Are the Vedas Apauruṣeya? | Dr. Koenard Elst | क्या वेद अपौरुषेय हैं? |
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- About the Talk:
The Vedas are the oldest religious texts which are deemed to be the crown of Hinduism. The Vedas which are written in Vedic Sanskrit (the ancient language of Indo-Aryans) consist of several hymns in praise of Hindu God and Goddess. Many traditional thinkers believe that the hymns are of divine origin. But there is ample evidence in Vedas themselves and other historical texts that the perfect poetry created by humans was elevated to the status of divinity in due course of time says Dr. Koenard Elst.
About the Speaker:
Dr. Koenraad Elst is a Belgian Indologist with a Masters in Indology, Sinology and Philosophy followed by original fieldwork in BHU and Doctorate on Hindu nationalism. One of the few Westerners to actively defend Hinduism, he is known for his blunt and objective views. Author of thirty books, a foreign desk press editor, foreign policy assistant in the Belgian Senate and a visiting professor at two Indian universities.
Topics Covered:
0:00 Are the Vedas of Divine origin?
1:25 The Purva Mimansa school of thought
3:27 The Uttara Mimansa and Sankara philosophy
8:53 The difference between Dharma in scriptures and Din in Quran
12:00 Hymns from Vedas - relationship with the humanbeings with Superhuman powers
18:30 Vedas refer to Pre-Vedik age
23:30 The Vedas are not eternal
28:00 Vedas are historical
31:59 Composed in perfect poetry the verses were then memorised
36:00 Sulba sutra - The theorem that later came to be known as Pythagoras Theorem
39:47 The Vedas are deemed to be the crown of Hinduism
43:41 The Human poetry got elevated to Divine origin
48:25 Invention of tradition is common in societies
50:55 In Hindu History Rama and Krishna born as Humans were later divinised
54:50 The caste did not matter in ancient India
57:20 The caste factor came into prominence later
58:40 A revered thing can turn into deity with faith and respect - normal human tendency
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Coincidently, I was reading Sankhya Darshan a few days ago for this topic and found that Sankhya do talk about vedas(I will make a video on that providing reference),
Aham brahmasmi is 'brahmavat' not 'I am brahma.'
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This man has just a little knowledge in this field. Manusmriti, Ramayan, Mahabharat and all major scriptures said that Vedas are APAURUSHEYA.
One should read 'Rigvedadi Bhashya Bhumika' for this matter.
It doesn't matter Vedas are man made as any other religious scripture. I respect vedas it has many good things , spirituality, it is the bed rock of indian civilization but it is man made.
@@punyashloka4946 it's not, it was existing in the universe before mankind and was revealed to different sages after they became 100% holy.
@@JAKELEVANFIECHTERYou can believe in whatever bullshit you want to believe, I don't care.
@@punyashloka4946 I'm not "believing" it I know it! Amd it's written in the vedas itself moreover be respectful in your conversation especially when you are talking about a sacred scripture.
@@JAKELEVANFIECHTER Yeah Muslims also know that Quran is the word of God that doesn't make it true, so whatever 🙄. I don't think Vedas are absolutely divine it has man made contribution. But you can believe whatever you want I don't care.
Rigveda 10.71.3 tells Rishis got vision of Vedic richas and then they transferred this to the world . Also Kaushitaki Brahman 10.30 & Aitreya Brahman 3.9 reiterates that there was a vision of Vedic richas to the Rishis
मंत्र लिखो
क्योंकि वेद यह बातें नहीं बताते
The problem is that western people don't understand this concept! Apurushya in this reference is a state of mind...Everyone can agree that when you have an insight...you need to be in this 'Mind's Zone'! To be in this by Self discipline and by being in this Sattvic State of Mind! Nevertheless it is clearly a 'Human Endeavor'!
Comparing this to an Abrahmic discipline is an Oxymoron' Effort!
I will give you an example.. When you get a blessing from your Guru...You should not be looking for a thing...called Blessing!!!!
But thats not how orthodox hindus explain vedas, we hindus can understand this what Apuraushaya means but there are orthodox hindus who explains differently, blaming Koenraad is of no use.
@@punyashloka4946 And who exactly are those "orthodox" Hindus?
16:55 I would say the mantras are being “seen” through “pratibha”. Many fiction or poetry writers say that they don’t know where it comes from. Similarly people who create maths or see theorems also don’t know how it comes to them. There is no guaranteed method to teach. In this sense it is a divine. Maths genius Ramanujan used to say that the maths he did was revealed to him by a goddess. So when a Vedic poet may say he is (merely) a mantradrusta, he is talking about this mysterious phenomenon of creativity.
But in that sense, Vedic verses wouldn't be extraordinary or divine because by this definition, revealtion is not a unique phenomenon as a lot of people like poets and mathematicians as you say have revelations.
This topic need a debate to clear more misconceptions and biases
5:41 - sorry, but I really think he, the scholar, may have misheard you and talked about stuti rather that sruti. Stuti = glorify, sruti is related to shravana etc.
13:00 The Pre-Muhammadan Arabia, the Goddess 'AL-Lat' looks more like Goddess Swaraswati with a musical instrument, and 'AL-Uzza' and 'Manat' looks like Goddess Durga with Kartik and Ganesh in her both sides and in front a Lion as her Mount.
Dr. Elst has my most sincere respect for his scholarlyness. He is among the finest intellectuals whose wisdom is not coloured by any kind of bias.
First time I disagree with him. Vedas are indeed APOURUSHEYA. Everyone just compiled what existed already.
When you consider the complexity of Sanskrit with its grammer and vocal inclusions, and the condition of present day languages, we can say that Sanskrit is very advanced and beyond the typical uncultured languages, and represent Sruthi.
Sir, Vedas are mystery and we don't get anything by intellectually dissecting it,
👍🙏
25:50 the Iranian tribes you mentioned could have also left India. Equally likely. There doesn’t seem to be memory in Rigveda of seasons across from Hindukush. For example there is no Shishir in Rigveda, but there is Pravrush and Varsha.
I disagree with the last part of the video where he accused that Upper Caste had invented the caste system and called it Divine because of their some ulterior motives.
If you read Smritis, you'll clearly understand that the life of Brahmins were the toughest.. so what they'll get by introducing a system which gives that much duties to perform..
And not all the Mantras of Veda can be called Human creation because The Philosophy of Advaita Vedanta can not be created by human mind, it was realised by our Rishis and then they wrote that in the form of Mantras.. So the knowledge of Veda can be called "Apaurusheya".
The problem is that western people don't understand this concept! Everyone can agree that when you have an insight...you need to be in this 'Mind's Zone'! To be in this by Self discipline and by being in this Sattvic State of Mind! Nevertheless it is clearly a 'Human Endeavor'!
Comparing this to an Abrahmic discipline is an Oxymoron' Effort!
@@djsunshine1 The knowledge of Veda cannot be found by being in any kind of state of mind.
This can only be seen without mind and intellect, that's why it's not a Human creation.
And of course, it's human endeavor, Humans tried to acquire that knowledge, hence they got that knowledge.
But this doesn't mean that The knowledge is human creation, it's not.
Yeah. I noticed about this so called scholar. I think he pretends to be in favor of the Dharmic religions, but is in fact against us
@@djsunshine1 to the west, everything is contrivance, a corruption. Because they can only conceive a 'rigged" world.
@@jamesstevenson7725 He's entitled to his opinion. This doesn't make him any less Hindu. That's why it's called Hinduism, not Islam.
🙏💞💞
43:49 what probably contributed to this was the language changed considerably and people stopped understanding the Vedic poetry. It became a godly language.
Sir, it is enlightening to hear. You are a real Sanatani.
My shat shat naman to you.
This should have been a Quran topic rather than Vedic....Shastra and Sharia is not the same, plz do not insult
100%
When people does not have guru , govind, granth then this happened
Vedas are eternal ! Why ? Not because of super power it will be eternal
By PPL wisdom contribution it will be eternal and that PPL are divine who contribute the Vedas to be eternal upto end of mankind.
Koenrad ji is living legend...
Konraad Elst is ranting nonsense. Apourusheya means inspired Mantras, not written by human thinking.
You're choosing wrong person for this question. 🙏🙏🙏
He is just discussing his ideas on it. There isn't right or wrong here. Also, Elst even though may take certain stances, which don't align with tradition, he is still sympathetic of them.
Mr Bhagvat ...I believe that everyone who has Indian heritage or at least who is living in Hindustan are Hindus. It makes sense politically...as it is said...all politics is local!
Read Clash of Civilizations by Samuel Huntington
Humble Request Quran Has Been Written More Than 36 Times Research Persian High Priest Was Guru Of Mohd Initiated Groomed Taught Teachings of Life and said to spread them after his death but have no Ego That they are Mohd teachings or teachings will get Reversed Mohd disobeyed His Guru Rest Is History
🙄 Sharia is a law. Whereas Shastra is an analysis or a practical approach. Sharia impose ideology. Shastra explains the behavioral nature of existence.
Manava Dharma Shastra and Manu Smriti are not the same. Those are two different things. Does this guy really know what he speak about?😂😅
Very narrow understanding of the Vedic scriptures. I expected better logical interpretations of the relevance of Vedas.
Konraad Elst is ranting nonsense. Apourusheya means inspired Mantras, not written by human thinking.
This man is an excellent idiotic example of how one who is not born and raised in tradition parampara should never be given this knowledge. Who gave him the authority to speak on Vedas coming from west he is teaching us that Vedas are not Apaurusheya
what a farce.
As soon as it took the name of Sitaram Goyal I understood how knowldeble he is about our history and Vedas...
Totally baseless video
Yes based on a single name you decided all his stance and what all the paths he is going to take with this subject, either you are a genius or stupid idiot who does not much but likes to put people in a box, so its easy on you cognition instead of debating the ideas with good arguments