Yes ... we need more heads to "stand on" or else they can simply "chop off" [= discredit] the one of the "leader" and win. GamerGate had no leader and was pretty much untouchable because of this, but the fight against social justice in the western world needs many more than just Peterson, Saad and a handful of others. Every university needs their heroes to fight this.
"..Support these brave professors.." Let's not get carried away. University professors have been living off tax payer money (money handed to them after being taken from the public by force) for decades. This model is by definition a form of extortion (a violent monopoly on a service), and it tends to breed a culture of complacency and moral hypocrisy. The same is true throughout all state education. In a free market this rot would never have been allowed to set in, because employing staff with mad ideologies like this would not only be a massive unnecessary cost, but these ideologues would all be a massive liability to the university or school. But under the current _coercive monopoly_ model it is the people who call this stuff out who are considered the liabilities.... people like Shepherd and Peterson. Sure, these profs are courageous to speak out now things have gotten so bad, but decades (centuries) of complacency and feeding off the teat of the state is precisely what got them into this position to begin with. Even the way they dissect the letter is rather cowardly. Let's not beat about the bush...... the letter should have read something like.... "Recently our staff, targeted, harassed and bullied a student TA, and spread vicious falsehoods and false accusations to both her and JBP. We are grateful to LS for having the intelligence and fortitude to record the conversation and bring it to our attention. Here is a list of concrete steps we are going to take as a result of this incident..... (list of SPECIFIC changes/ actions which can be measured and verified to have taken place, or not)" End of. No fluff. No cushioning. No "We are committed to X but also the opposite of X also, because patriarchy" Peterson and his two guests are so used to PC speak infecting universities they have forgotten what straight talking actually sounds like. IN fact everyone in the world seems to have forgotten. We are all being conditioned to accept PC-speak / pseudo science/ political-speak as proper authentic language. It is not. It is NLP style conversational hypnosis. Mind control, in essence.
Technocracy experts manufacturing opinions at their worst. When we have autistics forming defense awareness groups to create dialogue about the best treatment without being bossed by experts, and yet we have these kinds of regressions to totalitarian PC think. This is unacceptable.
But how much wait will their speech carry with the overbloated admins of Universities (financed by easy government approved student loans) power to sanction or allocate resources to them?
I’d organized a weekly philosophy group for seven years. We were never political, reading Plato and the classics. Enter: the radical post modernist mean kids. I’ve hardly seen such cruelty in my life - the philosophy group was torn apart. I see exactly what Jordan is talking about
Brian Androw my current level of understanding is that postmodernist ideas are most destructive for conservative ideas of value and classic (especially Ancient Greek) Philosophy laden with proclamations of value and the good (or moral) life. That in and of itself is already something to be concerned about I find, but there indeed seems to be a strange alliance between this denial/deconstruction of grand narratives with the use of critical theory, which is particularly useful as a tool with which to hack at liberal societies. It’s here where things really get out of kilter in my view. Would you agree with this (admittedly overly condensed) representation?
Brian A I attended philosophy night classes 22yrs ago have to say was intellectually engaging and most civil however average age was 50.Reflecting on your experience I'm disappointed though not surprised if what I read in utube comments section is any indication. I wish I didnt feel the need to look however it helps me look at my own understanding and many times I've gained a new perspective.Maybe this digital medium is too much too soon, a sea of opinions wash aside experience and civility.
I am following along with great interest about this and appreciate Peterson's analysis in this and other videos. VERY high quality Jordan, you are killing it with all your youtube content and are really the FUTURE of education!
true: But Jordan's thinking is not a closure: Some ideas he presents need further contextualising. They are not fully developed for education (in schools) as this is not his agenda. But any research in education that ignores his thinking belongs to middle ages
Exactly. That is why he really is the future of education: the contextualizing is happening with a live and interactive audience of people who agree and disagree with his ideas. It is easy to get stale in the "safe" and insulated environment of the university and it's really where ideas go to die nowadays. The other professor said he has no problem with people taping his lectures cause he's not saying anything he wouldn't say in public. Right on about that.
1:18:10 Race Class & Gender anthology: "Objectivity, as found through rational thought, is a western and masculine concept that we will challenge throughout this text."
When it says they will review policies and procedures to make sure this will never happen again they're talking about banning recordings during SJW inquisitions LOL
B4, I would not b able to listen to something this long. Seeing how civil, rational, logical, honest and practical these individuals r makes me hunger for more talks with level headed thinking. Really enjoy these talks.
I am truly jealous of Lindsay Shepherd. I was bullied by self-ascribed justice warriors and caved, whereas this courageous woman rose to the occasion in the greatest fashion.
Remember, she was mentally prepared for it. That's the key. You have to make sure you have a battle plan with contingency plans ready. I'm sure you will next time.
JBP. A real, ACTUAL, honest-to-god hero. Ive never really felt that way about anyone else before. (sorry to my departed dad..) I'm trying to think of a another person in my 47 years that i admired so much for their knowledge, intellect, communication, leadership and bravery. There are those that I have held in reasonable regard - but nothing like the awe and respect I have for you. Thank god for you. And thank god for your many followers and that hear you speak, and understand the clear thruths you present. Starting to sound a bit political movementy/culty/obsessive now....? Ok forget about all that. How about i just really admire you and the work you have been doing. Cheers & love to all.
I had this very conversation with my 3, 20 something children at supper this last week. They focused and repeated the post-modernist diatribe about trans rights, until I said that it had nothing at all to do with this topic (it being only the topic of the month) and everything to do with the ideology behind it. Then the conversation shifted to, 'what is Marxism', 'what does Marxism believe', 'what is their goal here', and we could actually get to the root of the problem and why I felt compelled to have this conversation with them. Until that point, they merely regurgitated all the things that they had been force fed to believe was a natural progression toward a more just society. They surmised that this change in our society was akin to the civil rights era of the 1960's and 1970's. I told them it was far more insidious, as most of us would reject the underlying ideology, if we were made aware of it, and this is why I braved the onslaught to make them aware that it was indeed happening. I stayed at home to raise 3 very bright, inquisitive, and balanced kids, who can communicate very well and think critically, and still the influence of the public school system has not been a good one. It's something I must continually work to overcome. It's ironic to me that the one child who didn't go to university, was the one to follow Jordan Peterson because of his videos online. Thank you, Jordan, for sticking your neck out and standing up for what you know is right, in this time of madness. It's good to hear a voice of reason amongst the nonsense that makes up such a large part of our societal discourse today.
Omg. I had the same experience with my own children. My 24 yr old university graduate daughter spews that same crap while my non academic 17 year old son sees it as complete nonsense.
Young adults minds have been poisoned with the Marxist doctrines, with most of them not even knowing the root behind their own thoughts, and beliefs. I hope your talk opened their minds and eyes to how they've been, for lack of a more kind term, brainwashed. They sound like they're more open to the truth than most due to their upbringing, but people don't like to have their core briefs challenged. Fingers crossed, because if kids like yours can't accept it then we're doomed. Keep leading them in the right direction ✌️😎
I made sure my kids knew to question everyone before they went to university and that people who will not debate are the ones with no clothes. For example, take something awful like a holocaust denier, you can counter such with historical records, etc. These people don't want to debate. My children and I don't care if you want a sex change or what gender (based on customs of the society in which we live) you want to be but a lot of their positions in the trans movement could be argued with critical thinking are 1) anti women, 2) anti teenage women especially, 3) anti-gay, etc. If you tried to raise these issues at these universities, I imagine their heads would explode and since the left historically represents these groups I mentioned, it has to be purely about power and the kids should question this university establishment.
I don't understand why not more professors have come out to discuss the current problems in academia and collegue campuses and the stifling of freedom of speech that directly affect them and affect student's education so negativily.
You’re getting significantly better at running interviews Jordan. I can see you actively curtailing your proclivity to make longwinded (very intelligent) statements, that in the past have derailed the central thrust of the conversation. Even the great among us have room to improve, apparently. It is making for a very good interview platform. Thank you for making this for us.
We obviously love listening to JP speak or we wouldn't be subbed, but at the same time he really does need to work at not dominating a conversation when he's the interviewer. Really hurts the fluidity of the dialogue. Even makes me feel a bit awkward as a viewer somehow. Almost like I feel for the interviewees who can't get a word in edgewise.
My Daughter will be looking at Universities 1 year from now. I went to Waterloo down the street, and Laurier would have been on the list of possible schools she would have considered. In fact, I toured Laurier with my son 2 years ago when he was looking at UIniversities. I can promise: there is NO WAY she will be even looking at Laurier following this outrageous situation. I am sure other parents and students would share my view.
Yes like the comment above me said it can happen these days anywhere. Laurier seems to be reassuring in that professors like these ones were there and helped Lindsay out in this situation instead of just ignoring what is happening or join against her
PIX BMS I didn't know that pirates are into computer programming. Lol. Just joking because of your photo there. I think you've chosen wisely... The programming, that is, not the piracy. Lol. Forgive the lame jokes, it's very late at night when everything strikes me as silly. Hope you don't mind my goofy comments. Oh, I wanted to say my daughter graduated from a very liberal, very expensive college in NYC and even that didn't guarantee any great career. Then, years later, at age 40, she became a registered nurse after another 4 yrs of study at a state university. Not everyone has her energy and perseverance and ability to adapt to whatever comes their way. One of my son's majored in art. He delivers pizza, and says he should have studied a specific occupation ( like you did). The other son hardly went to high school and is a tattoo artist and his work and skill is admired, but it's a variable type of occupation. My eldest son hitchhiked out west after high school, became a talented djembe drummer, lived in and hiked the Gila Mountains for years, had many friends, assisted at the birth of his child at the Gila River, he was loved by many people of diverse ages and social status. Unfortunately he was shot and killed 7 yrs ago, an unjustified homicide, tragic and unimaginable, brought about by a woman's foolish love of "drama" in her life. And as for myself, I barely got thru life's challenges. It's a tough time for young people to make it these days. I hope you continue to do well. I think you will. Something about your comment inspired me to reply to you.
I think the difference is that Uni of Waterloo is a world renowned intellectual space, and as such the students there are much less likely to be fooled by the PC agenda.
totally, id recommend everyone in university's get those rerecording devices shaped like pens or lighters and always be recording. even if they make it against policy to do so just record everything.
ChristofferEricsater ya you got it rough man from what i hear sweden got it the worst a real liberal hell hole its either you guys or England it's really hard to tell witch one of you guys got hit worst by the far left cultist at this point good luck man and fight the good fight
The University may try and make it a breach of policy but I would suggest as long as it doesn't break the Law any half-way competent lawyer would get it shut down VERY quickly!!!
My guess is they'll say 1) Anytime a meeting like that is held the TAs have to be offered a representative/advocate for their interests, and 2) the TAs have to notify the profs if they intend to record the meeting.
Wow this was probably one of the best videos regarding free speech and everything Jordan has been warning us about for the past year, and a testament to why we should protect freedom of expression at all costs. Also the quality was excellent, I hope Jordan keeps making videos with such good quality. That's all, i'm gonna go clean my room now.
Happened to me. I had the gall to say that biological sex has an effect on brain structure in my psychology course. I was dragged before the dean of the college and threatened with expulsion.
Academics - generally cowards. These men are the exception, not the rule, but thank God they exist. On a tech note, all microphones should be mixed and equalised so each speaker has a similar tone and output. However Dr Peterson, technically your videos have improved incredibly, intellectually I feel you have improved me quite a bit. Thank you.
More tech notes :) I would rather hear them talking over each other in full fidelity (all mics left on) rather than fading them in and out so much. Just fade the mics out to get rid of coughs, water sips, excessive rustling etc ....otherwise leave them on. This is a civilised conversation, any talking over each other is accidental and only momentary, and can be left in. Also the constant cuts to JBP listening were a bit weird. A ukelele in the background would be nice. Played live of course. Or perhaps a lute or an oud.
Cowards lol You spend your whole life working your ass off for a highly competitive position. Who wouldn't avoid making noise? Who are the brave ones? Are you brave if you risk yourself when you have barely anything to lose? How many CEOs that would be negatively affected by speaking out speak out? It's almost as if almost everyone is a coward but you can only tell about their true identity if they're an academic or a CEO, etc.
PedroTricking perhaps you are very conflict averse, let's say. Hope it will save your sorry arse. I work in academia and will stand with JBP, not with you.
I'm by far more attention averse than I am conflict averse. Being really contrarian also goes against the idea that I'm conflict averse. What area do you work in in if you don't mind me asking?
Totally agree. Had I been there I would have sent a letter or protest at the very least! I also find it disturbing that even this video promotes the idea that Trump is a bad candidate, based on his supposed discrimination... as far as I know the entire basis for the "Trump is a racist/sexist" argument is founded in a misquotation of a speech he gave one time at a border state about the crime rate among migrants being higher, combined with the blown-out-of-proportion chat with another guy he had about certain women and how they act around rich male/celebrities. I haven't heard any actual evidence other than these things; only a lot of repetition along the same lines that "since everyone believes it, it must be true". Let's not forget that most of the spread of this Trump-hate came from the mainstream media who Trump has quite clearly and definitively called out as "Fake" and made and enemy of! But that gets easily swept under the rug by any and all who have some reason to want a woman or democrat in the office.... which, [if you ask me,] is truly a sad commentary on the level of critical thinking that goes on within most peoples' brains, and is yet another example of the complete and total failure the FREE government-funded PUbLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM in the U.S.A. .... does anyone really think free = great? No, but the parents see a free school and compare it to paying 20, 30, 40 THOUSAND dollars a year, which is about the same price as they paid for their HOUSE....
Dak Ralter The reason they keep harping on it with Trump is because it had worked in the past (not on him mind you). It worked so well that their skills in defeating opponents atrophied to the point of uselessness. They had the easy kill shot. Racist. Sexist. I win. The problem is, they lost. And now they don't have the skills to win again. This makes them very angry and the try and try again to beat the same drum constantly. It's all they know how to do.
I really wonder if no one of those people, faculty and students as well, can't see that safe spaces are utterly contraproductive and dangerous. How will those young people be able to face _real_ life? And by the way, how are they supposed to _fight_ the problems life will confront them with on their own and with no one coming to the rescue? Hell, I have lost family members and friends to cancer and I have some very unpleasant memories concerning this. Should I go to my employer and demand that they should remove the cancer patients from my workspace, since they trigger me? Well, if I could not deal with this, then I should not have become a nurse and work on a cancer ward. And _then_ I read about law students forcing their professors to skip topics like "rape", because some students felt triggered. Sooo, once you are a lawyer, cunt, and have to fight for a rape victim, will you then suggest the court should talk about other crimes instead? Will you refuse to fight for rape victims in general? Oh, _that_ will make the world better for all the rape victims.
Outstanding. Thank you very much Dr. Peterson, Dr. Haskell, and Dr. McNally. I especially appreciate Dr. Haskell's statement that we must act true to ourself, "You've gotta look your kids in the eye, eventually. And how are you going to say that you need to stand up for truth if you actually don't stand up for truth?" Thank you for standing forthrightly.
uPsIdEdOwN More aptly, Critical Theory devolved into post-modernism - devaluing critical thinking. Critical Theory is a much wider & substantive framework for evaluating institutions & teaching critical thinking than was given credit in this video... Not to mention it hasn't had much of a representation in English (as it was developed in German decades before translational efforts).
Diversity of [insert FIXED outside characteristic or sexual orientation/state] has replaced diversity of thought ... @Progress Holistic Tell me about it ... here in Germany we do not have anything like "freedom of speech" anchored in the mindset of the general public and all the media networks are providing is "pro-government coverage". I am currently writing a letter to a newspaper which had an article from a media studies professor about "how to talk to the right-wing people" ... after we got a small part of them in our parliament after this years election and he only looks at "discussion strategies on how to win that fight" but never at "what did we (lefties) do wrong to create this rise of right-wing?" Self-criticism? Nah ... Oh and he looks at the "rise of the right" as "the problem" when it is actually rather the effect of the cause. So far I am on page seven of that letter ... and I hope I manage to finish it.
uPsIdEdOwN anyone can be an oppressor and the oppressed at any time. So sad. Wonder how Swedish women feel when walking down the streets now of their own country. The leaders in Sweden are the oppressors and the women the oppressed by ISLAM and their own GOVT
Just need to sort out the audio. Need to invest in three radio mics and a quality digital audio recorder. Easy to relay the audio back during the edit. At the moment the audio is cobbled together using the two camera audio tracks listening to it. The other guy on the couch was well in the background. Irritating...
Yes I know, but it's the arrangement to the audio tracks into the recording devices (cobbled) which makes the present arrangement impractical. You will hear that in the edits. Individuals out of shot are 'off mic'. And yes, I had over 30 years broadcast experience in documentaries... However, loving the debate.
I'm so glad that Lindsay is getting some support and that I have a new Jordan Peterson chat to watch as an extra Christmas present. I'm also grateful for the honing of my mind. I've never felt adept at arguing, roughly speaking. Whether it be standing up for myself, or cognitive debate. Now I have structure of what subjects I might need to know in and out for my political beliefs and how important it is to know the other side even more carefully. Happy New year Drs. and viewers!
sno0p3r yeah because they think it's just a bunch of college kids overeating, but the question they should ask is what happens in the next 5 to 10 years when those same kids are in positions of power? in every level of society, when you ask that question you understand it's going to be up to all of us to fight this at whatever level we can, because if we don't check this behavior and way of thinking it's going to lead to chaos.
sno0p3r Seems like war is coming...the Left has doubled down and siezed power. Their purpose for mass migration in the EU is simple. Migrants vote Left, Citizens vote right. Their primary goal with all of this is taking control, and if the Right waits until it is too late...well, Venezuela, Cuba, Soviet Russia, Argentina and on and on...
Good job you three, we need more profs like you stepping forward and using their position to voice some reason into the vacuous insanity of the howling left.
Just because someone disagrees with yo doesn't always mean they're an adherent of "Critical Theory" or any doublespeak. They may just be worth talking to.
I feel like I'm sitting down with you guys. Thank you for this rare opportunity to hear from you guys all at once on this discussion. It's not to often we get this kind of a scholarly conference.
From the Clarification statement released by WLU " a later discussion among students about the video was brought to the attention of a staff member". I can certainly see why the Liberal Arts faculty was alarmed to find students taking ideas from class and discussing them without supervision. They may have even come up with ideas on their own!
I'm writting from Spain. I'm so grateful to have found you thanks to my half spanish half swedish daughter. I'm no longer an orfan intelectual thanks to you and other people you talk with. I believe that the fundamental points you articulate tell the story of western countries intelectual sickness that shows among other manifestations the tendency to claim for free speech, freedom, and free determination in one way, the extreem left one. In my opinnion right and left are no longer accurate definitions. I beleive that free speech must be for everyone to speak, be listened and to motivate honest and civil debates based on facts and well documented and accurate evidences. What we are experiencing lately in Spain with the catalonian challenge is a sample of the post modernism expression in a vicious way. When words and actions are prostituted and when no honest debate is made posible because the discourse is used to produce confusion and mirages. Thanks to people like you there is light and hope in a general atmosphere of mental darkness. Thank you.
I'm from Catalonia. The Catalan Issue has nothing to do with Postmodernism. The Spanish state is rotten with corruption and still hangover from 40 years of dictatorship. Catalonia is also rotten with corruption. But the Spanish state is not being democratic with Catalonia and that's THAT. They should have let us decide in the first place, but they fucked up and proved who they really are -- and thanks to their stupidity, pride and diplomatic clumsiness, we find us now in a very ugly situation. I was never an independentist, but since the police broke into my highschool on the election day and beat up a friend of mine, I have sympathy for the separatists. I don't want to stay in a country who doesn't allow me to decide if I want to stay or not -- That's called kidnapping or hijacking. Would you be with a man who doesn't allow you to decide if you want to be with him or not? Exactly ;)
Lola Lucia not all is as dark or lost as it seems Lola. There are many of us who are still insisting on speaking for themselves, with nuance and fearlessness. And one of us can sweep aside thousands of these thoughtless parrots by simply going beyond the superficial accusations and assumptions. It's soon to be clobbering time for common sense and the kindness that comes with it. Keep up the Good fight! And don't be so sure about the Catalan motivations ...listen to that person who responded. It might be the right time in history for countries to get smaller and for small people groups around the world to have more self-determination. I hope and pray that you and those who wish for Catalan independence can have civilized and thorough discussions.
Thank you. I'm also native and raised french, also lived in Sweden too. So I can spanish, catalan, swedish, french and english. This give me a panomaric capacity to grabe a big picture. Catalonian separatist like to present themselves as victims but they are supremacist among other dangerous things. I live in catalonia and have got first hand on the issue.
Guillem Ramos Well, Catalonia is a strong economic region. As with everything else, money and taxes has a lot to do with it. Europe does not need any new borders. I bet there is corruption in the autonomous government.
This reminds me of that verse ''Woe unto them that call good evil, and evil good, that put light for darkness, and darkness for light, that put sweetness for bitter, and bitter for sweet'' ~ lsaiah 5:2O Everything's inverted!!
When I was studying history in what you would call high school, about 12/13 years ago, I asked my teacher if it would be okay for me to download Triumph of the Will, which as all historians should know is *actual Nazi propaganda*, and show it to the class, since at the time we were studying World War II. I did so, we watched part of it (due to class time), talked about it and then...went on with the rest of our lives. No-one complained. No-one made a fuss about it. No-one talked about it outside of the classroom. It was seen by literally everybody that it was a perfectly logical thing to do. I honestly can't remember if I even mentioned it to my mother. If I had, she wouldn't have said anything. "Hey ma, watched a Nazi video in history class. Real interesting how well it was put together, how effective it was at gathering support". "That's nice" is about how it would have gone, if I ever did tell her about it. What has changed in just over 10 years that I and my fellow students can watch *actual Nazi propaganda* in class * all of us teenagers*, with no complaints, with the teacher not even blinking at the suggestion...to now, where showing a debate featuring *Jordan Peterson* who even if one believes all the horrible things said about him has not actually done anything like Hitler (i.e. no genocides) to *ADULTS* is verboten?
Gotta be honest here - I wrote this comment before hearing that point in the video where Peterson says he too shows Triumph of the Will in his classes. Great minds think alike!
He said that this video will be watched by 150,000 people. It already has 300,000 views and will get even more. It’s a good thing that more people are learning and watching useful content.
@@someeuropeanguy7378 680K That's roughly 5K a month. It would be interesting to see how that is affecting their profit. I come back here every so often to re-watch this, so I'll make a point of keeping track of the watch count.
690K. That's 10K in three weeks. That's an average of around 3.3K a week over the last 3 weeks. This video was uploaded in Nov 2017, roughly 19 months ago. The rolling average is 690K / 19 = 36315 views a month on average. WLU must be LOVING all the publicity.
"The university is taking concrete steps to take changes to ensure this doesn't happen again." - Metal detectors and frisk searches are implemented as we speak to ensure no more recordings will be made public.
Standing up for a speaker's freedom to speak to a paying audience on something other then what the audience paid for isn't standing up for freedom of speech. Next time you pay money to attend a conference and they switch speakers and topics, make sure you remain consistent and recognize those speakers freedom of speech and support those principles by not asking for your money back. And yes, I am being facetious. I don't expect you to stay silent but to ask for your money back. But this conflation of paid speech with free speech is really getting on my nerves.
Okay, I'll try to make it more coherent. If I enter into a contract with another to hear them speak on a particular subject, the person is bound by a contractual obligation to provide such speech. In other words, that speech was paid for and if the other person didn't provide that speech, the contract has been breached and I suffered a loss in money and time. If a student paid fees and attended a class where the teacher went off on a tangent, a contract has been breached. It does not matter if the speech was offensive or not offensive, enjoyable or otherwise, what matters is that it was not the speech contracted for. The other person cannot then claim that any action against them for the breach of contract for paid speech violates their right to free speech. Or that their right to free speech is a defense not to provide a contracted obligation. That same principle applies when an employer employs an employee to provide a scripted spiel to customers to obtain business. If the employee then goes on to exercise their free speech, they are in breach of the employment contract. Such a breach would not cover what they said in their free time, outside of working hours, but would cover what they said during the time they were supposed to be following a script. So if the Teaching Assistant went off script during a class they were teaching, they are in breach of the contract. There's no abrogation of the right to free speech because that time was paid for. Hence paid speech is subject to the laws of contract and not protected by any freedom of speech laws. I hope that made enough sense that you can comment on it.
Show me this contract where it clearly states that speech is to be contained within a confine that prevents people from gaining knowledge outside a narrow scope as you suggested. And I will read through that contract to see if it is truly as you suggest. And if it is, I would suggest that it is more of a method of indoctrination, rather than learning. Furthermore. What about the other students who want to learn what she taught? Are they not entitled to learn? Are they beholden to you or the preference of others?
Consider applying that argument to any contract, e.g. show me in this contract where it clearly states that the goods supplied is to meet the specifications, that prevents people from gaining benefits outside a narrow scope. A contract specifies the goods, either in terms of the good itself or in terms of the purpose for which the good is intended. No contract contains a clause that "the goods supplied is to meet the specifications, that prevents people from gaining benefits outside a narrow scope". If the customer gains additional benefits, that's called "value added". No contract specifies that, however, the value added is in relation to the customer. A complaint of a deviation means that deviation had no value added. If the other students want to learn what she taught, there would be a class for that. i.e. they would have signed up for some social study class. Your counter argument can be used to support feminism being included in every other class outside social studies. Who is to make the determination that students are entitled to learn which subject or that they want to learn a subject or that they should not be beholden to the preferences of the students who want to study something else, for example, engineering in an engineering class. The arguments that are bad remain bad whether a feminist or a libertarian is using them. They don't suddenly become good because the intention of the person using them are good. I appreciate that you took the time to ask for clarification and to posit a different perspective.I hope I have responded adequately to both. :)
Although I do not know the set of causes that make this happen, one point that seems important to touch upon is that much of academic work in humanities falls under the category of scholarship rather than research. There is no clear line of progression from one paper to another, where one minute finding is incorporated into further research or criticised by other scientists. The nature of the domain of humanities seems to be inherently much fuzzier (which is not a value judgment on my part). Even if the above is correct and humanities will always get fewer citations than, say, medicine, the ratio of 80% of papers not being cited shows that a lot of work is put into writing things that are of no interest to anyone, ^even^ the academics themselves.
I think this is like the 4th time I've heard Peterson mention it or something close to it. It's not completely new information, not on this channel anyway.
He only said humanities studies, not social sciences. I looked at the article which Jordan cited arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0809/0809.5250.pdf and it seems as though social sciences is quite well.
that is excactcly the problem, I have to write 2 thesis' for communication studies, and that only for my bachelor degree. And theoretically every paper should add something 'new' to the broader scientific field altho you HAVE to base everything on theories and stuff that already exists. It really is an unstable model tbh.
John Data she played a video. Got grilled by some sjws and cried a little. Real Woman of the year material. Martyr of the year more like it. I’m just saying.
Lawrenceii First of all. It was an audio tape. Secondly she had the wits to record it. Then she uploaded it without knowing at the time the charge was bogus. She is hardly a hero and no martyr. But definitely woman of the year. And Google victim James Damore is man of the year. Both liberal people crucified by the horrible regressive left and still standing tall.
As if tolerance is somekind of highest possible virtue? Like a narcissist spouse abusing his/her partner, and saying "you are not tolerant!! you are not good enough!! not nice enough!!" You should NOT have to tolerate constant unjust pain and abuse and ridicule.
You make the mistake of thinking this war is new, this is a centuries old attack (mostly from foreign anarchists operating under assumed anglo / germanic names) and later culminated in the invention of terrorism with the dynamiting of train stations and fairs around Europe by Jewish anarchists and later communist minions like the IRA. I suggest reading A Letter Concerning Toleration by John Locke written in 1689 that is literally the OG "We should not tolerate the intolerant." screed. This is a slow boil and we've stepped into the last days of it when the long march is complete.
Nah, it's really a question of WHAT and WHO is "tolerated" or not. They tolerate their own intolerance with great tolerance. It's YOUR intolerance of whatever they want that cannot be tolerated. It's really just empty words to give the false impression of having principles where there are none.
Most of these words and trends today are rackets for something else. They make their claims in large enough generalized terms, then use them for selective targeting. When you sort them out, they're just fronts for something that would be universally condemned under it's truthful name. They're used to take advantage of, or suppress the voice of some other group, race or class, and to promote policies that penalize others for the advantage of the racketeers. Another way to legalize crime for the "oppressed" group.
I really liked this panel, discussing current events like this should become a semi-regular occurrence. Could be called "Profs Talk with Jordan Patterson", I can see it catching on.
I used to live with Dr. McNally's son in university, it's nice to see him share his thoughts here because I know these issues have been on his mind for many years.
I'm so grateful to the SJWs because I had no idea who Jordan Peterson was before them and now I find his content the most useful I've found on TH-cam. Thank you.
why, just include someone like BRIGITTE Gabrielle or Ayaan Hirsi Ali, then gone with the fucking identity politics, and the result will be the exact same. This is about diversity of thought, NOT "diversity" of race or gender.
19:39 - THANK YOU!!!!! I've been waiting for someone to talk about the difference between Critical Theory and Critical Thinking, which sound similar, but are completely opposed!
I once had to explain to one of my PhD professors that critical thinking skills did not mean that it was critically important that we all think exactly the way she had told us to.
Critical Theory has some application in understanding totalitarian regimes, but the idea of applying it to everything, is equivalent of a doctor treating every disease with cough syrup. An induction fallacy of a cataclysmic scale.
Not everyone of these Germans were Jews, though connections to B'nai B'rith were definitely there. However, to real fruition it was brought by some of these people in the USA. People like Adorno and Horkheimer. The Rockefeller Foundation gave its share for their research projects too.
More like this! This type of content along with the lectures certainly repays the patreon contributions. I really like these guys as well. I love your sit down interviews with sensible and articulate people.
1:55 "I got a PhD, I'm able to reach my own conclusions....". I have a shovel and am a ditch digger, have tenure in the ditch, and I also can come to a conclusion on my own. I agree, I don't need people to tell me what is in my own best interest.
Exactly. Unless you voluntarily want help from specialists in different fields (you can learn most things on your own) then no free thinking human needs anyone to form their opinions.
Just started watching and this format is brillant. I'm now meeting more and more people who have heard of JBP. He's just so very stoic, but also very highly functionally conscious.
This is so great, thanks for your dissection of this, it really bothered me to hear about this occurrence with Lindsay Shepherd and to have these gentlemen use their large brains to help clarify everything was very wonderful.
So really, that letter was a "sorry, not sorry". It asserted the wrongness of the meeting with Shepherd, but ended with "so what?" Nothing has changed.
This conversation warms my heart! The opposite of "free speech" is not "hate speech", like leftists would claim it to be. It's censorship! My deep appreciation for your continued exploration and efforts, Dr.Peterson, to preserve and uphold the values it's taken thousands of years of evolution for humans to attain! 🙏
Far leftists don't seem to think that hate speech is the opposite of free speech. On contrary they seem to think that this is an equivalent and this is why people are worried about free speech because all they want to do is hate speech
Unless you are inciting violence, your speech should be protected, no matter how hateful. That you can suffer legal repercussion for OFFENSE is a very very dangerous line of thinking that leads to fascism.
You might want to look up the case of Mark Meechan, a comedian in Scotland. Textbook case of exactly what you are talking about. He was very controversial, but they convicted him for offending people, after determining that the context of his joke is irrelevant. Enjoy the fascism.
So they do not learn about any terrorists, nazis, stalin, etc. stuffs in University anymore? Like I am very Offended by censure, it hurt my heart and I wonder where I can protect to make my pain heard and get a safe place for me too?
On triggering students: excessive stress from homework and studying can trigger students, but we don’t see faculty bending over backyards to appease that, now do we?
I see what you're saying but other people might think you're trying to make homework go away. The universities might even consider it if they read this lol.
This kind of stuff started in the USA and has now infected Canada, not the other way around. US universities are already SJW-ized for the most part. Not much difference between threatening legal action and threats, harassment, violence and psycho terror against wrong-thinkers like it's happening at US unis if it has the same effect.
Damien Blake Thanks I didn't know this it's about time the powers that be put their foot down and stopped this madness! These students that's are wrapped up in cotton wool and have never been in the real world a day in their lives need to get out their safe spaces and grow some balls or at least a thicker skin! A year or two ago when American coloured students where asking for safe space segregation spaces I could not believe it !! After all the great work done by people like MLK these SJW morons are wanting to go back to segregation!!! These black students are from well off families and have never faced real racism or hardship in their lives ! And they have the nerve to try and talk for all black people some of which have very real problems!
1:12:20 "80% of humanities papers are not even cited once". This is indeed a serious observation. It's called the "uncitedness rate" of papers, and it depends on the discipline. According to a 2014 LSE blog article "Are 90% of academic papers really never cited? " by Dahlia Remler, it is 12% for medicine, 27% for natural sciences, 32% for social sciences and 82% for humanities. She attribute this partly to books rather than articles as the preferred medium of publication in the humanities, as well as the window (look back time) for citations, which in humanities is longer. Some comments note that perhaps viewing rates for on-line articles should be considered, in addition to citations, in considering the impact of publications. Others question whether search-engine generated article citation indices are meaningful measures of the impact of research. 1:18:10 "Race, Class, and Gender ... page14 ... Objectivity, as found through rational thought, is a western and masculine concept that we will challenge throughout this text." Wow. The discussion which follows is fascinating. And horrifying.
"I just can't understand how people on the far left can rationalize that behavior." Here's the deal: the people on the far left do not share your (I'm assuming fundamental precept) that actions define the moral virtue of an individual. In all likelihood, they've dispensed with the entire idea. Under the alternative precepts of social justice, what determines morality is that you believe in the collective goal. That frees you from moral judgement for any individual action. The most eye-watering hateful behavior I've ever seen has been directed at "protected minorities" that happen to speak out against the party line...and there is no contest to that vitriol unless you happen upon a violent divorce.
Ya, this parent is concerned. My dollars will speak for my family. This was a very helpful discussion in helping me understand what is going on in Ontario and in Canada. The problems I see developing remind me of the show Super Nanny where the children are taking over control of the household. There appears to be a great lack of parental leadership with measured and appropriate discipline. Before the youth can get educated the parents need schooling first.
Hi Mr Peterson. Im the same vintage as you and have been intellectually squabling with academics online on this very subject since Netscape and Alta Vista were a thing. Its fantastic the mainstream are finally being made aware of the pernicious and damaging nature of Post Modernist and Critical Theory driven thinking in universities. I sincerely hope you continue to fight the good fight, sir. In my view it is the biggest intellectual battle of the 21st century. Parents and the wider community need to become aware how the next generation are being psychycologically manipulated. Without putting too finer point on it, Western civilisation is at stake. Internet vloggers and 'shitlords' can only achieve so much. It is people with academic standing such as you who will drive the real change.
They worry about the mental well-being of liberal students, but what about the mental well-being of conservative students? They are continually being attacked. BTW, I'm a moderate.
being a foreign expat i think your "liberals" are crazy!! absolutely lost touch with the world. they have been gravely indoctrinated and failed to think.
As an artist i was rejected by the conservative community i grew up in. i could not wait to get into an art college and be among fellow "oddballs". It was very liberal, fun, creative , experimental & i dont regret it. I was finally able to be who i really was. What i DO regret is that, as a pack, we turned around and did to the few conservative students what had been done to us: we stereotyped them, ridiculed and shunned them. We made no attempt to even get to know them much less exchange ideas. Group think & peer pressure is a powerful thing. I had to live alot of years before i realized what we had done.
Thank you for saying that. I didn't realize how much I myself had in common with people until I started really looking at this issue. I had changed my name and still some people in my life refuse to acknowledge it. It is a representation of a life I no longer identify with and it does hurt me to have to keep seeing/hearing it. So I can (in a way) understand the issue transgenders have that just wants people to acknowledge their own identity shift. But I am not offended that they still use it as that WAS something that is a part of my identity too and to deny it existed is equally wrong. It's just as much a part of me as anything happening to me today. Not only that I am a Christian and every single day I see things that offend me. But I understand that not everyone sees the world as I do and I absolutely can NOT expect everyone to look at all issues with the same view I do. So I just look past it and am pleasantly surprised when someone does share a view with me. I think this is something we will need to go through - this pendulum swing in the opposite direction when it comes to freedom of speech and expression. It has been my opinion for a while now that their voices HAD been silenced in favor of a more "conservative" view. They have experienced violence and hate speech. That reality should only make them more sensitive to doing it to others. But perhaps they feel it justified to do it in return to all those people that they feel oppressed them. And that is scary to me because how many horrible things were done in the past with the justification of "Well they deserved it." The thing that is missed though is that many people they are wringing payment from for those past sins weren't the ones that created the situations they are protesting against and would probably support them if they weren't so extreme.
This is a great video. Great discussion. Dr. Peterson. I can only speak for myself but I think more content in a format like this would be fantastic. Here's hoping this becomes a semi-regular occurrence.
Clean your room With sounds of sorting. Rescue father, rise Be dangerous. Read the Gulag Do the wrongthink. Rescue father, rise Be dangerous. Intellectually Stay humble All your foes Think they are Virtous. Talk to them And don't assault them With the bike lock Like profesor Pez.
Dr. Peterson, this video was filmed in the interlaced format, it needs to be de-interlaced or else fast moving objects will leave behind "shadows" . You might be able to view the original clips ok on video players because the player de-interlaces the video in real time as it is being played. But TH-cam only takes videos in the progressive format, and interlaced video will be treated as if it was progressive, causing "shadows" to appear. To resolve this, you should de-interlace original video before putting it into video editing software.
Any tips for sorting out the audio issues when switching video feed / mic inputs? Eg, when cam on guests and JP speaks, it is picked up as low volume, low quality background. Just curious, and this content only needs a few tweeks to be broadcast quality it seems to me.
The reason the fact-finding report will not be released is, the university administration found out that the faculty who initiated this controversy LIED to, and about, Ms. Shepherd.
I don't see that. People are basing that on the phrase in the report that says there weren't offcial complaints or concerns about maters violating their code. That is like saying we didn't get a complaint about excess noise that quoted the By-law that was specifically violated, therefore nobody complained. It may be the case that nobody complained, but that sentence is extremely artful, I don't see why they emphasize "official" and Laurier rules, unless they were dodging.
In the inquisition they clearly say that there were complaints. It is also mentioned in more of this video, if you bothered to watch the whole thing. Therefore it was a lie that there was a complaint that justified the meeting in the first place.
I can not believe what's happening in Canada! I am a german and this reminds me of methods of the Stasi (Staatssicherheit) in former East-Germany (the German Democratic Republic). It is terrible and now i understand, why many americans want to have a gun. I never thought that a modern democracy could turn into in a dictatur. Now i am willing to believe that it is possible!! Absolutly crazy! Thanks for this video about an open minded discussion1
Michael S. You are correct in your assessment, we are about to turn into a North American DDR. It's unbelievable to see this happening to our country. You should see to what level this has truly infiltrated our education system! They are going after the young kids now. Democracy is a joke at this point.
Damn i feel like jordans eyes can see into the very soul. like he sees every sin i have even done, every mistake, every lie. HE KNOWS ! HE KNOWS EVERYTHING SECRET I AM HIDING ! HE KNOWS ME BETTER THEN MYSELF ! But he understands, like a mercifull father that i had never had he understands and forgives. Thank you jordan.
The guest Profs are a good sign. They represent, to varying degrees, those who generally don't pay attention to these issues now realizing how dangerous they are.
It might the first 2-hours long interview I've watched in my life. The ironical part is that I'm also from a different part of the world and an incredibly poor country. However, during the whole video I was just like Dr. William on the left, laughing amusingly at the ridiculousness of this whole situation. It just brings so many emotions. Also, I should say that this was a really nice discussion, very polite and reserved as if the other side was in the room listening. And yes, all three men are really good looking and articulate. It's a pity I didn't have such professors in university. P.S. Some people accused Peterson of not understanding postmodernism and marxism based on the assumption that he mixes unmixable. Luckily, it was addressed in this video.
I wanna go on a tour of Wilfrid Laurier U's campus. I heard the gravestone of Freedom of Speech is located somewhere in there. I'd like to pay my respects.
I know this is an older video. But god i absolutely love listening to Jordan openly think and analyze and articulate his stance and reasoning. His communication skills and ability to think for himself in pressure cooker situations in interviews and talking to masses its incredible. Frankly im jealous of his skill and intellect.
I thought 2 hours might be too long but this was gripping stuff that had me enthralled. Support from over here in the UK where I've been following this since the UOT debate/debacle. Here's another guy who does some really good videos on the whole L Shepherd thing - Benjamin A Boyce
I am glad and sad about this kind of discussion. Glad, that there are people who put themselves out there to defend basic necessary principles of a functioning society. Sad, that this discussion is even necessary.
I argued against Critical Theory for my entire undergrad. I'm amazed now that I was able to graduate with distinction from a media studies program in Ontario.
Gabriel Keogler I was going to comment the same thing. I never had any great fear that the money was being wasted. In the next 6 months I believe we will see many more advances in his work.
I know this was produced a long time ago but I want to thank these 3 professors for working hard to keep sanity live and well. I have seen current quotes on Twitter that lets me know that you are still fighting the good fight. I support you in your endeavors. I hope you still look at the comments
Ill tell you something, I'm three years into my undergrad in Molecular Biology, and there is factually incorrect political correctness that has started to seep into the courses. A quick example, when doing a statistical analysis of classes chromosomes the instructor asked for us to rise our hands to the gender we IDENTIFIED with. Its minor, and much less pressing then issues such as Lindsay Shepherd, but it is slowly starting to integrate itself.
What good would that do? At least 6.9 billion of them wouldn't understand it, and another 0.5 billion of them are positively opposed to everything Jordan Peterson says. I fear that we are doomed.
@ dieflab hyperbole [hahy-pur-buh-lee] 1. obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”.
Finally, I've found a video where Mr. Peterson is wrong! At 1:59:40 he says that this video will probably be watched by 150 thousand people. The count is currently at 795 thousand! So there!
Support these brave professors. We need more of them. David Haskell and William McNally - I salute you!
Yes ... we need more heads to "stand on" or else they can simply "chop off" [= discredit] the one of the "leader" and win. GamerGate had no leader and was pretty much untouchable because of this, but the fight against social justice in the western world needs many more than just Peterson, Saad and a handful of others. Every university needs their heroes to fight this.
Spread the word! Share the videos! The Voice in the Wilderness must be heard and to do this, we must spread it, too.
hear hear ---- he entertained this idea on one of the Joe Rogan podcasts
Isn't it fucking insane that guys saying very normal stuff, is considered brave?
"..Support these brave professors.."
Let's not get carried away. University professors have been living off tax payer money (money handed to them after being taken from the public by force) for decades. This model is by definition a form of extortion (a violent monopoly on a service), and it tends to breed a culture of complacency and moral hypocrisy. The same is true throughout all state education.
In a free market this rot would never have been allowed to set in, because employing staff with mad ideologies like this would not only be a massive unnecessary cost, but these ideologues would all be a massive liability to the university or school.
But under the current _coercive monopoly_ model it is the people who call this stuff out who are considered the liabilities.... people like Shepherd and Peterson.
Sure, these profs are courageous to speak out now things have gotten so bad, but decades (centuries) of complacency and feeding off the teat of the state is precisely what got them into this position to begin with.
Even the way they dissect the letter is rather cowardly. Let's not beat about the bush...... the letter should have read something like....
"Recently our staff, targeted, harassed and bullied a student TA, and spread vicious falsehoods and false accusations to both her and JBP. We are grateful to LS for having the intelligence and fortitude to record the conversation and bring it to our attention. Here is a list of concrete steps we are going to take as a result of this incident..... (list of SPECIFIC changes/ actions which can be measured and verified to have taken place, or not)"
End of. No fluff. No cushioning. No "We are committed to X but also the opposite of X also, because patriarchy"
Peterson and his two guests are so used to PC speak infecting universities they have forgotten what straight talking actually sounds like. IN fact everyone in the world seems to have forgotten.
We are all being conditioned to accept PC-speak / pseudo science/ political-speak as proper authentic language. It is not. It is NLP style conversational hypnosis. Mind control, in essence.
"The Diversity and Equity Office."
George Orwell
3/6/1984.
Ministry of Gender
Technocracy experts manufacturing opinions at their worst. When we have autistics forming defense awareness groups to create dialogue about the best treatment without being bossed by experts, and yet we have these kinds of regressions to totalitarian PC think. This is unacceptable.
Why are there chains on the walls? 🤔
@@anungikwe7258 exactly as it would be.
The scariest of all my friend!
Good to see more professors who aren't afraid to speak up.
so weird to read this in 2017....
The Virtuous Life and they really need our support and foresight. They are in the belly of the beast and the weak here are easily consumed.
wake up...
they're making TV shows about it (microphones, lightings, editing....)
it couldn't go better for them.
But how much wait will their speech carry with the overbloated admins of Universities (financed by easy government approved student loans) power to sanction or allocate resources to them?
The Emperor has no clothes.
These three people are high quality, sensitive, intelligent, compassionate, entities. They are a credit and a valuable gift to the Human race. :-) :-)
Three men, aren´t they? Why did you avoid this word?
Which is precisely why the left will NEVER allow them to teach.
I’d organized a weekly philosophy group for seven years. We were never political, reading Plato and the classics. Enter: the radical post modernist mean kids. I’ve hardly seen such cruelty in my life - the philosophy group was torn apart. I see exactly what Jordan is talking about
Philosophy to the left is like ripping the clothes off a girl in public.
Brian Androw my current level of understanding is that postmodernist ideas are most destructive for conservative ideas of value and classic (especially Ancient Greek) Philosophy laden with proclamations of value and the good (or moral) life.
That in and of itself is already something to be concerned about I find, but there indeed seems to be a strange alliance between this denial/deconstruction of grand narratives with the use of critical theory, which is particularly useful as a tool with which to hack at liberal societies. It’s here where things really get out of kilter in my view.
Would you agree with this (admittedly overly condensed) representation?
Can you tell us a little bit more about how it happened?
Would you be willing to make a video about this?
Brian A I attended philosophy night classes 22yrs ago have to say was intellectually engaging and most civil however average age was 50.Reflecting on your experience I'm disappointed though not surprised if what I read in utube comments section is any indication. I wish I didnt feel the need to look however it helps me look at my own understanding and many times I've gained a new perspective.Maybe this digital medium is too much too soon, a sea of opinions wash aside experience and civility.
I am following along with great interest about this and appreciate Peterson's analysis in this and other videos. VERY high quality Jordan, you are killing it with all your youtube content and are really the FUTURE of education!
true: But Jordan's thinking is not a closure: Some ideas he presents need further contextualising. They are not fully developed for education (in schools) as this is not his agenda. But any research in education that ignores his thinking belongs to middle ages
Exactly. That is why he really is the future of education: the contextualizing is happening with a live and interactive audience of people who agree and disagree with his ideas. It is easy to get stale in the "safe" and insulated environment of the university and it's really where ideas go to die nowadays. The other professor said he has no problem with people taping his lectures cause he's not saying anything he wouldn't say in public. Right on about that.
Ania Lian do u have any ideas for further contextualizing?
Genuine question- what do you mean by 'contextualising ' ?
$50k a month should equal better content than recorded lectures lol
What's done in the Dark will be brought to the Light
Joshualbatross Sooner or Later God Will Cut You Down? Whose version? Tom Jones?
I'm partial to Johnny Cash's rendition, it's a bit darker.
Joshualbatross I guess the proper title is Run on For a Long Time
1:18:10 Race Class & Gender anthology: "Objectivity, as found through rational thought, is a western and masculine concept that we will challenge throughout this text."
When it says they will review policies and procedures to make sure this will never happen again they're talking about banning recordings during SJW inquisitions LOL
B4, I would not b able to listen to something this long. Seeing how civil, rational, logical, honest and practical these individuals r makes me hunger for more talks with level headed thinking. Really enjoy these talks.
Brilliant. Three brilliant men. Thank you. I don't know what else to say. I'm in the U.K. We are already lost.
I am truly jealous of Lindsay Shepherd. I was bullied by self-ascribed justice warriors and caved, whereas this courageous woman rose to the occasion in the greatest fashion.
don't be jealous. be inspired to act for truth next time.
I'm sure you're not alone. I suspect a lot of people have face similar situations and caved. Learn from it and don't be too hard on yourself.
Me too, man, me too.
Remember, she was mentally prepared for it. That's the key. You have to make sure you have a battle plan with contingency plans ready. I'm sure you will next time.
Speak up now about whats going on, do it in your own sphere of influence.
JBP. A real, ACTUAL, honest-to-god hero. Ive never really felt that way about anyone else before. (sorry to my departed dad..) I'm trying to think of a another person in my 47 years that i admired so much for their knowledge, intellect, communication, leadership and bravery. There are those that I have held in reasonable regard - but nothing like the awe and respect I have for you. Thank god for you. And thank god for your many followers and that hear you speak, and understand the clear thruths you present. Starting to sound a bit political movementy/culty/obsessive now....? Ok forget about all that. How about i just really admire you and the work you have been doing. Cheers & love to all.
clickaccept - agreed. Thanks for honsety and advice.
I agree entirely. Am I deluded in thinking JP is starting to look like Obama - of all people?
I had this very conversation with my 3, 20 something children at supper this last week. They focused and repeated the post-modernist diatribe about trans rights, until I said that it had nothing at all to do with this topic (it being only the topic of the month) and everything to do with the ideology behind it. Then the conversation shifted to, 'what is Marxism', 'what does Marxism believe', 'what is their goal here', and we could actually get to the root of the problem and why I felt compelled to have this conversation with them. Until that point, they merely regurgitated all the things that they had been force fed to believe was a natural progression toward a more just society. They surmised that this change in our society was akin to the civil rights era of the 1960's and 1970's. I told them it was far more insidious, as most of us would reject the underlying ideology, if we were made aware of it, and this is why I braved the onslaught to make them aware that it was indeed happening. I stayed at home to raise 3 very bright, inquisitive, and balanced kids, who can communicate very well and think critically, and still the influence of the public school system has not been a good one. It's something I must continually work to overcome. It's ironic to me that the one child who didn't go to university, was the one to follow Jordan Peterson because of his videos online. Thank you, Jordan, for sticking your neck out and standing up for what you know is right, in this time of madness. It's good to hear a voice of reason amongst the nonsense that makes up such a large part of our societal discourse today.
The future looks dire.
flightless butterfly interesting and inspiring.
Omg. I had the same experience with my own children. My 24 yr old university graduate daughter spews that same crap while my non academic 17 year old son sees it as complete nonsense.
Young adults minds have been poisoned with the Marxist doctrines, with most of them not even knowing the root behind their own thoughts, and beliefs. I hope your talk opened their minds and eyes to how they've been, for lack of a more kind term, brainwashed. They sound like they're more open to the truth than most due to their upbringing, but people don't like to have their core briefs challenged. Fingers crossed, because if kids like yours can't accept it then we're doomed. Keep leading them in the right direction ✌️😎
I made sure my kids knew to question everyone before they went to university and that people who will not debate are the ones with no clothes. For example, take something awful like a holocaust denier, you can counter such with historical records, etc. These people don't want to debate. My children and I don't care if you want a sex change or what gender (based on customs of the society in which we live) you want to be but a lot of their positions in the trans movement could be argued with critical thinking are 1) anti women, 2) anti teenage women especially, 3) anti-gay, etc. If you tried to raise these issues at these universities, I imagine their heads would explode and since the left historically represents these groups I mentioned, it has to be purely about power and the kids should question this university establishment.
That moment when you're not even a full minute into the video, and it's such quality that you have to stop and switch over to your TV to watch it
Thank God Peterson is finally getting some other University professors to speak out with him. There may be hope yet!
Peterson for President
Prime Minister but definately
I don't understand why not more professors have come out to discuss the current problems in academia and collegue campuses and the stifling of freedom of speech that directly affect them and affect student's education so negativily.
Do these guys still have jobs?
yeeeeesss! It is terrifying that these will be the people who are indoctrinating America! We must speak out against this.
You’re getting significantly better at running interviews Jordan. I can see you actively curtailing your proclivity to make longwinded (very intelligent) statements, that in the past have derailed the central thrust of the conversation. Even the great among us have room to improve, apparently.
It is making for a very good interview platform. Thank you for making this for us.
You're not getting significantly better at not kissing his ass, on the other hand.
Etienne-Emile Antikatastaseis That wasn't very Christmassy
We obviously love listening to JP speak or we wouldn't be subbed, but at the same time he really does need to work at not dominating a conversation when he's the interviewer. Really hurts the fluidity of the dialogue. Even makes me feel a bit awkward as a viewer somehow. Almost like I feel for the interviewees who can't get a word in edgewise.
Etienne-Emile Antikatastaseis
Kissing Jordans ass should never be a shameful experience! :)
It was not in the spirit of a dead Jewish guy on a stick, but it was funny.
Those professors are amazing, I wish I could attend their classes.
This is the high level I hold all professors at.
Same. Motherfucking standards, ya know? They matter.
@@AngelRaivan8579-xh4fr Oxbridge are the only universities that don't chip their professors, because they don't need it.
My Daughter will be looking at Universities 1 year from now. I went to Waterloo down the street, and Laurier would have been on the list of possible schools she would have considered. In fact, I toured Laurier with my son 2 years ago when he was looking at UIniversities. I can promise: there is NO WAY she will be even looking at Laurier following this outrageous situation. I am sure other parents and students would share my view.
Yeah, but Laurier just got exposed, its not like its the only place it might have happened
Yes like the comment above me said it can happen these days anywhere. Laurier seems to be reassuring in that professors like these ones were there and helped Lindsay out in this situation instead of just ignoring what is happening or join against her
PIX BMS I didn't know that pirates are into computer programming. Lol. Just joking because of your photo there. I think you've chosen wisely... The programming, that is, not the piracy. Lol. Forgive the lame jokes, it's very late at night when everything strikes me as silly. Hope you don't mind my goofy comments. Oh, I wanted to say my daughter graduated from a very liberal, very expensive college in NYC and even that didn't guarantee any great career. Then, years later, at age 40, she became a registered nurse after another 4 yrs of study at a state university. Not everyone has her energy and perseverance and ability to adapt to whatever comes their way. One of my son's majored in art. He delivers pizza, and says he should have studied a specific occupation ( like you did). The other son hardly went to high school and is a tattoo artist and his work and skill is admired, but it's a variable type of occupation. My eldest son hitchhiked out west after high school, became a talented djembe drummer, lived in and hiked the Gila Mountains for years, had many friends, assisted at the birth of his child at the Gila River, he was loved by many people of diverse ages and social status. Unfortunately he was shot and killed 7 yrs ago, an unjustified homicide, tragic and unimaginable, brought about by a woman's foolish love of "drama" in her life. And as for myself, I barely got thru life's challenges. It's a tough time for young people to make it these days. I hope you continue to do well. I think you will. Something about your comment inspired me to reply to you.
I think the difference is that Uni of Waterloo is a world renowned intellectual space, and as such the students there are much less likely to be fooled by the PC agenda.
get her into jordans school and class, should stop her from beeing corrupted by ideology
I'm perty sure a big part of the faculty's training is going to be make sure your not being recorded so they don't get caught again
totally, id recommend everyone in university's get those rerecording devices shaped like pens or lighters and always be recording. even if they make it against policy to do so just record everything.
ChristofferEricsater ya you got it rough man from what i hear sweden got it the worst a real liberal hell hole its either you guys or England it's really hard to tell witch one of you guys got hit worst by the far left cultist at this point good luck man and fight the good fight
The University may try and make it a breach of policy but I would suggest as long as it doesn't break the Law any half-way competent lawyer would get it shut down VERY quickly!!!
My guess is they'll say
1) Anytime a meeting like that is held the TAs have to be offered a representative/advocate for their interests, and
2) the TAs have to notify the profs if they intend to record the meeting.
Explain that you will be recording. If they balk, end meeting until your lawyer can be present. Better yet, bring a lawyer & record.
Wow this was probably one of the best videos regarding free speech and everything Jordan has been warning us about for the past year, and a testament to why we should protect freedom of expression at all costs. Also the quality was excellent, I hope Jordan keeps making videos with such good quality.
That's all, i'm gonna go clean my room now.
Faculty does this all the time, in interrogation rooms on campus, They just got *caught* this time..
The Lindsay Shepherd scandal bothered me to read of.
Happened to me. I had the gall to say that biological sex has an effect on brain structure in my psychology course. I was dragged before the dean of the college and threatened with expulsion.
@@gavinriley1636 what happened from there? Do you still teach?
Your facts offend my feelings! Ban facts, and give me a safe space!!
Bullshit on this level happens in all schools at all ages as far as I can tell.
Academics - generally cowards.
These men are the exception, not the rule, but thank God they exist.
On a tech note, all microphones should be mixed and equalised so each speaker has a similar tone and output.
However Dr Peterson, technically your videos have improved incredibly, intellectually I feel you have improved me quite a bit.
Thank you.
More tech notes :)
I would rather hear them talking over each other in full fidelity (all mics left on) rather than fading them in and out so much. Just fade the mics out to get rid of coughs, water sips, excessive rustling etc ....otherwise leave them on.
This is a civilised conversation, any talking over each other is accidental and only momentary, and can be left in.
Also the constant cuts to JBP listening were a bit weird.
A ukelele in the background would be nice. Played live of course. Or perhaps a lute or an oud.
Cowards lol You spend your whole life working your ass off for a highly competitive position. Who wouldn't avoid making noise? Who are the brave ones? Are you brave if you risk yourself when you have barely anything to lose? How many CEOs that would be negatively affected by speaking out speak out? It's almost as if almost everyone is a coward but you can only tell about their true identity if they're an academic or a CEO, etc.
PedroTricking perhaps you are very conflict averse, let's say. Hope it will save your sorry arse.
I work in academia and will stand with JBP, not with you.
I'm by far more attention averse than I am conflict averse. Being really contrarian also goes against the idea that I'm conflict averse.
What area do you work in in if you don't mind me asking?
Very telling insight that the university saw fit to tell the faculty how to respond to Trump. Also the safe spaces to find comfort. How absurd.
Robinson Mertilus Agreed
Totally agree. Had I been there I would have sent a letter or protest at the very least! I also find it disturbing that even this video promotes the idea that Trump is a bad candidate, based on his supposed discrimination... as far as I know the entire basis for the "Trump is a racist/sexist" argument is founded in a misquotation of a speech he gave one time at a border state about the crime rate among migrants being higher, combined with the blown-out-of-proportion chat with another guy he had about certain women and how they act around rich male/celebrities. I haven't heard any actual evidence other than these things; only a lot of repetition along the same lines that "since everyone believes it, it must be true". Let's not forget that most of the spread of this Trump-hate came from the mainstream media who Trump has quite clearly and definitively called out as "Fake" and made and enemy of! But that gets easily swept under the rug by any and all who have some reason to want a woman or democrat in the office.... which, [if you ask me,] is truly a sad commentary on the level of critical thinking that goes on within most peoples' brains, and is yet another example of the complete and total failure the FREE government-funded PUbLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM in the U.S.A. ....
does anyone really think free = great? No, but the parents see a free school and compare it to paying 20, 30, 40 THOUSAND dollars a year, which is about the same price as they paid for their HOUSE....
Dak Ralter The reason they keep harping on it with Trump is because it had worked in the past (not on him mind you). It worked so well that their skills in defeating opponents atrophied to the point of uselessness. They had the easy kill shot. Racist. Sexist. I win. The problem is, they lost. And now they don't have the skills to win again. This makes them very angry and the try and try again to beat the same drum constantly. It's all they know how to do.
In the words of a great artist; th-cam.com/video/iDpYBT0XyvA/w-d-xo.html
I really wonder if no one of those people, faculty and students as well, can't see that safe spaces are utterly contraproductive and dangerous. How will those young people be able to face _real_ life? And by the way, how are they supposed to _fight_ the problems life will confront them with on their own and with no one coming to the rescue?
Hell, I have lost family members and friends to cancer and I have some very unpleasant memories concerning this. Should I go to my employer and demand that they should remove the cancer patients from my workspace, since they trigger me?
Well, if I could not deal with this, then I should not have become a nurse and work on a cancer ward. And _then_ I read about law students forcing their professors to skip topics like "rape", because some students felt triggered. Sooo, once you are a lawyer, cunt, and have to fight for a rape victim, will you then suggest the court should talk about other crimes instead? Will you refuse to fight for rape victims in general? Oh, _that_ will make the world better for all the rape victims.
I've learned so much and changed my whole perspective bc of this man right here. You're a hero sir
Jason Griffin love you, Jason. ❤️
Jason Griffin keep going. We never how far we can really go.
Lol tell me if I’m right. I think I seen you on Tommy Sotomayor’s channel writing some hilarious comments.
I studied philosophy in high school, but it were history of philosopy.
This is philosophy in action.
Magnificent and amazing!
Outstanding. Thank you very much Dr. Peterson, Dr. Haskell, and Dr. McNally. I especially appreciate Dr. Haskell's statement that we must act true to ourself, "You've gotta look your kids in the eye, eventually. And how are you going to say that you need to stand up for truth if you actually don't stand up for truth?" Thank you for standing forthrightly.
Critical Theory has replaced Critical Thinking.
uPsIdEdOwN More aptly, Critical Theory devolved into post-modernism - devaluing critical thinking. Critical Theory is a much wider & substantive framework for evaluating institutions & teaching critical thinking than was given credit in this video... Not to mention it hasn't had much of a representation in English (as it was developed in German decades before translational efforts).
Diversity of [insert FIXED outside characteristic or sexual orientation/state] has replaced diversity of thought ...
@Progress Holistic Tell me about it ... here in Germany we do not have anything like "freedom of speech" anchored in the mindset of the general public and all the media networks are providing is "pro-government coverage". I am currently writing a letter to a newspaper which had an article from a media studies professor about "how to talk to the right-wing people" ... after we got a small part of them in our parliament after this years election and he only looks at "discussion strategies on how to win that fight" but never at "what did we (lefties) do wrong to create this rise of right-wing?" Self-criticism? Nah ... Oh and he looks at the "rise of the right" as "the problem" when it is actually rather the effect of the cause.
So far I am on page seven of that letter ... and I hope I manage to finish it.
uPsIdEdOwN anyone can be an oppressor and the oppressed at any time. So sad. Wonder how Swedish women feel when walking down the streets now of their own country. The leaders in Sweden are the oppressors and the women the oppressed by ISLAM and their own GOVT
Safe.....unbelievable. We are talking about the leftist Marxism ideology is the oppressor of freedom of speech AND THOUGHT
LOVE the new format.
Production value! :D
Just need to sort out the audio. Need to invest in three radio mics and a quality digital audio recorder. Easy to relay the audio back during the edit. At the moment the audio is cobbled together using the two camera audio tracks listening to it. The other guy on the couch was well in the background. Irritating...
Toffy B look at their jackets, they are all wearing lavalier mics
Yes I know, but it's the arrangement to the audio tracks into the recording devices (cobbled) which makes the present arrangement impractical. You will hear that in the edits. Individuals out of shot are 'off mic'. And yes, I had over 30 years broadcast experience in documentaries... However, loving the debate.
Toffy B so you basically just want them to have separate recorders for each lav?
Didn't know you guys had young Obi-Wan Kenobi on your side, that makes me feel better about our chances in this fight
May the Force be with you
They have the moral high ground
Adam Frisk Comment of the Year material
Even moreso considering they have Simon Gruber by their side
Kermit meets Superman (Reeve) and a young Obi-Wan
White Void OMG! That is so TRUE! He could be ObiWan's Brother!!!
I'm so glad that Lindsay is getting some support and that I have a new Jordan Peterson chat to watch as an extra Christmas present.
I'm also grateful for the honing of my mind. I've never felt adept at arguing, roughly speaking. Whether it be standing up for myself, or cognitive debate. Now I have structure of what subjects I might need to know in and out for my political beliefs and how important it is to know the other side even more carefully.
Happy New year Drs. and viewers!
People can't comprehend the magnitude of what is happening
sno0p3r yeah because they think it's just a bunch of college kids overeating, but the question they should ask is what happens in the next 5 to 10 years when those same kids are in positions of power? in every level of society, when you ask that question you understand it's going to be up to all of us to fight this at whatever level we can, because if we don't check this behavior and way of thinking it's going to lead to chaos.
Unfortunately, I think you're right, both of you.
yeah i cant really talk about this with anyone. even my more conservative friend. people just glaze over and think you are crazy.
sno0p3r
just try to grasp this concept, just transpose the Lindsay event into family court.
now try to grasp what is going on.
thank you, for thinking
sno0p3r Seems like war is coming...the Left has doubled down and siezed power. Their purpose for mass migration in the EU is simple. Migrants vote Left, Citizens vote right.
Their primary goal with all of this is taking control, and if the Right waits until it is too late...well, Venezuela, Cuba, Soviet Russia, Argentina and on and on...
Good job you three, we need more profs like you stepping forward and using their position to voice some reason into the vacuous insanity of the howling left.
The people who need to hear these discussions the most will never hear them.
Maybe you should listen to those close to you who disagree with you, and find out whether they've seriously considered this.
Just because someone disagrees with yo doesn't always mean they're an adherent of "Critical Theory" or any doublespeak. They may just be worth talking to.
And that's part of the definition of what they are to begin with.
A sad truth, but a truth none the less
I feel like I'm sitting down with you guys. Thank you for this rare opportunity to hear from you guys all at once on this discussion. It's not to often we get this kind of a scholarly conference.
From the Clarification statement released by WLU " a later discussion among students about the video was brought to the attention of a staff member".
I can certainly see why the Liberal Arts faculty was alarmed to find students taking ideas from class and discussing them without supervision. They may have even come up with ideas on their own!
I'm writting from Spain. I'm so grateful to have found you thanks to my half spanish half swedish daughter. I'm no longer an orfan intelectual thanks to you and other people you talk with. I believe that the fundamental points you articulate tell the story of western countries intelectual sickness that shows among other manifestations the tendency to claim for free speech, freedom, and free determination in one way, the extreem left one. In my opinnion right and left are no longer accurate definitions. I beleive that free speech must be for everyone to speak, be listened and to motivate honest and civil debates based on facts and well documented and accurate evidences. What we are experiencing lately in Spain with the catalonian challenge is a sample of the post modernism expression in a vicious way. When words and actions are prostituted and when no honest debate is made posible because the discourse is used to produce confusion and mirages. Thanks to people like you there is light and hope in a general atmosphere of mental darkness. Thank you.
I'm from Catalonia. The Catalan Issue has nothing to do with Postmodernism. The Spanish state is rotten with corruption and still hangover from 40 years of dictatorship. Catalonia is also rotten with corruption. But the Spanish state is not being democratic with Catalonia and that's THAT. They should have let us decide in the first place, but they fucked up and proved who they really are -- and thanks to their stupidity, pride and diplomatic clumsiness, we find us now in a very ugly situation. I was never an independentist, but since the police broke into my highschool on the election day and beat up a friend of mine, I have sympathy for the separatists. I don't want to stay in a country who doesn't allow me to decide if I want to stay or not -- That's called kidnapping or hijacking.
Would you be with a man who doesn't allow you to decide if you want to be with him or not? Exactly ;)
Lola Lucia not all is as dark or lost as it seems Lola. There are many of us who are still insisting on speaking for themselves, with nuance and fearlessness. And one of us can sweep aside thousands of these thoughtless parrots by simply going beyond the superficial accusations and assumptions. It's soon to be clobbering time for common sense and the kindness that comes with it. Keep up the Good fight! And don't be so sure about the Catalan motivations ...listen to that person who responded. It might be the right time in history for countries to get smaller and for small people groups around the world to have more self-determination. I hope and pray that you and those who wish for Catalan independence can have civilized and thorough discussions.
Lola Lucia I am from Costa Rican. Many blessings, and Spain is much part as my heritage as the native Americans. I appreciate your comment.
Thank you. I'm also native and raised french, also lived in Sweden too. So I can spanish, catalan, swedish, french and english. This give me a panomaric capacity to grabe a big picture. Catalonian separatist like to present themselves as victims but they are supremacist among other dangerous things. I live in catalonia and have got first hand on the issue.
Guillem Ramos Well, Catalonia is a strong economic region. As with everything else, money and taxes has a lot to do with it. Europe does not need any new borders. I bet there is corruption in the autonomous government.
This reminds me of that verse ''Woe unto them that call good evil, and evil good, that put light for darkness, and darkness for light, that put sweetness for bitter, and bitter for sweet'' ~ lsaiah 5:2O Everything's inverted!!
When I was studying history in what you would call high school, about 12/13 years ago, I asked my teacher if it would be okay for me to download Triumph of the Will, which as all historians should know is *actual Nazi propaganda*, and show it to the class, since at the time we were studying World War II.
I did so, we watched part of it (due to class time), talked about it and then...went on with the rest of our lives.
No-one complained. No-one made a fuss about it. No-one talked about it outside of the classroom. It was seen by literally everybody that it was a perfectly logical thing to do. I honestly can't remember if I even mentioned it to my mother. If I had, she wouldn't have said anything.
"Hey ma, watched a Nazi video in history class. Real interesting how well it was put together, how effective it was at gathering support".
"That's nice"
is about how it would have gone, if I ever did tell her about it.
What has changed in just over 10 years that I and my fellow students can watch *actual Nazi propaganda* in class * all of us teenagers*, with no complaints, with the teacher not even blinking at the suggestion...to now, where showing a debate featuring *Jordan Peterson* who even if one believes all the horrible things said about him has not actually done anything like Hitler (i.e. no genocides) to *ADULTS* is verboten?
Gotta be honest here - I wrote this comment before hearing that point in the video where Peterson says he too shows Triumph of the Will in his classes.
Great minds think alike!
He said that this video will be watched by 150,000 people. It already has 300,000 views and will get even more. It’s a good thing that more people are learning and watching useful content.
Make that 660k
@@someeuropeanguy7378
680K
That's roughly 5K a month.
It would be interesting to see how that is affecting their profit.
I come back here every so often to re-watch this, so I'll make a point of keeping track of the watch count.
Over 690,000 as I saw it today
690K.
That's 10K in three weeks.
That's an average of around 3.3K a week over the last 3 weeks.
This video was uploaded in Nov 2017, roughly 19 months ago.
The rolling average is 690K / 19 = 36315 views a month on average.
WLU must be LOVING all the publicity.
702k 😉
I can see my Patreon dollars going to good use! Fantastic production value, great format! Thank you Dr Peterson!
"The university is taking concrete steps to take changes to ensure this doesn't happen again." - Metal detectors and frisk searches are implemented as we speak to ensure no more recordings will be made public.
LMAO
Excellent discussion. Thanks to all of you for being voices of reason. And for standing up for freedom of speech.
Standing up for a speaker's freedom to speak to a paying audience on something other then what the audience paid for isn't standing up for freedom of speech.
Next time you pay money to attend a conference and they switch speakers and topics, make sure you remain consistent and recognize those speakers freedom of speech and support those principles by not asking for your money back.
And yes, I am being facetious. I don't expect you to stay silent but to ask for your money back. But this conflation of paid speech with free speech is really getting on my nerves.
If you make a coherent or even somewhat intelligent comment, I will respond in kind.
Okay, I'll try to make it more coherent.
If I enter into a contract with another to hear them speak on a particular subject, the person is bound by a contractual obligation to provide such speech. In other words, that speech was paid for and if the other person didn't provide that speech, the contract has been breached and I suffered a loss in money and time.
If a student paid fees and attended a class where the teacher went off on a tangent, a contract has been breached. It does not matter if the speech was offensive or not offensive, enjoyable or otherwise, what matters is that it was not the speech contracted for.
The other person cannot then claim that any action against them for the breach of contract for paid speech violates their right to free speech. Or that their right to free speech is a defense not to provide a contracted obligation.
That same principle applies when an employer employs an employee to provide a scripted spiel to customers to obtain business. If the employee then goes on to exercise their free speech, they are in breach of the employment contract. Such a breach would not cover what they said in their free time, outside of working hours, but would cover what they said during the time they were supposed to be following a script.
So if the Teaching Assistant went off script during a class they were teaching, they are in breach of the contract. There's no abrogation of the right to free speech because that time was paid for. Hence paid speech is subject to the laws of contract and not protected by any freedom of speech laws.
I hope that made enough sense that you can comment on it.
Show me this contract where it clearly states that speech is to be contained within a confine that prevents people from gaining knowledge outside a narrow scope as you suggested. And I will read through that contract to see if it is truly as you suggest. And if it is, I would suggest that it is more of a method of indoctrination, rather than learning.
Furthermore. What about the other students who want to learn what she taught? Are they not entitled to learn? Are they beholden to you or the preference of others?
Consider applying that argument to any contract, e.g. show me in this contract where it clearly states that the goods supplied is to meet the specifications, that prevents people from gaining benefits outside a narrow scope.
A contract specifies the goods, either in terms of the good itself or in terms of the purpose for which the good is intended. No contract contains a clause that "the goods supplied is to meet the specifications, that prevents people from gaining benefits outside a narrow scope".
If the customer gains additional benefits, that's called "value added". No contract specifies that, however, the value added is in relation to the customer. A complaint of a deviation means that deviation had no value added.
If the other students want to learn what she taught, there would be a class for that. i.e. they would have signed up for some social study class.
Your counter argument can be used to support feminism being included in every other class outside social studies. Who is to make the determination that students are entitled to learn which subject or that they want to learn a subject or that they should not be beholden to the preferences of the students who want to study something else, for example, engineering in an engineering class.
The arguments that are bad remain bad whether a feminist or a libertarian is using them. They don't suddenly become good because the intention of the person using them are good.
I appreciate that you took the time to ask for clarification and to posit a different perspective.I hope I have responded adequately to both. :)
Most interesting statement in here: 80% of papers in humanities and social sciences are never cited even once.
Although I do not know the set of causes that make this happen, one point that seems important to touch upon is that much of academic work in humanities falls under the category of scholarship rather than research. There is no clear line of progression from one paper to another, where one minute finding is incorporated into further research or criticised by other scientists. The nature of the domain of humanities seems to be inherently much fuzzier (which is not a value judgment on my part).
Even if the above is correct and humanities will always get fewer citations than, say, medicine, the ratio of 80% of papers not being cited shows that a lot of work is put into writing things that are of no interest to anyone, ^even^ the academics themselves.
I think this is like the 4th time I've heard Peterson mention it or something close to it. It's not completely new information, not on this channel anyway.
He only said humanities studies, not social sciences. I looked at the article which Jordan cited arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0809/0809.5250.pdf and it seems as though social sciences is quite well.
that is excactcly the problem, I have to write 2 thesis' for communication studies, and that only for my bachelor degree. And theoretically every paper should add something 'new' to the broader scientific field altho you HAVE to base everything on theories and stuff that already exists. It really is an unstable model tbh.
As far as I am concerned, Lindsay is woman of the year 2017
bruh. no.
bruh. yea
John Data she played a video. Got grilled by some sjws and cried a little. Real Woman of the year material. Martyr of the year more like it. I’m just saying.
Lawrenceii First of all. It was an audio tape. Secondly she had the wits to record it. Then she uploaded it without knowing at the time the charge was bogus. She is hardly a hero and no martyr. But definitely woman of the year. And Google victim James Damore is man of the year. Both liberal people crucified by the horrible regressive left and still standing tall.
STUNNING AND BRAVE. truly.
The logic of the 'new thought' doublespeak is exemplified thus: "Intolerance will not be tolerated".
Des Northcott Exceptionalities for the intolerance of free speech, logic and reality.
As if tolerance is somekind of highest possible virtue? Like a narcissist spouse abusing his/her partner, and saying "you are not tolerant!! you are not good enough!! not nice enough!!" You should NOT have to tolerate constant unjust pain and abuse and ridicule.
You make the mistake of thinking this war is new, this is a centuries old attack (mostly from foreign anarchists operating under assumed anglo / germanic names) and later culminated in the invention of terrorism with the dynamiting of train stations and fairs around Europe by Jewish anarchists and later communist minions like the IRA. I suggest reading A Letter Concerning Toleration by John Locke written in 1689 that is literally the OG "We should not tolerate the intolerant." screed. This is a slow boil and we've stepped into the last days of it when the long march is complete.
Nah, it's really a question of WHAT and WHO is "tolerated" or not. They tolerate their own intolerance with great tolerance. It's YOUR intolerance of whatever they want that cannot be tolerated. It's really just empty words to give the false impression of having principles where there are none.
Most of these words and trends today are rackets for something else. They make their claims in large enough generalized terms, then use them for selective targeting. When you sort them out, they're just fronts for something that would be universally condemned under it's truthful name. They're used to take advantage of, or suppress the voice of some other group, race or class, and to promote policies that penalize others for the advantage of the racketeers. Another way to legalize crime for the "oppressed" group.
I really liked this panel, discussing current events like this should become a semi-regular occurrence. Could be called "Profs Talk with Jordan Patterson", I can see it catching on.
I'd watch two hours of this weekly
JThorp the universities should all be shown this video.
I used to live with Dr. McNally's son in university, it's nice to see him share his thoughts here because I know these issues have been on his mind for many years.
I'm so grateful to the SJWs because I had no idea who Jordan Peterson was before them and now I find his content the most useful I've found on TH-cam. Thank you.
moral of this story for students? be vigilant. ALWAYS record your meetings done behind closed doors!
You just know that the people who would benefit most from hearing this won't be able to see past three white males.
I was scanning the comments for one like this. If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have.
why, just include someone like BRIGITTE Gabrielle or Ayaan Hirsi Ali, then gone with the fucking identity politics, and the result will be the exact same. This is about diversity of thought, NOT "diversity" of race or gender.
+4browsing It gets stranger, because if they don't like what you say, they'll just call you jewish anyway and put brackets around your name.
“That’s a good point but have you ever considered that you’re a white male?”
I had that thought as well, but we can hope they listen more than they look.
19:39 - THANK YOU!!!!! I've been waiting for someone to talk about the difference between Critical Theory and Critical Thinking, which sound similar, but are completely opposed!
I once had to explain to one of my PhD professors that critical thinking skills did not mean that it was critically important that we all think exactly the way she had told us to.
To clarify what Dr. McNally said, the academics behind critical theory were not actually German, but Jews living in Germany. The rest is accurate.
Critical Theory has some application in understanding totalitarian regimes, but the idea of applying it to everything, is equivalent of a doctor treating every disease with cough syrup. An induction fallacy of a cataclysmic scale.
Not everyone of these Germans were Jews, though connections to B'nai B'rith were definitely there. However, to real fruition it was brought by some of these people in the USA. People like Adorno and Horkheimer. The Rockefeller Foundation gave its share for their research projects too.
More like this! This type of content along with the lectures certainly repays the patreon contributions. I really like these guys as well. I love your sit down interviews with sensible and articulate people.
seeing rational, articulate people is such a rarity these days..
1:55 "I got a PhD, I'm able to reach my own conclusions....". I have a shovel and am a ditch digger, have tenure in the ditch, and I also can come to a conclusion on my own. I agree, I don't need people to tell me what is in my own best interest.
Exactly. Unless you voluntarily want help from specialists in different fields (you can learn most things on your own) then no free thinking human needs anyone to form their opinions.
Something tells me that getting your PhD involves a little more critical thinking than ditch digging
Just started watching and this format is brillant. I'm now meeting more and more people who have heard of JBP. He's just so very stoic, but also very highly functionally conscious.
I can't tell if this is a dumb comment, or a parody of dumb comments. If the latter, very well done.
This is so great, thanks for your dissection of this, it really bothered me to hear about this occurrence with Lindsay Shepherd and to have these gentlemen use their large brains to help clarify everything was very wonderful.
Lindsey Shepherd did nothing wrong.
It's okay to be Lindsey Shepherd.
Jeff Holiday did nothing wrong.
I wouldn't even tell Lindsey Shepherd she did anything wrong.
Because she didn't.
She's a hero.
Not only did she do nothing wrong, she did most everything right.
God be with you allways Dr. Peterson
The Force be with you!
Even if there was a complaint,
that still doesn't justify the witch-hunt.
So really, that letter was a "sorry, not sorry". It asserted the wrongness of the meeting with Shepherd, but ended with "so what?" Nothing has changed.
Alvaro Neto we should have seen it coming that the canadains, masters of saying sorry, would find a way to weaponize it. Was only a matter of time :p
This conversation warms my heart!
The opposite of "free speech" is not "hate speech", like leftists would claim it to be. It's censorship!
My deep appreciation for your continued exploration and efforts, Dr.Peterson, to preserve and uphold the values it's taken thousands of years of evolution for humans to attain! 🙏
Far leftists don't seem to think that hate speech is the opposite of free speech. On contrary they seem to think that this is an equivalent and this is why people are worried about free speech because all they want to do is hate speech
Unless you are inciting violence, your speech should be protected, no matter how hateful. That you can suffer legal repercussion for OFFENSE is a very very dangerous line of thinking that leads to fascism.
its such a nebulous term, its hard and pointless to give ti an exact equivalent or opposite.
You might want to look up the case of Mark Meechan, a comedian in Scotland. Textbook case of exactly what you are talking about. He was very controversial, but they convicted him for offending people, after determining that the context of his joke is irrelevant. Enjoy the fascism.
So they do not learn about any terrorists, nazis, stalin, etc. stuffs in University anymore? Like I am very Offended by censure, it hurt my heart and I wonder where I can protect to make my pain heard and get a safe place for me too?
On triggering students: excessive stress from homework and studying can trigger students, but we don’t see faculty bending over backyards to appease that, now do we?
Not until that becomes PC. Then they will stop giving students work at all, because they're afraid.
You say this as if grievance studies was a rigorous academic discipline, that actually required effort to develop.
professors having power over students is unacceptable. students should grade themselves
@@GG-bi8tb I really hope that's sarcasm
I see what you're saying but other people might think you're trying to make homework go away. The universities might even consider it if they read this lol.
Holy crap, I cant believe I actually listen to this stuff. Worst of all, I ENJOY it. Dammit, Professor, you turned me into a grown-up!!
Phantasma3 hey man happens to the best of us.
Thinking?! Maturity?!! AAAARRGUH!! :)
LOL I know, I'm playing league of legends and this is on my 2nd monitor. I'm like, "wtf, why can't i take this off my screen?"
WoW on my main screen, EU LClownfiestaS on the other, this as background audio for both. It can always get worse.
clean your room!
I appreciate your work so much sir and also the work of your esteemed guests.
Wow! I love you guys!
There seems to be hope for the world. Keep up what you do, please!
(I'm 52 and I watch from Switzerland)
Brige is there this type of pc in Switzerland.
Gruess :)
American, here. Very informative, still relevant 2 years later in the US. Dr Peterson, you are one very brave, level headed heck of a man. Thank you.
All of this is truly terrifying as an American, because I see the beginnings of this criminalization of thought on university campuses here.
This kind of stuff started in the USA and has now infected Canada, not the other way around. US universities are already SJW-ized for the most part. Not much difference between threatening legal action and threats, harassment, violence and psycho terror against wrong-thinkers like it's happening at US unis if it has the same effect.
Damien Blake Thanks I didn't know this it's about time the powers that be put their foot down and stopped this madness! These students that's are wrapped up in cotton wool and have never been in the real world a day in their lives need to get out their safe spaces and grow some balls or at least a thicker skin! A year or two ago when American coloured students where asking for safe space segregation spaces I could not believe it !! After all the great work done by people like MLK these SJW morons are wanting to go back to segregation!!! These black students are from well off families and have never faced real racism or hardship in their lives ! And they have the nerve to try and talk for all black people some of which have very real problems!
They just can’t speak bad about Islam in London..
This format, though. I like.
that aesthetic tho
It looks very much like how I imagine professors chatting at a private weekend gathering at one of their homes.
Still waiting for Proffesor Peterson and Miss Shepard to have a good sit down chat. However it happens, it would be awesome internet fodder.
The new four horse men...?
A platform to counter the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, perhaps?
Q U A L I T Y. I N C R E A S E S
transcending all possible hierarchies.
A S C E N D E D
Clean rooms I N T E N S I F Y
S O R T I N G I N C R E A S E S
and yes, i got the self authoring suite. AND DAMN ITS HARD TO FINISH T HAT THING D:
This was actually a very interesting discussion. I am happy I spent 2 hours on this.
1:12:20 "80% of humanities papers are not even cited once". This is indeed a serious observation. It's called the "uncitedness rate" of papers, and it depends on the discipline. According to a 2014 LSE blog article "Are 90% of academic papers really never cited? " by Dahlia Remler, it is 12% for medicine, 27% for natural sciences, 32% for social sciences and 82% for humanities. She attribute this partly to books rather than articles as the preferred medium of publication in the humanities, as well as the window (look back time) for citations, which in humanities is longer. Some comments note that perhaps viewing rates for on-line articles should be considered, in addition to citations, in considering the impact of publications. Others question whether search-engine generated article citation indices are meaningful measures of the impact of research.
1:18:10 "Race, Class, and Gender ... page14 ... Objectivity, as found through rational thought, is a western and masculine concept that we will challenge throughout this text." Wow. The discussion which follows is fascinating. And horrifying.
"I just can't understand how people on the far left can rationalize that behavior."
Here's the deal: the people on the far left do not share your (I'm assuming fundamental precept) that actions define the moral virtue of an individual. In all likelihood, they've dispensed with the entire idea.
Under the alternative precepts of social justice, what determines morality is that you believe in the collective goal. That frees you from moral judgement for any individual action. The most eye-watering hateful behavior I've ever seen has been directed at "protected minorities" that happen to speak out against the party line...and there is no contest to that vitriol unless you happen upon a violent divorce.
It’s true lol I was called a race traitor the other day because I refused to listen to some black lives matter member on a train
Ya, this parent is concerned. My dollars will speak for my family. This was a very helpful discussion in helping me understand what is going on in Ontario and in Canada. The problems I see developing remind me of the show Super Nanny where the children are taking over control of the household. There appears to be a great lack of parental leadership with measured and appropriate discipline. Before the youth can get educated the parents need schooling first.
Being away from Canada for years, I can't imagine how it became...... Thanks 🌹 Dr. Peterson!
Hi Mr Peterson. Im the same vintage as you and have been intellectually squabling with academics online on this very subject since Netscape and Alta Vista were a thing. Its fantastic the mainstream are finally being made aware of the pernicious and damaging nature of Post Modernist and Critical Theory driven thinking in universities.
I sincerely hope you continue to fight the good fight, sir. In my view it is the biggest intellectual battle of the 21st century. Parents and the wider community need to become aware how the next generation are being psychycologically manipulated. Without putting too finer point on it, Western civilisation is at stake.
Internet vloggers and 'shitlords' can only achieve so much. It is people with academic standing such as you who will drive the real change.
Spiro Ketal yikes! Im a pacifist.
They worry about the mental well-being of liberal students, but what about the mental well-being of conservative students? They are continually being attacked. BTW, I'm a moderate.
being a foreign expat i think your "liberals" are crazy!! absolutely lost touch with the world. they have been gravely indoctrinated and failed to think.
As an artist i was rejected by the conservative community i grew up in. i could not wait to get into an art college and be among fellow "oddballs". It was very liberal, fun, creative , experimental & i dont regret it. I was finally able to be who i really was.
What i DO regret is that, as a pack, we turned around and did to the few conservative students what had been done to us: we stereotyped them, ridiculed and shunned them. We made no attempt to even get to know them much less exchange ideas. Group think & peer pressure is a powerful thing. I had to live alot of years before i realized what we had done.
Then you should understand what individualists in a collectivist environment are going through, and support freedom of expression for all people.
Thank you for saying that. I didn't realize how much I myself had in common with people until I started really looking at this issue. I had changed my name and still some people in my life refuse to acknowledge it. It is a representation of a life I no longer identify with and it does hurt me to have to keep seeing/hearing it. So I can (in a way) understand the issue transgenders have that just wants people to acknowledge their own identity shift. But I am not offended that they still use it as that WAS something that is a part of my identity too and to deny it existed is equally wrong. It's just as much a part of me as anything happening to me today.
Not only that I am a Christian and every single day I see things that offend me. But I understand that not everyone sees the world as I do and I absolutely can NOT expect everyone to look at all issues with the same view I do. So I just look past it and am pleasantly surprised when someone does share a view with me.
I think this is something we will need to go through - this pendulum swing in the opposite direction when it comes to freedom of speech and expression. It has been my opinion for a while now that their voices HAD been silenced in favor of a more "conservative" view. They have experienced violence and hate speech. That reality should only make them more sensitive to doing it to others. But perhaps they feel it justified to do it in return to all those people that they feel oppressed them.
And that is scary to me because how many horrible things were done in the past with the justification of "Well they deserved it." The thing that is missed though is that many people they are wringing payment from for those past sins weren't the ones that created the situations they are protesting against and would probably support them if they weren't so extreme.
no, you're loosers tearing down hard working students.
This is a great video. Great discussion. Dr. Peterson. I can only speak for myself but I think more content in a format like this would be fantastic. Here's hoping this becomes a semi-regular occurrence.
If you shut down one side of a debate then its no longer debate.
Clean your room
With sounds of sorting.
Rescue father, rise
Be dangerous.
Read the Gulag
Do the wrongthink.
Rescue father, rise
Be dangerous.
Intellectually
Stay humble
All your foes
Think they are
Virtous.
Talk to them
And don't assault them
With the bike lock
Like profesor Pez.
RubberKidney - Beautiful!
N45441 Thank you :)
Thanks for the reminder!
Was this meant to be read to the tune of Deck the Halls or was that just me?
Roughly speaking
Dr. Peterson, this video was filmed in the interlaced format, it needs to be de-interlaced or else fast moving objects will leave behind "shadows" .
You might be able to view the original clips ok on video players because the player de-interlaces the video in real time as it is being played. But TH-cam only takes videos in the progressive format, and interlaced video will be treated as if it was progressive, causing "shadows" to appear. To resolve this, you should de-interlace original video before putting it into video editing software.
MVP right there
Make sure you tell him this when he goes live.
Was about to mention this as well, however less expertly. I think it's only the interviewee camera, though.
Any tips for sorting out the audio issues when switching video feed / mic inputs? Eg, when cam on guests and JP speaks, it is picked up as low volume, low quality background. Just curious, and this content only needs a few tweeks to be broadcast quality it seems to me.
Great response, hope he sees this, i think his son uploads takes care of the technology and upload part of things.
The reason the fact-finding report will not be released is, the university administration found out that the faculty who initiated this controversy LIED to, and about, Ms. Shepherd.
I don't see that. People are basing that on the phrase in the report that says there weren't offcial complaints or concerns about maters violating their code. That is like saying we didn't get a complaint about excess noise that quoted the By-law that was specifically violated, therefore nobody complained.
It may be the case that nobody complained, but that sentence is extremely artful, I don't see why they emphasize "official" and Laurier rules, unless they were dodging.
In the inquisition they clearly say that there were complaints. It is also mentioned in more of this video, if you bothered to watch the whole thing. Therefore it was a lie that there was a complaint that justified the meeting in the first place.
@@keegs1163 And the University actually admitted the meeting should not have happened, as this video re-iterates early on.
I think in this circumstance, the statement that there was a complaint when there wasn't one, should be treated like academic fraud.
I can not believe what's happening in Canada! I am a german and this reminds me of methods of the Stasi (Staatssicherheit) in former East-Germany (the German Democratic Republic). It is terrible and now i understand, why many americans want to have a gun. I never thought that a modern democracy could turn into in a dictatur. Now i am willing to believe that it is possible!! Absolutly crazy! Thanks for this video about an open minded discussion1
Michael S. You are correct in your assessment, we are about to turn into a North American DDR. It's unbelievable to see this happening to our country. You should see to what level this has truly infiltrated our education system! They are going after the young kids now. Democracy is a joke at this point.
Damn i feel like jordans eyes can see into the very soul. like he sees every sin i have even done, every mistake, every lie. HE KNOWS ! HE KNOWS EVERYTHING SECRET I AM HIDING ! HE KNOWS ME BETTER THEN MYSELF !
But he understands, like a mercifull father that i had never had he understands and forgives. Thank you jordan.
LordOfTheObvious You're a bit confused. Try God instead.
LordOfTheObvious sus
We should be so thankful for these men and this kind of freedom of expression.
i can't understand how someone can see and hear Dr. JBP and conclude anything negative about him ...that's just insane !!!!
I believe it's a symptom of a serious underlying corruption or deformation.
The guest Profs are a good sign. They represent, to varying degrees, those who generally don't pay attention to these issues now realizing how dangerous they are.
It might the first 2-hours long interview I've watched in my life. The ironical part is that I'm also from a different part of the world and an incredibly poor country. However, during the whole video I was just like Dr. William on the left, laughing amusingly at the ridiculousness of this whole situation. It just brings so many emotions. Also, I should say that this was a really nice discussion, very polite and reserved as if the other side was in the room listening. And yes, all three men are really good looking and articulate. It's a pity I didn't have such professors in university.
P.S. Some people accused Peterson of not understanding postmodernism and marxism based on the assumption that he mixes unmixable. Luckily, it was addressed in this video.
I wanna go on a tour of Wilfrid Laurier U's campus. I heard the gravestone of Freedom of Speech is located somewhere in there. I'd like to pay my respects.
Ed Loki press f to pay your respects
Don't even bother, it was removed. Something about the epitaph being offensive.
I know this is an older video. But god i absolutely love listening to Jordan openly think and analyze and articulate his stance and reasoning.
His communication skills and ability to think for himself in pressure cooker situations in interviews and talking to masses its incredible. Frankly im jealous of his skill and intellect.
I thought 2 hours might be too long but this was gripping stuff that had me enthralled. Support from over here in the UK where I've been following this since the UOT debate/debacle.
Here's another guy who does some really good videos on the whole L Shepherd thing - Benjamin A Boyce
I am glad and sad about this kind of discussion. Glad, that there are people who put themselves out there to defend basic necessary principles of a functioning society. Sad, that this discussion is even necessary.
I caught a snippet of this elsewhere on youtube. You guys have hooked me into a TWO HOUR interview.
Is there such places on campuses
called "Free Speech Safe Space" yet?
no because free speech is for alt right authoritarian fascists apparently
I went to the University of Missouri and we have one actually-it’s in a courtyard we call it ‘Speaker’s Circle’
Ah ha. An inversion.
"Danger Spaces".
Thanks for doing this Dr. Peterson, thank you from Costa Rica!
I argued against Critical Theory for my entire undergrad. I'm amazed now that I was able to graduate with distinction from a media studies program in Ontario.
That's really sad, I'm glad you got out of that school of thought.
I think that you've misunderstood his statement. He argued *against* critical theory.
Apparently all that patreon money went into this beautiful camera work and editing. :)
Gabriel Keogler I was going to comment the same thing. I never had any great fear that the money was being wasted. In the next 6 months I believe we will see many more advances in his work.
Guy Chet agreed I was just making a pleasant observation and a slightly underhanded comment to the people who says he's missappropriating
My granny crotched Jordan's throw, good to see the candles I donated put to good use.
Now if they can just fix the audio!
Justin Saephan Yeah, someone needs to turn on the lights in there.
I know this was produced a long time ago but I want to thank these 3 professors for working hard to keep sanity live and well. I have seen current quotes on Twitter that lets me know that you are still fighting the good fight. I support you in your endeavors. I hope you still look at the comments
Peterson..... !!!! One day soon you will have 1 million subscribers. Wow.
No wonder. He gets subs from everyone around the Western world. Not only Canada and USA but whole Europe and probably Australia too.
Subscribers in Denmark as well.
Ill tell you something, I'm three years into my undergrad in Molecular Biology, and there is factually incorrect political correctness that has started to seep into the courses. A quick example, when doing a statistical analysis of classes chromosomes the instructor asked for us to rise our hands to the gender we IDENTIFIED with. Its minor, and much less pressing then issues such as Lindsay Shepherd, but it is slowly starting to integrate itself.
"This video will probably be seen by 150,000 people."
I wish it would be seen by 7 bil people.
Deeeerrrrrp At about 390,000 views now...
About 3 bil people don't have access to the internet let alone clean drinking water :( .
It's at about 416,000 now!
What good would that do? At least 6.9 billion of them wouldn't understand it, and another 0.5 billion of them are positively opposed to everything Jordan Peterson says. I fear that we are doomed.
@ dieflab
hyperbole
[hahy-pur-buh-lee]
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”.
Finally, I've found a video where Mr. Peterson is wrong!
At 1:59:40 he says that this video will probably be watched by 150 thousand people. The count is currently at 795 thousand!
So there!
"Probably" hehe