all, great video, enjoyed it a lot!
I was wondering if you would like to do a meta gameplay series?
I would say mainly arabia and 1v1 as that is the most comp setting atm.
Would love to hear your opinion on this!
Nice video!
No honorable mention for Burmese nor Slavs?
I guess Saracen camels need a small buff to be more attractive and so that they even the Indian or Berber camels, like e.g. +5% HP castle age, +10% imperial?
saccaron yes they need a castle age bonus.
I always found the Slav UU awkward to use, you want to upgrade your infantry for that sweet Druzhina AOE on trash fights and the siege is so strong and has a discount making it perfect for infantry support, it just feels weird to redirect so much of your resources towards cavalry upgrades when the only good cavalry you get is the UU; a calvary unit that has a lot of melee armor which isnt really something you need as your infantry can deal with anything that fights at melee range and is too slow to deal with archers or siege properly and doesnt perform very well at raiding.
Well that is true, although the Slavs also have fully upgraded Hussars and cavaliers (lacking paladin though), and these are very useful too, to counter archers, monks, siege, etc. But I agree concerning Boyars: I do not understand what their place should be in the Slav army neither. A light cavalry for instance would suit a lot better in my opinion.
I think the boyars represent the nobility who can afford armor and horses. The slavs are supposed to be a heavy-everything civs with siege,champions and boyars who are all expensive but powerful units.
@@saccaron So here is where the Boyar fits in. The Boyar is a brute force unit to counter things like Cataphracts and Jaguar Warriors that would otherwise grind squishier units and infantry units into dust.
Can you please do a video on cannon galleons and how to use them
The music in the end is great!
(y). Now we need Top 5 Naval civilization. Also top 5 Cav archer, gun powder, Siege and trash unit civilizations
also Top 5 early game civ , late game civ would be good :D
Another great video!
Paladins look so cool they deserve their own spinoff game
Please,top 5 monk cilvizations
Honestly I love the huns. Even more I love the tarkan. Especially against archer civs. A tarkan/light cav combo with skirms backing them up really hurt archers. The speed of the calvary forces engagements, and of course the skirmishers following behind to shred them. They can either keep retreating, which is fine bc my cav won't take much damage, but the archers will, or they can stay and fight and get hit with the cav and the skirms together. I've noticed typically they retreat until they are under a castle, and at that point I peel off my tarkans to knock it down. Those castles melt with 40 tarkans on them. Meanwhile their expensive bowmen are getting shredded by my skirms and light cav. And if they pull out siege, my tarkans are fast enough to go around their infantry and smack some siege around. It's also nice not worrying about protecting trebs that much. Trebs are just there to knock down walls. And if they do pull out spearmen, again I have skirmishers so I'll just send my cav where they pikemen aren't and let the skirmishers do the work there. I'm just a mid level player though so take my experience with a grain of salt. I already liked the huns, but last night when I beat the britons and the chinese in what was basically a 2v1 because I had a useless team mate, I absolutely fell in love.
Genitur (or like wiki says, jineto) was btw in the original AoC map editor, shooting arrows, but with a militia skin
The best cavalry civ is the Britons because the enemy always predicts archers so go for skirmishers. So if you go for a fast castle into knights you can just kill their army. Once they start building spearmen start building your archers so both counters are destroyed. The eco bonus with the sheep also helps the fast castle time.
You finally uploaded something :)
I think we all want more SoL videos please. Thanks.
"But to be Frank" made me groan
Also Id have Burmese in the 4-5 range personally. Elite Battle Eles, Arambai, and Cavaliers all with full upgrades. Plus a couple cavalry unique techs.
That moonwalking scout at the beginning might just be a one trick pony.
2:23 such painful farm placement x-x, but great vid!
Im a little bit surprised the Saracens arent even a Honorable Mention. They get full tec tree, all Upgrades, Camels, + the Mammeluke agains pikes and raiding. +the market bonus helping early and lategame.
Franks very OP for huns, with additional speed for stables huns can research paladins *twice* faster!
Hi!
I just stopped by to ask if you'd be willing to do an Easter-Egg sort of voiceline in a fan project to voice one of the The Forgotten campaigns. Nothing much, just three lines or something
Looking at other civs that could have been implemented:
Portuguese with their gold cost discount have a great knight rush in Teamgames, and when slung can do big damage in early imp with cavaliers.
Slavs with Boyars especially looking at their insane farm eco.