Excellent video. One key trend in this video that was not mentioned is the mental game and routine. Positive thinking and phrases after and before each shot. It is all about W.I.N ; What's Important Now. Focus on each frame. Keep up the great work and good luck this year
Good pin up / pin down comparison video guys. I usually only go pin down with my strong asymm solid and pearl to make it more usable on a house shot, but maybe a pin down layout on a medium ball has its benefits as well.
This SHOULD be basic knowledge, but unfortunately a LOT of people provide misinformation on this topic because they equate pin down to pin down with a low balance hole, which of course is now illegal. Pin DOWN layouts take more weight out of the TOP of the weight block, which DECREASES differential. Pin UP layouts take more weight out of the SIDE of the weight block, which INCREASES differential. More Diff = more Flare = more downlane motion.
Wider flare rings has a slower response to friction. It will slow down faster front to back with less length. Tighter flare rings will respond faster to friction.
@@VVenDiesel300 Perception of pin down vs reality. More flare, wider flare spacing, ball slows down sooner. Less flare, tighter spacing, ball takes longer to slow down and responds quicker. Its the physics of it and why balls are designed around it. Typically lower end equipment and equipment for drier lanes is designed with higher RGs and lower diffs to get the ball down lane and still have the energy to respond to friction. On two of the same ball with the same pin to pap and the only difference is pin up vs pin down the difference on the lanes is minimal if any for most bowlers. People that manufacture and design equipment know this, pros and people trying to make content and sell you equipment dont seem to th-cam.com/video/i6QUPduvEn4/w-d-xo.html
@@VVenDiesel300 less flare takes longer to slow down, more length. Tighter flare rings has a faster response to friction which is why most lower end equipment and drier lane equipment has lower diff cores. Retain energy longer vs burning it off faster. For most direct comparisons on the same ball and same pap only pin up vs pin down the difference is almost non existent. My reply with CTDs video showing the lack of difference in reaction was deleted. Ball designer information vs PBA player that doesn't understand the difference being evident
Loved that review and analysis! I almost always drill equipment pin up. I need to experiment with pin down layouts. What would you say the number of boards difference were between the two balls? Sounded like 4-5 boards and less angle with the pin down….
It was fascinating to hear the decision process on every single shot from a pro bowler. Unfortunately, google translate doesn't have a "bowler speak" => English setting and I only understood about half of what he was saying. One of his primary themes of finding the ball that handles misses better is a great takeaway that I WAS able to understand and will use. I tend to get enamored with the ball/angle/release combo that has the most explosive pin contact - which is fun when it happens but probably doesn't result in the highest scores.
Pin down on a symmetrical ball is terrible for me after the weight hole ban. It's basically just the cover doing all the work and I definitely don't have enough revs to make it work.
I haven't bought a new ball in many years. I am still throwing a 17year old Twisted Fury. It looks brand new because I have an Innovative revivor and a spinner. I still out bowl some that buy new ball every few months. I don't bowl tournaments anymore,so I haven't needed a new ball. I also haven't gone to the realxed grip for the same reason. I tired it and just didn't like it. The stretch grip doesn't both my hand at all.
Thank you Brad. That was a great video. You are such a cool guy i love what you and Kyle are doing. It always clntains a ton of information. Can you just du us a favor. When you move could you give board information, f. ex. I do 4/2 move playing over 17 @the arrows to break on 8. I think it could be helpful.
Nice video. I always tell people you can throw a perfect release, hit the pocket every time, right ball speed, rev rate, etc. But bottom line comes down to this. The pins will do what they want to do. But yes. Having a good ball. Not really the newest bad A__ ball. Good release, and all the other stuff. It helps. That's what makes bowling a challenging sport. Thanks. 🤓😎🤔🫣😝😛🙄😉🎳🎺
Wish I would have known this before I had my ball drilled. Getting back into bowling after 20 year hiatus (and now being 70). Decided to go NU Blue because they said its like the old blue. Talking with the pro he drilled standard finger tip with Pin up. My first session with it was a disaster. 65, then 149. 1 strike only in the proper pocket and not sure what I did. But it hooks hard left down lane. My ball speed avg 9 (8.8 to 9.2) .... Wish I would have had it pin down to keep it from breaking too fast. Not sure what the house oil pattern was or if there was a league before hand. Ive got a lot of work to do. I used to stand on the dot left of center and roll it over the 10 board. I tried that it went dead into the left gutter. Wound up over near the left gutter and strill trying for 10 or drifting out to 2-5 just to get it near the brooklyn side. Thanks for the tips Kyle,
I could be wrong, but I suspect the inconsistency in the release, speed, oil moving, accuracy is going to make more of a difference than the pin placement. So you are never going to be able to tell which one you prefer. You prefer throwing the ball good and then it will work, no matter what. Unless I'm wrong.
Plastic. Assuming you mean 7 to 9 MPH. If not a plastic ball a pearl cover, 6500 surface, pin up to get hook and roll as late as possible. You risk the ball rolling out and dumping all of its energy into friction. A really low speed like that I think you should delay ball reaction as long as possible. I’m not an expert but its my 2 cents based on my own experience and observations.
A house shot is what you would see in a casual/regular league and is pretty forgiving, a sport shot found in tournaments and such will usually have more oil and/or oil further down the lane and/or width so there is less room for error in your shot
Why dont you talk about the pin to pap vs just up or down? The pin down looks to be clearly shorter (pin to pap) then the pin up. When trying to compare apples to apples you want to make that variable the same as well. Shorter pin to pap vs longer pin to paps have different characteristics. Talk to Daniel P. and he can explain it more to you. Your inconsistency throwing the ball in the video is far greater then the differences in ball reaction of pin up or down, especially if you were to match the same pip to pap distances on both balls.
Cool video talk tech bowling ball summit ascent bowling ball with Ai technology in the bowling ball more strikes and spares hitting power at times too Brad and Kyle
pin up goes longer, pin down reads sooner and has more arch and will not jump left. phase 2 , have one drilled both ways and is the go too ball when all others seam to be hit and miss
Not sure what the big hype is about with this ball. It’s a 30 yr old coverstock that’s weak and the core is a remade marvel core. You’re paying premium for old technology!! R2S cover?!? Seriously storm?!! And you as a company were the leaders in price to hook value are now dead last…hammer took that away now. Sad to watch a company put so little into their bowling balls and expect so much money back. Breaks my heart to watch them do this.
Just would like to politely disagree with you here. Yes, you are paying premium for an old technology, but as lane surfaces are on average getting older, weaker cover stocks are going to be more in play and will out perform the strongest cover stocks. The DNA was a good example of this. It was storm’s strongest cover, but it would just burn up and not hook. I’m not disagreeing with you on the point that it’s a remade marvel core either, but all companies do it whether it’s the game breakers, widows, or jackals. On a final note, hook is not the end all be all of bowling balls. it’s more important to find balls that roll strongly into the pocket, regardless of how much it hooks
@@igotkickz84I mostly buy based off of performance and have never really thought of buying based off of hook rating. I can understand why you would be disappointed with this ball if you buy based off of hook rating. Thank you for opening my eyes to that. However, I do believe that you pay for performance. If that wasn’t the case, then urethane balls would be cheaper or equal pricing to the hustles etc. But I guess that’s why they make multiple balls in the same category. So that everyone can find a ball that will satisfy them!
Pin up, pin down, the difference is always so minimal that it doesn’t even matter how it’s drilled. I have everything pin up just for consistency sake.
pin down only looks goods having power hand like you and other tour players, other than that, it is very shitty and leaves a lot of 10 pin, avoid if not really necessary
That is 100% completely false! Pin down works great for me. May not work for you but cant make a blanket statement that is ONLY works for high rev or touring players.
I have 2 pin down balls. One a solid one a hybrid. Both are the epitome of control. Would not do a pearl that way as I’m a speed dominant player and don’t need the added length. But your blanket statement is totally wrong.
Excellent video. One key trend in this video that was not mentioned is the mental game and routine. Positive thinking and phrases after and before each shot. It is all about W.I.N ; What's Important Now. Focus on each frame. Keep up the great work and good luck this year
Thank you for sharing many of the thought processes of pro bowlers.
A great video. Enjoyed it a lot. I bowl in that house so it really was interesting
Ha ha…love the sit down on the stone 8. Brunsnick would be proud of you Brad. Pin up seems more predictable. Thanks for the vid.
Congrats on today’s work, Brad. Keep on grinding!
Good pin up / pin down comparison video guys. I usually only go pin down with my strong asymm solid and pearl to make it more usable on a house shot, but maybe a pin down layout on a medium ball has its benefits as well.
Thoughts on full roller layouts? With the pin by the thumb. Recently changed my stuff to full roller and don't see much on it.
This SHOULD be basic knowledge, but unfortunately a LOT of people provide misinformation on this topic because they equate pin down to pin down with a low balance hole, which of course is now illegal.
Pin DOWN layouts take more weight out of the TOP of the weight block, which DECREASES differential.
Pin UP layouts take more weight out of the SIDE of the weight block, which INCREASES differential.
More Diff = more Flare = more downlane motion.
Wider flare rings has a slower response to friction. It will slow down faster front to back with less length. Tighter flare rings will respond faster to friction.
That seems counter intuitive. Pin down, less diff, tighter flare rings, longer hook window-slower response time to friction.
@@VVenDiesel300 Perception of pin down vs reality. More flare, wider flare spacing, ball slows down sooner. Less flare, tighter spacing, ball takes longer to slow down and responds quicker. Its the physics of it and why balls are designed around it. Typically lower end equipment and equipment for drier lanes is designed with higher RGs and lower diffs to get the ball down lane and still have the energy to respond to friction. On two of the same ball with the same pin to pap and the only difference is pin up vs pin down the difference on the lanes is minimal if any for most bowlers. People that manufacture and design equipment know this, pros and people trying to make content and sell you equipment dont seem to th-cam.com/video/i6QUPduvEn4/w-d-xo.html
@@VVenDiesel300 less flare takes longer to slow down, more length. Tighter flare rings has a faster response to friction which is why most lower end equipment and drier lane equipment has lower diff cores. Retain energy longer vs burning it off faster. For most direct comparisons on the same ball and same pap only pin up vs pin down the difference is almost non existent. My reply with CTDs video showing the lack of difference in reaction was deleted. Ball designer information vs PBA player that doesn't understand the difference being evident
Awesome as always, great games and nice explanations... be safe.
Only pin down ball i have is a black widow 3 and i love it. Trips a lot of 4s. I was debating how i would drill this ball when i pick it up next week.
love this ball! just had a demo day and i couldnt miss with it!
Loved that review and analysis! I almost always drill equipment pin up. I need to experiment with pin down layouts. What would you say the number of boards difference were between the two balls? Sounded like 4-5 boards and less angle with the pin down….
Thanks for sharing that. Great info.
It was fascinating to hear the decision process on every single shot from a pro bowler. Unfortunately, google translate doesn't have a "bowler speak" => English setting and I only understood about half of what he was saying. One of his primary themes of finding the ball that handles misses better is a great takeaway that I WAS able to understand and will use. I tend to get enamored with the ball/angle/release combo that has the most explosive pin contact - which is fun when it happens but probably doesn't result in the highest scores.
I like the pin up one better. 😁
Pin down on a symmetrical ball is terrible for me after the weight hole ban. It's basically just the cover doing all the work and I definitely don't have enough revs to make it work.
Nice comparison, what are the layout numbers?
I haven't bought a new ball in many years. I am still throwing a 17year old Twisted Fury. It looks brand new because I have an Innovative revivor and a spinner. I still out bowl some that buy new ball every few months. I don't bowl tournaments anymore,so I haven't needed a new ball. I also haven't gone to the realxed grip for the same reason. I tired it and just didn't like it. The stretch grip doesn't both my hand at all.
Thank you Brad. That was a great video. You are such a cool guy i love what you and Kyle are doing. It always clntains a ton of information. Can you just du us a favor. When you move could you give board information, f. ex. I do 4/2 move playing over 17 @the arrows to break on 8. I think it could be helpful.
Nice video. I always tell people you can throw a perfect release, hit the pocket every time, right ball speed, rev rate, etc. But bottom line comes down to this. The pins will do what they want to do. But yes. Having a good ball. Not really the newest bad A__ ball. Good release, and all the other stuff. It helps. That's what makes bowling a challenging sport. Thanks. 🤓😎🤔🫣😝😛🙄😉🎳🎺
How do you have that optimum idol pearl drilled? Where r u guys located.? Just asking just in case I want lessons one day
I would like to see a split screen to compare pin up/down.
Wish I would have known this before I had my ball drilled. Getting back into bowling after 20 year hiatus (and now being 70). Decided to go NU Blue because they said its like the old blue. Talking with the pro he drilled standard finger tip with Pin up. My first session with it was a disaster. 65, then 149. 1 strike only in the proper pocket and not sure what I did. But it hooks hard left down lane. My ball speed avg 9 (8.8 to 9.2) .... Wish I would have had it pin down to keep it from breaking too fast.
Not sure what the house oil pattern was or if there was a league before hand.
Ive got a lot of work to do. I used to stand on the dot left of center and roll it over the 10 board. I tried that it went dead into the left gutter. Wound up over near the left gutter and strill trying for 10 or drifting out to 2-5 just to get it near the brooklyn side.
Thanks for the tips Kyle,
Randy Peterson has left the chat 10.33😂😂😂😂😂😂
Do pin down with more surface compared to pin up with some polish on the surface. Curious to see if there’s a huge difference.
What about pin on in line with the fingers.
I'm a huge fan of pin down, but the pin up looked best for Brad.
I'm not Brad, and neither is most of his audience.
@@mikewrobel2881 are you sure you're not Brad?
I could be wrong, but I suspect the inconsistency in the release, speed, oil moving, accuracy is going to make more of a difference than the pin placement. So you are never going to be able to tell which one you prefer. You prefer throwing the ball good and then it will work, no matter what. Unless I'm wrong.
There is a typo on your below info... "ttwo of the BEST"
Nice Vid. I think I'm definitely a pin down guy.
What layout would be best for somebody what is a ball speed of 7 to 9
Plastic. Assuming you mean 7 to 9 MPH. If not a plastic ball a pearl cover, 6500 surface, pin up to get hook and roll as late as possible. You risk the ball rolling out and dumping all of its energy into friction. A really low speed like that I think you should delay ball reaction as long as possible. I’m not an expert but its my 2 cents based on my own experience and observations.
@@goobytron2888 7 to 9 ball speed thanks
What is difference between a house shot and a league game?
A house shot is what you would see in a casual/regular league and is pretty forgiving, a sport shot found in tournaments and such will usually have more oil and/or oil further down the lane and/or width so there is less room for error in your shot
Smooth balls 😁📸
Brought to you by manscape 2.0
i just bowled there a week ago! that’s awesome
lanes do hook quite a bit
Marvin Bryant James Williams
yeap nice vdeo
Brad "Up The Back" Miller
엄지라인이 왼쪽 으로 틀어진 12시방향에서 로테이션 해서 중약지를 왼쪽 대각선방향으로 샷
shoot it from arrow one until max borad, until it cannot strike anymore for both layout ...
Pin down symmetric without the low hole is a boat anchor for me
same here it'll clip my fingers too. I use a 40x4x65 for my big asyms
@@SuperFatPainterMan81 same, I only
Go pin down on asym balls. The symmetricals just do nothing for me pin down
@@stormb28 yea I went pin down on my current asymmetrical and love it. I believe it cuts down the overall reaction to a degree.
Why does were the pin is place matter ( only been bowling about a year and never really got into the intense break down )
People say that pin down offers a smoother ball reaction from what I've been told
See the comment above that talks about where it takes weight from the core.
Why dont you talk about the pin to pap vs just up or down? The pin down looks to be clearly shorter (pin to pap) then the pin up. When trying to compare apples to apples you want to make that variable the same as well. Shorter pin to pap vs longer pin to paps have different characteristics. Talk to Daniel P. and he can explain it more to you. Your inconsistency throwing the ball in the video is far greater then the differences in ball reaction of pin up or down, especially if you were to match the same pip to pap distances on both balls.
yessir
So, that's where my shammy disappeared to. Lol
Do most of yall stand on the big dot on a house pattern?? Atleast start there?
The clear answer is pin in the ring finger.
So many hacks in the comments and it shows 😂
You do you Brad.
Cool video talk tech bowling ball summit ascent bowling ball with Ai technology in the bowling ball more strikes and spares hitting power at times too Brad and Kyle
Storm balls recently : Boring, not innovative and expensive. Brunswick ftw
Seems like as long as you enjoy the ball you get and it rolls the way that you need it to, then you are set for success.
brunswick sucks period. Majority of the recent PBA/PWBA have bowled either for Storm or Motiv. Storm/Motiv>brunswick
How do you think Brunswick became so successful? Boring, reliable, predictable.
True
Brunswick killed over 300,000 people....yep.....ftw is right.
pin up goes longer, pin down reads sooner and has more arch and will not
jump left. phase 2 , have one drilled both ways and is the go too ball when
all others seam to be hit and miss
Not sure what the big hype is about with this ball. It’s a 30 yr old coverstock that’s weak and the core is a remade marvel core. You’re paying premium for old technology!! R2S cover?!? Seriously storm?!! And you as a company were the leaders in price to hook value are now dead last…hammer took that away now. Sad to watch a company put so little into their bowling balls and expect so much money back. Breaks my heart to watch them do this.
Kind of what I thought, but if it works and shows results, then what can you say? I guess we'll see. It could be a bit cheaper to your point though.
It’s what the tour guys needed
Just would like to politely disagree with you here. Yes, you are paying premium for an old technology, but as lane surfaces are on average getting older, weaker cover stocks are going to be more in play and will out perform the strongest cover stocks. The DNA was a good example of this. It was storm’s strongest cover, but it would just burn up and not hook. I’m not disagreeing with you on the point that it’s a remade marvel core either, but all companies do it whether it’s the game breakers, widows, or jackals. On a final note, hook is not the end all be all of bowling balls. it’s more important to find balls that roll strongly into the pocket, regardless of how much it hooks
@@weyland9022Well said! The points were valid but are we paying for performance or hook rating?
@@igotkickz84I mostly buy based off of performance and have never really thought of buying based off of hook rating. I can understand why you would be disappointed with this ball if you buy based off of hook rating. Thank you for opening my eyes to that.
However, I do believe that you pay for performance. If that wasn’t the case, then urethane balls would be cheaper or equal pricing to the hustles etc. But I guess that’s why they make multiple balls in the same category. So that everyone can find a ball that will satisfy them!
Pin up, pin down, the difference is always so minimal that it doesn’t even matter how it’s drilled. I have everything pin up just for consistency sake.
pin down only looks goods having power hand like you and other tour players, other than that, it is very shitty and leaves a lot of 10 pin, avoid if not really necessary
That is 100% completely false! Pin down works great for me. May not work for you but cant make a blanket statement that is ONLY works for high rev or touring players.
@mattchapman5025 I agree. I'm faster speed and avg. revs and pin down is more controllable, and I feel like it starts up a little quicker.
I have 2 pin down balls. One a solid one a hybrid. Both are the epitome of control. Would not do a pearl that way as I’m a speed dominant player and don’t need the added length. But your blanket statement is totally wrong.
This is so egregiously false lmao. 😂